Re: [meteorite-list] Mammoth Stew: Bring to boil
Hi all - Consider the following, from the Wikipedia entry on Thomas S. Kuhn's The Structure Of Scientific Revolutions. If recent impact events are viewed as a new paradigm (and it seems to me to meet the criteria) then this is more than a failure of perception SSR: According to Kuhn, the scientific paradigms before and after a paradigm shift are so different that their theories are incomparable. The paradigm shift does not just change a single theory, it changes the way that words are defined, the way that the scientists look at their subject and, perhaps most importantly, the questions that are considered valid and the rules used to determine the truth of a particular theory. Kuhn observes that they are incommensurable literally, lacking comparison, untranslatable. New theories were not, as they had thought of before, simply extensions of old theories, but radically new worldviews. This incommensurability applies not just before and after a paradigm shift, but between conflicting paradigms. It is simply not possible, according to Kuhn, to construct an impartial language that can be used to perform a neutral comparison between conflicting paradigms, because the very terms used belong within the paradigm and are therefore different in different paradigms. Advocates of mutually exclusive paradigms are in an insidious position: Though each may hope to convert the other to his way of seeing science and its problems, neither may hope to prove his case. The competition between paradigms is not the sort of battle that can be resolved by proof. (SSR, p. 148).' E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mammoth Stew: take sticks, pull leg from fire
Hi all - So we have a mammoth leg boiling on the fire. We now have to get it off, and its hot. The only person in denial here is you, who refuses to accept the fact that he can't possibly know with any certainty what sort of cosmic cataclysms caused either dust layer. There's one dust layer (10,900 BCE) and a rain of molten iron (31,000 BCE) Ahhh, right. You go believe that. Darren's post sums up just about everyone else's opinion of that as well. Legends are not science. They tend to have somewhat historical roots, but we're talking about science here, not a picture book about native american storytelling. The complete inability of Europeans to realize the extent of the oral corpus is remarkable. Historical traditions are usually lumped together with instructional tales for children, amusing jokes, romances, hunting adventures, etc... Think of it as a library, instead. What you have is a lack of proof for any known impact process, and you seem to want to attribute that to an airburst. Sterling brought up airburst as a teaching aid, I didn't. Were their also airbursts at the same time as the massive impact(s) around 10,900 BCE? In my opinion, yes. The only proof Jason will accept is large holes in the ground, or burnt bones. The indisputable extra-terrestrial markers just don't sink in. That's Denial with a capital D. I observed earlier that in science, we don't mistate evidence in order to invalidate a hypothesis; we also don't mistate hyposthesis in order to invalidate them. To which Jason replied: You're not saying anything here. The point is that you have no evidence. No evidence =/= airburst. I think you're going to find it hard to get me to believe much of what you say - especially when the sole things that my beliefs are grounded in are logic, the laws of science, and mathematics. I would suggest that denial plays the main role in Jaon's thinking. As far as his beliefs go, I don't know if he's even gotten to the point of understanding English rationalism. I have acknowledged multiple times that I see the ice impact as a (an albeit unlikely) possible explanation for the geologic evidence that has been found. I repeatedly state that the ice impact is a possibility - you're the one who expected to find a crater given the evidence already discovered. You failed to include above the quote that clearly stated that you believed that a crater exists to be found. Maybe you've changed your point of view; I don't know, but you clearly stated that you believed that a crater exists to be found. After all of this, Jason understands ice cratering, though he still thinks boths impacts were unlikely, despite the undeniable extra-terrestrial markers. Well, there's some relief. What I hope for in the case of the 31,000 BCE event is the recovery of large irons, maybe a crater. For the 10,900 BCE event I think that a market for impactite samples may develop. Just because we don't have a solid explanation yet doesn't mean that a particular one of the countless possibilities that could explain it(however likely it is to have generated the effects seen) is certainly the right one. Just one question: What other possibilities are there for either set of data? Now that we've established that I know more about the dynamics of an impact and meteoritics in general, I really don't see how you can honestly persist in your ramblings. ahem. Oh - and I will admit; I'll perpetuate this damn thread as long as you agree to do the same by posting a reply. good hunting, all E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Polandmet Christmas Special Offer.
Hello List I have several single specimens for sale. Muonio, Brahim and Mt Dieu is from my friend collection. I especially want reccomend my eucrite with beautifull, shiny black crust and large avesome full slices of brecciated diogenite. Shipping free worldwide. And happy Christmass to all and full meteorites under Your trees Brahin 127g 81x72x6 mm990pln 400$ http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/brahin53a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/brahin53b.jpg Brahin 20g43x29x6 mm210pln 83$ http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/brahin21a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/brahin21b.jpg Mont Dieu56g70x53x3 mm840pln 333$ http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/mount_dieua.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/mount_dieub.jpg Muonionalusta570g full slice 2850pln 1130$ http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/muonio570a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/muonio570b.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/muonio570c.jpg Eucrite unclassified 53.6g 43x40x19 mm 530$ http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/eucrite53a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/eucrite53b.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/eucrite53c.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/eucrite53d.jpg Eucrite unclassified 21.8g 44x35x14 mm 210$ http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/eucrite21a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/eucrite21b.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/eucrite21c.jpg Bassikounou 297g fresh crust 600$ http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/bassikounou297a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/bassikounou297b.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/bassikounou297c.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/bassikounou297d.jpg Bassikounou 101g 200$ primary/secondary crust http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/bassikounou101a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/bassikounou101b.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/bassikounou101d.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/bassikounou101c.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/bassikounou101e.jpg NWA4965 Brecciated Diogenite 13.5g 95x39x2 mm full slice 250$ http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/NWA4965_13.5a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/NWA4965_13.5b.jpg NWA4965 Brecciated Diogenite 23.5g 95x39x3 mm full slice 450$ http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/NWA4965_23.5a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/NWA4965_23.5b.jpg -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Sale page update!
Hello All, I just updated my sale web page: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id26.html METEORITES for museums or for the discerning collector. Happy Holidays! Peter MARMET-METEORITES Peter Marmet Bern, Switzerland, IMCA #2747 http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Polandmet Christmas Special Offer.
Ach I forgot to say that I have also add finally on my page GIBEON slices and beautifull transparent slices of SEYMCHAN http://www.polandmet.com/_seymchan.htm http://www.polandmet.com/_gibeon.htm -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Happy....
Hi Dave, Thanks for your wishes. May you also have a very Merry Christmas! Greg Lindh From: Dave Carothers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Happy Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:23:18 -0500 List members, I wish you all a very Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Festivus, Happy Quanzaa, and most of all PEACE. Dave __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
