Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
Hello, I guess what I am asking will never make it. Think it as just another opinion :) Moving from MLs to Google Groups will get nothing but advantages. *Sharing and Discovering* Open Source is about sharing. Sharing isn't working good in hardly discovered MLs. I am also saying this because of the close source Google platform. Is better to use a close platform and be more open source rather to use an open platform and be less open source. Besides you also maintain some repos in Github, and I wish you will move there. *Searching and Discovering* There are many how-tos and tips on your mailing lists about coding. Searching in Google doesn't show them. *Easy of Use* Nothing to say here, you all have used Google Groups(GG) :) One thing only is the good searching inside the GG and how easily you can follow, respond, star a subject etc etc *Popularity / Get more people to Gnome* You'll get definitely more responses, more people will involve *Gnome Image* You'll get a more modern face. *Maintaining* Easier for you *Gnome and Google* People use Google. Gnome use Google a lot. GOA, Documents (Google Drive support now?), Calendar etc.. Tie your platform more with Google. I am not in favor of Google but I'm in favor of the best option at the moment *MLs aside with GG* I am not asking you to remove the MLs. You can handle them as Gnome Live. With closed registration but with open view. Or another way.. Anyway, I might say stupid things! Thank you - alex -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 02:51:27PM +0300, alex diavatis wrote: *Easy of Use* Nothing to say here, you all have used Google Groups(GG) :) One thing only is the good searching inside the GG and how easily you can follow, respond, star a subject etc etc Google groups is only webbased right? Reading 100+ emails/day at the moment takes no time at all. All webbased things are really slow in comparison. The workflow of anything web based is just totally different than email based. There are various web frontends already for mailing list. The most popular one is gmane, see http://gmane.org/ It would still be cool to more easily be able to participate. Note that another factor is the freedom. Google groups change change at the will of Google. Furthermore the code behind it is not open (we cannot change it). That is usually a no go. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
Hello, On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 02:51:27PM +0300, alex diavatis wrote: Moving from MLs to Google Groups will get nothing but advantages. Are you not satisfied with any particular aspect? *Sharing and Discovering* Open Source is about sharing. Sharing isn't working good in hardly discovered MLs. [citation needed] Right now, I can download the mboxes, index, search and share all *I* want. I am also saying this because of the close source Google platform. Is better to use a close platform and be more open source rather to use an open platform and be less open source. I disagree with you. Strongly. We not only want to be open, but also free. That is, to be in control over what happens to our infrastructure and who controls who is using it. Cheers, Tobi -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
RE: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
Not that I want to take sides here at all, but just for clarification purposes, I'll say that Google Groups are mailing lists at their core, they're indeed email based. The web frontend is just another interface. PS. Hi there people, yes, I'm new. I've got an introductory email in my TO-DO list, coming soon :) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 14:00:03 +0200 From: o...@vitters.nl To: alexis.diava...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups? CC: marketing-list@gnome.org On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 02:51:27PM +0300, alex diavatis wrote: *Easy of Use* Nothing to say here, you all have used Google Groups(GG) :) One thing only is the good searching inside the GG and how easily you can follow, respond, star a subject etc etc Google groups is only webbased right? Reading 100+ emails/day at the moment takes no time at all. All webbased things are really slow in comparison. The workflow of anything web based is just totally different than email based. There are various web frontends already for mailing list. The most popular one is gmane, see http://gmane.org/ It would still be cool to more easily be able to participate. Note that another factor is the freedom. Google groups change change at the will of Google. Furthermore the code behind it is not open (we cannot change it). That is usually a no go. -- Regards, Olav -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
Hello Olav, Ahato, Tobias! Olav: I know that you cannot export your data from Google's services, and that was always an issue with Google. However I can't see how a service that hosts thousands open projects will change. Ahato: Yes, is about interface and about the Google Effect. Tobias: Please don't go to satisfied issue. If I wasn't I wouldn't be here. But none will ever be satisfied completely with nothing :) Many people that believe in free or open source use Google Services, or Facebook or YouTube or whatever. Gnome uses Twitter etc. Many free projects use Google Groups. I believe that Open Source should be in harmony with proprietary. The goal is to develop open source not to disqualified proprietary. As I said I might saying stupid things, I am okay with the answers :) Consider this topic closed! Thank you! - alex On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Tobias Mueller tobias...@gnome.org wrote: Hello, On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 02:51:27PM +0300, alex diavatis wrote: Moving from MLs to Google Groups will get nothing but advantages. Are you not satisfied with any particular aspect? *Sharing and Discovering* Open Source is about sharing. Sharing isn't working good in hardly discovered MLs. [citation needed] Right now, I can download the mboxes, index, search and share all *I* want. I am also saying this because of the close source Google platform. Is better to use a close platform and be more open source rather to use an open platform and be less open source. I disagree with you. Strongly. We not only want to be open, but also free. That is, to be in control over what happens to our infrastructure and who controls who is using it. Cheers, Tobi -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
On Thu, 2012-08-16 at 14:51 +0300, alex diavatis wrote: Hello, I guess what I am asking will never make it. Think it as just another opinion :) Moving from MLs to Google Groups will get nothing but advantages. Sharing and Discovering Open Source is about sharing. Sharing isn't working good in hardly discovered MLs. I am also saying this because of the close source Google platform. Is better to use a close platform and be more open source rather to use an open platform and be less open source. Besides you also maintain some repos in Github, and I wish you will move there. Searching and Discovering There are many how-tos and tips on your mailing lists about coding. Searching in Google doesn't show them. Easy of Use Nothing to say here, you all have used Google Groups(GG) :) One thing only is the good searching inside the GG and how easily you can follow, respond, star a subject etc etc Popularity / Get more people to Gnome You'll get definitely more responses, more people will involve Gnome Image You'll get a more modern face. Maintaining Easier for you Gnome and Google People use Google. Gnome use Google a lot. GOA, Documents (Google Drive support now?), Calendar etc.. Tie your platform more with Google. I am not in favor of Google but I'm in favor of the best option at the moment MLs aside with GG I am not asking you to remove the MLs. You can handle them as Gnome Live. With closed registration but with open view. Or another way.. Anyway, I might say stupid things! Thank you - alex Use of @google signifies amateurity and threatens branding efforts by marketing teams within organizations. I find it completely unprofessional when a formal organization sends me an email that is mail@google.com or @gmail.com instead of @orgname.org. It sends a very strong message to readers that the organization isn't even solified enough to have its own infrastructure. And this affects branding as well. gnome.org is a very important part of the branding. Moreover, while it is good to have many people join a mailing list, it would be extremely chaotic if we made it that much easier to join mailing lists. We would immediately become overcrowded, bikeshedding would be a daily occurance, and distraction would be the order of the day. Google Groups requires attentive administration. I can automatically join any current mailing list on GNOME (or in any other formal open source organization) and immediately participate. Far too frequently when I join a Google Group, I have to wait days, if not weeks until someone realizes to accept my request to join. It is a ridiculous waste of our resources to have someone sitting around to pay attention to that level of administration. Google Groups has its place, and yes Google Groups offers benefits in that you can easily search for mailing lists that fit your interests. But that isn't what and how mailing lists work for in many open source organizations. That's what forums and the like are for. It is not harmonious to put ourselves in the hands of Google or any other organization and cede control of our own infrastructure. Bryen M Yunashko -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
On Thu, 2012-08-16 at 15:41 +0300, alex diavatis wrote: Gnome uses Twitter etc. I see a difference here: Gnome uses Twitter, but it does not *rely* on it, while mailing lists are a critical infrastructure part. Gnome could theoretically not use Twitter as there would be still Identi.ca (free and open), Google Plus and Facebook for spreading short messages. andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
On Thu, 2012-08-16 at 17:27 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote: On Thu, 2012-08-16 at 15:41 +0300, alex diavatis wrote: Gnome uses Twitter etc. I see a difference here: Gnome uses Twitter, but it does not *rely* on it, while mailing lists are a critical infrastructure part. Gnome could theoretically not use Twitter as there would be still Identi.ca (free and open), Google Plus and Facebook for spreading short messages. andre -- And Facebook is a perfect example of chaos in the hands of others. I don't know how it is for GNOME, but for other organizations, Facebook has proven to be a headache because they change group and page administration methods at will, and there is a proliferation of independently-created groups and pages that support an organization making it much harder to disseminate information. At last year's Community Leadership Summit, many organizations complained that it took at least an hour per day to disseminate information on all the groups and pages on Facebook. We have no control over that and we are left at the mercy of an infrastructure that is not ours to manage. When Facebook supporters reaches into the thousands, it is very hard for us to disseminate information directly to all individual supporters. Bryen M Yunashko -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
Mozilla uses an odd combination of Mailman and Google Groups. So most Mozilla lists can be subscribed to via Mailman *or* Google Groups. I wasn't around when the decision was made but I believe the driving force was to provide a Mailman interface for those who work best with that and a web interface for people who liked the newsgroup format. While it doesn't always work perfectly, it seems to work for a lot of people. On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 6:16 AM, Tobias Mueller tobias...@gnome.org wrote: Right now, I can download the mboxes, index, search and share all *I* want. And this is a huge feature. The problem with the Mozilla hybrid, from my Mailman biased perspective, is that the archives are in Google Groups. So when I join a list, I can't download the mbox to search and read the archives effectively given the way I work. Stormy -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Any chance to move your MLs to Google Groups?
On Thu, August 16, 2012 11:27 am, Andre Klapper wrote: On Thu, 2012-08-16 at 15:41 +0300, alex diavatis wrote: Gnome uses Twitter etc. I see a difference here: Gnome uses Twitter, but it does not *rely* on it, while mailing lists are a critical infrastructure part. Gnome could theoretically not use Twitter as there would be still Identi.ca (free and open), Google Plus and Facebook for spreading short messages. I agree with a lot that has been said here, and would add that when GNOME uses Twitter, we generally do so via Identi.ca, so that our dents are pushed through to Twitter and indicated as such, which is a nice little plug for freedom too. I think it's important to choose all of our services carefully. Thanks for raising the initial question, Alex, and everyone else for chiming in. karen -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
