Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Brutal vigor of the Middle Ages, ships and Masons

2005-10-19 Thread Waistline2
The degree of technological advancement in the middle ages is also 
underestimated. These are the people who built those cathedrals, invented 
three-field 
crop rotation, and a good many technological advances. Years ago I read a 
book by Lynn White on medieval technology. True, technological development took 
off sharply with the Industrial revolution, but that's at least 200 years after 
capitalism was firmly rooted in British soil (among other places). As Brenner 
has argued, the dividing line between feudalism and capitalism is property 
relations -- the productive relations -- not technology and the productive 
forces. 

 CB: Yes, not only the cathedrals, but the castles, maybe? I wonder about 
the masonic secret societies under the bourgeoisie as the descendents of some 
type of really functional stone masonic worker organizations from that 
period. 

Are there rational kernels or crumbs in alchemy ? 

* 

WL: I beg to differ with the entire formulation. To say the dividing line 
between feudalism and capitalism is property relations is self evident and 
circular in as much as feudalism means one form of property and capitalism 
means 
another form of property. 

Capitalism as such is a political term that according to Engels is short 
speak for commodity production on the basis of the bourgeois mode of 
production. 
From the standpoint of the development of commodity production and its gaining 
universality in human history as the value producing system, what divides the 
landed property relations from bourgeois property is not reducible to what 
distinguishes the landed property relations from bourgeois property relations. 

Political Feudalism is not the predominance of the value producing system or 
rather economic feudalism is a system of landed property relations with 
production contained within a pre-industrial form of productive relations and 
pre-industrial productive forces. Feudalism is an agrarian society. The 
transition 
from agrarian society to industrial society is often stated in short speak as 
from feudalism to capitalism, but this is inaccurate for my purposes, which 
includes explaining or discussing Soviet industrial society. 

In my opinion several things broke up the system of landed property and its 
political superstructure called feudalism or the political system of fief's. 
What divides feudalism from capitalism is bound up with the degree of 
development of commodity production or what is the same the role of exchange or 
the 
domination of exchange value as the relations of production. What facilitated 
the emergence and growth of exchange was the transition in the form of wealth 
from land as primary to gold or what Engels call movable property. 

The industrial revolution basically began as a result of Europeans landing in 
the Americas in search of El Dorado - gold. Basically means its beginnings 
in the transition of the manufacturing process on the basis of ship building 
That's what really broke up feudalism and lead to heavy manufacture, as opposed 
to a vision of capitalism emerging from the English countryside (I do not 
accuse you of this but merely stating a long held observation). 

Ship building, iron and steel industries, navigation sciences and the 
enormously profitable slave trade all developed as means to exploit the riches 
of the 
Americas. During was during the final eras of political feudalism and the 
landed property relations. For a moment lets totally forget about the black 
slaves as such and visualize the incredible human effort necessary to build 
enough 
ships to transport say a million people from Africa to the Americas. Someone 
had to make the nails and say a hundred thousand ankle and neck chains.  The 
canvas used on ships and water barrels and so on. 

The people doing this very critical laboring were incrementally torn out of 
the old social relations of production of agrarian society on the basis of 
first the town folks and the front of this process embraces what Marx calls the 
primitive (initial) accumulation of capital as a world transforming force. 

I am aware that an honorable section of Marxists define property relations 
apart from the actual facts and factors of production that serves as the basis 
of the daily life activity of people. I do view classes as being formed not on 
the basis of the form of property but changes in the material factors of 
production as primarily and fundamental at all times. 

As far as Masonic societies and their history goes you might seek out the 
book The Hiram Key.  Hiram was the Master builder of King Solomon's Temple 
and 
his foul murder has been ritualized as a rite of passage into modern Masonry. 

If you have friends who belong to the Masons they could perhaps give you an 
insight into their rituals. There are very many industrial workers that are 
Masons in Detroit and their recruitment is still more secret than that of the 
communists. Prince 

[Marxism-Thaxis] Brutal vigor of the Middle Ages

2005-10-18 Thread Charles Brown
V2: In fact, both premedieval and medieval/feudal society was much more 
active than high school history books would have us believe.  After all, the

so called middle ages witnessed repeated urban and peasant uprisings and 
efforts to establish utopias e.g. the Hussites of Mt Tabor and the 
Anabaptist regime of Munster and was a period of impressive advances in 
manufacturing technology.  Remember, that the flowering of the natural 
sciences and technology of the 16 and 17th centuries preceded Capitalist 
Industrial society by 300 to 200 years.

^^
CB: I'd like to discuss revisionary history of the Dark Ages.


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