Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On Fri, 2019-12-13 at 11:00 +1100, Timothy Arceri wrote: > On 13/12/19 10:15 am, Alex Deucher wrote: > > What does the name matter? The name is the least of your worries. > > What if their patch uses a patented algorithm? Does anyone check > > for > > that? The whole Signed-off-by thing just just hazing for newbs. > > Someone took the time to write and submit a patch. We trust they > > did > > the right thing and didn't do anything illegal. It's on the > > reviewers > > to determine if the patch is reasonable and should be applied. The > > name is just window dressing. > > Yes exactly the name is just window dressing, where a window dressing > is > "designed to create a favourable impression". In this case to make > our > project look competently and professionally run at a glance. I've > been > lucky enough to be employed to work on this project for around 5 > years > now, but don't expect this to last forever. Eventually I'd like to > be > able to point out to future employers the work I've been doing for > all > this time. Personally I'd like the window dressing to look nice when > this time comes. > > If other developers don't care which was my original question then > I'll > stop wasting my time requesting people not use such author names. We review code, not people. I agree that we should prefer a 'real' name, but we shouldn't require it. Some people may have a good reason to conceal their identity. I get what you mean, but why do you feel that allowing people to contribute using a nickname is unprofessional? You can still tell your (hypothetical) future employer that you worked on a high-profile free / open source project where several big companies managed to work together. The fact that contributions from amateurs (with or without a 'proper' name) is accepted I think makes the project look better, not worse. Just my 20 cents. Best regards, Tim ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On 13/12/19 10:15 am, Alex Deucher wrote: What does the name matter? The name is the least of your worries. What if their patch uses a patented algorithm? Does anyone check for that? The whole Signed-off-by thing just just hazing for newbs. Someone took the time to write and submit a patch. We trust they did the right thing and didn't do anything illegal. It's on the reviewers to determine if the patch is reasonable and should be applied. The name is just window dressing. Yes exactly the name is just window dressing, where a window dressing is "designed to create a favourable impression". In this case to make our project look competently and professionally run at a glance. I've been lucky enough to be employed to work on this project for around 5 years now, but don't expect this to last forever. Eventually I'd like to be able to point out to future employers the work I've been doing for all this time. Personally I'd like the window dressing to look nice when this time comes. If other developers don't care which was my original question then I'll stop wasting my time requesting people not use such author names. Alex On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 5:42 PM Timothy Arceri wrote: On 13/12/19 1:54 am, Daniel Stone wrote: On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 22:35, Timothy Arceri wrote: So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that point of view either. Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar to me. What benefit does it bring? Icecream95 could just resubmit as 'John Johnson'; would we just take that as face value that that was their 'real name' and accept the contribution? I know someone in Australia who changed their name via deed poll to Stormy Wrathcauser (changed slightly to protect their privacy, but very close). Would we accept their contribution if they posted, or would we have to stop and take measures to verify that that was their real legal name? What about Chinese contributors, who as noted in thread tend to use made-up non-legal pseudonyms anyway? Unless we're actually trying to bring up and enforce a web of trust, I don't think there's any point in requiring that the submitter's name conforms to some notion of idealised naming - it's just window dressing. I also don't see any point in trying to enforce a web of trust. Debian's method of doing this involves a hundred people standing around in a room looking at drivers' licenses from countries they might not have even heard of before to verify identity. But I'm certainly not an expert at identifying whether or not a Bolivian drivers' license which is put in front of my face is forged or not, and suspect no-one on this list is. If someone is determined to compromise the legal integrity of Mesa's codebase, requiring that they register as Juan Molinos or any other name which seems like it could be 'legitimate' is not really any barrier to entry. Hi Daniel, I've already given my personal thoughts on all these questions in the various threads, ultimately I was just asking if we should use a little common sense here. If people don't want to apply this extremely low bar, then so be it. Let the contributions from atom symbols and inanimate objects flow in. ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
What does the name matter? The name is the least of your worries. What if their patch uses a patented algorithm? Does anyone check for that? The whole Signed-off-by thing just just hazing for newbs. Someone took the time to write and submit a patch. We trust they did the right thing and didn't do anything illegal. It's on the reviewers to determine if the patch is reasonable and should be applied. The name is just window dressing. Alex On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 5:42 PM Timothy Arceri wrote: > > > > On 13/12/19 1:54 am, Daniel Stone wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 22:35, Timothy Arceri wrote: > >> So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made > >> up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the > >> name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the > >> integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem > >> ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that > >> point of view either. > >> > >> Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper > >> name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar > >> to me. > > > > What benefit does it bring? > > > > Icecream95 could just resubmit as 'John Johnson'; would we just take > > that as face value that that was their 'real name' and accept the > > contribution? > > > > I know someone in Australia who changed their name via deed poll to > > Stormy Wrathcauser (changed slightly to protect their privacy, but > > very close). Would we accept their contribution if they posted, or > > would we have to stop and take measures to verify that that was their > > real legal name? > > > > What about Chinese contributors, who as noted in thread tend to use > > made-up non-legal pseudonyms anyway? > > > > Unless we're actually trying to bring up and enforce a web of trust, I > > don't think there's any point in requiring that the submitter's name > > conforms to some notion of idealised naming - it's just window > > dressing. I also don't see any point in trying to enforce a web of > > trust. Debian's method of doing this involves a hundred people > > standing around in a room looking at drivers' licenses from countries > > they might not have even heard of before to verify identity. But I'm > > certainly not an expert at identifying whether or not a Bolivian > > drivers' license which is put in front of my face is forged or not, > > and suspect no-one on this list is. > > > > If someone is determined to compromise the legal integrity of Mesa's > > codebase, requiring that they register as Juan Molinos or any other > > name which seems like it could be 'legitimate' is not really any > > barrier to entry. > > > > Hi Daniel, > > I've already given my personal thoughts on all these questions in the > various threads, ultimately I was just asking if we should use a little > common sense here. If people don't want to apply this extremely low bar, > then so be it. Let the contributions from atom symbols and inanimate > objects flow in. > ___ > mesa-dev mailing list > mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org > https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On 13/12/19 1:54 am, Daniel Stone wrote: On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 22:35, Timothy Arceri wrote: So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that point of view either. Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar to me. What benefit does it bring? Icecream95 could just resubmit as 'John Johnson'; would we just take that as face value that that was their 'real name' and accept the contribution? I know someone in Australia who changed their name via deed poll to Stormy Wrathcauser (changed slightly to protect their privacy, but very close). Would we accept their contribution if they posted, or would we have to stop and take measures to verify that that was their real legal name? What about Chinese contributors, who as noted in thread tend to use made-up non-legal pseudonyms anyway? Unless we're actually trying to bring up and enforce a web of trust, I don't think there's any point in requiring that the submitter's name conforms to some notion of idealised naming - it's just window dressing. I also don't see any point in trying to enforce a web of trust. Debian's method of doing this involves a hundred people standing around in a room looking at drivers' licenses from countries they might not have even heard of before to verify identity. But I'm certainly not an expert at identifying whether or not a Bolivian drivers' license which is put in front of my face is forged or not, and suspect no-one on this list is. If someone is determined to compromise the legal integrity of Mesa's codebase, requiring that they register as Juan Molinos or any other name which seems like it could be 'legitimate' is not really any barrier to entry. Hi Daniel, I've already given my personal thoughts on all these questions in the various threads, ultimately I was just asking if we should use a little common sense here. If people don't want to apply this extremely low bar, then so be it. Let the contributions from atom symbols and inanimate objects flow in. ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 22:35, Timothy Arceri wrote: > So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made > up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the > name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the > integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem > ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that > point of view either. > > Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper > name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar > to me. What benefit does it bring? Icecream95 could just resubmit as 'John Johnson'; would we just take that as face value that that was their 'real name' and accept the contribution? I know someone in Australia who changed their name via deed poll to Stormy Wrathcauser (changed slightly to protect their privacy, but very close). Would we accept their contribution if they posted, or would we have to stop and take measures to verify that that was their real legal name? What about Chinese contributors, who as noted in thread tend to use made-up non-legal pseudonyms anyway? Unless we're actually trying to bring up and enforce a web of trust, I don't think there's any point in requiring that the submitter's name conforms to some notion of idealised naming - it's just window dressing. I also don't see any point in trying to enforce a web of trust. Debian's method of doing this involves a hundred people standing around in a room looking at drivers' licenses from countries they might not have even heard of before to verify identity. But I'm certainly not an expert at identifying whether or not a Bolivian drivers' license which is put in front of my face is forged or not, and suspect no-one on this list is. If someone is determined to compromise the legal integrity of Mesa's codebase, requiring that they register as Juan Molinos or any other name which seems like it could be 'legitimate' is not really any barrier to entry. Cheers, Daniel ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
> > My 2 cents, which take with a grain of salt given that I'm an "every once in a while" contributor... This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the integrity of the > project. I understand the sentiment of project professionalism, but also keep in mind that not every contributor is a professional. That definitely doesn't devalue their contribution and is part of what makes a community driven open source project. Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper > name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar to > me. I would caution against having such a policy that may inadvertently send the wrong message of "We only want 'real' software developers so if that's not you then your contribution isn't really welcome." I don't believe that's your intent here and it might seem like a stretch but I think a policy could come across that way or at least have that sentiment if not worded carefully. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that point of view either. I personally think it's okay to have "anonymous" contributions with the only real issue being copyright assignment, which (not a lawyer here but...) I think could be reasonably addressed through a policy of "anonymous contributors agree to assign copyright of contributed code to the project itself" or something of the sort. That's really a topic for it's own discussion though. - Chuck ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On 12/12/19 5:46, Mark Janes wrote: Ian Romanick writes: On 12/11/19 2:27 PM, Timothy Arceri wrote: Hi, So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that point of view either. Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar to me. First we don't allow single Unicode characters or emojis, and now you want to require realistic looking names. Where does it end, Tim?!? WHERE DOES IT END??? 藍 But seriously... I definitely agree with the sentiment. It seems really lame to have a bunch of commits from clearly nonsense names. Who are these randos? Perhaps they are graphics developers working at corporations where management is not enthusiastic about contributions to mesa? Or, agents seeking to damage mesa by submitting vulnerable or IP-entangled code? The kernel does not allow anonymous contributions, to ensure all contributions are compatible with the GPL. Out of curiosity: and how far they go to ensure that they are not anonymous contributions? So for this case, why Icecream95 is not anonymous ? It is a nickname that after a quick googling he has been using for a long time now, so he is already known by that nickname. Where's the accountability? As far as any possible legal aspects go, since we don't require (as far as I'm aware) submitters to sign any sort of certificate of origin, I don't know that Icecream95 is any better or worse than Ralphio Grant (a realistic looking name that I just made up) or Ian Romanck. It seems to me that this is a social problem, so it likely has a social solution. If we don't want people to be anonymous cowards with clearly phony names, we should try to make the alternatives of being involved in the community and using a real name more attractive. We should do our best to encourage people to "do the right thing." I don't think it's very realistic for us to try to compel people to do so, and I don't think there's much value in it... especially if it drives away people making technically competent contributions. [1] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/merge_requests/3050#note_361924 ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On 12/12/19 0:38, Eric Engestrom wrote: On 2019-12-11 at 23:09, Eric Anholt wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:35 PM Timothy Arceri wrote: Hi, So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that point of view either. Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar to me. I'm of the opinion that in fact all names are made up, Whole heartedly agreed. Remember that many different cultures exist, and they have different customs around names. As an example, a teacher of mine had a single name, but the school required two separate "first name" and "last name" fields so he wrote his name twice, which appeared on every form we got from the school, yet everyone knew he didn't have what we called a "last name"/"family name". Just adding another example: or like in Spain where we have two surnames (the usual naming template is ), but we usually just use the first one on commits because it is what everybody else does. And similar to what Eric mentioned on that paragraph, any immigrant that gets the spanish nationality needs to provide two surnames, even in their country of origin they didn't have that, so it is usual that the second one is somewhat made-up. Another example is people from Asia who often assume a made up Western-sounding pseudonym to use when communicating with Western people, and those often don't look like real names to us. What looks like a real name to you? How would you even start to define such a rule? and we don't want to be getting into the business of requiring legal names for committing. If legal names were what you were getting at: have you checked the legal names of your fellow contributors match what they're contributing under? I don't know what legal risk you might be thinking of, that seems like spreading fear for no reason to me. ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
Ian Romanick writes: > On 12/11/19 2:27 PM, Timothy Arceri wrote: >> Hi, >> >> So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made >> up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the >> name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the >> integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem >> ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that >> point of view either. >> >> Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper >> name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar >> to me. > > First we don't allow single Unicode characters or emojis, and now you > want to require realistic looking names. Where does it end, Tim?!? > WHERE DOES IT END??? > > 藍 > > But seriously... I definitely agree with the sentiment. It seems really > lame to have a bunch of commits from clearly nonsense names. Who are > these randos? Perhaps they are graphics developers working at corporations where management is not enthusiastic about contributions to mesa? Or, agents seeking to damage mesa by submitting vulnerable or IP-entangled code? The kernel does not allow anonymous contributions, to ensure all contributions are compatible with the GPL. > Where's the accountability? > > As far as any possible legal aspects go, since we don't require (as far > as I'm aware) submitters to sign any sort of certificate of origin, I > don't know that Icecream95 is any better or worse than Ralphio Grant (a > realistic looking name that I just made up) or Ian Romanck. > > It seems to me that this is a social problem, so it likely has a social > solution. If we don't want people to be anonymous cowards with clearly > phony names, we should try to make the alternatives of being involved in > the community and using a real name more attractive. We should do our > best to encourage people to "do the right thing." > > I don't think it's very realistic for us to try to compel people to do > so, and I don't think there's much value in it... especially if it > drives away people making technically competent contributions. > >> [1] >> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/merge_requests/3050#note_361924 >> ___ >> mesa-dev mailing list >> mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org >> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev > > ___ > mesa-dev mailing list > mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org > https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On 12/11/19 2:27 PM, Timothy Arceri wrote: > Hi, > > So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made > up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the > name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the > integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem > ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that > point of view either. > > Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper > name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar > to me. First we don't allow single Unicode characters or emojis, and now you want to require realistic looking names. Where does it end, Tim?!? WHERE DOES IT END??? 藍 But seriously... I definitely agree with the sentiment. It seems really lame to have a bunch of commits from clearly nonsense names. Who are these randos? Where's the accountability? As far as any possible legal aspects go, since we don't require (as far as I'm aware) submitters to sign any sort of certificate of origin, I don't know that Icecream95 is any better or worse than Ralphio Grant (a realistic looking name that I just made up) or Ian Romanck. It seems to me that this is a social problem, so it likely has a social solution. If we don't want people to be anonymous cowards with clearly phony names, we should try to make the alternatives of being involved in the community and using a real name more attractive. We should do our best to encourage people to "do the right thing." I don't think it's very realistic for us to try to compel people to do so, and I don't think there's much value in it... especially if it drives away people making technically competent contributions. > [1] > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/merge_requests/3050#note_361924 > ___ > mesa-dev mailing list > mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org > https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:47 PM Eric Engestrom wrote: > On 2019-12-11 at 23:46, Timothy Arceri wrote: > > On 12/12/19 10:38 am, Eric Engestrom wrote: > > > On 2019-12-11 at 23:09, Eric Anholt wrote: > > >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:35 PM Timothy Arceri > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with > made > > >>> up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the > > >>> name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up > the > > >>> integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem > > >>> ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that > > >>> point of view either. > > >>> > > >>> Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper > > >>> name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low > bar > > >>> to me. > > >> > > >> I'm of the opinion that in fact all names are made up, > > > > > > Whole heartedly agreed. > > > > > > Remember that many different cultures exist, and they have different > customs > > > around names. As an example, a teacher of mine had a single name, but > the school > > > required two separate "first name" and "last name" fields so he wrote > his name twice, > > > which appeared on every form we got from the school, yet everyone knew > he didn't > > > have what we called a "last name"/"family name". > > > Another example is people from Asia who often assume a made up > Western-sounding > > > pseudonym to use when communicating with Western people, and those > often don't > > > look like real names to us. > > > > > > What looks like a real name to you? > > > How would you even start to define such a rule? > > > > As per my reply to Eric Anholt I'm most concerned about the look of the > > project. IMO contributions with names like Icecream95 or an atom symbol > > just look unprofessional, opensource gets a hard enough time about its > > professionalism as it is without encouraging this. A little common sense > > can go a long way here. > > If you want to ask someone to provide a real name if you think they didn't > I definitely agree, > and if you want to document that we want real names I'm also ok with that, > but all I'm saying is that you can't *require* it because there's no > reliable way > to enforce that. > The question is about whether we require real names. If people lie, that's on them. Marek ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On 2019-12-11 at 23:46, Timothy Arceri wrote: > On 12/12/19 10:38 am, Eric Engestrom wrote: > > On 2019-12-11 at 23:09, Eric Anholt wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:35 PM Timothy Arceri > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made > >>> up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the > >>> name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the > >>> integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem > >>> ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that > >>> point of view either. > >>> > >>> Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper > >>> name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar > >>> to me. > >> > >> I'm of the opinion that in fact all names are made up, > > > > Whole heartedly agreed. > > > > Remember that many different cultures exist, and they have different customs > > around names. As an example, a teacher of mine had a single name, but the > > school > > required two separate "first name" and "last name" fields so he wrote his > > name twice, > > which appeared on every form we got from the school, yet everyone knew he > > didn't > > have what we called a "last name"/"family name". > > Another example is people from Asia who often assume a made up > > Western-sounding > > pseudonym to use when communicating with Western people, and those often > > don't > > look like real names to us. > > > > What looks like a real name to you? > > How would you even start to define such a rule? > > As per my reply to Eric Anholt I'm most concerned about the look of the > project. IMO contributions with names like Icecream95 or an atom symbol > just look unprofessional, opensource gets a hard enough time about its > professionalism as it is without encouraging this. A little common sense > can go a long way here. If you want to ask someone to provide a real name if you think they didn't I definitely agree, and if you want to document that we want real names I'm also ok with that, but all I'm saying is that you can't *require* it because there's no reliable way to enforce that. > > > > >> and we don't > >> want to be getting into the business of requiring legal names for > >> committing. If legal names were what you were getting at: have you > >> checked the legal names of your fellow contributors match what they're > >> contributing under? > >> > >> I don't know what legal risk you might be thinking of, that seems like > >> spreading fear for no reason to me. > ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On 12/12/19 10:38 am, Eric Engestrom wrote: On 2019-12-11 at 23:09, Eric Anholt wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:35 PM Timothy Arceri wrote: Hi, So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that point of view either. Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar to me. I'm of the opinion that in fact all names are made up, Whole heartedly agreed. Remember that many different cultures exist, and they have different customs around names. As an example, a teacher of mine had a single name, but the school required two separate "first name" and "last name" fields so he wrote his name twice, which appeared on every form we got from the school, yet everyone knew he didn't have what we called a "last name"/"family name". Another example is people from Asia who often assume a made up Western-sounding pseudonym to use when communicating with Western people, and those often don't look like real names to us. What looks like a real name to you? How would you even start to define such a rule? As per my reply to Eric Anholt I'm most concerned about the look of the project. IMO contributions with names like Icecream95 or an atom symbol just look unprofessional, opensource gets a hard enough time about its professionalism as it is without encouraging this. A little common sense can go a long way here. and we don't want to be getting into the business of requiring legal names for committing. If legal names were what you were getting at: have you checked the legal names of your fellow contributors match what they're contributing under? I don't know what legal risk you might be thinking of, that seems like spreading fear for no reason to me. ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On 2019-12-11 at 23:09, Eric Anholt wrote: > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:35 PM Timothy Arceri wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made > > up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the > > name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the > > integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem > > ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that > > point of view either. > > > > Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper > > name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar > > to me. > > I'm of the opinion that in fact all names are made up, Whole heartedly agreed. Remember that many different cultures exist, and they have different customs around names. As an example, a teacher of mine had a single name, but the school required two separate "first name" and "last name" fields so he wrote his name twice, which appeared on every form we got from the school, yet everyone knew he didn't have what we called a "last name"/"family name". Another example is people from Asia who often assume a made up Western-sounding pseudonym to use when communicating with Western people, and those often don't look like real names to us. What looks like a real name to you? How would you even start to define such a rule? > and we don't > want to be getting into the business of requiring legal names for > committing. If legal names were what you were getting at: have you > checked the legal names of your fellow contributors match what they're > contributing under? > > I don't know what legal risk you might be thinking of, that seems like > spreading fear for no reason to me. ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On 12/12/19 10:09 am, Eric Anholt wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:35 PM Timothy Arceri wrote: Hi, So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that point of view either. Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar to me. I'm of the opinion that in fact all names are made up, and we don't want to be getting into the business of requiring legal names for committing. If legal names were what you were getting at: have you checked the legal names of your fellow contributors match what they're contributing under? My question was: "do others agree we should at least require a proper name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)?" I don't know what legal risk you might be thinking of, that seems like spreading fear for no reason to me. If the implications aren't obvious I'm not going to bother arguing further, as I'm not a legal expert. I'm more concerned about the look of the project. IMO contributions with names like Icecream95 just look unprofessional. ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
Re: [Mesa-dev] Requiring a full author name when contributing to mesa?
On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:35 PM Timothy Arceri wrote: > > Hi, > > So it seems lately we have been increasingly merging patches with made > up names, or single names etc [1]. The latest submitted patch has the > name Icecream95. This seems wrong to me from a point of keeping up the > integrity of the project. I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem > ideal to be amassing commits with these type of author tags from that > point of view either. > > Is it just me or do others agree we should at least require a proper > name on the commits (as fake as that may be also)? Seems like a low bar > to me. I'm of the opinion that in fact all names are made up, and we don't want to be getting into the business of requiring legal names for committing. If legal names were what you were getting at: have you checked the legal names of your fellow contributors match what they're contributing under? I don't know what legal risk you might be thinking of, that seems like spreading fear for no reason to me. ___ mesa-dev mailing list mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/mesa-dev
