[meteorite-list] AD - Some nice fresh small NWA xxx individuals
Hi List members, I've just update my website with some nice and fresh NWA xxx unclassified meteorites for sale. All are coming from the well known spacejewels collection here in Switzerland. So you can be sure to get good quality met's !!! If interested, please visit one of the two pages on my website: http://www.saharagems.com/id49.html and http://www.saharagems.com/id63.html Please contact me offlist (use the contact link on my website). Shipping fees may vary from buyers location and the size of the meteorites. Thank you and have a great week. Best regards, Thomas Stalder www.saharagems.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] SALE - 192g Moss and 159g Hambleton
For anyone who may be interested, I have large pieces of both Moss (CO3.5) and Hambleton (Pallasite) currently listed on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemItem=170416693146 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemItem=170416304736 Both auctions close in less than 2 days. Mike __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history
Thanks for the link Phil! I need to update the site a little actually, but it still makes good reading! I was emailed about this tektite a couple of days before it was listed. I told him it was a Muong Nong, but he seems to want to compare it to splashforms. This is a good size Muong Nong-type, but nowhere near a world record breaker! Aubrey www.tektites.co.uk --- On Sat, 12/12/09, Phil Morgan roxfromsp...@gmail.com wrote: From: Phil Morgan roxfromsp...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history To: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, 12 December, 2009, 16:12 For any interested in this topic, Aubrey Whymark has a nice page on large tektites here http://www.tektites.co.uk/largest_tektites.html. You owe it to yourself to have a look at the rest of his site as well. It's very comprehensive. FYI, Phil On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 5:21 AM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Steve, All, I've hear tell (and seen photos) of a Muong Nong layered tektite in the 40-50kg range in Thailand, but the asking price was around a dollar a gram. They do come big, but they're rarely seen above about a kilo or so. Regards, Jason On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:11 AM, steve arnold stevenarnold60...@yahoo.com wrote: Good early morning list.Got to put in another 10 hour day.Last of a 65 hour week.Hey I noticed on ebay someone is selling a 3.8 kilo tektite.I s it possible to be that big?I've seen them many hundreds of grams but not 7 lbs. I s it really possible?? Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon
Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon by Bhargavi Kerur, DNA, Read the World, december 12, 2009 http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_indian-scientists-detect-signs-of-life-on-moon_1322785 Life on the moon, The Irish Times, December 12, 2009 http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1212/1224260586652.html Sounds like a reporter is getting carried away with his imagination. Does anyone know anything about the claim in the first article that: However, traces of amino acids, which are basic to life, were found in the soil retrieved by the Apollo-11 astronauts.? Yours, Paul H. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Not OT-- set our journals free!
Hi I thought that anything paid for by the US taxpayer had to be public access - hence all the NASA articles available free. Personally the standard $30 charge a paper disgusts me and serves to obstruct science. You used to be able to buy paper copies much cheaper - now they are online you would think they would be cheaper - but instead they are 10 times more expensive! $30 for one A4 page!?! I try and get my papers from geological/astronomical libraries or second hand books/journals. Buying digital copies would bankrupt me - and it annoys me because tax payers funded the research and these companies extort the profit. With the decline in print copies it won't be long before online purchase is the only option and then with these giants like Elsevier we will all suffer and private researchers will be no more. If Elsevier or other big publishers want to hold the copyright then they should pay for the ENTIRE research / Ph.D. - if they don't then the article should be publicly available if funded by the public. I hope there are new laws on copyright before scientific articles are only available to the very wealthy. No problems with a $10-15 charge to cover costs plus some profit, but these prices are crazy. I've complained, but I never get a reply! Maybe it is time that people refuse to publish with these guys and go with journals that offer free or cheap online access (but still peer reviewed) - at least people could then afford to read the article. Now there's an idea for a webpage! Regards, Aubrey www.tektites.co.uk --- On Sat, 12/12/09, Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net wrote: From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net Subject: [meteorite-list] Not OT-- set our journals free! To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, 12 December, 2009, 20:53 We've all seen it-- some new paper (on meteorites or not) comes out from a publicly funded entity, paid by US taxpayers, but to read the paper, you must pay an obscene fee (such as $20 to have access to 1 article for 24 hours-- or some similar rate-- from _Science_.) Here's a chance to give TPTB a little feedback on that: http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/12/comment-on-acce.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history
Phil Morgan wrote: For any interested in this topic, Aubrey Whymark has a nice page on large tektites here http://www.tektites.co.uk/largest_tektites.html . Has anyone tried plotting the locations of the largest known tektites? It seems like, their distribution, especially of the Muong Nong-type tektites, would provide some clues about the type and location of the impact that created them. Best Regrads, Paul H. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] somewhat OT but very cool
http://www.chromoscope.net/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] geminids
NE's clouded out hope others have good luck __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon
Finding organics on the moon is one thing, Extrapolating life is quite another. Reporters get so carried away by these reports. I wonder, are they always that gullible, or do they sensationalize to keep the ratings and readership up? Could there be organics on the moon? Of course! Ever hear of carbonaceous chondrites? They have organic (carbon based) compounds in abundance and even amino acids. Do you suppose it is possible that the moon gets bombarded by carbonaceous meteorites? Could a reporter know this? Maybe. Should a scientist know this? Should I continue.. Does that mean there is life on the Moon? I'll let you decide. Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago PS I've been wanting to thank Paul a long time for providing links to so many interesting scientific articles. Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon by Bhargavi Kerur, DNA, Read the World, december 12, 2009 http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_indian-scientists-detect-signs-of-life-on-moon_1322785 Life on the moon, The Irish Times, December 12, 2009 http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1212/1224260586652.html Sounds like a reporter is getting carried away with his imagination. Does anyone know anything about the claim in the first article that: However, traces of amino acids, which are basic to life, were found in the soil retrieved by the Apollo-11 astronauts.? Yours, Paul H. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon
Yes there was life on the moon Apollo 11 astronauts Apollo 12 astronauts Apollo 14 astronauts Apollo 15 astronauts Apollo 16 astronauts, and lastbut not least, Apollo 17 astronauts I rest my case Pete - Original Message - From: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon Finding organics on the moon is one thing, Extrapolating life is quite another. Reporters get so carried away by these reports. I wonder, are they always that gullible, or do they sensationalize to keep the ratings and readership up? Could there be organics on the moon? Of course! Ever hear of carbonaceous chondrites? They have organic (carbon based) compounds in abundance and even amino acids. Do you suppose it is possible that the moon gets bombarded by carbonaceous meteorites? Could a reporter know this? Maybe. Should a scientist know this? Should I continue.. Does that mean there is life on the Moon? I'll let you decide. Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago PS I've been wanting to thank Paul a long time for providing links to so many interesting scientific articles. Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon by Bhargavi Kerur, DNA, Read the World, december 12, 2009 http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_indian-scientists-detect-signs-of-life-on-moon_1322785 Life on the moon, The Irish Times, December 12, 2009 http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1212/1224260586652.html Sounds like a reporter is getting carried away with his imagination. Does anyone know anything about the claim in the first article that: However, traces of amino acids, which are basic to life, were found in the soil retrieved by the Apollo-11 astronauts.? Yours, Paul H. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Willamette, again
Hi all - A couple more points to consider: 1) When considering Willamette, consider how Greece is after the British Museum for the Elgin Marbles, and Egypt is after the British Museum for the Rosetta Stone and after the Germans for Nefertiti's bust. You may not think this applies, but GR is a sovereign nation as well (that's why they have the casino). Ordinary US commercial law may not apply. 2) From what I know of practices in the East, about the only use parts of slices are appropriate for is for wear around the neck on deer skin strings. I don't know if this holds for the GR peoples. It might offset the slicing, perhaps Matt may want to contact them about this possibility as a way out, but only if all that he had were offered, with cost recovery and any profit used appropriately. 3) Darryl has his view of the GR-AMNH settlement, but it looks to me like rent, with the main mass to be returned when practicable. I'm no lawyer, but I feel that AMNH kind of left Darryl in a really bad spot. 4) As Darryl has already learned, dealing Native American artifacts can bring Maeche Katet, really bad luck. That's why experienced stone artifact collectors never dig graves or village sites, but rely on field finds or village sites that are being lost to other causes. If any of you meteorite hunters ever find a meteorite in what turns out to be a Native American site during your hunts, perhaps the best thing to do would be either to leave it there, or make sure it gets into the hands of the sites current caretakers. 5) As Martin has pointed out, if state or federal laws are put in place, it could really cripple meteorite recovery and science. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Another dozen coming to a close
Hello all Another round of no reserve action ending in a few hours. The usual suspects include Camel Donga, Chergach, Gao, some mesosiderite, an awesome shock melt L4 and more. http://shop.ebay.com/nakhladog/m.html Be well, Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] FB group NWA meteorites
Dear List Members, I just created a group on Facebook named NWA meteorites, some friend on here are already joined the group and I invite all of you to do so at : http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201893903852ref=nf This group is all about NWA meteorites, finds, falls, dealers, availability, salesetc I hope all Moroccan dealer will joing the group. Thank you for joining us Aziz __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter
My FriendList. I do not wish to appear rude, but I can't engage further on this topic for some time. As it regards your two emails below There is nothing in the settlement which refers to the meteorite being returned or returned when practicable. This is sheer invention. And just do you're on the same page, even a rental would put a financial value on the specimen---which the Grand Ronde said they would never do. I have not experienced bad luck as a result of having been caught in the Willamette imbroglio. My luck or lack thereof is due a life filled with debauchery. ;-) Seriously, I know you don't mean to be offensive, Ed, but it is kind of offensive to speculate on the cause and effect on the trajectory in a person's life---especially when you know so little of that life. And bad things do happen to good people, and you must admit it's myopic and ethnocentric for attribution to bad news and tragedy to be tethered to your beliefs. In any event, there is now clarity that specimens of the Willamette meteorite can be owned free and clear without worry of any legal issues. All best to you, and to everyone .and best of luck! On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:22 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote: Hi all - A couple more points to consider: 1) When considering Willamette, consider how Greece is after the British Museum for the Elgin Marbles, and Egypt is after the British Museum for the Rosetta Stone and after the Germans for Nefertiti's bust. You may not think this applies, but GR is a sovereign nation as well (that's why they have the casino). Ordinary US commercial law may not apply. 2) From what I know of practices in the East, about the only use parts of slices are appropriate for is for wear around the neck on deer skin strings. I don't know if this holds for the GR peoples. It might offset the slicing, perhaps Matt may want to contact them about this possibility as a way out, but only if all that he had were offered, with cost recovery and any profit used appropriately. 3) Darryl has his view of the GR-AMNH settlement, but it looks to me like rent, with the main mass to be returned when practicable. I'm no lawyer, but I feel that AMNH kind of left Darryl in a really bad spot. 4) As Darryl has already learned, dealing Native American artifacts can bring Maeche Katet, really bad luck. That's why experienced stone artifact collectors never dig graves or village sites, but rely on field finds or village sites that are being lost to other causes. If any of you meteorite hunters ever find a meteorite in what turns out to be a Native American site during your hunts, perhaps the best thing to do would be either to leave it there, or make sure it gets into the hands of the sites current caretakers. 5) As Martin has pointed out, if state or federal laws are put in place, it could really cripple meteorite recovery and science. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:40 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote: Hi Darryl - Since the AMNH was built around the Willamette, and it could not be moved without tearing down the building, the agreement reached seems reasonable. But didn't the agreement also include a promise to return the main mass when practicable? As for the Portland Oregonian article, you have to consider AIM as well as the GR leadership. If that is not enough, consider that AIM has registered chapters and unregistered chapters. I still feel that the AMNH left you holding the bag, and I wish everyone the best of luck in coming to a good resolution. Ed --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com wrote: From: Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter To: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com Cc: m...@mhmeteorites.com, meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com , Adam List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, countde...@earthlink.net , Steve Dunklee sdunklee72...@yahoo.com, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 12:49 PM E.P., Steve's explanation is speculation, and I don't agree that speculating as to possible motives is the way to proceed here. New problems and misunderstandings will be created---as if there haven't been enough already. ;-) And while I appreciate your support, it also really is not accurate to state that future purchasers are left hanging in the wind. And so BRIEF RECENT LEGAL HISTORY OF THE WILLAMETTE METEORITE -- WITH A NEW CHAPTER FOR WILLAMETTE HISTORY BUFFS In 1999, the Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde filed a NAGPRA (Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act) claim to have the Willamette meteorite returned to Oregon. In a written statement, Tracy Dugan, a spokeswoman for the Grand Ronde explained, The Confederated Tribes is shocked that the American Museum of Natural History insists upon illegally keeping this important
Re: [meteorite-list] Whites MXT + Minelab Explorer SE Pro
Becides that one does anybody have any opinions on the Minelab Explorer SE Pro Details here: http://www.kellycodetectors.com/minelab/explorerSE_pro-buy.htm Thanks DEAN --- On Sat, 12/12/09, Jeff Kuyken i...@meteorites.com.au wrote: From: Jeff Kuyken i...@meteorites.com.au Subject: [meteorite-list] Whites MXT To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Received: Saturday, 12 December, 2009, 11:51 PM Hi all, Just wondering if anyone here uses (or has used) a Whites MXT detector? If so are they any good not just for meteorites but also gold and relics? Thanks, Jeff __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Willamette: The agreement
Hi Darryl, all - I agree we need to move on. All I knew of the wording of the GR/AMNH agreement I read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willamette_Meteorite The GR may have interpreted the display clause one way, the AMNH another. I think you have found yourself in an unfortunate situation. I hope that if a good way out comes to you, you recognize it when it appears. Ed __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Unique Martian NWA 5990 - Smaller Pieces desired?
Good Afternoon list, we received several emails with list-members expressing their disappointment or sadness that they'd not able to add this really exciting Martian material to their collection, because the offered specimens are somewhat too mighty. Aye, it's a dilemma. We had almost no small cuts, neither many crumbs broke loose while cutting and on the other hand, with such important material of such a low tkw, we feel always somewhat guilty, if we produce too much cut loss. Indeed it is somewhat unfair.. Well, in a Christmassy mood, what do you think about the idea, to sacrifice one slice, in cutting it down to more budget-friendly servings? A kind of a pool - if enough collectors will raise their fingers, so that a complete slice can be moved, we could slaughter it, perhaps with a 100/g spread to compensate the cut loss and the pain. That said (and of course having in mind, that it's quite the most inadequate time of the year for offering such a bomb - but most of you know our often liberal payment policy), just send a PM and we will see and try our best. Winterly Greetings, Stefan Martin Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/ -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Chladnis Heirs Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. Dezember 2009 22:36 An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] AD: Unique and Uncommon new Martian - NWA 5990 Dear collectors, today it is highest time to introduce our new not only in our eyes quite sensational planetary recovery. NWA 5990. A new Martian, remarkably distinct from the so far known finds. Before cutting it was a relatively small stone of only 59 grams, coated with an unweathered black fusion crust with some indications of flight marks, which seemed to have spalled of on one corner by impacting the ground. The stone felt somewhat heavier than one would expect for a planetary one. Here you have a picture of the intact mass: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/uncut-mainm-klein.jpg The first cut then revealed the outstanding nature of that small stone. The overall fresh appearance of the exterior was trumped by the pristinely looking cross section and you may comprehend our sudden elatedness, if you take a look at this picture of the unpolished cut surface: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.995g-end-kl.jpg As you can see, that stone looks simply different from all other Martians we know. Well, with the numerous partially blackened olivines, one could tend to think into the direction of a lherzolithe, but it turned out, that the stone contains by far too much plagioclase to be lherzolithic. The grain size however fits to a diabase. That material is currently under analyses with a high priority at Dr.Irving, Dr.Herd et al. - and perhaps as early as in January an abstract will be already available. Therefore we beg for your understanding, that we can't forecast the exciting results, but have to leave the first publication to the researchers, avidly working on that surprising material. Maybe the one or other being already the proud owner of a slice will share his/her observations here in this thread with us instead. And here starts our dilemma - you may wonder, why we go public with this new Martian already without being able to name and explain the particularities and specifics of this new material - especially so shortly before a paper is scheduled; also it is planned to introduce the stone at the next Lunar Planetary Science Conference in Houston in beginning March.. Well the reason is simple - until then the material will have been completely gone and you would have to miss out that important new Martian. As the tkw was so low and this unique meteorite has such a scientific brisance, we had of course to address firstly to research institutes, like we had to do with NWA 5789 too. Afterwards we supplied the Martian enthusiasts from our address book (and we cordially recommend and invite the planetary specialists to contact us, if they want to be added there too). So in the end and at present there are only two specimens left! Half a fullslice with fusion crust. 2.338g Price is 1600$/g http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/2_338g.jpg And a crusted partial endcut. 1.908g at 1500$/g http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/1_908g_endcut.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/1_908g-end2.jpg Else there would be only these two pieces, but they are on hold for a museum, the negotiations aren't finished yet. So most probably they won't be available. A cap of the stone with a lot of crust and flight marks. (Largest intact piece, hence depending on definitions the main mass): http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.955g-end2-kl.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.995g-end-kl.jpg And a partslice. http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/2_055g.jpg If these specimens will have been gone,
[meteorite-list] garys L3/ JOE'S WRONG
Hi list.I just got gary fujihara's L3 type unclassed slice.It is a killer.It even came in a small membrane case.It kind reminds me of the chondrule conglomerate light.It is a beauty.Also joe kerchners 75 gram endcut meteorwrong also came.It sure could pass for a meteorite.This seems to have all the nessesary elements to be a meteorite.If you do not have a piece,you should get one just for the sure beauty of it.Also after the first of the year I might offering up my 44 gram slice of WILLISTON,NORTH DAKOTA.So stay tuned on that. Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter
Hi Darryl - Since the AMNH was built around the Willamette, and it could not be moved without tearing down the building, the agreement reached seems reasonable. But didn't the agreement also include a promise to return the main mass when practicable? As for the Portland Oregonian article, you have to consider AIM as well as the GR leadership. If that is not enough, consider that AIM has registered chapters and unregistered chapters. I still feel that the AMNH left you holding the bag, and I wish everyone the best of luck in coming to a good resolution. Ed --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com wrote: From: Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter To: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com Cc: m...@mhmeteorites.com, meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com, Adam List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, countde...@earthlink.net, Steve Dunklee sdunklee72...@yahoo.com, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 12:49 PM E.P., Steve's explanation is speculation, and I don't agree that speculating as to possible motives is the way to proceed here. New problems and misunderstandings will be created---as if there haven't been enough already. ;-) And while I appreciate your support, it also really is not accurate to state that future purchasers are left hanging in the wind. And so BRIEF RECENT LEGAL HISTORY OF THE WILLAMETTE METEORITE -- WITH A NEW CHAPTER FOR WILLAMETTE HISTORY BUFFS In 1999, the Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde filed a NAGPRA (Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act) claim to have the Willamette meteorite returned to Oregon. In a written statement, Tracy Dugan, a spokeswoman for the Grand Ronde explained, The Confederated Tribes is shocked that the American Museum of Natural History insists upon illegally keeping this important sacred object which belongs to the history and culture of the Grand Ronde Tribes. It was further written in the NAGPRA claim, The only acceptable resolution of this matter will be through the unconditional repatriation of the Willamette Meteorite. In 2000, the American Museum of Natural History did not address the NAGPRA claim and instead filed a lawsuit in federal court against the Grand Ronde requesting a declaratory judgement. In the Museum's claim, it was stated that this matter does not fit the parameters of a NAGPRA case. Months later the parties settled. The meteorite remained where it was and the Museum provided the Grand Ronde signage, paid internships and an annual private visit. In 2007, just prior to the Bonhams auction in which the crown section of Willamette was being offered, an editorial appeared in the Portland Oregonian, which stated: The Grand Ronde don't have time before this month's auction to file a claim for return of the piece in Pitt's possession, but potential buyers ought to beware: There just might be a lawsuit looming. It would seem to us the Grand Ronde tribes have an extremely strong case under the 1990 federal law intended to help Native Americans reclaim cultural and religious objects. Whoever buys the precious chunk of meteorite should consider offering a settlement like the museum did. And they should promise never to cut the sacred piece of Tomanowos. I was outraged. 1. The Oregonian stated that the museum offered a settlement, and nothing could be further from the truth. The museum sued the Grand Ronde in federal court in response to the Grand Ronde's NAGPRA claim, and the Grand Ronde backed off their claim. 2. As the Grand Ronde stated in their NAGPRA claim that the only solution was the unconditional repatriation of the meteorite, and as this did not occur, how is it that the largest newspaper in Oregon could state that the Grand Ronde suddenly had a strong case? 3. The notion of not having enough time to file additional legal action was also fatuous. The Grand Ronde was aware of my possession of this meteorite specimen for at least five years. In addition, I publicly auctioned many other specimens, sales which were extensively covered by the media--which included statements by the Grand Ronde--without a lawsuit or a threat of a lawsuit; 4. Who was the Oregonian's source about there not being enough time to file legal action? It would have to be someone at the Grand Ronde, right? But the Grand Ronde stated on their website there would be no legal action. Could this editorial have been phoned in by a rogue tribe member with clout? Did I mention that the Grand Ronde is the Portland Oregonian's largest advertiser? Two days later the newspaper published an apology for their false claims and issued a retraction, The Grand Ronde has no intention of filing a lawsuit. The Grand Ronde also stated, Legal action was never contemplated, and there will be no action taken. As the Portland
Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter
My FriendList. I do not wish to appear rude, but I will not engage further on this topic for some time. As it regards your two emails below There is nothing in the settlement which refers to the meteorite being returned or returned when practicable. This is sheer invention. And just do you're on the same page, even a rental would put a financial value on the specimen---which the Grand Ronde said they would never do. I have not experienced bad luck as a result of having been caught in the Willamette imbroglio. My luck or lack thereof is due a life filled with debauchery. ;-) Seriously, I know you don't mean to be offensive, Ed, but it is kind of offensive to speculate on the cause and effect on the trajectory in a person's life---especially when you know so little of that life. And bad things do happen to good people, and you must admit it's myopic and ethnocentric for attribution to bad news and tragedy to be tethered to your beliefs. In any event, there is now clarity that specimens of the Willamette meteorite can be owned free and clear without worry of any legal issues. All best to you, and to everyone .and best of luck! On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:22 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote: Hi all - A couple more points to consider: 1) When considering Willamette, consider how Greece is after the British Museum for the Elgin Marbles, and Egypt is after the British Museum for the Rosetta Stone and after the Germans for Nefertiti's bust. You may not think this applies, but GR is a sovereign nation as well (that's why they have the casino). Ordinary US commercial law may not apply. 2) From what I know of practices in the East, about the only use parts of slices are appropriate for is for wear around the neck on deer skin strings. I don't know if this holds for the GR peoples. It might offset the slicing, perhaps Matt may want to contact them about this possibility as a way out, but only if all that he had were offered, with cost recovery and any profit used appropriately. 3) Darryl has his view of the GR-AMNH settlement, but it looks to me like rent, with the main mass to be returned when practicable. I'm no lawyer, but I feel that AMNH kind of left Darryl in a really bad spot. 4) As Darryl has already learned, dealing Native American artifacts can bring Maeche Katet, really bad luck. That's why experienced stone artifact collectors never dig graves or village sites, but rely on field finds or village sites that are being lost to other causes. If any of you meteorite hunters ever find a meteorite in what turns out to be a Native American site during your hunts, perhaps the best thing to do would be either to leave it there, or make sure it gets into the hands of the sites current caretakers. 5) As Martin has pointed out, if state or federal laws are put in place, it could really cripple meteorite recovery and science. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:40 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote: Hi Darryl - Since the AMNH was built around the Willamette, and it could not be moved without tearing down the building, the agreement reached seems reasonable. But didn't the agreement also include a promise to return the main mass when practicable? As for the Portland Oregonian article, you have to consider AIM as well as the GR leadership. If that is not enough, consider that AIM has registered chapters and unregistered chapters. I still feel that the AMNH left you holding the bag, and I wish everyone the best of luck in coming to a good resolution. Ed --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com wrote: From: Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter To: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com Cc: m...@mhmeteorites.com, meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com , Adam List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, countde...@earthlink.net , Steve Dunklee sdunklee72...@yahoo.com, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 12:49 PM E.P., Steve's explanation is speculation, and I don't agree that speculating as to possible motives is the way to proceed here. New problems and misunderstandings will be created---as if there haven't been enough already. ;-) And while I appreciate your support, it also really is not accurate to state that future purchasers are left hanging in the wind. And so BRIEF RECENT LEGAL HISTORY OF THE WILLAMETTE METEORITE -- WITH A NEW CHAPTER FOR WILLAMETTE HISTORY BUFFS In 1999, the Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde filed a NAGPRA (Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act) claim to have the Willamette meteorite returned to Oregon. In a written statement, Tracy Dugan, a spokeswoman for the Grand Ronde explained, The Confederated Tribes is shocked that the American Museum of Natural History insists upon illegally keeping this
[meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - December 11, 2009
MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES December 11, 2009 o Faulting in Amazonis Planitia http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001578_2000 o Light Layered Deposits in Valles Marineris http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001456_1695 o Layers in Gale Crater Central Mound http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001422_1750 o Impact Crater Filled with Layered Deposits http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001410_2210 o Martian Barchans http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014404_1765 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - December 11, 2009
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES December 7-11, 2009 o Sirenum Fossae (07 December 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091207a o Nirgal Vallis (08 December 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091208a o Terra Cimmeria Dunes (09 December 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091209a o Ceraunius Tholus (10 December 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091210a o Dunes (11 December 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091211a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update: Nov 29 - Dec 9, 2009
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: Trouble with Right-Rear Wheel - sols 2100-2110, Nov. 29 - Dec. 9, 2009: Spirit remains embedded in the location called Troy on the west side of Home Plate. Diagnostic tests from Sol 2109 (Dec. 8, 2009) on Spirit's right-rear wheel indicate a troubled wheel. The right-rear wheel rotor resistance tests continue to show very elevated resistance. No motion of the right-rear wheel occurred during a backward commanded motion test. The rotor resistances on all the other operating wheels are nominal. The plan ahead includes more rotor resistance tests, application of higher voltage to the right-rear wheel to see if any movement will occur, and a check of the right-front wheel to confirm its status and to see if it may offer insight into the right-rear wheel's condition. As of Sol 2110 (Dec. 9, 2009), Spirit's solar-array energy production is 298 watt-hours, with an atmospheric opacity (tau) of 0.517 and a dust factor of 0.563. Total odometry is 7,730.00 meters (4.80 miles). OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Another Side of 'Marquette' - sols 2080-2090, Nov. 29 - Dec. 10, 2009: Opportunity has been investigating a rock known as Marquette Island. On Sol 2086 (Dec. 6, 2009), the rover backed away and then drove about 5 meters (16 feet) around Marquette Island to image other parts of the rock. On Sol 2089 (Dec. 9, 2009), Opportunity performed a 5-meter (16-foot) approach to the rock to position the rover for an in-situ (contact) study of a different part of the rock than it had touched earlier. On the next sol, the robotic arm (instrument deployment device, or IDD) collected a mosaic of images by the microscopic imager (MI) and then placed the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer (APXS) on a new location on the rock for a long integration. The elevation mirror shroud of the miniature thermal emission spectrometer (Mini-TES) is being opened when appropriate with the expectation of eventual dust cleaning. No dust cleaning of the Mini-TES mirror has been noted yet. As of Sol 2090 (Dec. 10, 2009), Opportunity's solar-array energy production is 359 watt-hours, with an atmospheric opacity (tau) of 0.498 and a dust factor of 0.529. Total odometry is 18,917.41 meters (11.75 miles). __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] FB group NWA meteorites
Dear List Member, Already got 28 members joined, some have added great pics, you are welcome this is your group where you can share you photos, post your adds, ask for informations ..ect To join, follow this linke : http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201893903852ref=nf Best regards Aziz --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane abdelaziz_alhy...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Abdelaziz Alhyane abdelaziz_alhy...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] FB group NWA meteorites To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 1:07 PM Dear List Members, I just created a group on Facebook named NWA meteorites, some friend on here are already joined the group and I invite all of you to do so at : http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201893903852ref=nf This group is all about NWA meteorites, finds, falls, dealers, availability, salesetc I hope all Moroccan dealer will joing the group. Thank you for joining us Aziz __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
Thanks Pete, others, I have had a couple other tell me they are very pleased with their stones. I am very happy you are pleased with your piece. I had posted a few more pieces for sale, some very nice pieces have been listed. After the pieces that are up now are gone, I think almost all the pieces I got left are around 10 grams or less, mayby just a couple larger ones, none very big at all. If you see something you like on the for sale page, you may want to buy it now, they have been selling very quick after I post new ones. I hope everyone who wants some is able to get some. Here is the link again: http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner - Original Message From: Pete Shugar pshu...@clearwire.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, December 12, 2009 12:03:29 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs If you have not gotten your meteorwrong from Joe, you seriously need to get one. This is the most realistic wrong on the planet. It has metal, pseudo chrondrules, shock veins, metal inclusions, a very realistic matrix, what will pass for fusion crust, and it just looks like the real deal. I defey you to just look at it without any magnifying glasses or other means of analysis, save only a magnet. and say it's what ever the heck it is. That's just the thingwhat the heck is it? I dunno, but it sure looks like the real thing. Pete __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] HUGE Chondrule - Auction Ending Others - AD
Dear List Members, Later today (Monday, December 14th), I have some nice eBay auctions ending. The meteorite with the HUGE Chondrule (NWA 5486) was relisted with a much lower opening price! Here is the direct link to NWA 5486 One-of-a-Kind: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=35028136ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Here's the short list of what will be ending, most with no bids or just at the 99-cent opening bid, plenty of Planetary and Achondrites will be GIVEN AWAY at holiday deals!! ~ Angrites ~ Brachinites ~ CK5 ~ Diogenites ~ Irons ~ Lodranites ~ Lunars ~ Martians ~ Unclassified NWA's at lowered pricing from last listing * I even have some shark teeth auctions to help take a healthy bite out of the prices! ;-) Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Thank you for bidding and/or looking, much appreciated!! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
