M-TH: Two things at once (NATO *and* Serbian aggression)
Dave B writes in reply to John W in Manchester: In response to John; 1. Dual defensism? Defense against imperialism takes priority. But Kosovars should defend themselves also against any Serb oppression. Right. Note that the Serb regime represents on the one hand an oppressed nation being attacked by imperialism (like Iraq) and on the other an oppressor nation with a clear record of fascist Master Race (in this case Greater Serb) claims over and against other nations. The one doesn't cancel out the other. (Compare under 2, where we can understand what's happening better if we remember the Chinese experience of resisting Japanese imperialism in a united front with the fascist butcher Chiang Kai-Shek -- not a popular front and not a situation where defence against imperialism required ignoring Chiang's butchery within the borders of his nation. It's not too great a strain to realize that the class independence required in China is a clear analogy to the national independence required in regard to Kosova and its need for self-determination. If Chiang (in the present case Milosevic) fails to make the struggle against imperialism his highest priority, the mobilized people should be able to dump him for treason.) We hope that multiethnic militias can stop Serb oppression and unite workers against imperialism. Is this consistent with reality? Well, what else is? The 'reality' of today has been imperialism's revival of old ethnic differences. Only the united working class can overcome these differences in a new 'reality' of socialist federations. This is the weak, because relatively abstract, bit of Dave's argument. He abstracts from the reality of a growing popular mobilization on the part of the Kosovars that is led by a concrete organization, the KLA. He ignores the dynamic development of this group -- forgetting the ubiquity of arms in Albania after the uprising last year, and the pressures on a weak minority leadership of a great influx of young and oppressed men. Maybe the imperialist ties will win out in the absence of an explicit Trotskyist leadership so far, but the sitting KLA leadership fucked up by signing the Rambouillet cop-out which denied self-determination to Kosova and practically ordered the KLA to disarm. This treacherous accord has now been disowned by whoever's leading the KLA now, for the obvious reason that things are developing by the logic of social forces in historical movement, not just the plans laid out in the chancelleries of the imperialist powers. And the social forces in movement in Kosova (and stirring a little in Serbia) are those of first national liberation and second social justice (in terms of consciousness that is, in terms of historical clout the opposite holds -- no national justice without social justice ie workers' democracy to guarantee it). 2. Communist 'rhetoric'. John should know that communists must have a programme for all situations. In this situation it is the anti-imperialist united front. I might be located in NZ but the international tendency I belong to is spread over a number of countries. I agree that communists in oppressor countries have a first duty to mobilise their working class against NATO. But we also have to spell out the ABC's of communist leadership in oppressed countries as well. Otherwise workers will fall into the trap of popular fronts with their bourgeoisies. Exactly. And underlying this is the theory of the Permanent Revolution, in which the working class must realize what social power is latent in democratic demands such as national liberation and make sure they support these demands to the hilt while maintaining class independence and a capacity to construct workers' solutions to the deeper social problems caused by capitalist oppression so that the democratic problems not only get addressed and vindicated, but also find a lasting because non-bourgeois solution. 3. Most of the left is correct in giving unconditional support to Yugoslavia. Those who put conditions on this either by opposing Milosovic or supporting the KLA are offering a helping hand to NATO. The KLA is no limiting factor on the ability of Serbia to defend itself from NATO's aggression. The Serbian forces in Kosova are not defending Kosova or the Kosovars against anything, they're occupying it, violating it and slaughtering the people. If the Milosevic regime was in the least interested in focusing on the battle against NATO imperialism, it would immediately change its policy in Kosova, tell both the Serbs and the Kosovars what all this is really about, arm the Kosovars and offer its help to keep the imperialists out of Kosova. It would also arm the Serbian people and help them democratize the defensive battle against NATO. They would be able to immediately repel a dozen times more effectively any attacks against their factories, bridges, water supplies etc. NATO is already making a shocking balls-up of the propoganda battle as it is. Just imagine how it
SV: M-TH: Two things at once (NATO *and* Serbian aggression)
Hugh Replies! Right. Note that the Serb regime represents on the one hand an oppressed nation being attacked by imperialism (like Iraq) and on the other an oppressor nation with a clear record of fascist Master Race (in this case Greater Serb) claims over and against other nations. The one doesn't cancel out the other. "fascist master race"? Since when? The historical record of Serbia including the building of post war Yugoslavia was hardly based on "fascism" but expropriation of the bourgeoisie and the creation of a deformed workers state. The destruction of the Yugoslavian deformed workers state had more to to with all parties in the state turning to bourgeois nationalism. In fact the closest thing to fascism in the break up was hardly the SErb version of Nationalism but the Croatian variant including the rebirth of the Utasha.. (Compare under 2, where we can understand what's happening better if we remember the Chinese experience of resisting Japanese imperialism in a united front with the fascist butcher Chiang Kai-Shek -- not a popular front and not a situation where defence against imperialism required ignoring Chiang's butchery within the borders of his nation. It's not too great a strain to realize that the class independence required in China is a clear analogy to the national independence required in regard to Kosova and its need for self-determination. If Chiang (in the present case Milosevic) fails to make the struggle against imperialism his highest priority, the mobilized people should be able to dump him for treason.) Tritsky was certainly correct on China. But Kosovo is not China. In fact the arguement here is posed in the context of defending Serbia without giving one bit of political support to the Milosevich regime. It is the Serbs who are being attacked by imperialism and not the Kosovars. In fact the KLA is the fith column of NATO in all of this. Dave.. We hope that multiethnic militias can stop Serb oppression and unite workers against imperialism. Is this consistent with reality? Well, what else is? The 'reality' of today has been imperialism's revival of old ethnic differences. Only the united working class can overcome these differences in a new 'reality' of socialist federations. Hugh replies! This is the weak, because relatively abstract, bit of Dave's argument. He abstracts from the reality of a growing popular mobilization on the part of the Kosovars that is led by a concrete organization, the KLA. He ignores the dynamic development of this group -- forgetting the ubiquity of arms in Albania after the uprising last year, and the pressures on a weak minority leadership of a great influx of young and oppressed men. Maybe the imperialist ties will win out in the absence of an explicit Trotskyist leadership so far, but the sitting KLA leadership fucked up by signing the Rambouillet cop-out which denied self-determination to Kosova and practically ordered the KLA to disarm. This treacherous accord has now been disowned by whoever's leading the KLA now, for the obvious reason that things are developing by the logic of social forces in historical movement, not just the plans laid out in the chancelleries of the imperialist powers. And the social forces in movement in Kosova (and stirring a little in Serbia) are those of first national liberation and second social justice (in terms of consciousness that is, in terms of historical clout the opposite holds -- no national justice without social justice ie workers' democracy to guarantee it). What Hugh means with Dave being "abstract" and "weak" in his arguements is that the Lcmcri are not quite as enthused in tailing the KLA as Hugh's group obviously wants too. Seems to me that it won't be long and the Morenoites will be shipping and "Internation brigade" to help the KLA and NATO out against the Serb "fascists"! Exactly. And underlying this is the theory of the Permanent Revolution, in which the working class must realize what social power is latent in democratic demands such as national liberation and make sure they support these demands to the hilt while maintaining class independence and a capacity to construct workers' solutions to the deeper social problems caused by capitalist oppression so that the democratic problems not only get addressed and vindicated, but also find a lasting because non-bourgeois solution. The line Hugh represents has nothing to do with permanent revolution. And in fact Dave's arguements about "multi ethic" militias in a way is more correct if it was under the banners of workers revolution. However they are not. In fact Dave raises the militia stuff in the context of their *own* false theory of the anti imperialist United Front which in the present war leaves them sitting on the fence and trying to creep out from seeing that the national question is subordinated to the viscious NATO attack on the Serbs. The KLA is no limiting
