Re: What keywords would you use for GNOME?

2010-02-09 Thread Claus Schwarm 
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 17:51 -0500, Diego Escalante Urrelo wrote:
> El mar, 09-02-2010 a las 12:13 +0100, Claus Schwarm escribió:
> > 
> > For this, we would need at least
> > 
> >   * a second url (say, "www.gnome.org/b/friends") for a variation of the
> > friends page (and maybe related pages)
> 
> With extra information and the assumption that people coming there do
> not have any idea what's GNOME?
> 

Hi, Diego!

At first, the "www.gnome.org/b/friends" URL would be a full copy of
"www.gnome.org/friends".

In a second step, we would change whatever we think needs testing in
the /b/ URL. The original remains untouched. We'd then have two
variations of the same page.

Then, we would test copy and layout changes in the /b/ variation,
measure the effects on donations and if we find a statistical
difference, we implement the better variation.

Rinse, repeat.

For more information, see http://www.abtests.com/ for examples and case
studies.

For more information on Google Website Optimizer, see its homepage and
the tutorial videos.


Regards,
Claus




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Re: Friends of GNOME December & January Data

2010-02-09 Thread Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier 
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:56 PM, Paul Cutler  wrote:
> Is Piwik able to measure feed readers?

Generally no. Piwik uses JS to count up visitors, so it's not going to
"see" most people hitting the feeds. It *might* count some people
pulling a feed in a client like Thunderbird if it loads the actual
page.

I use Piwik and AWstats on my personal site. AWstats shows *far higher
traffic than Piwik.

Best,

Zonker

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Re: Friends of GNOME December & January Data

2010-02-09 Thread Paul Cutler 
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 18:47 -0700, Stormy Peters wrote:
> I can definitely post them on the Foundation blog. To be honest, I
> stopped doing that because I wasn't sure they got read there. Things
> on Planet obviously get a lot more visibility. We could do both. I can
> blog on the Foundation blog and people can continue to take turns
> talking about it on Planet ...
> 
> The Foundation blog is not syndicated on Planet because it isn't an
> individual ...
> 
> Stormy
> 
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Jaap A. Haitsma 
> wrote:
> Why not publish these things on the foundation blog. Because
> my
> experience is that these things don't work well if multiple
> people
> have to to it
> 
> If I were you I'd post the weekly updates you do also on that
> blog.
> 
> I believe that that blog is not on planet GNOME for some weird
> reason.
> 
> Jaap
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 19:58, Stormy Peters 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Jaap A. Haitsma
>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Stormy,
> >>
> >> I suggest you post these updates also to your blog as that
> probably
> >> leads to much more traffic to friends of GNOME instead of
> posting it
> >> here.
> >
> > I'd prefer that we had different people blog it every month.
> I don't really
> > want to promote this every month on my personal blog. (I
> have lots of
> > non-GNOME friends and people that read my blog and I think
> this is like
> > asking them for money every month and I already feel like I
> do that. :)
> >
> > Volunteers?
> >
> >>
> >> Maybe also nice if you can approach some friendly
> journalist that
> >> write an article about Friends of GNOME program etc. etc.
> >
> > I think we have a couple on this list ... all of us should
> talk about
> > Friends of GNOME whenever we can. And help others in the
> community to do so
> > as well.
> >
> > Stormy
> >
> 
> 

Do we have Piwik installed on both planet.gnome.org and news.gnome.org?
Is Piwik able to measure feed readers?

Paul

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Re: Friends of GNOME December & January Data

2010-02-09 Thread Stormy Peters 
I can definitely post them on the Foundation blog. To be honest, I stopped
doing that because I wasn't sure they got read there. Things on Planet
obviously get a lot more visibility. We could do both. I can blog on the
Foundation blog and people can continue to take turns talking about it on
Planet ...

The Foundation blog is not syndicated on Planet because it isn't an
individual ...

Stormy

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Jaap A. Haitsma  wrote:

> Why not publish these things on the foundation blog. Because my
> experience is that these things don't work well if multiple people
> have to to it
>
> If I were you I'd post the weekly updates you do also on that blog.
>
> I believe that that blog is not on planet GNOME for some weird reason.
>
> Jaap
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 19:58, Stormy Peters  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Jaap A. Haitsma 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Stormy,
> >>
> >> I suggest you post these updates also to your blog as that probably
> >> leads to much more traffic to friends of GNOME instead of posting it
> >> here.
> >
> > I'd prefer that we had different people blog it every month. I don't
> really
> > want to promote this every month on my personal blog. (I have lots of
> > non-GNOME friends and people that read my blog and I think this is like
> > asking them for money every month and I already feel like I do that. :)
> >
> > Volunteers?
> >
> >>
> >> Maybe also nice if you can approach some friendly journalist that
> >> write an article about Friends of GNOME program etc. etc.
> >
> > I think we have a couple on this list ... all of us should talk about
> > Friends of GNOME whenever we can. And help others in the community to do
> so
> > as well.
> >
> > Stormy
> >
>
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Re: GIMP Project

2010-02-09 Thread Stormy Peters 
We do work very closely with GIMP. The GNOME Foundation handles all their
monetary donations and payments for them, for example.

I did notice GIMP ads on Google and I was wondering if they have a separate
Google Grants account. Anyone know?

Stormy

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Nelson Marques <07...@ipam.pt> wrote:

>
>  Most likely people have already seen this, but here's a cool link for
> people to read:
>
>
>
> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2010/02/hands-on-new-single-window-mode-makes-gimp-less-gimpy.ars
>
>
>  I would assume everyone on this list at least heard before of GIMP, and
> it's most likely a premier tool on the GNOME Desktop.
>  I don't know if there's already someone from the list working close to
> GIMP development, but since this is an historical release, I would
> recommend that we offer them some help for the release if the list
> agree's too and I would suggest we cover either with GNOME Journal and
> with our institutional/community websites this release.
>
>  I don't quite understand why GIMP Project on their website seems so
> distant from the open source community without any links to other
> projects such as GNOME, KDE or whatever. I would understand not having
> KDE, but not having a GNOME link is kinda lame hence they GNOME GTK
> toolkit.
>
>  Anyway, we should be helpful towards them, because right after GNOME,
> it is most likely the most successful application using GNOME
> technology.
>
>   Any thoughts, ideas, etc ?
>
>   Nelson
>
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Re: back to the survey topic

2010-02-09 Thread Stormy Peters 
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Nelson Marques <07...@ipam.pt> wrote:

>
>
> I'm a openSuSE user (I know GNOME is sponsored mainly by Red Hat, but I
> don't like Fedora).


Red Hat and Novell are both advisory board members and both give $20,000 a
year to the GNOME Foundation. They also both contribute by paying people to
work full time on GNOME, sponsor hackfests and events like GUADEC.


> I've runned across a survery from SuSE which uses a
> commercial survey service, surveymonkey.
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com
> http://surveymonkey.com/s/6MJYV7T (openSuSE Survey)
>
>  I am not aware of software like this available as open source, don't
> know if anyone knows it.
>

Lime Survey is very good and it is open source.

Stormy
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introductions (was Re: )

2010-02-09 Thread will kahn-greene 

On 02/09/2010 04:49 PM, Nelson Marques wrote:

  I would like to ask one thing to this list, would it be possible for
people to introduce themselfs and say what is their role around on the
list?

  Thanks in advance.


I'm Will Kahn-Greene.  I think I introduced myself a couple of weeks 
ago.  I work for Participatory Culture Foundation  
on Miro  and curate the Gnome Miro Community 
.


I'm on this list to help with indexing/curating video about Gnome 
conferences, projects, development, marketing, and such so that users, 
developers, and other interested parties can find it, watch it, and 
better participate in Gnome-related things.


/will
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Re: No Subject

2010-02-09 Thread Andre Klapper 
Am Dienstag, den 09.02.2010, 21:49 + schrieb Nelson Marques:
> I would like to ask one thing to this list, would it be possible for
> people to introduce themselfs and say what is their role around on the
> list?

On a general note I assume that a few people have a Personal GNOME
Wikipage (same goes for me): http://live.gnome.org/CategoryHomepage .
Might be a starting point for quickly looking up names...

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Re: Fwd: Fundraising / Donations

2010-02-09 Thread Diego Escalante Urrelo 
El lun, 08-02-2010 a las 16:15 -0700, Stormy Peters escribió:
> I think it's an excellent offer and I definitely plan on saying
> thanks.
> 
> The question is, do we want to promote? I think we should ...
> 

A badge? Like the FoG thing. We announce it together with some buttons
and ask people to blog it.

Maybe associate this with this idea: "all it takes to help gnome is to
text" or "text gnome some help".

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Re: What keywords would you use for GNOME?

2010-02-09 Thread Diego Escalante Urrelo 
El mar, 09-02-2010 a las 12:13 +0100, Claus Schwarm escribió:
> 
> For this, we would need at least
> 
>   * a second url (say, "www.gnome.org/b/friends") for a variation of the
> friends page (and maybe related pages)

With extra information and the assumption that people coming there do
not have any idea what's GNOME?

Stormy's post about this is interesting

http://www.stormyscorner.com/2010/02/what-free-and-open-source-software-projects-can-learn-from-social-networking-and-fundraising.html

Particularly this:
So, for instance instead of saying "Donate to keep this project
sustainable," one could say "We need to build out XYZ, can you
pay for ONE line of code to go to that project? Our estimate is
that it'll take X lines of code."

No good idea for the wording, but I'm sure we can use the line of code
per N dollars idea. Even with a ruler for each quarter or release cycle.
Although this is a bit off topic for this thread maybe.

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Re:

2010-02-09 Thread Diego Escalante Urrelo 
El mar, 09-02-2010 a las 21:49 +, Nelson Marques escribió:
> I would like to ask one thing to this list, would it be possible for
> people to introduce themselfs and say what is their role around on the
> list?
> 
>  Thanks in advance.

I'm Diego, I'm currently serving in the Board of Directors and do some
hacking for Epiphany, Epiphany Extensions and sporadically in other
modules. You can also read some self descriptions in
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/MarketingTeam

click on their wiki-names.

ps: don't forget to include subjects in your emails.

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[no subject]

2010-02-09 Thread Nelson Marques 
 I would like to ask one thing to this list, would it be possible for
people to introduce themselfs and say what is their role around on the
list?

 Thanks in advance.


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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Michael Hasselmann 
Hi,

Am Dienstag, den 09.02.2010, 14:15 -0500 schrieb Joe 'Zonker'
Brockmeier:
> Does Alfresco provide a hosted solution? Maybe one of the free
> software CMS/ECM providers would want to support the project by giving
> us a turnkey hosted solution? Seeing as we wouldn't be hammering the
> hell out of the servers, it would probably give them more exposure
> than it would cost in resources.

For both products there seem to be "SaaS" (Software-as-a-Service aka
hosted solutions) offers:

http://www.alfresco.com/partners/hosting/
http://knowledgetree.com/products/saas (called KnowledgeTreeLive) 

regards,
Michael

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Re: back to the survey topic

2010-02-09 Thread Nelson Marques 
I withdraw what I said. I understod his comment based on not liking
Fedora which is related to RedHat.

I based my comment on the fact that RedHat/Fedora being the ones giving
most relevance to GNOME, and obviously because I was misinformed.

peace


On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 14:55 -0600, Paul Cutler wrote:
> Nelson
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 20:25 +, Nelson Marques wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 20:38 +0100, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Am Dienstag, den 09.02.2010, 19:12 + schrieb Nelson Marques:
> > > > (I know GNOME is sponsored mainly by Red Hat, but I don't like Fedora).
> > > In general I'd be very careful with such statements, as "mainly" is
> > > highly subjective, plus lots of companies are listed on
> > > http://foundation.gnome.org/about/advisoryboard/ for your information.
> > 
> > 
> >  Come on. I am entitled to my personal opinion, and I'm am not in GNOME
> > representation. I am just a contributor who wants to help. 
> > 
> >  "Free as in Freedom of Speech (...)" - Richard Stallman.
> > 
> > 
> 
> And what Andre is saying, correctly, is that the statement (or opinion)
> of "I know GNOME is sponsored mainly by Red Hat" is not factually
> correct.
> 
> GNOME is sponsored by many companies in many different ways, and saying
> "mainly" is not correct.
> 
> 
> 
> Paul



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Re: back to the survey topic

2010-02-09 Thread Paul Cutler 
Nelson


On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 20:25 +, Nelson Marques wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 20:38 +0100, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Am Dienstag, den 09.02.2010, 19:12 + schrieb Nelson Marques:
> > > (I know GNOME is sponsored mainly by Red Hat, but I don't like Fedora).
> > In general I'd be very careful with such statements, as "mainly" is
> > highly subjective, plus lots of companies are listed on
> > http://foundation.gnome.org/about/advisoryboard/ for your information.
> 
> 
>  Come on. I am entitled to my personal opinion, and I'm am not in GNOME
> representation. I am just a contributor who wants to help. 
> 
>  "Free as in Freedom of Speech (...)" - Richard Stallman.
> 
> 

And what Andre is saying, correctly, is that the statement (or opinion)
of "I know GNOME is sponsored mainly by Red Hat" is not factually
correct.

GNOME is sponsored by many companies in many different ways, and saying
"mainly" is not correct.



Paul

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Re: Reviving FootNotes?

2010-02-09 Thread Luis Medinas 
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 01:37 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
> Le lundi 08 février 2010, à 10:56 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit :
> > Good on you!  It's a good time to do it since we want to get GNOME 3 out
> > there.  However, it would be nice to do those GNOME summaries that I used to
> > do before going on to GNOME Journal.  It's a very hard job unfortunately and
> > requires someone dedicated to reading a lot of mailing lists.
> 
> Note that the commit digest blog is a good basis:
>  http://blogs.gnome.org/commitdigest/
> 
I agree with Vincent, the commit digest is a good point i don't think
many people read it since it isn't much spread in the net. But Footnotes
picking this would take new GNOME features to a new level.
Also i think that a weekly summary of PGO would be interesting
(regarding GNOME NEWS, not personal opinions).

I volunteer myself to help in one of these tasks.

Luis

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Re: back to the survey topic

2010-02-09 Thread Nelson Marques 


On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 20:38 +0100, Andre Klapper wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Am Dienstag, den 09.02.2010, 19:12 + schrieb Nelson Marques:
> > (I know GNOME is sponsored mainly by Red Hat, but I don't like Fedora).
> In general I'd be very careful with such statements, as "mainly" is
> highly subjective, plus lots of companies are listed on
> http://foundation.gnome.org/about/advisoryboard/ for your information.


 Come on. I am entitled to my personal opinion, and I'm am not in GNOME
representation. I am just a contributor who wants to help. 

 "Free as in Freedom of Speech (...)" - Richard Stallman.


> 
> >   I've also found some statistical open source programs meanwhile, this
> > means that there is no need to use SPSS (IBM) or any other proprietary
> > chunk of code.
> 
> ...which are? :-)

 PSPP > http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/ > Way more powerfull than SPSS
 R > http://www.r-project.org/ > Not tested it, but looks functional and
neat
 OpenStat > http://statpages.org/miller/openstat/

 There's way more available if you search google. This are just some of
them. PSPP is what I recommend as I've been looking deep into it and
going to replace SPSS soon once I test compatibility.

> 
> andre
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Re: Friends of GNOME December & January Data

2010-02-09 Thread Jaap A. Haitsma 
Why not publish these things on the foundation blog. Because my
experience is that these things don't work well if multiple people
have to to it

If I were you I'd post the weekly updates you do also on that blog.

I believe that that blog is not on planet GNOME for some weird reason.

Jaap

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 19:58, Stormy Peters  wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Jaap A. Haitsma  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stormy,
>>
>> I suggest you post these updates also to your blog as that probably
>> leads to much more traffic to friends of GNOME instead of posting it
>> here.
>
> I'd prefer that we had different people blog it every month. I don't really
> want to promote this every month on my personal blog. (I have lots of
> non-GNOME friends and people that read my blog and I think this is like
> asking them for money every month and I already feel like I do that. :)
>
> Volunteers?
>
>>
>> Maybe also nice if you can approach some friendly journalist that
>> write an article about Friends of GNOME program etc. etc.
>
> I think we have a couple on this list ... all of us should talk about
> Friends of GNOME whenever we can. And help others in the community to do so
> as well.
>
> Stormy
>
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Re: back to the survey topic

2010-02-09 Thread Andre Klapper 
Hi,

Am Dienstag, den 09.02.2010, 19:12 + schrieb Nelson Marques:
> (I know GNOME is sponsored mainly by Red Hat, but I don't like Fedora).

In general I'd be very careful with such statements, as "mainly" is
highly subjective, plus lots of companies are listed on
http://foundation.gnome.org/about/advisoryboard/ for your information.

>   I've also found some statistical open source programs meanwhile, this
> means that there is no need to use SPSS (IBM) or any other proprietary
> chunk of code.

...which are? :-)

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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier 
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Michael Hasselmann
 wrote:
> Technically, Alfresco is likely to scale better (KT is implemented in
> PHP IIRC). But I found KT to be more newcomer-friendly. Both are OK to
> set up, though it might take a while if you have no Tomcat server
> already.

Does Alfresco provide a hosted solution? Maybe one of the free
software CMS/ECM providers would want to support the project by giving
us a turnkey hosted solution? Seeing as we wouldn't be hammering the
hell out of the servers, it would probably give them more exposure
than it would cost in resources.

Best,

Zonker
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back to the survey topic

2010-02-09 Thread Nelson Marques 



Hi all,

I'm a openSuSE user (I know GNOME is sponsored mainly by Red Hat, but I
don't like Fedora). I've runned across a survery from SuSE which uses a
commercial survey service, surveymonkey.

http://www.surveymonkey.com
http://surveymonkey.com/s/6MJYV7T (openSuSE Survey)

 I am not aware of software like this available as open source, don't
know if anyone knows it.

 This surveymonkey is interesting, and I've spoken in the past that such
platform could be helpfull not only for GNOME Marketing, but to our
developers and even to outsource to other projects, or even use to make
money to support GNOME.

 In addition it would most likely allow us to extend a hand to GNOME
distributors like RedHat, openSuSE, Mandriva and so on, and eventually
we can promote our brande with other brands, like hardware manufacturers
and such. I would recon the would be skepticism about this and the
proprietary would jump into play again, so, not being a developer myself
and being a marketing personality, I would point the following: don't
all opensource system run on top of proprietary microcode (EFI, Legacy
BIOS, etc)? Just a thought.

  Feel free to comment and suggest as on next meeting this will be one
of the things I will be bringing up.

  I would love to have such a tool available so we could run our stuff,
ge our numbers and implement a real marketing driver project towards
specific goals, and of course support all our developers with usefull
information regarding whatever they need.

  I've also found some statistical open source programs meanwhile, this
means that there is no need to use SPSS (IBM) or any other proprietary
chunk of code.

  Nelson.


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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Michael Hasselmann 
Hi!

Am Dienstag, den 09.02.2010, 14:37 +0100 schrieb Dave Neary:
> Alfresco/Jahia/Nuxeo/KnowledgeTree, maybe?

I can recommend both Alfresco and KT, whereas Nuxeo also seemed OK when
I last checked it (been a while). The thing is, git is not really a
document management solution. Alfresco and KT offer powerful full-text
indexing for each word document/PDF you upload (using heuristics to find
*meaningful* keywords). Alfresco allows fine-grained ACLs, too whereas
KT allows easy customisation because of its widgets-on-a-dashboard
approach (layouting can all be done with a website so one could easily
create dossiers from existing documents).

Technically, Alfresco is likely to scale better (KT is implemented in
PHP IIRC). But I found KT to be more newcomer-friendly. Both are OK to
set up, though it might take a while if you have no Tomcat server
already.

regards,
Michael

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GIMP Project

2010-02-09 Thread Nelson Marques 

 Most likely people have already seen this, but here's a cool link for
people to read:


http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2010/02/hands-on-new-single-window-mode-makes-gimp-less-gimpy.ars

 
 I would assume everyone on this list at least heard before of GIMP, and
it's most likely a premier tool on the GNOME Desktop.
 I don't know if there's already someone from the list working close to
GIMP development, but since this is an historical release, I would
recommend that we offer them some help for the release if the list
agree's too and I would suggest we cover either with GNOME Journal and
with our institutional/community websites this release.

  I don't quite understand why GIMP Project on their website seems so
distant from the open source community without any links to other
projects such as GNOME, KDE or whatever. I would understand not having
KDE, but not having a GNOME link is kinda lame hence they GNOME GTK
toolkit.

  Anyway, we should be helpful towards them, because right after GNOME,
it is most likely the most successful application using GNOME
technology.

   Any thoughts, ideas, etc ?

   Nelson

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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Nelson Marques 


On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 16:27 +0100, Dave Neary wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
> > More pain on our side, less pain on the side of the contributors who
> > aren't developer tool friendly.
> 
> Yes and no... one more account to create, or moderation request to wait
> for - one more bottleneck to get through before you're productive. For
> reference, see how long it has taken some of the members of the
> marketing team to go from volunteering to help maintain the web pages to
> actually getting access to the resources (in one case, there's still a
> request in a queue somewhere awaiting an SSH key).
> 
> > You outlined 6 steps that a new
> > contributor would go through in order to participate.
> 
> Well, really the 6 steps contains 2 really important ones - getting git
> & getting the marketing resources. As I said, it's a cheat sheet - the
> other commands you only need from time to time, and the git problem is
> memorising everything.

 Those using a POSIX compliant system like Linux or *BSD would probably
manage to run a local depot and a simple crontab script to update it
every X minutes if needed.

  Eventually there are also GNOME/GTK clients for git which would cut
much of the command line pressure for some people.

  And eventually, we could make a proposal of a GNOME project to the
developers list to create a more robust GUI git client, which would not
only serve us, but the entire community and we could integrate it easily
with GNOME and make a part of it.

  I would recon that most people see Marketing as a sales force, which
is actually not correct. Marketing goes far beyond that idea. When
people are sick, they go to the doctors. When an organization is sick,
they turn to Marketing, which is actually a set of tools and processes
that allow you diagnose and treat the "illness". 

  Just as a curiosity, how would GNOME developers see a Marketing
Developing Plan for a new application? Would they be cool enough to
follow a roadmap and a script or would just they see it as an attack of
the bureaucrats ?

  Nelson

> 
> > Some may be that
> > motivated, others are likely to quietly decide that another project
> > might be better suited to their free time.
> 
> So be it.
> 
> As I say
> here:http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/04/08/copyright-assignment-and-other-barriers-to-entry/
> 
> some barriers to entry are desirable. Others aren't.
> 
> In general, I would say that for any task where the commandline isn't
> otherwise necessary, avoid the command line. So a natural graphic way to
> get git and download & update files from git is probably useful, but
> there's no inherent reason why we'd need Alfresco.
> 
> We could also use the Ubuntu One cloud, or DropBox... obviously, I
> prefer we don't, because they're proprietary software, but at least
> there the "hard to use" argument is less evident.
> 
> > Not disagreeing that wiki attachments are sub-optimal, but I'm not
> > sure git is any better for sharing something like an OpenOffice.org
> > document.
> 
> Sharing a document is probably best done as a wiki page, or in Google
> Docs or Zoho. Sharing the actual .odt doesn't make any sense to me, any
> more than it made sense to me back in the day, when project specs were
> sent as .doc attachments by email.
> 
> If documents need regular revision, then you need something which allows
> collaborative editing & has version control. A wiki, a BaseCamp
> writeboard, or Google Docs (or an equivalent), or (if it ever gets
> released) the rumored web-hosted OOo would all fit the bill.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave.
> 
> -- 
> Dave Neary
> GNOME Foundation member
> dne...@gnome.org
> -- 
> marketing-list mailing list
> marketing-list@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list


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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Nelson Marques 


On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 18:26 -0600, Paul Cutler wrote:
> Hi Marketing Team!
> 
> One of the topics I'd like to discuss in Saturday's team meeting is:
> 
> Do we want to use GNOME's git repository for marketing materials?

 I would assume that having a repository for marketing materials is a
great achievement by itself. This is a great step to improve
communication and productivity.

 About git itself, it's a powerful tool, maybe too powerful for some of
us. It's easy to use, allows us to make a normal repository locally and
eventually for those who would like to use graphical tools, there are
available for GNOME.
 Eventually those who use Linux can setup a couple of easy crontab
scripts to run at one's flavour and keep the local repository mirror
updated.

 For me, it's a sane choice, though I would recon that maybe for most
people it's way too powerful.

 Someone mentioned google docs. That's a neat tool and it's quite good
aswell, though I would be considering Google's privacy policy which
isn't exactly better than Microsoft or other "evil" companies.

 As a user I would probably consider this the most important points:

 1. Easy of access
 2. Indexing
 3. Version control, which can be actually easier to control is there is
a maintainer for each. This would be easily achieved if the submitter
maintained their own docs (even if we use a note to keep track of
version).

  About formats, I would acknowledge that most people will be using
OpenOffice and other open software, so it really should be easy.

 
   Any option you guys decide is good for me. I do have internet
availability 24 hours per day, so I really don't care which system we
use.

   Someone spoke in another email about access and stuff. This is not
something that is marketing related, but OpenLDAP can actually provide a
good platform to maintain lots of different systems/platforms/appliances
for authentication, and it's quite stable and trustable, allows
replication and easy to install/manage.

   -- my 2 cents

   Nelson.

> 
> What made me think of it is I was working on the FAQ for volunteers
> hosting a GNOME booth[1] that we started at the hackfest last Nov.  It
> looks pretty enough in the wiki, but it's really not ready for someone
> to just print and go with.
> 
> There are a number of advantages and dis-advantages to using git that I
> can think of off the top of my head:
> 
> Pro's:
> 
> * Easier to keep marketing materials up to date (multiple editors,
> revision control)
> * Can have multiple copies (OpenOffice.org, PDF, etc)
> * Better formatting than the wiki
> * Personal opinion: easier than managing on the wiki / live.gnome.org
> (we have attachments in a few different places)
> 
> 
> Cons:
> 
> * Might need to learn git  (though we can document how to do a git clone
> on the wiki)
> * Storing all marketing materials in one git repo could be a large
> download the first time as the user would get all materials, not just
> one
> * Volunteer would need to have git installed
> 
> Thoughts?  I don't know if we need an answer right away, or if we'll
> have a quorum in the meeting Saturday, but I'd be curious to hear what
> people think.
> 
> Paul
> 
> [1] http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/ConferenceMaterial/BoothFAQ
> 
> -- 
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> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list


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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Dave Neary 
Hi,

Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
> More pain on our side, less pain on the side of the contributors who
> aren't developer tool friendly.

Yes and no... one more account to create, or moderation request to wait
for - one more bottleneck to get through before you're productive. For
reference, see how long it has taken some of the members of the
marketing team to go from volunteering to help maintain the web pages to
actually getting access to the resources (in one case, there's still a
request in a queue somewhere awaiting an SSH key).

> You outlined 6 steps that a new
> contributor would go through in order to participate.

Well, really the 6 steps contains 2 really important ones - getting git
& getting the marketing resources. As I said, it's a cheat sheet - the
other commands you only need from time to time, and the git problem is
memorising everything.

> Some may be that
> motivated, others are likely to quietly decide that another project
> might be better suited to their free time.

So be it.

As I say
here:http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/04/08/copyright-assignment-and-other-barriers-to-entry/

some barriers to entry are desirable. Others aren't.

In general, I would say that for any task where the commandline isn't
otherwise necessary, avoid the command line. So a natural graphic way to
get git and download & update files from git is probably useful, but
there's no inherent reason why we'd need Alfresco.

We could also use the Ubuntu One cloud, or DropBox... obviously, I
prefer we don't, because they're proprietary software, but at least
there the "hard to use" argument is less evident.

> Not disagreeing that wiki attachments are sub-optimal, but I'm not
> sure git is any better for sharing something like an OpenOffice.org
> document.

Sharing a document is probably best done as a wiki page, or in Google
Docs or Zoho. Sharing the actual .odt doesn't make any sense to me, any
more than it made sense to me back in the day, when project specs were
sent as .doc attachments by email.

If documents need regular revision, then you need something which allows
collaborative editing & has version control. A wiki, a BaseCamp
writeboard, or Google Docs (or an equivalent), or (if it ever gets
released) the rumored web-hosted OOo would all fit the bill.

Cheers,
Dave.

-- 
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GNOME Foundation member
dne...@gnome.org
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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Shaun McCance 
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 08:44 -0500, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
> > Alfresco/Jahia/Nuxeo/KnowledgeTree, maybe? But adding more
> > infrastructure seems like a pain. In any case, wiki attachments sucks
> > for collaboratively working on anything, esp. documents.
> 
> More pain on our side, less pain on the side of the contributors who
> aren't developer tool friendly. You outlined 6 steps that a new
> contributor would go through in order to participate. Some may be that
> motivated, others are likely to quietly decide that another project
> might be better suited to their free time.
> 
> Not disagreeing that wiki attachments are sub-optimal, but I'm not
> sure git is any better for sharing something like an OpenOffice.org
> document.

Surely they wouldn't need git just to download the materials.
Can't we just have links in the wiki to download over the
web from cgit?

-- 
Shaun McCance
http://syllogist.net/

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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Stormy Peters 
I agree with Zonker.

Everybody I've tried to talk into joining the marketing list would have been
discouraged or intimidated by the git process.

Stormy

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
> > Alfresco/Jahia/Nuxeo/KnowledgeTree, maybe? But adding more
> > infrastructure seems like a pain. In any case, wiki attachments sucks
> > for collaboratively working on anything, esp. documents.
>
> More pain on our side, less pain on the side of the contributors who
> aren't developer tool friendly. You outlined 6 steps that a new
> contributor would go through in order to participate. Some may be that
> motivated, others are likely to quietly decide that another project
> might be better suited to their free time.
>
> Not disagreeing that wiki attachments are sub-optimal, but I'm not
> sure git is any better for sharing something like an OpenOffice.org
> document.
>
> Best,
>
> Zonker
> --
> Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier 
> About: http://www.dissociatedpress.net/about/
> --
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>
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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier 
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
> Alfresco/Jahia/Nuxeo/KnowledgeTree, maybe? But adding more
> infrastructure seems like a pain. In any case, wiki attachments sucks
> for collaboratively working on anything, esp. documents.

More pain on our side, less pain on the side of the contributors who
aren't developer tool friendly. You outlined 6 steps that a new
contributor would go through in order to participate. Some may be that
motivated, others are likely to quietly decide that another project
might be better suited to their free time.

Not disagreeing that wiki attachments are sub-optimal, but I'm not
sure git is any better for sharing something like an OpenOffice.org
document.

Best,

Zonker
-- 
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About: http://www.dissociatedpress.net/about/
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Re: Marketing Materials in git

2010-02-09 Thread Dave Neary 
Hi,

Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
> I'm not sure i"ll be able to make the meeting Saturday, but I do want
> to chime in on this. Having some form of central repository and/or
> some kind of revision control is a great idea. But I think git is just
> a wee bit too developer focused to be comfortable for a lot of people
> we might hope to attract to the marketing team. I'm sure some folks on
> this list have strong tech skills and strong marketing skills, but
> that's not the norm.

All RCSes are developer focused.

What you need for GIT is the same thing we needed for svn and cvs - a
cheat sheet for people who don't want to do anything other than
centralised version control:

0. To install Git on your system, run: (Ubuntu, Debian, OpenSuse &
Fedora instructions/package names included:

1. To get a copy of GNOME marketing materials in a local directory
called gnome-marketing, run the following command:

2. To update your local copy to see the latest changes, run this command:

3. To commit changes to a file in the directory that you have edited,
run the following command:

4. To add/delete a file from version control, use this command:

5. To see the changes people have made in the past, run:

6. To browse the source code online, go to:

7. For a GUI git client, try:

> What can we use that would be better suited for a non-technical
> audience that might meet the same goals?

Alfresco/Jahia/Nuxeo/KnowledgeTree, maybe? But adding more
infrastructure seems like a pain. In any case, wiki attachments sucks
for collaboratively working on anything, esp. documents.

Cheers,
Dave.

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Re: What keywords would you use for GNOME?

2010-02-09 Thread Claus Schwarm 
Hi, Stormy!

This sounds cool. 

It's probably better to use more keywords like [free software desktop]
than [free software]: in the later, probably more people mean "free" as
in beer, not "free" according to Stallman.

However, the landing page probably could need some improvements, too. I
sure have some ideas but we need to test them.

For this, we would need at least

  * a second url (say, "www.gnome.org/b/friends") for a variation of the
friends page (and maybe related pages)
  * Google website optimizer for running the experiment and tracking

It that's in place, we could follow the route set by the successful text
in the ads and use more social proof on the landing page.


Regards,
Claus


On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 13:51 -0700, Stormy Peters wrote:
> Hi Claus,
> 
> I put all the open source keyword terms in their own ad group with the
> new ad you created. We'll see how it does.
> 
> FYI, I had $229/day in the Friends of GNOME category and we are now
> spending it all. It is not however translating to even $229/day in
> additional donations, so we might want to rethink our landing page.
> (Maybe we want to focus on awareness or other things as well.)
> 
> Most ($226.63) of the hits come from the keyword "free software".
> Yesterday we got 16,223 impressions, 296 clicks for a clickthrough
> rate of 1.82% (which is good.)
> 
> We get an even better quality rating and click through rate (4.02%)
> for the keyword "free software desktop". We had 323 impressions on
> that and 13 clicks. (I assume there are just that many fewer people
> searching on free software desktop or we'd have more.)
> 
> The ad that is shown in both cases is:
> 
> A Free Software Desktop
> Join us in Supporting GNOME, the
> Free Software Desktop Project.
> www.gnome.org/friends
> 
> Ideas for a different landing page? It seems like we are driving a lot
> of traffic this way and we could use it better ... Maybe we could even
> ask them to sign a page showing their support. And sign up for a
> mailing list to hear our news in the future.
> 
> What do people think?
> 
> Stormy
> 
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Claus Schwarm
>  wrote:
> Stormy,
> 
> glad I could help.
> 
> You may also like to consider to add a new ad group "Open
> Source",
> link it to the friends page,
> and use the following copy:
> 
>An Open Source Desktop
>Join us in Supporting GNOME, the
> 
>Open Source Desktop Project.
>www.gnome.org/friends
> 
> for all keywords including the term 'Open Source'. This may
> not only
> drive up the CTR for key phrases such as "Open Source
> Foundation" but
> also for the "Free Software" ad group, since it's going to be
> more
> targeted.
> 
> Just an idea; maybe it works.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Claus
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Stormy Peters
>  wrote:
> > Claus,
> >
> > Your idea had tremendous success!
> >
> > With the new ad displaying for the campaign group of free
> software users we
> > immediately got more clicks from <20/day to 29 the day I
> added it to 85 so
> > far today for a click through rate of .83%. (We also got an
> additional 43
> > clicks on the "Join the Free Desktop" for a click through
> rate of .37%. I'm
> > going to pause that one. I already paused the "Become a
> Friend of GNOME" add
> > for this campaign group.)
> >
> > Stormy
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:34 AM, Claus Schwarm
> 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi!
> >>
> >> Provided the keywords are remotely related to the product
> being
> >> advertised, CTR is not so muched determined by the
> keywords, but by
> >> the copy and its interaction with the keywords.
> >>
> >> Example 1:
> >>
> >> Someone searching for "debian gnome" is really unlikely to
> click on an
> >> ad for a women outreach program.
> >>
> >>
> >> Example 2:
> >>
> >> The copy for the keyword "free software" doesn't repeat it
> in the
> >> header. Instead of writing:
> >>
> >>Join the Free Desktop
> >>Support GNOME, the Free Software
> >>Desktop Accessible to Everyone.
> >>www.gnome.org/friends
> >>
> >> you should test:
> >>
> >>A Free Software Desktop
> >>Join us in Supporting GNOME, the
> >>Free Software Desktop Project.
> >>www.gnome.org/friends
> >>
> >> Something similar holds for the other important keywords.
> >>
>