Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

2019-07-05 Thread Chris Slee via Marxism 
  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

The Links website is up again. My review of Burning Country is at:

http://links.org.au/node/4679

 Chris Slee


From: Marxism  on behalf of Chris Slee via 
Marxism 
Sent: Friday, 5 July 2019 7:57 AM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

John Reimann recommends that I read Burning Country (by Robin Yassin-Kassab and 
Leila  al-Shami).  I have already done so and reviewed it for Links.  I was 
hoping to send a link to the review, but the Links website (links.org.au) is 
down at present.

My review was generally favourable, but I had some differences with the authors 
over their attitude to the PYD.

The rebels were a mixed bag, but some were influenced by Sunni sectarianism 
and/or Arab chauvinism.  They were also affected by the need to obtain military 
support from the Turkish state and funding from governments and private sources 
in the Gulf states.

The result was that the PYD did not trust them and followed what they called a 
"third way".

Chris Slee


From: Marxism  on behalf of John Reimann 
via Marxism 
Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2019 4:09:30 AM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Chris Slee writes:

*"The PYD remained separate from the Turkish-backed rebels for several
reasons."The Turkish state had a long history of repression against its own
Kurdish population, and encouraged hostility to the Rojava revolution
amongst the rebel groups it supported."*

He misses the point. The PYD and its predecessor never involved themselves
in the uprising against Assad from the very first. At the very least, they
had an implicit truce with Assad. Yes, maybe some of the rebellion had
prejudices against the Kurds, but Chris should read "Burning Country". The
authors make it very clear that the majority of the rebels made very
conscious attempts to appeal to all groups in Syria. That includes both the
Shia and the Kurdish people.

John Reimann
--
*“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/chris_w_slee%40hotmail.com

_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/chris_w_slee%40hotmail.com
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

2019-07-04 Thread Chris Slee via Marxism 
  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

John Reimann recommends that I read Burning Country (by Robin Yassin-Kassab and 
Leila  al-Shami).  I have already done so and reviewed it for Links.  I was 
hoping to send a link to the review, but the Links website (links.org.au) is 
down at present.

My review was generally favourable, but I had some differences with the authors 
over their attitude to the PYD.

The rebels were a mixed bag, but some were influenced by Sunni sectarianism 
and/or Arab chauvinism.  They were also affected by the need to obtain military 
support from the Turkish state and funding from governments and private sources 
in the Gulf states.

The result was that the PYD did not trust them and followed what they called a 
"third way".

Chris Slee


From: Marxism  on behalf of John Reimann 
via Marxism 
Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2019 4:09:30 AM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Chris Slee writes:

*"The PYD remained separate from the Turkish-backed rebels for several
reasons."The Turkish state had a long history of repression against its own
Kurdish population, and encouraged hostility to the Rojava revolution
amongst the rebel groups it supported."*

He misses the point. The PYD and its predecessor never involved themselves
in the uprising against Assad from the very first. At the very least, they
had an implicit truce with Assad. Yes, maybe some of the rebellion had
prejudices against the Kurds, but Chris should read "Burning Country". The
authors make it very clear that the majority of the rebels made very
conscious attempts to appeal to all groups in Syria. That includes both the
Shia and the Kurdish people.

John Reimann
--
*“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/chris_w_slee%40hotmail.com

_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

2019-07-03 Thread John Reimann via Marxism 
  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Chris Slee writes:

*"The PYD remained separate from the Turkish-backed rebels for several
reasons."The Turkish state had a long history of repression against its own
Kurdish population, and encouraged hostility to the Rojava revolution
amongst the rebel groups it supported."*

He misses the point. The PYD and its predecessor never involved themselves
in the uprising against Assad from the very first. At the very least, they
had an implicit truce with Assad. Yes, maybe some of the rebellion had
prejudices against the Kurds, but Chris should read "Burning Country". The
authors make it very clear that the majority of the rebels made very
conscious attempts to appeal to all groups in Syria. That includes both the
Shia and the Kurdish people.

John Reimann
-- 
*“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

2019-07-03 Thread Chris Slee via Marxism 
  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

The PYD remained separate from the Turkish-backed rebels for several reasons.

The Turkish state had a long history of repression against its own Kurdish 
population, and encouraged hostility to the Rojava revolution amongst the rebel 
groups it supported.

Some of the rebels were Arab nationalists who did not support Kurdish rights.

Another factor was the rise of Sunni-sectarian ideology within the rebel 
movement.  This led to the growth of  groups such as Jabhat al-Nusra, which 
carried out the forced conversion of the Druze in Idlib province.  Such actions 
are counter-revolutionary.

Chris Slee

From: Marxism  on behalf of RKOB via 
Marxism 
Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 7:21:23 PM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Well, the YPG/PYD/SDF is not so isolated. It receives political and
military support from the U.S. and the EU. It is supported, as we just
saw, by Saudi Arabia (you can call it "humanitarian aid" if you like.)

What is true is that the the YPG/PYD/SDF is isolated from the Arab
masses. True, this is also because of Arab nationalist sentiments.
However, the PKK/YPG historically has worked hard to isolate themselves
from the Arab masses. They never defended an Arab or Muslim country
suffering from imperialist aggression (I know it in the cases of Iraq in
1990/91 as well as 2003 and I am pretty sure that this was also the case
in Afghanistan 2001).

You say that the revolution must be spread to the whole of Syria. How
true! But the PKK/YPG never supported the popular uprising! Instead,
they kept their relations with the Assad regime and refused to join the
uprising. By such they helped the regime to concentrate their forces to
suppress the uprising.


_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

2019-07-03 Thread RKOB via Marxism 

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Well, the YPG/PYD/SDF is not so isolated. It receives political and 
military support from the U.S. and the EU. It is supported, as we just 
saw, by Saudi Arabia (you can call it "humanitarian aid" if you like.)


What is true is that the the YPG/PYD/SDF is isolated from the Arab 
masses. True, this is also because of Arab nationalist sentiments. 
However, the PKK/YPG historically has worked hard to isolate themselves 
from the Arab masses. They never defended an Arab or Muslim country 
suffering from imperialist aggression (I know it in the cases of Iraq in 
1990/91 as well as 2003 and I am pretty sure that this was also the case 
in Afghanistan 2001).


You say that the revolution must be spread to the whole of Syria. How 
true! But the PKK/YPG never supported the popular uprising! Instead, 
they kept their relations with the Assad regime and refused to join the 
uprising. By such they helped the regime to concentrate their forces to 
suppress the uprising.


Am 02.07.2019 um 23:45 schrieb Chris Slee:

Northeastern Syria is isolated and under threat from both Turkey (which has 
already invaded Afrin) and the Assad regime.  In this situation they take aid 
from whoever will offer it.  I believe that Saudi Arabia gives a small amount 
of humanitarian aid.

The Saudi regime's motives probably include its rivalry with Iran and Turkey for 
influence in the Middle East.  (The article mentions "the possibility of conflict 
with Iranian militias")

There is an obvious tension between the goal of building a democratic society 
in northeastern Syria and the need to receive aid from an undemocratic regime 
such as Saudi Arabia, as well as from US imperialism.

Trotsky said it is impossible to build socialism im one country.  Even less so 
is it possible to build socialism in part of a country, such as northeastern 
Syria.

The only solution is the spread of the revolution to the rest of Syria and/or 
to Turkey.

Chris Slee


From: Marxism  on behalf of RKOB via 
Marxism
Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 9:59:34 PM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

The so-called progressive YPG/SDF continues to receive full support by
the Saudi monarchy. According to a new report "Thamer al-Sabhan, Saudi
minister of state for Middle East affairs, visited Deir ez-Zor, where he
met with Kurdish leaders, US Deputy Secretary of State Joel Rayburn, US
Ambassador William Roebuck and a number of Arab sheikhs and dignitaries.
During his visit, Sabhan called on Arab tribes to join forces with the
Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) ..."

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/06/syria-deir-ez-zor-saudi-arabia-kurds-arab-tribes.html

--
Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG
(Österreichische Sektion der 
RCIT,www.thecommunists.net)
www.rkob.net
ak...@rkob.net
Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314



---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
_
Full posting guidelines at:http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options 
at:https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/chris_w_slee%40hotmail.com


--
Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG
(Österreichische Sektion der RCIT,www.thecommunists.net)
www.rkob.net
ak...@rkob.net
Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314

_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

2019-07-02 Thread Chris Slee via Marxism 
  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Northeastern Syria is isolated and under threat from both Turkey (which has 
already invaded Afrin) and the Assad regime.  In this situation they take aid 
from whoever will offer it.  I believe that Saudi Arabia gives a small amount 
of humanitarian aid.

The Saudi regime's motives probably include its rivalry with Iran and Turkey 
for influence in the Middle East.  (The article mentions "the possibility of 
conflict with Iranian militias")

There is an obvious tension between the goal of building a democratic society 
in northeastern Syria and the need to receive aid from an undemocratic regime 
such as Saudi Arabia, as well as from US imperialism.

Trotsky said it is impossible to build socialism im one country.  Even less so 
is it possible to build socialism in part of a country, such as northeastern 
Syria.

The only solution is the spread of the revolution to the rest of Syria and/or 
to Turkey.

Chris Slee


From: Marxism  on behalf of RKOB via 
Marxism 
Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 9:59:34 PM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: [Marxism] Saudi Support for "left-wing" YPG/SDF

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

The so-called progressive YPG/SDF continues to receive full support by
the Saudi monarchy. According to a new report "Thamer al-Sabhan, Saudi
minister of state for Middle East affairs, visited Deir ez-Zor, where he
met with Kurdish leaders, US Deputy Secretary of State Joel Rayburn, US
Ambassador William Roebuck and a number of Arab sheikhs and dignitaries.
During his visit, Sabhan called on Arab tribes to join forces with the
Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) ..."

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/06/syria-deir-ez-zor-saudi-arabia-kurds-arab-tribes.html

--
Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG
(Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, 
www.thecommunists.net)
www.rkob.net
ak...@rkob.net
Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314



---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/chris_w_slee%40hotmail.com

_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com