Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
On 2011-01-26 12:51 PM, Tom Davies wrote: I try but it is not always easy to remember that this list, unlike so many others, is so pro-MicroSoft. 'This list'? I guess I misunderstand, because there is no way you can mean this - or any other libreoffice - list... Or, if you do, then I second the suggestion that you please start acting like an adult here. There is a huge difference between 'pro microsoft' and 'NOT ANTI-microsoft'... -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
On 26 January 2011 14:47, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Perhaps someone could offer to write them another article and ask how much they would pay? A more in-depth article about 1 function or 1 of the packages, such as focusing on Writer or Calc or something. Or perhaps a simple HowTo Guide or something? Regards from Tom :) From: Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com To: marketing@libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 26 January, 2011 14:42:13 Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article Le 2011-01-26 08:26, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Hello, the coverage of LibreOffice 3.3 is generally good, and the span of the coverage (the number of written articles) is excellent. Anyone , any journalist is entitled to his/her own opinion, but this article is somewhat problematic. I usually read these articles and their comments carefully. They are often good sources to understand the outside perception of an OSS project or product. Yet I don't manage to find one point that is not sheer and free criticism of LibreOffice in this one. http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/217679/libreoffice_33_handson_with_the_free_office_suite.html l My question might be naive so bear on with me: how can we avoid this amount of crap ? it's really only good for Open Source Developers but not in real life That's not journalism that's prejudice. I miss SharePoint..WTF? Your comments are welcome (note: I might have taken the issue in a completely wrong way). Best, I had read, which I just did here, that Italo was going to respond to the article. We should also not be afraid to respond as users as well. Also note that PCWorld Business Centre had given us a favourable mention[1]. So, we are making inroads. At the moment, I personally think that personal LibreOffice user feedback on these LibreOffice review articles should be promoted on our lists. After all, we build it, now its time that we make our voice heard. Cheers Marc [1] http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/212578/4_reasons_to_try_libreoffice.html -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.orgmarketing%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.orgmarketing%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** I just made a couple of comments :-) Don't forget PC World makes money from selling MS licenses. It's business model means it makes nothing from promoting open source because this will detract from customers buying software licenses from them. Someone else might like to point this out in a comment. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
Hi Marc 2011/1/26 Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com Le 2011-01-26 09:11, Paulo de Souza Lima a écrit : Hello Charles. I am just a new guy here, but I'd like to give a little opinion: I think that just one day is a too short time to make a real valid opinion about the whole suite. I can be wrong, but much of the article is a little tendentious. However, there some interesting issues in it. He (the author) talks about something like Ms sharepoint or Google Docs. LibreOffice has some extensions to play that role. I can cite GDocs and Wikipublisher, for example (Am I being too naive?). I would not quote either of these unless you use them. I tried Wikipublisher and could not get it to work. I also saw on another thread (I think the French thread) where there was a discussion on this. Do you use GDocs? If so, you could let us know how well it works. You should even let us know if it does not work well so that we can fix it. I don't use Wikipublisher, despite it's installed in my BrOffice. But I was successfully using Gdocs in version 3.2. I have not tried it in 3.3 yet, but a quick test showed some errors I haven't seen in version 3.2. I could import documents from Google Docs, but I cannot save them to. I use LibreOffice at work, at a public company in Brazil. Almost everyone here (500+ workers) use this office suite, so I just don't understand why should the company rely on a journalist recommendation. Despite some people follow opinion makers, most of the companies follow their own interests. This is exactly the type of information that need to show up on the comments. You could add you comment if you wanted. Yes, I will do that as soon as I have a little free time here :) The problem with the horizontal scroll bar, he told, I couldn't reproduce in my computer (I am using Ubuntu 10.04). I couldn't see any JRE erros until now on my system, related to LibreOffice. I haven't experienced all of the suite until this moment, and I think it's gonna take a month, at least, for me to make an opinion about it, because it's a very complex application. Sorry for any inconvenience. Rgds. Paulo, your remarks are not an inconvenience, they are an inspiration. Thank you for your remarks. Marc Rgds -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
On 26 January 2011 14:58, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 2011-01-26 09:11, Paulo de Souza Lima a écrit : Hello Charles. I am just a new guy here, but I'd like to give a little opinion: I think that just one day is a too short time to make a real valid opinion about the whole suite. I can be wrong, but much of the article is a little tendentious. However, there some interesting issues in it. He (the author) talks about something like Ms sharepoint or Google Docs. LibreOffice has some extensions to play that role. I can cite GDocs and Wikipublisher, for example (Am I being too naive?). I would not quote either of these unless you use them. I tried Wikipublisher and could not get it to work. I also saw on another thread (I think the French thread) where there was a discussion on this. Do you use GDocs? If so, you could let us know how well it works. You should even let us know if it does not work well so that we can fix it. We use Drupal as a content management system for sharing information. In conjunction with Google Docs spreadsheet we manage our EU projects. We use OOo for some things like dealing with forms sent to use from the National Agency as .docs. Mostly though we don't want to print info so why would we use desktop file based apps except for some specialised functions? Main difference as far as I can see is that we don't have any license fees to pay and neither do our partners. Neither is our info locked into proprietary apps or formats. I use LibreOffice at work, at a public company in Brazil. Almost everyone here (500+ workers) use this office suite, so I just don't understand why should the company rely on a journalist recommendation. Despite some people follow opinion makers, most of the companies follow their own interests. This is exactly the type of information that need to show up on the comments. You could add you comment if you wanted. The problem with the horizontal scroll bar, he told, I couldn't reproduce in my computer (I am using Ubuntu 10.04). I couldn't see any JRE erros until now on my system, related to LibreOffice. I haven't experienced all of the suite until this moment, and I think it's gonna take a month, at least, for me to make an opinion about it, because it's a very complex application. Sorry for any inconvenience. Rgds. Paulo, your remarks are not an inconvenience, they are an inspiration. Thank you for your remarks. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.orgmarketing%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
At the moment they seem to be quite happy with posts that are against the article but i think a post outing PCWorld's method of making money might make them unhappy. There are some excellent comments there already :) Regards from Tom :) From: Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com To: marketing@libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 26 January, 2011 14:56:59 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article On 26 January 2011 14:47, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Perhaps someone could offer to write them another article and ask how much they would pay? A more in-depth article about 1 function or 1 of the packages, such as focusing on Writer or Calc or something. Or perhaps a simple HowTo Guide or something? Regards from Tom :) From: Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com To: marketing@libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 26 January, 2011 14:42:13 Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article Le 2011-01-26 08:26, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Hello, the coverage of LibreOffice 3.3 is generally good, and the span of the coverage (the number of written articles) is excellent. Anyone , any journalist is entitled to his/her own opinion, but this article is somewhat problematic. I usually read these articles and their comments carefully. They are often good sources to understand the outside perception of an OSS project or product. Yet I don't manage to find one point that is not sheer and free criticism of LibreOffice in this one. http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/217679/libreoffice_33_handson_with_the_free_office_suite.html l l My question might be naive so bear on with me: how can we avoid this amount of crap ? it's really only good for Open Source Developers but not in real life That's not journalism that's prejudice. I miss SharePoint..WTF? Your comments are welcome (note: I might have taken the issue in a completely wrong way). Best, I had read, which I just did here, that Italo was going to respond to the article. We should also not be afraid to respond as users as well. Also note that PCWorld Business Centre had given us a favourable mention[1]. So, we are making inroads. At the moment, I personally think that personal LibreOffice user feedback on these LibreOffice review articles should be promoted on our lists. After all, we build it, now its time that we make our voice heard. Cheers Marc [1] http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/212578/4_reasons_to_try_libreoffice.html l -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.orgmarketing%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.orgmarketing%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** I just made a couple of comments :-) Don't forget PC World makes money from selling MS licenses. It's business model means it makes nothing from promoting open source because this will detract from customers buying software licenses from them. Someone else might like to point this out in a comment. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
Errr, i meant write an article for PCWorld promoting LibreOffice and see if PCWorld would pay to publish the article? I would think that the 1st step would be to contact PCWorld with an idea and ask how much they would pay? I hope we are happy with people using LibreOffice to make money in legitimate ways as suggested by the Free Software Foundation and Richard Stallman. Otherwise we all need to work for people such as MicroSquish or Oracle during the day and then see if there is any time left outside of that. NOT exactly a good option for many people! Regards from Tom :) From: Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com To: marketing@libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 26 January, 2011 16:14:46 Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article Le 2011-01-26 09:47, Tom Davies a écrit : Perhaps someone could offer to write them another article and ask how much they would pay? A more in-depth article about 1 function or 1 of the packages, such as focusing on Writer or Calc or something. Or perhaps a simple HowTo Guide or something? Regards from Tom :) Hmm ... let's not forget that we are a community and work not for profit on LibreOffice. This makes it OUR product. A member could write up such an article about her/his product on their spare time, submit it, and, not ask for pay. This would be promoting her/his product. This is what membership contribution to LibreOffice is all about. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
On 1/26/11 5:27 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Errr, i meant write an article for PCWorld promoting LibreOffice and see if PCWorld would pay to publish the article? I would think that the 1st step would be to contact PCWorld with an idea and ask how much they would pay? Sorry, but I do not think that at this stage it is a good idea at all, and I kindly ask anybody to refrain from such a project. Magazines have the right to choose their contributors and to decide how much they want to pay them for their services, but suggesting an article that has not been requested - being an advocate of that product - does not qualify for money (and it would be considered very naif). I write an average of four articles per month about free software, but I have never received any money for them (while I am regularly paid for my articles when is the magazine that asks me to write something). Media relations is a professional activity, and we have to handle it very carefully. Jumping in without the propoer qualification is a risk for the awareness and the reputation of the whole project. I hope we are happy with people using LibreOffice to make money in legitimate ways as suggested by the Free Software Foundation and Richard Stallman. Otherwise we all need to work for people such as MicroSquish or Oracle during the day and then see if there is any time left outside of that. NOT exactly a good option for many people! Yes, we are happy if people makes money in a legitimate way, but this is not a legitimate way. In addition, as I have clearly stated at least once, please refrain from calling Microsoft on TDF mailing lists in any different way, especially if you call other companies with their right name. If you miss the keys to write Microsoft, you are free to cut and paste from this message: Microsoft MicroSoft MICROSOFT microsoft. You have all the flavours now. Ciao, Italo -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation E-mail: italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org Mobile +39.348.5653829 - VoIP: +39.02.320621813 Skype: italovignoli - GTalk: italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
Hi :) I am sorry but my fingers typed on autopilot. There are many forums and places that use much harsher words to describe those amazingly liberating and generous people at Redmond. It is unkind to speak so badly of them when they treat people so wonderfully and produce such excellent products that co-operate with others so well. I am sure that they talk about LibreOffice with high regard and we should be just as respectful to them. Perhaps we should be promoting them since they are so wonderful. The name i used is child-like rather than really insulting or derogatory. Clearly you seem to think that squish means something it doesn't. Perhaps you are thinking of squash? If those wonderful people at Redmond had lost court cases such as the EU one about offering a choice of web-browsers then such terms might be considered apt. Oh wait, they did. Regards from Tom :) From: Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com To: marketing@libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 26 January, 2011 16:56:12 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article On 1/26/11 5:27 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Errr, i meant write an article for PCWorld promoting LibreOffice and see if PCWorld would pay to publish the article? I would think that the 1st step would be to contact PCWorld with an idea and ask how much they would pay? Sorry, but I do not think that at this stage it is a good idea at all, and I kindly ask anybody to refrain from such a project. Magazines have the right to choose their contributors and to decide how much they want to pay them for their services, but suggesting an article that has not been requested - being an advocate of that product - does not qualify for money (and it would be considered very naif). I write an average of four articles per month about free software, but I have never received any money for them (while I am regularly paid for my articles when is the magazine that asks me to write something). Media relations is a professional activity, and we have to handle it very carefully. Jumping in without the propoer qualification is a risk for the awareness and the reputation of the whole project. I hope we are happy with people using LibreOffice to make money in legitimate ways as suggested by the Free Software Foundation and Richard Stallman. Otherwise we all need to work for people such as MicroSquish or Oracle during the day and then see if there is any time left outside of that. NOT exactly a good option for many people! Yes, we are happy if people makes money in a legitimate way, but this is not a legitimate way. In addition, as I have clearly stated at least once, please refrain from calling Microsoft on TDF mailing lists in any different way, especially if you call other companies with their right name. If you miss the keys to write Microsoft, you are free to cut and paste from this message: Microsoft MicroSoft MICROSOFT microsoft. You have all the flavours now. Ciao, Italo -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation E-mail: italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org Mobile +39.348.5653829 - VoIP: +39.02.320621813 Skype: italovignoli - GTalk: italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
Tom, Italo thoughts and reminders are highly professional. He is concerned about the reputation of the LibreOffice project. Writing even project-internal Mails (which can be read for years publicly in the internet) in a respectless or even just childish-naive tone diminishes the reputation of this project. On Wednesday 26 January 2011 18:16, Tom Davies wrote: ... The name i used is child-like rather than really insulting or derogatory. So, please try to be a little bit more adult-like. It won't harm, I promise you. Nino -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
Compare and contrast with terms used by other people in other mailing lists - even other professional lists. I try but it is not always easy to remember that this list, unlike so many others, is so pro-MicroSoft. Regards from Tom :) From: Nino Novak nn.l...@kflog.org To: marketing@libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 26 January, 2011 17:36:08 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article Tom, Italo thoughts and reminders are highly professional. He is concerned about the reputation of the LibreOffice project. Writing even project-internal Mails (which can be read for years publicly in the internet) in a respectless or even just childish-naive tone diminishes the reputation of this project. On Wednesday 26 January 2011 18:16, Tom Davies wrote: ... The name i used is child-like rather than really insulting or derogatory. So, please try to be a little bit more adult-like. It won't harm, I promise you. Nino -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: PC world article
On 1/26/11 6:51 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Compare and contrast with terms used by other people in other mailing lists - even other professional lists. I try but it is not always easy to remember that this list, unlike so many others, is so pro-MicroSoft. As I said in the past, and I repeat today (hopefully, for the last time), this project will never be ANTI anything. This, of course, does not mean that it is FOR everything. There is a simple rule in business: if you want to be respected, start by respecting others. As I want to be respected, I start by respecting, and I definitely think that if TDF wants to be respected must be respectful. So said, there are many places where your lack of respect for Microsoft is going to be seen as a plus, and I wonder why you do not choose one of these places for your ramblings. Here, we are different, and we respect Microsoft, although we do not like and approve close to 100% of its behaviours and actions. -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation E-mail: italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org Mobile +39.348.5653829 - VoIP: +39.02.320621813 Skype: italovignoli - GTalk: italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
