Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor, Alsace France
Hello Dave, Meteor is the brand name of a famous beer from Einsisheim (yes, you can beleive me). Please check the following : http://www.brasserie-meteor.fr/index_gb.html Best regards. - Original Message - From: D Marsocci To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 4:22 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor, Alsace France Hello List, I have a slightly off topic story and question here: My parents were emptying their attic and told me to come over to go through my "junk". As I was going through I came across some 0.25 liter beer glasses from a trip to France I took when I was 15. I had enjoyed the bar and wanted a small memento, thus the glasses were purchased. At the time I had no clue about meteorites/meteorite history, so my purchase had nothing to do with my current interest in this field. The glassessay METEOR on them. I'm not sure if it the name of the Pub or a local beer. Is anyone familiar with the "Meteor" Pub/Restaurant or "Meteor" beer in Alsace France? I figured that since the Ensisheim Show was there, some of you -(excuse me) MOST of you may know this Pub. Is there any "meteor" history to it? Theimprint on the glass reads "METEOR" "La biere du village de Hochfelden" "ALSACE" Thanks, Dave Marsocci
[meteorite-list] Ad- 99 Cent Ebay Auctions
Dear List Members, We are running a special auction on several nice items all starting at 99 cents with no reserve. There is over $20,000 in material at current retail prices represented in this offering. We are doing this because several members will not be able to attend the Denver auction and we want to give buyers the same opportunity on eBay. There are several rare items in larger sizes which should make some collectors happy because we are sure they will sell for far less than retail. If you are interested here is the eBay link: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/meteoritelab/ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. All the best, Adam and Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [Fwd: Geologist Finds Meteorite Crater In The Japanese Alps]
Dear List members: Here is more information about the new JapaneseCrater?. Comments please. ---BeginMessage--- Dear List, After reading the abstract and reviewing the literature I find that this announcement of an impact crater is not without doubt. Ten years prior, Dr. Miura of Yamaguchi University studied this feature but found no conclusive evidence except for the shocked quartz. Dr. Miura conducted studies to search for Ni/Fe grains near the site and found no evidence whatsoever. His final conclusion was that it was a manmade impactor but further comment could not be given. If a Barringer-sized impactor were to hit the top of the Oike Mt..as proposed by the current authors, Sakamoto and his research team failed to explain the energy release on the opposite side of the mountain (in the form of a blow through). Also his team failed to find shatter cone, Fe/Ni particles or even remnant meteorite or glass. Also they claim an age of 20,- 30, years for the age of this event but fail to show how this was determined. Japan at this time has two published meteorite craters, Takamatsu and Akiyoshi; both published and scientifically studied with verifiable results. For more information search Dr. Miura's works. This NIPR meeting lacked the peer review necessary to prevent the non-scienctific reporting on the Oike Crater site and in the future more detailed studies need to be reviewed before going in front of such a prestigious group as The NIPR for presentation. Sincerely, Dirk Ross Planetary Data, USA Ron Baalke wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2003-09-05-japan-crater_x.htm Geologist Finds meteorite's crater in the Japanese Alps Associated Press September 4, 2003 (AP) - A crater from a meteorite impact more than 20,000 years ago has been discovered in the Japanese Alps, an amateur geologist announced this week. The crater is the first found in this country. Masao Sakamoto said the crater stretches 900 yards in diameter and spreads out across rugged, heavily forested land in Nagano prefecture (state), about 100 miles west of Tokyo. Sakamoto, who announced his discovery at an academic symposium earlier this week, said it went largely unnoticed because only about 40% of the crater is visible. If it had been a clear, pretty circle, it would have been obvious that was a crater, Sakamoto told The Associated Press on Friday. Everyone around here is really surprised by this. Sakamoto said analysis of the soil at the site indicates a meteorite about 45 meters (150 feet) across smashed into the area about 20,000 to 30,000 years ago. Sakamoto, an elementary school teacher, said he studied the crater - located in the town next to his - for 20 years before he was able to determine it had been formed by a rock from outer space. At first, Sakamoto thought the mountain ridge and basin might have been formed by a volcano, a fault, or even sculpted out by a glacier. But the soil he found didn't match any of those theories. After studying craters in the United States and Europe, he discovered some of them had similar features to his ridge - including a mysterious uneven stretch of valleys and hills in middle of the woods. Quartz found on the site was then proved to have been formed as a result of the intense heat created by the impact of a meteorite, Sakamoto said. Sakamoto presented his findings at a symposium sponsored by the National Institute of Polar Research, which is involved in geology and geophysics studies. The announcement was front-page news in Japan. Sakamoto said he hopes the finding of an impact crater in Japan will allow his colleagues easier access to carry out field studies in meteorite research. The biggest honor is to have spurred such opportunities in Japan, he said. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ---End Message---
[meteorite-list] RE: Meteor, Alsace France
Hi Dave, hi list, Here's a piece of evidence that might answer your question: http://www.timewarp.de/new/Ensis2003a.jpg The picture was taken after the opening of this years Ensisheim fair, Alsace, France (right in front of the Regency Palace). To the right, you'll spot the famous Meteor beer tent. To the left, you have a group of funny people with plates around their necks, and some diploma in their hands, certifying that they drank more Meteor beer than any other attendant ;-)) In fact, this is the group of people who got honored this year and who became members of the St. George's Fraternity of the Guardians of the Ensisheim meteorite. From left to right: Prof. Lefebvre (Belgium), myself, Ali Hmani (Morocco), Sergey Vasiliev (Prague), and Giorgio Tomelleri (Italy). To Giorgio's left you see Marc Labenne lurking (the guy with the red T-shirt and the sun glasses). There are some other list members in the background - can you name 'em ;-? Best, Norbert PS: Of course, the Meteor beer brand was named for the famous Thunderstone of Ensisheim, long ago. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello List, I have a slightly off topic story and question here: My parents were emptying their attic and told me to come over to go through my junk. As I was going through I came across some 0.25 liter beer glasses from a trip to France I took when I was 15. I had enjoyed the bar and wanted a small memento, thus the glasses were purchased. At the time I had no clue about meteorites/meteorite history, so my purchase had nothing to do with my current interest in this field. The glasses say METEOR on them. I'm not sure if it the name of the Pub or a local beer. Is anyone familiar with the Meteor Pub/Restaurant or Meteor beer in Alsace France? I figured that since the Ensisheim Show was there, some of you - (excuse me) MOST of you may know this Pub. Is there any meteor history to it? The imprint on the glass reads METEOR La biere du village de Hochfelden ALSACE Thanks, Dave Marsocci __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Meteor, Alsace France
Norbert, Sergey and any of the other honor-ies on the list, Congratulations on your accomplishment and honor. I would guess the competition was fierce. That show looks like one of the pilgrimages we all should make. Hope to see you all there one day. Thanx for sharing. John Hi Dave, hi list, Here's a piece of evidence that might answer your question: http://www.timewarp.de/new/Ensis2003a.jpg The picture was taken after the opening of this years Ensisheim fair, Alsace, France (right in front of the Regency Palace). To the right, you'll spot the famous Meteor beer tent. To the left, you have a group of funny people with plates around their necks, and some diploma in their hands, certifying that they drank more Meteor beer than any other attendant ;-)) In fact, this is the group of people who got honored this year and who became members of the St. George's Fraternity of the Guardians of the Ensisheim meteorite. From left to right: Prof. Lefebvre (Belgium), myself, Ali Hmani (Morocco), Sergey Vasiliev (Prague), and Giorgio Tomelleri (Italy). To Giorgio's left you see Marc Labenne lurking (the guy with the red T-shirt and the sun glasses). There are some other list members in the background - can you name 'em ;-? Best, Norbert PS: Of course, the Meteor beer brand was named for the famous Thunderstone of Ensisheim, long ago. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello List, I have a slightly off topic story and question here: My parents were emptying their attic and told me to come over to go through my junk. As I was going through I came across some 0.25 liter beer glasses from a trip to France I took when I was 15. I had enjoyed the bar and wanted a small memento, thus the glasses were purchased. At the time I had no clue about meteorites/meteorite history, so my purchase had nothing to do with my current interest in this field. The glasses say METEOR on them. I'm not sure if it the name of the Pub or a local beer. Is anyone familiar with the Meteor Pub/Restaurant or Meteor beer in Alsace France? I figured that since the Ensisheim Show was there, some of you - (excuse me) MOST of you may know this Pub. Is there any meteor history to it? The imprint on the glass reads METEOR La biere du village de Hochfelden ALSACE Thanks, Dave Marsocci __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] THE MOON !!
Norbert, After reading my post from last night I realized I did a(nother) meteorite list faux pas when I speculated on the depth of your material, as in source depth on the moon. First off...I should not speculate on others material when it is in for classification...a very bad move. Secondly...Norbert was only answering my inquiry (by his own speculation possibly) after I received my piece and I said that it looked more like bedrock than breccia. I am no expert...so my fingers and brain should have kept those words to myself. As for endorsing his material...that comes from me who simply thinks it is fine material. I better stop here. Sincerely sorry, John List members, Ah the moon. Did anyone watch the special on Discovery tonight about the moon? The bottom line that was reinforced for me from that special is that the earth would not be the wondrous planet we all share without it! If it would go away today...our axis of rotation would go to chaos and our weather would do the same, probably killing just about everything in a relatively short time. Hail to the moon! Is it an accident that it is there? (PLEASE don't answer that one to keep the peace) What I did not realize is that a typical day a few billion years ago was only 18 hours or so. And in the future the days will be longer than our normal 24 hours because the moon continues to move away a couple inches or 5.08+/- centimeters every year. Did I get it right this time Norbert? ;-) Now, as an owner of a similar slice of the same anorthosite lunar being offered from Norbert, I have to tell you that I think it is exceptional material. As is owning any piece of the moon. The price he sells this at is as good as it gets for something this special. As for a pairing to the others...it may be, but it looks unique unto itself in my humble opinion. Breccia or bedrock?? I believe Norbert mentioned to me that it may be the deepest material found yet of the lunar anorthosites. Time will tell with its' classification. So celebrate the moon, and when you get a chance make sure your collection includes a piece some day. Maybe tomorrow Loonier John PS Norbert...please send the endorsement payment to 4321 Blastoff Rd, Reading PA (Just DELETE if you hate eBay, and/or ADs...) Hi all, I've some rather special auctions ending on Sunday, Sept. 17, ~18:00 PDT, including three low priced lunar specimens (a very beautiful new one, and a neat mare basalt), and a great specimen of Ibitira, the unique vesicular and unbrecciated eucrite. If you like, have a look at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItemsuserid=ivuna Or do a search for my eBay user handle ivuna. Thanks for your interest - enjoy the high-res pictures. Best, Norbert Classen PS: All of my auctions are just for raising funds for other meteorite acquisitions. No profit involved. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Meteor, Alsace France
Thanks Norbert and Jean-Claude, I appreciate the information and pictures. It's so interesting that I wound up bringing those glasses home - what an incredible foreshadowing! - and congrats on your accomplishments! :) Thanks again, Dave Marsocci - Original Message - From: Norbert Classen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 6:18 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: Meteor, Alsace France Hi Dave, hi list, Here's a piece of evidence that might answer your question: http://www.timewarp.de/new/Ensis2003a.jpg The picture was taken after the opening of this years Ensisheim fair, Alsace, France (right in front of the Regency Palace). To the right, you'll spot the famous Meteor beer tent. To the left, you have a group of funny people with plates around their necks, and some diploma in their hands, certifying that they drank more Meteor beer than any other attendant ;-)) In fact, this is the group of people who got honored this year and who became members of the St. George's Fraternity of the Guardians of the Ensisheim meteorite. From left to right: Prof. Lefebvre (Belgium), myself, Ali Hmani (Morocco), Sergey Vasiliev (Prague), and Giorgio Tomelleri (Italy). To Giorgio's left you see Marc Labenne lurking (the guy with the red T-shirt and the sun glasses). There are some other list members in the background - can you name 'em ;-? Best, Norbert PS: Of course, the Meteor beer brand was named for the famous Thunderstone of Ensisheim, long ago. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hello List, I have a slightly off topic story and question here: My parents were emptying their attic and told me to come over to go through my junk. As I was going through I came across some 0.25 liter beer glasses from a trip to France I took when I was 15. I had enjoyed the bar and wanted a small memento, thus the glasses were purchased. At the time I had no clue about meteorites/meteorite history, so my purchase had nothing to do with my current interest in this field. The glasses say METEOR on them. I'm not sure if it the name of the Pub or a local beer. Is anyone familiar with the Meteor Pub/Restaurant or Meteor beer in Alsace France? I figured that since the Ensisheim Show was there, some of you - (excuse me) MOST of you may know this Pub. Is there any meteor history to it? The imprint on the glass reads METEOR La biere du village de Hochfelden ALSACE Thanks, Dave Marsocci __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: TOP METEORITE COLLECTION SPECIMEN OFFER - sorry lis
Mr. Cottingham I no understand, you put email to the list, therefore I think you read my emails, will have sent of it a twenty, however not still I received answered. Perhaps writing in public here in strip I will have a reply. I am waiting for still from May the slice of Campo Sales, and seems myself very weird that the last quick packages from you never arrived, also because I had asked a shipping with a registered number, thing that I asked for to begin you for start the research of the pack but never received. Now I do not know what to think. the package will have left? I excuse myself with the strip for this message but seen that for private road I do not obtain no reply then I experience with this method. Regards Matteo --- Michael Cottingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Michael Cottingham To: Michael Cottingham Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 8:24 PM Subject: TOP METEORITE COLLECTION SPECIMEN OFFER Hello Everyone, Some really choice items for sale. PAYPAL or Money Order ONLY. I would prefer MONEY ORDERS. PLEASE MAKE OFFERS ON THE SPECIMENS BELOW. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham Go To This Link to see All the photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/goatman38 Open the file marked Top Meteorite Collection Specimens Try the slide show presentation...I think it works very well. CAMPOS SALES, L5, Ceara, Brazil, Fell; January 31, 1991 at 2200hrs. Endcut... 133.37 gram... FALSEY DRAW, L6 Chondrite, Chaves County, New Mexico, Found 1997, TKW 4.18 kg. Complete Slice... 200 gram ... FREDERICKSBURG, Hexahedrite IIAB, Fredericksburg, Texas, Found 1930's, TKW 30kg. Endcut... 648 gram HAMMADAH AL HAMRA 183, LL6 Chondrite, Jabal al Gharb, Libya, Found 1996, TKW 5kg. End Piece with 3 cut faces. 562 gram KAINSAZ, CO3, Tartar Republic, Russia, Fell; Sept., 13, 1937, TKW 200kg. Whole Stone 140.33 gram. KUNASHANK, L6, Chelyabinskaya, Russia, Fell June 11, 1949 @ 0814hrs, TKW 200kg. Half Slice. 256 gram... NORTHBRANCH, H5 Chondrite, Jewell County, Kansas, Found 1972, TKW 76kg. Endcut... 1750 gram.. NWA 250, L6 Chondrite, Eastern Morocco, Found 2000, TKW 69 kg. Complete slice 572 gram O'DONNEL, H5 Chondrite, Dawson County, Texas, USA found 1992, TKW 12.7kg. Complete Slice. 298 gram. OUM ROKBA, H5 Chondrite, Oum Rokba, Morocco, Found 2000, TKW 80kg. Individual 1426 gram. PARK FOREST, L5 Chondrite, Cook County, Illinois, USA, Fell March 26, 20003 at 2350hrs, TKW ~20kg. Half Individual with Yellow Paint Curb Smasher. 145.21 gram POWELLSVILLE, H5 Chondrite, Scioto County, Ohio, USA, Found 1990, TKW 4.310kg. Endcut 1236 gram.. THUATHE, H4 Chondrite, Maseru, Lesotho, Fell July 21, 2002 at 1549hrs, TKW ~35kg. Individual 254 gram.. URUACU, IAB Iron, Goias, Brazil, Found 1992, TKW 72.5kg. Complete Slice.. 316 gram WAGON MOUND, L6 Chondrite, Mora County, New Mexico, USA, Found 1932, TKW 87.5kg. Complete slice. 778 gram... ZAG, H3-6, Western Sahara or Morocco, Fell August 1998, TKW 175kg. End Piece... 1400 gram.. = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
[meteorite-list] Sept. 7, 1753
Hi list ! Today we have an anniversary. The french meteorite Luponnas fell 250 years ago. I am lucky to have a piece of this historical meteorite in my collection as it is the birthday meteorite of my son Michael which celebtrates today his 7th bithday. I got my 5.7g piece in trade with the NHM Vienna. Only 211.64 grams of this H3-5 black brecciated meteorite is preserved in collections. One of my best specimens in my collection. Best wishes to all, Christian IMCA #2673 www.austromet.com Ing. Christian ANGER Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] THIN SECTION SALE ON EBAY
I have 12 cool thin section that end on ebay today including hvittis (EL6) SAHARA97113 (EH3) NWA305 (E3) NWA1109 - polymict Eucrite Dhofar007 - cumulative Eucrite Allende Moroccan CR2 Bilanga (diogenite) Murchison NWA782 (R4) These are mostly premium thin sections and so far nothing that I have listed is bid over $30. This will likely be my last thin section sunday until november so stock up on the good stuff now. They end betweem 9pm and 10pm eastern time today (Sunday). See my user id on ebay AMUNRE or click here: http://tinyurl.com/mjj1 Cheers DEAN www.meteoriteshop.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sept. 7, 1753
Today we have an anniversary. The French meteorite Luponnas fell 250 years ago. I am lucky to have a piece of this historical meteorite in my collection as it is the birthday meteorite of my son Michael who celebtrates today his 7th bithday. Let's hope Michael is not as shock-blackened and brecciated as your Luponnas H3-5 specimen ;-) Congrats on your trade and happy birthday to Michael ! Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] BIG NANTAN FOR CHEAP
That is a great story. You would think that someone that owns a rock shop would be particularly keen on suspecting a meteorite, and also to know that it would be most likely worth more that anything else in the store... - and in the back room no less Charlyv -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 9:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] BIG NANTAN FOR CHEAP You know how they say you will never know what you find?Well today in all of the most unlikeliest place to find a meteorite, I did today.My wife and I were at a local mall doing some shopping when I found a rock shop there.I was looking around and talking to the help there when we were talking and I said I collect meteorites.Then she said we have afew old iron pieces in the back.Well like a kid I put om a real big grin and said, can I see them.Lo and behold she brings out this huge NANTAN.A real beauty.Hardly any rust or decay.And you believe the price.$100 for this huge iron meteorite.I asked her to weigh it if she could.She says it ways around 20 ibs.It was heavy, and I said 10 kilo's for $100.I bought it.Than she let me see some others.Some rust buckets ,some pretty clean, and some dirty but ok.Hell for$100, I should have bought some more.You just never know what you will find.Talk about being lucky again. steve arnold = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: ST «Own a piece of the sky»
Hi Nels and list, if you'd like to get the interesting 4-page article Own a piece of the sky by Greg Redfern online - go to: http://skyandtelescope.com/ Search the Magazin archive for meteorite, #4 is the article Own a piece of the sky and click Purchase Article. Ok, it's 3 clicks;-) Peter
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: ST «Own a piece of the sky»
Yes but I have to pay, is not free Regards Matteo --- Peter Marmet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Nels and list, if you'd like to get the interesting 4-page article «Own a piece of the sky» by Greg Redfern online - go to: http://skyandtelescope.com/ Search the Magazin archive for «meteorite», #4 is the article «Own a piece of the sky» and click «Purchase Article». Ok, it's 3 clicks;-) Peter = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BIG NANTAN FOR CHEAP
Dear Charlie, List; It has been my experience out west here in Wyoming (USA), that the age of the rock shop owner, and the amount of rocks that they have accumulated multiplied by the unproven Kingman factor/unknown plus correlated to the amount that was paid back then; minus memory loss times number of pets in the immediate vicinity is equal to the amount paid and thus the bargain harvested. This formula may sound ridiculous but seriously, many, especially old rock shops tend to be accumulations of many years and many collections put in one place (pets and old people included). Better to move the rock and make a buck than to let it sit and rust. Best Sunday, Dave Freeman Charles R. Viau wrote: That is a great story. You would think that someone that owns a rock shop would be particularly keen on suspecting a meteorite, and also to know that it would be most likely worth more that anything else in the store... - and in the back room no less Charlyv -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 9:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] BIG NANTAN FOR CHEAP You know how they say you will never know what you find?Well today in all of the most unlikeliest place to find a meteorite, I did today.My wife and I were at a local mall doing some shopping when I found a rock shop there.I was looking around and talking to the help there when we were talking and I said I collect meteorites.Then she said we have afew old iron pieces in the back.Well like a kid I put om a real big grin and said, can I see them.Lo and behold she brings out this huge NANTAN.A real beauty.Hardly any rust or decay.And you believe the price.$100 for this huge iron meteorite.I asked her to weigh it if she could.She says it ways around 20 ibs.It was heavy, and I said 10 kilo's for $100.I bought it.Than she let me see some others.Some rust buckets ,some pretty clean, and some dirty but ok.Hell for$100, I should have bought some more.You just never know what you will find.Talk about being lucky again. steve arnold = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor, Alsace France
Dear Dave, Jean-Claude, Norbert, John, List, Yes, « Meteor » beer is THE brand we cherish and appreciate during the Ensisheim show, since the first edition (2000). This beer is indeed quite popular within the Alsace region but I believe it is not (necessarily) related to the Ensisheim meteorite itself (although I must check that relatively important point soon). It was easy for us to privilege that brand for obvious reasons. There is another explicit picture of the Meteor stand (a must stop for anyone during the hot days and warm ambience in June..) published in the journal Meteorite (Vol 6, N° 3, 2000, the figure on p 39). Sorry, I dont have on hand the original here but I bet most of you do have all the Meteorite issues to check. Incidently, besides those people proudly smiling in the first row of that picture (the first 5 new enthroned guardians), there is another person standing behind, with his head just under the R of Meteor, namely myself. I was not supposed to be pictured and, in fact, I still do not understand what I was doing there would you guess ? It was such a hot day! Boy, this beer is refreshing! And, while we are at it, here is another little funny story about Meteor. In 2001, Bob Haag was one of our attractive funny guests. By no means, he did appreciate the beer. Yes, Bob, there were many witnesses among whom the owner of the Meteor beer himself! Actually, he wanted to meet you and probably make you some valuable proposal for some association but, as often, you probably already disappeared. Oh yes, the owners name is Haag! Now you understand that this can be a worthy proposal. But this invitation still holds for 2004 and I know you will come. At least you have this another reason now. (Hey, Bob, can you read me ? If you are at the other end of the world for a new meteorite quest, no doubt you will hear for this interesting news in Denver, from some listees ) You can see on Norberts more recent picture that things did not change much within 4 years and that Meteor beer is still as popular as perhaps the Tokay Pinot Gris Meteorite wine. The Russian clan (among others) should not contradict me But the idea of John, namely that one day we should all gather in Ensisheim for the show for a big fun party, is excellent! Why not next year ? In 2004 indeed, we will celebrate the 20th Anniversary of the creation of the Ensisheim Meteorite Guardians Confraternity. A special meteorite threat for sure, along with a famous blast in perspective! May I renew here my warm invitation to all of you from this List to come along? Let me know your intentions. And if you come, just dont stand behind the curtain, anonymously. We can perhaps really organize a big side List party ? Any suggestion ? I will be so happy to hear from you and your practical proposals. After Ensisheim 2003, I was very busy or on travel during this Summer season so I could not even find time to thank all the attendees and visitors. Here it is done, folks and I appreciated so much your participating, which is always the guarantee of the show success, while the Meteor beer is only some (excellent) catalyst .that is, nevertheless, consumed during the reaction You will (probably) read our show report in the forthcoming issue of Meteorite but also some details about the 2004 edition. Have a good time wherever you gather. All the best, Zelimir - Le contenu de ce courrier n'engage en aucun cas l'UHA __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] BIG NANTAN FOR CHEAP
David, Steve, list, I guess that makes sense. Perhaps there is a new hunting frontier here that Steve has re-discovered... In this case, go where there are rocks... I live in Boston, and most of the interesting rocks around here were long ago scoured away by the glaciers and pushed into the sea. When I visited Utah last month, I was like a kid in a candy store. There were so many great geologic sites to visit, and I have never seen the likes of some of the rock shops I visited. I wish I had asked them the same questions that Steve did... In any case, I got a surcharge on my overweight luggage coming home, but it was certainly worth every penny. Charlyv -Original Message- From: David Freeman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 4:52 PM To: Charles R. Viau Cc: 'Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BIG NANTAN FOR CHEAP Dear Charlie, List; It has been my experience out west here in Wyoming (USA), that the age of the rock shop owner, and the amount of rocks that they have accumulated multiplied by the unproven Kingman factor/unknown plus correlated to the amount that was paid back then; minus memory loss times number of pets in the immediate vicinity is equal to the amount paid and thus the bargain harvested. This formula may sound ridiculous but seriously, many, especially old rock shops tend to be accumulations of many years and many collections put in one place (pets and old people included). Better to move the rock and make a buck than to let it sit and rust. Best Sunday, Dave Freeman Charles R. Viau wrote: That is a great story. You would think that someone that owns a rock shop would be particularly keen on suspecting a meteorite, and also to know that it would be most likely worth more that anything else in the store... - and in the back room no less Charlyv -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 9:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] BIG NANTAN FOR CHEAP You know how they say you will never know what you find?Well today in all of the most unlikeliest place to find a meteorite, I did today.My wife and I were at a local mall doing some shopping when I found a rock shop there.I was looking around and talking to the help there when we were talking and I said I collect meteorites.Then she said we have afew old iron pieces in the back.Well like a kid I put om a real big grin and said, can I see them.Lo and behold she brings out this huge NANTAN.A real beauty.Hardly any rust or decay.And you believe the price.$100 for this huge iron meteorite.I asked her to weigh it if she could.She says it ways around 20 ibs.It was heavy, and I said 10 kilo's for $100.I bought it.Than she let me see some others.Some rust buckets ,some pretty clean, and some dirty but ok.Hell for$100, I should have bought some more.You just never know what you will find.Talk about being lucky again. steve arnold = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ringwoodite?
Hello List, in a terrestrial rock, Is there anything that resembles ringwoodite/shock veins? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ringwoodite?
Tom aka James Knudson wrote: Hello List, in a terrestrial rock, Is there anything that resembles ringwoodite/shock veins? Thanks, Tom Shock Veins-- yes. I suppose slickensides could resemble a shock fracture which is filled in by any of several minerals. Contraction cracks in mudstone can be filled with silica gel only it is called boulder opal. Real Fracture veins are found in earthquake rupture zones Ringwoodite on earth is believed to be very plentyfull just not on the surface. It is theorized to exist starting in a zone 50-80 kilometers below your foot. (Be it remembered that ringwoodite is the spinel habit / high pressure form of olivine (Mg,Fe SiOx)) Superficially, I suppose there are a number of things which might resemble ringwoodite. Fluorite comes to mind but a hardness test should distinguish them. I don't remember seeing anything terrestrially that closely resembles a true shock fracture infilled with a melt material. Could you give a little more detail? Are you trying to identify something specifically or are you just asking so you could be prepared when you do find it? Elton __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] threatened slander suits?
Anyone know the deal with [EMAIL PROTECTED], who possibly answers to the name of "R. A. MasFrank"? He's been threatening yet-to-be-defined legal action against various and sundry dealers and meteoritical scientists for a couple of years now. I'd like to chat with this person one-on-one, to find out what his complaint really is (as would a number of others). But it would also be preferable to deal with something remotely resembling an actual human presence, rather than with an essentially faceless person hiding behind the anonymity of a keyboard. Anyone know who he is and/or what the heck his specific gripe is? And if he's present on the list, perhaps he'd care to acknowledge the inquiry, and publicly state his case? Thanx - Gregory
[meteorite-list] Hubble Finds Farthest, Faintest Solar System Objects Beyond Neptune
http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/2003/25/text EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE: 3:00 P.M. (EDT) SEPTEMBER 6, 2003 CONTACT: Steve Bradt University of Pennsylvania Phone: 215/573-6604; Pager: 215/524-6272 Donna Weaver Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore, Md. Phone: 410/338-4493; E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PRESS RELEASE NO.: STScI-PR03-25 FARTHEST, FAINTEST SOLAR SYSTEM OBJECTS FOUND BEYOND NEPTUNE Astronomers using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope have discovered three of the faintest and smallest objects ever detected beyond Neptune. Each object is a lump of ice and rock - roughly the size of Philadelphia - orbiting beyond Neptune and Pluto, where the icy bodies may have dwelled since the formation of the solar system 4.5 billion years ago. They reside in a ring-shaped region called the Kuiper Belt, which houses a swarm of icy rocks that are leftover building blocks, or planetesimals, from the solar system's creation. The results of the search were announced by a group led by astronomer Gary Bernstein of the University of Pennsylvania at today's meeting of the Division of Planetary Sciences in Monterey, Calif. The study's big surprise is that so few Kuiper Belt members were discovered. With Hubble's exquisite resolution, Bernstein and his co- workers expected to find at least 60 Kuiper Belt members as small as 10 miles (15 km) in diameter - but only three were discovered. Discovering many fewer Kuiper Belt objects than was predicted makes it difficult to understand how so many comets appear near Earth, since many comets were thought to originate in the Kuiper Belt, Bernstein says. This is a sign that perhaps the smaller planetesimals have been shattered into dust by colliding with each other over the past few billion years. Bernstein and his colleagues used Hubble to look for planetesimals that are much smaller and fainter than can be seen from ground-based telescopes. Hubble's Advanced Camera for Surveys was pointed at a region in the constellation Virgo over a 15-day period in January and February 2003. A bank of 10 computers on the ground worked for six months searching for faint-moving spots in the Hubble images. The search netted three small objects, named 2003 BF91, 2003 BG91, and 2003 BH91, which range in size from 15-28 miles (25-45 km) across. They are the smallest objects ever found beyond Neptune. At their current locations, these icy bodies are a billion times fainter (29th magnitude) than the dimmest objects visible to the naked eye. But an icy body of this size that escapes the Kuiper Belt to wander near the Sun can become visible from Earth as a comet as the wandering body starts to evaporate and form a surrounding cloud. Astronomers are probing the Kuiper Belt because the region offers a window on the early history of our solar system. The planets formed over 4 billion years ago from a cloud of gas and dust that surrounded the infant Sun. Microscopic bits of ice and dust stuck together to form lumps that grew from pebbles to boulders to city- or continent-sized planetesimals. The known planets and moons are the result of collisions between planetesimals. In most of the solar system, all of the planetesimals have either been absorbed into planets or ejected into interstellar space, destroying the traces of the early days of the solar system. Around 1950, Gerard Kuiper and Kenneth Edgeworth proposed that in the region beyond Neptune there are no planets capable of ejecting the leftover planetesimals. There should be a zone, the two astronomers said- now called the Kuiper Belt - filled with small, icy bodies. Despite many years of searching, the first such object was not found until 1992. Since then, astronomers have discovered nearly 1,000 from ground-based telescopes. Most astronomers now believe that Pluto, discovered in 1930, is in fact a member of the Kuiper Belt. Astronomers now use the Kuiper Belt to learn about the history of the solar system, much as paleontologists use fossils to study early life. Each event that affected the outer solar system - such as possible gravitational disturbances from passing stars or long-vanished planets - is frozen into the properties of the Kuiper Belt members that astronomers see today. If the Hubble telescope could search the entire sky, it would find perhaps a half million planetesimals. If collected into a single planet, however, the resulting object would be only a few times larger than Pluto. The new Hubble observations, combined with the latest ground-based Kuiper Belt surveys, reinforce the idea that Pluto itself and its moon Charon are just large Kuiper Belt members. Why the Kuiper Belt planetesimals did not form a larger planet, and why there are fewer small planetesimals than expected, are questions that will be answered with further Kuiper Belt studies. These studies will help astronomers understand how planets may have formed around other stars as well. The new Hubble results were reported by Bernstein and David Trilling
[meteorite-list] Charles Lee Pillmore, Geologist, Dies At 73
http://www.trib.com/AP/wire_detail.php?wire_num=191539 Pillmore, geologist, dies at 73 Associated Press September 7, 2003 DENVER (AP) - Charles Lee Pillmore, whose discovery of a Tyrannosaurus rex track has helped paleontologists better understand the dinosaur, has died. Pillmore died Aug. 22 of prostate cancer at the age of 73. A memorial service was scheduled for Saturday in Golden. Pillmore was a geologist for the U.S. Geological Survey when he discovered the track in 1983. It was named ''Tyrannosaurus pillmorei,'' in his honor. The print helped paleontologists understand more about how that foot could support a Tyrannosaurus rex's weight - up to 6 tons - and height of 60 feet. It also helped establish the range of the dinosaur. Pillmore also identified a layer of thin white clay in the Raton basin that marked the abrupt end of many pollen species, with concentrations of cosmic elements, including iridium, up to 7,000 times higher than in the underlying layer. His documentation helped bolster the theory that a large asteroid collision led to the abrupt extinction of dinosaurs and other species. The late scientist Gene Shoemaker named a newly discovered asteroid in his honor: Pillmore 4368. Survivors include wife Arlene Pillmore of Lakewood; daughter Kathy Pillmore Schindler of Centennial; son Roy Pillmore of Raton, N.M.; and seven grandchildren. His daughter Karen Pillmore Bow died of breast cancer in 2001. Memorial donations can be sent to the Charles Pillmore Memorial Fund of the Colorado Scientific Society, P.O. Box 150495, Lakewood, CO 80215. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Museum of Northern Arizona 75th Anniversary (Winona Meteorite)
http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=72660 By COLIN HOTCHKISS The Daily Sun (Arizona) September 7, 2003 [snip] The Museum of Northern Arizona is celebrating its 75th anniversary. [snip] Many people were seemingly drawn from the other lectures to listen to the overwhelming, ambiance-inducing music. Eventually, though, a majority of the attendees found their way to one of the other presentations. The first was a presentation the Winona Meteorite by Jerry Snow, who was in character as Major Lionel F. Brady, one of the museum's founders. Brady was also one of the first people contacted after the discovery of the meteorite. The meteorite was found near a more ancient site and had been buried very deliberately. They (archaeologists) think that the Indians probably saw this fall from the sky, said Snow and were so impressed that they gave it a special burial in their cemetery. The meteorite was so fragile that it shattered into several pieces upon closer inspection. A part of it has been on display since it was found 75 years ago in September 1928. [snip] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Flash Of Light In Sky Seen By Many Across California
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/7408172p-8327201c.html Flash of light in sky seen by many across the state The Modesto Bee September 7, 2003 From their back yard, the Modesto family saw the sky light up like a big Roman candle. It was a bright flash, then turned purple. It had a huge tail, Steve Taylor said of the Thursday night light show. The streak went on for 8 or 9 seconds, Taylor said. That's a long time for a shooting star. In fact, it likely came from an asteroid or space debris, burning up as it hit the Earth's atmosphere, the North American Aerospace Defense Command declared after a brief investigation. Sometimes the California sky lights up with a rocket launch from Vandenburg Air Force Base in Southern California, but the base reported no launches Thursday night. Taylor and his wife, Nancy, and son Wade were in their back yard on Merle Avenue at about 8:30 p.m. when they saw the sky light up. They were among people from Napa to Palm Springs who reported the light show, with many describing bluish white flashes moving west to northwest. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Park Forest Pictures
Hello List, For all the Park Forest enthusiasts... I just uploaded pictures of a few specimens from my collection. One 62 gram Frag with regmaglypts . Please take a look at the following link: http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/spacerox2001 Have a good evening! Bob Evans __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Correlation of Fa Fs for ordinary chondrites
Hi All, I decided it was still too hot to go to the desert this weekend, so instead I spent the better part of today on a problem I've been meaning to tackle for a few months. Hopefully my results will be useful to someone here. I don't know if the work is quite worthy of a paper -- perhaps. My interest in the problem primarily has to do with pairing of equilibrated ordinary chondrites. While some labs measure both olivine fayalite (Fa) and pyroxene ferrosilite (Fs) mol %, others measure only one or the other (usually Fa). Occasionally, you'll have two specimens that are potentially paired, but Fa was measured on one, and Fs on the other. As it turns out, Fa and Fs are somewhat correlated, and thus it is possible to derive expressions for converting one value to the other, within certain error bars. So I created a database containing only Antarctic equilibrated ordinary chondrites that had measured values for both Fa and Fs, subdivided by type and petrologic grade. As you might imagine, this took a while! I excluded meteorites that had ranges (rather than single values) listed for either Fa or Fs, and I tossed out five outliers that would have unduly skewed the statistics. That still left me with 3449 meteorites! I plotted these in Excel, with separate symbols and colors for H4, H5, H6, L4, L5, L6, LL4, LL5, LL6 and LL7. It turns out that there were no major correlation differences between petrologic grades within each type, so I lumped all the grades together and did linear regression fits for H, L and LL. Here are the results for converting a ferrosilite value into a fayalite value: H: Fa = .932*Fs + 3.20 rms residual = +/- 0.38% (2448 points) L: Fa = .958*Fs + 4.60 rms residual = +/- 0.57% (801 points) LL: Fa = 1.057*Fs + 3.76 rms residual = +/- 0.66% (200 points) (I have corresponding equations for going in the reverse direction. I also computed the linear coefficients by petrologic grade if that interests anyone). When you consider that most of the Antarctic Fa and Fs values were given to the nearest whole number percentage, I'd say the fit is quite good. Cheers, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fw: TOP METEORITE COLLECTION SPECIMEN OFFER with bargin prices!!!
- Original Message - From: Michael Cottingham To: Michael Cottingham Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 10:28 PM Subject: Fw: TOP METEORITE COLLECTION SPECIMEN OFFER with bargin prices!!! Hello Everyone, Some really choice items for sale. PAYPAL or Money Order ONLY. I would prefer MONEY ORDERS. I have added prices to the items belowbargins galore!!! Best Wishes Michael Cottingham Go To This Link to see All the photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/goatman38 Open the file marked "Top Meteorite Collection Specimens" Try the slide show presentation...I think it works very well. CAMPOS SALES, L5, Ceara, Brazil, Fell; January 31, 1991 at 2200hrs. Endcut... 133.37 gram... $550.00 FALSEY DRAW, L6 Chondrite, Chaves County, New Mexico, Found 1997, TKW 4.18 kg. Complete Slice...200 gram $425.00 FREDERICKSBURG, Hexahedrite IIAB, Fredericksburg, Texas, Found 1930's, TKW 30kg. Endcut... 648 gram $950.00 HAMMADAH AL HAMRA 183, LL6 Chondrite, Jabal al Gharb, Libya, Found 1996, TKW 5kg. End Piece with 3 cut faces. 562 gram.. $500.00 KAINSAZ, CO3, Tartar Republic, Russia, Fell; Sept., 13, 1937, TKW 200kg. Whole Stone 140.33 gram $1100.00 KUNASHANK, L6, Chelyabinskaya, Russia, Fell June 11, 1949 @ 0814hrs, TKW 200kg. Half Slice. 256 gram. $825.00 NORTHBRANCH, H5 Chondrite, Jewell County, Kansas, Found 1972, TKW 76kg. Endcut... 1750 gram. $950.00 NWA 250, L6 Chondrite, Eastern Morocco, Found 2000, TKW 69 kg. Complete slice 572 gram. $750.00 O'DONNEL, H5 Chondrite, Dawson County, Texas, USA found 1992, TKW 12.7kg. Complete Slice. 298 gram $675.00 OUM ROKBA, H5 Chondrite, Oum Rokba, Morocco, Found 2000, TKW 80kg. Individual 1426 gram... $775.00 PARK FOREST, L5 Chondrite, Cook County, Illinois, USA, Fell March 26, 20003 at 2350hrs, TKW ~20kg. Half Individual with Yellow Paint "Curb Smasher". 145.21 gram. $2000.00 POWELLSVILLE, H5 Chondrite, Scioto County, Ohio, USA, Found 1990, TKW 4.310kg. Endcut 1236 gram. $925.00 THUATHE, H4 Chondrite, Maseru, Lesotho, Fell July 21, 2002 at 1549hrs, TKW ~35kg. Individual 254 gram $1275.00 URUACU, IAB Iron, Goias, Brazil, Found 1992, TKW 72.5kg. Complete Slice.. 316 gram $715.00 WAGON MOUND, L6 Chondrite, Mora County, New Mexico, USA, Found 1932, TKW 87.5kg. Complete slice. 778 gram. $950.00 ZAG, H3-6, Western Sahara or Morocco, Fell August 1998, TKW 175kg. End Piece... 1400 gram.. $1225.00
[meteorite-list] Fw: ethnobotany and meteorites...
- Original Message - From: Michael Cottingham To: Michael Cottingham Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 10:33 PM Subject: ethnobotany and meteorites... Hello Everyone, Besides doing meteorites as a business (when I can these days!) Here is something some of you might be interested in! It is my path of service. check this link out: www.plant-planet.net/Voyage_Botanica.htm Best Wishes Michael Cottingham
[meteorite-list] Fur Flies As Dinosaur Experts Feud
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2003/09/08/2003067003 Fur flies as dinosaur experts feud BONES TO PICK: The row about what wiped out the dinosaurs has sparked allegations of deception and unethical behavior in scientific circles BY ROBIN MCKIETHE OBSERVER Tapei Times September 8, 2003 The world's biggest bang wiped out the dinosaurs in a cataclysm that swathed our planet in choking dust -- or at least that is what many paleontologists claim. Others say dinosaurs died out gradually as Earth's climate and geology changed. It sounds a typical academic dispute -- but last week it erupted into open warfare. Allegations have been made of deceit and unethical behavior. One scientist is even alleged to have held back inconvenient evidence. This affair has become an object lesson on how partisan and unethical the whole dinosaur controversy has become, said Norman MacLeod, keeper of paleontology at London's Natural History Museum. Young scientists are now refusing to get involved in this field because no matter what they say it will offend someone and damage their careers. It's like the nature-nurture debate. No matter what you say, someone will hate you for it. The furore focuses on a massive drilling project set up to study the Chicxulub crater in Yucatan. Buried under half a mile of rock, the crater was created 65 million years ago when Earth was hit by a meteorite 16km in diameter. The blast would have blotted out the sun for decades, or even centuries, many researchers claim. Given that around this time the dinosaurs became extinct, many scientists made a direct link. Denied sunlight and food, most of the world's animals would have starved, and choked, to death. But others disagree. Volcanoes, global warming or sea level changes were responsible, they say -- pointing to evidence that most dinosaurs became extinct before the explosion and to the fact that many large animals such as alligators survived this alleged catastrophe. Things weren't that bad, they say. In a bid to resolve the dispute, a US$3 million project was launched in Yucatan two years ago. Researchers drilled a pipe into the Earth's crust to bring back samples of the meteor and crater wall. By studying what happened just before and just after the meteorite impact, scientists would glean critical insights, it was argued. For example, it would show if all life was extinguished in the millennia that followed the impact. In 2002 the first samples were brought up. To the disgust of Mexican geologists, and to many scientists who doubted the Big Blast theory, these were entrusted to Jan Smit, a geologist at the Free University of Amsterdam and a leading supporter of the meteorite hypothesis. Promising to cut up the samples and distribute them to project scientists, Smit left with the precious Chicxulub remains. A year later, many scientists were still seeking the promised samples. We were dismayed, geochemist Erika Elswick of Indiana University in Bloomington states in the current issue of Nature. There was no explanation given, no apology. Eventually some samples were sent out, but most were too small for experiments. Dismay turned to fury. Researcher Gerta Keller, of Princeton University, pressed Smit and at last got a good set of samples. At the European Union of Geosciences conference in Nice, she presented her results, which were a bombshell. Her research, Keller claimed, clearly showed that marine plankton, far from being killed off by debris blotting out the sun, thrived for hundreds of thousands of years after the crater was created. The meteor that struck at Chicxulub was not responsible for mass extinctions, she concluded. Nor is Keller reticent in her interpretation of Smit's behavior. He tried to postpone our results so that he could remain unchallenged at that meeting, she states in Nature. Smit dismisses the allegation as ridiculous. He blames the delays on his busy schedule and poor communications by those running the project. He also claims Keller misidentified some fossils in her samples. The row is far from over. Project scientists are preparing papers containing results of studies of the samples they obtained from Smit and these will be published in a special issue of Meteoritics and Planetary Science next year. Few doubt it will resolve the issue. As MacLeod says: It's no longer about science. It's about reputations. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
