Re: evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
Hi, Luis Villa a écrit : On 5/19/05, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some major flaws in current gnome marketing: There are many :) The major one at this stage is that we are spending lots of time talking about what we want to say, how we want to say it, and who we want to say it to, but we are spending a lot less time actually saying it :) Luis pimping LiveCDs is great, toady distributing over 1000 Ubuntu CDs (I only found out about this yesterday) in his college, to friends, family and colleagues, is amazing as well. We need more of this. The Gnome website is - what? It exists. But from a marketing point of view it is not much. The navigation is sub optimal. And the layout is sub optimal. Some good information is now on gnomefiles but unless you know what you are looking for it is far from perfect. It should be totally redone. Any suggestions on how are welcome. We can at least replace the front page more or less immediately. Reorganising and rewriting content inside the front page will take quite a while - perhaps we can plan to have that done at a certain date, and coincide a rebranding/relaunching of the GNOME brand at the same time? reality is, though, that it is a large task and until we agree on some bigger-picture stuff (like markets, themes, goals, etc.) it is hard to rework the whole thing consistently. Yeah. We need a leader to say OK, that's our market, let's not talk about it any more. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 09:36:25AM +0200, Dave Neary wrote: Yeah. We need a leader to say OK, that's our market, let's not talk about it any more. I agree. Less talk, more action. ;) sri -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:15:31 +0200 Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some major flaws in current gnome marketing: Gnome does not really promote its ease of use. Havoc's README that comes with the metacity package simply needs to be polished up into a press-printable form (shorter, less rant, less technical). I already pointed out a GNOME agenda (a paper on goals) would be useful to attract more developers, and use it as a kind of reference for design decisions. Maybe you could move the README into the wiki so it could be polished? KDE embraces Gnome apps where there is no equivalent (gimp,inkscape) as well as technology (gnome-volume-manager). These apps are often not perceived as Gnome apps from KDE users. So one just needs to tell them ;-) With an application that allows configuration of KDE apps, we'd be able to do the same. There was once somebody who wanted to do something alike but he probably stopped his efforts. The Gnome website is - what? It exists. But from a marketing point of view it is not much. The navigation is sub optimal. And the layout is sub optimal. Some good information is now on gnomefiles but unless you know what you are looking for it is far from perfect. I already pointed this out several times. However, the problem is the infrastructure: You don't get many Python hackers for web design, and all PHP hackers have lost interest a long time ago. There's even a sort of official decision not to deploy _any_ web 'application'. You can even find people complaining about the live.gnome.org wiki even on the foundation mailing list, suggesting to use MediaWiki. But since it's PHP, it was probably not even considered in the beginning. I also tried two times to get a gnome application listing site 'accepted' - the first mockup presented roughly two month before gnomefiles started - but all I recieved was a simple 'No, we want something else'. No explanation what they wanted, and no hint what to improve to get your own solution accepted. Right now there's another guy on the web-hackers list trying to solve the problem but I guess it will end in a similar 'decision' to do nothing. One simply looses interest when you get such 'feedback'. Cheers, Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 22:15 +0200, Claus Schwarm wrote: Maybe you could move the README into the wiki so it could be polished? Basically it says: * the question whether or not to include a new feature isn't Why not but Why? Is it really necessary to have that? * instead of giving the user the choice between six options it is better to have directly a reasonable default. * don't bother the user with stuff he doesn't care for * kiss - keep it simple stupid some quotes (keep in mind that's all not intended to be marketing speak): - Boring window manager for the adult in you. Many window managers are like Marshmallow Froot Loops; Metacity is like Cheerios. - Does not expose the concept of window manager to the user. Some of the features in the GNOME control panel and other parts of the desktop happen to be implemented in metacity, such as changing your window border theme, or changing your window navigation shortcuts, but the user doesn't need to know this. Q: Will you add my feature? A: If it makes sense to turn on unconditionally, or is genuinely a harmless preference that I would not be embarrassed to put in a simple, uncluttered, user-friendly configuration dialog. If the only rationale for your feature is that other window managers have it, or that you are personally used to it, or something like that, then I will not be impressed. Metacity is firmly in the choose good defaults camp rather than the offer 6 equally broken ways to do it, and let the user pick one camp. This is part of a no crackrock policy, despite some exceptions I'm mildly embarrassed about. For example, multiple workspaces probably constitute crackrock, they confuse most users and really are not that useful if you have a decent tasklist and so on. But I am too used to them to turn them off. Or alternatively iconification/tasklist is crack, and workspaces/pager are good. But having both is certainly a bit wrong. Sloppy focus is probably crackrock too. But don't think unlimited crack is OK just because I slipped up a little. No slippery slope here. Q: Why no XYZ? A: You are probably getting the idea by now - check rationales.txt, query/search bugzilla, and read http://pobox.com/~hp/features.html and http://pobox.com/~hp/free-software-ui.html Then sit down and answer the question for yourself. Is the feature good? What's the rationale for it? Answer why not just why not. Justify in terms of users as a whole, not just users like yourself. How else can you solve the same problem? etc. If that leads you to a strong opinion, then please, post the rationale for discussion to an appropriate bugzilla bug, or to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please don't just me too! on bugzilla bugs, please don't think flames will get you anywhere, and please don't repeat rationale that's already been offered. Q: How about adding viewports in addition to workspaces? A: I could conceivably be convinced to use viewports _instead_ of workspaces, though currently I'm not thinking that. But I don't think it makes any sense to have both; it's just confusing. They are functionally equivalent. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 16:10 -0400, Luis Villa wrote: I really like the 'heart of the desktop' :) Isn't it also a mixed metaphor? -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
