Re: [meteorite-list] Expensive?
About 2 years ago I read in Meteorite Magazine that Chassigny traded for $175,000.00 per gram, either at Tucson or Ensisheim, not sure which. The price was based on a purchase of a very small amount, weight wise. As for the most valuable material Tom, I have some micro crystals that I sell to the metaphysical folks for $10.00 to $30.00 each. Some are barely visible and weigh as little as 1/10,000th of a gram... You do the math! Another good point. I don't think specs should count when trying to determine the most expensive. Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Expensive?
Sterling asked: The interesting question is: how much longer will a general decline in meteorite prices continue? Is it a lull? A temporary dip? A re-adjustment? A momentary oversupply? A slide? Was there a "bubble"? Is this "normal"? *** Hello List, I was told that Glen Huss sold out when he did, back in the 1980s, because he, as the foremost expert in the field of marketing meteorites at the time, was confident that the market had reached it's peak and couldn't go any higher. I agree with Adam, add 10% growth (not to mention 100% or 1000% growth) to the number of active collectors and watch the demand outpace the supply very quickly. The reason prices have been falling in the last 3 or 4 years is that the supply increased 1000% a year compared to probably a flatline in the demand side. I actually am surprised that prices haven't dropped lower. Will the values rise in the future? Who knows, probably. Will they go lower before going higher? Who knows, maybe. But maybe not. Ask me in 5 years and I will be in a better position to tell you. Steve Arnold
[meteorite-list] Meteorite prices
Hi Sterling and List, While there are short term fluctuations from availability and medium term fluctuations from how rare a type is (like lunars), there is clearly a moderately long term trend over the last three to five years of declining meteorite prices. Absolutely right. A classic case of a free-market economy at work. Increasing demand, but GREATLY increasing supply. DeBeers has the power to do the same thing to diamonds, but obviously has no vested interest in doing so. Prior to NWA, meteorite prices slowly increased to compensate for a slowly increasing pool of meteorite collectors. This slow increase in demand was largely due to the internet -- eBay in particular. Until supply levels off, or at least stays a step behind demand, prices will continue to fall. This is especially true for the type collector who is interested in classifications not find/fall locations. Now if you collect locations -- especially historic falls -- then NWA has less power to affect those prices. But some locations are collected in large part *because* of their type rarity (e.g. Winona), in which case new hot desert finds of the same type will dilute the market and the price for that type. The interesting question is: how much longer will a general decline in meteorite prices continue? Is it a lull? A temporary dip? A re-adjustment? A momentary oversupply? A slide? Was there a bubble? Is this normal? Ask the nomads of northern Africa. It's a huge area, with not that many people searching it (I don't know what the number of people is, but if it's less than 10,000 they haven't had the time to cover even a tiny fraction of the Sahara.) Obviously with retail and wholesale prices falling, there is a point at which even the nomads won't bother picking them up, so there is a price stabilization point. I'd say we're approaching that point, but we may not be there yet. We also have to keep in mind that the market for meteorites cannot be decoupled from the economy in general -- meteorites are a luxury item, not a necessity. When unemployment is still on the rise and the economy is sluggish, how do you justify expenditures on non- essentials? On a final, humorous (?) note: as much as this group has ridiculed Michael Casper over the years, if he was really only into meteorites for the money, you have to take your hat off to him for getting out when he did. A true market timer. ;-) --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Expensive?
Hello Steve and List While not being any where near even a good and knowledgeable collector yet. I do notice things, and the 10% increase in collectors over a few months has been born out on Ebay alone. I have been selling opal on Ebay since 97, and although not real active right now, saw sellers increase from 5, back then, where I was listing a full 1/4 of the opal rough seen on Ebay, to well over 75 dealers off and on. Many of whom are past customers. The markets tend to create themselves when theres a hobby involved (or a fad, for those who read business rags) and when you add the daily increase in internet users, meteoritics can see possibly 2-3 new collectors every two months or less( I would see a new opal buyer about once a month year round). You will also see there is a definite cycle to spending on Ebay. The summer being a slow period for opals anyway, and prices for more common meteorites could nose-dive and people expect the rarer types to follow suit. Theres a lot of hub-bub about whats coming out of the White House regarding economics, and much will affect the little guy. Haven't seen a program in the last 30 yrs that didn't cause the little guy to hold on to his pennies just a little bit harder each time one was announced. Once the fod from on high is in effect and people figure ways to live with or around it, prices will change due to new hobbyists and surplus money. Of course, theres always surplus money where its hard to stop horticulturists of certain plants that have a high resale value and collections are a great way to launder and invest money without tax people seeing it. Mark - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Expensive? Sterling asked: The interesting question is: how much longer will a general declinein meteorite prices continue? Is it a lull? A temporary dip? Are-adjustment? A momentary oversupply? A slide? Was there a "bubble"? Isthis "normal"?***Hello List,I was told that Glen Huss sold out when he did, back in the 1980s, because he, as the foremost expert in the field of marketing meteorites at the time, was confident that the market had reached it's peak and couldn't go any higher.I agree with Adam, add 10% growth (not to mention 100% or 1000% growth) to the number of active collectors and watch the demand outpace the supply very quickly. The reason prices have been falling in the last 3 or 4 years is that the supply increased 1000% a year compared to probably a flatline in the demand side. I actually am surprised that prices haven't dropped lower. Will the values rise in the future? Who knows, probably. Will they go lower before going higher? Who knows, maybe. But maybe not. Ask me in 5 years and I will be in a better position to tell you.Steve Arnold
[meteorite-list] Meteorite prices
Hello again Sterling and List, I used to run a technology corporation and consumer electronics is a completely different beast. Technology drives computer hardware into obsolescence before it is even in a resellers inventory and the supply is unlimited tagging both the consumer and the distributor. The problem with meteorites is a supply and demand issue, as well. Where it differs is there is no such thing as obsolescence or unlimited supply when discussing meteorites. It may appear there is an unlimited supply because of the surplus coming out of NWA right now and this has affected price. An even bigger problem is consumer confidence. When the last generation of collectors decided to cash in at the first signs of decline it snowballed just like the stock market. Add an increase in supply from NWA and a bad economy and you have all the proper conditions for a long-term decline. The market will turn around through proper promotion of meteorites (educating people to appreciate what they represent), decreased supply from NWA which is already showing signs of slowing down and when dealers realize meteorites are not commodities. Dealers who sell meteorites like commodities will not be around too long because their margins will shrink to unbearable levels and they will not be able to sell enough volume to offset this lack of profit. Its called a thinning of resources (money). If you do not leave enough money to restock then you are out of business. I could go on forever about this but I have to pack for a short four-day expedition. All the best, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Did italian Meteorite Impact Convert Constantine to Christianity ???
See the below articles. 1. Space impact 'saved Christianity' By Dr David Whitehouse,BBC News Online science editor Did a meteor over central Italy in AD 312 change the course of Roman and Christian history? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3013146.stm 2. Christianity: Came from Outer Space? By Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery News http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20030623/constantine.html 3. It Came From Outer Space And Spread The Gospel By rickyjames, Section News Posted on Sat Jun 21st, 2003 at 11:20:38 AM EST http://www.sciscoop.com/story/2003/6/21/112038/651 As reported by Ananova, an asteroid which exploded like a nuclear bomb may have converted the Roman emperor Constantine to Christianity, assuring that religion a prominent subsequent place in human history. Accounts from the 4th century describe how barbarians stood at the gates of the Roman empire while a Christian movement threatened its stability from within. It is said the emperor saw an amazing vision in the sky, converted to Christianity on the spot, and led his army to victory under the sign of the cross. 4. Ananova: 'Asteroid impact could have prompted Constantine's conversion' http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_791768.html Yours, paul Baton Rouge, LA __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite prices
Hi Adam and all, Several people have made excellent points about the Meteorite Market downturn of the last several years. They are all right, as MANY, MANY factors went into this downturn. However, there is more to the story Look foreword to my METEORITE MARKET TRENDS column in the July issue of METEORITE TIMES. Best wishes, Michael on 6/27/03 12:09 AM, Adam Hupe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again Sterling and List, I used to run a technology corporation and consumer electronics is a completely different beast. Technology drives computer hardware into obsolescence before it is even in a resellers inventory and the supply is unlimited tagging both the consumer and the distributor. The problem with meteorites is a supply and demand issue, as well. Where it differs is there is no such thing as obsolescence or unlimited supply when discussing meteorites. It may appear there is an unlimited supply because of the surplus coming out of NWA right now and this has affected price. An even bigger problem is consumer confidence. When the last generation of collectors decided to cash in at the first signs of decline it snowballed just like the stock market. Add an increase in supply from NWA and a bad economy and you have all the proper conditions for a long-term decline. The market will turn around through proper promotion of meteorites (educating people to appreciate what they represent), decreased supply from NWA which is already showing signs of slowing down and when dealers realize meteorites are not commodities. Dealers who sell meteorites like commodities will not be around too long because their margins will shrink to unbearable levels and they will not be able to sell enough volume to offset this lack of profit. Its called a thinning of resources (money). If you do not leave enough money to restock then you are out of business. I could go on forever about this but I have to pack for a short four-day expedition. All the best, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list I stand by all the misstatements that I've made. ...George W. Bush to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93 -- Worth Seeing: - Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm - Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Panoramic view of Meteor Crater: http://www.virtualguidebooks.com/Arizona/GrandCanyonRoute66/MeteorCrater/Met eorCraterRimL.html -- Cool Calendar Clock: http://www.yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites Didgeridoos for sale at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Oriented Camel Donga
Anyone interested in seeing a KILLER oriented Camel Donga (3 photos from different angles), go to http://community.webshots.com/album/78343930oFlOKd Best wishes, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] HUGE NWA Meteorite sale on Ebay
I have listed over $15,000 worth of mostly NWA meteorites on ebay over the past week. Some have been bought with buy it now but I just checked and it showed me having 252 open meteorites auctions on ebay right now and I have plans of listing more over the weekend. Listed are dozens of large over a kilo meteorites so if you want that huge showpiece this is the best time in history to pick one up cheap. See here for my meteorite auctions: http://tinyurl.com/fgnm It this link dont work just do a search on my ebay user id AMUNRE Sincerely DEAN BESSEY www.meteoriteshop.com __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Henbury Crater Photos
A customer sent me a few Henbury crater photos and I asked if I could share them.I had never seen any modern photos of what the crater looks like from the ground so I though others might be interested in seeing them as well. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colhenburycrater.html Looks like some rough hiking area. Perhaps I should have voted different on my meteorite pole Mark BostickPlease visit, www.MeteoriteArticles.com, a free on-line archive of meteor and meteorite articles.
[meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
Hello List, I have an ethical question I would like to get some feedback on. I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a specimen he purchased a month or so ago from me that he wants to return now. His request was not based on the fact that the specimen was damaged or otherwise in a different condition than described when it was sold to him. The request he felt was justified because he thinks the specimen is now not worth as much as he paid for it bach then. He seems to think he can get the same thing for a lower price elsewhere. So I assume he wants the refund to go buy the other cheaper specimen to replace the one he wants to give back to me. While I do guarantee authenticity and that the specimens are as described on all my specimens I sell, I do not have a Walmart style lowest price guarantee, that the person cannot find a similar specimen somewhere else in the present or in the future for a lower price. If someone bought something and didn't like it for whatever reason and wanted to return it promptly for a refund, that would be one thing but this is another. I find this refund request unreasonable and bordering on unethical. A similar but opposite request would be if I would contact buyers a month after I sold them a specimen and demanded that they let me buy back a specimen I sold them a month earlier because new information tells me that I sold it to them too cheap and that if I had it back at the price I sold it, I could turn around and sell it to someone for an even higher price. That request would be absurd. As I recall, there is just one dealer that offers a written lifetime guarantee to buy back any specimens at the customers purchase prices. However, one would expect that having a stated guarantee such as that would help such a dealer to generate more than enough extra sales to cover the losses when a meteorite genuinely drops in value and a few people decide to take that dealer up on his offer. But without offering that incentive to make all the extra sales along the way, a dealer could go bankrupt giving refunds on demand for price fluctuation reasons. I guess my question is, how would some of the other dealers respond to such a request? Has anyone had such a request nade if them? And for collectors out there, do you feel making such a request (and expecting it to be fulfilled) is reasonable? Would a direct purchase be different from an ebay purchase? Steve Arnold
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
Let me comment from a collector's viewpoint. The person asking you to refund their money is an idiot. I've bought several meteorites that have declined in price. (Anyone want to buy 0.5 gram of Zagami at $1500 per gram?) And while my transaction took place a few years ago (at the height of the ALH84001 craze), I bought it and that's my problem. If I want to buy a piece of meteorite "X", I look around for who has some for sale. If only one dealer is offering it, I look at their price and decide if I wish to pay it. If so, and a few weeks/months later I see it for lessOh well...tough crap. If more than one dealer has it, then the aesthetics of the pieces available must be considered. Sometimes the cheapest specimen is cheapest for a reason. If you guarantee authenticity for life (which I think/hope you do), that's another thing, but for this person to ask you to refund their price after this long, and after TELLING you that they found it cheaper (?!?!)well, that's not too bright on their part. The only thing you might want to consider is the possibility of this person becoming a return customer. But then again, if this is their modus operandi, maybe you don't want them as a customer. Just my 2 grams worth. Craig
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
Hello Steve and List, Please make this one public, I want to hear the answers. I am not a seller just a buyer, But as a buyer I would never ask for a refund for that reason. If the meteorite was misrepresented, that might be different. I know I have paid to much for meteorites before, But that was my fault, not the sellers! I bet most people paid to much for their first meteorites. Steve, unless you were misleading, do not do it! Thanks, TomThe proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 7:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds Hello List,I have an ethical question I would like to get some feedback on.I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a specimen he purchased a month or so ago from me that he wants to return now. His request was not based on the fact that the specimen was damaged or otherwise in a different condition than described when it was sold to him.The request he felt was justified because he thinks the specimen is now not worth as much as he paid for it bach then. He seems to think he can get the same thing for a lower price elsewhere. So I assume he wants the refund to go buy the other cheaper specimen to replace the one he wants to give back to me.While I do guarantee authenticity and that the specimens are as described on all my specimens I sell, I do not have a Walmart style lowest price guarantee, that the person cannot find a similar specimen somewhere else in the present or in the future for a lower price. If someone bought something and didn't like it for whatever reason and wanted to return it promptly for a refund, that would be one thing but this is another.I find this refund request unreasonable and bordering on unethical. A similar but opposite request would be if I would contact buyers a month after I sold them a specimen and demanded that they let me buy back a specimen I sold them a month earlier because new information tells me that I sold it to them too cheap and that if I had it back at the price I sold it, I could turn around and sell it to someone for an even higher price. That request would be absurd.As I recall, there is just one dealer that offers a written lifetime guarantee to buy back any specimens at the customers purchase prices. However, one would expect that having a stated guarantee such as that would help such a dealer to generate more than enough extra sales to cover the losses when a meteorite genuinely drops in value and a few people decide to take that dealer up on his offer. But without offering that incentive to make all the extra sales along the way, a dealer could go bankrupt giving refunds on demand for price fluctuation reasons.I guess my question is, how would some of the other dealers respond to such a request? Has anyone had such a request nade if them? And for collectors out there, do you feel making such a request (and expecting it to be fulfilled) is reasonable? Would a direct purchase be different from an ebay purchase?Steve Arnold
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
Steve, The request made for a refund is rediculous. As a buyer I would not consider requesting a refund for that reason, it seems unjustified to me. Larry
Fw: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
Hello Steve, You are a meteorite dealer, You buy and sell meteorites, so buy it back minus 40%, Over a month is two weeks too long to ask for a refund, This guy needs to take his lumps just like I did, And probably most every one else did at one time. Steve Yant Canton, Ohio IMCA 6639 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 10:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds Hello List,I have an ethical question I would like to get some feedback on.I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a specimen he purchased a month or so ago from me that he wants to return now. His request was not based on the fact that the specimen was damaged or otherwise in a different condition than described when it was sold to him.The request he felt was justified because he thinks the specimen is now not worth as much as he paid for it bach then. He seems to think he can get the same thing for a lower price elsewhere. So I assume he wants the refund to go buy the other cheaper specimen to replace the one he wants to give back to me.While I do guarantee authenticity and that the specimens are as described on all my specimens I sell, I do not have a Walmart style lowest price guarantee, that the person cannot find a similar specimen somewhere else in the present or in the future for a lower price. If someone bought something and didn't like it for whatever reason and wanted to return it promptly for a refund, that would be one thing but this is another.I find this refund request unreasonable and bordering on unethical. A similar but opposite request would be if I would contact buyers a month after I sold them a specimen and demanded that they let me buy back a specimen I sold them a month earlier because new information tells me that I sold it to them too cheap and that if I had it back at the price I sold it, I could turn around and sell it to someone for an even higher price. That request would be absurd.As I recall, there is just one dealer that offers a written lifetime guarantee to buy back any specimens at the customers purchase prices. However, one would expect that having a stated guarantee such as that would help such a dealer to generate more than enough extra sales to cover the losses when a meteorite genuinely drops in value and a few people decide to take that dealer up on his offer. But without offering that incentive to make all the extra sales along the way, a dealer could go bankrupt giving refunds on demand for price fluctuation reasons.I guess my question is, how would some of the other dealers respond to such a request? Has anyone had such a request nade if them? And for collectors out there, do you feel making such a request (and expecting it to be fulfilled) is reasonable? Would a direct purchase be different from an ebay purchase?Steve Arnold
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
Steve and all, My policy is simple. Ten days after delivery the sale is final. No returns. However, I have in the past offered larger specimens of the same meteorite with the offer of an exchange of the original specimen for the exact price paid, but only if the piece is in original condition. If the initial price paid was say $10 per/gram and the larger specimen is $5 per/gram. Then if I make such an offer then I will credit the original price against the price for the larger one. But the price of the larger has to be significantly greater than the cost of the smaller piece. And I make that offer only for pieces such as Glorieta, Correo, Holbrook, or others that I personally find, nothing else. Otherwise, after 10 days the sale is considered final, no refunds, and credit trade for the same location if offered. Steve Schoner/ams http://www.geocities.com/american_meteorite_survey --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, I have an ethical question I would like to get some feedback on. I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a specimen he purchased a month or so ago from me that he wants to return now. His request was not based on the fact that the specimen was damaged or otherwise in a different condition than described when it was sold to him. The request he felt was justified because he thinks the specimen is now not worth as much as he paid for it bach then. He seems to think he can get the same thing for a lower price elsewhere. So I assume he wants the refund to go buy the other cheaper specimen to replace the one he wants to give back to me. While I do guarantee authenticity and that the specimens are as described on all my specimens I sell, I do not have a Walmart style lowest price guarantee, that the person cannot find a similar specimen somewhere else in the present or in the future for a lower price. If someone bought something and didn't like it for whatever reason and wanted to return it promptly for a refund, that would be one thing but this is another. I find this refund request unreasonable and bordering on unethical. A similar but opposite request would be if I would contact buyers a month after I sold them a specimen and demanded that they let me buy back a specimen I sold them a month earlier because new information tells me that I sold it to them too cheap and that if I had it back at the price I sold it, I could turn around and sell it to someone for an even higher price. That request would be absurd. As I recall, there is just one dealer that offers a written lifetime guarantee to buy back any specimens at the customers purchase prices. However, one would expect that having a stated guarantee such as that would help such a dealer to generate more than enough extra sales to cover the losses when a meteorite genuinely drops in value and a few people decide to take that dealer up on his offer. But without offering that incentive to make all the extra sales along the way, a dealer could go bankrupt giving refunds on demand for price fluctuation reasons. I guess my question is, how would some of the other dealers respond to such a request? Has anyone had such a request nade if them? And for collectors out there, do you feel making such a request (and expecting it to be fulfilled) is reasonable? Would a direct purchase be different from an ebay purchase? Steve Arnold __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
On more than several occasions I have originally paid a price for a specimen that was satisfactory between a dealer and myself and subsequently found it for less. At no time would I even consider I had any right to a refund. Michael Masse - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 7:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds Hello List,I have an ethical question I would like to get some feedback on.I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a specimen he purchased a month or so ago from me that he wants to return now. His request was not based on the fact that the specimen was damaged or otherwise in a different condition than described when it was sold to him.The request he felt was justified because he thinks the specimen is now not worth as much as he paid for it bach then. He seems to think he can get the same thing for a lower price elsewhere. So I assume he wants the refund to go buy the other cheaper specimen to replace the one he wants to give back to me.While I do guarantee authenticity and that the specimens are as described on all my specimens I sell, I do not have a Walmart style lowest price guarantee, that the person cannot find a similar specimen somewhere else in the present or in the future for a lower price. If someone bought something and didn't like it for whatever reason and wanted to return it promptly for a refund, that would be one thing but this is another.I find this refund request unreasonable and bordering on unethical. A similar but opposite request would be if I would contact buyers a month after I sold them a specimen and demanded that they let me buy back a specimen I sold them a month earlier because new information tells me that I sold it to them too cheap and that if I had it back at the price I sold it, I could turn around and sell it to someone for an even higher price. That request would be absurd.As I recall, there is just one dealer that offers a written lifetime guarantee to buy back any specimens at the customers purchase prices. However, one would expect that having a stated guarantee such as that would help such a dealer to generate more than enough extra sales to cover the losses when a meteorite genuinely drops in value and a few people decide to take that dealer up on his offer. But without offering that incentive to make all the extra sales along the way, a dealer could go bankrupt giving refunds on demand for price fluctuation reasons.I guess my question is, how would some of the other dealers respond to such a request? Has anyone had such a request nade if them? And for collectors out there, do you feel making such a request (and expecting it to be fulfilled) is reasonable? Would a direct purchase be different from an ebay purchase?Steve Arnold
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
Steve, The request is unreasonable. I have a house full of items I paid too much for, I have no expectation of getting my money back from the palces I purchased them from. One example: Cabelas...I bought Abu Garcia's New EON Baitcasting reel the first year it came out...I am a southpaw so I had to wait for a left hand version. I paid $119.00, which was below retail.One month later the price dropped to $89.95. Cabelas offers a 60 day guarantee no questions asked refund policy. I actually could have returned the reel saying it did not feel right, waited a couple of weeks and bought the same reel for less. I did not do that because it is wrong. Now they make a better model in a low profile design that is $89.95. Is it right for me to ask for a new model and a refund? I think not. You sold the item, the person bought the item. The item is real, you guarantee it is real. Just because he can get the same thing for less does not make it your responsibility to refund him. People all over the world buy items that are not worth what they pay for them, or that loose value or that can be had for less money from another dealer. Unless you guarantee the price, you are not obligated in any way to refund his money. Tell him to drain his bathwater and stop drinking it. Mark M. Phoenix AZ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 7:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds Hello List,I have an ethical question I would like to get some feedback on.I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a specimen he purchased a month or so ago from me that he wants to return now. His request was not based on the fact that the specimen was damaged or otherwise in a different condition than described when it was sold to him.The request he felt was justified because he thinks the specimen is now not worth as much as he paid for it bach then. He seems to think he can get the same thing for a lower price elsewhere. So I assume he wants the refund to go buy the other cheaper specimen to replace the one he wants to give back to me.While I do guarantee authenticity and that the specimens are as described on all my specimens I sell, I do not have a Walmart style lowest price guarantee, that the person cannot find a similar specimen somewhere else in the present or in the future for a lower price. If someone bought something and didn't like it for whatever reason and wanted to return it promptly for a refund, that would be one thing but this is another.I find this refund request unreasonable and bordering on unethical. A similar but opposite request would be if I would contact buyers a month after I sold them a specimen and demanded that they let me buy back a specimen I sold them a month earlier because new information tells me that I sold it to them too cheap and that if I had it back at the price I sold it, I could turn around and sell it to someone for an even higher price. That request would be absurd.As I recall, there is just one dealer that offers a written lifetime guarantee to buy back any specimens at the customers purchase prices. However, one would expect that having a stated guarantee such as that would help such a dealer to generate more than enough extra sales to cover the losses when a meteorite genuinely drops in value and a few people decide to take that dealer up on his offer. But without offering that incentive to make all the extra sales along the way, a dealer could go bankrupt giving refunds on demand for price fluctuation reasons.I guess my question is, how would some of the other dealers respond to such a request? Has anyone had such a request nade if them? And for collectors out there, do you feel making such a request (and expecting it to be fulfilled) is reasonable? Would a direct purchase be different from an ebay purchase?Steve Arnold
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
Steve and List, The correct diagnosis for this return syndrome is called buyers remorse. We've all had it at one point in our lives and it can take some folks a lot of years to cure themselves of impulse buying. Some guys take a look at their paycheck and start looking around for something to spend it on. Only after they've spent the money do they remember they've got a table full of bills to pay. Poor decision making is NOT a legitimate reason to expect a refund. Does anyone want to buy a bag full of Gold Basins for what I paid for them five years ago? I'd love to get $3.00 per gram for them ugly buggers right now. Live and Learn, John Gwilliam At 10:59 PM 6/27/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, I have an ethical question I would like to get some feedback on. I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a specimen he purchased a month or so ago from me that he wants to return now. His request was not based on the fact that the specimen was damaged or otherwise in a different condition than described when it was sold to him. The request he felt was justified because he thinks the specimen is now not worth as much as he paid for it bach then. He seems to think he can get the same thing for a lower price elsewhere. So I assume he wants the refund to go buy the other cheaper specimen to replace the one he wants to give back to me. While I do guarantee authenticity and that the specimens are as described on all my specimens I sell, I do not have a Walmart style lowest price guarantee, that the person cannot find a similar specimen somewhere else in the present or in the future for a lower price. If someone bought something and didn't like it for whatever reason and wanted to return it promptly for a refund, that would be one thing but this is another. I find this refund request unreasonable and bordering on unethical. A similar but opposite request would be if I would contact buyers a month after I sold them a specimen and demanded that they let me buy back a specimen I sold them a month earlier because new information tells me that I sold it to them too cheap and that if I had it back at the price I sold it, I could turn around and sell it to someone for an even higher price. That request would be absurd. As I recall, there is just one dealer that offers a written lifetime guarantee to buy back any specimens at the customers purchase prices. However, one would expect that having a stated guarantee such as that would help such a dealer to generate more than enough extra sales to cover the losses when a meteorite genuinely drops in value and a few people decide to take that dealer up on his offer. But without offering that incentive to make all the extra sales along the way, a dealer could go bankrupt giving refunds on demand for price fluctuation reasons. I guess my question is, how would some of the other dealers respond to such a request? Has anyone had such a request nade if them? And for collectors out there, do you feel making such a request (and expecting it to be fulfilled) is reasonable? Would a direct purchase be different from an ebay purchase? Steve Arnold __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
You could also charge him a restocking fee of 35%. I think that if you do that you are adding validity to his claim. Bottomline is he has no right to ask. Mark M. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 7:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds Hello List,I have an ethical question I would like to get some feedback on.I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a specimen he purchased a month or so ago from me that he wants to return now. His request was not based on the fact that the specimen was damaged or otherwise in a different condition than described when it was sold to him.The request he felt was justified because he thinks the specimen is now not worth as much as he paid for it bach then. He seems to think he can get the same thing for a lower price elsewhere. So I assume he wants the refund to go buy the other cheaper specimen to replace the one he wants to give back to me.While I do guarantee authenticity and that the specimens are as described on all my specimens I sell, I do not have a Walmart style lowest price guarantee, that the person cannot find a similar specimen somewhere else in the present or in the future for a lower price. If someone bought something and didn't like it for whatever reason and wanted to return it promptly for a refund, that would be one thing but this is another.I find this refund request unreasonable and bordering on unethical. A similar but opposite request would be if I would contact buyers a month after I sold them a specimen and demanded that they let me buy back a specimen I sold them a month earlier because new information tells me that I sold it to them too cheap and that if I had it back at the price I sold it, I could turn around and sell it to someone for an even higher price. That request would be absurd.As I recall, there is just one dealer that offers a written lifetime guarantee to buy back any specimens at the customers purchase prices. However, one would expect that having a stated guarantee such as that would help such a dealer to generate more than enough extra sales to cover the losses when a meteorite genuinely drops in value and a few people decide to take that dealer up on his offer. But without offering that incentive to make all the extra sales along the way, a dealer could go bankrupt giving refunds on demand for price fluctuation reasons.I guess my question is, how would some of the other dealers respond to such a request? Has anyone had such a request nade if them? And for collectors out there, do you feel making such a request (and expecting it to be fulfilled) is reasonable? Would a direct purchase be different from an ebay purchase?Steve Arnold
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds
Steve Arnold the First: I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a specimen he purchased a month or so ago...[snip]justified because he thinks the specimen is now not worth as much as he paid for it bach then. I made a similar request of General Motors. I wrote them and pointed out that their stock price had slipped since I bought some, and so I thought that, to be fair, they should reimburse me for the difference in value. I haven't heard from them yet, but feel quite confident that they will honor this request. Gregory
