Re: GNOME Journal Issue 16 - September 2009 Released!
Whoohoo!!! Thanks Paul. Special thanks goes to Paul Cutler, for writing all 3 articles for this issue! This is issue 16, Paul Cutler edition! :) Jim On 09/09/2009 09:57 AM, Paul Cutler wrote: The GNOME Journal team has released Issue 16 of the GNOME Journal. Issue 16 features three new articles, including a recap of the recent Writing Open Source Conference, an interview with John Palmieri based on his recent GUADEC talk, Putting the Network back into G(N)OME, and Behind the Scenes with Lucas Rocha (who originally started the Behind the Scenes feature). Issue 17 is currently being planned with a focus on Multimedia - if you would like to contribute an article, please let me know. Special thanks to Jim Hodapp and Shaun McCance for editing, and Lucas and J5 for their time at GUADEC and participating. All articles are released under a CC-BY-SA 2.0 license. Go read GNOME Journal now! http://www.gnomejournal.org Paul Cutler ___ Gnome-journal-list mailing list gnome-journal-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-journal-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Theme for Summit 2009, need everyone's feedback
Hi all, Below is the all the candidate themes for GNOME.Asia summit 2009 in Vietnam so far, I cc: to marketing-list@gnome.org to get more ideas. 1. Discover GNOME 3.0 2. Discover GNOME 3. Discover GNOME - Your Accessible Desktop 4. Discover GNOME - The Accessible Desktop 5. Discover GNOME - Access Your Desktop 6. Access Your Desktop - Discover GNOME 7. Discover your desktop with GNOME 8. Access your desktop with GNOME 9. GNOME your desktop 10.Freedom with GNOME more ... Thanks, Emily -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Suggestion about providing more value to Foundation members
Ar Mer, 2009-09-16 am 11:03 -0600, ysgrifennodd Stormy Peters: On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Brian Cameron brian.came...@sun.com wrote: Stormy: How do we encourage people to write recommendations? Could we do some sort of Pass it on campaign? A few of us could write recommendations and then ask the people we recommended to pass it on by recommending two more people. That is not a bad idea. However, I think one thing that makes this hard is that many people probably do not know who is doing good hard work. Many people might be thrilled by the new bugzilla, for example, but have no idea who did the work. It is hard to recommend people if you do not know who is doing things. What if we had a thank you GNOME mailing list or page. People could send in their thanks for specific features or work and we could match it up with the right person. Perl have a 'perlthanks' utility which is essentially a configuration of their bug reporting tool to emial thank-you notes. It would be nice to have such a program in GNOME (possibly linked to the About Gnome UI), though all that may be needed is a link to a webpage in About Gnome where they can submit a thank-you note. Regards, Iestyn signature.asc Description: Mae hwn yn rhan neges wedi'i lofnodi'n ddigidol -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Promoting the GNOME amazon store
Hi, Shall I add to the main gnome page like this http://gnome.haitsma.org/ Jaap On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 23:40, Shane Fagan shanepatrickfa...@ubuntu.com wrote: I didnt know about the gnome amazon store until I heard about it on this list. Its just not visable on the main page of Gnome.org so id say the reason why its not being used is really lack of visability. Shane On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 16:09 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: Jaap: Sofar we made this month the following in the GNOME amazon store http://www.gnome.org/friends/amazon/ $5 in the US 1.4 euro in Germany 618 yen in Japan and nothing in Canada and the UK We need some more marketing such that people in the community that buy at amazon will use the store or install the search plugin. Maybe some more people should blog about it Any other ideas what we can do? Why doesn't http://library.gnome.org/ and other relevant sites on the GNOME web point to the Amazon store? Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Promoting the GNOME amazon store
I don't like having the Amazon logo on our home page. We don't have anyone else's logo there. I am ok with the text and link. Stormy On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org wrote: +1 from me. Let's get one more from the marketing team before making the change. Paul On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Jaap A. Haitsma j...@haitsma.org wrote: Hi, Shall I add to the main gnome page like this http://gnome.haitsma.org/ Jaap On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 23:40, Shane Fagan shanepatrickfa...@ubuntu.com wrote: I didnt know about the gnome amazon store until I heard about it on this list. Its just not visable on the main page of Gnome.org so id say the reason why its not being used is really lack of visability. Shane On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 16:09 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: Jaap: Sofar we made this month the following in the GNOME amazon store http://www.gnome.org/friends/amazon/ $5 in the US 1.4 euro in Germany 618 yen in Japan and nothing in Canada and the UK We need some more marketing such that people in the community that buy at amazon will use the store or install the search plugin. Maybe some more people should blog about it Any other ideas what we can do? Why doesn't http://library.gnome.org/ and other relevant sites on the GNOME web point to the Amazon store? Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Promoting the GNOME amazon store
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 16:56, Stormy Peters sto...@gnome.org wrote: I don't like having the Amazon logo on our home page. We don't have anyone else's logo there. I am ok with the text and link. I understand maybe somebody with more graphic skills than me can make a nice logo for the GNOME Amazon store. A logo is much better for conversion rates. People or much more likely to notice it and click on it I'll push the link for now and hopefully a graphic artist can make a nice logo Jaap Stormy On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org wrote: +1 from me. Let's get one more from the marketing team before making the change. Paul On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Jaap A. Haitsma j...@haitsma.org wrote: Hi, Shall I add to the main gnome page like this http://gnome.haitsma.org/ Jaap On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 23:40, Shane Fagan shanepatrickfa...@ubuntu.com wrote: I didnt know about the gnome amazon store until I heard about it on this list. Its just not visable on the main page of Gnome.org so id say the reason why its not being used is really lack of visability. Shane On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 16:09 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: Jaap: Sofar we made this month the following in the GNOME amazon store http://www.gnome.org/friends/amazon/ $5 in the US 1.4 euro in Germany 618 yen in Japan and nothing in Canada and the UK We need some more marketing such that people in the community that buy at amazon will use the store or install the search plugin. Maybe some more people should blog about it Any other ideas what we can do? Why doesn't http://library.gnome.org/ and other relevant sites on the GNOME web point to the Amazon store? Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Software Freedom Day Press Release
I incorporated Paul's feedback and I'm cc'ing the marketing team so we can get some more feedback as this needs to go out tomorrow. (FYI, I won't be online this afternoon so please don't wait for me if you have good feedback or ideas.) We are looking for input and feedback on a GNOME press release to support Software Freedom Day. Once we get feedback and do some more edits, can someone on this list post this to the website tomorrow? Thanks, Stormy GNOME promotes Software Freedom Day September 19, 2009 The GNOME Community is a excited to promote and participate in Software Freedom Day. Around the world, GNOME community members will be celebrating software freedom and the work that GNOME has done to make a free desktop accessible for all. Software Freedom is about a technology future that we can trust, that is sustainable, and that supports the basic human freedoms. Untrusted electoral systems can lead to civil unrest and a lack of trust in governing bodies. Proprietary data formats can mean lockout to accessing our own information! Software Freedom can be maintained by transparent systems (such as Free and Open Source Software) that are based on open, secure and sustainable standards including data formats and communication protocols. In addition, software freedom is about making sure that software can be used by all humanity regardless of the language they speak, the amount of money they have or their physical abilities. And this is where GNOME excels. To provide free software to everyone, GNOME is: Free. GNOME is Free Software and part of the GNU project, dedicated to giving users and developers the ultimate level of control over their desktops, their software, and their data. Find out more about the GNU project and Free Software at gnu.org. Usable. GNOME understands that usability is about creating software that is easy for everyone to use. GNOME's community of professional and volunteer usability experts have created Free Software's first and only Human Interface Guidelines, and all core GNOME software is adopting these principles. Find out more about GNOME and usability at the GNOME Usability Project. Accessible Free Software is about enabling software freedom for everyone, including users and developers with disabilities. GNOME's Accessibility framework is the result of several years of effort, and makes GNOME the most accessible desktop for any Unix platform. Find out more at the GNOME Accessibility Project. http://projects.gnome.org/accessibility/ International GNOME is used, developed and documented in dozens of languages, and we strive to ensure that every piece of GNOME software can be translated into all languages. During the last GNOME Development cycle, the GNOME Desktop was translated into over 40 languages! Developer-friendly Developers are not tied to a single language with GNOME. You can use C, C++, Python, Perl, Java, and C#, to produce high-quality applications that integrate smoothly into the rest of your Unix or GNU/Linux (commonly referred to as Linux) desktop. Organized GNOME strives to be an organized community, with a foundation of several hundred members, usability, accessibility, and QA teams, and an elected board. GNOME releases are defined by the GNOME Release Team every six months. Supported Beyond the worldwide GNOME Community, GNOME is supported by the leading companies in GNU/Linux and Unix and many free software projects, including Access, Canonical, Debian, Free Software Foundation, HP, Google, IBM, Igalia, Intel, Motorola, Mozilla Foundation, Nokia, Novell, OLPC, Red Hat, Software Freedom Law Center, Sugar Labs and Sun. GNOME is proud to be the default Desktop Environment that powers popular distributions including Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE and OpenSolaris. A community Perhaps more than anything else, GNOME is a worldwide community of volunteers who hack, translate, design, QA, and generally have fun together. Please join the GNOME community in celebrating the achievements the free software world has made. GNOME people will be celebrating Software Freedom Day at: [Need more links!] http://www.andreasn.se/blog/?p=104 http://blog.tomeuvizoso.net/2009/09/free-education-as-in-free-speech.html On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org wrote: Comments in-line (I couldn't figure out the best way to edit this, I need more coffee this morning). Stormy - this looks great, thanks for doing this, especially at the last minute. The reason this has been on my radar was a blog post I read a year ago that took us to task for not doing something like this. Paul On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Stormy Peters sto...@gnome.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org wrote: * Press Release for Software Freedom Day (We didn't do this last year, and it's probably a good opportunity to highlight GNOME's role in free software as a desktop, including translations, accessibility, etc) Here's a
Re: Theme for Summit 2009, need everyone's feedback
Emily: How about Discover Accessing Freedom With GNOME - Your Desktop Just joking. Brian 1. Discover GNOME 3.0 2. Discover GNOME 3. Discover GNOME - Your Accessible Desktop 4. Discover GNOME - The Accessible Desktop 5. Discover GNOME - Access Your Desktop 6. Access Your Desktop - Discover GNOME 7. Discover your desktop with GNOME 8. Access your desktop with GNOME 9. GNOME your desktop 10.Freedom with GNOME more ... Thanks, Emily -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Software Freedom Day Press Release
Hey, 2009/9/18 Stormy Peters sto...@gnome.org: I incorporated Paul's feedback and I'm cc'ing the marketing team so we can get some more feedback as this needs to go out tomorrow. (FYI, I won't be online this afternoon so please don't wait for me if you have good feedback or ideas.) We are looking for input and feedback on a GNOME press release to support Software Freedom Day. Once we get feedback and do some more edits, can someone on this list post this to the website tomorrow? Thanks, Stormy Supported Beyond the worldwide GNOME Community, GNOME is supported by the leading companies in GNU/Linux and Unix and many free software projects, including Access, Canonical, Debian, Free Software Foundation, HP, Google, IBM, Igalia, Intel, Motorola, Mozilla Foundation, Nokia, Novell, OLPC, Red Hat, Software Freedom Law Center, Sugar Labs and Sun. GNOME is proud to be the default Desktop Environment that powers popular distributions including Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE and OpenSolaris. Can we say it is the default desktop environment in openSUSE? Not sure. Looks nice! --lucasr -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Theme for Summit 2009, need everyone's feedback
I vote for Freedom with GNOME. My second choice would be something with a subtitle. Discover GNOME: Your Free Desktop. I'm not sure I'd use the word accessible in the title. At least in English it's not an easy word to say. And obviously I'd like to defer to people that know the local language and culture ... Stormy P.S. Brian, I think we could add the word software to your title, and don't forget usability! Discover Accessing Freedom With Easy-to-Use GNOME - Your Free Software Desktop On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Brian Cameron brian.came...@sun.com wrote: Emily: How about Discover Accessing Freedom With GNOME - Your Desktop Just joking. Brian 1. Discover GNOME 3.0 2. Discover GNOME 3. Discover GNOME - Your Accessible Desktop 4. Discover GNOME - The Accessible Desktop 5. Discover GNOME - Access Your Desktop 6. Access Your Desktop - Discover GNOME 7. Discover your desktop with GNOME 8. Access your desktop with GNOME 9. GNOME your desktop 10.Freedom with GNOME more ... Thanks, Emily ___ asia-summit-list mailing list asia-summit-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/asia-summit-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Software Freedom Day Press Release
On 18/09/09 17:22, Lucas Rocha wrote: Can we say it is the default desktop environment in openSUSE? Not sure. AIUI, Enterprise editions of SUSE default to it (at the moment). OpenSUSE itself actually defaults to KDE, albeit only by pre-selecting an option for the user to choose between. Cheers Alex. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Software Freedom Day Press Release
Let's just drop the openSUSE part. That'll give us a nice round 3. Fedora, Ubuntu and OpenSolaris. Stormy On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Alex Hudson h...@alexhudson.com wrote: On 18/09/09 17:22, Lucas Rocha wrote: Can we say it is the default desktop environment in openSUSE? Not sure. AIUI, Enterprise editions of SUSE default to it (at the moment). OpenSUSE itself actually defaults to KDE, albeit only by pre-selecting an option for the user to choose between. Cheers Alex. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
FSF, terminology, and marketing
Marketing Team: The Free Software Foundation (FSF) encourages the usage of the term GNU/Linux instead of the term Linux, and also discourages referring to free software and licenses as open source. Their argument, which I think is valid, is that doing so helps to highlight free software and bring positive attention towards the free software community. A few people have recently complained to the board that the GNOME community sometimes does not always follow these recommendations. I imagine that some of these issues are caused by people just not being thoughtful about the terminology that they use, but I also do not believe that the GNOME community has an official stance on what language we should be using. At any rate, we should probably be consistent with the language we use in more official GNOME Foundation communications. So, I think it is good to discuss and find out what the overall GNOME community thinks about this before making any sort of decision or encouraging people to use one term or another. On one hand, since we are a GNU project and since one of the long-standing objectives of the GNOME community has been to promote free software, there is a good argument for following these recommendations and making it a more official policy that we try to use the terminology recommended by the FSF. On the other hand, I know that some people in our community feel that it makes more sense to use the terms Linux and open source since they have more traction in the business world, and are more familiar. We often have trouble explaining what GNOME is to people, and it perhaps makes it harder when we use terms that are unfamiliar or that do not have traction. So, there may be situations or types of communication where going against the FSF recommendations makes sense. However, if we feel that we should go against the recommendations of the FSF, we probably should have some solid reasoning for doing so. Also, I think the GNOME Foundation needs to be sensitive to those partners with which we have close working relationships. For example, we need to be sensitive to what opinions those on the advisory board might have to say about the terminology we use. So, I have suggested to Stormy that we raise this topic at an upcoming advisory board meeting and find out what they think about this. Whether or not they care would likely be an important input to consider in making any decision. Perhaps it makes sense to use different terms when talking to different audiences. Perhaps we should make more of an effort to use the terms recommended by the FSF when communicating with some audiences, and use other terms in other situations. If so, perhaps we need to think about when it makes sense to use which terms and make this more clear so people have some guidance about what terms to use and when. So, I am interested to hear what the GNOME marketing community thinks about this. Since many of the documents where we use these terms are in public-facing documents such as marketing materials, PR, press releases, etc. I think whatever terms we use should be something that the marketing team thinks about and has input on any decisions made. Thoughts? Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
Well I dont think many people outside of FSF care. Its harder to say GNU/Linux and more people simply call it just linux. We should respect the FSF but its not a big deal in my opinion. Its just politics. Regards Shane Fagan On Fri, 2009-09-18 at 17:07 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: Marketing Team: The Free Software Foundation (FSF) encourages the usage of the term GNU/Linux instead of the term Linux, and also discourages referring to free software and licenses as open source. Their argument, which I think is valid, is that doing so helps to highlight free software and bring positive attention towards the free software community. A few people have recently complained to the board that the GNOME community sometimes does not always follow these recommendations. I imagine that some of these issues are caused by people just not being thoughtful about the terminology that they use, but I also do not believe that the GNOME community has an official stance on what language we should be using. At any rate, we should probably be consistent with the language we use in more official GNOME Foundation communications. So, I think it is good to discuss and find out what the overall GNOME community thinks about this before making any sort of decision or encouraging people to use one term or another. On one hand, since we are a GNU project and since one of the long-standing objectives of the GNOME community has been to promote free software, there is a good argument for following these recommendations and making it a more official policy that we try to use the terminology recommended by the FSF. On the other hand, I know that some people in our community feel that it makes more sense to use the terms Linux and open source since they have more traction in the business world, and are more familiar. We often have trouble explaining what GNOME is to people, and it perhaps makes it harder when we use terms that are unfamiliar or that do not have traction. So, there may be situations or types of communication where going against the FSF recommendations makes sense. However, if we feel that we should go against the recommendations of the FSF, we probably should have some solid reasoning for doing so. Also, I think the GNOME Foundation needs to be sensitive to those partners with which we have close working relationships. For example, we need to be sensitive to what opinions those on the advisory board might have to say about the terminology we use. So, I have suggested to Stormy that we raise this topic at an upcoming advisory board meeting and find out what they think about this. Whether or not they care would likely be an important input to consider in making any decision. Perhaps it makes sense to use different terms when talking to different audiences. Perhaps we should make more of an effort to use the terms recommended by the FSF when communicating with some audiences, and use other terms in other situations. If so, perhaps we need to think about when it makes sense to use which terms and make this more clear so people have some guidance about what terms to use and when. So, I am interested to hear what the GNOME marketing community thinks about this. Since many of the documents where we use these terms are in public-facing documents such as marketing materials, PR, press releases, etc. I think whatever terms we use should be something that the marketing team thinks about and has input on any decisions made. Thoughts? Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
Am Freitag, den 18.09.2009, 17:07 -0500 schrieb Brian Cameron: The Free Software Foundation (FSF) encourages the usage of the term GNU/Linux instead of the term Linux, and also discourages referring to free software and licenses as open source. Thoughts? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy My very personal opinion: There's a reality out there, and there's the fundamentalists of the FSF. I prefer reality. andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
Shane: Well I dont think many people outside of FSF care. Its harder to say GNU/Linux and more people simply call it just linux. We should respect the FSF but its not a big deal in my opinion. Its just politics. It may be politics, but within the context of the GNOME marketing-list, there should be some sensitivity to politics. The GNOME Foundation does have relationships with various governments and does try to encourage them to use free and open source solutions, for example. So, our messaging should be consistent, and I think we should not discount something in this forum for being just politics. Having a good relationship with the FSF is important. At the moment, we are doing a joint Women's Outreach program with them. The GNOME Foundation also has certain benefits, like the fact that we are able to use the Software Freedom Law Center due to our free software status. By working with the FSF, and following their recommendations, we may find that more doors open, and we may find more opportunities to do interesting and positive things with them and other free software organizations. Aside from the fact that promoting free software with the terminology we use may be just a good thing for any free software community to do. If we choose not to follow their recommendations we may be like that uncle who always says inappropriate things and never gets invited to certain parties. However, as I said before, we do need to consider how the terminology we use affects our other partners, such as our advisory board members. Improving our relationship with the FSF at the expense of our relationship with others, or with the public at large, might not be a good idea. However, I do not think we can make a decision without first talking about it amongst ourselves and with our advisory board members. So, I think it is a good idea to do both before making any sort of decision. Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
So then we just use GNU/Linux and Free and Open Source. Its not too hard to do. On Fri, 2009-09-18 at 17:41 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: Shane: Well I dont think many people outside of FSF care. Its harder to say GNU/Linux and more people simply call it just linux. We should respect the FSF but its not a big deal in my opinion. Its just politics. It may be politics, but within the context of the GNOME marketing-list, there should be some sensitivity to politics. The GNOME Foundation does have relationships with various governments and does try to encourage them to use free and open source solutions, for example. So, our messaging should be consistent, and I think we should not discount something in this forum for being just politics. Having a good relationship with the FSF is important. At the moment, we are doing a joint Women's Outreach program with them. The GNOME Foundation also has certain benefits, like the fact that we are able to use the Software Freedom Law Center due to our free software status. By working with the FSF, and following their recommendations, we may find that more doors open, and we may find more opportunities to do interesting and positive things with them and other free software organizations. Aside from the fact that promoting free software with the terminology we use may be just a good thing for any free software community to do. If we choose not to follow their recommendations we may be like that uncle who always says inappropriate things and never gets invited to certain parties. However, as I said before, we do need to consider how the terminology we use affects our other partners, such as our advisory board members. Improving our relationship with the FSF at the expense of our relationship with others, or with the public at large, might not be a good idea. However, I do not think we can make a decision without first talking about it amongst ourselves and with our advisory board members. So, I think it is a good idea to do both before making any sort of decision. Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
A couple different thoughts: * The most important thing we can do as marketers is know our audience. While I respect Brian's comment we should be sensitive to politics, it's really dependent on document we're writing and whom it is for. * Most of our marketing is at end users - and for that reason, I prefer Linux as that is the common word used by journalists both in the open source press and the mainstream press. * I don't know if I agree that having a good relationship with the FSF is that important. The anecdotal feedback I have on their recent campaigns, including Windows 7 Sins and Bad Vista is that it does more harm than good. While I have great respect for the work done in the past on multiple fronts, including the GNU utilities, the GPL licenses and more, GNOME needs to be relevant now and respectful of our current and potential future users. * Brian, I was curious about an earlier statement you made: since we are a GNU project - are we? What does that mean? Looking at the gnu.orgwebsite and fsf.org GNOME is not mentioned once. Searching on gnu.org, the first search result that mentions GNOME is a 10 year old press release around GNOME 1.0. What is our formal relationship with the FSF and GNU? Those are my long answers. My short answer - I agree with Andre, and I prefer reality. I look forward to hearing the Advisory Board's recommendation as well. Paul On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Brian Cameron brian.came...@sun.comwrote: Shane: Well I dont think many people outside of FSF care. Its harder to say GNU/Linux and more people simply call it just linux. We should respect the FSF but its not a big deal in my opinion. Its just politics. It may be politics, but within the context of the GNOME marketing-list, there should be some sensitivity to politics. The GNOME Foundation does have relationships with various governments and does try to encourage them to use free and open source solutions, for example. So, our messaging should be consistent, and I think we should not discount something in this forum for being just politics. Having a good relationship with the FSF is important. At the moment, we are doing a joint Women's Outreach program with them. The GNOME Foundation also has certain benefits, like the fact that we are able to use the Software Freedom Law Center due to our free software status. By working with the FSF, and following their recommendations, we may find that more doors open, and we may find more opportunities to do interesting and positive things with them and other free software organizations. Aside from the fact that promoting free software with the terminology we use may be just a good thing for any free software community to do. If we choose not to follow their recommendations we may be like that uncle who always says inappropriate things and never gets invited to certain parties. However, as I said before, we do need to consider how the terminology we use affects our other partners, such as our advisory board members. Improving our relationship with the FSF at the expense of our relationship with others, or with the public at large, might not be a good idea. However, I do not think we can make a decision without first talking about it amongst ourselves and with our advisory board members. So, I think it is a good idea to do both before making any sort of decision. Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
Hi Brian; There was a big discussion about GNU/Linux terminology usage in documentation years ago. Here is the starting thread about that discussion: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2006-July/msg00200.html I didn't re-read whole discussion but I remember there wasn't any terminology enforcement done by GNOME Doc Team about this. I've also checked some marketing materials. GNOME 2.26 Release notes does not have any mention of term Linux, and in Quarterly Report only places where Linux is used are either Trademarks or valid usage of Linux as an operating system. And at homepage of gnome.org we already use GNU/Linux. In my honest opinion, as GNOME, our relationship with Linux is similar to our relationship with BSD or Solaris kernels. If we won't call GNU/Solaris, calling GNU/Linux everywhere wouldn't be a consistent approach. Regards, Baris. On Fri, 2009-09-18 at 17:07 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: Marketing Team: The Free Software Foundation (FSF) encourages the usage of the term GNU/Linux instead of the term Linux, and also discourages referring to free software and licenses as open source. Their argument, which I think is valid, is that doing so helps to highlight free software and bring positive attention towards the free software community. A few people have recently complained to the board that the GNOME community sometimes does not always follow these recommendations. I imagine that some of these issues are caused by people just not being thoughtful about the terminology that they use, but I also do not believe that the GNOME community has an official stance on what language we should be using. At any rate, we should probably be consistent with the language we use in more official GNOME Foundation communications. So, I think it is good to discuss and find out what the overall GNOME community thinks about this before making any sort of decision or encouraging people to use one term or another. On one hand, since we are a GNU project and since one of the long-standing objectives of the GNOME community has been to promote free software, there is a good argument for following these recommendations and making it a more official policy that we try to use the terminology recommended by the FSF. On the other hand, I know that some people in our community feel that it makes more sense to use the terms Linux and open source since they have more traction in the business world, and are more familiar. We often have trouble explaining what GNOME is to people, and it perhaps makes it harder when we use terms that are unfamiliar or that do not have traction. So, there may be situations or types of communication where going against the FSF recommendations makes sense. However, if we feel that we should go against the recommendations of the FSF, we probably should have some solid reasoning for doing so. Also, I think the GNOME Foundation needs to be sensitive to those partners with which we have close working relationships. For example, we need to be sensitive to what opinions those on the advisory board might have to say about the terminology we use. So, I have suggested to Stormy that we raise this topic at an upcoming advisory board meeting and find out what they think about this. Whether or not they care would likely be an important input to consider in making any decision. Perhaps it makes sense to use different terms when talking to different audiences. Perhaps we should make more of an effort to use the terms recommended by the FSF when communicating with some audiences, and use other terms in other situations. If so, perhaps we need to think about when it makes sense to use which terms and make this more clear so people have some guidance about what terms to use and when. So, I am interested to hear what the GNOME marketing community thinks about this. Since many of the documents where we use these terms are in public-facing documents such as marketing materials, PR, press releases, etc. I think whatever terms we use should be something that the marketing team thinks about and has input on any decisions made. Thoughts? Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
Paul: * The most important thing we can do as marketers is know our audience. While I respect Brian's comment we should be sensitive to politics, it's really dependent on document we're writing and whom it is for. Agreed. * Most of our marketing is at end users - and for that reason, I prefer Linux as that is the common word used by journalists both in the open source press and the mainstream press. I can understand that position. As I suggested before, there may be certain audiences or situations where using different terminology makes more sense. For example, if we are doing a press release about something that we are doing with the Free Software Foundation, then perhaps it would probably be more appropriate to use the terminology they recommend, for example. * I don't know if I agree that having a good relationship with the FSF is that important. The anecdotal feedback I have on their recent campaigns, including Windows 7 Sins and Bad Vista is that it does more harm than good. While I have great respect for the work done in the past on multiple fronts, including the GNU utilities, the GPL licenses and more, GNOME needs to be relevant now and respectful of our current and potential future users. Still, there is no real value in creating friction where it is not necessary. So, even if there is value in using the term Linux in some communications, it seems good to clarify if and when there are any situations where following the FSF recommendations are recommended. While we may choose to not use the term GNU/Linux, perhaps we could make an active effort to highlight GNU or the free software community in other ways? * Brian, I was curious about an earlier statement you made: since we are a GNU project - are we? What does that mean? Looking at the gnu.org http://gnu.org website and fsf.org http://fsf.org GNOME is not mentioned once. Searching on gnu.org http://gnu.org, the first search result that mentions GNOME is a 10 year old press release around GNOME 1.0. What is our formal relationship with the FSF and GNU? The G in GNOME stands for GNU. So, the people who created GNOME felt it was important to be under the GNU Umbrella of projects and that our project would be a shining example of a free software project. :) http://directory.fsf.org/project/gnome/ http://www.gnome.org/about/ Quoting from the last link: GNOME is... Free GNOME is Free Software and part of the GNU project, dedicated to giving users and developers the ultimate level of control over their desktops, their software, and their data. Find out more about the GNU project and Free Software at gnu.org. In fact, I believe one of the reasons why GNOME replaced KDE as the most popular software desktop on free/open operating systems is because of its free licensing. So, the current popularity that we enjoy is due, in part, to our relationship with the free software community and the FSF. So, perhaps we should honor that it some ways. Those are my long answers. My short answer - I agree with Andre, and I prefer reality. I look forward to hearing the Advisory Board's recommendation as well. Yes, I think this is an issue that a lot of people have already made strong opinions about, which probably makes it hard to think things through very well. So, I think we need to be a bit careful as we consider this topic to not jump to any quick conclusions. But, the fact that the lead of GNOME Marketing is not aware that GNOME is a GNU project is probably a symptom of a larger problem - that we do not do a very good job of promoting the free software aspects of our overall ethic. And regardless of what terminology we use for Linux or GNU/Linux, we probably should work to improve that. Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
Baris: There was a big discussion about GNU/Linux terminology usage in documentation years ago. Here is the starting thread about that discussion: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2006-July/msg00200.html I didn't re-read whole discussion but I remember there wasn't any terminology enforcement done by GNOME Doc Team about this. I've also checked some marketing materials. GNOME 2.26 Release notes does not have any mention of term Linux, and in Quarterly Report only places where Linux is used are either Trademarks or valid usage of Linux as an operating system. And at homepage of gnome.org we already use GNU/Linux. In my honest opinion, as GNOME, our relationship with Linux is similar to our relationship with BSD or Solaris kernels. If we won't call GNU/Solaris, calling GNU/Linux everywhere wouldn't be a consistent approach. As you say, perhaps if there is not a real need to refer to Linux in our writing, then we should more actively avoid using a controversial term. I often notice that when it is used, it is often used to mean any distribution which uses GNOME, which is, as you highlight, an incorrect usage anyway. Brian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Brian Cameron brian.came...@sun.comwrote: Paul: * The most important thing we can do as marketers is know our audience. While I respect Brian's comment we should be sensitive to politics, it's really dependent on document we're writing and whom it is for. Agreed. * Most of our marketing is at end users - and for that reason, I prefer Linux as that is the common word used by journalists both in the open source press and the mainstream press. I can understand that position. As I suggested before, there may be certain audiences or situations where using different terminology makes more sense. For example, if we are doing a press release about something that we are doing with the Free Software Foundation, then perhaps it would probably be more appropriate to use the terminology they recommend, for example. * I don't know if I agree that having a good relationship with the FSF is that important. The anecdotal feedback I have on their recent campaigns, including Windows 7 Sins and Bad Vista is that it does more harm than good. While I have great respect for the work done in the past on multiple fronts, including the GNU utilities, the GPL licenses and more, GNOME needs to be relevant now and respectful of our current and potential future users. Still, there is no real value in creating friction where it is not necessary. So, even if there is value in using the term Linux in some communications, it seems good to clarify if and when there are any situations where following the FSF recommendations are recommended. While we may choose to not use the term GNU/Linux, perhaps we could make an active effort to highlight GNU or the free software community in other ways? * Brian, I was curious about an earlier statement you made: since we are a GNU project - are we? What does that mean? Looking at the gnu.org http://gnu.org website and fsf.org http://fsf.org GNOME is not mentioned once. Searching on gnu.org http://gnu.org, the first search result that mentions GNOME is a 10 year old press release around GNOME 1.0. What is our formal relationship with the FSF and GNU? The G in GNOME stands for GNU. So, the people who created GNOME felt it was important to be under the GNU Umbrella of projects and that our project would be a shining example of a free software project. :) http://directory.fsf.org/project/gnome/ http://www.gnome.org/about/ My point is that we are being asked (or recommended) that we following their naming guidelines. My point is how does the FSF respect GNOME - I am wiling to bet $100 a normal user couldn't find the http://directory.fsf.org/project/gnome/ link - you have to go their searchable database from a very small Resources link in the middle bottom of their page and manually put in GNOME. Our desktop environment is arguably the 3rd most popular in the world after Windows and Mac OS X (thanks Ubuntu!) yet that's not mentioned anywhere on websites run by the FSF. Unfortunately, irony in my original email doesn't communicate well. Quoting from the last link: GNOME is... Free GNOME is Free Software and part of the GNU project, dedicated to giving users and developers the ultimate level of control over their desktops, their software, and their data. Find out more about the GNU project and Free Software at gnu.org. In fact, I believe one of the reasons why GNOME replaced KDE as the most popular software desktop on free/open operating systems is because of its free licensing. So, the current popularity that we enjoy is due, in part, to our relationship with the free software community and the FSF. So, perhaps we should honor that it some ways. Yes, I remember the issues with Trolltech licenses 10 years ago. Those are my long answers. My short answer - I agree with Andre, and I prefer reality. I look forward to hearing the Advisory Board's recommendation as well. Yes, I think this is an issue that a lot of people have already made strong opinions about, which probably makes it hard to think things through very well. So, I think we need to be a bit careful as we consider this topic to not jump to any quick conclusions. But, the fact that the lead of GNOME Marketing is not aware that GNOME is a GNU project is probably a symptom of a larger problem - that we do not do a very good job of promoting the free software aspects of our overall ethic. And regardless of what terminology we use for Linux or GNU/Linux, we probably should work to improve that. I understand our history, and am even presenting on it next week. Let me re-phrase the question: What exactly is a GNU Project? What implications does that tie GNOME to the FSF, who, in my opinion, despite everything they have done over the last 25 years, are earning themselves a negative reputation with poorly conceived campaigns like Windows 7 Sins? As someone mentioned to me earlier today, we
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
Paul: My point is that we are being asked (or recommended) that we following their naming guidelines. My point is how does the FSF respect GNOME - I am wiling to bet $100 a normal user couldn't find the http://directory.fsf.org/project/gnome/ link - you have to go their searchable database from a very small Resources link in the middle bottom of their page and manually put in GNOME. Our desktop environment is arguably the 3rd most popular in the world after Windows and Mac OS X (thanks Ubuntu!) yet that's not mentioned anywhere on websites run by the FSF. Unfortunately, irony in my original email doesn't communicate well. A fair point. If this is a concern, though, have we made any efforts to ask (or recommend) that the FSF do something to address this? I would be happy to bring this up with the FSF if we are interested in seeing what can be done to make GNOME more visible on their website. I understand our history, and am even presenting on it next week. Let me re-phrase the question: What exactly is a GNU Project? What implications does that tie GNOME to the FSF, I am not sure I am the best person to answer that question, really. Having said that, I would say that the FSF defines GNU licensing, which is the licensing we primarily use in our software. So, as you probably know, there is some connection. who, in my opinion, despite everything they have done over the last 25 years, are earning themselves a negative reputation with poorly conceived campaigns like Windows 7 Sins? As someone mentioned to me earlier today, we can have free licensing and free software without having to be a part of the FSF. Of course, we have the freedom to disagree with the FSF and to choose to not follow certain recommendations, or to not support FSF projects that we feel are damaging. I was never trying to suggest otherwise. In bringing up this topic, I am not trying to suggest that we do not already do a lot to promote those values we share with the FSF. For example, we are responsible for distributing a tremendously successful GNU licensed desktop which, as you highlight, is very successful - the 3rd most popular in the world. This, in and of itself, is probably the most significant thing that we already do to promote those values. We also do things like promote Software Freedom Day, do things like the Women's Outreach Program, and many other things. Perhaps what we do already is enough, and we need do no more. While I am jealous of their ability to market campaigns and the funding they have available, especially being a member of the GNOME marketing team, my recommendation would be to distance ourselves from the FSF rather than get closer. I do not think this is a black and white issue. While there may be certain aspects of the FSF that we may choose to distance ourselves from, there are also many shared values that do connect us. I wish I could remember the blog post, article, or talk that was given that pointed out that GNOME may have been an acronym 10 years ago when founded, but it's not applicable today. John Palmieri in his talk at GUADEC and recent GNOME Journal article argues the same thing that the N for Network doesn't apply either I am more than aware of what the acronym is, thank you very much. I apologize, I did not mean for my jibe to be taken badly, much the same way you did not mean for your irony to go unnoticed. I think you are doing a great job with GNOME marketing, and the improvements since you have been involved have been simply tremendous. As I stated above, and I'll re-phrase, is there a perceived connotation of being part of the FSF by having the word GNU in GNOME? I would not say that GNOME is a part of the FSF - they are a separate organization. Though we do obviously have a relationship. Without knowing what doors might be opened by tightening our relationship with the FSF, I believe that the risks do not outweigh the benefits of being associated with the FSF and I do not have a strong urge to use their naming conventions in GNOME materials. Personally, I would prefer to focus on those values that we share and work towards improving relationship in those areas, rather than focus on those areas where we disagree. I was just trying to ask a question about what terminology the marketing team recommends. I have not talked with the FSF about what opportunities might exist if we were to work towards improving our relationship with them. Without having such a discussion with them, it seems hard to know. Though if we think we should distance ourselves from them, then we may not be in a constructive place to have any such discussion. But, just to clarify, are you saying that you recommend that the GNOME community not use the term GNU/Linux in all contexts or just in marketing materials? Are you suggesting that using the term GNU/Linux is damaging like the examples you give of the Windows 7 Sins and should be avoided? Do
Re: Theme for Summit 2009, need everyone's feedback
Get Freedom with GNOME? Stormy On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Pockey Lam poc...@beijinglug.org wrote: Dear Stormy, I vote for Freedom with GNOME too, but a minor suggestion, can we add a call for action in the slogan? like Step into Freedom with GNOME? step into maybe a bit long, but any 1 word means the same? :) Thanks, Pockey On Fri, 2009-09-18 at 10:24 -0600, Stormy Peters wrote: I vote for Freedom with GNOME. My second choice would be something with a subtitle. Discover GNOME: Your Free Desktop. I'm not sure I'd use the word accessible in the title. At least in English it's not an easy word to say. And obviously I'd like to defer to people that know the local language and culture ... Stormy P.S. Brian, I think we could add the word software to your title, and don't forget usability! Discover Accessing Freedom With Easy-to-Use GNOME - Your Free Software Desktop On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Brian Cameron brian.came...@sun.com wrote: Emily: How about Discover Accessing Freedom With GNOME - Your Desktop Just joking. Brian 1. Discover GNOME 3.0 2. Discover GNOME 3. Discover GNOME - Your Accessible Desktop 4. Discover GNOME - The Accessible Desktop 5. Discover GNOME - Access Your Desktop 6. Access Your Desktop - Discover GNOME 7. Discover your desktop with GNOME 8. Access your desktop with GNOME 9. GNOME your desktop 10.Freedom with GNOME more ... Thanks, Emily ___ asia-summit-list mailing list asia-summit-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/asia-summit-list ___ asia-summit-list mailing list asia-summit-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/asia-summit-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FSF, terminology, and marketing
On 9/18/09 3:40 PM, Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net wrote: Am Freitag, den 18.09.2009, 17:07 -0500 schrieb Brian Cameron: The Free Software Foundation (FSF) encourages the usage of the term GNU/Linux instead of the term Linux, and also discourages referring to free software and licenses as open source. Thoughts? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy My very personal opinion: There's a reality out there, and there's the fundamentalists of the FSF. I prefer reality. I'm not in favor of complicating terminology, especially when it makes life more involved and in need of explanation. I don't want to be talking to a reporter and find myself being asked: I've heard of _Linux_... What's _GNU/Linux_? I don't feel obligated to support this FSF's reasoning (with which I happen to disagree) in this matter. Let's not (again) make the sort of mistake of marketing to ourselves that I talked about at GCDS: this brouhaha over names, which is really about who's getting credit, means less than nothing to the world at large, the folks to whom we _should_ be marketing. If the FSF can somehow persuade people at large to start calling it GNU/Linux after having failed to do so for going on two decades, fine, but I don't see that we need to stake that position out for our own. Similarly, I'd be very unhappy if we were to make the term open source unwelcome. I'm more than happy to keep good relations with the FSF, all other things being equal, but if becoming a subscriber to terminology wars--something which, again, means nothing to our target audience--then I wonder whether all other things are equal... -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
