Re: GNOME - Gnome
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 08:50 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: Our brand recognition seems to be mostly within the FOSS group. People really don't know GNOME they know Ubuntu/Fedora/SuSE etc but they don't really know the software that runs their desktop. There is no recognizable branding in any of those desktops. Even in gnome-shell I don't know that I'm using GNOME. Our brand is non-existent in the shell. No icon, no wording, nothing. Changing GNOME's name now could prove distracting but also IMHO ineffective as long as our branding is hidden behind distros. So true! The important question is: 'How do we get the existing brand into the minds of the people?' Changing the name would destroy all the work, the time and the efforts already invested into Gnome as a brand. It makes existing resources more complicated to use (think web archives) and confuses consumers and developers alike. It has no real benefit, other than getting rid of some historical links. Why waste time with considerations like this? Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 18:28 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: Hi Andre, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Dienstag, den 06.04.2010, 08:08 -0500 schrieb Bharat Kapoor: At least now I know what GNOME is an acronym for :) The talk is about name or rename (if our mission is consistent with) GNU Network Object Model Environment Once again: GNOME WAS an acronym. GNOME is NOT anymore an acronym. GNOME stands for GNOME nowadays. Only. That's all. Except, that's not a good answer. If that's the case, then GNOME can be Gnome or gnome or GnoMe or whatever. All caps implies acronym, and thus people will ask what it stands for. And if you answer it doesn't stand for anything, the most likely answer is that's stupid. No, people in general don't give a damn. They have better things to do than wondering about the capitals. Anybody recognizing capitals as an acronym is a geek or nerd -- hardly the majority of people. Normal people -- if they even wonder about the capitals -- consider them part of some marketing stuff and then go on with their lives. They would never ask: 'What does GNOME stand for?' If they ever ask, it's more in the lines of 'How came it was called GNOME?' or 'Why is it called GNOME?' And what's wrong with telling people how this happened? It's part of GNOME's history and this is never going to change. Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 18:28 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: Once again: GNOME WAS an acronym. GNOME is NOT anymore an acronym. GNOME stands for GNOME nowadays. Only. That's all. Except, that's not a good answer. If that's the case, then GNOME can be Gnome or gnome or GnoMe or whatever. All caps implies acronym, and thus people will ask what it stands for. And if you answer it doesn't stand for anything, the most likely answer is that's stupid. Yes. I also think its time to start calling it Gnome. -- murr...@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Yes. I also think its time to start calling it Gnome. You can call it whatever you want. Hylke -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Hi, Hylke Bons wrote: I am very much against this. Gnome reminds of the the imaginary tiny creatures. I agree with Hylke. GNOME is better than Gnome. Something completely different might be better again... we don't have a huge amount of brand equity worldwide for GNOME, perhaps it's time to consider a rename? Although I can live with GNOME... Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Hi Guys At least now I know what GNOME is an acronym for :) - thanks Hylke. I am working on our mobile fund raising plan and many a times the question came up: Who are we? Why are we in this business? What's our grand vision? At least I could not find a consistent answer (I think I understand the essence) - maybe its ignorance on my part - but anyway. Now why do I bring all this up in this thread? The talk is about name or rename (if our mission is consistent with) GNU Network Object Model Environment - then stick with Gnome or GNOME (I dont have a preference) BUT if our mission / vision / goals are a little different now - maybe we want to think of renaming. But before we go that route would it be worth everyone spelling their view/vision in a couple of sentences. What we should DO and what we should NOT? I agree with Dave too - we dont have a huge brand equity maybe starting fresh may not be such a bad idea (assuming we have a strong reason tod o so) This should give us a clear direction if we need a name change or not. My 2 cents Regards Bharat On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:35 AM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Hi, Hylke Bons wrote: I am very much against this. Gnome reminds of the the imaginary tiny creatures. I agree with Hylke. GNOME is better than Gnome. Something completely different might be better again... we don't have a huge amount of brand equity worldwide for GNOME, perhaps it's time to consider a rename? Although I can live with GNOME... Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Hi, Am Freitag, den 02.04.2010, 12:19 -0600 schrieb Jason D. Clinton: If we're going to do this, 3.0 seems like the perfect opportunity. I think that we should decide how we feel as the Marketing Team leading up to the Zaragoza, Spain hackfest and try and come to a final decision by then. IIRC, there has been a vote at a GUADEC (back when it was more of a developers conference than a users conference) about how to pronounce GNOME. I don't think that these kinds of decisions belong into a group as small as the list of attendees of a hackfest. This should either go to d-d-l or foundation-list, and IMHO the foundation should take a look at whether most of the people really like to see a change in the typing. I also think, GNOME 3 is a bad time to reconsider these kinds of things. The development of GNOME branding has happened after GNOME 2.0.0. I don't see why a change like GNOME = Gnome needs to be rushed in… Regards, Sven -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Am Dienstag, den 06.04.2010, 08:08 -0500 schrieb Bharat Kapoor: At least now I know what GNOME is an acronym for :) The talk is about name or rename (if our mission is consistent with) GNU Network Object Model Environment Once again: GNOME WAS an acronym. GNOME is NOT anymore an acronym. GNOME stands for GNOME nowadays. Only. That's all. andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://www.iomc.de/ | http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Sven Herzberg he...@gnome-de.org wrote: Am Freitag, den 02.04.2010, 12:19 -0600 schrieb Jason D. Clinton: If we're going to do this, 3.0 seems like the perfect opportunity. I think that we should decide how we feel as the Marketing Team leading up to the Zaragoza, Spain hackfest and try and come to a final decision by then. I don't think that these kinds of decisions belong into a group as small as the list of attendees of a hackfest. You're right that it doesn't belong to a group that small; that is why I brought it up on the marketing-list where it belongs. But obviously there isn't any unanimity about it and we have enough on our respective plates already so I withdrawal the proposal. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
I would prefer Gnome to GNOME but not enough to push for it now. Perhaps we could come up with new words for the acronym. You'd be surprised how often I get asked what it stands for. GNOME So it was: GNU Network Object Model Environment What could it be? (I personally can't think of anything at the moment but perhaps I didn't get enough sleep to deal with these types of challenges right now. :) Stormy On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Jason D. Clinton m...@jasonclinton.comwrote: On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Sven Herzberg he...@gnome-de.org wrote: Am Freitag, den 02.04.2010, 12:19 -0600 schrieb Jason D. Clinton: If we're going to do this, 3.0 seems like the perfect opportunity. I think that we should decide how we feel as the Marketing Team leading up to the Zaragoza, Spain hackfest and try and come to a final decision by then. I don't think that these kinds of decisions belong into a group as small as the list of attendees of a hackfest. You're right that it doesn't belong to a group that small; that is why I brought it up on the marketing-list where it belongs. But obviously there isn't any unanimity about it and we have enough on our respective plates already so I withdrawal the proposal. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Something completely different might be better again... we don't have a huge amount of brand equity worldwide for GNOME, perhaps it's time to consider a rename? Although I can live with GNOME... Our brand recognition seems to be mostly within the FOSS group. People really don't know GNOME they know Ubuntu/Fedora/SuSE etc but they don't really know the software that runs their desktop. There is no recognizable branding in any of those desktops. Even in gnome-shell I don't know that I'm using GNOME. Our brand is non-existent in the shell. No icon, no wording, nothing. Changing GNOME's name now could prove distracting but also IMHO ineffective as long as our branding is hidden behind distros. sri -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
+1 I've mailed something only to Dave by mistake regarding some of the dangers of Re-Branding. Dave, feel free to forward to list, as it was my mistake on not hitting reply all. I pointed before also to Dave the following: * If GNOME is expecting some negative feedback on GNOME 3.0, please take that into considerating when thinking on rebranding, as it might bring additional negative charge towards users who are already creating some controversy with gnome-shell for example. Bringing major changes into play now might be harmful. I support Andre's point of view in full. Maybe we need only to do a small communication establishing what as changed (like the drop of the acronym, since the other brand aspects are to remain). nm On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 15:28 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Dienstag, den 06.04.2010, 08:08 -0500 schrieb Bharat Kapoor: At least now I know what GNOME is an acronym for :) The talk is about name or rename (if our mission is consistent with) GNU Network Object Model Environment Once again: GNOME WAS an acronym. GNOME is NOT anymore an acronym. GNOME stands for GNOME nowadays. Only. That's all. andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://www.iomc.de/ | http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper -- Nelson Marques PGP Fingerprint: 53E1 731B 85A4 A098 8382 8CFF 1AC7 AF01 7717 8063 -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Hi Andre, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Dienstag, den 06.04.2010, 08:08 -0500 schrieb Bharat Kapoor: At least now I know what GNOME is an acronym for :) The talk is about name or rename (if our mission is consistent with) GNU Network Object Model Environment Once again: GNOME WAS an acronym. GNOME is NOT anymore an acronym. GNOME stands for GNOME nowadays. Only. That's all. Except, that's not a good answer. If that's the case, then GNOME can be Gnome or gnome or GnoMe or whatever. All caps implies acronym, and thus people will ask what it stands for. And if you answer it doesn't stand for anything, the most likely answer is that's stupid. Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
El mar, 06-04-2010 a las 18:28 +0200, Dave Neary escribió: Hi Andre, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Dienstag, den 06.04.2010, 08:08 -0500 schrieb Bharat Kapoor: At least now I know what GNOME is an acronym for :) The talk is about name or rename (if our mission is consistent with) GNU Network Object Model Environment Once again: GNOME WAS an acronym. GNOME is NOT anymore an acronym. GNOME stands for GNOME nowadays. Only. That's all. Except, that's not a good answer. If that's the case, then GNOME can be Gnome or gnome or GnoMe or whatever. All caps implies acronym, and thus people will ask what it stands for. And if you answer it doesn't stand for anything, the most likely answer is that's stupid. I don't agree. I usually use André's answer and people just find it curious or funny. I haven't get negative feedback or reactions from GNOME is just GNOME, it was blah blah, but now it's just GNOME. It's not an absolutist answer, just a simple one. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 18:28 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: Hi Andre, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Dienstag, den 06.04.2010, 08:08 -0500 schrieb Bharat Kapoor: At least now I know what GNOME is an acronym for :) The talk is about name or rename (if our mission is consistent with) GNU Network Object Model Environment Once again: GNOME WAS an acronym. GNOME is NOT anymore an acronym. GNOME stands for GNOME nowadays. Only. That's all. Except, that's not a good answer. If that's the case, then GNOME can be Gnome or gnome or GnoMe or whatever. All caps implies acronym, and thus people will ask what it stands for. And if you answer it doesn't stand for anything, the most likely answer is that's stupid. Once more I failed on reply-all. Trademark establishes the image of the brand, so: GNOME != gnome GNOME != gNoMe GNOME != Gnome ... plus variations you can imagine. As it also should contemplate it's image. So if the trademark is GNOME without being related to acronym, there should be no relation. I don't know if someone who has legal knowledge of this can support or enlighten people. I do know that when Marketing creates a Trademark all this aspects are usually contemplated. If you trademark is GNOME, then gnome isn't your brand, and it is displayed as such it's a trademark violation!. The acronym might be dropped and all the rest kept. I am not saying we should change or not change anything. I'm just trying to say that I do agree with Andre in having GNOME (dropping the acronym). I don't have the required technical skills to say this, but wouldn't bonobo actually fit better the acronym than GNOME itself (as a product)? Doesn't GNOME go far behond the acronym nowadays? /no flames I'm staying off such process, just trying to point that Trademarks are used alongside other mechanisms for stuff like this. nm Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org -- Nelson Marques PGP Fingerprint: 53E1 731B 85A4 A098 8382 8CFF 1AC7 AF01 7717 8063 -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Am Dienstag, den 06.04.2010, 18:05 +0100 schrieb Nelson Marques: I don't know if someone who has legal knowledge of this can support or enlighten people. http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/legal-list ? :-) andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://www.iomc.de/ | http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 11:35 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: Hi, Hylke Bons wrote: I am very much against this. Gnome reminds of the the imaginary tiny creatures. I agree with Hylke. GNOME is better than Gnome. My opinion on this is that GNOME is better that Gnome because we are used to see written that way with our logo, it looks good and we like to reproduce it. BTW, as far as I know, the GNOME uses Trebuchet MS [1] (correct me if I'm wrong) and I think it is time to change it. Best regards, [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet_MS -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 08:08 -0500, Bharat Kapoor wrote: Hi Guys I am working on our mobile fund raising plan and many a times the question came up: Who are we? Why are we in this business? What's our grand vision? At least I could not find a consistent answer (I think I understand the essence) - maybe its ignorance on my part - but anyway. Now why do I bring all this up in this thread? The talk is about name or rename (if our mission is consistent with) GNU Network Object Model Environment - then stick with Gnome or GNOME (I dont have a preference) BUT if our mission / vision / goals are a little different now - maybe we want to think of renaming. But before we go that route would it be worth everyone spelling their view/vision in a couple of sentences. What we should DO and what we should NOT? I agree with Dave too - we dont have a huge brand equity maybe starting fresh may not be such a bad idea (assuming we have a strong reason tod o so) This should give us a clear direction if we need a name change or not. I agree with the mission statement [1] must be changed/updated. There are some points about this on the GNOME SWOT analysis [2] and Claus Schwarm had made some comments recently [3]. I think this a topic worth a new thread :) However, GNOME is evolving all the time so IMHO we don't need a new brand because of that. regards, -- Juanjo [1] http://www.gnome.org/about/ [2] http://live.gnome.org/SWOT [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2010-April/msg1.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Am Dienstag, den 06.04.2010, 23:48 +0200 schrieb Juanjo Marin: BTW, as far as I know, the GNOME uses Trebuchet MS [1] (correct me if I'm wrong) and I think it is time to change it. Wrong, see http://live.gnome.org/BrandGuidelines ... andre [PS: Please do not CC me. I am subscribed to this mailing list.] -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://www.iomc.de/ | http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
On Wed, 2010-04-07 at 00:20 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote: BTW, as far as I know, the GNOME uses Trebuchet MS [1] (correct me if I'm wrong) and I think it is time to change it. Wrong, see http://live.gnome.org/BrandGuidelines ... OK, then it is OK for me. It resembles so much the MS Trebuchet we used to use that I haven't noticed. -- Juanjo Marin [PS: Please do not CC me. I am subscribed to this mailing list.] PS: Sorry for doing that (and sorry to the other cc'ed people !!!). I won't do it again :) -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
GNOME - Gnome
At the November hackfest, we briefly discussed and were all enthusiastically in support of changing the case of GNOME branding from GNOME to Gnome. I have floated this idea with others over the past few months and haven't gotten any negative feedback. What about others? Have you discussed this with others and what were their feelings? Just to be clear, no other part of our branding would be changed under this proposal. If we're going to do this, 3.0 seems like the perfect opportunity. I think that we should decide how we feel as the Marketing Team leading up to the Zaragoza, Spain hackfest and try and come to a final decision by then. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
Hi, I am very much against this. Gnome reminds of the the imaginary tiny creatures. At least you can see GNOME is an acronym, and you can guess it doesn't have anything to do with those. If the argument is that the acronym isn't appropriate anymore, I suggest finding a new a new one. Also Gnome is visually very unpleasing. The GNOME type in the logo looks very good. I'd rather go with finding a new name than changing the case. Hylke On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Jason D. Clinton m...@jasonclinton.com wrote: At the November hackfest, we briefly discussed and were all enthusiastically in support of changing the case of GNOME branding from GNOME to Gnome. I have floated this idea with others over the past few months and haven't gotten any negative feedback. What about others? Have you discussed this with others and what were their feelings? Just to be clear, no other part of our branding would be changed under this proposal. If we're going to do this, 3.0 seems like the perfect opportunity. I think that we should decide how we feel as the Marketing Team leading up to the Zaragoza, Spain hackfest and try and come to a final decision by then. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME - Gnome
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Alex Launi alex.la...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Hylke Bons hylkeb...@gmail.com wrote: Gnome reminds of the the imaginary tiny creatures. So what? Gnomes are adorable, intelligent creatures. They believe in strong communities, and wear silly hats. We should be thrilled to be associated with such creates. Well it would be nice if we knew what it said on the tin. At least you can see GNOME is an acronym, and you can guess it doesn't have anything to do with those. GNOME is a horrible acronym. GNU Network Object Model Environment. WHAT??? Seriously, what the hell does that mean? Looks like you didn't read my whole reply. Hylke -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
