Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi, My apologies to all the Scots on the List! Pleaze, willya poot doon thos claymores 'n leave a man ta speak? This just in: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article1219495.ece The IAU proposal for 12 planets is as follows: 1. Ceres 'cause it's big and round and orbits the Sun, 2. 2003UB313 (Xena) 'cause it's big and round and orbits the Sun, 3. Charon, Pluto's Moon, 'cause it's big and round and orbits the Sun and constitutes along with Pluto a DOUBLE PLANET system! All other planetary bodies have to apply for membership and present credentials, at some future date. Still think the vote's a toss-up. I predict the IAU will get some really nasty letters from the Luna City Chamber of Commerce, demanding the the Earth-Moon System be recognized as a DOUBLE PLANET, since it meets all the criteria applied to Pluto-Charon System. Those guys up there are, well, Loonie... Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 Hi, Ron and List Just WHAT are those Scotsmen drinking?!! The other plutons are Charon, currently described as a moon of Pluto... Please tell me the IAU is not going to name a satellite as a planet!! Chaos! Confusion! Heresy! It's just a shame that the bottle got to The Scotsman before the news did... I hope. Spoze he meant CHIRON? Sterling --- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi, Yes, Ceres is a planet again... if a vote of the whole is in favor! I predict a cantankerous electorate on August 24th! Ceres was a planet officially from 1804 to 1864, In 1855, the Big Four were retained as planets but all the others were demoted to minor planets. In the US, Ceres continued to be mentioned as a planet up into the 1870's. All planets have official planet symbols, you know. We've all seen them; they're on jewelry even. Is there a market for a new symbol for the new planets (if they vote'em into the club)? Well, Ceres, Vesta, Pallas, and Juno already have symbols from back when they were planets the other time. Good old Naval Observatory has 'em: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/hilton/AsteroidHistory/minorplanets.html But Xena and the other qualifying crutons, er, plutons don't. Probably have to wait until they have names... Ceres and the rest of the Big Four, even in 1864, were thought to be much larger than they really are. At the time... the most widely disseminated values for the diameters of the first four asteroids discovered were Ceres, 2613 km (really 975x909); Pallas, 3380 km (really 570x525x500); Juno, 2290 km (really 290x240x190); and Vesta (really 578x560x458), not more than 383 km. Well, they were close on Vesta... You'll notice that only Ceres is really ROUND enough... Ceres density 2.08. Pluto density 2.03. Both densities are most easily modeled by a 50-50 mixture of ice 1.0 and rock 3.0, or some quibbly variation thereof. However, Ceres is darker (albedo 0.113 versus 0.50). There are signs Ceres has a transient atmosphere like Pluto. Ceres appears to have complex organic chemistry, so it may be the solar system's largest carbonaceous chondrite! http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/dawn/newsletter/html/20030822/ceres_evolution.html The DAWN mission will get to Vesta October 2011 and reach Ceres February 2015. Both Vesta and Ceres will be full-surface mapped. DAWN will carry two LDR LEON2 chip framing cameras as described below: http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog?sc=DAWNex=1 The resolution on the low-orbit passes will be a sharp 5 meters per pixel, roughly comparable to the Mars HiRISE camera. It'll be stupendous. I really hope I live until 2015. Brian Marsden, in the article below: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050802_planet_definition.html is quoted as saying if the Allan Stern definition of a planet were used (everything spherical that goes 'round its star and doesn't fusion inside), we'd have 24 planets. Marsden wasn't in favor of the Stern definition, and it appears that the Stern definition is pretty much what the IAU Committee submitted for a vote. But, the way they're putting it forward is that Pluto stays, Ceres gets planet status (again), 2003UB313 is a planet and Brown gets to apply for a planet name. Now, there's a moment in an astronomer's life! I think Marsden was exaggerating (he's in charge of non-planets and the shepperd could lose some sheep) when he said 24. Stern says 20... Let's start counting. Ceres is Planet 5. Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune all get their numbers bumped up one. Pluto, the nineth planet (might be) is now Planet X (for Ten) and Charon is Planet 11. If we add 2003UB313 (Xena), 2003FY9, 2003EL61, Sedna, and Quaoar we have 16 planets. Now, can everybody spell Q U A O A R ? Can ANYBODY say it? Whoops! We have to add 90482 Orcus; it's bigger than Quaoar. That makes 17 planets. There are five more KBO's for which a case could be made, except that circularity might be a problem; they're smaller and could be irregular. That would be 22 planets. Or 24. Or 20. Schoolchildren are going hate us! 17 planets to memorize (Do I gotta?!) AND learn how to spell QUAOAR? Somebody is sure to get offensive about 2003EL61 just because it isn't round. I think we need an exception for dynamic distortion. Yeah, true 2003EL61 is about 1960 x 1520 x 1000 km. Not very round. OK, it had this really rough childhood, see... But its density is almost as great as the Earth's Moon! This is no iceball! It's solid rock. It rotates in 4 hours; it's dynamically distorted, So is Jupiter and all other rotating bodies. Even I have a mild equatorial bulge and I'm not spinning at all. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:04:18 -0500, you wrote: Spoze he meant CHIRON? Naming a drug company as a planet would be even more of a problem. What would be next, planet Eily Lilly? On a more serious note, the article mentions Ceres. I'm not clear on this, were they saying that Ceres would be given planet status? Surely it wouldn't be lumped in as a cruton... I mean Pluton?
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi, All, A much more detailed piece about the IAU recommendation in The Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2006/08/16/nine_no_longer_panel_declares_12_planets/ It contains an interview with Michael Brown which is quite interesting. You'd think he'd be all for it, because of 2003UB313, but instead he says he doesn't favor it: There are 53 objects that meet the panel's criteria and probably many more to be discovered, according to Michael Brown, an astronomer at the California Institute of Technology who discovered 2003 UB313. The total number of planets, Brown said, could easily climb above 100. A new panel of the astronomical union will be charged with designating planets, and it will be its job to determine if astronomers have proven that a particular body is sufficiently round to qualify. A number of scientists said in interviews that they expected the new definition would be accepted, but others, including Brown, opposed the idea. Calling it 'a big mess,' Brown said he didn't like the complexity of the system, or the idea of a panel determining what new planets are. Another Committee... A check on the figures shows that the diameter of Charon is just slightly great than 50% of the diameter of Pluto, so perhaps that's the guideline for defining a double planet... Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=1194292006 'Plutons' push planet total up to 12 JOHN VON RADOWITZ The Scotsman August 15, 2006 A NEW kind of planet, the pluton, could soon be taking its place in the Solar System. Astronomers have agreed on a draft proposal for redefining what constitutes a planet. If approved at a meeting underway in the Czech capital, Prague, school science text books will have to be re-written. The new definition would mean there are 12, not nine planets, and more could be added to the list in the future. They include eight classic planets - Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune - Ceres, currently considered an asteroid, and three plutons, one of which is Pluto. The other plutons are Charon, currently described as a moon of Pluto, and the newly-discovered object 2003 UB313, which has not been named officially, but is nicknamed Xena. Ceres is the largest object in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, and like a planet is spherical in shape. A resolution to accept the new planet definition will be voted on by members of the International Astronomical Union (IAU) next Thursday, 24 August. If passed, the days of simply learning the names of the nine planets will be over for the world's schoolchildren. In future, many more planets could join the Sun's family as other plutons are discovered. A dozen candidate planets are already on the IAUs watchlist. They include Varuna, Quaor and Sedna, all Pluto-like objects residing within a region on the fringe of the Solar System known as the Kuiper Belt. Plutons differ from classical planets in that they have orbits round the Sun that take longer than 200 years to complete, and their orbits are highly-tilted and non-circular. All these characteristics suggest that they have an origin different from that of classical planets. The IAU has taken two years working out the differences between planets and smaller Solar System bodies such as comets and asteroids. IAU president Professor Ron Ekers said: Modern science provides much more knowledge than the simple fact that objects orbiting the Sun appear to move with respect to the background of fixed stars. For example, recent new discoveries have been made of objects in the outer regions of our Solar System that have sizes comparable to and larger than Pluto. These discoveries have rightfully called into question whether or not they should be considered as new 'planets'. According to the new draft definition, two conditions must be satisfied for an object to be called a planet. First, the object must be in orbit around a star, while not itself being a star. Second, and most importantly, it must be massive enough for its own gravity to pull it into a nearly spherical shape. The IAU, responsible for the naming of planets and moons since 1919, set up a Planet Definition Committee (PDC) to consider the problem. Committee member Professor Richard Binzel said: Our goal was to find a scientific basis for a new definition of planet, and we chose gravity as the determining factor. Nature decides whether or not an object is a planet. Mnemonic needed IF ASTRONOMERS decide to change the number of planets in our solar system then piles of science textbooks will have to be rewritten. Generations of children have learned the names of
[meteorite-list] Dar al Gani
Hello Axel and List, interest ... meteorites ... Dar Ghani meteorite field ... some information about this Dar Ghani meteorite field? The most comprehensive study of the Dar al Gani meteorite field and the meteorites that have been recovered there is, to the best of my knowledge, an article in MAPS (Meteoritics and Planetary Science): SCHLÜTER J. et al. (2002) The Dar al Gani meteorite field (Libyan Sahara): Geological setting, pairing of meteorites, and recovery density (MAPS 37-8, 2002, pp. 1079-1093). Best regards, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WANTED: A decent Nantan piece
Hi list Does anyone have a decent sized Nantan piece for sale. I'm looking for something at least 2 inches long by ?. I would like one that is cleaned, but willing to take one crusted. I have a separate display case for my classic irons (not really crazy about irons anyway) but my stock of Nantan pieces are either very small ones or the bigger ones are oxidized. I'm not looking for a best of show or anything, just something to fill my Nantan space in my display. Most of what I see on Ebay is either very small, overpriced or junk (sometimes all three). A picture would be nice. Please contact me off list. Walter L. Newton 1400 Utah Street #101 Golden, Co 80401 Home 303-279-3046 Cell 303-906-9653 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi Sterling: Have not read all of your emails. The Scotsman released the news early, shame on them. The press found out yesterday at 8:00 am Prauge time and that is 11:00 pm Monday night in California. We (Planetary Sciences Committee) found out Tuesday morning since as the largest group of planetary scientists, we would probably be getting the calls to give our opinion and we needed, as an organization) a response. We as individuals may not agree with it and may speak it (like apparently Brown is doing even though he was on the IAU committee). However, I will respond to your last comment and what clear is pushing your button (at least this time). We had a report from on of the committee and the decision all has to do with physics. If gravity controls your shape, you may be considered a planet. I have no idea where Brown came up with 50 on their list. This is not official. The Question and Answer release has nine additional TNOs and 3 asteroids as potentially large enough to be in hydrostatic equilibrium (but we do not have enough information at the present time). Vesta is in this group. Picking a size is arbitrary and the committee did not want to do this (say just the size of Mercury or larger or just the size of Pluto or larger). With respect to Pluto and Charon. They both meet the planet criterion (so do a number of planetary satellites including our Moon). However, the center of mass is outside either body (their barycenter). The committee used the same cirterion as is used to define a binary star system. So, we have a binary planetary system! The system may be a bit complicated (do not think so), but it is not arbitary and relies on the physical nature of the object. Why would you just say 2000 km (or 2000 miles or 2000 leagues or 2000 stadia; pick a unit) Larry PS I will go back through your other comments and try to respond to them. While not on the committee, I heard one of the committee explain the reasoning and we spent some time in discussing the reasoning. Quoting Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, All, A much more detailed piece about the IAU recommendation in The Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2006/08/16/nine_no_longer_panel_dec lares_12_planets/ It contains an interview with Michael Brown which is quite interesting. You'd think he'd be all for it, because of 2003UB313, but instead he says he doesn't favor it: There are 53 objects that meet the panel's criteria and probably many more to be discovered, according to Michael Brown, an astronomer at the California Institute of Technology who discovered 2003 UB313. The total number of planets, Brown said, could easily climb above 100. A new panel of the astronomical union will be charged with designating planets, and it will be its job to determine if astronomers have proven that a particular body is sufficiently round to qualify. A number of scientists said in interviews that they expected the new definition would be accepted, but others, including Brown, opposed the idea. Calling it 'a big mess,' Brown said he didn't like the complexity of the system, or the idea of a panel determining what new planets are. Another Committee... A check on the figures shows that the diameter of Charon is just slightly great than 50% of the diameter of Pluto, so perhaps that's the guideline for defining a double planet... Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=1194292006 'Plutons' push planet total up to 12 JOHN VON RADOWITZ The Scotsman August 15, 2006 A NEW kind of planet, the pluton, could soon be taking its place in the Solar System. Astronomers have agreed on a draft proposal for redefining what constitutes a planet. If approved at a meeting underway in the Czech capital, Prague, school science text books will have to be re-written. The new definition would mean there are 12, not nine planets, and more could be added to the list in the future. They include eight classic planets - Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune - Ceres, currently considered an asteroid, and three plutons, one of which is Pluto. The other plutons are Charon, currently described as a moon of Pluto, and the newly-discovered object 2003 UB313, which has not been named officially, but is nicknamed Xena. Ceres is the largest object in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, and like a planet is spherical in shape. A resolution to accept the new planet definition will be voted on by members of the International Astronomical Union (IAU)
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi Sterling: Yes, Sterling, Ceres is a planet (if this passes the General Assembly). With respect to Ceres being a carbonaceous chondrite this comparison has been made since the early 80s. Google my name and Ceres and there are many hits for water on Ceres. Larry Quoting Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Yes, Ceres is a planet again... if a vote of the whole is in favor! I predict a cantankerous electorate on August 24th! Ceres was a planet officially from 1804 to 1864, In 1855, the Big Four were retained as planets but all the others were demoted to minor planets. In the US, Ceres continued to be mentioned as a planet up into the 1870's. All planets have official planet symbols, you know. We've all seen them; they're on jewelry even. Is there a market for a new symbol for the new planets (if they vote'em into the club)? Well, Ceres, Vesta, Pallas, and Juno already have symbols from back when they were planets the other time. Good old Naval Observatory has 'em: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/hilton/AsteroidHistory/minorplanets.html But Xena and the other qualifying crutons, er, plutons don't. Probably have to wait until they have names... Ceres and the rest of the Big Four, even in 1864, were thought to be much larger than they really are. At the time... the most widely disseminated values for the diameters of the first four asteroids discovered were Ceres, 2613 km (really 975x909); Pallas, 3380 km (really 570x525x500); Juno, 2290 km (really 290x240x190); and Vesta (really 578x560x458), not more than 383 km. Well, they were close on Vesta... You'll notice that only Ceres is really ROUND enough... Ceres density 2.08. Pluto density 2.03. Both densities are most easily modeled by a 50-50 mixture of ice 1.0 and rock 3.0, or some quibbly variation thereof. However, Ceres is darker (albedo 0.113 versus 0.50). There are signs Ceres has a transient atmosphere like Pluto. Ceres appears to have complex organic chemistry, so it may be the solar system's largest carbonaceous chondrite! http://www- ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/dawn/newsletter/html/20030822/ceres_evolution.html The DAWN mission will get to Vesta October 2011 and reach Ceres February 2015. Both Vesta and Ceres will be full-surface mapped. DAWN will carry two LDR LEON2 chip framing cameras as described below: http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog?sc=DAWNex=1 The resolution on the low-orbit passes will be a sharp 5 meters per pixel, roughly comparable to the Mars HiRISE camera. It'll be stupendous. I really hope I live until 2015. Brian Marsden, in the article below: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050802_planet_definition.html is quoted as saying if the Allan Stern definition of a planet were used (everything spherical that goes 'round its star and doesn't fusion inside), we'd have 24 planets. Marsden wasn't in favor of the Stern definition, and it appears that the Stern definition is pretty much what the IAU Committee submitted for a vote. But, the way they're putting it forward is that Pluto stays, Ceres gets planet status (again), 2003UB313 is a planet and Brown gets to apply for a planet name. Now, there's a moment in an astronomer's life! I think Marsden was exaggerating (he's in charge of non-planets and the shepperd could lose some sheep) when he said 24. Stern says 20... Let's start counting. Ceres is Planet 5. Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune all get their numbers bumped up one. Pluto, the nineth planet (might be) is now Planet X (for Ten) and Charon is Planet 11. If we add 2003UB313 (Xena), 2003FY9, 2003EL61, Sedna, and Quaoar we have 16 planets. Now, can everybody spell Q U A O A R ? Can ANYBODY say it? Whoops! We have to add 90482 Orcus; it's bigger than Quaoar. That makes 17 planets. There are five more KBO's for which a case could be made, except that circularity might be a problem; they're smaller and could be irregular. That would be 22 planets. Or 24. Or 20. Schoolchildren are going hate us! 17 planets to memorize (Do I gotta?!) AND learn how to spell QUAOAR? Somebody is sure to get offensive about 2003EL61 just because it isn't round. I think we need an exception for dynamic distortion. Yeah, true 2003EL61 is about 1960 x 1520 x 1000 km. Not very round. OK, it had this really rough childhood, see... But its density is almost as great as the Earth's Moon! This is no iceball! It's solid rock. It rotates in 4 hours; it's dynamically distorted, So is Jupiter and all other rotating bodies. Even I have a mild equatorial bulge and I'm not spinning at all. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi Daren: I am reading these backwards, so have waded through Sterling's comments. Again, I was not on the committee, but have been (because of the Division for Planetary Sciences Committee) briefed by Rick Binzel who was on the committee and who we questioned. Plutons: a class of planets. The committee used a star analogue like T-Tauri stars or Cepheid variables. So Plutons are PLANETS with orbital periods greater than 200 years. So, Pluto is a planet, it is a pluton, it is a KBO, and it is a TNO! Ceres, as far as I can tell (do not know this for sure) will just be a planet. Since terrestrial and jovian (or gas giant) are not recognized by the IAU (see their QA), it is not a terrestrial planet (at least officially). So, there are the classical planets (not an offical term) and the plutons (an official term). Poor Ceres is in neither. IAU does use the term dwarf planet, but that will not be an official term. Also minor planet goes away. Asteroids and comets are now small Solar System bodies. This just removes the word planet from anything that is not a planet. Sounds good to me. Larry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] didactic page about chondrites
Dear List members, I have made a new web page on meteoriteshow website, trying to give more information about the study of chondrites. It took me some time in order to do it but I hope that it is now ready and you can already see it at: http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/Tnz057-MEB/MEB-page_1-cadres.htm As I am not a scientist, I have got some help from Bertrand Devouard who already made provided some corrections but as he is very busy, some mistakes could still exist on this page. Should any of you see anything wrong, thanks a lot in advance to let me know, so that I can correct them as fast as I can (also vey busy at the moment...). Anyway thanks for watching and I hope that it can be interesting to some of you. The target is to try and offer explanations as clear and simple as possible, to meteorites' fans who, like me, do not have basically much scientific knowledge about meteorites and mineralogy. Any comments will be much appreciated! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Define shock value
Hi list When you see the shock number with a meteorite (ex: s3, s4 etc.), is this referring to the amount of shock that the meteorite went through when it hit the earth, or when it broke apart or impacts (or multiple impacts) experienced in space. Or is it a number that refers to the overall shocking that occurred through any source. Walter L. Newton Golden, Co __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Loonie indeed. It doesn't matter how they vote, the IAU simply doesn't have the authority to define planet (they aren't the Académie française, after all g). IMO they are fools for attempting to do so, as there is no need for a technical definition. The ordinary users of English (and other languages) have long since decided what the planets are- and that they don't include Ceres (with its own history), nor Charon, nor any big iceballs floating around in peculiar orbits far, far beyond Pluto. At most, this will cause a few authors of technical papers to adjust their jargon- and I'm not even sure of that. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:58 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 The IAU proposal for 12 planets is as follows: 1. Ceres 'cause it's big and round and orbits the Sun, 2. 2003UB313 (Xena) 'cause it's big and round and orbits the Sun, 3. Charon, Pluto's Moon, 'cause it's big and round and orbits the Sun and constitutes along with Pluto a DOUBLE PLANET system! All other planetary bodies have to apply for membership and present credentials, at some future date. Still think the vote's a toss-up. I predict the IAU will get some really nasty letters from the Luna City Chamber of Commerce, demanding the the Earth-Moon System be recognized as a DOUBLE PLANET, since it meets all the criteria applied to Pluto-Charon System. Those guys up there are, well, Loonie... __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pluto's Fate to be Decided by 'Scientific andSimp
Hi all - Combining two threads, What if there turn out to be massive numbers of objects fitting the new definition? Why doesn't the naming committee just issue a statemtent demanding a deep space observatory probe before they consider changing the definition of planet? I suppose if they isued a statement like that it would end the fun of coming up with new planet names and memonics. I am going to shut up now. good hunting, Ed --- Larry Lebofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ed: I have to go back and look at the article, but massive I think means like a gas giant, not Earth-sized, but I could be wrong. If there were an Eath at 60 or 70 AU, I am not sure it would have a lot of influence on Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto. Larry Quoting E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Larry, all - Yeah, there could be massive bodies out there, but there aren't. That's what Myles' study shows. What's sending the comets our way are our solar system's passings through the plane of our galaxy, the Milky Way. That's exactly what is shown in the extinction record, and it confirms the gravitational model work done by both British and Italian teams. When will NASA get over the not invented here syndrome and stop wasting our money looking for Nemesis? Why don't we spend it on sending some probes out to the Kuiper belt and Oort cloud, where it might do some good? Anybody here care to blue sky some designs? good hunting, Ed --- Larry Lebofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all: Depending on albedo, there could easily be Earth-sized bodies beyond the Kuiper Belt (do not remember the exact numbers off the top of my head but could find out). As far as perturbations are concerned, we are likely to be getting comets from the Oort cloud (that is how it was predicted) and these could knocked out of the cloud by passing stars the cloud goes out to nearly 1/2 an AU, so there are stars that do get faily close to that distance. Larry Quoting E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Ron - When do we get back the tens of millions of dollars spent looking for Nemesis? The NEO search teams could really use it. There's those 64 fragments of SW3 coming back around in 2022. Additionally there's a pack of nuts all gearing up to holler about 2012, very close to SW3's 2011 return. If I can get the money back, can I keep a percentage? good hunting, Ed --- Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bigger than Pluto? At greater AUs'out? This could explain the comets that come out of the blue appear once and never return. Did not astronomers think that it was interstellar perturbations that jarred the K-belt? A large planet(s) out there would have much more effect than stars light years away. We would have seen evidence of a large planet by now, which we've haven't. Analysis by Myles Standish at JPL indicates that a large planet out beyond Neptune does not exist. Some astronomers have been searching for a Planet X based on what appeared to be irregularities in the orbits of Uranus and Neptune. However, when the extremely accurate measurements of the mass of Neptune made by the Voyager 2 flyby in 1989 are inserted in the equations, these irregularities vanish. Prior to the Voyager 2 flyby, the mass number used for Neptune was off by five-tenths of 1 percent. When the new value for Neptune's mass is factored into the equations, the orbits of the outer planets are shown to be moving as exp ected, going all the way back to the early 1800's. The results of Standish's analysis are published in the May 1993 issue of The Astronomical Journal Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Larry A. Lebofsky Senior Research Scientist Co-editor, Meteorite If you give a man a fish, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory you feed him for a day. 1541 East University If you teach a man to fish, University of Arizona
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:54:54 -0600, you wrote: need for a technical definition. The ordinary users of English (and other languages) have long since decided what the planets are- and that they don't include Ceres (with its own history), nor Charon, nor any big iceballs floating around in peculiar orbits far, far beyond Pluto. You know, I've seen so many articles on this over the past few months crying out but what about the children!, about how children just LOVE calling Pluto a planet and how textbooks and museum displays will have to be changed. Well, won't those poor little buggers be suprised if they suddenly have to come up with a mnemonic for 12 of them! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Darren: We were getting ready to redo a kids video we did years ago and now we have to add three new planets (one without a name yet). Larry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Define shock value
Hello Walter, Hi Jeff, Hello List, In addition to Jeff's informative website that describes Dieter Stöffler's petrographic shock classification of chondrites, some more details that help recognize the shock stage when you look at a thin section of a chondrite under a microscope in plane and/or polarized light: STÖFFLER D. et al. (1991) Proposal for a revised petrographic shock classification of chondrites (Meteoritics 26-4, 1991, A398-A39): S1 (unshocked) - sharp optical extinction of olivine S2 (very weakly shocked) - undulatory extinction of olivine S3 (weakly shocked) - planar fractures in olivine S4 (moderately shocked) - mosaicism in olivine S5 (strongly shocked) - isotropization of plagioclase (maskelynite) and planar deformation features in olivine S6 (very strongly shocked) - recrystallization of olivine and phase transformations of olivine (ringwoodite) Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Well, I teach space science at our local school, and we'll continue to teach that there are nine planets- because the weight of that word is historical, not technical. We'll also discuss all the other sorts of bodies that make up the Solar System. The traditional mnemonics will continue to serve well. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 You know, I've seen so many articles on this over the past few months crying out but what about the children!, about how children just LOVE calling Pluto a planet and how textbooks and museum displays will have to be changed. Well, won't those poor little buggers be suprised if they suddenly have to come up with a mnemonic for 12 of them! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Lahoma meteorite
Hi all, got a slice of Lahoma from Michael Cottingham. I have to say the same as Bernd Pauli did. A beautiful meteorite. I gave it a mirror-polish and the result is great. Look at that jade-green meteorite. www.austromet.com/CollnPics/Lahoma_121.5g_A.jpg www.austromet.com/CollnPics/Lahoma_121.5g_B.jpg Thanks Michael for making it available. Green meteorites are my goal. Cheers, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Sterling, In what order would you place the 12 planets? Would the order for Pluto and Charon be based on which is usually closest to the Sun? If so, which would be most often closest to the Sun? I'm having trouble picturing this orbital dance in my head. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New class of planets-- inside scoop
An inside source at the IAU leaked a proposal for another new category of planets: the jerk planets. Jerk planets are nimble planets that orbit the sun but also insist on constantly running circles around their larger, slower neighbors. This term is to replace the archaic word moon. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The IAU Draft Definition of 'Planet' and 'Plutons'
http://www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.iau.org/iau0601/iau0601_release.html The IAU draft definition of planet and plutons August 16, 2006 Prague The world's astronomers, under the auspices of the International Astronomical Union (IAU), have concluded two years of work defining the difference between planets and the smaller solar system bodies such as comets and asteroids. If the definition is approved by the astronomers gathered 14-25 August 2006 at the IAU General Assembly in Prague, our Solar System will include 12 planets, with more to come: eight classical planets that dominate the system, three planets in a new and growing category of plutons - Pluto-like objects - and Ceres. Pluto remains a planet and is the prototype for the new category of plutons. With the advent of powerful new telescopes on the ground and in space, planetary astronomy has gone though an exciting development over the past decade. For thousands of years very little was known about the planets other than they were objects that moved in the sky with respect to the background of fixed stars. In fact the word planet comes from the Greek word for wanderer. But today hosts of newly discovered large objects in the outer regions of our Solar System present a challenge to our historically based definition of a planet. At first glance one should think that it is easy to define what a planet is - a large and round body. On second thought difficulties arise, as one could ask where is the lower limit? - how large, and how round should an asteroid be before it becomes a planet - as well as where is the upper limit? - how large can a planet be before it becomes a brown dwarf or a star? IAU President Ron Ekers explains the rational behind a planet definition: Modern science provides much more knowledge than the simple fact that objects orbiting the Sun appear to move with respect to the background of fixed stars. For example, recent new discoveries have been made of objects in the outer regions of our Solar System that have sizes comparable to and larger than Pluto. These discoveries have rightfully called into question whether or not they should be considered as new 'planets.' The International Astronomical Union has been the arbiter of planetary and satellite nomenclature since its inception in 1919. The world's astronomers, under the auspices of the IAU, have had official deliberations on a new definition for the word planet for nearly two years. IAU's top, the so-called Executive Committee, led by Ekers, formed a Planet Definition Committee (PDC) comprised by seven persons who were astronomers, writers, and historians with broad international representation. This group of seven convened in Paris in late June and early July 2006. They culminated the two year process by reaching a unanimous consensus for a proposed new definition of the word planet. Owen Gingerich, the Chair of the Planet Definition Committee says: In July we had vigorous discussions of both the scientific and the cultural/historical issues, and on the second morning several members admitted that they had not slept well, worrying that we would not be able to reach a consensus. But by the end of a long day, the miracle had happened: we had reached a unanimous agreement. The part of IAU Resolution 5 for GA-XXVI that describes the planet definition, states A planet is a celestial body that (a) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (b) is in orbit around a star, and is neither a star nor a satellite of a planet. Member of the Planet Definition Committee, Richard Binzel says: Our goal was to find a scientific basis for a new definition of planet and we chose gravity as the determining factor. Nature decides whether or not an object is a planet. According to the new draft definition, two conditions must be satisfied for an object to be called a planet. First, the object must be in orbit around a star, while not being itself a star. Second, the object must be large enough (or more technically correct, massive enough) for its own gravity to pull it into a nearly spherical shape. The shape of objects with mass above 5 x 1020 kg and diameter greater than 800 km would normally be determined by self-gravity, but all borderline cases would have to be established by observation. If the proposed Resolution is passed, the 12 planets in our Solar System will be Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Ceres, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Charon and 2003 UB313. The name 2003 UB313 is provisional, as a real name has not yet been assigned to this object. A decision and announcement of a new name are likely not to be made during the IAU General Assembly in Prague, but at a later time. The naming procedures depend on the outcome of the Resolution vote. There will most likely be more planets announced by the IAU in the future. Currently a dozen candidate planets are listed on IAU's
[meteorite-list] Mars Global Surveyor Images: August 10-16, 2006
MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR IMAGES August 10-16, 2006 The following new images taken by the Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) on the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft are now available: o Mesa = Table (Released 10 August 2006) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/08/10 o Deimos! (Released 11 August 2006) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/08/11 o Weepy Crater (Released 12 August 2006) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/08/12 o All Hail Hale (Released 13 August 2006) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/08/13 o Polar Exposure (Released 14 August 2006) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/08/14 o Mars at Ls 93 Degrees (Released 15 August 2006) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/08/15 o Diversionary Tactic (Released 16 August 2006) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/08/16 All of the Mars Global Surveyor images are archived here: http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/index.html Mars Global Surveyor was launched in November 1996 and has been in Mars orbit since September 1997. It began its primary mapping mission on March 8, 1999. Mars Global Surveyor is the first mission in a long-term program of Mars exploration known as the Mars Surveyor Program that is managed by JPL for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS) and the California Institute of Technology built the MOC using spare hardware from the Mars Observer mission. MSSS operates the camera from its facilities in San Diego, CA. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Mars Surveyor Operations Project operates the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft with its industrial partner, Lockheed Martin Astronautics, from facilities in Pasadena, CA and Denver, CO. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi Chris: Since your two posts on this subjsetc, I think some of the responders have gotten a little out of hand and think that they know more than everyone else. 1. This is the second committee to have dealt with the issue of determining a definition of a planet. 2. A lot of the discussion of the second committee was based heavily on what the first committee did. 3. A lot of effort was put into the formation of this committee to get a crosssection of the community from a variety of countries and included a premier science writer and an astronomy historian. To some of you listening, do you think that in the two or three milliseconds that you thought about what was proposed by this IAU committee that you are better qualified to come up with a solution? 4. Now that I have vented my splean, I will respond to your emails, Chris. 5. Yes, the IAU does have the authority to make such decisions! They are the organization recognized by ALL astronomers as the organization who can do such things. They OK the names of asteroids and comets and are the organization who came up with the 88 constellations that we have today. 6. Which brings me back to your second (I think) email. First a side note to Ed, I think (am losing track of the emails, I dumped enough on Sterling). Granted there are only 7 continents and 7 seas, should we limit ourselves to 9 US states because that is all you can remember or 9 countries (I will not go there)? 7. I have spent nearly two decades doing science education (3.5 doing science) and one of the most important things that we can teach are kids is that science is dynamic and that numbers change. When I grew up there were 32 moons in the Solar System and no extra solar planets (and no Kuiper Belt Objects). However, I have changes what I teach as we learn more. That is the true nature of science. If you were teaching in 1930 would you have left the Solar System with 8 planets? or in the early 1700s, kept the Solar System at 6 planets? Traditionally, the Earth is the center of the universe, why not let well enough alone? Get a little off track, sorry. 8. A lot of effort and a lot of thought went into this decision both from a SCIENTIFIC (not technical) perspective and from an historical perspective. I know all of the people on the first committee and many of the people on the second one and I have respect for them and for their decision. While this is only a proposal to the IAU General Assembly and may change before next week (doubt there will be much of a change), I think that you are doing a disservice to your students by telling them that there are only nine planets (it is all over the news, how can they miss it). Chris, if you want to continue this discussion offline, please feel free to contact me. Larry -- Dr. Larry A. Lebofsky Senior Research Scientist Co-editor, Meteorite If you give a man a fish, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory you feed him for a day. 1541 East University If you teach a man to fish, University of Arizonayou feed him for a lifetime. Tucson, AZ 85721-0063 ~Chinese Proverb Phone: 520-621-6947 FAX:520-621-8364 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:26:39 -0700, you wrote: science. If you were teaching in 1930 would you have left the Solar System with 8 planets? or in the early 1700s, kept the Solar System at 6 planets? Traditionally, the Earth is the center of the universe, why not let well enough alone? The difference is, the idea that the Earth is the center of the solar system was proven incorrect, so that theory was replaced with one with the sun at the center. Wherther or not Pluto is a planet is a semantic opinion, though-- little different than debating on how many angels can dance on the head of a needle. People have the right to disagree with opinions, even if it is with the opinions of the top astronomers in the field. Myself, I think the opinion of calling KBOs and Ceres planets seems to be just a way to keep calling Pluto a planet and makes a royal mess that will just get worse as more KBOs are discovered. So, not only in 1930, in 2006 if I were teaching I'd want to teach that there are 8 planets, plus KBOs, asteroids, and comets. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales.
Mike, I thought the list should have a better understanding of what is happening with Moss. I would guess that 2 to 3 kg or more will eventually be sold to collectors. The idea that if one doesn't jump now, one will never get any, is just wrong--a false impression broadcast on the list to sell one person's rocks. I am not going to quibble with your price, Mike. It may well be good. I too have a lot of money in this--it seems much more than you do. Of course I am interested in protecting my investment and recovering my money too. I appreciate your descriptions of the hunt and the other information you have provided. I wish I could have been there. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com That is quite rude Eric, trying to steal my customers for a new meteorite sale when I just returned after spending over $5000 getting it. You don't have it now, don't even know when you are getting it, and you jump in trying to squash my sales. I have never done such a thing to you, why do it to me? Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Twelker Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:37 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. I will have some Moss too -- but probably not until around the end of the month. I expect that collectors will be able to get pieces for some time. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com Ok, today was a rough day with paying bills, taking care of the usual things after a 3 week absence, and trying to collect my precious cargo from Sweden without success! I will focus on selling some of the Moss meteorite tomorrow. I must recover some of the nearly $7000 I spent on the trip to Norway and Sweden. Anyone who thinks meteorite hunting is cheap needs to try it sometime! I will prefer to do private sales as I have too many small pieces to photograph and put on the website as I normally do. I know from the response to my emails over the last couple of weeks I will have most of the material sold rapidly. I have too many emails from the trip to go through quickly, so Anyone wanting a piece needs to email me ASAP with the amount they want to spend and I can try to accommodate them. I will offer it for $200.00 per gram. I have many pieces with fusion crust, but that will run out fast, so if you want crust, I need to know like now. Anyone who thinks this is a high price needs to think again. I have already sold my largest piece for that amount, and Bob Haag and I had lunch today and he also wont sell for less as he bought his pieces. There are only 5 witnessed falls of CO3 meteorites in the world, Moss if confirmed as a CO3 will make that #6. So here we go, let the sales begin! Moss Norway, fell July 14th, 2006 at ~10:15 am in the Ostfold region including the towns of Rygge and Moss. So far, just over 3 kilograms known. 50% of this is already in Museum hands and totally out of the running for sales. After a month of searching by over 20 meteorite hunters and dealers, I highly doubt that much more will be recovered if any at all. Michael Farmer By the way, I will build a great webpage with photos as soon as my film arrives from Sweden. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Sterling, I have another scenario that will need an official decision someday if discovered to occur. What if two spherical bodies rotate around a common barycenter, but this barycenter is located outside of the more massive orbital partner during half its revolution and inside during the other half. Obviously the larger body will not be perfectly spherical and/or the orbits not circular for this scenario to occur. Would the less massive body then be a planet or a satellite? Would the decision be based on the length of time that the center of revolution is either outside or inside the more massive body, i.e., would it be a satellite some of the time and a planet some of the time, or would it be a satellite all of the time if at any time during its orbit its barycenter is located inside the more massive object? David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Define shock value
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:22:47 +1000, you wrote: Hi Walter, This may help explain the pressures involved in how they are shocked and later classified. http://www.meteorites.com.au/oddsends/impactmelts.html I have an odd looking rather weathered 132 gram NWA half-stone that looks similar (to me) to your Unclassified Saharan Impact Melt - 13.70g Half-Stone. Check it out: http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/temp/nwa_melt.jpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales.
I thought this issue was addressed in the past and it was generally thought that piggybacking sales announcements was NOT COOL. Howard - Original Message - From: Eric Twelker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. Mike, I thought the list should have a better understanding of what is happening with Moss. I would guess that 2 to 3 kg or more will eventually be sold to collectors. The idea that if one doesn't jump now, one will never get any, is just wrong--a false impression broadcast on the list to sell one person's rocks. I am not going to quibble with your price, Mike. It may well be good. I too have a lot of money in this--it seems much more than you do. Of course I am interested in protecting my investment and recovering my money too. I appreciate your descriptions of the hunt and the other information you have provided. I wish I could have been there. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com That is quite rude Eric, trying to steal my customers for a new meteorite sale when I just returned after spending over $5000 getting it. You don't have it now, don't even know when you are getting it, and you jump in trying to squash my sales. I have never done such a thing to you, why do it to me? Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Twelker Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:37 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. I will have some Moss too -- but probably not until around the end of the month. I expect that collectors will be able to get pieces for some time. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com Ok, today was a rough day with paying bills, taking care of the usual things after a 3 week absence, and trying to collect my precious cargo from Sweden without success! I will focus on selling some of the Moss meteorite tomorrow. I must recover some of the nearly $7000 I spent on the trip to Norway and Sweden. Anyone who thinks meteorite hunting is cheap needs to try it sometime! I will prefer to do private sales as I have too many small pieces to photograph and put on the website as I normally do. I know from the response to my emails over the last couple of weeks I will have most of the material sold rapidly. I have too many emails from the trip to go through quickly, so Anyone wanting a piece needs to email me ASAP with the amount they want to spend and I can try to accommodate them. I will offer it for $200.00 per gram. I have many pieces with fusion crust, but that will run out fast, so if you want crust, I need to know like now. Anyone who thinks this is a high price needs to think again. I have already sold my largest piece for that amount, and Bob Haag and I had lunch today and he also wont sell for less as he bought his pieces. There are only 5 witnessed falls of CO3 meteorites in the world, Moss if confirmed as a CO3 will make that #6. So here we go, let the sales begin! Moss Norway, fell July 14th, 2006 at ~10:15 am in the Ostfold region including the towns of Rygge and Moss. So far, just over 3 kilograms known. 50% of this is already in Museum hands and totally out of the running for sales. After a month of searching by over 20 meteorite hunters and dealers, I highly doubt that much more will be recovered if any at all. Michael Farmer By the way, I will build a great webpage with photos as soon as my film arrives from Sweden. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
For my utterly uneducated OPINION, maybe we should look at the effect a proposed planet has on the rest of the stellar system, via gravity. That way, dim massive bodies don't get overlooked for bright tiny icy ones. Rocks that are largely, well, rocks could be called asteroids, ones that are largely icy Plutons or crutons :), and ones that get perturbed towards the inner stellar system could either be called comets or major disasters, depending where they are heading. Planetary systems that orbit each other, rather than the Sun, can be considered in common, as would be the Earth-Luna system, or Pluto-Chiron. An arbitrary cutoff could be established, and varied depending on the system thus studied, but I can hear the Europan Confederation howling right now! Tracy Latimer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Nine Planets Become 12 with Controversial New Definition
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060816_planet_definition.html Nine Planets Become 12 with Controversial New Definition By Robert Roy Britt space.com 16 August 2006 The tally of planets in our solar system would jump instantly to a dozen under a highly controversial new definition proposed by the International Astronomical Union (IAU). Eventually there would be hundreds as more round objects are found beyond Neptune. The proposal, which sources tell SPACE.com is gaining broad support, tries to plug a big gap in astronomy textbooks, which have never had a definition for the word planet. It addresses discoveries of Pluto-sized worlds that have in recent years pitched astronomers into heated debates over terminology. * The asteroid Ceres which is round, would be recast as a dwarf planet in the new scheme. * Pluto would remain a planet and its moon Charon would be reclassified as a planet. Both would be called plutons, however, to distinguish them from the eight classical planets. * A far-out Pluto-sized object known as 2003 UB313 would also be called a pluton. That would make Caltech researcher Mike Brown, who found 2003 UB313, formally the discoverer of the 12th planet. But he thinks it's a lousy idea. It's flattering to be considered discoverer of the 12th planet, Brown said in a telephone interview. He applauded the committee's efforts but said the overall proposal is a complete mess. By his count, the definition means there are already 53 known planets in our solar system with countless more to be discovered. Brown and other another expert said the proposal, to be put forth Wednesday at the IAU General Assembly meeting in Prague, is not logical. For example, Brown said, it does not make sense to consider Ceres and Charon planets and not call our Moon (which is bigger than both) a planet. IAU members will vote on the proposal Thursday, Aug. 24. Its fate is far from clear. The definition The definition, which basically says round objects orbiting stars will be called planets, is simple at first glance: A planet is a celestial body that (a) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (b) is in orbit around a star, and is neither a star nor a satellite of a planet. Our goal was to find a scientific basis for a new definition of planet and we chose gravity as the determining factor, said Richard Binzel, an MIT planetary scientist who was part of a seven-member IAU committee that hashed out the proposal. Nature decides whether or not an object is a planet. I think they did the right thing, said Alan Stern, a planetary scientist at the Southwest Research Institute and leader of NASA's New Horizons robotic mission to Pluto. Stern expects a consensus to form around the proposal. They chose a nice economical definition that a lot of us wanted to see, Stern told SPACE.com. A lot of the other definitions had big problems. This is the only one that doesn't have big problems. I feel that they have made the most rational and scientific choices; namely ones which are physically based and can be most readily verified by observations, said Gibor Basri, an astronomy professor at the University of California, Berkeley. Basri made a similar proposal to the IAU in 2003, part of the long-running saga of failed attempts to define planet. Expect heated discussion But the IAU draft resolution explaining the definition is more complex, with caveats and suggestions and surprises that some astronomers think render the entire proposal unworkable. In particular, this aspect was criticized: A pair of round objects that orbit around a point in space that is outside both objects - meaning the center of gravity (or barycenter) is between the two planets in space as with Pluto and Charon - would be called double planets. Alan Boss, a planet-formation theorist at the Carnegie Institution of Washington, called the deliniation arbitrary. Brown said there will likely be other similar pairings discovered, and it's even possible a triple planet would be found given this definition. In response to the criticism, Binzel said it was important to distinguish between planets and satellites. He noted that barycenters are used to define and describe double stars and so the concept should apply to planets, too. The planet and satellite definition must be universally applicable, to all solar systems, not just our own, Binzel said by email from Prague. For example: Picture a pair of Jupiters discovered in another solar system. Would one of these Jupiters be a planet, and the other a satellite? The barycenter criterion means that a pair of Jupiters would be a double planet. Other astronomers saw other problems. It looks to me like a definition that was written by a committee of lawyers, not a committee of scientists, Boss said. I think these criteria are as arbitrary as any other you
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi Darren: I promised myself to not be the one to send out a dozen emails on a subject, but I seem to be breaking my own promise. I do not have the information in front of me, but will attempt to contact the person who knows the answer. (how big of an object can still be out there and not detected) What happens when you find something that is say the size of the Moon or just a little smaller than Mercury at the outer edges of the Kuiper Belt. This is not out of the question. What do you call it then? Just say too bad we have 9 (or 8 planets) and that is life? Science is not done that way it is dynamic and things do change. Granted my example with the Earth-centered system was going too far (I admit when I am wrong). When Archaea were first discovered, did biologists ignor them because they did not fit into the existing Eukaryota and Bacteria scheme? You need to be able to classify things and be willing to quantify classifications so that new discoveries can fit into these (or you create a new class). Saying that this is just the opinion of a group of astronomers shows a disrespect for astronomy as a science. Yes, you can have your own opinion. However, a lot of time and thought and research went into this proposal. It is more than just an opinion. It is solidly based on observation and the physical nature of the objects in our Solar System and other objects that are likely to be found in the future. Is is perfect? Probably not. But it is necessary. Larry Quoting Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:26:39 -0700, you wrote: science. If you were teaching in 1930 would you have left the Solar System with 8 planets? or in the early 1700s, kept the Solar System at 6 planets? Traditionally, the Earth is the center of the universe, why not let well enough alone? The difference is, the idea that the Earth is the center of the solar system was proven incorrect, so that theory was replaced with one with the sun at the center. Wherther or not Pluto is a planet is a semantic opinion, though-- little different than debating on how many angels can dance on the head of a needle. People have the right to disagree with opinions, even if it is with the opinions of the top astronomers in the field. Myself, I think the opinion of calling KBOs and Ceres planets seems to be just a way to keep calling Pluto a planet and makes a royal mess that will just get worse as more KBOs are discovered. So, not only in 1930, in 2006 if I were teaching I'd want to teach that there are 8 planets, plus KBOs, asteroids, and comets. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
I agree with you on the micromount issue. There are a couple of notable major Ebay sellers (who shall remain nameless) who are happy to combine shipping very reasonably, but if you only win 1 or 2 of their micros, it gets pricy pretty fast, especially when the postage makes up a substantial proportion of the total. They aren't exactly overcharging for shipping, but the $4+ cost of Priority postage for 1 micro is definitely a factor on my purchasing. I can't afford to shell out hundreds of dollars for whole slices, and micros were my way of building up a representative collection that displayed well in limited space, for prices that weren't exorbitant. Tracy Latimer From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:08:10 -0700 (PDT) What ever happened to the lower cost micromounts that used to show up on eBay? The reason I ask is that a few years ago I built the diversity of my collection with them and am still proud of each one. I am now spending more time in reviewing dealer's web sites but they seem to be few and far in between there also. There are a few dealers still selling them on eBay- but I won't pay $4+ for a priority box with a nickel size meteorite inside of it. The small mailers sent first class always worked fine and I never had any problems. Are the micro/macromounts no longer worth the time and effort to make and provide them? Or is it the more common material has ran its course and no longer available? Maybe lack of interest by buyers? Seems most of the meteorite specimens now being sold are out of my price range (thats my problem). I don't have any specific wants at the moment (of course there are always ones I would like to have!) but am just asking the question in general. Thank you. Mike __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
I think most dealers will be happy to sell you micros of any of their stock. You just need to ask. Most people do not buy them. I built a page with just a few micros (after outcries from a few customers) to see what would happen. I've sold two, that is it. So if there is no big demand, dealers won't list them. But we have a lot of small pieces that come off from cutting or splitting. And if it is rare material, most will custom cut. Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites tracy latimer wrote: I agree with you on the micromount issue. There are a couple of notable major Ebay sellers (who shall remain nameless) who are happy to combine shipping very reasonably, but if you only win 1 or 2 of their micros, it gets pricy pretty fast, especially when the postage makes up a substantial proportion of the total. They aren't exactly overcharging for shipping, but the $4+ cost of Priority postage for 1 micro is definitely a factor on my purchasing. I can't afford to shell out hundreds of dollars for whole slices, and micros were my way of building up a representative collection that displayed well in limited space, for prices that weren't exorbitant. Tracy Latimer From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:08:10 -0700 (PDT) What ever happened to the lower cost micromounts that used to show up on eBay? The reason I ask is that a few years ago I built the diversity of my collection with them and am still proud of each one. I am now spending more time in reviewing dealer's web sites but they seem to be few and far in between there also. There are a few dealers still selling them on eBay- but I won't pay $4+ for a priority box with a nickel size meteorite inside of it. The small mailers sent first class always worked fine and I never had any problems. Are the micro/macromounts no longer worth the time and effort to make and provide them? Or is it the more common material has ran its course and no longer available? Maybe lack of interest by buyers? Seems most of the meteorite specimens now being sold are out of my price range (thats my problem). I don't have any specific wants at the moment (of course there are always ones I would like to have!) but am just asking the question in general. Thank you. Mike __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
Anyone who charges $4.00 shipping for a micro in the USA is ripping off their customers. They are just trying to make money on the shipping. I charge $1.00 on 99% of the micors I sell on ebay. The exception is when the micro is valuable, like Lunar and Martian material that I need to track to ensure it isnt lost. Michael Farmer --- tracy latimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with you on the micromount issue. There are a couple of notable major Ebay sellers (who shall remain nameless) who are happy to combine shipping very reasonably, but if you only win 1 or 2 of their micros, it gets pricy pretty fast, especially when the postage makes up a substantial proportion of the total. They aren't exactly overcharging for shipping, but the $4+ cost of Priority postage for 1 micro is definitely a factor on my purchasing. I can't afford to shell out hundreds of dollars for whole slices, and micros were my way of building up a representative collection that displayed well in limited space, for prices that weren't exorbitant. Tracy Latimer From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:08:10 -0700 (PDT) What ever happened to the lower cost micromounts that used to show up on eBay? The reason I ask is that a few years ago I built the diversity of my collection with them and am still proud of each one. I am now spending more time in reviewing dealer's web sites but they seem to be few and far in between there also. There are a few dealers still selling them on eBay- but I won't pay $4+ for a priority box with a nickel size meteorite inside of it. The small mailers sent first class always worked fine and I never had any problems. Are the micro/macromounts no longer worth the time and effort to make and provide them? Or is it the more common material has ran its course and no longer available? Maybe lack of interest by buyers? Seems most of the meteorite specimens now being sold are out of my price range (thats my problem). I don't have any specific wants at the moment (of course there are always ones I would like to have!) but am just asking the question in general. Thank you. Mike __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Moss meteorite sales
Really Matteo, $200 gram is too much? $100 gram max? Murchison has a total known weight of over 250 kilograms, I have no problem selling it for $100.00 per gram. As of now, there is barely 3 kilograms of this material. Perhaps one kilogram total on the market. Based on my sales in the last hour, $200 per gram must be a fair price. Don't worry about it Matteo, it seems you will not get any. It seems that you are never happy, either the market is in ruin or meteorites are overpriced. Which is it? Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:03 AM To: Eric Twelker; Michael Farmer; Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. every dealers sale the meteorites for the prices he want. Is not a law a dealer have to respect a price of another dealer. And sinceraly for me $200/gr. is to much, $100/gr. max its a ok price...or I have to sale my Siena piece for $8000/gr. only why its impossible find a piece, and TKW its many under the Moss meteorite? Matteo __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
Hello Mike, Tracy and List, I've already emailed Mike directly but since two members have openly brought it up, I am more than willing to combine shipping on eBay sales. I often let people wait two or three weeks in order to build up items to combine the shipping, making the $4.05 Priority charge worth it to them. My preferred way of shipping within the US is by Priority Mail because of the added protection the Priority box provides. I ship in a standard brown box overseas. I am more than happy to send a few small items in a padded envelope at the customers request and responsibility (that meaning if they insist that a particular item be shipped in an envelope against my suggestion of a box). I will not ship fragile or thin slices in a padded envelope, however. I think this is pretty much what the majority of the eBay sellers would do. Basically, a simple email before bidding asking if a certain item, or items, can be shipped in a padded envelope is all it takes. Best regards and happy bidding, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 - Original Message - From: tracy latimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:36 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? I agree with you on the micromount issue. There are a couple of notable major Ebay sellers (who shall remain nameless) who are happy to combine shipping very reasonably, but if you only win 1 or 2 of their micros, it gets pricy pretty fast, especially when the postage makes up a substantial proportion of the total. They aren't exactly overcharging for shipping, but the $4+ cost of Priority postage for 1 micro is definitely a factor on my purchasing. I can't afford to shell out hundreds of dollars for whole slices, and micros were my way of building up a representative collection that displayed well in limited space, for prices that weren't exorbitant. Tracy Latimer From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:08:10 -0700 (PDT) What ever happened to the lower cost micromounts that used to show up on eBay? The reason I ask is that a few years ago I built the diversity of my collection with them and am still proud of each one. I am now spending more time in reviewing dealer's web sites but they seem to be few and far in between there also. There are a few dealers still selling them on eBay- but I won't pay $4+ for a priority box with a nickel size meteorite inside of it. The small mailers sent first class always worked fine and I never had any problems. Are the micro/macromounts no longer worth the time and effort to make and provide them? Or is it the more common material has ran its course and no longer available? Maybe lack of interest by buyers? Seems most of the meteorite specimens now being sold are out of my price range (thats my problem). I don't have any specific wants at the moment (of course there are always ones I would like to have!) but am just asking the question in general. Thank you. Mike __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
Mike, This statement is far from true: Anyone who charges $4.00 shipping for a micro in the USA is ripping off their customers. They are just trying to make money on the shipping. I charge $1.00 on 99% of the micors I sell on ebay. The exception is when the micro is valuable, like Lunar and Martian material that I need to track to ensure it isnt lost. Michael Farmer I only ship Priority Mail and charge exactly $4.05, the actual cost of the stamp. Most people PayPal payments including shipping. After PayPal takes their cut, I actually lose money on shipments. I combine on the average 5 items bringing down the customers' costs to just 81 cents an item. I combine over two auction sessions allowing them to bring shipping costs down even further. The buyer gets their items in 2 days without the breakage you get by shipping in padded envelopes. I have found, that overall Priority Mail is the only way to go and nobody is get ripped-off! Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
Hello Mike, I disagree with your comment, Anyone who charges $4.00 shipping for a micro in the USA is ripping off their customers. They are just trying to make money on the shipping. If my description has Priority Shipping of $4.05 clearly written and that is what I pay for the stamp, no one is getting ripped off or intentionally try to make extra money. As I stated in my previous post, bidders simply need to ask that items be shipped in a padded envelope and/or to combine items to save on shipping - Prior, During or After the transaction. I firmly believe in the box for extra shipping protection, but ultimately it is up to the customer. That's my last on this simple discussion regarding shipping practices. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: tracy latimer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Anyone who charges $4.00 shipping for a micro in the USA is ripping off their customers. They are just trying to make money on the shipping. I charge $1.00 on 99% of the micors I sell on ebay. The exception is when the micro is valuable, like Lunar and Martian material that I need to track to ensure it isnt lost. Michael Farmer --- tracy latimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with you on the micromount issue. There are a couple of notable major Ebay sellers (who shall remain nameless) who are happy to combine shipping very reasonably, but if you only win 1 or 2 of their micros, it gets pricy pretty fast, especially when the postage makes up a substantial proportion of the total. They aren't exactly overcharging for shipping, but the $4+ cost of Priority postage for 1 micro is definitely a factor on my purchasing. I can't afford to shell out hundreds of dollars for whole slices, and micros were my way of building up a representative collection that displayed well in limited space, for prices that weren't exorbitant. Tracy Latimer From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:08:10 -0700 (PDT) What ever happened to the lower cost micromounts that used to show up on eBay? The reason I ask is that a few years ago I built the diversity of my collection with them and am still proud of each one. I am now spending more time in reviewing dealer's web sites but they seem to be few and far in between there also. There are a few dealers still selling them on eBay- but I won't pay $4+ for a priority box with a nickel size meteorite inside of it. The small mailers sent first class always worked fine and I never had any problems. Are the micro/macromounts no longer worth the time and effort to make and provide them? Or is it the more common material has ran its course and no longer available? Maybe lack of interest by buyers? Seems most of the meteorite specimens now being sold are out of my price range (thats my problem). I don't have any specific wants at the moment (of course there are always ones I would like to have!) but am just asking the question in general. Thank you. Mike __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Darren, List Check out the Boston Globe article: http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2006/08/16/nine_no_longer_panel_declares_12_planets/ They're having a contest for a new mnemonic! Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:54:54 -0600, you wrote: need for a technical definition. The ordinary users of English (and other languages) have long since decided what the planets are- and that they don't include Ceres (with its own history), nor Charon, nor any big iceballs floating around in peculiar orbits far, far beyond Pluto. You know, I've seen so many articles on this over the past few months crying out but what about the children!, about how children just LOVE calling Pluto a planet and how textbooks and museum displays will have to be changed. Well, won't those poor little buggers be suprised if they suddenly have to come up with a mnemonic for 12 of them! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Define shock value
Walter, O. Richard Norton's Encyclopaedia of Meteorites is really good for defining this. Broadly, it's believed to be the impact pressure required to create the internal structure of the meteorite. Some minerals simply cannot form below certain pressures for example. Impact shock vein are caused by certain pressures in certain minerals etc. The shock features are likely dated to the time that the meteoroid was formed (broken off it's parent body)though some may be caused by subsequent impacts in space Can't recommend the book enough though. It's great for the beginner prepared to do a little work. Rob McC --- Walter L. Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list When you see the shock number with a meteorite (ex: s3, s4 etc.), is this referring to the amount of shock that the meteorite went through when it hit the earth, or when it broke apart or impacts (or multiple impacts) experienced in space. Or is it a number that refers to the overall shocking that occurred through any source. Walter L. Newton Golden, Co __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:25:52 -0700, you wrote: Hi Darren: What happens when you find something that is say the size of the Moon or just a little smaller than Mercury at the outer edges of the Kuiper Belt. This is not out of the question. What do you call it then? Just say too bad we have 9 (or 8 planets) I'm sure that we will find more and larger KBOs out there-- that is part of the problem-- do you want a list of 30 planets in the solar system? Or 40? And it cuts both ways-- what if you find a KBO just slightly smaller than the KBOs that are concidered planets-- say, it is 5 percent too small to become spherical due to it's own gravity, but is otherwise compositionally identical to ones that are slightly bigger. Is it a planet, or not? If not, isn't the cut-off of spherical pretty arbitrary? There is a commercial that airs currently on the US PBS system-- I honestly can't say I paid close enough attention to what programming it is advertising and hopefully someone else here who watches PBS can clear this up, but it involves a man who has some position in new science programming on PBS. He is walking through the streets of a city and random people on the street are greeting him and asking him science questions. One of those people asks him if Pluto is a planet-- he replied (paraphrasing here) that if Pluto was brought to the distance of Earth, it would have a tail-- that's not the behavoir of a planet. That's pretty much what sticks with me-- if you brought a KBO into the inner solar system, it probably wouldn't act like a planet, it'd act like a really big comet and boil largely away. Saying that this is just the opinion of a group of astronomers shows a disrespect for astronomy as a science. Yes, you can have your own opinion. However, a lot of time and thought and research went into this proposal. It is more than just an opinion. It is solidly based on observation and the physical nature of the objects in our Solar System and other objects that are likely to be found in the future. Is is perfect? Probably not. But it is necessary. It is based on observation and the physical nature of objects in the solar system that objects of a certain size collapse into a spherical shape due to their own gravity, yes, absolutely. What is opinion, though, is that the word planet, which is an ancient word that predates science as we know it, should be now officially redefined to mean an object that orbits the sun and is big enough to form a sphere under it's own gravity. If the public wants to accept that newly coined by committee definition of an ancient word, they are free to do so. But if they want to reject it, they are free to do that, too. Remember, a name isn't something fundamental-- it is just a label stuck on something to make it convenient to talk about it, rather than point and grunt. I just think that it is more convenient to limit the name planet to the 4 terrestrial and 4 jovan planets than include a smorgasbord of small bits of debris. And if really pushed on it, judging from what we've seen of other solar systems so far with the limited tools at hand, I'd have to say that the jovans are the real planets while the terrestials are just larger than average bits of stony debris left over from forming the 4 planets. :-) But I wouldn't go that far. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi, Pluto and Charon are Planets Ten and Eleven; Which is which? Nobody knows, outside of Heaven. The orbital period of Charon is 6.38723 days. Half that time, it's Eleven; half that time it's Ten. But don't ask when! Just think of them as Planet 10-11, like 7-11 or 9-11, as a set, or maybe as Planet EleventyTen. Their surfaces are only 16,040 km apart! Just jump real hard! I just mean, they're cozy. I can't see the problem of the redefinition being very large for us, or people generally, or astronomers, or even school children, but one thought occurs to me. What about the Astrologers? Are they going to ignore this? Or re-write everything? Customers will come in and then complain because the aspects of Ceres are not included in their Charts. What about the influence of Charon on their Love Life? You're a Scorpio with Xena rising... What a mess! Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: David Weir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 Sterling, In what order would you place the 12 planets? Would the order for Pluto and Charon be based on which is usually closest to the Sun? If so, which would be most often closest to the Sun? I'm having trouble picturing this orbital dance in my head. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
I predict the IAU will get some really nasty letters from the Luna City Chamber of Commerce, demanding the the Earth-Moon System be recognized as a DOUBLE PLANET, since it meets all the criteria applied to Pluto-Charon System. What are the criteria applied to the Pluto/Charon system? I too pondered how Pluto/Charon but not Earth/Moon may be defined. My resolution was that any bodies orbit their common centre of mass. For Earth/Moon, this point resides below the surface of the Earth (if memory serves correctly) so to all intents and purposes, you can claim the Earth is at the centre. For Pluto/Charon, that is not the case. That's why I ask the criterion used. Personally, I always thought this was a nonsensical argument. The original planetos were literally wanderers, stars that moved to naked eye observers. By that definition, there are only 5 planets, the ones known to the ancients. I cannot understand the argument about ceres. It was a planet for 70 years then it wasn't again because of it's size! Huh! It's 1/10 the diameter of the earth, but the earth is 1/10 the size of Jupiter. The make-up of Ceres is a lot closer to earth's than Jupiters? The whole concept of planet is daft and should be limited to it's original concept. We've long divided the planets according to terrestrial and gaseous when the types have had little else in common other than being visible to ancient astronomers. I'd like the term pluton to be accepted as an acknowledgement of diversity. Rob McC just being Devil's Advocate __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi Sterling: It is a little more complicated than that! Remember that Pluto is tilted on its side (about) and so while in recent years half the time Charon is closer or further away, in a mere 50 years or so (1/4 of the orbit) they will be side by side. In response to Rob's last email, yes, the center of mass is outside Pluto (the same criterion used for binary stars), so binary planet. Larry Quoting Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Pluto and Charon are Planets Ten and Eleven; Which is which? Nobody knows, outside of Heaven. The orbital period of Charon is 6.38723 days. Half that time, it's Eleven; half that time it's Ten. But don't ask when! Just think of them as Planet 10-11, like 7-11 or 9-11, as a set, or maybe as Planet EleventyTen. Their surfaces are only 16,040 km apart! Just jump real hard! I just mean, they're cozy. I can't see the problem of the redefinition being very large for us, or people generally, or astronomers, or even school children, but one thought occurs to me. What about the Astrologers? Are they going to ignore this? Or re-write everything? Customers will come in and then complain because the aspects of Ceres are not included in their Charts. What about the influence of Charon on their Love Life? You're a Scorpio with Xena rising... What a mess! Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: David Weir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 Sterling, In what order would you place the 12 planets? Would the order for Pluto and Charon be based on which is usually closest to the Sun? If so, which would be most often closest to the Sun? I'm having trouble picturing this orbital dance in my head. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Larry A. Lebofsky Senior Research Scientist Co-editor, Meteorite If you give a man a fish, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory you feed him for a day. 1541 East University If you teach a man to fish, University of Arizonayou feed him for a lifetime. Tucson, AZ 85721-0063 ~Chinese Proverb Phone: 520-621-6947 FAX:520-621-8364 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Beware of the two kinds of 'Moss'-material...
Hello List, I think the buyers of the 'Moss'-meteorite should be aware of the fact that there are two kinds of material coming from the fall in Moss, Norway: 1) The freshest is the material that was not affected by the heavy rains from about the 30th of July. Before this it was all dry (and the farmers complained it was the driest summer in many decades). I was there myself in Moss only in the dry period. As you may know, only me and Mazur and another finder collected our material on the 19th, 23rd (and 24th). Se my erlier posting: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2006-August/186289.html (E.Twelker will also have this same material in some time - see his posts.) This is well before the rains started. This is also the only material from the biggest piece found. 2) The rest of the material that is available has been collected well after the rains started. One world class american meteorite classifier has seen both materials and has commented that the 'after the rains material' is clearly more oxidized. So to get the only existing original pristine material the only source is Mazur, myself (and later Twelker). Be aware also that this material can be a new group of carbonaceous meteorite as it contains small white CAIs, isolated olivine grains, but do not look quite like other COs. This might make 'Moss' the type specimen of a new group with one member? So, maybe the price is not very high for this material... Contact me off the list for price/weight and order information. (Tomorrow I will also have a page for this at: http://home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/060714/moss.html ) Best wishes, Bjørn Sørheim __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi, Chris, List, Actually, the IAU does have the authority, beyond the support of every working scientist in the field. The IAU was founded in 1918/9 to clear up a horrific mess of everybody naming the SAME Lunar and Martian features with their own choice of names, so that you had to refer to the crater Prof. X calls Backscat and Prof. Y calls Gribniz but Prof. Z calls Tinkerbelle for anyone to know what feature you're talking about. Under a whole array of International Treaties, most of which the US is signatory to, they are designated to be the official arbiter of this and that, so many times and in so many treaties, that their authority is virtually statutory. For example, the GPS timing would be impossible with the geodetic-celestial coordinate transfer, which they defined and implemented. Would you like to be flying around the world and have the GPS system change at every national border? No thanks. The list of things they do that are essential and absolutely necessary is very long. They're not the Académie Française; they're a lot more authoritative! All the Académie Française does is try to bully the French into talking like it's the eighteenth century. Prithee, what harm in that, sirrah? And while I like to tease them, like any European French Model bureaucracy, they do a huge service and this nomenclature debate is actually quite a unique and rare return to their roots in the midst of all the snazzy things they do. (Did I just call them snazzy?) And the ordinary users of English are common-sense people; they're not going use names for things that are not common to all listeners and other talkers. If most people call Ceres a planet, after a while everybody will. I predict that in 2015, when the highly detailed images flow back from the Dawn Mission and a new and strange and fascinating world unfolds, everybody will be talking about the planet Ceres. I think of it as Dangerfield's World. It don't get no respect. But that'll change. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 Loonie indeed. It doesn't matter how they vote, the IAU simply doesn't have the authority to define planet (they aren't the Académie française, after all g). IMO they are fools for attempting to do so, as there is no need for a technical definition. The ordinary users of English (and other languages) have long since decided what the planets are- and that they don't include Ceres (with its own history), nor Charon, nor any big iceballs floating around in peculiar orbits far, far beyond Pluto. At most, this will cause a few authors of technical papers to adjust their jargon- and I'm not even sure of that. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:58 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 The IAU proposal for 12 planets is as follows: 1. Ceres 'cause it's big and round and orbits the Sun, 2. 2003UB313 (Xena) 'cause it's big and round and orbits the Sun, 3. Charon, Pluto's Moon, 'cause it's big and round and orbits the Sun and constitutes along with Pluto a DOUBLE PLANET system! All other planetary bodies have to apply for membership and present credentials, at some future date. Still think the vote's a toss-up. I predict the IAU will get some really nasty letters from the Luna City Chamber of Commerce, demanding the the Earth-Moon System be recognized as a DOUBLE PLANET, since it meets all the criteria applied to Pluto-Charon System. Those guys up there are, well, Loonie... __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
No, they don't have the authority to redefine words that are in common usage and found in ordinary dictionaries. That is quite different from defining the proper name of bodies, craters, etc. Their definitions are more akin to recommendations than anything binding; I can quite legally call any astronomical object anything I want; of course, it probably won't be accepted by many! In this case, what they are actually doing is overloading the word planet. That is, they are creating a new definition in addition to those already in use. As a rule, I think overloading words in this way is a bad idea since it is likely to lead to confusion. IMO the wise thing to do would be to worry about the subcategories, which are what really matter (e.g. terrestrial body, icy body, gas giant, etc). The parent category of all these probably doesn't need a rigorously defined name at all, but if given one should be something other than planet. In any case such bodies lie along a continuum of spherocity, barycenter location, etc; attempting a rigorous definition of something that is probably not definable is just asking for trouble. One of the goals of creating nomenclature should be to avoid breaking things to the greatest extent possible. If this proposal is adopted, it breaks countless books and publications. On the other hand, adopting a new word to describe the sort of bodies we think of as planets would break very little; new publications would simply be a little more precise than older ones. Definitions should be backwards compatible! Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Larry Lebofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 Hi, Chris, List, Actually, the IAU does have the authority, beyond the support of every working scientist in the field. The IAU was founded in 1918/9 to clear up a horrific mess of everybody naming the SAME Lunar and Martian features with their own choice of names, so that you had to refer to the crater Prof. X calls Backscat and Prof. Y calls Gribniz but Prof. Z calls Tinkerbelle for anyone to know what feature you're talking about. Under a whole array of International Treaties, most of which the US is signatory to, they are designated to be the official arbiter of this and that, so many times and in so many treaties, that their authority is virtually statutory. For example, the GPS timing would be impossible with the geodetic-celestial coordinate transfer, which they defined and implemented. Would you like to be flying around the world and have the GPS system change at every national border? No thanks. The list of things they do that are essential and absolutely necessary is very long. They're not the Académie Française; they're a lot more authoritative! All the Académie Française does is try to bully the French into talking like it's the eighteenth century. Prithee, what harm in that, sirrah? And while I like to tease them, like any European French Model bureaucracy, they do a huge service and this nomenclature debate is actually quite a unique and rare return to their roots in the midst of all the snazzy things they do. (Did I just call them snazzy?) And the ordinary users of English are common-sense people; they're not going use names for things that are not common to all listeners and other talkers. If most people call Ceres a planet, after a while everybody will. I predict that in 2015, when the highly detailed images flow back from the Dawn Mission and a new and strange and fascinating world unfolds, everybody will be talking about the planet Ceres. I think of it as Dangerfield's World. It don't get no respect. But that'll change. Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12-- Mike Brown's view
That would make Caltech researcher Mike Brown, who found 2003 UB313, formally the discoverer of the 12th planet. But he thinks it's a lousy idea. It's flattering to be considered discoverer of the 12th planet, Brown said in a telephone interview. He applauded the committee's efforts but said the overall proposal is a complete mess. By his count, the definition means there are already 53 known planets in our solar system, with countless more to be discovered. Brown and another expert said the proposal, being put forth Wednesday at the IAU General Assembly meeting in Prague, is not logical. For example, Brown said, it does not make sense to consider Ceres and Charon planets and not call our moon (which is bigger than both) a planet. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14364833/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12-- Mike Brown's view
And his web site page on the issue: http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/whatsaplanet/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] PLANET CERES AND THE 22ND CONSTELLATION OF THE ZODIAC
Dear List, Our old correspondent MexicoDoug ask me to forward this message to the meteorite-list as he is not subscribed but obviously still reading! (I wondered where Doug had gotten to.) Sterling K. Webb Dear Sterling and List, While everyone from the eyeballs inside Hubble telescope to Casey Station enjoys this fun but and silly debate on what constitutes the right stuff for being a Planet (can we do a better example for the kids and go back to astronauts and more meaningful stuff), it is my pleasure to announce for your viewing pleasure: On August 11, the historical planet Ceres made its closest pass to Earth! And then on August 12 at 09:15 UTC it registered its specific opposition to the IAU and Earth in general. No doubt the Cererians argued before the League of Astronomical Justice to make their case - such is a conspiracy the IAU has gotten involved itself doing. Not only is Ceres a planet now...it is a superior planet. Thus we can observe wonderful Ceres as She leaves opposition (opposition vs. the Sun actually from Earth's perspective which gives the best views) now as a full fledged Superior Planet. Most minor planets are superior of course...and I'm sure Brian Marsden knew that. While Ceres's day in the Sun's Limelight for Earthlings is a few days past - that is- the day you can unclothe your eyes and try an almost naked look for the fertile goddess Ceres, she continues today at about 7.64 magnitude - a very easy binocular target for peeping astronomers. (A brightness which place her between Uranus, a naked eye target planet missed by the ancients at least in recognition as a wanderer, and the dimmer Neptune. Hurrah for the third Woman Planet!!! If you happen to view from just the right place (The ISS in the dark, and with an acute 9-year old's vision accompanying you, maybe?), you might spy her, the superior planet Ceres, this week in the Constellation Piscis Australis at about magnitude of 7.62 (at close approach). Normally this brightness is three times dimmer than any normal Earthling can detect with their unaided eyes. Piscis Australis is not one of the zodiacal constellations (though in mythology it is the father of the Pisces that are). It's hooked sharing the bright Star Fomalhaut with Aquarius's water jug and borders Capricornus...The Moon and other traditional planets haven't tread in Piscis Australis since the conceptualization of the constellations as far as I can tell, so there will now be 22 constellations in the zodiac for the wanderers, instead of 21...and probably a few more as we inventory the constellations. I wonder what the ancients would have said about our expanding the zodiac while we are at it. Maybe Chris is right, the committee hasn't heeded much of history in it's IMO pseudoscientific quest. Well, no doubt it will be doomed to repeat itself in the next orbit as the sky is thankfully quite resistant to then present bureaucracy and filled with other wonders we can dedicate our time more efficiently exploring. Yet, an arguable common wisdom has left the zodiac with its traditional and only 12 constellations, as sure as Pluto will continue to rise in Ophiuchus, together with the Sun and Venus on November 30, 2006...both rising also in Ophiuchus nicely aligned with Mercury, Mars and Jupiter nearby watching the latest snake trying for a bite of the zooIAUc. Saludos, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
Mike, Nobody is being ripped off! Breakage costs more than what is be saved by going first class. I have made thousands of shipments and have only had a couple items broken using Priority Mail which includes a sturdy box. Only two items were ever permanently lost as opposed to dozens using first class. Customers are actually paying more by going with dealers who do not combine shipping and use first class. As I stated, the average item shipping cost is less than 81 cents, a 19% savings over those who ship first class and don't combine shipping. The shipping costs are more than realized in savings comparing eBay costs with what dealers charge retail. On the average ebay is 68% cheaper than what dealers ask on their web-sites making it the best deal going for collectors and shipping factors in very little in comparison. That 99 cent micro would sell for over $5.00 in a retail setting! Enough said, Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? So then why not ship first class? You are telling us that people who buy a meteorite from you on ebay for $0.99 cents and then pays $4.05 shipping is not being ripped off? Even if you are not keeping the money, it is just stupid to pay so much when it can be shipped for barely $.50 cents pluss $25 cents or so for the padded envelope. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:57 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, This statement is far from true: Anyone who charges $4.00 shipping for a micro in the USA is ripping off their customers. They are just trying to make money on the shipping. I charge $1.00 on 99% of the micors I sell on ebay. The exception is when the micro is valuable, like Lunar and Martian material that I need to track to ensure it isnt lost. Michael Farmer I only ship Priority Mail and charge exactly $4.05, the actual cost of the stamp. Most people PayPal payments including shipping. After PayPal takes their cut, I actually lose money on shipments. I combine on the average 5 items bringing down the customers' costs to just 81 cents an item. I combine over two auction sessions allowing them to bring shipping costs down even further. The buyer gets their items in 2 days without the breakage you get by shipping in padded envelopes. I have found, that overall Priority Mail is the only way to go and nobody is get ripped-off! Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Chris: So what are these things that are being discovered around other stars? Clearly not planets! As someone else has said, do you go back to the 5 original planets? Earth does not wander through the sky, so is it a planet based on the original difinition of a planet? Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are visible to the naked eye. When it was determined that the Earth went around the Sun, then we redefined a planet from its ancient meaning of wandering star (which they are not). There is nothing wrong with having a scientific definition for an otherwise common word. Closer to home, who gave the authority for the METSOC to classify meteorites,to name them, or to create new classes of meteorites? You need some sort of control. You need some authority in a position to make a scientific decision as to how something is classified (how it formed, where it came from) based on existing and new information. At one point, it was thought that all meteorites came from asteroids (that was a definition if you want look at it that way), but with new information, scientists determined that there were meteorites from the Moon and Mars - they changed the definition of meteorite. The above may seem silly to you, but one does not have to create new scientific words just because a word has a narrow meaning in general use. You could also create your own star charts, give stars and constellations their own names, sell the names of stars, but it would not be recognized by the authority that is recognized to do this: the IAU. You could do the same for meteorites. Quoting Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: No, they don't have the authority to redefine words that are in common usage and found in ordinary dictionaries. That is quite different from defining the proper name of bodies, craters, etc. Their definitions are more akin to recommendations than anything binding; I can quite legally call any astronomical object anything I want; of course, it probably won't be accepted by many! In this case, what they are actually doing is overloading the word planet. That is, they are creating a new definition in addition to those already in use. As a rule, I think overloading words in this way is a bad idea since it is likely to lead to confusion. IMO the wise thing to do would be to worry about the subcategories, which are what really matter (e.g. terrestrial body, icy body, gas giant, etc). The parent category of all these probably doesn't need a rigorously defined name at all, but if given one should be something other than planet. In any case such bodies lie along a continuum of spherocity, barycenter location, etc; attempting a rigorous definition of something that is probably not definable is just asking for trouble. One of the goals of creating nomenclature should be to avoid breaking things to the greatest extent possible. If this proposal is adopted, it breaks countless books and publications. On the other hand, adopting a new word to describe the sort of bodies we think of as planets would break very little; new publications would simply be a little more precise than older ones. Definitions should be backwards compatible! Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Larry Lebofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 Hi, Chris, List, Actually, the IAU does have the authority, beyond the support of every working scientist in the field. The IAU was founded in 1918/9 to clear up a horrific mess of everybody naming the SAME Lunar and Martian features with their own choice of names, so that you had to refer to the crater Prof. X calls Backscat and Prof. Y calls Gribniz but Prof. Z calls Tinkerbelle for anyone to know what feature you're talking about. Under a whole array of International Treaties, most of which the US is signatory to, they are designated to be the official arbiter of this and that, so many times and in so many treaties, that their authority is virtually statutory. For example, the GPS timing would be impossible with the geodetic-celestial coordinate transfer, which they defined and implemented. Would you like to be flying around the world and have the GPS system change at every national border? No thanks. The list of things they do that are essential and absolutely necessary is very long. They're not the Académie Française; they're a lot more authoritative! All the Académie Française does is try to bully the French into talking like it's the eighteenth century. Prithee, what harm in that, sirrah? And while I like to tease them, like any European French Model
Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
Mike, 2 day shipping with virtually no breakage for an average costs of just 81 cents an item is a good deal. Mike, if you check your records, I was one of your first customers on ebay and have shipped thousands of more items than you have under Lunarisha , Meteoritelab, RareMeteorites and Naturequest so I think I know what I am talking about. I will stick with Priority Mail which is far superior to First Class mail. Let the collector decide if the costs add up or not. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Nonsense, I have been on ebay for years before you Adam, I have shipped thousands of items. First class I have had maybe 10 losses in the last 10 years. Several items overseas have been lost, but that is neither here nor there. I combine shipping as well, as long as it can be safely shipped in a bubble envelope. Selling a 1 to 10 item then charging $4.05 shipping is not a good deal for anyone. Fine, you are not keeping the money. It still doubles the price of the item (or more) thus does not equal a good deal. Any time I see inflated shipping on ebay, I move on, I hate throwing my money away. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:07 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, Nobody is being ripped off! Breakage costs more than what is be saved by going first class. I have made thousands of shipments and have only had a couple items broken using Priority Mail which includes a sturdy box. Only two items were ever permanently lost as opposed to dozens using first class. Customers are actually paying more by going with dealers who do not combine shipping and use first class. As I stated, the average item shipping cost is less than 81 cents, a 19% savings over those who ship first class and don't combine shipping. The shipping costs are more than realized in savings comparing eBay costs with what dealers charge retail. On the average ebay is 68% cheaper than what dealers ask on their web-sites making it the best deal going for collectors and shipping factors in very little in comparison. That 99 cent micro would sell for over $5.00 in a retail setting! Enough said, Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? So then why not ship first class? You are telling us that people who buy a meteorite from you on ebay for $0.99 cents and then pays $4.05 shipping is not being ripped off? Even if you are not keeping the money, it is just stupid to pay so much when it can be shipped for barely $.50 cents pluss $25 cents or so for the padded envelope. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:57 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, This statement is far from true: Anyone who charges $4.00 shipping for a micro in the USA is ripping off their customers. They are just trying to make money on the shipping. I charge $1.00 on 99% of the micors I sell on ebay. The exception is when the micro is valuable, like Lunar and Martian material that I need to track to ensure it isnt lost. Michael Farmer I only ship Priority Mail and charge exactly $4.05, the actual cost of the stamp. Most people PayPal payments including shipping. After PayPal takes their cut, I actually lose money on shipments. I combine on the average 5 items bringing down the customers' costs to just 81 cents an item. I combine over two auction sessions allowing them to bring shipping costs down even further. The buyer gets their items in 2 days without the breakage you get by shipping in padded envelopes. I have found, that overall Priority Mail is the only way to go and nobody is get ripped-off! Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
However, when the word is very common, and the scientific definition is a new one, I think it is wiser not to overload the older word. In this case, there was no need. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Larry Lebofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 There is nothing wrong with having a scientific definition for an otherwise common word. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
Mike, In my inventory, I have over 275 different meteorites with multiple sizes ready to sell at any given time covering the rarest classes and price ranged for every budget. The only time I run multiples of the same item is when it is first introduced. I will be releasing over 50 new items this fall once they are mad official and inventoried. My brother Greg and I have the most comprehensive privately held planetary collection in the world and offer sizable pieces to help off set the tremendous acquisition costs but our heart is in dealing with collectors who do not have huge amounts at their disposal. I choose to sell micros because they are affordable to the average collector which these days has better things to spend his hard earned cash on. There are not too many dealers who can offer nearly every type of meteorite in existence. The micro market who collect by type is who I am trying to impress not you! Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Adam, give me a break, I started selling meteorites on Ebay in 1996. You WERE NOT one of my first customers. And as for selling more than me on ebay, yeah, I guess you have, since you load like every item you own on ebay week after week, 20 or 30 of the same item. Either way, indeed, the customers can decide what is a good deal. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:26 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, 2 day shipping with virtually no breakage for an average costs of just 81 cents an item is a good deal. Mike, if you check your records, I was one of your first customers on ebay and have shipped thousands of more items than you have under Lunarisha , Meteoritelab, RareMeteorites and Naturequest so I think I know what I am talking about. I will stick with Priority Mail which is far superior to First Class mail. Let the collector decide if the costs add up or not. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Nonsense, I have been on ebay for years before you Adam, I have shipped thousands of items. First class I have had maybe 10 losses in the last 10 years. Several items overseas have been lost, but that is neither here nor there. I combine shipping as well, as long as it can be safely shipped in a bubble envelope. Selling a 1 to 10 item then charging $4.05 shipping is not a good deal for anyone. Fine, you are not keeping the money. It still doubles the price of the item (or more) thus does not equal a good deal. Any time I see inflated shipping on ebay, I move on, I hate throwing my money away. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:07 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, Nobody is being ripped off! Breakage costs more than what is be saved by going first class. I have made thousands of shipments and have only had a couple items broken using Priority Mail which includes a sturdy box. Only two items were ever permanently lost as opposed to dozens using first class. Customers are actually paying more by going with dealers who do not combine shipping and use first class. As I stated, the average item shipping cost is less than 81 cents, a 19% savings over those who ship first class and don't combine shipping. The shipping costs are more than realized in savings comparing eBay costs with what dealers charge retail. On the average ebay is 68% cheaper than what dealers ask on their web-sites making it the best deal going for collectors and shipping factors in very little in comparison. That 99 cent micro would sell for over $5.00 in a retail setting! Enough said, Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? So then why not ship first class? You are telling us that people who buy a meteorite from you on ebay for $0.99 cents and then pays $4.05 shipping is not being ripped off? Even if you are not keeping the money, it is just stupid to pay so much
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:15:34 -0700, you wrote: You could also create your own star charts, give stars and constellations their own names, sell the names of stars Yep. http://www.starregistry.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
We have heard it all before. By the way, I never mentioned your name, I replied to an email regarding shipping, so why you took offense, I am not sure. I do not need impressing Adam, and the list does not need to be reminded daily that you consider yourself the biggest dealer with the rarest material in the world anymore, we have all heard it for years now. Michael Farmer --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, In my inventory, I have over 275 different meteorites with multiple sizes ready to sell at any given time covering the rarest classes and price ranged for every budget. The only time I run multiples of the same item is when it is first introduced. I will be releasing over 50 new items this fall once they are mad official and inventoried. My brother Greg and I have the most comprehensive privately held planetary collection in the world and offer sizable pieces to help off set the tremendous acquisition costs but our heart is in dealing with collectors who do not have huge amounts at their disposal. I choose to sell micros because they are affordable to the average collector which these days has better things to spend his hard earned cash on. There are not too many dealers who can offer nearly every type of meteorite in existence. The micro market who collect by type is who I am trying to impress not you! Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Adam, give me a break, I started selling meteorites on Ebay in 1996. You WERE NOT one of my first customers. And as for selling more than me on ebay, yeah, I guess you have, since you load like every item you own on ebay week after week, 20 or 30 of the same item. Either way, indeed, the customers can decide what is a good deal. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:26 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, 2 day shipping with virtually no breakage for an average costs of just 81 cents an item is a good deal. Mike, if you check your records, I was one of your first customers on ebay and have shipped thousands of more items than you have under Lunarisha , Meteoritelab, RareMeteorites and Naturequest so I think I know what I am talking about. I will stick with Priority Mail which is far superior to First Class mail. Let the collector decide if the costs add up or not. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Nonsense, I have been on ebay for years before you Adam, I have shipped thousands of items. First class I have had maybe 10 losses in the last 10 years. Several items overseas have been lost, but that is neither here nor there. I combine shipping as well, as long as it can be safely shipped in a bubble envelope. Selling a 1 to 10 item then charging $4.05 shipping is not a good deal for anyone. Fine, you are not keeping the money. It still doubles the price of the item (or more) thus does not equal a good deal. Any time I see inflated shipping on ebay, I move on, I hate throwing my money away. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:07 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, Nobody is being ripped off! Breakage costs more than what is be saved by going first class. I have made thousands of shipments and have only had a couple items broken using Priority Mail which includes a sturdy box. Only two items were ever permanently lost as opposed to dozens using first class. Customers are actually paying more by going with dealers who do not combine shipping and use first class. As I stated, the average item shipping cost is less than 81 cents, a 19% savings over those who ship first class and don't combine shipping. The shipping costs are more than realized in savings comparing eBay costs with what dealers charge retail. On the average ebay is 68% cheaper than what dealers ask on their web-sites making it the best deal going for collectors and shipping factors in very little in comparison. That 99 cent micro would sell for over
[meteorite-list] 53 planets, soon to be 80
By the if it is round, and not orbiting another planet, it's a planet definition, our solar system now has 53 planets, with the number soon to jump to 80. I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices of schoolchildren suddenly crying out in terror. (see the site to see the charts) http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/whatsaplanet/howmanplanets.html How many planets are there? While most people would answer that there are 9 or perhaps 10 planets, a proposal by the International Astronomical Union that will be voted on soon would significantly increase the number of objects that astronomers call planets. The proposal is to call any object that is large enough to make gravity cause it to become round a planet. How many planets would this make? The nine planets that everyone knows are all round, so they are clearly planets. Ceres, the largest asteroid, is also round and would become a planet (the fifth). The big question, then, is how many new planets are there in the Kuiper belt, a region of rocky/icy bodies beyond Neptune, and the home of Pluto and 2003 UB313 (the 10th planet). While we can't see most of the objects in the Kuiper belt well enough to determine whether they are round or not, we can estimate how big an object has to be before it becomes round and therefore how many objects in the Kuiper belt are likely round. In the asteroid belt Ceres, with a diameter of 900 km, is the only object large enough to be round, so somewhere around 900 km is a good cutoff for rocky bodies like asteroids. Kuiper belt objects have a lot of ice in their interiors, though. Ice is not as hard as rock, so it less easily withstands the force of gravity, and it takes less force to make an ice ball round. The best estimate for how big an icy body needs to be to become round comes from looking at icy satellites of the giant planets. The smallest body that is generally round is Saturn's satellite Mimas, which has a diameter of about 400 km. Several satellites which have diameters around 200 km are not round. So somewhere between 200 and 400 km an icy body becomes round. Objects with more ice will become round at smaller sizes while those with less rock might be bigger. We will take 400 km as a reasonable lower limit and assume that anything larger than 400 km in the Kuiper belt is round, and thus a planet. How many objects larger than 400 km are there in the Kuiper belt? We can't answer this question precisely, because we don't know the sizes of more than a handful of Kuiper belt objects (for an explanation why, see the discussion on the size of 2003 UB313), but, again, we can make a reasonable guess. If we assume that the typical small Kuiper belt object reflects 10% of the sunlight that hits its surface we know how bright a 400 km object would be in the Kuiper belt. As of late August 2006, 44 objects this size or larger in the Kuiper belt (including, of course, 2003 UB313 and Pluto), and one (Sedna) in the region beyond the Kuiper belt. In addition our large ongoing Palomar survey has detected approximately 30 more objects of this size which are currently undergoing detailed study. We have not yet completed our survey of the Kuiper belt. Our best estimate is that a complete survey of the Kuiper belt would more than triple this number. For now, the number of known objects in the solar system which are likely to be round is 53, with the number jumping to 80 when the objects from our survey are announced, and to more than 200 when the Kuiper belt is fully surveyed. The large number of new planets in the solar system are very different from the previous 9 planets. Most are so small that they are smaller across than the distance from Los Angeles to San Francisco. They are so small that about 30,000 of them could fit inside the earth. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 53 planets, soon to be 80
OH YEA!!U HAHAHAHAH[YOU KNOW, SCAREY LAUGHING! Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] 53 planets, soon to be 80 By the if it is round, and not orbiting another planet, it's a planet definition, our solar system now has 53 planets, with the number soon to jump to 80. I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices of schoolchildren suddenly crying out in terror. (see the site to see the charts) http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/whatsaplanet/howmanplanets.html How many planets are there? While most people would answer that there are 9 or perhaps 10 planets, a proposal by the International Astronomical Union that will be voted on soon would significantly increase the number of objects that astronomers call planets. The proposal is to call any object that is large enough to make gravity cause it to become round a planet. How many planets would this make? The nine planets that everyone knows are all round, so they are clearly planets. Ceres, the largest asteroid, is also round and would become a planet (the fifth). The big question, then, is how many new planets are there in the Kuiper belt, a region of rocky/icy bodies beyond Neptune, and the home of Pluto and 2003 UB313 (the 10th planet). While we can't see most of the objects in the Kuiper belt well enough to determine whether they are round or not, we can estimate how big an object has to be before it becomes round and therefore how many objects in the Kuiper belt are likely round. In the asteroid belt Ceres, with a diameter of 900 km, is the only object large enough to be round, so somewhere around 900 km is a good cutoff for rocky bodies like asteroids. Kuiper belt objects have a lot of ice in their interiors, though. Ice is not as hard as rock, so it less easily withstands the force of gravity, and it takes less force to make an ice ball round. The best estimate for how big an icy body needs to be to become round comes from looking at icy satellites of the giant planets. The smallest body that is generally round is Saturn's satellite Mimas, which has a diameter of about 400 km. Several satellites which have diameters around 200 km are not round. So somewhere between 200 and 400 km an icy body becomes round. Objects with more ice will become round at smaller sizes while those with less rock might be bigger. We will take 400 km as a reasonable lower limit and assume that anything larger than 400 km in the Kuiper belt is round, and thus a planet. How many objects larger than 400 km are there in the Kuiper belt? We can't answer this question precisely, because we don't know the sizes of more than a handful of Kuiper belt objects (for an explanation why, see the discussion on the size of 2003 UB313), but, again, we can make a reasonable guess. If we assume that the typical small Kuiper belt object reflects 10% of the sunlight that hits its surface we know how bright a 400 km object would be in the Kuiper belt. As of late August 2006, 44 objects this size or larger in the Kuiper belt (including, of course, 2003 UB313 and Pluto), and one (Sedna) in the region beyond the Kuiper belt. In addition our large ongoing Palomar survey has detected approximately 30 more objects of this size which are currently undergoing detailed study. We have not yet completed our survey of the Kuiper belt. Our best estimate is that a complete survey of the Kuiper belt would more than triple this number. For now, the number of known objects in the solar system which are likely to be round is 53, with the number jumping to 80 when the objects from our survey are announced, and to more than 200 when the Kuiper belt is fully surveyed. The large number of new planets in the solar system are very different from the previous 9 planets. Most are so small that they are smaller across than the distance from Los Angeles to San Francisco. They are so small that about 30,000 of them could fit inside the earth. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12-- MikeBrown's view
Hi, Darren, List, SIZE: Two satellites, Ganymede (5262 km) and Titan (5150 km), are bigger than the planet Mercury (4878 km). Seven satellites are bigger than Pluto (2320 km): Callisto (4800 km), Io (3630 km), Our Moon (3474 km), Europa (3138 km) and Triton (2706 km), in addition to Ganymede and Titan. COMPOSITION: (I think) Ganymede, Callisto, Io, Europa and Triton (and Ceres) are Plutonic bodies in composition. I suspect Titan is also, but uniquely volatile rich (like all the Saturn system). The Moon is clearly just doing its own thing... NOMENCLATURE: Yes, many satellites are planetary bodies, in the physical compositional and size sense. They are worlds, no doubt about it. And I mean that literally; that's what I call'em: WORLDS. So, I organize my head thusly: Planetary Bodies (Worlds) that orbit the Sun are PLANETS. Planetary Bodies (Worlds) that orbit a Planet are SATELLITES. Bodies that are too small, too irregular to be Planets are PARKING LOTS. No, wait, that's not right! OK, try again: Planetary Bodies (Worlds) that orbit the Sun are PLANETS. Planetary Bodies (Worlds) that orbit a Planet are SATELLITES. Bodies that are planetary in composition but too small and too irregular to be Planets are PLANETOIDS, or as Chris' everyday speakers of English call them, ROCKS. Doesn't matter what they go 'round. I try to think ahead in shaping my definitions. I want them to last. It's 2258. You're living on The Moon. You're bored. You've done all the Lunar sports. The Lunar scenery is all boringly the same. Lunar society is stodgy and settled, way too conservative and old-fashioned (they've been there for like, forever.) Then you notice your neighbor clearing out his place, not just moving stuff or cleaning house, but sweating it down to the 200 kg limit for an interplanetary move. You are envious. He's going to the new Titan colony (no more vacuum suits like the Moon) or maybe Ganymede, the richest World in the System. You strike up a conversation, Heading out for a new World, huh? He waves his hand disgustedly, Nah, I just got transferred to Vesta -- it ain't nothing but a Rock. Hardly any gravity, perpetual water shortages, a grimy industrial backwater (without the water). No wonder he's pissed... Suddenly, the Moon doesn't seem so bad. Sure, you learn to be careful with water, but nobody runs out. Yeah, the scenery is stark, but then you remember your last trip to that resort in the Lunar Apennines and the view down almost 20,000 feet to the Mare. And people on the Moon are basically friendly, helpful, easy-going, like one big small town, not sour and grim like, well, Vestans. It may be a small World, but it's no Rock! Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12-- MikeBrown's view That would make Caltech researcher Mike Brown, who found 2003 UB313, formally the discoverer of the 12th planet. But he thinks it's a lousy idea. It's flattering to be considered discoverer of the 12th planet, Brown said in a telephone interview. He applauded the committee's efforts but said the overall proposal is a complete mess. By his count, the definition means there are already 53 known planets in our solar system, with countless more to be discovered. Brown and another expert said the proposal, being put forth Wednesday at the IAU General Assembly meeting in Prague, is not logical. For example, Brown said, it does not make sense to consider Ceres and Charon planets and not call our moon (which is bigger than both) a planet. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14364833/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: QI
Hi All, As long as we're having fun deciding how many planets there are, a related (and equally controversial) subject came up more than once on the British show QI (Quite Interesting): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmYyGyGEV8 It's a pity we don't have anything comparable to watch here in the States... ;-) --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Lotsa Cool Stuff - eBay
Dear List Members, I just listed about 50 eBay auctions, most of which are larger than normally offered for those of you who like the bigger specimens. Unfortunately I could not include any Buy it Now' options as I will be out of town while the auctions run so on some I have a nice starting price, whereas others start at just 99 cents. I will not be able to answer any emails during this time so if you want Priority Mail, combined shipping, padded envelopes, wooden crate or packed in aerogel and shipped by helicopter, just email prior to making payment after the auctions end next Wednesday and I will be happy to quote your actual shipping amount for the way you specify. To find all that I have available this week, go to eBay and search for items by seller, NaturesVault. Best regards and Thank You for bidding and/or looking, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi all - Everybody loved Clyde, so they don't want to take the honor of discovering a planet away from him. But for the future, making him the discoverer of the first KBO would not be that much of a demotion, and might be a raise - that is the FIRST KBO. Minor Planets are those located between Mars and Jupiter at some point in their orbits, plus a few that are betweeen the Earth and Jupiter. I hope this clears everything up. Now while they're all together there, do any of these guys and gals know where the 64 fragments of Schwassmann Wachmann 3 are going to be in 2022? good hunting, Ed --- Larry Lebofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Chris: Since your two posts on this subjsetc, I think some of the responders have gotten a little out of hand and think that they know more than everyone else. 1. This is the second committee to have dealt with the issue of determining a definition of a planet. 2. A lot of the discussion of the second committee was based heavily on what the first committee did. 3. A lot of effort was put into the formation of this committee to get a crosssection of the community from a variety of countries and included a premier science writer and an astronomy historian. To some of you listening, do you think that in the two or three milliseconds that you thought about what was proposed by this IAU committee that you are better qualified to come up with a solution? 4. Now that I have vented my splean, I will respond to your emails, Chris. 5. Yes, the IAU does have the authority to make such decisions! They are the organization recognized by ALL astronomers as the organization who can do such things. They OK the names of asteroids and comets and are the organization who came up with the 88 constellations that we have today. 6. Which brings me back to your second (I think) email. First a side note to Ed, I think (am losing track of the emails, I dumped enough on Sterling). Granted there are only 7 continents and 7 seas, should we limit ourselves to 9 US states because that is all you can remember or 9 countries (I will not go there)? 7. I have spent nearly two decades doing science education (3.5 doing science) and one of the most important things that we can teach are kids is that science is dynamic and that numbers change. When I grew up there were 32 moons in the Solar System and no extra solar planets (and no Kuiper Belt Objects). However, I have changes what I teach as we learn more. That is the true nature of science. If you were teaching in 1930 would you have left the Solar System with 8 planets? or in the early 1700s, kept the Solar System at 6 planets? Traditionally, the Earth is the center of the universe, why not let well enough alone? Get a little off track, sorry. 8. A lot of effort and a lot of thought went into this decision both from a SCIENTIFIC (not technical) perspective and from an historical perspective. I know all of the people on the first committee and many of the people on the second one and I have respect for them and for their decision. While this is only a proposal to the IAU General Assembly and may change before next week (doubt there will be much of a change), I think that you are doing a disservice to your students by telling them that there are only nine planets (it is all over the news, how can they miss it). Chris, if you want to continue this discussion offline, please feel free to contact me. Larry -- Dr. Larry A. Lebofsky Senior Research Scientist Co-editor, Meteorite If you give a man a fish, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory you feed him for a day. 1541 East University If you teach a man to fish, University of Arizonayou feed him for a lifetime. Tucson, AZ 85721-0063 ~Chinese Proverb Phone: 520-621-6947 FAX:520-621-8364 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MOSS meteorite link, webpage up.
Hi everyone, well, I have loaded a webpage I rapidly built using some photos that Morten Bilet was kind enough to send me until my own rolls of film arrive from Sweden next week sometime. http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/moss.htm you can see the impact site and where we found our meteorite. some pieces are listed for sale, but I have many more although they are selling very fast. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
Hi, E.P., List Clyde was a great guy. Mike Brown's probably a great guy, too. He's done a great job of finding, at any rate. The Minor Planet numbers are all over the System and have been for decades. Orcus, Quaoar, and Sedna all have Minor Planet numbers, the Trojans, Chiron, an asteroid that goes all the way out to Oortville with an aphelion of over 1000 AU. They're everywhere. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Larry Lebofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 Hi all - Everybody loved Clyde, so they don't want to take the honor of discovering a planet away from him. But for the future, making him the discoverer of the first KBO would not be that much of a demotion, and might be a raise - that is the FIRST KBO. Minor Planets are those located between Mars and Jupiter at some point in their orbits, plus a few that are betweeen the Earth and Jupiter. I hope this clears everything up. Now while they're all together there, do any of these guys and gals know where the 64 fragments of Schwassmann Wachmann 3 are going to be in 2022? good hunting, Ed --- Larry Lebofsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Chris: Since your two posts on this subjsetc, I think some of the responders have gotten a little out of hand and think that they know more than everyone else. 1. This is the second committee to have dealt with the issue of determining a definition of a planet. 2. A lot of the discussion of the second committee was based heavily on what the first committee did. 3. A lot of effort was put into the formation of this committee to get a crosssection of the community from a variety of countries and included a premier science writer and an astronomy historian. To some of you listening, do you think that in the two or three milliseconds that you thought about what was proposed by this IAU committee that you are better qualified to come up with a solution? 4. Now that I have vented my splean, I will respond to your emails, Chris. 5. Yes, the IAU does have the authority to make such decisions! They are the organization recognized by ALL astronomers as the organization who can do such things. They OK the names of asteroids and comets and are the organization who came up with the 88 constellations that we have today. 6. Which brings me back to your second (I think) email. First a side note to Ed, I think (am losing track of the emails, I dumped enough on Sterling). Granted there are only 7 continents and 7 seas, should we limit ourselves to 9 US states because that is all you can remember or 9 countries (I will not go there)? 7. I have spent nearly two decades doing science education (3.5 doing science) and one of the most important things that we can teach are kids is that science is dynamic and that numbers change. When I grew up there were 32 moons in the Solar System and no extra solar planets (and no Kuiper Belt Objects). However, I have changes what I teach as we learn more. That is the true nature of science. If you were teaching in 1930 would you have left the Solar System with 8 planets? or in the early 1700s, kept the Solar System at 6 planets? Traditionally, the Earth is the center of the universe, why not let well enough alone? Get a little off track, sorry. 8. A lot of effort and a lot of thought went into this decision both from a SCIENTIFIC (not technical) perspective and from an historical perspective. I know all of the people on the first committee and many of the people on the second one and I have respect for them and for their decision. While this is only a proposal to the IAU General Assembly and may change before next week (doubt there will be much of a change), I think that you are doing a disservice to your students by telling them that there are only nine planets (it is all over the news, how can they miss it). Chris, if you want to continue this discussion offline, please feel free to contact me. Larry -- Dr. Larry A. Lebofsky Senior Research Scientist Co-editor, Meteorite If you give a man a fish, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory you feed him for a day. 1541 East University If you teach a man to fish, University of Arizonayou feed him for a lifetime. Tucson, AZ 85721-0063 ~Chinese Proverb Phone: 520-621-6947 FAX:520-621-8364 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
[meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Moss meteorite sales
Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didnt go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Translated reports reported to the List state that these meteorites were stolen. I am just making sure since the original finder of the cement factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat less. It is always good to double check these things as you know from Park Forest. I hope you got permission in writing is all I have to say. My days of chasing falls in over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the initial lab results do out? Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling cheaper. Why do you say The origional finder While Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet from each other, so I would say we are both origional finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park Forest, and you found nothing. Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress in your life if you stayed out of my business. Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. Good night. Mike Farmer --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Translated reports reported to the List state that these meteorites were stolen. I am just making sure since the original finder of the cement factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat less. It is always good to double check these things as you know from Park Forest. I hope you got permission in writing is all I have to say. My days of chasing falls in over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the initial lab results do out? Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling cheaper. Why do you say The origional finder While Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet from each other, so I would say we are both origional finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park Forest, and you found nothing. Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress in your life if you stayed out of my business. Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. Good night. Mike Farmer --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Translated reports reported to the List state that these meteorites were stolen. I am just making sure since the original finder of the cement factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat less. It is always good to double check these things as you know from Park Forest. I hope you got permission in writing is all I have to say. My days of chasing falls in over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the initial lab results do out? Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Who is Mike Mazur?, he is the one offering a better deal. Lets see your written permission. Any treasure hunter and professional knows that you need it in writing to avoid future conflict which happens all of time. If the owner(s) of the cement company knew you were seeking $200.00 a gram or $70,000.00 he may be inclined to retract any verbal permission given. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling cheaper. Why do you say The origional finder While Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet from each other, so I would say we are both origional finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park Forest, and you found nothing. Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress in your life if you stayed out of my business. Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. Good night. Mike Farmer --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Translated reports reported to the List state that these meteorites were stolen. I am just making sure since the original finder of the cement factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat less. It is always good to double check these things as you know from Park Forest. I hope you got permission in writing is all I have to say. My days of chasing falls in over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the initial lab results do out? Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
YAWN,, Adam, I love how you think you are the king of the mole hill, you are not however. Get a life, take your request for written permission and put it where your hot air seems to come from. List members, look how long it took before Adam jumped in with this crap, about 2 hours is all it took. Adam, get a life dude, you need help. Michal Mazur can do whatever he wants, it is his business. He is also selling $20,000 pieces, so if it is cheaper, go for it. I am here, in the USA, I can ship now, or you can wait on someone else to make up their mind what they want to do. Not my problem. When permission is given it can not be revoked 3 weeks later. Even your lawyers should be able to tell you that. Keep it up though, it shows this entire list what an IMCA board member is about. Michael Farmer --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is Mike Mazur?, he is the one offering a better deal. Lets see your written permission. Any treasure hunter and professional knows that you need it in writing to avoid future conflict which happens all of time. If the owner(s) of the cement company knew you were seeking $200.00 a gram or $70,000.00 he may be inclined to retract any verbal permission given. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling cheaper. Why do you say The origional finder While Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet from each other, so I would say we are both origional finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park Forest, and you found nothing. Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress in your life if you stayed out of my business. Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. Good night. Mike Farmer --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Translated reports reported to the List state that these meteorites were stolen. I am just making sure since the original finder of the cement factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat less. It is always good to double check these things as you know from Park Forest. I hope you got permission in writing is all I have to say. My days of chasing falls in over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the initial lab results do out? Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS meteorite link, webpage up.
Hi Mike, Thanks for the great pictures! Sonny -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 4:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS meteorite link, webpage up. Hi everyone, well, I have loaded a webpage I rapidly built using some photos that Morten Bilet was kind enough to send me until my own rolls of film arrive from Sweden next week sometime. http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/moss.htm you can see the impact site and where we found our meteorite. some pieces are listed for sale, but I have many more although they are selling very fast. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Mike, This has nothing to do with the IMCA. When I ran for election I stated that I do not always agree with dealers, especially when it comes to ethics. On the other hand, if I were wrong I would promptly admit it which I have done a few times. I also stated I will go after anything that does not smell right. Remember this, the status of limitations runs out on a certain gag order in a mere year and a half and I am ready and willing to talk. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:30 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite YAWN,, Adam, I love how you think you are the king of the mole hill, you are not however. Get a life, take your request for written permission and put it where your hot air seems to come from. List members, look how long it took before Adam jumped in with this crap, about 2 hours is all it took. Adam, get a life dude, you need help. Michal Mazur can do whatever he wants, it is his business. He is also selling $20,000 pieces, so if it is cheaper, go for it. I am here, in the USA, I can ship now, or you can wait on someone else to make up their mind what they want to do. Not my problem. When permission is given it can not be revoked 3 weeks later. Even your lawyers should be able to tell you that. Keep it up though, it shows this entire list what an IMCA board member is about. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:25 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Who is Mike Mazur?, he is the one offering a better deal. Lets see your written permission. Any treasure hunter and professional knows that you need it in writing to avoid future conflict which happens all of time. If the owner(s) of the cement company knew you were seeking $200.00 a gram or $70,000.00 he may be inclined to retract any verbal permission given. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling cheaper. Why do you say The origional finder While Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet from each other, so I would say we are both origional finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park Forest, and you found nothing. Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress in your life if you stayed out of my business. Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. Good night. Mike Farmer --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Translated reports reported to the List state that these meteorites were stolen. I am just making sure since the original finder of the cement factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat less. It is always good to double check these things as you know from Park Forest. I hope you got permission in writing is all I have to say. My days of chasing falls in over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the initial lab results do out? Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM To:
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: QI
Aye aye Robert! Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:25 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: QI Hi All, As long as we're having fun deciding how many planets there are, a related (and equally controversial) subject came up more than once on the British show QI (Quite Interesting): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmYyGyGEV8 It's a pity we don't have anything comparable to watch here in the States... ;-) --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12--MikeBrown's view
everyday speakers of English call them, ROCKS. Doesn't matter what they go 'round. Priceless. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12--MikeBrown's view Hi, Darren, List, SIZE: Two satellites, Ganymede (5262 km) and Titan (5150 km), are bigger than the planet Mercury (4878 km). Seven satellites are bigger than Pluto (2320 km): Callisto (4800 km), Io (3630 km), Our Moon (3474 km), Europa (3138 km) and Triton (2706 km), in addition to Ganymede and Titan. COMPOSITION: (I think) Ganymede, Callisto, Io, Europa and Triton (and Ceres) are Plutonic bodies in composition. I suspect Titan is also, but uniquely volatile rich (like all the Saturn system). The Moon is clearly just doing its own thing... NOMENCLATURE: Yes, many satellites are planetary bodies, in the physical compositional and size sense. They are worlds, no doubt about it. And I mean that literally; that's what I call'em: WORLDS. So, I organize my head thusly: Planetary Bodies (Worlds) that orbit the Sun are PLANETS. Planetary Bodies (Worlds) that orbit a Planet are SATELLITES. Bodies that are too small, too irregular to be Planets are PARKING LOTS. No, wait, that's not right! OK, try again: Planetary Bodies (Worlds) that orbit the Sun are PLANETS. Planetary Bodies (Worlds) that orbit a Planet are SATELLITES. Bodies that are planetary in composition but too small and too irregular to be Planets are PLANETOIDS, or as Chris' everyday speakers of English call them, ROCKS. Doesn't matter what they go 'round. I try to think ahead in shaping my definitions. I want them to last. It's 2258. You're living on The Moon. You're bored. You've done all the Lunar sports. The Lunar scenery is all boringly the same. Lunar society is stodgy and settled, way too conservative and old-fashioned (they've been there for like, forever.) Then you notice your neighbor clearing out his place, not just moving stuff or cleaning house, but sweating it down to the 200 kg limit for an interplanetary move. You are envious. He's going to the new Titan colony (no more vacuum suits like the Moon) or maybe Ganymede, the richest World in the System. You strike up a conversation, Heading out for a new World, huh? He waves his hand disgustedly, Nah, I just got transferred to Vesta -- it ain't nothing but a Rock. Hardly any gravity, perpetual water shortages, a grimy industrial backwater (without the water). No wonder he's pissed... Suddenly, the Moon doesn't seem so bad. Sure, you learn to be careful with water, but nobody runs out. Yeah, the scenery is stark, but then you remember your last trip to that resort in the Lunar Apennines and the view down almost 20,000 feet to the Mare. And people on the Moon are basically friendly, helpful, easy-going, like one big small town, not sour and grim like, well, Vestans. It may be a small World, but it's no Rock! Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12-- MikeBrown's view That would make Caltech researcher Mike Brown, who found 2003 UB313, formally the discoverer of the 12th planet. But he thinks it's a lousy idea. It's flattering to be considered discoverer of the 12th planet, Brown said in a telephone interview. He applauded the committee's efforts but said the overall proposal is a complete mess. By his count, the definition means there are already 53 known planets in our solar system, with countless more to be discovered. Brown and another expert said the proposal, being put forth Wednesday at the IAU General Assembly meeting in Prague, is not logical. For example, Brown said, it does not make sense to consider Ceres and Charon planets and not call our moon (which is bigger than both) a planet. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14364833/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Moss meteorite sales
Mike: I do not recall saying it was illegal after you had found one. I was merely asking the list if anyone knew the hunting laws in Norway as I was strongly considering flying over. Several other hunters told me to that it was illegal to remove ANY cultural property. Since there was confusion over the laws, I abandoned the trip. Mr. Mazur has done his homework and it appears to be OK...for now. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn’t go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Moss meteorite sales
The first post was before you had anything in your posession, Mike. It was mererly a heads up to you. Find me the second message that you say I posted after you found it, becasue I cannot in the archives. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: Actually Matt, Here are the emails you wrote saying that it was illegal. Looks pretty cut and dry to me. Matt Morgan mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com Sun Jul 23 13:52:24 EDT 2006 Previous message: [meteorite-list] New Met Friend Next message: [meteorite-list] Norway here we come! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] +++Mike: You may be able to touch the pieces, but it is illegal to remove them from Norway. Which is a real bummer. Be careful. Matt You also wrote after I posted that we found a piece that it was illegal to remove from the country. That is not true. Michael Farmer Mike: I do not recall saying it was illegal after you had found one. I was merely asking the list if anyone knew the hunting laws in Norway as I was strongly considering flying over. Several other hunters told me to that it was illegal to remove ANY cultural property. Since there was confusion over the laws, I abandoned the trip. Mr. Mazur has done his homework and it appears to be OK...for now. Matt __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Moss meteorite sales
If it is not illegal, then my sources were wrong. You and Mazur gathered more facts that I had access to. Point was you mentioned my name and didn't quote how I said it. That pisses me off. It had nothing to do with jealousy, I am not that kind of person; am quite happy with what I have. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: No, I cant find it either, but you did not ask the list, you SAID IT WAS ILLEGAL. It is not, so you were wrong, flat out. Mike --- Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first post was before you had anything in your posession, Mike. It was mererly a heads up to you. Find me the second message that you say I posted after you found it, becasue I cannot in the archives. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: Actually Matt, Here are the emails you wrote saying that it was illegal. Looks pretty cut and dry to me. Matt Morgan mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com Sun Jul 23 13:52:24 EDT 2006 Previous message: [meteorite-list] New Met Friend Next message: [meteorite-list] Norway here we come! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] +++Mike: You may be able to touch the pieces, but it is illegal to remove them from Norway. Which is a real bummer. Be careful. Matt You also wrote after I posted that we found a piece that it was illegal to remove from the country. That is not true. Michael Farmer Mike: I do not recall saying it was illegal after you had found one. I was merely asking the list if anyone knew the hunting laws in Norway as I was strongly considering flying over. Several other hunters told me to that it was illegal to remove ANY cultural property. Since there was confusion over the laws, I abandoned the trip. Mr. Mazur has done his homework and it appears to be OK...for now. Matt __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Moss meteorite sales
It is just amazing though, that every time I go somewhere, people come out of the woodwork making statements and accusations. It smells of jealousy, since you hardly ever post to the list, but jump so soon to say what I am doing is illegal, which the museum of Norway has said in it's own words, it is not. It offends me, and pisses me off quite frankly, since you stated it was illegal, just because your sources told you it was. I suggest you find new sources since they seem to have no idea what they are talking about. Michael Farmer --- Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it is not illegal, then my sources were wrong. You and Mazur gathered more facts that I had access to. Point was you mentioned my name and didn't quote how I said it. That pisses me off. It had nothing to do with jealousy, I am not that kind of person; am quite happy with what I have. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: No, I cant find it either, but you did not ask the list, you SAID IT WAS ILLEGAL. It is not, so you were wrong, flat out. Mike --- Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first post was before you had anything in your posession, Mike. It was mererly a heads up to you. Find me the second message that you say I posted after you found it, becasue I cannot in the archives. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: Actually Matt, Here are the emails you wrote saying that it was illegal. Looks pretty cut and dry to me. Matt Morgan mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com Sun Jul 23 13:52:24 EDT 2006 Previous message: [meteorite-list] New Met Friend Next message: [meteorite-list] Norway here we come! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] +++Mike: You may be able to touch the pieces, but it is illegal to remove them from Norway. Which is a real bummer. Be careful. Matt You also wrote after I posted that we found a piece that it was illegal to remove from the country. That is not true. Michael Farmer Mike: I do not recall saying it was illegal after you had found one. I was merely asking the list if anyone knew the hunting laws in Norway as I was strongly considering flying over. Several other hunters told me to that it was illegal to remove ANY cultural property. Since there was confusion over the laws, I abandoned the trip. Mr. Mazur has done his homework and it appears to be OK...for now. Matt __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re:New Impact Crater
AL: Have a look at: http://www.shattercones.biz/ifsgforum/ and http://web.eps.utk.edu/ifsg.htm ... that may be of interest for you. Chuck Charles O'DaleMeeting ChairOttawa RASChttp://www.ottawa.rasc.ca/articles/odale_chuck/earth_craters/index.html * Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:21:59 -0400From: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [meteorite-list] New Impact CraterTo: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Try Again.Greetings,Anyone interested in new meteorcraters should check this link out. Not only a new one but from acometary impact. Nice for the researcher to post it on a forum rather than the usual circles. You bethe judge.http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=f9ca307aeb60243c16bc1d5350182090showtopic=7651AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] US Regulations Governing Antarctic Meteorites
Hi Sterling, all - an interesting evening - Consider using the resources of the antartic to back a UN currency, which could be spent by the UN for disaster relief or development. That's one way to keep the bullets from flying. We'll probably have to do the same thing with the far-sea-floor and with far-ocean fish stocks. good hunting, Ed --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Ron, List, I think we all knew the sale of any national Antarctic rocks from space would land us in a non-countryclub federal pokey for a long, long time. My point was that such things are governed by totally arbitrary fiat. Nothing could demonstrate that better than these documents. Of course, everything is being done in Antarctica, by all nations concerned, out of the pure desire to the right thing -- now. No exploitation, no national claims, no nothing -- hands off! Well, OK, thousands of humans are there doing things all the time, but their motives are pure and their hands are clean (and scientific) -- and it's true! Fast forward to 2118. The population of the planet is 18.7 billion people, almost all living at the just-barely level, crippled economically by sealevel rises and vast displaced populations. Liquid fossil fuel is still available -- if you're a trillionaire. 17,432 nuclear power plants, old and desperately overloaded, attempt to keep the World Grid on-line 4 hours a day per area. The predominate source of energy is coal, something the world still has -- and 90% of that resource now remaining is located in Antarctica. http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/050692.html No, no, I'm all wrong. The year 2118 is a human paradise on Earth, with 8 billion healthy well-educated prosperous people. Endless power pours from the satellite solar stations. The species Man lives on three worlds of the solar system. The flow of resources from the mining the asteroids makes scarcity of any kind a nightmare from the bad old days. In Scenario One, the Antarctic Treaty has the life expectancy of the proverbial snowball, and it doesn't matter a bit that it's a BIG snowball. The provision banning mineral exploitation expires in 2048. Once the supertankers are collecting Ross Shelf oil and gas, can the coal mines be far away? Unlike other world powers, the United States has made no territorial claims in Antarctica, though it reserves the right to do so, nor does it recognize the claims of any other state. Handy, that last part, about not recognizing existing claims... How much regard will the world of 2118, Scenario One version, have for a 175 year old piece of paper? Show me an 1849 idealistic treaty that's still enforced today. Ask your local native American tribe... Back to the present day. God did not scribe these regulations on a slab of basalt on a mountain in the Sinai. A Committee did. One which asserts, by the way, that they are not bound by the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, nor the Unfunded Mandate Reform Act of 1995. In particular, they certify that this rule will not have significant impact on a substantial number of small businesses. If I've got that last part right, they are saying that these stones have no commercial value to a small business. Do the meteorite dealers on this List agree that access to Antarctic stones would be economically worthless to their small businesses? One Congressman slips one sentence into any fat, 834-page Bill that needs passing and which nobody will ever read before voting on (they don't, you know) that says, Under the provision of the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic and all other applicable agreements, meteorites are not to be considered mineral resources, and their collection, curation, and ownership shall be made available to any citizen of the United States, its Territories and Possessions. And even if some Congressmen read it, what's the big deal? Sounds good to me... Then it's time to write new Regs, as directed by the ever- wise Congress of these United States. Who here can afford one measly Congressman? No, don't do it! Even if your free-wheeling, free- enterprise Congressman is willing to do it for free. What I was proposing was a change that came FROM the NSF and the institutions and the scientists, not an end-run around them... Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:16 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] US Regulations Governing Antarctic Meteorites http://www.nsf.gov/od/opp/antarct/meteorite_regs.jsp U.S. Regulations Governing Antarctic Meteorites [Federal Register: March 31, 2003 (Volume 68, Number 61)] [Rules and
[meteorite-list] Meteor Shape
The other night I saw a meteortumbling and I could clearly see it's shape and general outline. It burned out about 50 degrees from my postion where 90 would be directly overhead.How close was this meteor?The American Meteor Society is saying it landed miles away but other professional astronomers are saying it was close.Thought comments?Cordially,Rick Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] the new planets
I guess with all the new planets we are about to get,For possible meteorites,It looks like the best bet will be CERES.Would that not be a gas? steve arnold,chicago,usa!!Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com Illinois meteorites,since 1999! Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss meteorite sales
Ok, today was a rough day with paying bills, taking care of the usual things after a 3 week absence, and trying to collect my precious cargo from Sweden without success! I will focus on selling some of the Moss meteorite tomorrow. I must recover some of the nearly $7000 I spent on the trip to Norway and Sweden. Anyone who thinks meteorite hunting is cheap needs to try it sometime! I will prefer to do private sales as I have too many small pieces to photograph and put on the website as I normally do. I know from the response to my emails over the last couple of weeks I will have most of the material sold rapidly. I have too many emails from the trip to go through quickly, so Anyone wanting a piece needs to email me ASAP with the amount they want to spend and I can try to accommodate them. I will offer it for $200.00 per gram. I have many pieces with fusion crust, but that will run out fast, so if you want crust, I need to know like now. Anyone who thinks this is a high price needs to think again. I have already sold my largest piece for that amount, and Bob Haag and I had lunch today and he also wont sell for less as he bought his pieces. There are only 5 witnessed falls of CO3 meteorites in the world, Moss if confirmed as a CO3 will make that #6. So here we go, let the sales begin! Moss Norway, fell July 14th, 2006 at ~10:15 am in the Ostfold region including the towns of Rygge and Moss. So far, just over 3 kilograms known. 50% of this is already in Museum hands and totally out of the running for sales. After a month of searching by over 20 meteorite hunters and dealers, I highly doubt that much more will be recovered if any at all. Michael Farmer By the way, I will build a great webpage with photos as soon as my film arrives from Sweden. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales.
$200/gr. same price offer to me for the 1006 gr. piecesa bit exaggerated calculate for under this price I have Vigarano or Mighei and for $50-100/gr. I have Murchisonfor $200 I have Cold Bokkeveld .for not speack of Kainsaza italian museum have ask to me to find a piece of this meteorite, when I have say the price they have say: WHAT? Matteo --- Eric Twelker [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: I will have some Moss too -- but probably not until around the end of the month. I expect that collectors will be able to get pieces for some time. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com Ok, today was a rough day with paying bills, taking care of the usual things after a 3 week absence, and trying to collect my precious cargo from Sweden without success! I will focus on selling some of the Moss meteorite tomorrow. I must recover some of the nearly $7000 I spent on the trip to Norway and Sweden. Anyone who thinks meteorite hunting is cheap needs to try it sometime! I will prefer to do private sales as I have too many small pieces to photograph and put on the website as I normally do. I know from the response to my emails over the last couple of weeks I will have most of the material sold rapidly. I have too many emails from the trip to go through quickly, so Anyone wanting a piece needs to email me ASAP with the amount they want to spend and I can try to accommodate them. I will offer it for $200.00 per gram. I have many pieces with fusion crust, but that will run out fast, so if you want crust, I need to know like now. Anyone who thinks this is a high price needs to think again. I have already sold my largest piece for that amount, and Bob Haag and I had lunch today and he also wont sell for less as he bought his pieces. There are only 5 witnessed falls of CO3 meteorites in the world, Moss if confirmed as a CO3 will make that #6. So here we go, let the sales begin! Moss Norway, fell July 14th, 2006 at ~10:15 am in the Ostfold region including the towns of Rygge and Moss. So far, just over 3 kilograms known. 50% of this is already in Museum hands and totally out of the running for sales. After a month of searching by over 20 meteorite hunters and dealers, I highly doubt that much more will be recovered if any at all. Michael Farmer By the way, I will build a great webpage with photos as soon as my film arrives from Sweden. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales.
every dealers sale the meteorites for the prices he want. Is not a law a dealer have to respect a price of another dealer. And sinceraly for me $200/gr. is to much, $100/gr. max its a ok price...or I have to sale my Siena piece for $8000/gr. only why its impossible find a piece, and TKW its many under the Moss meteorite? Matteo --- Eric Twelker [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Mike, I thought the list should have a better understanding of what is happening with Moss. I would guess that 2 to 3 kg or more will eventually be sold to collectors. The idea that if one doesn't jump now, one will never get any, is just wrong--a false impression broadcast on the list to sell one person's rocks. I am not going to quibble with your price, Mike. It may well be good. I too have a lot of money in this--it seems much more than you do. Of course I am interested in protecting my investment and recovering my money too. I appreciate your descriptions of the hunt and the other information you have provided. I wish I could have been there. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com That is quite rude Eric, trying to steal my customers for a new meteorite sale when I just returned after spending over $5000 getting it. You don't have it now, don't even know when you are getting it, and you jump in trying to squash my sales. I have never done such a thing to you, why do it to me? Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Twelker Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:37 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. I will have some Moss too -- but probably not until around the end of the month. I expect that collectors will be able to get pieces for some time. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com Ok, today was a rough day with paying bills, taking care of the usual things after a 3 week absence, and trying to collect my precious cargo from Sweden without success! I will focus on selling some of the Moss meteorite tomorrow. I must recover some of the nearly $7000 I spent on the trip to Norway and Sweden. Anyone who thinks meteorite hunting is cheap needs to try it sometime! I will prefer to do private sales as I have too many small pieces to photograph and put on the website as I normally do. I know from the response to my emails over the last couple of weeks I will have most of the material sold rapidly. I have too many emails from the trip to go through quickly, so Anyone wanting a piece needs to email me ASAP with the amount they want to spend and I can try to accommodate them. I will offer it for $200.00 per gram. I have many pieces with fusion crust, but that will run out fast, so if you want crust, I need to know like now. Anyone who thinks this is a high price needs to think again. I have already sold my largest piece for that amount, and Bob Haag and I had lunch today and he also wont sell for less as he bought his pieces. There are only 5 witnessed falls of CO3 meteorites in the world, Moss if confirmed as a CO3 will make that #6. So here we go, let the sales begin! Moss Norway, fell July 14th, 2006 at ~10:15 am in the Ostfold region including the towns of Rygge and Moss. So far, just over 3 kilograms known. 50% of this is already in Museum hands and totally out of the running for sales. After a month of searching by over 20 meteorite hunters and dealers, I highly doubt that much more will be recovered if any at all. Michael Farmer By the way, I will build a great webpage with photos as soon as my film arrives from Sweden. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Moss meteorite sales
fast or late I have a piece for the price I want, I am just in contact with a person in Norvay have soem pieces...Murchison have 250 kg. total mass? Where? Its max 100 kg. and calculate for $200/gr. I have Cold Bokkeveld. Many collectors I am in contact are of the same my idea, $200/gr. its a exaggerated priceno problem, I waith, the prices go down type many others recent falls, example Oum Dreyga, $12/gr. first pieces, now $2-3/gr. etc Matteo Really Matteo, $200 gram is too much? $100 gram max? Murchison has a total known weight of over 250 kilograms, I have no problem selling it for $100.00 per gram. As of now, there is barely 3 kilograms of this material. Perhaps one kilogram total on the market. Based on my sales in the last hour, $200 per gram must be a fair price. Don't worry about it Matteo, it seems you will not get any. It seems that you are never happy, either the market is in ruin or meteorites are overpriced. Which is it? Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:03 AM To: Eric Twelker; Michael Farmer; Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. every dealers sale the meteorites for the prices he want. Is not a law a dealer have to respect a price of another dealer. And sinceraly for me $200/gr. is to much, $100/gr. max its a ok price...or I have to sale my Siena piece for $8000/gr. only why its impossible find a piece, and TKW its many under the Moss meteorite? Matteo M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales.
How do you come up with that 2-3 kilos more will be available to collectors? There are 5 known stones, total recovered weight over only ~3.2 kilograms give or take a hundred grams. Of that material, I have 38 grams, 100 of which will no be sold. Morten Bilet already sold most of his to Bob Haag and a German. The two large complete stones are in the Oslo collection, not to be sold, and that leaves about ~1 kilogram in Norway, the owner of which wants $200.00 per gram for a 650 gram fragment. Where do you get them, 2 to 3 kilograms of material to be sold? Anyone with any experience knows that falls are always a fluid situation with material and prices. But with one month and again, over 25 veteran meteorite hunters having come and gone with the only find success being that of Morten Bilet and myself, I have little hope of more stones being found. I would think that those of us who were there would understand what is happening there a little more than those who were not. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: Eric Twelker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:24 AM To: Michael Farmer; Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. Mike, I thought the list should have a better understanding of what is happening with Moss. I would guess that 2 to 3 kg or more will eventually be sold to collectors. The idea that if one doesn't jump now, one will never get any, is just wrong--a false impression broadcast on the list to sell one person's rocks. I am not going to quibble with your price, Mike. It may well be good. I too have a lot of money in this--it seems much more than you do. Of course I am interested in protecting my investment and recovering my money too. I appreciate your descriptions of the hunt and the other information you have provided. I wish I could have been there. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com That is quite rude Eric, trying to steal my customers for a new meteorite sale when I just returned after spending over $5000 getting it. You don't have it now, don't even know when you are getting it, and you jump in trying to squash my sales. I have never done such a thing to you, why do it to me? Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Twelker Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:37 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. I will have some Moss too -- but probably not until around the end of the month. I expect that collectors will be able to get pieces for some time. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com Ok, today was a rough day with paying bills, taking care of the usual things after a 3 week absence, and trying to collect my precious cargo from Sweden without success! I will focus on selling some of the Moss meteorite tomorrow. I must recover some of the nearly $7000 I spent on the trip to Norway and Sweden. Anyone who thinks meteorite hunting is cheap needs to try it sometime! I will prefer to do private sales as I have too many small pieces to photograph and put on the website as I normally do. I know from the response to my emails over the last couple of weeks I will have most of the material sold rapidly. I have too many emails from the trip to go through quickly, so Anyone wanting a piece needs to email me ASAP with the amount they want to spend and I can try to accommodate them. I will offer it for $200.00 per gram. I have many pieces with fusion crust, but that will run out fast, so if you want crust, I need to know like now. Anyone who thinks this is a high price needs to think again. I have already sold my largest piece for that amount, and Bob Haag and I had lunch today and he also wont sell for less as he bought his pieces. There are only 5 witnessed falls of CO3 meteorites in the world, Moss if confirmed as a CO3 will make that #6. So here we go, let the sales begin! Moss Norway, fell July 14th, 2006 at ~10:15 am in the Ostfold region including the towns of Rygge and Moss. So far, just over 3 kilograms known. 50% of this is already in Museum hands and totally out of the running for sales. After a month of searching by over 20 meteorite hunters and dealers, I highly doubt that much more will be recovered if any at all. Michael Farmer By the way, I will build a great webpage with photos as soon as my film arrives from Sweden. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list
RE: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales.
Really Matteo, $200 gram is too much? $100 gram max? Murchison has a total known weight of over 250 kilograms, I have no problem selling it for $100.00 per gram. As of now, there is barely 3 kilograms of this material. Perhaps one kilogram total on the market. Based on my sales in the last hour, $200 per gram must be a fair price. Don't worry about it Matteo, it seems you will not get any. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:03 AM To: Eric Twelker; Michael Farmer; Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. every dealers sale the meteorites for the prices he want. Is not a law a dealer have to respect a price of another dealer. And sinceraly for me $200/gr. is to much, $100/gr. max its a ok price...or I have to sale my Siena piece for $8000/gr. only why its impossible find a piece, and TKW its many under the Moss meteorite? Matteo --- Eric Twelker [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Mike, I thought the list should have a better understanding of what is happening with Moss. I would guess that 2 to 3 kg or more will eventually be sold to collectors. The idea that if one doesn't jump now, one will never get any, is just wrong--a false impression broadcast on the list to sell one person's rocks. I am not going to quibble with your price, Mike. It may well be good. I too have a lot of money in this--it seems much more than you do. Of course I am interested in protecting my investment and recovering my money too. I appreciate your descriptions of the hunt and the other information you have provided. I wish I could have been there. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com That is quite rude Eric, trying to steal my customers for a new meteorite sale when I just returned after spending over $5000 getting it. You don't have it now, don't even know when you are getting it, and you jump in trying to squash my sales. I have never done such a thing to you, why do it to me? Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Twelker Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:37 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Carbonaceous Chondrite sales. I will have some Moss too -- but probably not until around the end of the month. I expect that collectors will be able to get pieces for some time. Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com Ok, today was a rough day with paying bills, taking care of the usual things after a 3 week absence, and trying to collect my precious cargo from Sweden without success! I will focus on selling some of the Moss meteorite tomorrow. I must recover some of the nearly $7000 I spent on the trip to Norway and Sweden. Anyone who thinks meteorite hunting is cheap needs to try it sometime! I will prefer to do private sales as I have too many small pieces to photograph and put on the website as I normally do. I know from the response to my emails over the last couple of weeks I will have most of the material sold rapidly. I have too many emails from the trip to go through quickly, so Anyone wanting a piece needs to email me ASAP with the amount they want to spend and I can try to accommodate them. I will offer it for $200.00 per gram. I have many pieces with fusion crust, but that will run out fast, so if you want crust, I need to know like now. Anyone who thinks this is a high price needs to think again. I have already sold my largest piece for that amount, and Bob Haag and I had lunch today and he also wont sell for less as he bought his pieces. There are only 5 witnessed falls of CO3 meteorites in the world, Moss if confirmed as a CO3 will make that #6. So here we go, let the sales begin! Moss Norway, fell July 14th, 2006 at ~10:15 am in the Ostfold region including the towns of Rygge and Moss. So far, just over 3 kilograms known. 50% of this is already in Museum hands and totally out of the running for sales. After a month of searching by over 20 meteorite hunters and dealers, I highly doubt that much more will be recovered if any at all. Michael Farmer By the way, I will build a great webpage with photos as soon as my film arrives from Sweden. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
RE: [meteorite-list] Beware of the two kinds of 'Moss'-material...
WOW, now where have I heard this before, the old my material is better than his material because his was rained on spiel! I went through this with Bensour, Thuathe, and Benguerir, now it seems with Moss. My meteorite was found on Sunday, July 30th. As you yourself right Bjorn, the heavy rains started AFTER July 30th. Can you please them tell us how something that started AFTER I picked up my pieces would affect my pieces? Is Norway some kind of time-travel country, where events that occur after something can affect the past? Theses pieces are about as pristine as they can be. There was a sprinkle or two in the area the day before, but it was barely enough to wet the car glass. If you want to wait to buy some material that may or may now show up, be my guest. Just dont buy into the BS as seems to the norm with all new falls now. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:54 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Beware of the two kinds of 'Moss'-material... Hello List, I think the buyers of the 'Moss'-meteorite should be aware of the fact that there are two kinds of material coming from the fall in Moss, Norway: 1) The freshest is the material that was not affected by the heavy rains from about the 30th of July. Before this it was all dry (and the farmers complained it was the driest summer in many decades). I was there myself in Moss only in the dry period. As you may know, only me and Mazur and another finder collected our material on the 19th, 23rd (and 24th). Se my erlier posting: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2006-August/186289.html (E.Twelker will also have this same material in some time - see his posts.) This is well before the rains started. This is also the only material from the biggest piece found. 2) The rest of the material that is available has been collected well after the rains started. One world class american meteorite classifier has seen both materials and has commented that the 'after the rains material' is clearly more oxidized. So to get the only existing original pristine material the only source is Mazur, myself (and later Twelker). Be aware also that this material can be a new group of carbonaceous meteorite as it contains small white CAIs, isolated olivine grains, but do not look quite like other COs. This might make 'Moss' the type specimen of a new group with one member? So, maybe the price is not very high for this material... Contact me off the list for price/weight and order information. (Tomorrow I will also have a page for this at: http://home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/060714/moss.html ) Best wishes, Bjørn Sørheim __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
So then why not ship first class? You are telling us that people who buy a meteorite from you on ebay for $0.99 cents and then pays $4.05 shipping is not being ripped off? Even if you are not keeping the money, it is just stupid to pay so much when it can be shipped for barely $.50 cents pluss $25 cents or so for the padded envelope. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:57 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, This statement is far from true: Anyone who charges $4.00 shipping for a micro in the USA is ripping off their customers. They are just trying to make money on the shipping. I charge $1.00 on 99% of the micors I sell on ebay. The exception is when the micro is valuable, like Lunar and Martian material that I need to track to ensure it isnt lost. Michael Farmer I only ship Priority Mail and charge exactly $4.05, the actual cost of the stamp. Most people PayPal payments including shipping. After PayPal takes their cut, I actually lose money on shipments. I combine on the average 5 items bringing down the customers' costs to just 81 cents an item. I combine over two auction sessions allowing them to bring shipping costs down even further. The buyer gets their items in 2 days without the breakage you get by shipping in padded envelopes. I have found, that overall Priority Mail is the only way to go and nobody is get ripped-off! Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
Nonsense, I have been on ebay for years before you Adam, I have shipped thousands of items. First class I have had maybe 10 losses in the last 10 years. Several items overseas have been lost, but that is neither here nor there. I combine shipping as well, as long as it can be safely shipped in a bubble envelope. Selling a 1 to 10 item then charging $4.05 shipping is not a good deal for anyone. Fine, you are not keeping the money. It still doubles the price of the item (or more) thus does not equal a good deal. Any time I see inflated shipping on ebay, I move on, I hate throwing my money away. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:07 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, Nobody is being ripped off! Breakage costs more than what is be saved by going first class. I have made thousands of shipments and have only had a couple items broken using Priority Mail which includes a sturdy box. Only two items were ever permanently lost as opposed to dozens using first class. Customers are actually paying more by going with dealers who do not combine shipping and use first class. As I stated, the average item shipping cost is less than 81 cents, a 19% savings over those who ship first class and don't combine shipping. The shipping costs are more than realized in savings comparing eBay costs with what dealers charge retail. On the average ebay is 68% cheaper than what dealers ask on their web-sites making it the best deal going for collectors and shipping factors in very little in comparison. That 99 cent micro would sell for over $5.00 in a retail setting! Enough said, Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? So then why not ship first class? You are telling us that people who buy a meteorite from you on ebay for $0.99 cents and then pays $4.05 shipping is not being ripped off? Even if you are not keeping the money, it is just stupid to pay so much when it can be shipped for barely $.50 cents pluss $25 cents or so for the padded envelope. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:57 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, This statement is far from true: Anyone who charges $4.00 shipping for a micro in the USA is ripping off their customers. They are just trying to make money on the shipping. I charge $1.00 on 99% of the micors I sell on ebay. The exception is when the micro is valuable, like Lunar and Martian material that I need to track to ensure it isnt lost. Michael Farmer I only ship Priority Mail and charge exactly $4.05, the actual cost of the stamp. Most people PayPal payments including shipping. After PayPal takes their cut, I actually lose money on shipments. I combine on the average 5 items bringing down the customers' costs to just 81 cents an item. I combine over two auction sessions allowing them to bring shipping costs down even further. The buyer gets their items in 2 days without the breakage you get by shipping in padded envelopes. I have found, that overall Priority Mail is the only way to go and nobody is get ripped-off! Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go?
Adam, give me a break, I started selling meteorites on Ebay in 1996. You WERE NOT one of my first customers. And as for selling more than me on ebay, yeah, I guess you have, since you load like every item you own on ebay week after week, 20 or 30 of the same item. Either way, indeed, the customers can decide what is a good deal. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:26 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, 2 day shipping with virtually no breakage for an average costs of just 81 cents an item is a good deal. Mike, if you check your records, I was one of your first customers on ebay and have shipped thousands of more items than you have under Lunarisha , Meteoritelab, RareMeteorites and Naturequest so I think I know what I am talking about. I will stick with Priority Mail which is far superior to First Class mail. Let the collector decide if the costs add up or not. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Nonsense, I have been on ebay for years before you Adam, I have shipped thousands of items. First class I have had maybe 10 losses in the last 10 years. Several items overseas have been lost, but that is neither here nor there. I combine shipping as well, as long as it can be safely shipped in a bubble envelope. Selling a 1 to 10 item then charging $4.05 shipping is not a good deal for anyone. Fine, you are not keeping the money. It still doubles the price of the item (or more) thus does not equal a good deal. Any time I see inflated shipping on ebay, I move on, I hate throwing my money away. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:07 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, Nobody is being ripped off! Breakage costs more than what is be saved by going first class. I have made thousands of shipments and have only had a couple items broken using Priority Mail which includes a sturdy box. Only two items were ever permanently lost as opposed to dozens using first class. Customers are actually paying more by going with dealers who do not combine shipping and use first class. As I stated, the average item shipping cost is less than 81 cents, a 19% savings over those who ship first class and don't combine shipping. The shipping costs are more than realized in savings comparing eBay costs with what dealers charge retail. On the average ebay is 68% cheaper than what dealers ask on their web-sites making it the best deal going for collectors and shipping factors in very little in comparison. That 99 cent micro would sell for over $5.00 in a retail setting! Enough said, Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? So then why not ship first class? You are telling us that people who buy a meteorite from you on ebay for $0.99 cents and then pays $4.05 shipping is not being ripped off? Even if you are not keeping the money, it is just stupid to pay so much when it can be shipped for barely $.50 cents pluss $25 cents or so for the padded envelope. Mike Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:57 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Micro/Macromount Availability- Where did they Go? Mike, This statement is far from true: Anyone who charges $4.00 shipping for a micro in the USA is ripping off their customers. They are just trying to make money on the shipping. I charge $1.00 on 99% of the micors I sell on ebay. The exception is when the micro is valuable, like Lunar and Martian material that I need to track to ensure it isnt lost. Michael Farmer I only ship Priority Mail and charge exactly $4.05, the actual cost of the stamp. Most people PayPal payments including shipping. After PayPal takes their cut, I actually lose money on shipments. I combine on the average 5 items bringing down the customers' costs to just 81 cents an item. I combine over two auction sessions allowing them to bring shipping costs down even further. The buyer gets their items in 2 days without the breakage you get by shipping in padded envelopes. I
RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
YAWN,, Adam, I love how you think you are the king of the mole hill, you are not however. Get a life, take your request for written permission and put it where your hot air seems to come from. List members, look how long it took before Adam jumped in with this crap, about 2 hours is all it took. Adam, get a life dude, you need help. Michal Mazur can do whatever he wants, it is his business. He is also selling $20,000 pieces, so if it is cheaper, go for it. I am here, in the USA, I can ship now, or you can wait on someone else to make up their mind what they want to do. Not my problem. When permission is given it can not be revoked 3 weeks later. Even your lawyers should be able to tell you that. Keep it up though, it shows this entire list what an IMCA board member is about. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:25 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Who is Mike Mazur?, he is the one offering a better deal. Lets see your written permission. Any treasure hunter and professional knows that you need it in writing to avoid future conflict which happens all of time. If the owner(s) of the cement company knew you were seeking $200.00 a gram or $70,000.00 he may be inclined to retract any verbal permission given. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling cheaper. Why do you say The origional finder While Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet from each other, so I would say we are both origional finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park Forest, and you found nothing. Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress in your life if you stayed out of my business. Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. Good night. Mike Farmer --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Translated reports reported to the List state that these meteorites were stolen. I am just making sure since the original finder of the cement factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat less. It is always good to double check these things as you know from Park Forest. I hope you got permission in writing is all I have to say. My days of chasing falls in over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the initial lab results do out? Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Re: Moss meteorite sales
Actually Matt, Here are the emails you wrote saying that it was illegal. Looks pretty cut and dry to me. Matt Morgan mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com Sun Jul 23 13:52:24 EDT 2006 Previous message: [meteorite-list] New Met Friend Next message: [meteorite-list] Norway here we come! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] +++Mike: You may be able to touch the pieces, but it is illegal to remove them from Norway. Which is a real bummer. Be careful. Matt You also wrote after I posted that we found a piece that it was illegal to remove from the country. That is not true. Michael Farmer Mike: I do not recall saying it was illegal after you had found one. I was merely asking the list if anyone knew the hunting laws in Norway as I was strongly considering flying over. Several other hunters told me to that it was illegal to remove ANY cultural property. Since there was confusion over the laws, I abandoned the trip. Mr. Mazur has done his homework and it appears to be OK...for now. Matt __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] (AD) Villalbeto de la Peña for sale
Hello to the list,Moss meteorite is the actual new meteorite that everyone should have in its collection as it's a fantastic fall.I'm offering another fantastic fall which is Villalbeto de la Peña's fall of january 2004. It's one of the few filmed meteorite fall.Here, I'm offering a 145 grams individual found in june 2006. I did a fairly price at 34 euros/gram as it's rarely seen for sale and that only a few collectors worldwide have some in their collection. So be quick as I've several people interested in it !So come on and have a look at this page : http://www.meteor-center.com/vdlp2006Price is a starting price and I'll be happy to discuss about it.Regards,Pierre-Marie PELE__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad Sinkhote Alin Bullets
I have two nice Sinkhote Alin Bullets (16.5 and 9.5) and other meteorite pieces on Ebay. Very low "Buy it now" prices for bullets. Thanks, Derek. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12
From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:45:46 -0600 No, they don't have the authority to redefine words that are in common usage and found in ordinary dictionaries. That is quite different from defining the proper name of bodies, craters, etc. Their definitions are more akin to recommendations than anything binding; I can quite legally call any astronomical object anything I want; of course, it probably won't be accepted by many! For myself, unless there is something huge and spectacular hiding out there, I propose we call all the trans-Neptunian ice-and-dirtballs crutons (as several List members have suggested), lose Pluto as a planet (for strict interpretations), and stop throwing monkey doo-doo. :D Anyone here read a kids' book by Andrew Clements, called _Frindle_? Ver-r-r-y enlightening. Tracy Latimer (the Librarian-in-training) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Congrats to a Tucson Meteorite Hunter
Dear Listees: I've done my share of meteorite hunting this year, and it's been a pretty good year for me so far. I came home exhausted, bitten, bruised, scratched, sunburned, and with a big hole in my wallet . . . and I never left the USA : ) When we're at home, reading the List, or enjoying our own collections, it's easy to forget how extremely arduous meteorite hunting can be -- not to say costly, both in terms of time and money. We may have differences of opinion regarding how things should be done, but I say congratulations are in order to my neighbor Mike Farmer for heading overseas, hunting in two foreign countries, and coming home with meteorites that he found in both of those countries. That's a hell of a big accomplishment however you cut it. And a big iron on your birthday too. Now that's the way to celebrate! Respectfully, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
