Re: [Marxism] Brexit and Labour Party crisis in twitterdom
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 28/06/2016 07:12 μμ, jamie pitman via Marxism wrote: the UK is currently an anarchy with nobody leading government or the opposition. if this is not an opportunity for the left (whether it is Callinicos' or Lynch's or any other's organisation) then, there is no such a thing as un oppotunity for the left JA _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Brexit and Labour Party crisis in twitterdom
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * So the Labour Party held the no confidence vote in Jeremy Corbyn today. 172 MPs voted to say they had no confidence in their leader and 40 voted to support him. This means the coup has successfully deepened and widened and what started in the Blairite camps has spread through the centre and soft left MPs who had previously sided with Jezza. This all means that a leadership election is inevitable – the *crucial* question in the short term is whether Corbyn is automatically placed on any new ballot (the opposition argue that this is not the case. If it isn’t then he’s unlikely to get the numbers needed to put him there. He’ll go and so will tens of thousands of new members). If he is automatically on the ballot however, then there’s nothing to suggest that he still doesn’t enjoy overwhelming support from the membership and won’t be returned as leader. Even so, the scale of opposition (81%) makes the smooth running of the party impossible; this is obviously no small problem. More importantly, Corbyn’s wider popularity is still untested (sort of - he has consistently abysmal approval ratings but defied expectations in local elections twice this year - if he hadn’t then this coup would have happened a lot earlier). This is a *real* problem although I feel slightly dirty to admit it as the plotters are using it as the pretext for their coup. It is a real problem though because there is likely to be a snap general election before Christmas designed to give Cameron’s successor the mandate they’ll obviously need considering the UK is currently an anarchy with nobody leading government or the opposition. So another consequence of Brexit is that Corbynism is likely to be given its ultimate test way before anybody envisaged. I’m afraid I don’t believe Corbyn can win a GE (I’d obviously love him too but that’s not the point). I’ll continue to support him and go to any more demo’s as needed but I think the smart move would be to try and reunite Labour by offering Jeremy to step down but only if he’s replaced with McDonnell - preferably uncontested - but even if not, McDonnell would receive the same thumping mandate as Corbyn. This is unlikely to appease the rebels however, as McDonnell is Corbyn’s closest ally and from precisely the same political mould. My reason for suggesting it is simply that I think McDonnell is genuinely electable and the media would have little time to compile/ compose the sort of character assassination against him as they already have Corbyn. Corbyn has just refused to resign (which is the response everybody expected). Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Gary MacLennan _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Brexit and Labour Party crisis in twitterdom
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Hi Jamie thank you for posting a reply. It's great to get acknowledgment. As for how many were there at the rally it is impossible for me to even guess. But one report had the police saying 10, 000 and I have never in all my protesting days which now stretch over half a century seen the police exagggerate about the number of protesters. Be that as it may, it is clear that political time in the UK has escaped the clutches of chronological time. No one is sure at all of what will happen. Comradely Gary On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 7:48 AM, jamie pitman via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > Hi Gary, > > I went to the protest tonight; at about 7 o’clock when I left I think it would be more accurate to say there was more like 1,000 people there. > > (As I’m sure you’re aware) there’s an argument Corbyn has lost support due to the lacklustre campaign he ran to stay in the EU. The counter argument is that Corbyn’s reserved endorsement for remain was more in tune with a sceptical Labour base than many of his MPs (who painted the EU as a land of milk, honey and worker’s rights). It’s completely conceivable Corbyn did lose some support from some of his young supporters who were overwhelmingly in favour of remaining. But his mandate was such it is unlikely that it has made much difference (given the lack of support the others received). And so its also unlikely that this coup will be successful. But I’m beyond doubtful this has translated into much public support outside of the membership – I.e. in terms of Corbyn being able to win a general election – and the likelihood is we may well face a snap election this year to give Cameron’s successor a proper mandate to negotiate Brexit and, most likely, reboot Osborne’s austerity programme. > > Jamie > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Gary MacLennan via Marxism > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary.maclennan1%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Brexit and Labour Party crisis in twitterdom
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/bruising-day-ends-with-labour-in-turmoil-and-corbyn-turning-to-the-grassroots The [possibly] crucial point is whether or not Corbyn is automatically placed on the ballot. I’ve heard McDonnell say they’ve checked it legally and he is. But if he isn’t (or at least if the other side wangles it so he isn’t) then I’m afraid he’s done. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: marinercarpen...@gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Brexit and Labour Party crisis in twitterdom
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Hi Gary, I went to the protest tonight; at about 7 o’clock when I left I think it would be more accurate to say there was more like 1,000 people there. (As I’m sure you’re aware) there’s an argument Corbyn has lost support due to the lacklustre campaign he ran to stay in the EU. The counter argument is that Corbyn’s reserved endorsement for remain was more in tune with a sceptical Labour base than many of his MPs (who painted the EU as a land of milk, honey and worker’s rights). It’s completely conceivable Corbyn did lose some support from some of his young supporters who were overwhelmingly in favour of remaining. But his mandate was such it is unlikely that it has made much difference (given the lack of support the others received). And so its also unlikely that this coup will be successful. But I’m beyond doubtful this has translated into much public support outside of the membership – I.e. in terms of Corbyn being able to win a general election – and the likelihood is we may well face a snap election this year to give Cameron’s successor a proper mandate to negotiate Brexit and, most likely, reboot Osborne’s austerity programme. Jamie Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Gary MacLennan via Marxism _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Brexit and Labour Party crisis in twitterdom
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I am in a remote part of Australia (again) and am following the crisis in the Labour Party on Richard Seymour's twitter feed. (I can picture Lou's eyes rolling in horror) Twitter is of course the most infuriating means of communication yet invented. But it does convey something of the ferment of what is happening. Compared to the comatose, zombie like state of Australian politics, it provides like a wonderfully invigorating rush of excitement and a by the second proof that the status quo is in danger. I have read Richard's blog on the Verso site and as always it is very thought provoking. But it is too early to say whether his guess is correct and that the coup against Corbyn has been bungled. My selection for the anti-Corbyn candidate still remains Andy Burnham, though he has tweeted that he will not support the coup. If he will not stand, then the coup could collapse. So, the plotters against Corbyn will get their vote while thousands of his supporters chant outside. Did the plotters underestimate Corbyn? It would appear so. Richard's analysis is that they want their party back irrespective of the damage this does. But as the coup drags on and the plotters are forced out of the corridors and the back rooms and into the streets, it is now clear that they will encounter real popular anger. And I don't think the likes of Hilary Benn or Alan Johnson will be prepared for what will happen. all fascinating. comradely Gary _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
