Re: [meteorite-list] MORE COMET HOLMES #3
Hi, 6.7 arc minute is 469,000 km at 17P's distance. 13-17 arc minutes is 910,000 to 1,190,000 km. The first brightening was observed at Tennerife just after local midnight, October 24, or about 52-54 hours ago. If the bright coma radius is now 235,000 km, it's been expanding at roughly 4500 km/hour and the extended coma at 10,000 km/hour. Another 24 hours (Friday night) would add 216,000 km to the bright coma diameter, or 685,000 km (9.7 arc minutes). This is about 1/3 of the size of the Full Moon (which is 30 arc minutes). A second 24 hours of expansion would take the bright coma up nearly half the size of the Full Moon. (Of course, the expansion is not necessarily linear, but it may in fact expand faster than the linear... for a while.) Another of tonight's observations posted at the Sky and Telescope site: From ST's Alan MacRobert: Omigod. thin clouds lit by the full Moon I had to guess where Perseus was, but I swept around with 10x50 binoculars, and wham, there was the comet! It's sure not starlike now, at least not in the 10x binocs with homemade image stabilization. It's a very sizeable bright fuzz spot, perfectly round, with a large, brilliant, hazy nucleus and a very sharp edge to the circular coma. Golden yellow with just a hint of green. When the clouds finally cleared and I could see it with the naked eye, it was still starlike to my vision. Magnitude 2.6 or 2.7. (Apparently you can just barely see the green, with big enough binoculars. Carbon monoxide like Hyutake?) IF (big if) this is a mega-outburst and the brightening lasts until Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, we will have 1, 2 , and 3 hours of dark sky with the comet in the sky at the beginning of night before the Moon rises (varies with lattitude). My local Weather Prophets say clear here by Saturday --- keep going, Holmesie! May you get big and bright enough that ordinary people look up and say, What The H*** is THAT Thing? Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MORE COMET HOLMES #2 I've updated the profile at http://www.cloudbait.com/gallery/comet/holmes.html with data taken tonight. The brighter central coma is now at least twice as wide (6.7 arcmin across), with some structure showing as far out as 13-17 arcmin. I did take some images tonight which I may add to the site tomorrow. I still see no structure, just a bigger object. Right now I'm running an overnight photometric sequence, so I'll see tomorrow how the brightness might be changing with time (that will actually be a light curve; the other data is an intensity profile). Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] MORE COMET HOLMES #2 According to Chris, the coma is about 3.3 arc minutes across, or 230,000 kilometers. The very brightest part is about 2.8 arc minutes or 196,000 km across. Chris has a light curve on his website (URL below. Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MORE COMET HOLMES
you'll see that any tail (which by default points away from the Sun) would point away from the Earth at a very similar angle. The tail would (will) have to be fairly long before we got our first glimpse of it and... the coma is in the way, too. Sterling, this is not true for any tail. Due to the greater distance represented by each arcminute with such a relatively remote object to observe, the dust tail would be expected to develop more slowly from our perspective. (The Ion tail is another matter.) As covered in a previous post on the subject to Steve when we discussed Comet McNaught there are two tails on every comet, whether you see them easily or not. The Ion Tail, and the Dust Tail, and the dust tail usually forms fairly along the lines our senses would expect. Comet Holmes, is is quite far away, well into the cold main asteroid belt where the Solar wind is somewhat attenuated due to the distance (vs. your typical Sungrazer or comets making it closer to the Sun) and ion tail formation less dramatic (though certainly detectable if you were in Rosetta along for the ride). At just 1 proton per cm^3, it is around one sixth as dense as it is near Earth's orbit, providing this much less flux, somewhat like a black light (UV) light, that provides most of the energy to light up the ion tail. Given that the Solar Wind at that distance is a snails crawl only about 300 Km/s :-) and importantly only one sixth that even of a temporate Earth density, things are a little bit less chaotic in that neighborhood which basically 'starts' somewhere around Mars (1.5 AU), and certainly somewhat calmer by 2.5 AU of the comet. In this case, however, it seems plausible that a major disruption could provide a dust tail, which we have a nice perspective to view forming. Dust tails though will form much more slowly and this could start out just being the so-called coma. Certainly, an Ion Tail is possible, but that is not a reason to rule out a conventional tail composed of larger neutral dust. All of the interesting magnitude comments by Larry and myself become far more astounding and outrageous when we realize that this Comet is shining so bright * out there *. Larry has estimated what the magnitude would be if we were closer to the comet (on Mars). He hasn't covered what it would be if the comet were closer to us. I mentioned if the comet were where Mars is, it would be 25% as bright as the whole planet (this was yesterday). I need to clarify that. That would be correct if it received the same amount of Sunlight. But at a Mars distance, it would receive a Mars share of Sunlight. Nearly three times as much. In that hypothetical comparison the comet would actually be 75% the brightness of Mars and today surpass the brightness of the planet. If the comet were a typical comet we saw at say at a moderate 0.5 AU distance from Earth as well as 0.5 AU from the Sun, the magnitude would be over 10 times brigher due to the proximity to us, * and * over 25 times brighter due to the increased brightness of the Sun in its neighborhood. I'm sloppy with phase angles, but it is good to get an idea that it would be over 250 times even brighter. That is six more magnitude points: A diffuse object as bright as Venus!!! Then there is one more factor I didn't include. If it were that close to the Sun there is no telling how great the production of both tails would be, but clearly it would be a bright daylight object even at 0.5 AU. This hypothetical exercise may not be the situation, but thinking about it surely helped me appreciate how fortunate we are to be observing this event in our lifetimes. Good luck to you Walter and friends in your observations throught the clouds. Visually, at 10:20PM CDT (2007.10.26.14 UT), I estimate the magnitude and did not seen the super brightness increase reported and can only estimate m1 to be 2.6 magnitude - still a health improvement over my 2.8 magnitude yesterday. Listmember Bob King deserves a real round of congratulations, having viewed the comet the night before last as the situation developed from the 7 th magnitude the evening of the event Best wishes and back to the sky, Doug - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:17 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] MORE COMET HOLMES Hi, All List member Chris Peterson is too busy observing Holmes to post it here (rightfully), but his website has excellent pictures of the comet and a lot of up-to-date information: http://www.cloudbait.com/gallery/comet/holmes.html Everyone mention that a tail has not yet formed, but if you look at the NASA-JPL orbit simulation: http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=17P;orb=1 you'll see that any tail (which by default points away from the Sun) would point away from the Earth at a very similar angle. The tail would
Re: [meteorite-list] traffickers, dealers, and GREEDY traffickers
DUDE, you are messed up! You are anti-American, that is the real issue isn't it? I don't see you on here complaining about the multitude of German collectors who went to Spain and found meteorites there, not one word about them. Aren't they the same in your mind? Didn't they take meteorite from Spain? You don't care about them do you, just me. Come on out and say it, at least say what you mean, because this kind of crap is really getting old. Michael Farmer --- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a difference. One country's trafficker is anothers logistic agent. Attention-whore traffickers are another matter. I don't buy any more, so I really don't have any qualms about calling it as I see it. Yes, I have purchased from Farmer, so that makes me a John. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
No, we need that. Don't discuss with tipsy writers. Skol -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Michael Farmer Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2007 11:52 An: Thaddeus Besedin Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds. Anyone else on this list tired of being called thieves and pirates? Because 50% of the people on this list happily bought pieces, as well as many scientists. Thaddeus, this is getting old. Barbarism is war, and terrorism, I hardly think collecting rocks, and saving them from destruction qualifies. I am sick of being called names by you. Michael Farmer Any help here, or are the other list members going to just let his drivel continue? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
Thaddeus, I have to say I was not able to laugh over the cartoon. But I can understand Mike Farmer is pissed of how he was welcome in Peru. Anyway I know Mike as a very liberal American, one with open hart and mind ,going to places all over the world where meteorites have been fallen. So Theaddeus I cant really follow your argumentation, but where do you take the third Reich from ? You don't know what you are talking about. The third Reich is the darkest chapter in German and European History .I for my self started with 8 years to read about the third Reich and the second World war.It was hard to realized as Child that this all started in my country , so I educated my self in third reich , for knowing how to avoid a fourth one. So please dont talk over the third reich as a phrase , it was real and it was horrible and has nothing to do with making an offensive Cartoon. Andi __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apology for use of modified four-letter word that we know and love
Yeah. I'm off the meds and a sailor at heart. -Thaddeus __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
Anyone else on this list tired of being called thieves and pirates? Because 50% of the people on this list happily bought pieces, as well as many scientists. Thaddeus, this is getting old. Barbarism is war, and terrorism, I hardly think collecting rocks, and saving them from destruction qualifies. I am sick of being called names by you. Michael Farmer Any help here, or are the other list members going to just let his drivel continue? --- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your friend just ripped off someone else, with much more talent than either of you drunken cokeheads. How is that sort of theft not barbaric? You need to stop waving the word Peruvians or Peru's around as if they are one big collective awareness. You have no idea what science is, and what it is not. Let the rock oxidize. Why not? then we can study terrestrialization in a highland environment. Sampling is what science must do, thanks to greedy traffickers who profit without benefiting the institutions that make it possible to profit immensely. If you donated 10% of your profit to one institution to pay for analysis of a greater proportion of samples, then we can talk science. --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine made this up tonight, it shows the mentality of Peru's scientists with regard to the Carancas meteorite fall. http://meteoriteguy.com/ebayauctionstockphotos/INGEMMET_large.gif On another note, Randall Gregory is back to his old tricks, threatening me and my family. I am about to take serious action if it continues. It seems that my sales are driving him to insanity. He now thinks that he is working with the Peruvian government. I think he needs serious help, the delusions are getting worse by the day. Anyone who wants to read some of the nuttier emails can let me know, I will forward them. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru news - finders keepers
Just because something lands on your land doesn't mean you own it. What if luggage containing money came out of the sky, creating a crater, from an airplane that exploded in mid-air? Would I own the money? What if I found a human burial while digging a pool. Would I own the skull? You make us all look like collaborators with looters and traffickers. This legal stalemate itself is the problem. The Peruvian government is not going to put it on ebay, you know; what a waste, you must think. National patrimony should not be sold. -Thaddeus --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just had a 30 minute conversation with the landowner in Carancas. He told me some interesting news. The federal government of Peru has threatened imprisonment for anyone who attempts to excavate the meteorite. The townspeople want to dig it up, as I know well since I was at the meeting where it was voted for. The scientists are threatening the people, saying that the meteorite will go to Lima and they will not be compensated. This is causing a huge problem down there. So what was written today is total crap. I never said the meteorite was worth a million dollars or anything like that. The people are not idiots, they know it is worth a lot of money, and they hope to better their lives with it. The government is dashing those dreams by forbidding it's removal. They are allowing it to be destroyed both for science and any economical gain. I tried to contact Nunez del Prado, I am going to lay into him, for spreading these lies about me. Whatever problems they are having are their own between them and the locals. I guess they think they have the right to just romp in, do what they want, and take the meteorite from the villagers. It seems the villagers have other ideas. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 34g Millbillillie and historic Texas fall - AD
in order to refinance some past acquisitions that turned out to be much more cost-intensive than expected we would like to point you to a selection of meteorites currently uploaded for auction. Among them a glossy crusted 34gm Millbillilie which I really regret to let go. But I am sure someone alse will enjoy the pleasure of curating this specimen as much as I did. The 11gm slice of the Kendleton meteorite comes with a large size reprint of La Tribuna Illustrata cover from May 21st 1939. The watercolored drawing done by artist Vittorio Pisani shows a Houston street scene whith a crowd terrified by the spectacular fireball of the Kendleton bolide traversing the sky. Both the contemporary magazine cover and the meteorite itself make a museum grade display unit: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwerffroenne Thank you for your interest Svend -- www.niger-meteorite-recon.de __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] morrocan and americain influence on pairing
I agree with Greg only as far as this is concerned. The problem could and should be taken care of at the source. It would be relatively easy for Moroccan dealers to get together when a new meteorite appears, like the new one from Mali or this Lodranite or the many-numbered Shergottite. You could put the whole mass aside and send just one sample of 20 grams to the University of Casablanca. You would probably get a response with a month or 2 and then you could all put the meteorite on the market at the same time. And with just ONE number. Dear Annie This could happend in ideal world, and we not live there :) In Morocco live not 5 dealers but maybe 50 or 100 bigger or smaller, moroccans, nomads and who else work with our stones. Some are more educated in meteorites some less, some deals only with meteorites and some only from time to time. Its just impossible to organize them. They protecting their sources and they customers from each other. This is competition who find more meteorites and sell more expensive. Also how we could get one number for our stones if we live all over the world ? We also protect our sources, everyone want be first to offer new material and noone will wait for me or for You till You show what You have and You send samples or photos to compare etc.Yep, how we can be sure that we all have the same material and we can all together send only one 20g sample ? Comparing on photos ? Not. Sending slices to every other dealer to compare my material with Yours ? Not. Tell You where I bough it ? I dont even think that anyone tell me where he buying his stuff. Some material show loong after its premiere. For example my specimen of MC046. I dont need to be Ted Bunch to know with number its paired but I dont make photos pairing or ask others if I can use their numbers, but make my own classification like we all do. So I think we must accept this situation. There is no possible to solve this problem if beetween us and meteorites work 10 or 20 middleman's. Even if You come to morocco and want to buy all samples of meteorites (like Mali or latest shergottite) there will be alvays some samples that You will not find or even they will be sold like something else (lodranite as chondrite, lunar as eucrite) and someone else will buy it and make new classification becouse he dont know that his 500g is part of Yours 50kg. And at lest 500g sells better than 50kg so I dont expectthat that all dealers will split together even if its possible. We CARE as much as we can on meteorites in this situation. I alvays make detailed photos of main mass before cuting, sending type specimens, looking for possible pairings etc. But thats all I can do. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mali meteorite: racism, to begin
Every time our friends from thedark continent have something that you may potentially let go of your rent for, you doubt it. It's always a scam. I read about good old boys here on the list ripping you off (how COULD they!), and it's as if the phrase they're all the same is the first thing that pops up, though not in so many words. It took a white man to convince you. How fucking typical. Go collect state quarters and get your fingers out of your mouths! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
I was using a familiar example. I would have said Holy Roman Empire, which was, according to the idea advanced comparing the theft of a comic to barbarian theft of Roman Culture, appropriate. The Holy Roman Empire would be the Second Reich. I'm also not saying that Germany hads stolen Rome. But Roma, as a an ideal model (at least in appearance) for an ideological superstructure, had many takers after Constantinople became the de facto political center of the Roman Empire. Everything with Mike is usually OK, and then comes the bull___ attempts at humor, from a friend, or macho stabs at everybody else, living as they do in their own country, handling their own affairs differently than we do here, I guess. It's not anti-American contempt for G.I. Mike, it's anti-jingo-consumerization that tinges my ordinarily controlled outbursts of language. --- Andreas Gren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thaddeus, I have to say I was not able to laugh over the cartoon. But I can understand Mike Farmer is pissed of how he was welcome in Peru. Anyway I know Mike as a very liberal American, one with open hart and mind ,going to places all over the world where meteorites have been fallen. So Theaddeus I cant really follow your argumentation, but where do you take the third Reich from ? You don't know what you are talking about. The third Reich is the darkest chapter in German and European History .I for my self started with 8 years to read about the third Reich and the second World war.It was hard to realized as Child that this all started in my country , so I educated my self in third reich , for knowing how to avoid a fourth one. So please dont talk over the third reich as a phrase , it was real and it was horrible and has nothing to do with making an offensive Cartoon. Andi __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
Your friend just ripped off someone else, with much more talent than either of you drunken cokeheads. How is that sort of theft not barbaric? You need to stop waving the word Peruvians or Peru's around as if they are one big collective awareness. You have no idea what science is, and what it is not. Let the rock oxidize. Why not? then we can study terrestrialization in a highland environment. Sampling is what science must do, thanks to greedy traffickers who profit without benefiting the institutions that make it possible to profit immensely. If you donated 10% of your profit to one institution to pay for analysis of a greater proportion of samples, then we can talk science. --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine made this up tonight, it shows the mentality of Peru's scientists with regard to the Carancas meteorite fall. http://meteoriteguy.com/ebayauctionstockphotos/INGEMMET_large.gif On another note, Randall Gregory is back to his old tricks, threatening me and my family. I am about to take serious action if it continues. It seems that my sales are driving him to insanity. He now thinks that he is working with the Peruvian government. I think he needs serious help, the delusions are getting worse by the day. Anyone who wants to read some of the nuttier emails can let me know, I will forward them. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] discoidal rock receptacles
I'll sell my old Folsom, California brothel token as a whore quarter, a little meteor than right. -Thaddeus --- Göran Axelsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Walter Branch wrote: difference between coins, tokens, medals, and rounds-- except for coin collectors. True. As a stamp and cover collector, I cringe when I hear someone call it an envelope when to me it is a cover. Also, a first day cover and event cover are not the same thing. -Walter I know your feeling, Walter. As a coin collector since 25 years, this topic has been a painful experience. ;-) To me a coin is only a coin if it's been issued at nominal value. No matter what mints and other persons say, any coin that is impossible to get from a bank or mint at nominal value at least once in it's lifetime is nothing more than a glorified medal. If the nominal value has nothing to do with the price then it is not currency. ... but that is only my opinion. I have written this mail a number of times and never sent it, but finally I had to add to the discussion. I promise, the next message I write will be about meteorites. Wait, I know! I will sell my silver dollars as super nova coins. What do you think? :-) /Göran __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mali meteorite: racism, to begin
WOW, you must be off your meds. Art, I get censored, so this language is not permitted on the list. This is a sick email. This guy hates everyone and everything who does not subscribe to his ideas of leaving every rock where it lands and thinks that every purchase is a theft. Anyone know who he is? Michael Farmer --- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every time our friends from thedark continent have something that you may potentially let go of your rent for, you doubt it. It's always a scam. I read about good old boys here on the list ripping you off (how COULD they!), and it's as if the phrase they're all the same is the first thing that pops up, though not in so many words. It took a white man to convince you. How fucking typical. Go collect state quarters and get your fingers out of your mouths! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
I find it offensive that you used an example of splitting rocks as some sort of disparaging display of humor. Rock splitting is incredibly difficult if you do it to any design at all, which explins the great abundance of waste flake material at prehistoric archaeological sites. It took a great deal of trial and error to perfect any design in stone. We take our technologies for granted, but when do we ever try for ourselves? You stated that your friend made this up. That was ehere I began. It's like every powerful post-Roman European political body claiming to be Rome, e.g. The third Reich. -Thaddeus --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone else on this list tired of being called thieves and pirates? Because 50% of the people on this list happily bought pieces, as well as many scientists. Thaddeus, this is getting old. Barbarism is war, and terrorism, I hardly think collecting rocks, and saving them from destruction qualifies. I am sick of being called names by you. Michael Farmer Any help here, or are the other list members going to just let his drivel continue? --- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your friend just ripped off someone else, with much more talent than either of you drunken cokeheads. How is that sort of theft not barbaric? You need to stop waving the word Peruvians or Peru's around as if they are one big collective awareness. You have no idea what science is, and what it is not. Let the rock oxidize. Why not? then we can study terrestrialization in a highland environment. Sampling is what science must do, thanks to greedy traffickers who profit without benefiting the institutions that make it possible to profit immensely. If you donated 10% of your profit to one institution to pay for analysis of a greater proportion of samples, then we can talk science. --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine made this up tonight, it shows the mentality of Peru's scientists with regard to the Carancas meteorite fall. http://meteoriteguy.com/ebayauctionstockphotos/INGEMMET_large.gif On another note, Randall Gregory is back to his old tricks, threatening me and my family. I am about to take serious action if it continues. It seems that my sales are driving him to insanity. He now thinks that he is working with the Peruvian government. I think he needs serious help, the delusions are getting worse by the day. Anyone who wants to read some of the nuttier emails can let me know, I will forward them. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
I find it offensive that you used an example of splitting rocks as some sort of disparaging display of humor. Rock splitting is incredibly difficult if you do it to any design at all, which explins the great abundance of waste flake material at prehistoric archaeological sites. It took a great deal of trial and error to perfect any design in stone. We take our technologies for granted, but when do we ever try for ourselves? You stated that your friend made this up. That was ehere I began. It's like every powerful post-Roman European political body claiming to be Rome, e.g. The third Reich. -Thaddeus --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone else on this list tired of being called thieves and pirates? Because 50% of the people on this list happily bought pieces, as well as many scientists. Thaddeus, this is getting old. Barbarism is war, and terrorism, I hardly think collecting rocks, and saving them from destruction qualifies. I am sick of being called names by you. Michael Farmer Any help here, or are the other list members going to just let his drivel continue? --- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your friend just ripped off someone else, with much more talent than either of you drunken cokeheads. How is that sort of theft not barbaric? You need to stop waving the word Peruvians or Peru's around as if they are one big collective awareness. You have no idea what science is, and what it is not. Let the rock oxidize. Why not? then we can study terrestrialization in a highland environment. Sampling is what science must do, thanks to greedy traffickers who profit without benefiting the institutions that make it possible to profit immensely. If you donated 10% of your profit to one institution to pay for analysis of a greater proportion of samples, then we can talk science. --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine made this up tonight, it shows the mentality of Peru's scientists with regard to the Carancas meteorite fall. http://meteoriteguy.com/ebayauctionstockphotos/INGEMMET_large.gif On another note, Randall Gregory is back to his old tricks, threatening me and my family. I am about to take serious action if it continues. It seems that my sales are driving him to insanity. He now thinks that he is working with the Peruvian government. I think he needs serious help, the delusions are getting worse by the day. Anyone who wants to read some of the nuttier emails can let me know, I will forward them. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing Peru's scientists as being confused about the need to preserve their one and only meteorite fall from disentigrating. The Third Reich never really entered my mind. You have some serious issues, please deal with them.Michael Farmer --- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find it offensive that you used an example of splitting rocks as some sort of disparaging display of humor. Rock splitting is incredibly difficult if you do it to any design at all, which explins the great abundance of waste flake material at prehistoric archaeological sites. It took a great deal of trial and error to perfect any design in stone. We take our technologies for granted, but when do we ever try for ourselves? You stated that your friend made this up. That was ehere I began. It's like every powerful post-Roman European political body claiming to be Rome, e.g. The third Reich. -Thaddeus --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone else on this list tired of being called thieves and pirates? Because 50% of the people on this list happily bought pieces, as well as many scientists. Thaddeus, this is getting old. Barbarism is war, and terrorism, I hardly think collecting rocks, and saving them from destruction qualifies. I am sick of being called names by you. Michael Farmer Any help here, or are the other list members going to just let his drivel continue? --- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your friend just ripped off someone else, with much more talent than either of you drunken cokeheads. How is that sort of theft not barbaric? You need to stop waving the word Peruvians or Peru's around as if they are one big collective awareness. You have no idea what science is, and what it is not. Let the rock oxidize. Why not? then we can study terrestrialization in a highland environment. Sampling is what science must do, thanks to greedy traffickers who profit without benefiting the institutions that make it possible to profit immensely. If you donated 10% of your profit to one institution to pay for analysis of a greater proportion of samples, then we can talk science. --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine made this up tonight, it shows the mentality of Peru's scientists with regard to the Carancas meteorite fall. http://meteoriteguy.com/ebayauctionstockphotos/INGEMMET_large.gif On another note, Randall Gregory is back to his old tricks, threatening me and my family. I am about to take serious action if it continues. It seems that my sales are driving him to insanity. He now thinks that he is working with the Peruvian government. I think he needs serious help, the delusions are getting worse by the day. Anyone who wants to read some of the nuttier emails can let me know, I will forward them. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] traffickers, dealers, and GREEDY traffickers
There is a difference. One country's trafficker is anothers logistic agent. Attention-whore traffickers are another matter. I don't buy any more, so I really don't have any qualms about calling it as I see it. Yes, I have purchased from Farmer, so that makes me a John. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P]
We have had perfect skies for days to observeup to the day that Holmes flared upovercast ever since! :-( Always seems to happen here in the UK when there is something good to see. Thats why I took up collecting meteorites :-) Graham Ensor Mark Langenfeld wrote: Even with the extra-bright full moon and the usual urban light pollution, 17/P Holmes is a nice naked-eye object here in Madison, WI this evening. The coma is suprisingly large and shows a bright, star-like condensation or center through 7X50 binoculars. I agree with Jeff that color is apparent, showing a yellowish --almost orange -- cast. If you haven't yet taken a look (and have clear skies), NOW is the time to get outdoors and witness this most unusual event. Mark - Original Message - From: Jerry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P] Just to update those interested, there is no diminishing in brightness in fact there may be a slight increase. It defintely looks cometary in binoculars with a bright center and hazy coma. And as someone said last nite, it has a redish cast. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru news - finders keepers
I don't know, may you explain, why you ask from meteorite dealers a higher moral standard or ethical behaviour than from the fastfood chain, where you're munching your burgers, the power authorities, which are heating your home, the carmaker, where you bought your car from, our butcher, baker, supermarket on the end of the food supply industry chain, where you're buying your food? Additionally the list policies require, that you can back your statements with facts. If you bring the meteorite dealers in context with looters, traffickers, thieves, Then please be so kind to quote here word by word the laws regarding meteorites of those countries, wherefrom meteorites are coming, which are dealt. It's so easy to point with the finger always on others and to voice allegations without having to back them. Here you have a list of all states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states Please add to each state the quotation of its legislation concerning meteorites (note that in federally organized states, there might be individual laws for each federal state). Get started, do it. If not, we simply won't allow, that you continue to criminalize the collectorship, dealership and the scientists. Thanks Annoyed Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru news - finders keepers
You are driven by an interest in the material, surely, but I think here that you may not have been translating subtleties of context here as I may have intend to communicate. I strictly compare Mike's attitude to that of a trafficker in contraband, except for his hesitation to control his public declarations of his ethnic contempt. To comment on how value can become at all, in the pursuit of accumulation of a natural object, which may have required more or less labor to locate than an equally-valued object, I emphasize that, among all goods and services, no effort to strip the veneer of commercialization from the fetishized object of consumption need be made. When meteorite tokens are on the mind, it is obvious that this list and few other arenas can alone be held responsible for value-generation by creating demand without campaign advertising and branding. Desire to buy is not just some emanation. We demand far beyond base consumption as a gesture of identity-building, and to privately indulge in waste, among other reasons. It is necessary, then, to manipulate potential buyers that have only periodic demand for a substitute product, say car restoration supplies, kites, video games, etc. To back up with citation something like the well-known, historically recorded aspirations of Nazi Germany to become like their predecessor, e.g. the Holy Roman Empire, is redundant. Trafficking can also be constituted indirectly, with a conniving nod to the violators in other places in the world where sources of material are abundant, yet enforcement is fraught with corruption, a situation fortuitously taken advantage of by dealers. If envy is the reason that authorities arrest people in the situation that Mike finds himself in, then Mike would be dead and gone by now. I munch hummus, by the way. Do you goose-step? I am not equating Mike himself with traffickers, but escaping from a country to avoid a possible arrest that cannot be verified to have possibly, with any certainty,to have potentially occurred at all, and with many others seemingly escaping with no concern or fear for some sort of threat to their freedom, is inconsistent with innocence for every transaction that Mike has been involved in. He knew that the police had confiscated property. Property must remain as evidence. This is tantamount to buying cocaine from a corrupt cop responsible for inventory of an evidence locker. Germany has laws guaranteeing landowners their gifts from the sky; disparity of political and economic conditions is such that no comparison can be made to the conduct of a legal system in another sovereign country. Finally, laws should not alone dictate a maximum degree of ethical self-restraint. -Thaddeus --- Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know, may you explain, why you ask from meteorite dealers a higher moral standard or ethical behaviour than from the fastfood chain, where you're munching your burgers, the power authorities, which are heating your home, the carmaker, where you bought your car from, our butcher, baker, supermarket on the end of the food supply industry chain, where you're buying your food? Additionally the list policies require, that you can back your statements with facts. If you bring the meteorite dealers in context with looters, traffickers, thieves, Then please be so kind to quote here word by word the laws regarding meteorites of those countries, wherefrom meteorites are coming, which are dealt. It's so easy to point with the finger always on others and to voice allegations without having to back them. Here you have a list of all states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states Please add to each state the quotation of its legislation concerning meteorites (note that in federally organized states, there might be individual laws for each federal state). Get started, do it. If not, we simply won't allow, that you continue to criminalize the collectorship, dealership and the scientists. Thanks Annoyed Martin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] discoidal rock receptacles
Better you should use it for its original purpose. It would calm you down a lot. I'll sell my old Folsom, California brothel token as a whore quarter, a little meteor than right. -Thaddeus __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru news - finders keepers
I just do not like waking up at 3 am for a flight, and reading this same, tired drivel. As you say Martin, I want proof if I am to be called a pirate. Peru has no such laws, but in that country, their legal system also states that you are guilty of any crime you are accused of, you are required to prove your innocence. In that regard, I will darned sure flee the country when the police come knocking at my door at 5 am, demanding money. I guess Thaddeus would would demand to see the president of the republic. It is simply not right for the list to have to put up with these kinds of attacks, come on, if you do not like what I am doing, we can discuss it in a meaningful way, these personal name-calling attacks are not the way. Michael Farmer --- Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know, may you explain, why you ask from meteorite dealers a higher moral standard or ethical behaviour than from the fastfood chain, where you're munching your burgers, the power authorities, which are heating your home, the carmaker, where you bought your car from, our butcher, baker, supermarket on the end of the food supply industry chain, where you're buying your food? Additionally the list policies require, that you can back your statements with facts. If you bring the meteorite dealers in context with looters, traffickers, thieves, Then please be so kind to quote here word by word the laws regarding meteorites of those countries, wherefrom meteorites are coming, which are dealt. It's so easy to point with the finger always on others and to voice allegations without having to back them. Here you have a list of all states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states Please add to each state the quotation of its legislation concerning meteorites (note that in federally organized states, there might be individual laws for each federal state). Get started, do it. If not, we simply won't allow, that you continue to criminalize the collectorship, dealership and the scientists. Thanks Annoyed Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing Peru's scientists as being confused about the need to preserve their one and only meteorite fall from disentigrating. The Third Reich never really entered my mind. You have some serious issues, please deal with them.Michael Farmer I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law (Also Sturgeon's Law) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Pe ru'sscientific minds.
Hey, for all of you that need some fresh air, there is a really nice comet in the sky :-) Proposal to all: suspend this discussion, think of it, then forget it! Jan -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: 26.10.07 13:08:35 An: Andreas Gren [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds. I was using a familiar example. I would have said Holy Roman Empire, which was, according to the idea advanced comparing the theft of a comic to barbarian theft of Roman Culture, appropriate. The Holy Roman Empire would be the Second Reich. I'm also not saying that Germany hads stolen Rome. But Roma, as a an ideal model (at least in appearance) for an ideological superstructure, had many takers after Constantinople became the de facto political center of the Roman Empire. Everything with Mike is usually OK, and then comes the bull___ attempts at humor, from a friend, or macho stabs at everybody else, living as they do in their own country, handling their own affairs differently than we do here, I guess. It's not anti-American contempt for G.I. Mike, it's anti-jingo-consumerization that tinges my ordinarily controlled outbursts of language. --- Andreas Gren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thaddeus, I have to say I was not able to laugh over the cartoon. But I can understand Mike Farmer is pissed of how he was welcome in Peru. Anyway I know Mike as a very liberal American, one with open hart and mind ,going to places all over the world where meteorites have been fallen. So Theaddeus I cant really follow your argumentation, but where do you take the third Reich from ? You don't know what you are talking about. The third Reich is the darkest chapter in German and European History .I for my self started with 8 years to read about the third Reich and the second World war.It was hard to realized as Child that this all started in my country , so I educated my self in third reich , for knowing how to avoid a fourth one. So please dont talk over the third reich as a phrase , it was real and it was horrible and has nothing to do with making an offensive Cartoon. Andi __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071distributionid=0066 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru news - finders keepers
Thaddeus Besedin wrote: Germany has laws guaranteeing landowners their gifts from the sky; As Martin said, be sure that you can back up your claims - there is no such law in Germany. It seems that you don't have the best sources of information... or are you making such things up to fit your theories? Regards, Norbert Classen __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ITS the end of the world
It appears to be coming directly at us so we see the large coma and no tail Jerry Flaherty __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Science article on Stardust samples
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:59:53 -0400, you wrote: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/318/5850/613 Full paper (minus illustrations), courtesy of Anne O'Nymous. http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tmp/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P]
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:38:04 +0100, you wrote: We have had perfect skies for days to observeup to the day that Holmes flared upovercast ever since! :-( Same here. In fact, my area has been in the midst of the worst drought in our recorded history. But guess what's been happening the last couple of nights? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE : Re: morrocan and americain influence on pairing
hello anne and marcin. i understoood what you sad anne yesterday but i went late to bed very tired from a little trip , sorry if i didn't answer fast. i agree with you that there must be a structural organization for meteorite and labs,and dealers. but there is many problem and marcin had explain fataly well , what is happening in NWA market. this is exactly what i would like to say. concerning casablanca i get a talk lately in france with dr chennaoui and they need time to buy machine and microprobe and all the rest so uneversity of casablanca is not ready yet. but we are working with europe labs and it's going fantastic with dr jambon by example he is fast and doing a fantastic job with all the integrity that acadimique work needs , and there is on the road some fanstastic news about some incredible meteorite. thanks anne and marcin i apreciate your comment much aziz the habibi --- PolandMET [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : I agree with Greg only as far as this is concerned. The problem could and should be taken care of at the source. It would be relatively easy for Moroccan dealers to get together when a new meteorite appears, like the new one from Mali or this Lodranite or the many-numbered Shergottite. You could put the whole mass aside and send just one sample of 20 grams to the University of Casablanca. You would probably get a response with a month or 2 and then you could all put the meteorite on the market at the same time. And with just ONE number. Dear Annie This could happend in ideal world, and we not live there :) In Morocco live not 5 dealers but maybe 50 or 100 bigger or smaller, moroccans, nomads and who else work with our stones. Some are more educated in meteorites some less, some deals only with meteorites and some only from time to time. Its just impossible to organize them. They protecting their sources and they customers from each other. This is competition who find more meteorites and sell more expensive. Also how we could get one number for our stones if we live all over the world ? We also protect our sources, everyone want be first to offer new material and noone will wait for me or for You till You show what You have and You send samples or photos to compare etc.Yep, how we can be sure that we all have the same material and we can all together send only one 20g sample ? Comparing on photos ? Not. Sending slices to every other dealer to compare my material with Yours ? Not. Tell You where I bough it ? I dont even think that anyone tell me where he buying his stuff. Some material show loong after its premiere. For example my specimen of MC046. I dont need to be Ted Bunch to know with number its paired but I dont make photos pairing or ask others if I can use their numbers, but make my own classification like we all do. So I think we must accept this situation. There is no possible to solve this problem if beetween us and meteorites work 10 or 20 middleman's. Even if You come to morocco and want to buy all samples of meteorites (like Mali or latest shergottite) there will be alvays some samples that You will not find or even they will be sold like something else (lodranite as chondrite, lunar as eucrite) and someone else will buy it and make new classification becouse he dont know that his 500g is part of Yours 50kg. And at lest 500g sells better than 50kg so I dont expectthat that all dealers will split together even if its possible. We CARE as much as we can on meteorites in this situation. I alvays make detailed photos of main mass before cuting, sending type specimens, looking for possible pairings etc. But thats all I can do. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 _ Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Science article on Stardust samples
Darren: Please thank Anne for the article! :-) It is something that I can use in my class. I would like to meet her some day. Does she go to the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show? Larry On Fri, October 26, 2007 7:15 am, Darren Garrison wrote: On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:59:53 -0400, you wrote: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/318/5850/613 Full paper (minus illustrations), courtesy of Anne O'Nymous. http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tmp/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P]
Hi list, I was able to observe the comet last night. The southern hemisphere is disfavoured, we have clear skies though... It is a bright star for the unaided eye, in a 10x50 it appears as a small bright circular disk. The 4 Newtonian reveals a circular disk with a bright center, just outside the center of the disk. I made some fotos. I used a Canon EOS 350D digital camera and a 300m lens, took 30 exposures of 1 each and stacked. Then I used a Larson-Sekanina algorithm to reveal a shell structure, yet no eruptions or jets. Look here for the pics: (the german words are the same what I described here, basically): (scoll down) http://www.meteoros.de/php/viewtopic.php?p=23601#23601 Clear skies, Jan -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: 26.10.07 16:22:15 An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P] On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:38:04 +0100, you wrote: We have had perfect skies for days to observeup to the day that Holmes flared upovercast ever since! :-( Same here. In fact, my area has been in the midst of the worst drought in our recorded history. But guess what's been happening the last couple of nights? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Jetzt neu! Im riesigen WEB.DE Club SmartDrive Dateien freigeben und mit Freunden teilen! http://www.freemail.web.de/club/smartdrive_ttc.htm/?mc=021134 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] comet Holmes 17P
Hi list, I was able to observe the comet last night. The southern hemisphere is disfavoured, we have clear skies though... It is a bright star for the unaided eye, in a 10x50 it appears as a small bright circular disk. The 4 Newtonian reveals a circular disk with a bright center, just outside the center of the disk. I made some fotos. I used a Canon EOS 350D digital camera and a 300m lens, took 30 exposures of 1 each and stacked. Then I used a Larson-Sekanina algorithm to reveal a shell structure, yet no eruptions or jets. Look here for the pics: (the german words are the same what I described here, basically): (scoll down) http://www.meteoros.de/php/viewtopic.php?p=23601#23601 Clear skies, Jan __ Jetzt neu! Im riesigen WEB.DE Club SmartDrive Dateien freigeben und mit Freunden teilen! http://www.freemail.web.de/club/smartdrive_ttc.htm/?mc=021134 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
Thanks, Darren I'm not debating this. I could have said Visigoths, or Vandals or Seljuks of Rum. Imapct was it. --- Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing Peru's scientists as being confused about the need to preserve their one and only meteorite fall from disentigrating. The Third Reich never really entered my mind. You have some serious issues, please deal with them.Michael Farmer I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law (Also Sturgeon's Law) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] self-rightous posturing, African Bias, and The Pearl
Without citation, I'm self-righteous (or self confirming), but a book by Steinbeck, called The Pearl, is appropriate for the problem of inequality and prejudice that the meteorite trade can perpetuate by affecting prices and wrinkling reputations. You guys all think I'm on one by now; some people like Mike or myself are vocal about things we may later regret. My problem, it seems, is premature inclusion of misleading non-information as premises for argument (I'm a victim of continental philosophy), but scientific facts, like carbon dates or climate models, are NEVER distorted in my posts. My difficulty is with legal citation, it seems. So, facts and some fallacy, but not shams and lies... . WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE oF INFORMATION, though. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru news - finders keepers
My Dear Thaddeus, You seem to take meteorite dealer hating to a new level. I have always been amazed at the collectors who resent the People who bring them meteorites. There seems always to be That contingent that thinks NO ONE should make a living, Selling meteorites regardless of how hard they work, what risks they take or how much capital they invest. Your viewing such Activity as fascist is not surprising, since you seam to have a Socialistic if not communistic view of being owed the meteorites You want without having to compensate those who provide them. It is quite simple: if you don't want to pay what is asked, Don't - if you do, then do. But to whine about it like a school Girl is a sad thing to see in a grown man. To accuse a dealer Or dealers of behaving like Nazis is taking it to a level beyond The outrageous. A fully adequate response here would take a good deal more Time than I shall spend here. However, the topic is certainly Worthy of an article. Sincerely, Michael Blood on 10/26/07 5:47 AM, Thaddeus Besedin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are driven by an interest in the material, surely, but I think here that you may not have been translating subtleties of context here as I may have intend to communicate. I strictly compare Mike's attitude to that of a trafficker in contraband, except for his hesitation to control his public declarations of his ethnic contempt. To comment on how value can become at all, in the pursuit of accumulation of a natural object, which may have required more or less labor to locate than an equally-valued object, I emphasize that, among all goods and services, no effort to strip the veneer of commercialization from the fetishized object of consumption need be made. When meteorite tokens are on the mind, it is obvious that this list and few other arenas can alone be held responsible for value-generation by creating demand without campaign advertising and branding. Desire to buy is not just some emanation. We demand far beyond base consumption as a gesture of identity-building, and to privately indulge in waste, among other reasons. It is necessary, then, to manipulate potential buyers that have only periodic demand for a substitute product, say car restoration supplies, kites, video games, etc. To back up with citation something like the well-known, historically recorded aspirations of Nazi Germany to become like their predecessor, e.g. the Holy Roman Empire, is redundant. Trafficking can also be constituted indirectly, with a conniving nod to the violators in other places in the world where sources of material are abundant, yet enforcement is fraught with corruption, a situation fortuitously taken advantage of by dealers. If envy is the reason that authorities arrest people in the situation that Mike finds himself in, then Mike would be dead and gone by now. I munch hummus, by the way. Do you goose-step? I am not equating Mike himself with traffickers, but escaping from a country to avoid a possible arrest that cannot be verified to have possibly, with any certainty,to have potentially occurred at all, and with many others seemingly escaping with no concern or fear for some sort of threat to their freedom, is inconsistent with innocence for every transaction that Mike has been involved in. He knew that the police had confiscated property. Property must remain as evidence. This is tantamount to buying cocaine from a corrupt cop responsible for inventory of an evidence locker. Germany has laws guaranteeing landowners their gifts from the sky; disparity of political and economic conditions is such that no comparison can be made to the conduct of a legal system in another sovereign country. Finally, laws should not alone dictate a maximum degree of ethical self-restraint. -Thaddeus --- Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know, may you explain, why you ask from meteorite dealers a higher moral standard or ethical behaviour than from the fastfood chain, where you're munching your burgers, the power authorities, which are heating your home, the carmaker, where you bought your car from, our butcher, baker, supermarket on the end of the food supply industry chain, where you're buying your food? Additionally the list policies require, that you can back your statements with facts. If you bring the meteorite dealers in context with looters, traffickers, thieves, Then please be so kind to quote here word by word the laws regarding meteorites of those countries, wherefrom meteorites are coming, which are dealt. It's so easy to point with the finger always on others and to voice allegations without having to back them. Here you have a list of all states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states Please add to each state the quotation of its legislation concerning meteorites (note that in federally organized states,
[meteorite-list] Lodranite vs ACAP
Dear List, Not trying to put a damper on the flowing champagne, but I am hearing conflicting thoughts from different scientists regarding the rules of whether a meteorite should be classified as an ACAP or a Lodranite. I know it is grain size, but this is where I am hearing different references. Does anyone, Jeff Grossman, Bernd, or others have scientific documents that are accepted by the NomCom that clearly show the rules and guidelines? The more the better to see if there are discrepancies in what has been adopted. What is the average grain size for the ACAP grouping being discussed: NWA 2656 NWA 2699 NWA 2714 NWA 2866 NWA 2871 NWA 2989 NWA 4399 and others. Thank you for any light that can be shed on this subject. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
Hi, No laws need be invoked. The process is an endogenous one. I have just completed an analysis of Thaddeus' last 37 (a prime number) posts and have graphed their frequency against their cross product of their fractal dimension and the inverse of their entropy. I have discovered a series of increases in his posting frequency which doubles with a value that increasingly approaches that of every 4.6692 reiterations. That number is the Feigenbaum constant, of course, and reveals their content to be a one-dimensional chaos with a period-doubling attractor. Shortly, their fractal dimension will fall to zero, their entropy will rise to infinity, and their source, the hypothetical Thaddeus Entity, will undergo quantum evaporation. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds. On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing Peru's scientists as being confused about the need to preserve their one and only meteorite fall from disentigrating. The Third Reich never really entered my mind. You have some serious issues, please deal with them.Michael Farmer I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law (Also Sturgeon's Law) __ - Original Message - From: Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] self-rightous posturing, African Bias,and The Pearl Without citation, I'm self-righteous (or self confirming), but a book by Steinbeck, called The Pearl, is appropriate for the problem of inequality and prejudice that the meteorite trade can perpetuate by affecting prices and wrinkling reputations. You guys all think I'm on one by now; some people like Mike or myself are vocal about things we may later regret. My problem, it seems, is premature inclusion of misleading non-information as premises for argument (I'm a victim of continental philosophy), but scientific facts, like carbon dates or climate models, are NEVER distorted in my posts. My difficulty is with legal citation, it seems. So, facts and some fallacy, but not shams and lies... . WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE oF INFORMATION, though. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lodranite vs ACAP
Hello Greg and List, Not trying to put a damper on the flowing champagne, but I am hearing conflicting thoughts from different scientists regarding the rules of whether a meteorite should be classified as an ACAP or a Lodranite. I know it is grain size, but this is where I am hearing different references. But: It is not only grain size! ... and that's why this excerpt from an article in MAPS may be of interest in this context: TERRIBILINI D. et al. (2000) Evidence for common breakup events of the acapulcoites-lodranites and chondrites (MAPS 35-5, 2000, pp. 1043-1050). GRA 95209 . is considered a lodranite based on petrography (McCoy and Carlson, 1998), but Mittlefehldt and Lindstrom (1998) find that the bulk-rock composition is more similar to acapulcoites and quite different from that of lodranites. Thus, a clear-cut classification is difficult. Best wishes, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
Yo Sterling, Well stated (I think). Do you write for that brillient sitcom THE BIG BANG? Best wishes, Michael on 10/26/07 10:27 AM, Sterling K. Webb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, No laws need be invoked. The process is an endogenous one. I have just completed an analysis of Thaddeus' last 37 (a prime number) posts and have graphed their frequency against their cross product of their fractal dimension and the inverse of their entropy. I have discovered a series of increases in his posting frequency which doubles with a value that increasingly approaches that of every 4.6692 reiterations. That number is the Feigenbaum constant, of course, and reveals their content to be a one-dimensional chaos with a period-doubling attractor. Shortly, their fractal dimension will fall to zero, their entropy will rise to infinity, and their source, the hypothetical Thaddeus Entity, will undergo quantum evaporation. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds. On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing Peru's scientists as being confused about the need to preserve their one and only meteorite fall from disentigrating. The Third Reich never really entered my mind. You have some serious issues, please deal with them.Michael Farmer I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law (Also Sturgeon's Law) __ - Original Message - From: Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] self-rightous posturing, African Bias,and The Pearl Without citation, I'm self-righteous (or self confirming), but a book by Steinbeck, called The Pearl, is appropriate for the problem of inequality and prejudice that the meteorite trade can perpetuate by affecting prices and wrinkling reputations. You guys all think I'm on one by now; some people like Mike or myself are vocal about things we may later regret. My problem, it seems, is premature inclusion of misleading non-information as premises for argument (I'm a victim of continental philosophy), but scientific facts, like carbon dates or climate models, are NEVER distorted in my posts. My difficulty is with legal citation, it seems. So, facts and some fallacy, but not shams and lies... . WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE oF INFORMATION, though. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- God doesn't look at how much we do, but with how much love we do it. Mother Teresa -- When Jesus said, Love your enemies I think he probably meant don't kill them. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
Sterling List, I was thinking exactly the same...;-) John At 10:27 AM 10/26/2007, Sterling K. Webb wrote: Hi, No laws need be invoked. The process is an endogenous one. I have just completed an analysis of Thaddeus' last 37 (a prime number) posts and have graphed their frequency against their cross product of their fractal dimension and the inverse of their entropy. I have discovered a series of increases in his posting frequency which doubles with a value that increasingly approaches that of every 4.6692 reiterations. That number is the Feigenbaum constant, of course, and reveals their content to be a one-dimensional chaos with a period-doubling attractor. Shortly, their fractal dimension will fall to zero, their entropy will rise to infinity, and their source, the hypothetical Thaddeus Entity, will undergo quantum evaporation. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds. On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing Peru's scientists as being confused about the need to preserve their one and only meteorite fall from disentigrating. The Third Reich never really entered my mind. You have some serious issues, please deal with them.Michael Farmer I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law (Also Sturgeon's Law) __ - Original Message - From: Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] self-rightous posturing, African Bias,and The Pearl Without citation, I'm self-righteous (or self confirming), but a book by Steinbeck, called The Pearl, is appropriate for the problem of inequality and prejudice that the meteorite trade can perpetuate by affecting prices and wrinkling reputations. You guys all think I'm on one by now; some people like Mike or myself are vocal about things we may later regret. My problem, it seems, is premature inclusion of misleading non-information as premises for argument (I'm a victim of continental philosophy), but scientific facts, like carbon dates or climate models, are NEVER distorted in my posts. My difficulty is with legal citation, it seems. So, facts and some fallacy, but not shams and lies... . WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE oF INFORMATION, though. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New email address
Hi I have some spam problems on my main email [EMAIL PROTECTED] so I got two new emails Please use this emails as PolandMET main emails from now. marcin (at) meteoryty.pl marcin (at) meteorite.pl Old emails will work also. Thank You -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin (at) meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin (at) meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] COMET HOLMES LONG LIVED?
http://www.space.com/spacewatch/071026-comet-holmes-update.html Dramatic Comet Outburst Could Last Weeks By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer posted: 26 October 2007 02:09 pm ET A comet that suddenly brightened earlier this week has astronomers around the globe fascinated. And the show could go on for some time. Comet Holmes, discovered in 1892, had in recent years been visible only through telescopes until a dramatic outburst made it visible to the naked eye. In fewer than 24 hours, it brightened by a factor of nearly 400,000. It has now brightened by a factor of a million times what it was before the outburst, a change absolutely unprecedented in the annals of cometary astronomy, said Joe Rao, SPACE.com's Skywatching Columnist. The comet is now rivaling some of the brighter stars in the sky. Anyone with a map should be able to spot it now. But Comet Holmes lacks a tail, so it's more like a fuzzy, yellow star, observers report. The view is improved with a small telescope. This is a terrific outburst, said Brian Marsden, director emeritus of the Minor Planet Center, which tracks known comets and asteroids. And since it doesn't have a tail right now, some observers have confused it with a nova. We've had at least two reports of a new star. The comet could fade in a matter of days or weeks, according to a statement from the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. Comet expert John Bortle expects the comet to continue as a naked-eye object for the next few weeks as it dims gradually. Bortle said the coma, or fuzzy head of the comet, could expand as weeks go by. The coma could reach the apparent size of the moon in the sky, he said. The comet is located among the stars of the constellation Perseus, which is about halfway up in the northeast sky in the evening. Perseus is almost directly overhead by around 2 a.m. local daylight time and remains well up in the northwest at dawn. The comet was plainly visible, disturbing the normal pattern of stars that make up Perseus, Rao said after observiing it last night. The comet orbits the Sun once every seven years at a distance of about 200 million miles (compared to Earth's 93-million-mile orbit). It was re-observed in 1899 and 1906 before being lost for nearly six decades. Based on a prediction by Marsden, the comet was found again in 1964. Since then, it's been behaving well-until now, Marsden said. Astronomers don't know why the outburst occurred. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad Ebay auctions ending soon
Hi All I have several meteorite and meteorite book auctions ending today; http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteorfinder Highlights include; Giant Meteorites by Krinov Exceptionally rare and still one of my favorite meteorite books. Bids are not at reserve but has been set at only $200 http://cgi.ebay.com/Giant-Meteorites-by-E-L-Krinov-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ200164821822 Krinovs other fine and ever rarer book Principals of Meteoritics. Reserve is a very low $200 http://cgi.ebay.com/Principals-of-Meteoritics-by-E-L-Krinov-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ200164822637 Original 1955 Russian language version of Principals of Meteoritics. Reserve is met but only at $152.50 http://cgi.ebay.com/Principals-of-Meteoritics-by-E-L-Krinov-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ200164822482 Out of the Sky Signed inscribed and dated by the legend. No reserve and only at $26.00! http://cgi.ebay.com/Nininger-signed-Out-of-The-Sky-Hardcover-edition-Rare_W0QQitemZ200164822121 Nice whole partially crusted Mars shergottite barely over $50. No reserve on this one either. http://cgi.ebay.com/NWA-Martian-0-907-g-whole-stone-with-crust-Meteorite_W0QQitemZ200164841684 Several other meteorites still at 95 cents. -- Mike -- Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
Hola All, The trouble with this fellow's logic is namely that he appears to believe that the study of weathering effects on meteorites is more important than the study of what is (at this point, probably 'was') likely the largest fresh sample of the remnants of a solar nebula currently on the planet... If you'd like to study weathering effects on anything, go buy a Juancheng, Amgala, Mali, etc - something of which there's a lot about and available for study. There's simply no reason to destroy such a unique and scientifically important sample...merely to see how quickly it becomes destroyed, especially when such a meager amount has made it into scientific hands, never mind those of anyone else. To be perfectly frank, I wouldn't put a Rembrandt out in the rain for a study regarding how quickly paint weathers outdoors...I daresay you wouldn't either. With regards to rock splitting and your statement: We take our technologies for granted, but when do we ever try for ourselves? I don't know about you, but I haven't used an arrowhead in...well, ever. Interesting statement, but a nonsequiter. Nice try at changing the subject... Why don't you stop being so damn contrary just for the hell of it - it's obvious what you're doing, Thaddeus. If you have a bone to pick with Michael, whoever you really are, keep it off-list, please. It's not giving anyone anything remotely close to useful information. Jason On 10/26/07, JKGwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sterling List, I was thinking exactly the same...;-) John At 10:27 AM 10/26/2007, Sterling K. Webb wrote: Hi, No laws need be invoked. The process is an endogenous one. I have just completed an analysis of Thaddeus' last 37 (a prime number) posts and have graphed their frequency against their cross product of their fractal dimension and the inverse of their entropy. I have discovered a series of increases in his posting frequency which doubles with a value that increasingly approaches that of every 4.6692 reiterations. That number is the Feigenbaum constant, of course, and reveals their content to be a one-dimensional chaos with a period-doubling attractor. Shortly, their fractal dimension will fall to zero, their entropy will rise to infinity, and their source, the hypothetical Thaddeus Entity, will undergo quantum evaporation. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds. On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing Peru's scientists as being confused about the need to preserve their one and only meteorite fall from disentigrating. The Third Reich never really entered my mind. You have some serious issues, please deal with them.Michael Farmer I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law (Also Sturgeon's Law) __ - Original Message - From: Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] self-rightous posturing, African Bias,and The Pearl Without citation, I'm self-righteous (or self confirming), but a book by Steinbeck, called The Pearl, is appropriate for the problem of inequality and prejudice that the meteorite trade can perpetuate by affecting prices and wrinkling reputations. You guys all think I'm on one by now; some people like Mike or myself are vocal about things we may later regret. My problem, it seems, is premature inclusion of misleading non-information as premises for argument (I'm a victim of continental philosophy), but scientific facts, like carbon dates or climate models, are NEVER distorted in my posts. My difficulty is with legal citation, it seems. So, facts and some fallacy, but not shams and lies... . WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE oF INFORMATION, though. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MORE HOLMES NEWS'N'VIEWS
Hi, Holmes Watchers and Watcher Wannabees, One thing we can say is that this comet has proven that the usual comet rules do not seem to apply to it! Something is going on that is outside the comet norm. The usual solar heating of volatiles explanation seems inadequate, particularly since it makes a perihelion passage like last May's every seven-odd years without these displays. It may have suffered a massive impact. It may be in the process of splitting like Biela. It may be doing something we've never observed before (and hence know nothing about). I hope that somebody besides fascinated amateurs are prepared for observations beyond visual impressions. For example, the usual course of an outburst is the development of a variety of jets and fountains which produce distinctive features in the coma (spikes, fans, pinwheels, etc.), but Holmes seems to be producing material in almost perfect spherical symmetry. This implies an uniform rate and speed of ejected material which is difficult to explain. Perhaps so much material at such high densities is being ejected that they are undergoing a scattering process that would uniformatize particle speed. But that would mean a huge volume of material ejected. What I like best about the universe is its surprises. Biggest and Brightest? Melbourne's Herald-Sun, under the headline Comet Homes On Its Way To Brightest in History http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22655772-662,00.html If the brightness continues at this rate, Comet Holmes will soon become the brightest comet in history. Long Lasting? Observer report from Sky Telescope's frequently updated site: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/home/10775326.html Used the 12.5-inch reflector at 75x, 110x, and 180x. A brilliant, starlike, white nucleus is dead center in the perfectly round coma. What looked like the nucleus in the binoculars is an inner coma or broad fan offset from the nucleus toward the southwest. At these magnifications the bright round disk is no longer perfectly sharp-edged, but still nearly so. It also has a slight but definite ring appearance, as if some of the light is coming from a hollow, spherical, glowing shell. Farther out beyond this is a much dimmer round glow with about twice the diameter of the bright disk. Only out this far does the brilliant skylight of the perigean full Moon not far away begin to matter. This was at 1 a.m. EDT (5:00 UT) October 26th with the comet (and Moon) near the zenith. Still mag. 2.7 naked-eye. My bet is this comet will stay bright for a long while. The yellow-white color is dust reflecting sunlight, and dust is what keeps a comet bright. As opposed to gas (comet gas is green and blue), which blows away quickly in the solar wind. Also, the brilliant stellar nucleus and the inner-coma fan suggest that the nucleus is still producing a lot of dust. This comet won't fade out soon. As for a tail: I expect it'll be short and stubby when or if it forms. The tail should be pointing more or less away from Earth in space; we're looking down its length since the comet is only about 45 [degrees] away from the point in the sky opposite the Sun. The size of this angle won't change a lot in the next couple months. Brightest Comet in History? It will have to reach magnitude -4 to be visible in daylight, and it has stiff competition for that title! Please note that most of these made a very close perihelion passage; Holmes did not. Most are super-bright because they are observed very close to the Sun; Holmes is not. Whatever it's doing, it's not the same as the superheating episodes that created these bright comets. GREAT COMET OF 1744: First sighted on Nov. 29, 1743 as a dim fourth magnitude object, this comet brightened rapidly as it approached the Sun. Many textbooks often cite Philippe Loys de Cheseaux, of Lausanne, Switzerland as the discoverer, although his first sighting did not come until two weeks later. By mid-January 1744, the comet was described as 1st-magnitude with a 7-degree tail. By Feb. 1 it rivaled Sirius and displayed a curved tail, 15-degrees in length. By Feb. 18 the comet was equal to Venus and now displayed two tails. On Feb. 27, it peaked at magnitude -7 and was reported visible in the daytime, 12-degrees from the Sun. Perihelion came on March 1st, at a distance of 20.5 million miles from the Sun. On March 6, the comet appeared in the morning sky, accompanied by six brilliant tails which resembled a Japanese hand fan. GREAT COMET OF 1843: This comet was a member of the Kruetz Sungrazing Comet Group, which has produced some of the most brilliant comets in recorded history. It passed only 126,000 miles from the Sun's photosphere on Feb. 27, 1843. Although a few observations suggest that it was seen for a few weeks prior to this date, on the day when it made it closest approach to the Sun it was widely observed in full daylight.
Re: [meteorite-list] ALOD vs ACAP
Here's a more recent article, about the relation of Acap-Lod and models of the parent body: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2007/pdf/2254.pdf Best too Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2007 22:20 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] ALOD vs ACAP Greg inquired: What is the average grain size for the ACAP grouping being discussed HUTCHISON R. (2004) Meteorites: A Petrologic, Chemical, and Isotopic Synthesis (Cambridge Planetary Science Series, pp. 506)-Excerpt, p. 252: Table 8.2 Properties of primitive achondrite groups Grain size: Acapulcoites: 150-230µm (= 0.15-0.23 mm) Lodranites: 340-700µm (= 0.34-0.70 mm) Well, as for my NWA 2871 thin section, I find grains measuring 0.42, 0.52, 0.59 mm. That would be an average grain size of 0.51 mm for these three counts - well within the range for lodranites but bulk rock composition (see my previous post to the List) may speak a different language. I'm still waiting for John Kashuba and Roger Warin to chime in. Friday, May 18, 2007, Roger and myself exchanged emails re: Tafassasset and NWA 2871 and Roger wrote: «Voilà comme je définissais l'acapulcoite NWA 2871: ... » Well, let's leave it up to Roger what exactly he wrote but I am sure several list members would appreciate his assessment very much - Roger are you out there? Best wishes, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ALOD vs ACAP
Greg inquired: What is the average grain size for the ACAP grouping being discussed HUTCHISON R. (2004) Meteorites: A Petrologic, Chemical, and Isotopic Synthesis (Cambridge Planetary Science Series, pp. 506)-Excerpt, p. 252: Table 8.2 Properties of primitive achondrite groups Grain size: Acapulcoites: 150-230µm (= 0.15-0.23 mm) Lodranites: 340-700µm (= 0.34-0.70 mm) Well, as for my NWA 2871 thin section, I find grains measuring 0.42, 0.52, 0.59 mm. That would be an average grain size of 0.51 mm for these three counts - well within the range for lodranites but bulk rock composition (see my previous post to the List) may speak a different language. I'm still waiting for John Kashuba and Roger Warin to chime in. Friday, May 18, 2007, Roger and myself exchanged emails re: Tafassasset and NWA 2871 and Roger wrote: «Voilà comme je définissais l'acapulcoite NWA 2871: ... » Well, let's leave it up to Roger what exactly he wrote but I am sure several list members would appreciate his assessment very much - Roger are you out there? Best wishes, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Comet 17P/Holmes MAJOR NEWS UPDATE!
I just heard about an hour ago 3 Wise men on camels from the East were seen following the star Comet Holmes 17P and heading toward Bethlehem! LoL Don M __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mali meteorite: racism, to begin / Time for Thaddeus to go!
Hi Mike, Let's email Art and get Thaddeus off the list. Enough is enough. Sonny -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 2:54 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mali meteorite: racism, to begin WOW, you must be off your meds. Art, I get censored, so this language is not permitted on the list. This is a sick email. This guy hates everyone and everything who does not subscribe to his ideas of leaving every rock where it lands and thinks that every purchase is a theft. Anyone know who he is? Michael Farmer --- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every time our friends from thedark continent have something that you may potentially let go of your rent for, you doubt it. It's always a scam. I read about good old boys here on the list ripping you off (how COULD they!), and it's as if the phrase they're all the same is the first thing that pops up, though not in so many words. It took a white man to convince you. How fucking typical. Go collect state quarters and get your fingers out of your mouths! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] cartoon
Hi all - This Carancas story is getting to be quite an epic - I wonder if anyone will write it all up for Meteorite magazine. I am sure that Mr Gregory's emails have taken their toll on Mike, but I doubt if Mike helped himself with the people of Peru with that offensive cartoon. Thaddeus's comment about cokeheads was uncalled for, as chewing coca leaves alleviates altitude sickness. The only comments that I have are to note the difference between this and the Moss recovery, to note what a class act Bob Haag was and is, and to note that the strewn field is still there, which may hopefully end up putting a little money in the hands of the local people. My opinion is that a main mass, if it survived, should be displayed down at the Lake instead of in Lima. Gentlemen and ladies, could we keep a certain level of civility here? good hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: MORE COMET HOLMES #3 (Sterling K. Webb) 2. Re: MORE COMET HOLMES (mexicodoug) 3. Re: morrocan and americain influence on pairing (PolandMET) 4. Mali meteorite: racism, to begin (Thaddeus Besedin) 5. Re: Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds. (Thaddeus Besedin) 6. 34g Millbillillie and historic Texas fall - AD ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 7. Re: discoidal rock receptacles (Thaddeus Besedin) 8. Re: Peru news - finders keepers (Thaddeus Besedin) 9. Re: Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds. (Michael Farmer) 10. Re: Mali meteorite: racism, to begin (Michael Farmer) 11. Re: Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds. (Thaddeus Besedin) 12. Re: Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds. (Thaddeus Besedin) 13. Re: Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds. (Michael Farmer) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:00:13 -0500 From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MORE COMET HOLMES #3 To: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, 6.7 arc minute is 469,000 km at 17P's distance. 13-17 arc minutes is 910,000 to 1,190,000 km. The first brightening was observed at Tennerife just after local midnight, October 24, or about 52-54 hours ago. If the bright coma radius is now 235,000 km, it's been expanding at roughly 4500 km/hour and the extended coma at 10,000 km/hour. Another 24 hours (Friday night) would add 216,000 km to the bright coma diameter, or 685,000 km (9.7 arc minutes). This is about 1/3 of the size of the Full Moon (which is 30 arc minutes). A second 24 hours of expansion would take the bright coma up nearly half the size of the Full Moon. (Of course, the expansion is not necessarily linear, but it may in fact expand faster than the linear... for a while.) Another of tonight's observations posted at the Sky and Telescope site: From ST's Alan MacRobert: Omigod. thin clouds lit by the full Moon I had to guess where Perseus was, but I swept around with 10x50 binoculars, and wham, there was the comet! It's sure not starlike now, at least not in the 10x binocs with homemade image stabilization. It's a very sizeable bright fuzz spot, perfectly round, with a large, brilliant, hazy nucleus and a very sharp edge to the circular coma. Golden yellow with just a hint of green. When the clouds finally cleared and I could see it with the naked eye, it was still starlike to my vision. Magnitude 2.6 or 2.7. (Apparently you can just barely see the green, with big enough binoculars. Carbon monoxide like Hyutake?) IF (big if) this is a mega-outburst and the brightening lasts until Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, we will have 1, 2 , and 3 hours of dark sky with the comet in the sky at the beginning of night before the Moon rises (varies with lattitude). My local Weather Prophets say clear here by Saturday --- keep going, Holmesie! May you get big and bright enough that ordinary people look up and say, What The H*** is THAT Thing? Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List
[meteorite-list] 17P Holmes
Hi all - (My earlier post on this appears not to have made it to the list.) Does anyone know yet how the outgassing (and whatever caused it) has affected 17P's orbit? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 17P Holmes
It requires only a tiny percent of the mass to be ejected in order to produce an immense coma. Furthermore, the mass almost certainly was ejected at low velocity, and seems to be fairly isotropic. The apparent motion of the comet is quite low now, so it will take some time to get enough measurements to accurately calculate the orbital elements. But I rather expect that the effect of the outgassing on the orbit is very small. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] 17P Holmes Hi all - (My earlier post on this appears not to have made it to the list.) Does anyone know yet how the outgassing (and whatever caused it) has affected 17P's orbit? E.P. Grondine __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Comet 17P/Holmes MAJOR NEWS UPDATE!
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:57:06 -0400, you wrote: I just heard about an hour ago 3 Wise men on camels from the East were seen following the star Comet Holmes 17P and heading toward Bethlehem! Be on the lookout for rough beasts. Especially ones who slouch.. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re-2: ALOD vs ACAP
Here's a more recent article, about the relation of Acap-Lod and models of the parent body: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2007/pdf/2254.pdf Quoting from that article: The grainsize distinction between acapulcoites and lodranites is taken to be at 500 µm [1]. [1] McCoy T. J. et al. (1996) Geochim.Cosmochim. Acta 61, 2861-2708; McCoy T. J. et al. (1997) Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta 61, 623-637 639-650 This grainsize distinction would make NWA 2871 a so-called borderline case Best wishes, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: October 22-26, 2007
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES October 22-26, 2007 o Many Channels (Released 22 October 2007) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20071022a o Arsia Flows (Released 23 October 2007) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20071023a o Back In View (Released 24 October 2007) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20071024a o Aurorae Chaos (Released 25 October 2007) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20071025a o Sirenum Fossae (Released 26 October 2007) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20071026a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ... summarizes the death of a thread
To say that Peruvians are, as suggested by Mike, primitive and backwards, when no large impactor may seem to have survived an impact directly through a thin Ap/A/C, muddy alluvial soil an hitting an R horizon of equivalent friablity (or should i say equivalent hardness) is hardly some attack on Mike for the sake of attack. I have a feeling that this is becoming purely some criticism of my alleged communist beliefs? I don't need to tell you what I believe philosophically. You can figure it out. I am no communist, but there are many types of communist. I don't think that weathering studies are more important than gas/composition/fragmentary structural/etc. studies, but, to broadly flash science as a reason to take a single action, to exhume a ghost of a rock is perhaps like cutting paper with paper. When did science stop and non-science begin? Peruvian scientists are not represented fairly here, and sensitive situations are not grounds for racist humor. I believe, if there is a rock, that it can be detected using the usual geophysical methods determining relative resistivity/magnetism/gravity, once the structure can have a pump draining it running around the clock, which can be conducted with no or low impact to the the structure of the crater/pit. Then digging can occur, but why proceed before using detection methods? If it is an ordinary chondrite in the ordinary sense of the word ordinary, then the structure IS more important, at least more unprecedented, than the impactor itself, which may have survived, but probably did not, if we have a pit formed by explosive gaseous means, versus a crater formed through decompressional penetration by a cohesive solid body. -Thaddeus metJason Utas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hola All, The trouble with this fellow's logic is namely that he appears to believe that the study of weathering effects on meteorites is more important than the study of what is (at this point, probably 'was') likely the largest fresh sample of the remnants of a solar nebula currently on the planet... If you'd like to study weathering effects on anything, go buy a Juancheng, Amgala, Mali, etc - something of which there's a lot about and available for study. There's simply no reason to destroy such a unique and scientifically important sample...merely to see how quickly it becomes destroyed, especially when such a meager amount has made it into scientific hands, never mind those of anyone else. To be perfectly frank, I wouldn't put a Rembrandt out in the rain for a study regarding how quickly paint weathers outdoors...I daresay you wouldn't either. With regards to rock splitting and your statement: We take our technologies for granted, but when do we ever try for ourselves? I don't know about you, but I haven't used an arrowhead in...well, ever. Interesting statement, but a nonsequiter. Nice try at changing the subject... Why don't you stop being so damn contrary just for the hell of it - it's obvious what you're doing, Thaddeus. If you have a bone to pick with Michael, whoever you really are, keep it off-list, please. It's not giving anyone anything remotely close to useful information. Jason On 10/26/07, JKGwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sterling List, I was thinking exactly the same...;-) John At 10:27 AM 10/26/2007, Sterling K. Webb wrote: Hi, No laws need be invoked. The process is an endogenous one. I have just completed an analysis of Thaddeus' last 37 (a prime number) posts and have graphed their frequency against their cross product of their fractal dimension and the inverse of their entropy. I have discovered a series of increases in his posting frequency which doubles with a value that increasingly approaches that of every 4.6692 reiterations. That number is the Feigenbaum constant, of course, and reveals their content to be a one-dimensional chaos with a period-doubling attractor. Shortly, their fractal dimension will fall to zero, their entropy will rise to infinity, and their source, the hypothetical Thaddeus Entity, will undergo quantum evaporation. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds. On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing Peru's scientists as being confused about the need to preserve their one and only meteorite fall from disentigrating. The Third Reich never really entered my mind. You have some serious issues, please deal with them.Michael Farmer I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
Oh no. The science wars all over again (http://www.math.tohoku.ac.jp/~kuroki/Sokal/science_wars.html)! Come on, I love that we can touch space, but supplying the pasttime should not eclipse the pasttime. We don't really all need to have every little stone. When does the buying stop? --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, No laws need be invoked. The process is an endogenous one. I have just completed an analysis of Thaddeus' last 37 (a prime number) posts and have graphed their frequency against their cross product of their fractal dimension and the inverse of their entropy. I have discovered a series of increases in his posting frequency which doubles with a value that increasingly approaches that of every 4.6692 reiterations. That number is the Feigenbaum constant, of course, and reveals their content to be a one-dimensional chaos with a period-doubling attractor. Shortly, their fractal dimension will fall to zero, their entropy will rise to infinity, and their source, the hypothetical Thaddeus Entity, will undergo quantum evaporation. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds. On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing Peru's scientists as being confused about the need to preserve their one and only meteorite fall from disentigrating. The Third Reich never really entered my mind. You have some serious issues, please deal with them.Michael Farmer I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law (Also Sturgeon's Law) __ - Original Message - From: Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] self-rightous posturing, African Bias,and The Pearl Without citation, I'm self-righteous (or self confirming), but a book by Steinbeck, called The Pearl, is appropriate for the problem of inequality and prejudice that the meteorite trade can perpetuate by affecting prices and wrinkling reputations. You guys all think I'm on one by now; some people like Mike or myself are vocal about things we may later regret. My problem, it seems, is premature inclusion of misleading non-information as premises for argument (I'm a victim of continental philosophy), but scientific facts, like carbon dates or climate models, are NEVER distorted in my posts. My difficulty is with legal citation, it seems. So, facts and some fallacy, but not shams and lies... . WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE oF INFORMATION, though. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New IAU Journal for Astronomy Communicators Goes Live
http://www.iau.org/iau0701.483.0.html IAU0701: New journal for astronomy communicators goes live! 26 October 2007, Munich: In response to an increasing need among the growing community of astronomy communicators, the International Astronomical Union is today announcing the advent of a new journal called Communicating Astronomy with the Public Journal. Subscriptions to print and online versions are free of charge to communicators. A new peer-reviewed journal released today by the IAU will provide astronomy communicators with important tools and innovative resources to communicate more effectively the workings of the Universe to the public. IAU President Catherine Cesarsky says We are pleased to announce the first issue of the Communicating Astronomy with the Public Journal. The IAU is strongly dedicated to improving the global level of astronomy education and outreach. The journal provides astronomy communicators with a mix of resources, opinion and information on how to communicate more effectively to the general public the workings of the Universe. As Pedro Russo, Editor-In-Chief of the journal, explains, the CAP journal has an important aim: As the astronomy education and public outreach community expands globally, it becomes increasingly important to establish a community of science communication experts. President of IAU Commission 55 Communicating Astronomy with the Public, Ian Robson: Astronomy has an innate appeal to people of all ages, partly because it concerns the fascinating great questions 'of life, the Universe and everything' and partly because many of the data obtained with telescopes can be presented as objects of stunning beauty. Astronomy is a great example of how fascinating physics can be. Science communicators are encouraged to submit their own articles for publication explains Russo. Public communication of astronomy is a burgeoning field of science communication. We would like to see the astronomy outreach community deeply involved in this journal's evolution and production. The journal will be published quarterly for free in print and online. It will act as a repository of ideas for astronomy communicators; for example in use with activities as part of the International Year of Astronomy 2009 which will be a global celebration of astronomy and its contributions to society and culture. Pedro Russo, also IAU Coordinator for the International Year of Astronomy 2009, explains The next few years will be extremely important for astronomy communication and education. The International Year of Astronomy 2009 will serve as a unique platform to inform the public about the latest discoveries in astronomy. The first two issues are sponsored by the European Space Agency, the International Astronomical Union, Instituto de Astrofísica de Canarias (Spain) and ESO. Free subscription forms and the online version of the journal can be found at www.capjournal.org ### Notes for editors The CAP Journal is published by the IAU DIVISION XII Commission 55 Communicating Astronomy with the Public (http://www.communicatingastronomy.org). The journal is divided into nine main sections. The Research Applications section contains peer-reviewed science communication 'research articles. News and Announcements present information and updates, such as conference reports from the astronomy outreach community. Resources and Innovation provide a repository of outreach ideas and cutting-edge astronomy communication methods respectively. Best Practices aims to be a guide, containing case studies, to the techniques that work best in communicating astronomy. Opinion provides space for subjective discussions of topics related to astronomy communication. The IAU is the international astronomical organisation that brings together almost 10,000 distinguished astronomers from all nations of the world. Its mission is to promote and safeguard the science of astronomy in all its aspects through international cooperation. The IAU also serves as the internationally recognized authority for assigning designations to celestial bodies and any surface features on them. Founded in 1919, the IAU is the world's largest professional body for astronomers. The International Year of Astronomy 2009 (IYA2009) will be a global celebration of astronomy and its contributions to society and culture. It will stimulate worldwide interest not only in astronomy, but in science in general, with a particular appeal for young people. IYA2009 will portray astronomy as a peaceful global scientific endeavour that unites astronomers in an international, multicultural family of scientists working together to find answers to some of the most fundamental questions that humankind has ever asked. For more information, please contact: Editor-In-Chief/IAU IYA2009 Coordinator Pedro Russo ESO/ESA/ST-ECF Karl-Schwarzschild-Strasse 2 D-85748 Garching bei München Germany Tel: +49 89 320 06 195 Fax: +49 89 320 23 62 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IAU
[meteorite-list] Bill Dale's Grave Found, Willamette Meteorite Co-Discoverer
http://www.bakercityherald.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=5456 Scientist's hunch strikes gold By LISA BRITTON Baker City Herald (Oregon) October 25, 2007 Dick Pugh was just passing time as he thumbed through the annual Memorial Tribute that lists Baker City's deceased back to 1887, and is published every Memorial Day. He looked for his own last name, but no long-lost relatives were listed. Then he scanned for another name. I got to thinking about Bill Dale. And there he was, Pugh said. Pugh is a field scientist with the Cascadia Meteorite Laboratory at Portland State University, and he was in Baker City on Memorial Day for a speaking tour about meteorites at county libraries. Pugh's interest in Bill Dale is this: Dale was in on Ellis Hughes' discovery of the Willamette meteorite in 1902. At 15fi tons, the iron meteorite is the largest in the United States. But no one knew, until Pugh picked up that memorial tribute, where Dale went after the discovery. Nobody's known where Bill Dale's been since 1903, Pugh said. The only clue we had was he was a miner. Baker's mining country. After he found Dale's name, Pugh headed to the Baker City Herald office, which had published the tribute. From there he was sent to Gray's West Co. Pioneer Chapel, where the staff gave him a copy of Dale's obituary. Then Pugh headed to Mount Hope Cemetery and staff there helped him locate Dale's grave. There is no headstone. To find Bill Dale after 104 years, at least for the Willamette meteorite nuts, is pretty important, Pugh said. It was just serendipity. Now, about that meteorite. Hughes and Dale discovered it on land owned by the Oregon Iron and Steel Company in what is now West Linn. The two decided they should buy the land where the meteorite sat, so Dale allegedly took off to sell his property in Baker County. He never returned. Apparently, he came to Baker County. According to a 1932 newspaper clipping about his death, Dale had discovered $32,000 worth of gold on the Virtue property. He owned several mining claims in Washington Gulch, which is where he died Aug. 3, 1932. Dale also, the news story notes, owned farm property in Oregon City. But back to West Linn in 1902. The steel company wouldn't sell, so Hughes stole the meteorite using horse, windlass and steel cable, Pugh said. In 1905 Oregon Iron and Steel filed a suit for the return of the meteorite and won. The massive hunk of iron was later sold and has been at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City since 1906. (A 30-pound chunk of the meteorite will be auctioned Sunday by Bonham's auction house in New York. Its estimated value is around $1.3 million.) Now that Dale's whereabouts are known, Pugh is hoping to gather enough funds between Clackamas and Baker counties to purchase a headstone for Dale's grave. Pugh will be in Baker City on Friday to speak during A Starry Night with LEO, a gathering for those associated with Libraries of Eastern Oregon. Lawson Fusao Inada, Oregon Poet Laureate 2006-08, will also speak. The event starts at 5:30 p.m. at Mad Matilda's, 1917 Main St. Seating is limited, but there is still time to RSVP by calling Susan Brown at 541-442-5123, or e-mailing [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Willamette Meteorite Story
http://www.inlander.com/topstory/289061378211793.php METEOR RIGHTS by JACK NESBET The Pacific Northwest Inlander June 6, 2007 In the fall of 1902, Willamette Valley farmer Ellis Hughes, a humble, intelligent Welshman, (according to Scientific American), was cutting wood near the present town of West Linn when lunchtime came. I sat down on the rock, Hughes later recalled. It was about 1 1/2 feet above the ground and very flat. His work partner, Bill Dale, stared at the picnic bench and realized it was no ordinary stone. Hughes, asked Dale, Have you seen this rock before? Yes, answered Hughes. I saw it yesterday. Then he picked up a large white stone and began to hammer on the rock. It rang like a bell. Hughes, Dale said. I'll bet it is a meteor. Thus begins one version of the Willamette Meteorite story. In another it turns out that Hughes had spent time working in the Australian mining industry and Dale was a wandering prospector; together they had been combing the Willamette Valley for mineral wealth. One day Hughes had noticed the flat rough stone, deeply buried in the ground and obviously different from any rocks around it. The next day he specifically brought his partner out to have a look. After ringing it with the white stone, the pair realized they had found something out of the ordinary and retired to Hughes's farmhouse to parlay about its possibilities. Local lore says that it was Mrs. Hughes who insisted that the only way to capitalize on the find was to bring it home in one piece. The meteor lay on rugged, forested land already claimed by a business named in various accounts as the Oregon Iron and Steel Company, Oregon Steel and Wire, or the Portland Land Company. Bill Dale mysteriously disappeared from the scene, and Ellis Hughes remained very quiet about his discovery, but his plans went deep. After blazing a road about 800 feet in a blind direction so that no neighbors would catch on to his game, he spent several months cutting a direct path between his house and the rock. Next the resourceful Hughes constructed an ingenious car with log body-timbers and sections of tree trunks as wheels. In the summer of 1903, with only his 15-year-old son and a horse for assistants, Ellis Hughes began an odyssey of practical engineering. After clearing away considerable brush from around the meteor, he jacked and blocked and jacked it some more until he raised a dome-shaped space rock roughly the size of a squashed Volkswagen Bug out of its depression and rolled it onto the cart. Then with heavy ropes, pulley blocks, a simple capstan anchored by chains and a hundred feet of wire cable, Hughes laboriously began to inch the meteor down his hacked-out road. It was three-quarters of a mile to the Hughes homestead and many hours were spent locked motionless behind stumps; the greatest distance they gained in any one day was 150 feet. When hard rains fell before the journey was completed, father and son laid a track of rough planks in the mud and carried on. Three months after the meteor was moved from its original landing spot, they finally got it to the farm. Hughes quickly announced a price of 25¢ a head for local curiosity seekers to have a look. In those days an electric streetcar ran from Oregon City to the settlement of Willamette, but after that people had to walk the final two miles for their special viewing. They came in droves anyway, and it didn't take long for word of the oddity to spread to Portland and beyond. In February 1904, a geologist named Henry Ward spent four days riding a train from New York state to Portland, then another two examining Mr. Hughes's odd rock in the pouring rain. Large meteors have long stood as objects of wonder, but the public was particularly interested at the turn of the 20th century. Arctic explorer Robert Peary, an early master of media control, had spent three years in the 1890s recovering pieces of the massive Cape York Meteorite from Greenland and landing them in New York City with much fanfare. So it came as no surprise when Henry Ward's colorfully detailed account of his journey to the Pacific Northwest - published with copious illustrations in March 1904's Proceedings of the Rochester Academy of Science and reprinted in the widely-read Scientific American Supplement in July - caused its own small sensation. In the article, Ward declared that Ellis Hughes had discovered the largest meteor ever recorded in North America and the third-largest ever measured on our planet. He described the rock as a stubby cone, and recognized that Hughes had eaten his lunch on its flattened back side. Ward theorized that the apex of the cone must have formed the leading edge of the missile as it entered the atmosphere, and he described the relentless annealing effects of terrific heat and force as it plunged to Earth. He measured the length of the meteorite at a little more than 10 feet, its breadth across the base as 7 feet, the vertical height to the summit of the dome
Re: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P], continued
Can someone with clear skies give us a report tonight? Thanks, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Willamette Meteorite Story
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:22:54 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: http://www.inlander.com/topstory/289061378211793.php Thanks for posting-- long article but well worth reading, never seen this much detail in one spot before. But... At some point after that, the Willamette Meteorite's crystalline structure recorded a terrific shock and subsequent reheating, then cooling into a very different form. Some scientists interpret this as an event similar to the explosion of the planet that created the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. Who still claims that the asteroid belt was created by the explosion of a planet? Also of note, all people involved in the discovery and transport of the Willamette meteorite HAVE SINCE DIED! The curse of Wematanye is real! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Unique Tektites and Nininger Book
I have a couple of unique tektites ending on e-bay tomorrow. Not classic stretch pieces, but not hundreds of dollars either (at least not yet - feel free to make it so). If tektites interest you, please have a look. Also, let me know if you'd like future notification of tektite-related offerings and I won't spam the whole list - it won't be very often. I have also listed a nice hardcover copy of Arizona's Meteorite Crater by Nininger. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZroxon Thanks and Regards, Phil __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Comet tonight
I am in western Colorado. We have clear skies. Comet looks bigger tonight over what I saw last night. Seems to have spread out a bit. The outer fan of material looks thinner but bigger. I just have binoculars. Mike __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P], continued
Big- over 10 arcmin across. More comet-like than the previous nights. I'm not seeing much color tonight, and it seems a little less bright to the naked eye, but that may because the air isn't as transparent, and the Moon is really interfering. We have clouds rolling in, so I won't be doing much more tonight. I did get a series of images which I've analyzed and added to my report, http://www.cloudbait.com/gallery/comet/holmes.html. The nucleus is clearly not at the center of the coma- I'm not sure if this is a sign of tail formation, or possibly some breakup. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Mark Langenfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P], continued Can someone with clear skies give us a report tonight? Thanks, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P], continued
Thanks, Bob. An interesting object, to be sure. Mark - Original Message - From: Bob King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mark Langenfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holmes [17P], continued Hi Mark, Clear here in Duluth, Minn. 17P is holding in at mag. +2.5 and now looks small but distinctly larger than a star with the naked eye. My 10x50 binoculars show the bright nucleus, yellow color and disk very well. I searched but no tail was visible. In the 10-inch telescope at 76x, the brightest part of the comet measures about 4' across and this is set inside a much fainter outer coma ~8' in diameter. Overall the disk color is yellow mixed with pale green. The nucleus and fan are a richer yellow hue. The nucleus has faded but remains a crisp starlike point. A dense, funnel-shaped fan of bright material extends out from the nucleus to the southwest. Overall the comet looks very similar to last night except that the coma and fan have about doubled in size. Comet Holmes remains an amazing sight! I hope it clears by you soon. Best regards, Bob PS. I can't seem to post to the list but if you'd like to post this if you think others would find it useful, go right ahead. On 10/26/07, Mark Langenfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone with clear skies give us a report tonight? Thanks, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Taking shill bidding to a new level
Hi, Those not interested in suspect meteorites or their sellers, please disregard this email. For novice collectors and those curious as to the extent a seller can violate the rules and still stay on eBay, you may find this of interest: http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/Oct07.html Best, ken newton http://meteorite-identification.com/updates.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
