Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
Hey all, My view is that this page should help newcomers get hold of GNOME 3, either to try it or run it full time. This is the main place on the web for people to get this information. It is a prominent public-facing page. The focus should be on assisting non-experts, therefore. We know there is a lot of demand for this, thanks to our new super awesome web stats - the getting GNOME page receives a lot of inbound traffic, and generates a lot of outbound traffic to the major distros also. If someone is interested in a less popular distro, I think we can assume they already have some technical expertise, and that they have the skills to find the information they require. With this in mind, we used some rough criteria when selecting the distros to include when this page the first time round. These went roughly: * provide a complete (or almost complete) GNOME 3 experience, which is reasonably close to upstream * make it easy for a novice to get GNOME 3 * if they don't include GNOME 3 out of the box, have a single link we can include to provide instructions or automatically install it (preferably not requiring the use of a command line) When GNOME 3.0 came out, that lead us to include Fedora and openSUSE, if I recall correctly. Ubuntu was added once their GNOME 3 ppa was ready. I think it's important to recognise that this page isn't a popularity contest or a statement about which distros GNOME likes and which it doesn't. Its primary purpose is to help newcomers get started using GNOME 3. It is also a nice place to illustrate the communities and values associated with GNOME, of course, and this page can do a bit of that, but this shouldn't detract from its primary focus. Having a less prominent secondary list of distros which include GNOME 3, but maybe aren't as easy to get started with, seems like a good compromise to me. How we select that list of distros is a little tricky, of course. (But I do think we should have some criteria for this.) On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote: On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 03:40:41PM +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote: So what about the others then? I forgot about the Amazing Distro X! :) I felt that the instructions for Arch (GNOME is available in the _extra_ repository), Mageia (GNOME 3 is coming in the next I don't like this change. I help out at Mageia. And the standard Mageia doesn't provide the correct GNOME. Saying: Check out their websites for more details. while GNOME 3 is only in the next version, by default you only get gnome-shell and not e.g. gnome-documents... The purpose of getting GNOME page is to explain how you can get GNOME. The text on the getting-gnome is totally inaccurate. If you don't want Mageia there, remove it. But if you want to say how to get GNOME, then explain how to get GNOME. Does the current version of Mageia let you get a complete (or near complete) GNOME 3? (Not just the shell - the apps, wallpaper, font, visual theme, control center, etc etc). It seems strange distro to have on the getting GNOME page if it doesn't have that. Either way, I don't think it should be our responsibility to maintain instructions for installing GNOME 3 on distros. If we did that for every distro on that page, it would quickly become a mess and maintenance burden. Allan -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 01:57:29PM +0100, Allan Day wrote: GNOME 3. It is also a nice place to illustrate the communities and values associated with GNOME, of course, and this page can do a bit of that, but this shouldn't detract from its primary focus. Having a less prominent secondary list of distros which include GNOME 3, but maybe aren't as easy to get started with, seems like a good compromise to me. How we select that list of distros is a little tricky, of course. (But I do think we should have some criteria for this.) I want Mageia to be removed from this list the way it is now. You're not getting GNOME 3 with the stated instructions. As such, I don't want it in there. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
I want Mageia to be removed from this list the way it is now. You're not getting GNOME 3 with the stated instructions. As such, I don't want it in there. I'd be sorry to see it removed. Would it be possible for Mageia to host instructions explaining how to install GNOME 3, do you think? Allan -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
Hi Olav, On 04/02/2012 03:02 PM, Olav Vitters wrote: On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 01:57:29PM +0100, Allan Day wrote: GNOME 3. It is also a nice place to illustrate the communities and values associated with GNOME, of course, and this page can do a bit of that, but this shouldn't detract from its primary focus. Having a less prominent secondary list of distros which include GNOME 3, but maybe aren't as easy to get started with, seems like a good compromise to me. How we select that list of distros is a little tricky, of course. (But I do think we should have some criteria for this.) I want Mageia to be removed from this list the way it is now. You're not getting GNOME 3 with the stated instructions. As such, I don't want it in there. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but you're coming across as rude demanding here. The image of my son shouting I don't want to take a bath comes to mind. There may be good reasons to include or exclude Mageia from the list - and I'm sure that we can all work through those reasons without being too demanding. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org Jabber: nea...@gmail.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 02:06:16PM +0100, Allan Day wrote: I want Mageia to be removed from this list the way it is now. You're not getting GNOME 3 with the stated instructions. As such, I don't want it in there. I'd be sorry to see it removed. Would it be possible for Mageia to host instructions explaining how to install GNOME 3, do you think? That is what I used this page for. On Mageia.org: no clue, have to ask around. I was more aiming for getting a good standard GNOME experience, but that is proving to be quite difficult. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
So, what your saying is that its really hard to get a good GNOME 3 install on Mageia and therefor it shouldn't be on the list of distros, correct? I get that. Theres a reason we don't list *every* distro on the page afterall! Maybe we should come up with a concrete set of 'rules' to be listed and then work our way through a list of distros and rule them in or out as we go. Emily On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote: On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 02:06:16PM +0100, Allan Day wrote: I want Mageia to be removed from this list the way it is now. You're not getting GNOME 3 with the stated instructions. As such, I don't want it in there. I'd be sorry to see it removed. Would it be possible for Mageia to host instructions explaining how to install GNOME 3, do you think? That is what I used this page for. On Mageia.org: no clue, have to ask around. I was more aiming for getting a good standard GNOME experience, but that is proving to be quite difficult. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 03:10:35PM +0200, Dave Neary wrote: I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but you're coming across as rude demanding here. The image of my son shouting I don't want to take a bath comes to mind. There may be good reasons to include or exclude Mageia from the list - and I'm sure that we can all work through those reasons without being too demanding. I was the one who added Mageia to this page. I'm the one packaging most of GNOME for Mageia. If the text for Mageia in this page is changed in a way that results in a bad experience to get GNOME, I don't find it unreasonable to highlight that. If other people now take care of this page, I don't find it unreasonable to give feedback. Being straightforward that just having Mageia in there because it used to be in there isn't really an acceptable criteria is really direct, but I can either send a really long message pretending that I am not direct, or be direct. The criteria given is straightforward: Mageia doesn't provide a good GNOME experience by default, nor does it have a webpage explaining how to get the full experience. Getting a new webpage for this in a good place (and not just put somewhere @ Mageia to meet the criteria) is something I don't involve myself with in Mageia. So for now it should not be there. If something changes, of course I'll ask it to be included again, but for now it is incorrect to have it. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 09:30:45AM -0400, Emily Gonyer wrote: So, what your saying is that its really hard to get a good GNOME 3 install on Mageia and therefor it shouldn't be on the list of distros, correct? I get that. Theres a reason we don't list *every* distro on the page afterall! Maybe we should come up with a concrete set of 'rules' to be listed and then work our way through a list of distros and rule them in or out as we go. Yes, hard if you do not know what should be done. There is no installer option that actually works (you can select GNOME, but you're not getting anything near the full GNOME, nor the default theme). Instructions itself: You have to install task-gnome meta-package and select Adwaita in gnome-tweak-tool. Missing stuff: By default not even Nautilus is installed. I'm hoping to create another package which does this for you, but not sure if I can complete it before Mageia version freeze. Also not totally sure on how to solve it nicely. So although you can have an excellent GNOME experience in Mageia, by default it is far from it. Initially the text on getting-gnome was minimal, as I failed to get a nice default GNOME experience I was planning to put the concrete instructions on the getting-gnome page. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
HI Allan Day I think you are right but still there is one thing confusing me that is adding ubuntu because ubuntu is not using GNOME3 completely they aren't giving GNOME3 in their default distribution not even in ubuntu 12.04 ,as far as i know there is a package which an ubuntu user can install to get the GNOME look (an additional package) so i completely disagree on adding ubuntu because i have never seen any GNOME thing after UBUNT10.10 like its written on fedora download page and on opensuse also that their default distribution is GNOME and i never see UBUNTU mentioned this after 10.10 so i request you to please confirm about ubuntu Regards Akshay On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote: On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 09:30:45AM -0400, Emily Gonyer wrote: So, what your saying is that its really hard to get a good GNOME 3 install on Mageia and therefor it shouldn't be on the list of distros, correct? I get that. Theres a reason we don't list *every* distro on the page afterall! Maybe we should come up with a concrete set of 'rules' to be listed and then work our way through a list of distros and rule them in or out as we go. Yes, hard if you do not know what should be done. There is no installer option that actually works (you can select GNOME, but you're not getting anything near the full GNOME, nor the default theme). Instructions itself: You have to install task-gnome meta-package and select Adwaita in gnome-tweak-tool. Missing stuff: By default not even Nautilus is installed. I'm hoping to create another package which does this for you, but not sure if I can complete it before Mageia version freeze. Also not totally sure on how to solve it nicely. So although you can have an excellent GNOME experience in Mageia, by default it is far from it. Initially the text on getting-gnome was minimal, as I failed to get a nice default GNOME experience I was planning to put the concrete instructions on the getting-gnome page. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- Akshay vyas -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
Hi, On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 19:55 +0530, Akshay Vyas wrote: I think you are right but still there is one thing confusing me that is adding ubuntu because ubuntu is not using GNOME3 completely they aren't giving GNOME3 in their default distribution not even in ubuntu 12.04 ,as far as i know there is a package which an ubuntu user can install to get the GNOME look (an additional package) See the initial email by Andreas: http://www.gnome.org/getting-gnome/ links for Ubuntu to http://apt.ubuntu.com/p/gnome . If there is something similar available for Linux Mint (easy steps or even one click to get the default GNOME experience), Linux Mint could be listed. As long as nobody tells us if something similar is available for Linux Mint and what exactly it is, Linux Mint is not listed. I hope that clarifies things. :) andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
I think the reasoning for including Ubuntu on the page is two fold: 1) Its a very popular distro, and lots of people want to know how to get GNOME 3 on it 2) Its quite easy to get a good GNOME 3 install on Ubuntu - simply add the ppa and install (or in the case of the getting gnome page, just click :) On a side note, I think there should be a link to the 'getting gnome' page on the home page (gnome.org) without having to click through to GNOME 3, and then scroll/read all the way down through to 'find out how to get gnome 3' - if I want GNOME 3, I'd rather not have to load and read through mutliple pages just to be told how to get it. Currently, its slightly buried and hard to find, especially if you don't really know what your looking for. Emily (ps, sorry about getting this twice Akshay - I forgot to hit reply all the first time :p) On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Akshay Vyas akshayvya...@gmail.com wrote: HI Allan Day I think you are right but still there is one thing confusing me that is adding ubuntu because ubuntu is not using GNOME3 completely they aren't giving GNOME3 in their default distribution not even in ubuntu 12.04 ,as far as i know there is a package which an ubuntu user can install to get the GNOME look (an additional package) so i completely disagree on adding ubuntu because i have never seen any GNOME thing after UBUNT10.10 like its written on fedora download page and on opensuse also that their default distribution is GNOME and i never see UBUNTU mentioned this after 10.10 so i request you to please confirm about ubuntu Regards Akshay On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote: On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 09:30:45AM -0400, Emily Gonyer wrote: So, what your saying is that its really hard to get a good GNOME 3 install on Mageia and therefor it shouldn't be on the list of distros, correct? I get that. Theres a reason we don't list *every* distro on the page afterall! Maybe we should come up with a concrete set of 'rules' to be listed and then work our way through a list of distros and rule them in or out as we go. Yes, hard if you do not know what should be done. There is no installer option that actually works (you can select GNOME, but you're not getting anything near the full GNOME, nor the default theme). Instructions itself: You have to install task-gnome meta-package and select Adwaita in gnome-tweak-tool. Missing stuff: By default not even Nautilus is installed. I'm hoping to create another package which does this for you, but not sure if I can complete it before Mageia version freeze. Also not totally sure on how to solve it nicely. So although you can have an excellent GNOME experience in Mageia, by default it is far from it. Initially the text on getting-gnome was minimal, as I failed to get a nice default GNOME experience I was planning to put the concrete instructions on the getting-gnome page. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- Akshay vyas -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
HI np Emily Gonyer :) @Andre Klapper Linux mint is giving mgse with GNOME 3 and you can enable gnome 3 by disabling the extensions ie MGSE is just and extension provided by Linux Mint for reference im providing this link here http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_lisa_whatsnew.php and i request you to please go through this page as it is written there that (MGSE (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions) is a desktop layer on top of Gnome 3 that makes it possible for you to use Gnome 3 in a traditional way. You can disable all components within MGSE to get a pure Gnome 3 experience, or you can enable all of them to get a Gnome 3 desktop that is similar to what you’ve been using before. Of course you can also pick and only enable the components you like to design your own desktop.) you can find this text on the given link On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:08 PM, Emily Gonyer emilyyr...@gmail.com wrote: I think the reasoning for including Ubuntu on the page is two fold: 1) Its a very popular distro, and lots of people want to know how to get GNOME 3 on it 2) Its quite easy to get a good GNOME 3 install on Ubuntu - simply add the ppa and install (or in the case of the getting gnome page, just click :) On a side note, I think there should be a link to the 'getting gnome' page on the home page (gnome.org) without having to click through to GNOME 3, and then scroll/read all the way down through to 'find out how to get gnome 3' - if I want GNOME 3, I'd rather not have to load and read through mutliple pages just to be told how to get it. Currently, its slightly buried and hard to find, especially if you don't really know what your looking for. Emily (ps, sorry about getting this twice Akshay - I forgot to hit reply all the first time :p) On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Akshay Vyas akshayvya...@gmail.com wrote: HI Allan Day I think you are right but still there is one thing confusing me that is adding ubuntu because ubuntu is not using GNOME3 completely they aren't giving GNOME3 in their default distribution not even in ubuntu 12.04 ,as far as i know there is a package which an ubuntu user can install to get the GNOME look (an additional package) so i completely disagree on adding ubuntu because i have never seen any GNOME thing after UBUNT10.10 like its written on fedora download page and on opensuse also that their default distribution is GNOME and i never see UBUNTU mentioned this after 10.10 so i request you to please confirm about ubuntu Regards Akshay On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote: On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 09:30:45AM -0400, Emily Gonyer wrote: So, what your saying is that its really hard to get a good GNOME 3 install on Mageia and therefor it shouldn't be on the list of distros, correct? I get that. Theres a reason we don't list *every* distro on the page afterall! Maybe we should come up with a concrete set of 'rules' to be listed and then work our way through a list of distros and rule them in or out as we go. Yes, hard if you do not know what should be done. There is no installer option that actually works (you can select GNOME, but you're not getting anything near the full GNOME, nor the default theme). Instructions itself: You have to install task-gnome meta-package and select Adwaita in gnome-tweak-tool. Missing stuff: By default not even Nautilus is installed. I'm hoping to create another package which does this for you, but not sure if I can complete it before Mageia version freeze. Also not totally sure on how to solve it nicely. So although you can have an excellent GNOME experience in Mageia, by default it is far from it. Initially the text on getting-gnome was minimal, as I failed to get a nice default GNOME experience I was planning to put the concrete instructions on the getting-gnome page. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- Akshay vyas -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein -- Akshay vyas -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
Hi, On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 20:25 +0530, Akshay Vyas wrote: Linux mint is giving mgse with GNOME 3 and you can enable gnome 3 by disabling the extensions ie MGSE is just and extension provided by Linux Mint for reference im providing this link here http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_lisa_whatsnew.php and Oh great, the sentence You can disable all components within MGSE to get a pure Gnome 3 experience was what I was looking for. :) Is there documentation somewhere with exact steps how to disable all MGSE extensions (like Go to Blah Foo and click Disable all extensions) to get a pure GNOME 3 experience? Because that is what we need. :) andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting GNOME page on gnome.org
On Mon, April 2, 2012 9:30 am, Emily Gonyer wrote: So, what your saying is that its really hard to get a good GNOME 3 install on Mageia and therefor it shouldn't be on the list of distros, correct? I get that. Theres a reason we don't list *every* distro on the page afterall! Maybe we should come up with a concrete set of 'rules' to be listed and then work our way through a list of distros and rule them in or out as we go. Another thought - Is there any reason we can't have a link on this page saying, see other distributions using GNOME, where we have a separate page and add anyone who asks or makes sense to add? Also, we should think about adding Pandora as another footnote, saying that GNOME 3 is available on a fully free distribution there, because that represents a slightly different ideological issue (while not meeting our criteria for inclusion in general, it fills a niche that a real subset of our users may be interested in knowing about). karen Emily On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote: On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 02:06:16PM +0100, Allan Day wrote: I want Mageia to be removed from this list the way it is now. You're not getting GNOME 3 with the stated instructions. As such, I don't want it in there. I'd be sorry to see it removed. Would it be possible for Mageia to host instructions explaining how to install GNOME 3, do you think? That is what I used this page for. On Mageia.org: no clue, have to ask around. I was more aiming for getting a good standard GNOME experience, but that is proving to be quite difficult. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
