Re: [meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
Sterling W. writes: I don't know the values for the Nubia Sandstone, but the range of sandstones is fluorine 180 to 450 ppm and boron about 10 to 85 ppm. The figures for LDG is fluorine 7 ppm and boron 7 ppm, so you see how the ratios shift as the content drops. As the temperature rises (microsecond by microsecond), the fluorine content drops much faster than the boron content. At some very high temperature (variable for each source rock), both fluorine and boron levels become the same, but at a higher level than in the final product. After that point, both are driven out of the melt plasma at the same rate, their petty chemical differences totally overwhelmed by the energy available. So, fluorine goes faster until that point is reached, after then, they drop together. Hola Sterling, Petty chemical differenceshm.overwhelmed at moment x when they behave identically (this is the cartoon and then a miracle happens and we get the desired solution)...I hope you can do better than this! This last paragraph has pegged my bogometer and the needle broke as I see physical laws being bent to accomodate your interesting and provolking speculations. It's either the most unfounded, unscientific argument and counterintuitive I've ever heard you seriously make - or - you speak about this thermometer as if you actually were there watching the impact and taking notes by the microsecond on how Boron and Fluorine behave under singular circumstances and states that are poorly defined to start with! I didn't dispute the use of [F]:[B] to compare different forms from the same source rock (a reasonable use of the thermometer), that is not what you are doing. I hope you can see how you are pulling numbers from out of the air which are all over the map and cooking pretty conclusions out of them. To answer my question, I'd back up and ask for the following modest data: 1. reference - Where you got moldavites bottoming out at [B]=30 ppm (for [F]=30 ppm, at least)? 2. Based on how many samples is your typical value [F]:[B] of Ivory Coast tektites and what was the low end for the ratio? Was it a lot less than 1? How would your physics' scheme explain a value below 0.5 for the ratiosince you have re-enforced the point I most object to by saying they magically reach the same concentration and then decrease equally... 3. Without the respective values of F,B in Nubian sandstone near the crater, my question isn't anywhere near answered:( !! You mentioned: It looks like LDG had a very hot forming event, so the high water content is a real puzzle. It's only a real problem puzzle in this context because you have read too much into and extrapolated much too far with the halogen thermometer concept. The water, rather than being a problem to explain, might be telling you that the F:B interpretation and extrapolations are all wet..., there is also a failure to consider different resident times for the measureables in the melt as yet another additional consideration. Not to mention of course the alternative or coincident possibility that LDG's have that content due to the low or surface altitude at which they formed... And this: ALL terrestrial rocks have a F/B ratio greater than 5.0 (often 20 or 30). but all impact glasses, even the weakest dirtiest just barely melted impact glasses have a F/B ratio less than 5.0 -- the result of a few thousand degrees of heating. ALL is a very encompasing term. Are you sure it wasn't mentioned principally regarding a total of two dozen tektite samples and three events for which the craters are known, weighted grossly in favor of Indochinites - rather than the whole wide world? Sure, 5 quite possibly is the minimum in unimpacted sediments worldwide but I'd need more than an arbitrary statement to believe it after reading the other assertations...are we still refering to Dr. Koerbel's work? Bedtime, I have a date with a comet in a couple of hours:), 'Night,Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WANTED: 'Giveaways' for school students
Hi list... I posted a similar request directly to three list members last Monday, but only one has gotten back to me so far (thanks Dean!). I'm a secondary school Science teacher in the UK. I've been asked to plan a day of space related activities for a small group of our 'gifted and talented' students. I intend to spend the afternoon discussing and looking at meteorites and (as several other list members have done) would like to have small (maybe 30-40g) stones to give to each student. Dean is happy to supply unclassified material, but I wonder if any other list members have enough similarly sized NWA869 stones available? I'm after approximately 20 stones in the 30-40g range. If you have, please feel free to contact me with a cost including UK shipping. Other affordable (i.e. cheap!) suggestions would be considered. Thanks also to all the contributors to the recent thread on meteorite presentations, some great ideas in there that I will be using! Thanks, Matt. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
Gee, Doug, For once, I am not creating a crackers theory of my own. I am merely explaining how a certain geochemical test procedure works. Not being a geo- or a cosmo- chemist, I am taking the word of Matthies, D. and Kroeberl, C., Fluorine and Boron Geochemistry of Tektites, Impact Glasses, and Target Rocks, Meteoritics, 26 (1991), 41-45, both of whom AM geochemists. Also, see K. H. Wedepohl, Handbook of Geochemistry (1978). Blah, blah. Think about it. You gotta rock. Mixture of complicated crystals. Many elements. Huge heating event. Rock melts. Rock vaporizes. Molecules dissociate. Now it's a plasma, composed entirely of elements, too hot to form compounds. The volatile elements in this plasma escape from the plasma faster than the less volatile, which in turn escape faster than the refractory (who are stubborn and hang around). The plasma continues to heat. Volatiles go faster and faster. At a high enough temperature, the mean free path of atoms and their rate of escape is pretty much totally determined by the thermal energy of the plasma and the mass of the atom and the chemical characteristics of the substance matter not at all. It's physics now, not chemistry. Element 5 (mass 11) and element 9 (mass 19) are both moving like there was a 38,000 degree plasma on their tail (and there is). They now escape at a similar rate. Get the literature. Look at the pretty graphs that show how it works. There's some chemical reason why this happens about the time they're at the same concentration, but I forget it. It's chemistry. Me, when I look at things like equilibrium condensation diagrams or the reverse of same, my eyes start to glaze over... So I just take their word for it. But as a physical phenomenon, it fits my intuition. Look at the other light atoms. Not many of them hanging around either. Makes silly hand gestures, points to self. I no chemist. Physicist. Like big things (universe, stars, planets, rocks the size of countries). Like little things (quarks, leptons, cute little bosons, petite atoms). Don't like things inbetween. That's why God made chemists and botanists. Let them sort it out. They like that sort of thing for some reason... In 1962, when the number of elementary particles officially went over 200, Enrico Fermi, getting old and cranky, yelled, Look at this f***g zoo! If I wanted this mess, I'd have become a botanist! (He was right; how can you have more elementary particles making up elements than there are elements? Maybe it means that making elements is hard.) Crusty old physicists. Show me String Theory when you can put the whole thing on ONE PAGE. Otherwise, go back and work on it some more. Deep breath. The F/B ratios for ALL terrestrial rocks comes from Kroeberl and Company (all of this does). That's for the bulk compositional analyses of crustal rocks everywhere that geologists have made 100,000's of for the last century or so. Boring... Boron's just not as common as fluorine. The ratios run 10:1, 20:1, 30:1. Earth rock just isn't (in bulk) boronic. That crusty stuff in Death Valley doesn't count... If boron was common, would they have send Ronald Reagan and those 20 mules into Death Valley? (Old TV referrence.) If you think this is all hooey, complain to Kroeberl and Co. Also Wedepohl, who publishes thick books full of endless tables of bulk elemental compsitions. Lemme know what happens. Seriously, I am miffed. I don't think this stuff is whacky enough to be one of my whacky notions, and I'm insulted that anyone should think so... Obviously, I'm not being whacky enough. I'm quiting. It's late enough that I could go out and wave at that comet myself. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 2:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG Sterling W. writes: I don't know the values for the Nubia Sandstone, but the range of sandstones is fluorine 180 to 450 ppm and boron about 10 to 85 ppm. The figures for LDG is fluorine 7 ppm and boron 7 ppm, so you see how the ratios shift as the content drops. As the temperature rises (microsecond by microsecond), the fluorine content drops much faster than the boron content. At some very high temperature (variable for each source rock), both fluorine and boron levels become the same, but at a higher level than in the final product. After that point, both are driven out of the melt plasma at the same rate, their petty chemical differences totally overwhelmed by the energy available. So, fluorine goes faster until that point is reached, after then, they drop together. Hola Sterling, Petty chemical differenceshm.overwhelmed at moment x when they behave identically (this is the cartoon and then a miracle happens and we get the desired
RE: [meteorite-list] OT: 1859 aurora in HI
Hi Tracy and list, I certainly had fun looking at the data I did find. I had more relevant info turn up with my first search string than my second, results below. All the best and good luck to your librarian friend. Kevin Forbes. VK3UKF. Google search string 1859 aurora Extensive data http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_031027.html Mention only http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solar_flare_031028.html Extensive data http://www.rainbowriderstradingpost.com/article1.html Historical document sold on eBay, check this out before eBay delete the ad, it has been sold. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Orig-1859-Melb-OBSERVATORY-Aurora-Sunspots- etc_W0QQitemZ7009624488QQcategoryZ11100QQcmdZViewItem Extensive data http://www.oulu.fi/~spaceweb/textbook/great_aurora.html Eyewitness/writers name mentioned http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=ssid=79 Extensive data http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF5/518.html Good info names http://www.solarstorms.org/SOlmsted.html Forum discussion http://www.spacew.com/forum/index.php/topic,68.0.html Extensive historical data http://www.albany.edu/faculty/rgk/atm101/aurora.htm PDF http://pwg.gsfc.nasa.gov/polar/EPO/auroral_poster/aurora_all.pdf Mentions demise of telegraph systems, describes the failures during the aurora http://earlyradiohistory.us/1860auro.htm Google search string 1859 aurora hawaii http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/perfect_space_storm.html http://www.cronaca.com/archives/001611.html Our librarian is searching for information relating to an aurora that supposedly was visible from the Hawaiian islands (all right, the Sandwich Islands) in 1859. She has searched all the available local records, newspapers, genealogies and accounts, but has come up blank. Something like an aurora should have been pretty spectacular to be seen in Hawaii; does anyone have other resources she might check? Thanks! Tracy Latimer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
Sterling: Sounds good to me (though I study big rocks that you can see with a telescope). It sounds like it is time for me to start reading up on tektites too! As a novice, would you basically say that tektites come from volatilized material that has recondensed while an impactite derives from melted material that never got hot enough to vaporize. Obviously, you would have ranges of materials (hotter vapor or hotter and more devolatilized liquid). Larry PS Did you see the comet? Never been clear enough and no access to a telescope where I am. Quoting Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gee, Doug, For once, I am not creating a crackers theory of my own. I am merely explaining how a certain geochemical test procedure works. Not being a geo- or a cosmo- chemist, I am taking the word of Matthies, D. and Kroeberl, C., Fluorine and Boron Geochemistry of Tektites, Impact Glasses, and Target Rocks, Meteoritics, 26 (1991), 41-45, both of whom AM geochemists. Also, see K. H. Wedepohl, Handbook of Geochemistry (1978). Blah, blah. Think about it. You gotta rock. Mixture of complicated crystals. Many elements. Huge heating event. Rock melts. Rock vaporizes. Molecules dissociate. Now it's a plasma, composed entirely of elements, too hot to form compounds. The volatile elements in this plasma escape from the plasma faster than the less volatile, which in turn escape faster than the refractory (who are stubborn and hang around). The plasma continues to heat. Volatiles go faster and faster. At a high enough temperature, the mean free path of atoms and their rate of escape is pretty much totally determined by the thermal energy of the plasma and the mass of the atom and the chemical characteristics of the substance matter not at all. It's physics now, not chemistry. Element 5 (mass 11) and element 9 (mass 19) are both moving like there was a 38,000 degree plasma on their tail (and there is). They now escape at a similar rate. Get the literature. Look at the pretty graphs that show how it works. There's some chemical reason why this happens about the time they're at the same concentration, but I forget it. It's chemistry. Me, when I look at things like equilibrium condensation diagrams or the reverse of same, my eyes start to glaze over... So I just take their word for it. But as a physical phenomenon, it fits my intuition. Look at the other light atoms. Not many of them hanging around either. Makes silly hand gestures, points to self. I no chemist. Physicist. Like big things (universe, stars, planets, rocks the size of countries). Like little things (quarks, leptons, cute little bosons, petite atoms). Don't like things inbetween. That's why God made chemists and botanists. Let them sort it out. They like that sort of thing for some reason... In 1962, when the number of elementary particles officially went over 200, Enrico Fermi, getting old and cranky, yelled, Look at this f***g zoo! If I wanted this mess, I'd have become a botanist! (He was right; how can you have more elementary particles making up elements than there are elements? Maybe it means that making elements is hard.) Crusty old physicists. Show me String Theory when you can put the whole thing on ONE PAGE. Otherwise, go back and work on it some more. Deep breath. The F/B ratios for ALL terrestrial rocks comes from Kroeberl and Company (all of this does). That's for the bulk compositional analyses of crustal rocks everywhere that geologists have made 100,000's of for the last century or so. Boring... Boron's just not as common as fluorine. The ratios run 10:1, 20:1, 30:1. Earth rock just isn't (in bulk) boronic. That crusty stuff in Death Valley doesn't count... If boron was common, would they have send Ronald Reagan and those 20 mules into Death Valley? (Old TV referrence.) If you think this is all hooey, complain to Kroeberl and Co. Also Wedepohl, who publishes thick books full of endless tables of bulk elemental compsitions. Lemme know what happens. Seriously, I am miffed. I don't think this stuff is whacky enough to be one of my whacky notions, and I'm insulted that anyone should think so... Obviously, I'm not being whacky enough. I'm quiting. It's late enough that I could go out and wave at that comet myself. Sterling K. Webb -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Larry A. Lebofsky Senior Research Scientist Co-editor, Meteorite __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT 1859 Aurora
Sterling: Hello, as I told Tracy in a direct email, I was better in science than history. In reading the accounts of the 1859 aurora, it's amazing that knowing it happened has been ignored by communications and power companies. It would be devastating if (when) it happens again. Tracy, thanks for bringing it up, it's really fascinating reading and not that off-topic. George __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle
I'm sure the data I'm looking for doesnt exist in a handy format anywhere, but I figured I'd ask the smart people of the meteorite list incase it does. does any one know of a handy tabular collection of data on meteoriod entry angle vs strewnfield ellipse dimensions for various types of stone meteorites? TIA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle
It would be difficult to compile such a list. Where a meteorite results from an object that experiences a single fragmentation event (which presumably describes most cases), the strewn field is not strongly related to the entry details, but is instead defined by the wind conditions at the time. After the fragmentation, the debris is initially stretched out along the axis of flight, with heavier components carrying further forward. But this forward momentum is quickly lost, and the pattern can change considerably during several minutes of cold flight. Tail winds compress the size of the field, head winds stretch it out, and any wind component at an angle to the entry path broadens and tilts the field. Multiple fragmentation events produce multiple strewn fields, although they may overlap and be recognized only as a single distribution. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle I'm sure the data I'm looking for doesnt exist in a handy format anywhere, but I figured I'd ask the smart people of the meteorite list incase it does. does any one know of a handy tabular collection of data on meteoriod entry angle vs strewnfield ellipse dimensions for various types of stone meteorites? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] (ad) gibeon/canyon diablo
Good morning list.All good things have got to come to an end.I have a little over 1 kilo of CANYON DIABLO forsale.No trading!.40 cents a gram for the whole kilo plus.If interested,I will break it down for you.Also since there are no takers for the gibeon,$375 takes it home.Paypal only for these items.There are 6 individually sculpted pieces.That comes out to$463.Some pics are on my website.Let me know off list. steve arnold,chicago Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle
Chris, Thanks for the detailed reply. What about a listing of strenfield dimensions sorted by type of stone? Thanks. Stan From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:39:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from six.pairlist.net ([209.68.2.254]) by bay0-mc12-f2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 07:41:06 -0800 Received: from six.pairlist.net (localhost [127.0.0.1])by six.pairlist.net (Postfix) with ESMTPid 8261E2BDF2; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:41:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mu.pair.com (mu.pair.com [209.68.1.23])by six.pairlist.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CC7EF2C87Cfor [EMAIL PROTECTED];Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:41:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 21427 invoked by uid 7111); 5 Mar 2006 15:41:02 - Received: (qmail 21424 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2006 15:41:02 - Received: from mailwash5.pair.com (66.39.2.5)by mu.pair.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2006 15:41:02 - Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])by mailwash5.pair.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 78D898D649for meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:41:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.alumni.caltech.edu (posteaux1.caltech.edu[131.215.239.119])by mailwash5.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4F48D62Bfor meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:41:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from bellatrix (dpc6682192182.direcpc.com [66.82.192.182])by mail.alumni.caltech.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B87214147for Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;Sun, 5 Mar 2006 07:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.1.2/274]);Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:39:55 -0700 X-Message-Info: oZ2qq1sZ3e7uKTlpeu1aTLAyzhbGrHPwQIxa66yo/c8= X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: arthur-meteoritecentral:[EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-MailScanner-Information-Alumni: Please contact the Alumni Office for moreinformation X-MailScanner-Alumni: No Virii found X-Spam-Flag: + X-MailScanner-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-BeenThere: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Meteorite Discussion Forum meteorite-list.meteoritecentral.com List-Unsubscribe: http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list,mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list List-Post: mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list,mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2006 15:41:06.0458 (UTC) FILETIME=[379137A0:01C6406B] It would be difficult to compile such a list. Where a meteorite results from an object that experiences a single fragmentation event (which presumably describes most cases), the strewn field is not strongly related to the entry details, but is instead defined by the wind conditions at the time. After the fragmentation, the debris is initially stretched out along the axis of flight, with heavier components carrying further forward. But this forward momentum is quickly lost, and the pattern can change considerably during several minutes of cold flight. Tail winds compress the size of the field, head winds stretch it out, and any wind component at an angle to the entry path broadens and tilts the field. Multiple fragmentation events produce multiple strewn fields, although they may overlap and be recognized only as a single distribution. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle I'm sure the data I'm looking for doesnt exist in a handy format anywhere, but I figured I'd ask the smart people of the meteorite list incase it does. does any one know of a handy tabular collection of data on meteoriod entry angle vs strewnfield ellipse dimensions for various types of stone meteorites? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Looking for a piece of Kendleton L4 chondrite
Hello everybody, just wanted to let you know that I'am in the market for a moderately priced piece of the Kendleton L4 meteorite. Specimen should be a slice, partslice or prefferedly an endcut but should not exceed 5 mm in thickness. Thanks for any offers in advance. best regards Svend www.niger-meteorite-recon.de www.rollin-rock.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] eight below
Hello again list.My wife and I went to go see 2 movies yesterday.One of them was EIGHT BELOW.The major theme is about the 8 dogs that get rescued.But one of the underlying themes is a scientist comes all the way from australia looking for meteorites in the antartic.He has come down to find the first meteorite from mercury.It looked like an iron with all the thumbprinting.So who says a major movie can't have meteorites in it?By the way,it was a very good movie. steve Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Looking for a piece of Kendleton L4 chondrite
Check my website, I have one very nice piece of Kendleton left. Mike Farmer http://www.meteoritehunter.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr. Svend Buhl Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:07 AM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for a piece of Kendleton L4 chondrite Hello everybody, just wanted to let you know that I'am in the market for a moderately priced piece of the Kendleton L4 meteorite. Specimen should be a slice, partslice or prefferedly an endcut but should not exceed 5 mm in thickness. Thanks for any offers in advance. best regards Svend www.niger-meteorite-recon.de www.rollin-rock.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle
I know a formula does exist for this because I did my 3rd year undergraduate project on exactly this and I and another student wrote it. It involved a lot of empirical evidence and formulating a formula which fitted the very few properly observed falls and seeing if it could be extrapolated to other strewn fields. The formula predicted very well the size distribution for these and even allowed us to predict the incoming angle for unobserved meteorite falls. The formula also has a modification factor depending on whether it was a stony or iron meteorite. Obviously, I don't have a copy of this to hand it having been 13 years ago and I don't have the resources (nor the ability, which has waned sadly in the intervening period) to re-derive it. However, if you were to find an address or e-mail for Professor David Hughes from Sheffield University, UK, I dare say he sitll has it lying around in his office as he was the Planetary Astronomer I studdied under. Rob McCafferty __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle
Hi Rob- I think your methodology probably resulted in a biased formula. Falls connected with witnessed fireballs are strongly associated with shallow entry paths. Shallow paths produce multiple fragmentation events, or single fragmentation events that extend over a long ground path. This results in a strewn field that is more closely aligned with the entry path. As the path becomes steeper, high altitude winds become more significant. For entry angles greater than about 60° (from the vertical), winds are the dominant factor in predicting the shape of the strewn field. I need to use radiosonde data to estimate the potential strewn field for most of the fireballs I track. Actually, the wind data is essential to predict the _location_ of the field with respect to the fragmentation, and usually important to predict the orientation and size of the strewn field. Of course, my analysis is theoretical, not empirical. There simply isn't enough data available to test the theory with any degree of statistical significance. The number of falls that produced strewn fields with multiple meteorites, and for which both atmospheric wind data and trajectory data are available, can be counted on one hand. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle I know a formula does exist for this because I did my 3rd year undergraduate project on exactly this and I and another student wrote it. It involved a lot of empirical evidence and formulating a formula which fitted the very few properly observed falls and seeing if it could be extrapolated to other strewn fields. The formula predicted very well the size distribution for these and even allowed us to predict the incoming angle for unobserved meteorite falls. The formula also has a modification factor depending on whether it was a stony or iron meteorite. Obviously, I don't have a copy of this to hand it having been 13 years ago and I don't have the resources (nor the ability, which has waned sadly in the intervening period) to re-derive it. However, if you were to find an address or e-mail for Professor David Hughes from Sheffield University, UK, I dare say he sitll has it lying around in his office as he was the Planetary Astronomer I studdied under. Rob McCafferty __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for a piece of Kendleton L4 chondrite
I have a 32.9 gr. end piece with crust of Kendleton buy years ago from the collection of Guy Heinen, after this I not have seen other pieces similar... Matteo --- Dr. Svend Buhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Hello everybody, just wanted to let you know that I'am in the market for a moderately priced piece of the Kendleton L4 meteorite. Specimen should be a slice, partslice or prefferedly an endcut but should not exceed 5 mm in thickness. Thanks for any offers in advance. best regards Svend www.niger-meteorite-recon.de www.rollin-rock.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] eight below
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:08:49 -0800 (PST), you wrote: thumbprinting.So who says a major movie can't have meteorites in it?By the Okay, I give up. Who says that? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Hunting hours vs recovery rate
Hi All, Have you ever wondered how many hours you must spend before your first cold find ? Or how many hours after you find a new area with a new meteorite before your next find? I would like to say that you will find a meteorite every 40- 50 hours of searching for cold finds not counting driving or prep time. The only problem is once you find one you will spend 4-5 days or longer searching the area looking for the rest of the meteorite or the continuation of the strewn field. In my own experience in a know strewnfield ( Gold Basin) I spent 16 hours of hunting plus 6 hours driving time for my first meteorite. I might have recovered one faster if it was not for the 10 pounds of meterwrongs I was carrying in my pockets before I found one. On some of the new areas I have spent as little as 4 hours before a new find in a new location. I have also spent weeks before a new find at 8 to 10 hour days. In a strewnfield that I have been working there are times were you may not find one for a week and then find one or two. In one area a friend I spent 3 days hunting before the frist find. We spent 2 more days looking for the next find paired to the first find. We have done 3 more trips to the location for a few more pieces. Average hunting day 8 hours plus 4-8 hours driving time to get to location one way. I would like to say the average time to find a meteorite in a known is location 2-20 hours. For a new cold find from a area with no finds may take 50 plus hours of hunting not counting driving or prep time. I am interested in hearing input from other hunters especially from the Southwest. I have been asked by some new meteorite hunters what they can expect before they find their first meteorite. Thanks, Sonny __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle
Chris I dare say you are right about it being a biased formula and the data set we had to work with was very limited as you point out. Thoroughly documented falls leading to strewn fields of known dimensions may even have been less than 5 at the time but memory isn't that great after these years. The equation did work remarkably well, though and a lot of theoretical work went into the original equation. Sadly, a purely theoretical method didn't even produce fragmentation events in many cases, with frictional forces increasing all the way to impact rather than causing fragmentation and we had to modify the equation based on fragmentation at a certain pressure rather than at maximum resistance. This allowed large pieces to break up and smaller ones to survive. It wasn't tidy and I never could really satisfactorily justify the Normalisation factor value for each type of meteorite, for which I was marked down heavily. The fact that it worked was irrelevant to my rather demanding task-master. It is most likely that we did something wrong in the theory. The major problem we found is the one you have, there's not enough data to properly test a theoretical model. When we tried, it failed miserably so we did an empirical one instead since we had to at least complete the task given. Winds were soething we took into account I seem to recall but I think we calculated that unless the winds are really high, they didn't make much difference. Only the really small pieces tend to get blown about by more than a couple of hundred yards and since many strewn fields were huge we generally ignored them and only worked with pieces larger than a certain size. (I don't remember how small but I'm pretty sure I have a meteorite sample that's bigger than it). Of course, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we got that terribly wrong too. Rob McCafferty --- Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rob- I think your methodology probably resulted in a biased formula. Falls connected with witnessed fireballs are strongly associated with shallow entry paths. Shallow paths produce multiple fragmentation events, or single fragmentation events that extend over a long ground path. This results in a strewn field that is more closely aligned with the entry path. As the path becomes steeper, high altitude winds become more significant. For entry angles greater than about 60° (from the vertical), winds are the dominant factor in predicting the shape of the strewn field. I need to use radiosonde data to estimate the potential strewn field for most of the fireballs I track. Actually, the wind data is essential to predict the _location_ of the field with respect to the fragmentation, and usually important to predict the orientation and size of the strewn field. Of course, my analysis is theoretical, not empirical. There simply isn't enough data available to test the theory with any degree of statistical significance. The number of falls that produced strewn fields with multiple meteorites, and for which both atmospheric wind data and trajectory data are available, can be counted on one hand. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] strewnfield size vs entry angle I know a formula does exist for this because I did my 3rd year undergraduate project on exactly this and I and another student wrote it. It involved a lot of empirical evidence and formulating a formula which fitted the very few properly observed falls and seeing if it could be extrapolated to other strewn fields. The formula predicted very well the size distribution for these and even allowed us to predict the incoming angle for unobserved meteorite falls. The formula also has a modification factor depending on whether it was a stony or iron meteorite. Obviously, I don't have a copy of this to hand it having been 13 years ago and I don't have the resources (nor the ability, which has waned sadly in the intervening period) to re-derive it. However, if you were to find an address or e-mail for Professor David Hughes from Sheffield University, UK, I dare say he sitll has it lying around in his office as he was the Planetary Astronomer I studdied under. Rob McCafferty __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
[meteorite-list] New Texas Meteorites.....or not.
Look at this guys new Texas meteorites. Ruben http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-from-TEXAS-CRATER-BLAST-23-5-GRAMS_W0QQitemZ6610939394QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Possible comet detonation. Request for data and analysis assistance.
Hello folks, the proposal request form failed so here it is via standard email. I have also made a windows media movie of the anomaly in three wavelengths, as well as a LASCO C3 clip that shows the largest of the cometary fragments on its death dive. I believe there may be as many as 4 fragments, but I need to see higher resolution LASCO C3 data. See my webpage at QSL.net to download the movie. http://www.qsl.net/vk3ukf/index.html TOPIC: Comets Proposal title: Cometary detonation in the corona Hello folks, I am seeking EIT data for 171, 195, 284 and 304 Angstroms, between the dates of July 1 2005 and July 31 2005, as well as high resolution LASCO c3 data for the same period. I believe I have come across images of what may be a comet or minor planetary body, detonating in the Sun's corona, near the limb. I have seen two comets on the same trajectory, and possibly another two fragment. The detonation appears before the main comets appear. I want to check data previous to their appearance for smaller fragments on the same trajectory. I would also like very much to liase with a team member for the analysis of the data. The possible detonantion appears at the 3 O'Clock position on the Mpegs I downloaded from the SOHO site last year. I have taken a while to get around to following it up as I was sure all the other folks pouring over the data would spot it. It seems they have not, although the comets seem to be listed. The anomaly is visible in EIT 171, 284, 304 for dates 18 and 19 July 2005. It does not appear on images for those dates on EIT 195 data, I am unaware for a reason for this. I have not yet looked at spacecraft or instrument design. Also, what is the image format of the data that I downloaded from the archive server? Filename example, efz20050718.184810 I have scientific image format viewers, but they failed. I look forward to hearing from you. All the best to you and the team. Yours faithfully, Kevin Forbes, VK3UKF. I am not associated with an institute of any kind. Kevin W. Forbes, 15 Rudolph Street, Hoppers Crossing, Victoria, 3029, Australia. email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph. 03 97491288 P.S. I hope this is an unusual anomaly and not a speck on the lens. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions
Hello auctions go to ended, for who want look here: http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=mcomemeteorite Matteo M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice: chiama da PC a telefono a tariffe esclusive http://it.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
Hi! If we made Norm (Mr. Tektite) think because of our babble, then we did a good job. Does moving out 100,000 tektites mean that you can move from the pup tent in the back yard and get back into the house, Norm? A few loose ends... Doug, the actual language Kroeberl uses is that the F/B ratio of tektites should tend toward 1.0. This is Professional Science Speak for too complex to model exactly, but most of the cows ought to stampede in this direction... And you're right; he didn't analyze that many samples. I wish he had more data. He found one ivorite with a F/B ratio of 0.40 (means more boron than fluorine). Most results were 0.8 to 1.2, which indeed is a 'tendency toward 1.0, if you think numbers have tendencies. Actually taking the trouble to think about it, I realize that once you get a purely thermal regime, the slightly lighter boron will actually escape faster than the more pudgy fluorine, which would drive the ratio back the other way, to values higher than 1.0, but by this time you'd be dealing with temperatures so high, there wouldn't be any light elements left (my guess). Back in the days of the MetList's Great Tektite War of '01, the question of airbursts as mega-heating events was bandied about. Proponents of the mega-airburst pointed to Muong Nongs as evidence of melt-in-place. At that point I was emailing off-List with the late Darryl Futrell. He was sending me stuff and we were kicking the issues back and forth. He made one point about Muong Nongs that I pointed out was really significant; I don't think he realized how significant. He had done a lot of microscopic examination of Muong Nongs. One thing he noted that distinguished them from volcanic glasses was the nature of the microscopic voids in the tektite material. In a substance that is melted in place (big heat boils local rock; no flying or maybe just a flop and plop) is that the multitude of tiny voids are convex and isolated from each other. Gases are devolving everywhere from the melt into little bubbles, but the whole mass is cooling and they are trapped alone and still pushing outwards, hence the convexity. But in the Muong Nongs, the voids were concave and highly interconnected. In particular, they were like spiny stars. And they were everywhere, like a sponge's. This proves that the Muong Nongs formed as a rain of tiny microspheres of molten glass that fell to earth; at least, it proves it to me. To visualize it, take an acrylic clear box and fill it with marbles or ball bearings and look at the spaces between the packed spheres. The voids are 3D stars with spiny concave points or rays, all interconnected. Darryl was thinking of this purely in the context of stuff flying around next door to the crater, but I was convinced that it didn't mean that at all. I decided that the conventional view of Muong Nongs as hardly better than impact glasses, as molten splash going plop! somewhere very near the impact site, as only semi-cooked tektite material that didn't quite get transformed completely into true tektites was nothing but simple-minded hooey. Picture instead a rain of fire, immense volumes of micrometer scale droplets condensing out of clouds of rock vapor (that incidentally cover an area of hundreds of miles across) and falling to Earth in such quantities that they accumulate many inches thick in places. (Announcer: Tonight's weather: expect a rain of molten glass vapor with up to a foot of tektites on the ground by morning...) Our term microtektites characterize the ocean sediment layers of degraded glass spherules from big impacts. Muong Nongs are the terrestrial microtektite layers. As a rock, they should be characterized as a microtektite concretion. They are wet and dirty as a macro-scale sample because they were and are contaminated. The small size of the individual droplets contact welded together makes them degradable, getting wet and get dirty just like oceanic microtektites do. A rock (or big tektite) is a great piece of packaging to preserve the original composition within. A concretation of 50 micrometer particles is not. They fell (repeatedly) as tiny particles on dirt, water, plant life, big tropical bugs, perhaps the occasional hapless hominid, incorporating a lot of junk. Then, the tiny spheres of the more porous tektite started soaking up gases, water vapor, losing silica content, and so forth, a kind of weathering their more solid cousins are immune to. Oceanic microtetites decay this way and are believed to decay to clays eventually. Muong Nongs are layered, sub-layered, and sub-sub-layered, the result of many rains of fire over some short time scale. Fiery rain, fiery rain, fiery rain, and after that, fiery rain. So, again the simple impact scenario -- boom, melt, plop! -- fails. There's only one impact, hence there would be only one plop! In fact, with this composition, the one thing everybody seems certain of, that they are found near the
Re: [meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
Hi Sterling and list. I have a couple of Muong Nong and they have small brown stones stuck in them, I don't imagine this to be a rare thing in these particular tektites, as I have 2 specimens, both have rock inclusions. Would these inclusions not lend a hand in identifying, either where they came from, or where they landed ??? And, I have seen some rather large roundish tektites, (I need to get some of these) that are mainly hollow. One huge bubble of gas inside. Perhaps if some investigative person could get their hands on one, they could detect the gases trapped inside after breaking it. A hollow 3 inch tektite might have a 2 inch bubble in it. What and how?? Also, if anyone has any ideas or suggestions as to the anomaly in the Sun's corona I seem to have found, would love to hear them. I posted the notice not long ago, as a CC that was a request to the SOHO satellite team fpr assistance in analysis. See the movie and pic at, http://www.qsl.net/vk3ukf/index.html Cheers all, Kevin. VK3UKF. Hi! If we made Norm (Mr. Tektite) think because of our babble, then we did a good job. Does moving out 100,000 tektites mean that you can move from the pup tent in the back yard and get back into the house, Norm? A few loose ends... Doug, the actual language Kroeberl uses is that the F/B ratio of tektites should tend toward 1.0. This is Professional Science Speak for too complex to model exactly, but most of the cows ought to stampede in this direction... And you're right; he didn't analyze that many samples. I wish he had more data. He found one ivorite with a F/B ratio of 0.40 (means more boron than fluorine). Most results were 0.8 to 1.2, which indeed is a 'tendency toward 1.0, if you think numbers have tendencies. Actually taking the trouble to think about it, I realize that once you get a purely thermal regime, the slightly lighter boron will actually escape faster than the more pudgy fluorine, which would drive the ratio back the other way, to values higher than 1.0, but by this time you'd be dealing with temperatures so high, there wouldn't be any light elements left (my guess). Back in the days of the MetList's Great Tektite War of '01, the question of airbursts as mega-heating events was bandied about. Proponents of the mega-airburst pointed to Muong Nongs as evidence of melt-in-place. At that point I was emailing off-List with the late Darryl Futrell. He was sending me stuff and we were kicking the issues back and forth. He made one point about Muong Nongs that I pointed out was really significant; I don't think he realized how significant. He had done a lot of microscopic examination of Muong Nongs. One thing he noted that distinguished them from volcanic glasses was the nature of the microscopic voids in the tektite material. In a substance that is melted in place (big heat boils local rock; no flying or maybe just a flop and plop) is that the multitude of tiny voids are convex and isolated from each other. Gases are devolving everywhere from the melt into little bubbles, but the whole mass is cooling and they are trapped alone and still pushing outwards, hence the convexity. But in the Muong Nongs, the voids were concave and highly interconnected. In particular, they were like spiny stars. And they were everywhere, like a sponge's. This proves that the Muong Nongs formed as a rain of tiny microspheres of molten glass that fell to earth; at least, it proves it to me. To visualize it, take an acrylic clear box and fill it with marbles or ball bearings and look at the spaces between the packed spheres. The voids are 3D stars with spiny concave points or rays, all interconnected. Darryl was thinking of this purely in the context of stuff flying around next door to the crater, but I was convinced that it didn't mean that at all. I decided that the conventional view of Muong Nongs as hardly better than impact glasses, as molten splash going plop! somewhere very near the impact site, as only semi-cooked tektite material that didn't quite get transformed completely into true tektites was nothing but simple-minded hooey. Picture instead a rain of fire, immense volumes of micrometer scale droplets condensing out of clouds of rock vapor (that incidentally cover an area of hundreds of miles across) and falling to Earth in such quantities that they accumulate many inches thick in places. (Announcer: Tonight's weather: expect a rain of molten glass vapor with up to a foot of tektites on the ground by morning...) Our term microtektites characterize the ocean sediment layers of degraded glass spherules from big impacts. Muong Nongs are the terrestrial microtektite layers. As a rock, they should be characterized as a microtektite concretion. They are wet and dirty as a macro-scale sample because they were and are contaminated. The small size of the individual droplets contact welded together makes them degradable, getting wet and get dirty just
[meteorite-list] MeteoriteTimes for March is now up
Greetings Everyone, MeteoriteTimes for March is now up. - Thank you to all the writers! Another month of great articles! - Mark's article will be a little late and we'll make another post when it up. - Martin's Meteorite Sign project has really taken off. Now 75 signs in the Gallery. http://www.meteoritetimes.com/ Enjoy! Paul and Jim ** Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange, Inc. http://www.meteorite.com MeteoriteTimes.com http://www.MeteoriteTimes.com Post Office Box 7000-455, Redondo Beach, CA 90277 USA *** __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] LunarRover / Apollo Astronaut -Dho 1180 PV -Ad
Hey all, I must say I got one of the astronauts and slices of Dho 1180 from Robert a while back. It was great that he and his wife Terry decided at the last minute to attend the Tucson show. He was able to deliver the lunar to me in person, so it felt like my show specimen! I'm really pleased with the beautiful slice and the astronaut sculpture was more than I bargained for. It's huge! and it displays the slice well. So thanks again Robert for the fabulous display kit. I find the Lunar Rover very attractive as well :-) I also bought a beautiful PV endpiece from him last July and never regretted that decision. I display it in the open air and it hasn't shown a sign of any problems. I never thought I would own a piece of this beautiful meteorite and it's my favorite purchased meteorite by far... Get it while it lasts. You couldn't do business with a better family! Best meteorite wishes, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ - Original Message - From: Robert Woolard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:09 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] LunarRover / Apollo Astronaut -Dho 1180 PV -Ad Hello List, All of the Apollo Astronaut sculptures that I had have been sent to their new owners, along with their respective DHO 1180 slices. To those of you that were unable to reply before they were gone (including those enjoying the 2006 Tucson show and away from the List when I first made the announcement) I have some news that may be of interest to you. These National Air and Space Museum Collection items were limited number editions and are no longer being made, nor available from the parent company. I was lucky to get the initital kits, and thought they would be the only ones I would be able to obtain. But after the success of the earlier offer, and requests for others, Jerry and I spent a LOT of time checking around, and finally got lucky. We found a couple more astronaut sculptures, AND not only that, we were also very happy to find four Lunar Rover kits that we weren't able to obtain during our earlier offer! As far as we know, these are THE last Astronauts and Rovers that we will have to offer. So, while these items last-- and first come, first served--- you will get a free ASTRONAUT with the purchase of any DHO 1180 slice for $600 or more, and the much harder to obtain ROVER for any slice for $1000 or more ( shipping and insurance not included ). You can see them pictured here on my site: http://www.portalesvalleymeteorites.com/Lunar.htm or http://www.portalesvalleymeteorites.com/ If you do visit our site, you will also see that we do not have very many PV pieces left for sale. These few remaining specimens from the 34Kg main mass include some beautiful choices, so if PV is still on your wish list, now might be the time to make that wish come true! Please email me if you are interested. Sincerely, Robert Woolard __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Michael Blood's Meteorite Market Trends
--Since The Tucson Gem Mineral Show is the most --significant single event yearly influencing the meteorite --market, as usual, I will devote the March article to --reporting on same. I was very disappointed that Michael Bloods always entertaining, and usually informative column gave a report of the Tuscon show without a single word, not even a hint as, to the trend of the meteorite market. Was the show well attended? More or less than past years? Were the auctions well bid? More or less than past years? Were certain meteorite types hot this year? If so which ones? Were some meteorite types over supplied this year with little demand? If so which ones? Has the meteorite market general began to recover from it's depressed state of the last several years? Shouldn't some or all of these developments be discernible by an astute observer at the USA's largest gathering of Meteorite People? Is there any reason why this information should be kept from the rest of us? Is any one else as disappointed as I am? Mike Fowler Chicago ebay-starsandrocks __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA Announces Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Coverage
March 3, 2006 Dwayne Brown/Merrilee Fellows Headquarters, Washington (202) 358-1726/ (818) 393-0754 Guy Webster Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. (818) 354-6278 MEDIA ADVISORY: 06-037 NASA ANNOUNCES MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER COVERAGE NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter begins the most critical minutes of its flight on March 10. NASA is providing mission briefings and commentary March 8 and 10. Live coverage of the arrival at Mars originates from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., on NASA TV and the Web. The JPL newsroom will be open from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. EST, March 10. The main number for the newsroom is: (818) 354-5011. Live arrival and orbit insertion commentary airs on NASA TV and the Web on March 10 beginning at 3:30 p.m. EST. The orbiter's main engines begin firing shortly after 4:24 p.m. EST to slow it enough for Martian gravity to grab it into orbit. Commentary ends at approximately 5:45 p.m. EST. To cover news briefings and mission events at JPL, reporters must contact Media Relations at: (818) 354-5011 not later than 6 p.m. EST, March 7. Valid I.D. and press credentials must be shown on arrival. Non U.S. citizens must present passport and visa. News briefings from JPL will be carried on the Web and NASA TV (all times EST and subject to change): Wednesday, March 8: -- 1 p.m. EST, mission overview news briefing Friday, March 10: -- Noon EST, pre-arrival news briefing -- 7:30 p.m. EST, post-arrival news briefing Mission information, including a press kit, news releases, status reports, briefing schedule, videos and images, is available on the Web at: http://www.nasa.gov/mro For information about NASA and agency programs on the Web, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/home NASA TV is carried on the Web and on an MPEG-2 digital signal accessed via satellite AMC-6, at 72 degrees west longitude, transponder 17C, 4040 MHz, vertical polarization. It's available in Alaska and Hawaii on AMC-7 at 137 degrees west longitude, transponder 18C, at 4060 MHz, horizontal polarization. The schedule for mission coverage is on the Web at: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Breaking.html JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, manages the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter for NASA's Science Mission Directorate. -end- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hunting hours vs recovery rate
Sonny list, My stats are not going to be what people want to hear. I have been collecting rocks, fossils, and artifacts since I could walk. I have been a continuously active exploration geologist for 35 years. I have been looking at the ground in front of me with something of a trained eye for something like 50 years. Unusual rocks came home with me without fail. When I joined Homestake Mining Company about 25 years ago, they had to pay to move something like 10 tons of rock. When I sheepishly apologized to my new boss, he said I guess if we hire a geologist who doesn't like rocks, we made a poor choice! This is the long way of saying: none of those were meteorites. When I became interested in the current subject, I spent (as for most of my life) on the order of 150 days in the field per year in my normal work routine. Always looking, but with very limited knowledge (none the less, a well trained eye for the unusual). Nothing. No memories at all of something I wish I could go back and view again. As the obsession grew, I gradually acquired a small collection of meteorites via purchase specifically to train my eye. I started looking where there were few or no rocks (thanks to Nininger's Find a Falling Star that had been given to me). I can't guess how long it took after that--- I'd say weeks of quality time before the big moment for #1 (described on our website and IMCA). Speaking only of dedicated meteorite-search time, I spent another three or four man-days in Nevada, then say 5 man-days in virgin country in the high Andes in Chile, then another 3 days in Nevada before my next tiny find at Majuba (also on the website). Learning from experience, my next effort was where meteorites had been found before, and I found 21 fragments in 2 days. The next page will be written soon, but I suspect no armchair quarterback has any idea what kind of patience and perserverance it takes to beat the odds on one of the longest shot endeavors on earth! I serve as living proof that you can go nuts before it happens. Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com (where you can read the longer versions of #s 1 2) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Have you ever wondered how many hours you must spend before your first cold find ? Or how many hours after you find a new area with a new meteorite before your next find? I would like to say that you will find a meteorite every 40- 50 hours of searching for cold finds not counting driving or prep time. The only problem is once you find one you will spend 4-5 days or longer searching the area looking for the rest of the meteorite or the continuation of the strewn field. In my own experience in a know strewnfield ( Gold Basin) I spent 16 hours of hunting plus 6 hours driving time for my first meteorite. I might have recovered one faster if it was not for the 10 pounds of meterwrongs I was carrying in my pockets before I found one. On some of the new areas I have spent as little as 4 hours before a new find in a new location. I have also spent weeks before a new find at 8 to 10 hour days. In a strewnfield that I have been working there are times were you may not find one for a week and then find one or two. In one area a friend I spent 3 days hunting before the frist find. We spent 2 more days looking for the next find paired to the first find. We have done 3 more trips to the location for a few more pieces. Average hunting day 8 hours plus 4-8 hours driving time to get to location one way. I would like to say the average time to find a meteorite in a known is location 2-20 hours. For a new cold find from a area with no finds may take 50 plus hours of hunting not counting driving or prep time. I am interested in hearing input from other hunters especially from the Southwest. I have been asked by some new meteorite hunters what they can expect before they find their first meteorite. Thanks, Sonny __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Comet Dust Holds Building Blocks of Life (Stardust)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2070393,00.html Comet dust holds building blocks of life Jonathan Leake The Sunday Times (United Kingdom) March 5, 2006 SCIENTISTS examining the first dust samples collected from a comet have found complex carbon molecules, supporting the theory that the ingredients for life on Earth originated in space. The organic material was found in early studies of samples from the comet Wild 2 brought back to Earth by the Stardust space probe seven weeks ago. Stardust collected hundreds of grains of dust as it flew through the tail of the comet two years earlier. Analysis suggests a high concentration of complex molecules of the kind thought necessary for the evolution of life. About 10% of this comet is made of organic materials. We don't know exactly what they all are but it is very exciting, said Don Brownlee, professor of astronomy at the University of Washington, who is Nasa's principal investigator for the Stardust project. Stardust was launched by Nasa in February 1999 and flew twice around the sun as it matched its speed to the comet's. Then, in January 2004, somewhere between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter, it slipped into the comet's tail of dust and exotic gases, passing within 147 miles of Wild 2's nucleus. Stardust swept up particles in a collector shaped like a tennis racket and packed with an absorbent material called aerogel, then spent two years lining itself up in an orbit that would return it to Earth. On January 15 it dropped a canister containing the precious comet dust, which landed by parachute. Nasa's Johnson space centre carved the aerogel into thin slices, each containing particles, and sent them out to researchers around the world. Next week they will share their findings at the Lunar and Planetary Science conference in Houston, Texas. The samples will be a treasure trove of organic material, possibly including amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. What we want to know is how organic molecules actually form in comets and whether they helped deliver organic material to the Earth before life began, said Brownlee. The idea that comets delivered the basic components needed for life has growing support among astronomers. The theory is that the sun and planets began to form from a vast disc of interstellar dust, gases and debris about five billion years ago. The sun would have formed first. Its radiation and gravity would then have had a powerful influence on the rest of the solar system, driving lighter molecules of compounds such as water, sulphur dioxide and carbon dioxide out from the inner solar system. The process would also have produced billions of comets and meteorites. Earth was formed 4.6 billion years ago and, as it cooled, these bodies, some of them huge, bombarded it, bringing organic matter and water. The first stirrings of life appeared 3.5 billion years ago. Earth's atmosphere is still showered in dust, meteorites and other debris every day. This carries water and organic material including amino acids. But scientists are not sure whether this modern material has the same composition as the comets and meteorites that hit the young Earth. Phil Bland, a Royal Society research fellow at Imperial College, London, who is working on the Stardust samples, said that comets - deep frozen for billions of years - were like time capsules. We can compare what's in them with what we see now, to work out the processes that have shaped our planet and all the others, he said. Monica Grady, professor of planetary and space science at the Open University, is a member of one of the teams examining the Stardust samples. Organic material delivered by comets and meteorites between those dates [4.6 billion to 3.5 billion years ago] is likely to have played a part in starting life on Earth, she said. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Probe Built to Visit Asteroids Killed in Budget Snarl (Dawn)
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0603/03dawn/ Probe built to visit asteroids killed in budget snarl BY STEPHEN CLARK SPACEFLIGHT NOW March 3, 2006 A robotic mission to study two of the solar system's largest asteroids has been killed by NASA after months of uncertainty while extensive reviews probed the mission's funding and technical credentials. The cancellation of Dawn comes amid other proposed cuts in the agency's science budget in an effort to fulfill the Vision for Space Exploration, which calls for completing the assembly of the space station, retiring the space shuttle fleet, and developing the next-generation Crew Exploration Vehicle. However, Dawn's cancellation is a rarity. Most missions under consideration for termination or deferment are relatively early in the development and design phases, but Dawn's spacecraft is currently sitting at a contractor facility at Orbital Sciences where it was undergoing final assembly last year. Missions such as Triana - a politically charged Earth observation satellite - have also found their way onto the chopping block as construction neared completion. In 1998, a NASA remote sensing satellite named Clark also fell victim to budget concerns and launch delays. NASA has tried in the past to re-use parts and instruments from abandoned spacecraft on other missions. The future of the Dawn hardware is currently unclear. Managers of the Dawn mission were first warned of trouble last October, when NASA officials ordered a halt to operations as final testing was getting underway before shipment of the craft to its Florida launch site in advance of a then-planned June 2006 blastoff. NASA simultaneously launched a thorough review of the cost overruns and technical problems facing the mission. At that point, workers were bolting on the last boxes and testing the assembled spacecraft. After the stand down, the vehicle was safed and attention was focused on paperwork items and answering questions from the independent assessment team, Dawn Principal Investigator Christopher Russell told Spaceflight Now. My first reaction to the news of the stand down was shock and a feeling that there must have been a better way to accomplish the confidence building that NASA obviously needed, Russell said. It is emotionally very hard to stop a race when you see the finish line in sight. And it is very hard on those people who were laid off when the stand down took place. A stand down is a very big hammer. It is not for finishing nails. Dawn was to have been the ninth mission of the Discovery program, which attempts to fly a higher number of missions that are lower in cost and smaller in scope than earlier NASA programs. It was selected for implementation in 2001. Plans originally called for Dawn to rocket into space aboard a Delta 2 booster as early as this June to begin its circuitous trek through the solar system that would have included a fly-by of Mars in February 2009. Dawn would have then arrived at asteroid Vesta in late 2011, where a stay of at least six months was anticipated. After departing Vesta, Dawn's ion engines would have navigated the probe toward asteroid Ceres, where it would have entered orbit in August 2015 and stayed until the end of the mission. The stand down initially made the June launch impossible, and postponements to November 2006 and early 2007 followed. Officials say Dawn had until October 2007 to launch and still reach Mars for a critical gravity assist maneuver. Dawn's science payload consisted of a framing camera provided by German scientists at the Max Planck Institute and the German Aerospace Center, DLR. The Italian Space Agency was responsible for the visible and infrared mapping spectrometer. The Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico built a gamma ray and neutron detector. The two asteroids targeted by Dawn are believed to have remained intact since their formation in the very early stages of the solar system. Scientists expected to learn the chemical composition of both asteroids, search for water-bearing minerals and a metallic core, and determine their precise mass, shape, volume, rotation rate, and gravity. The Discovery program had capped the costs of Dawn at $371 million, but project officials saw the first indication of going over-budget in early 2005, according to Russell. A new cost analysis system alerted management of a potential $7 million deficit. We then did a grass roots estimate of what it would take to launch successfully, Russell said in January. So everyone on the project was asked to look carefully at the work to go and provide their best estimate of the cost. This number was higher, $17 million, as one might expect when (giving) people a chance to re-estimate. Then we called in a committee of experts who just took a top level look at the costs and schedule and recommended that we add more cost and schedule reserve and fund it. This number was $40 million. It was a worst-case number but it was the
[meteorite-list] Red Rain From Comets?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/space/article/0,,1723936,00.html Red rain could prove that aliens have landed Amelia Gentleman and Robin McKie The Observer (United Kingdom) March 5, 2006 There is a small bottle containing a red fluid on a shelf in Sheffield University's microbiology laboratory. The liquid looks cloudy and uninteresting. Yet, if one group of scientists is correct, the phial contains the first samples of extraterrestrial life isolated by researchers. Inside the bottle are samples left over from one of the strangest incidents in recent meteorological history. On 25 July, 2001, blood-red rain fell over the Kerala district of western India. And these rain bursts continued for the next two months. All along the coast it rained crimson, turning local people's clothes pink, burning leaves on trees and falling as scarlet sheets at some points. Investigations suggested the rain was red because winds had swept up dust from Arabia and dumped it on Kerala. But Godfrey Louis, a physicist at Mahatma Gandhi University in Kottayam, after gathering samples left over from the rains, concluded this was nonsense. 'If you look at these particles under a microscope, you can see they are not dust, they have a clear biological appearance.' Instead Louis decided that the rain was made up of bacteria-like material that had been swept to Earth from a passing comet. In short, it rained aliens over India during the summer of 2001. Not everyone is convinced by the idea, of course. Indeed most researchers think it is highly dubious. One scientist who posted a message on Louis's website described it as 'bullshit'. But a few researchers believe Louis may be on to something and are following up his work. Milton Wainwright, a microbiologist at Sheffield, is now testing samples of Kerala's red rain. 'It is too early to say what's in the phial,' he said. 'But it is certainly not dust. Nor is there any DNA there, but then alien bacteria would not necessarily contain DNA.' Critical to Louis's theory is the length of time the red rain fell on Kerala. Two months is too long for it to have been wind-borne dust, he says. In addition, one analysis showed the particles were 50 per cent carbon, 45 per cent oxygen with traces of sodium and iron: consistent with biological material. Louis also discovered that, hours before the first red rain fell, there was a loud sonic boom that shook houses in Kerala. Only an incoming meteorite could have triggered such a blast, he claims. This had broken from a passing comet and shot towards the coast, shedding microbes as it travelled. These then mixed with clouds and fell with the rain. Many scientists accept that comets may be rich in organic chemicals and a few, such as the late Fred Hoyle, the UK theorist, argued that life on Earth evolved from microbes that had been brought here on comets. But most researchers say that Louis is making too great a leap in connecting his rain with microbes from a comet. For his part, Louis is unrepentant. 'If anybody hears a theory like this, that it is from a comet, they dismiss it as an unbelievable kind of conclusion. Unless people understand our arguments - people will just rule it out as an impossible thing, that extra-terrestrial biology is responsible for this red rain.' __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Website/Catalog update
Thank you Jim-Paul for the new MeteoriteTimes issue. Not to be out done I updated the Falls-Calendar on my website, Did you know that Gao is 46 years Earth-years old today? And Bruderheim turned 46 yesterday, only one day older. While I was at it I also updated the Catalog, and removed all the Sold pieces but you still have well over 500 pieces to choose from: _www.IMPACTIKA.com/Catalog.htm_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com/Catalog.htm) _www.IMPACTIKA.com/Catalog.xls_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com/Catalog.xls) And I finally put together one complete list of all the thin-sections available, for all of you Thin-Sections collectors (Bernd?). _www.IMPACTIKA.com/TSlist.htm_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com/TSlist.htm) _www.IMPACTIKA.com/TSlist.xls_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com/TSlist.xls) As usual, do let me know if you have any questions. Enjoy!! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Hunting hours vs. recovery rate
Hi Sonny and List, Have you ever wondered how many hours you must spend before your first cold find ? Or how many hours after you find a new area with a new meteorite before your next find? Great subject! When I first started cold meteorite hunting in September 1999, there was very little information available as to how long one could expect to search before finding a meteorite. The first hard number I remember reading was an estimate by Ron Hartman of (I believe) ~100 hours. I decided that was acceptable, and thought it would be worthwhile to keep a detailed log of my hours for statistical purposes. Well, 10 desert trips and nearly 40 hours of active searching later, I finally made a cold find in May 2000. I felt I had perhaps beaten the odds, and that it might take me 160 hours or more to find my second meteorite! But no, the second and third meteorites came (different location) after only an additional 30 hours. As the hours continued to rack up, the average time between finds steadily decreased. In retrospect, I can say that there is a huge learning curve with meteorite hunting, and that your first 15 hours of hunting are extremely unlikely to produce a find unless you are already a rockhound and know a terrestrial rock when you see one. Knowing what a meteorite looks like is not as much help as you might think -- weathered meteorites, at least initially, do not stand out in a desert environment as much as you might think. Here are some stats extracted from the Excel spreadsheed I've maintained for the last 6 1/2 years: Time to first find: 39.5 hours First 5 finds: 75.5 hours First 10 finds:128.8 hours First 20 finds:220.3 hours First 50 finds:340.8 hours First 100 finds: 482.7 hours I should point out that many of these finds are paired to one another and were found close together, so the statistics are a bit misleading (overly optimistic). My first 100 finds represent perhaps 45 different meteorites. If I consider my first 5 finds to be part of the learning curve, that means ~40 unpaired finds in 407 hours, or about one every 10 hours. How long this recovery rate can be maintained, I don't know, but I see no evidence of diminishing returns ... yet. These days I would prefer to make new finds at new locations; however, it's nice to know that if I get discouraged by a run of unproductive trips, there are still places I can choose to go and be nearly guaranteed to make a find on a 2-day trip. Cheers, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
