Re: I need for some copywriting for gnome.org
I like this homepage. We definitely need to make it more updatable and with just the neded text, with a single word more. I would replace Technology by Depelopment in the navigation bar. Quim En/na Andreas Nilsson ha escrit: I am once again in need of people who can actually write. This time it's -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME Logo Font
Just my votes on this discussion. - GNOME shouldn't use any proprietary font in the logo, website and any documents generate having available free fonts. - Bitstream Vera Sans for the logo. Quim -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME Logo Font
What about the luxi font family? They look good, and they come in some distros. 2005/8/15, Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Just my votes on this discussion. - GNOME shouldn't use any proprietary font in the logo, website and any documents generate having available free fonts. - Bitstream Vera Sans for the logo. Quim -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- -Luis Santander -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Looking for some pointing
On 8/12/05, YetZero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here, I have my entries. I tried sending them last week, but I had to wait for moderator confirmation to send the images to the list as an attachment. Well, they didn´t come at all, and I found where to upload them. Here they are: http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1740/gnomelivecdwallpaper10248re.png http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9638/gnomelivecdsplash4ut.png http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9227/gnomelivecdbootsplash6sq.png I really like these! I'm not sure why exactly, but they seem less overwhelmingly blue than Andreas's mockups, which is really nice. I have no idea how I should decide; suggestions from the artist types welcome :) By the way, I added 2.12 to the pictures... but now I'm wondering if that's the release that's going to be on the live cd... Please correct me if I'm wrong... That is the right release. Luis 2005/8/8, Luis Villa [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 8/8/05, Andreas Nilsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been working on the liveCD-artwork-stuff and will probably have a whole set done in a couple of days. Great! YetZero, I don't have a list offhand, but there is a rough list of needs here: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeLiveCd_2fToDo#head-308e17d2200a17ac8205cdd6c3cf19b32bfb8c26 Nothing wrong with something to choose from though, so I would love to see some stuff by YetZero. Something that I feel we need is more posters for people to put up on universites and for booths at conferences and events. Totally! And I still owe you a first draft of some poster text :/ Luis Luis Villa wrote: Well, I'm just one guy, but I'm looking for a new splash and new background for the liveCD. The colors should go nicely with the new default theme, and the foot should be prominent, but other than that... I'm real flexible :) Luis On 7/14/05, YetZero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I'm new to this list, and would like to help. I saw in the main page that some graphic designers are needed, and I'm one, so can someone point me in something that I could help with? I'd really like to be useful, but I'm not coder, so better doing my stuff, that's graphics. Suggestions, anyone? Excuse my english. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- -Luis Santander -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Yet Another Poster
On 8/10/05, Andreas Nilsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did another poster to match the Official Desktop of Happy People one. It seems like I didn't have support for thaiwanese, so that's currently three squares in the png. Will fix it later. Hope to do them as pdf soon, not sure how though. Scribus svg support is not satisfying enough yet. http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/poster-language.png http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/poster-language.svg If we want to change the texts, how best to do that? Luis P.S. Has anyone given any thought to how to i18n-ize these? Danilo, is it possible to i18n-ize svg? :) -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: In need for some text for a poster
On 8/10/05, David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We would like to welcome you to Linux and the GNOME dekstop. Welcome to the Official Desktop of Happy People! Can we take out Linux and? GNOME isn't just for Linux, and I'd like to see us establish our own brand presence (which might include GNOME applications on Windows soon) Also, we talk about the GNOME Desktop Environment higher up, here it's the GNOME desktop. I've changed both to the GNOME Desktop. As an aside, while we do want very badly to establish our own brand, we also want to (as much as possible) be affiliated with 'linux desktop'- the reality is that no one goes around googling for 'gnome' (unless they want tiny men in hats), and lots of people have interest in the 'linux desktop', so we need to capitalize on that and make google love us on that phrase. Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Some criticisms of GNOME
Hi all, Here's an e-mail I got from the editor of tuxmag, which details some criticisms of the desktop. It raises some points that are interesting, and to which we should probably have an answer. Cheers, Dave. Tux Editor wrote: David, The numbers come from Evans Data Corp. And it's a no-brainer to see that the numbers reflect how real people think. Without ANY help from me, my 11 year old daughter jumped right into KDE and had no problems at all using it and customizing it, right down to the way the panel looks and works. She hates GNOME with a passion, partly because it is a total enigma to her, and partly because it's so darned ugly. Okay, that's just a matter of taste, but I happen to think it's ugly, too. Mango rips GNOME a new one in the next issue for many of the reasons my daughter hates it. I used to have fun with venom, but now that Mango provides that style I let her do it and I can take a different approach to my columns. But even if I'm kinder and gentler these days (sometimes, anyway), I must agree with Mango on some things. For example, I totally agree with her upcoming statement that the file open/save dialog (I call it the file picker) is worse than bamboo shoots under fingernails. I can't imagine anything less intuitive than a GNOME/GTK file open/save dialog. That's one of the things that really made my daughter hate GNOME and GTK-based apps that use that dialog. She gets totally lost when she has to deal with that dialog. The GNOME interface is also inconsistent in the way it handles things. I won't go into detail now, but GNOME often makes things easy for a user at the cost of limiting what GNOME can do afterward. Mango hints about one of those cases, so read her column if you want an example. Her example also points out that KDE is too difficult in some ways, too, and I agree with her 100%. KDE is far from perfect. I think the spacial Nautilus is nuts, and this is coming from a person who used to love OS/2 -- and the OS/2 workplace shell worked almost the same way as Nautilus works now. I can deal with spacial Nautilus, but IMO the problem isn't the concept. The problem is that the people who went with it jumped into it too quickly. They didn't think it through and provide options for those who wouldn't like it the way THEY liked it. For example, what about those users who don't want to keep opening new windows on the desktop? Yes, I know you can FINALLY use a GUI way to change this behavior NOW. But when spacial Nautilus was introduced, the only way to change the default behavior was to change a registry setting. Now THAT is a total lack of foresight. But wait, there's more. Right-click to use the browser mode? Totally unintuitive. Windows makes that mistake, too. But wait, there's even more. Shift-double-click to close the previous window? How intuitive is that?!?!? Why not simply provide an OBVIOUS global option (a checkbox in an obvious place) that tells Nautilus to close the previous window when you navigate to another folder? If I recall correctly, even the OS/2 designers provided that option. Problem solved -- all it took was a little forethought, which is something the GNOME developers totally lack. Speaking of which, I don't know if you still can't use the shift key to close the previous window when you set GNOME to open things with a single-click, but that's yet another example of GNOME developers lacking forethought. Some people like to single-click things to activate them, and GNOME lets you switch to single-click. Yet you couldn't shift-single-click a folder to open a new one and close the previous one. Didn't anyone consider that people work differently than they do? That's just really bad QA. But what probably irks me the most about GNOME is that it forces you to choose between what OTHERS have decided your desktop should look like. This is the same as Didn't anyone consider that people work differently than they do? You have a tiny bit of tweaking room (you can mix and match pre-defined icons with pre-defined window styles and pre-defined widget styles), but you can't do something as simple as pick the color of window title bar. I've heard GNOMEies and GTKies say that this is deliberate design decision. It keeps people from doing something stupid like making the window title bar white and the text white (and therefore make the window title text unreadable). I'll believe that excuse when I believe in the easter bunny. Face it. GTK simply wasn't built to let normal humans customize things like the color of the window title bar, and it would be a bear to go back and re-write GTK to work that way. I suspect nobody wants to do that, so it stays the way it is, and people keep relying on the excuses for the dumb behavior. I'd be much more kind to the GNOME/GTK authors if they'd just be honest and admit they screwed up and had no real foresight when they built GTK. The exuse is lame. These are
Re: Yet Another Poster
Luis Villa wrote: On 8/10/05, Andreas Nilsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did another poster to match the Official Desktop of Happy People one. It seems like I didn't have support for thaiwanese, so that's currently three squares in the png. Will fix it later. Hope to do them as pdf soon, not sure how though. Scribus svg support is not satisfying enough yet. http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/poster-language.png http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/poster-language.svg If we want to change the texts, how best to do that? Luis P.S. Has anyone given any thought to how to i18n-ize these? Danilo, is it possible to i18n-ize svg? :) SVG is an XML file and I believe that intl-tools should be able to work with them in either of two ways: 1. Use xmlpo/poxml to extract the text, localise, then put back. 2. Put placeholders in the SVG file for the content to be localised and a preprocessor would generate a .po file from the poster-language.svg.in file. Requires putting manually those placeholders for each version of .svg file. Of course, the final work goes to the person actually doing this. :) Danilo? In addition, Inkscape can be invoked from the command-line to do simple processing such as exporting to PNG. This would help tremendously, as the generation of logos/posters can be fully automated. See the command-line parameters: http://www.inkscape.org/doc/inkscape-man.html For example, $ inkscape poster-language.svg --export-png=poster-language.png -w990 -h1265 It's crying to be automated. I had a look at http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/poster-language.png The resolution is not high so I can only guess that sodipodi does not deal correctly with complex scripts. For example, notice the word after Swedish (Svenska); there is an accent on its own that did not combine with the rest of the glyphs. If you can pinpoint those misplaced accents, you can pass as an expert in complex scripts :). I re-exported the same SVG file with Inkscape 0.42 and it appears to works better: http://www.isg.rhul.ac.uk/~simos/misc/posterlanguage-inkscape.png All in all, the tools work and work well. Simos -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: I need for some copywriting for gnome.org
On 8/15/05, Rob Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/16/05, Luis Villa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Easy to get With support from Novell, Red Hat, Sun and many others, getting GNOME on your Linux or Solaris desktop has never been easier- just [link to ~davyd/footware/]click here[/] to find out how to become a GNOME user today. It's slightly pedantic, but it's always better to avoid 'click here' on links (WCAG 13.1, guideline gurus!) as the link has no context (for search engines etc.). Yeah, I knew that, just... it was awkward :) Perhaps we could use: With support from Novell, Red Hat, Sun and many others, getting GNOME on your Linux or Solaris desktop has never been easier. [link to ~davyd/footware/]Find out how to become a GNOME user today![/] Much better. That was sort of whimsy anyway, since I need to work with Davyd to get that page more usable before we pimp it from the front page. Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Some criticisms of GNOME
Hi, That was quite an interesting e-mail. Thanks for forwarding. How do we deal with it? Well, imagine the new version of OpenOffice.org which does not have the toolbars with those bold/italics/underline buttons, the left-right-center-justify buttons for paragraphs, allowing you to change fonts and font styles. You could only get them back if you tinkered the .config files. How would you feel about that? Would you be terrified? Dismayed? Why would you want to remove these basic buttons? The reason is, you should use styles when writing documents, rather than setting properties manually by changing the font size or making bold. If you want to make a heading, you use Heading 1 style. If you want it a bit different, change the style for Heading 1. If such a style does not exist, make a new one for your document. Doesn't this take time? If you learn to do this the proper way, document creation would be much more appealing. But doesn't it take time? Well, I have seen my colleagues (in different departments) that use MS Word for the thesis, they end up with a huge document with no styles at all. They manually do the table of contents (!), the table of figures and table of tables. The bibliography is a similar mess. If you go into detail in the file, you find all sort of wrong styling that makes the work unmanageable. In departments that use ancient scripts (like ancient greek), they still (2005) use 8-bit fonts that the english characters are replaced with the ancient script. They do not use Unicode, not even the way that WinXP supports. Imagine Google trying to index those files! It will crash! Just to repeat, this is PhD thesis level we are talking about. What's the moral of the story? It's lame to criticize something and reject it simply because you could not figure out how to make it work. When I first tried spatial nautilus, I felt it was weird. I tried however to use it for a few days; there should be something positive out of it. After those few days I figured out that it makes sense. You need to have shallow hierarchies (Documents, and in there only put subdirectories). You wouldn't use sparial nautilus to navigate to system directories. If you want to browse files, it's Foot/Browse files. Are GNOME developers always correct then? Well, it's an issue of the GNOME community to market the new functionality to the end-users, and I believe we are working towards this direction. Cheers, Simos David Neary wrote: Hi all, Here's an e-mail I got from the editor of tuxmag, which details some criticisms of the desktop. It raises some points that are interesting, and to which we should probably have an answer. Cheers, Dave. Tux Editor wrote: David, The numbers come from Evans Data Corp. And it's a no-brainer to see that the numbers reflect how real people think. Without ANY help from me, my 11 year old daughter jumped right into KDE and had no problems at all using it and customizing it, right down to the way the panel looks and works. She hates GNOME with a passion, partly because it is a total enigma to her, and partly because it's so darned ugly. Okay, that's just a matter of taste, but I happen to think it's ugly, too. Mango rips GNOME a new one in the next issue for many of the reasons my daughter hates it. I used to have fun with venom, but now that Mango provides that style I let her do it and I can take a different approach to my columns. But even if I'm kinder and gentler these days (sometimes, anyway), I must agree with Mango on some things. For example, I totally agree with her upcoming statement that the file open/save dialog (I call it the file picker) is worse than bamboo shoots under fingernails. I can't imagine anything less intuitive than a GNOME/GTK file open/save dialog. That's one of the things that really made my daughter hate GNOME and GTK-based apps that use that dialog. She gets totally lost when she has to deal with that dialog. The GNOME interface is also inconsistent in the way it handles things. I won't go into detail now, but GNOME often makes things easy for a user at the cost of limiting what GNOME can do afterward. Mango hints about one of those cases, so read her column if you want an example. Her example also points out that KDE is too difficult in some ways, too, and I agree with her 100%. KDE is far from perfect. I think the spacial Nautilus is nuts, and this is coming from a person who used to love OS/2 -- and the OS/2 workplace shell worked almost the same way as Nautilus works now. I can deal with spacial Nautilus, but IMO the problem isn't the concept. The problem is that the people who went with it jumped into it too quickly. They didn't think it through and provide options for those who wouldn't like it the way THEY liked it. For example, what about those users who don't want to keep opening new windows on the desktop? Yes, I know you can FINALLY use a GUI way to change this behavior NOW. But when spacial
Re: Some criticisms of GNOME
Hi, that's no really a surprise, isn't it? Given the editor, and his well known opinon about GNOME? For those that have read no issue yet: Issue 4 spend three and a half pages to explain how to add numlockx to the GNOME startup session, and it was unneccessarily emotional. Of course, it was only the opinion of 'Mango Parfait'. It's not that hard to guess who's really writing the column. However, after talking a step back from the emotional affiliation with ones own work, it may reveal that there's some insight to be gained in the critic, even in the mail from the editor you posted. The more interesting question would be: Is GNOME able to deal with that or not? ;-) Cheers, Claus On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:56:55 +0200 David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Here's an e-mail I got from the editor of tuxmag, which details some criticisms of the desktop. It raises some points that are interesting, and to which we should probably have an answer. Cheers, Dave. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Some criticisms of GNOME
On Monday 15 Aug 2005 23:57, Claus Schwarm wrote: However, after talking a step back from the emotional affiliation with ones own work, it may reveal that there's some insight to be gained in the critic, even in the mail from the editor you posted. The more interesting question would be: Is GNOME able to deal with that or not? ;-) *Warning* KDE lurker jumping in... :o) How about just authoring a considered response or two in blogs / elsewhere, then submitting your own story to Slashdot to the effect of here's a criticism of GNOME, and here's our considered response. Be open and honest but also put the flamebaiting to rest. Really, if anyone can get that worked up at the lack of control over the colour of the window title bar then an adult response from you guys will only make the article (assuming it's similar in tenor to the forwarded email) look like a childish spat covering some interesting issues. *Back to hole from which I clambered* Regards, Tom -- I'm aware that e-mails to me may be blocked by my host because they are mistaken as spam. If this happens, please e-mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: upcoming tuxmag article
On Mon, 2005-08-15 at 16:43 -0400, Luis Villa wrote: On 8/15/05, David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have gotten some notice that the next issue of tuxmag will contain a negative article on GNOME - it's likely to get some slashdot-type attention, so it might be an idea to be somewhat prepared. I got the impression it's the usual GNOME is ugly, file chooser sucks, spatial sucks, where are all the preferences gone? type article. Gah. No other details? That said, sounds like a perfect opportunity to figure out what we really want out of an organized 'fudsquad', and put it into action. Luis Do we need a standard FUD response (like a standard FAQ)? -Travis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: upcoming tuxmag article
quote who=Travis Reitter Do we need a standard FUD response (like a standard FAQ)? Guys, there was no FUD in this email, just a lot of standard Nick Petreley attitude. - Jeff -- EuroOSCON: October 17th-20thhttp://conferences.oreillynet.com/eurooscon/ You put on the pants, and the pants start telling you what to do. - Bono -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Some criticisms of GNOME
You can't win a discussion with a journalist. You can, by not discussing. I would apply some Art of War here and I would create a Get the facts on GNOME-like page with a link visible in the new homepage or the GNOME introduction page. The objective of this page would be to summarize GNOME's responses to the most usual subjects of criticism. The answers won't be like this is not true and we are right (except for criticisms that are objectively plain not true) but like interesting, but in GNOME we have thought about and we have decided that our option is better because a b c. Most of the criticism I've read about GNOME is related to things that work different that the MS Windows / MacOS paradigms a normal citizen acquires in the school, at work... I mean, this daughter that hates GNOME and loves KDE has possibly a knowledge and an opinion about a proprietary OS that will look normal to her. Her father too, I bet. There is no usefulness to confront those paradigms directly, nor to get into Slashdot battles. We have much better things to do. I would acknowledge all criticism, think about it and discuss common answers to be published in this page we can link to when falling in those discussions. Quim -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
