[meteorite-list] Ad: Reduced prices at my website (Ad 6/12)

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

Dear Fellow Collectors,

Hope you are all doing well.

 

In an effort to move some inventory I have lowered prices on nearly all specimens on my website, including the recently classified CO3.6, NWA 11358. Please take a moment from your relaxing evening to consider adding some specimens to your collection.

 

https://bigjohnmeteorites.com

 

Cheers!

John A. Shea, MD

IMCA 3295

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[meteorite-list] Zhamanshin Meteorite Crater iImpact Melt

[bobadebt--- via Meteorite-list]

This seems legit but can anyone confirm it for me:

ZHAMANSHIN SPHERE 1.4 in/ 36 mm IMPACTITE METEORITE GLASS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZHAMANSHIN-SPHERE-1-4-in-36-mm-IMPACTITE-METEORITE-GLASS-/322582173849?hash=item4b1b655899:g:ipsAAOSwuq9ZX0pk


Thanks 



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Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

I am not interested in starting another pairing wars argument. The 
archive is full of these discussions.  In the past, I pointing out those 
who were self-pairing, piggy-backing and stealing nomenclature from 
official classifications I was involved with.  Many dealers thought they 
were entitled to piggyback my hard work and I let them know that what 
they were doing is nothing short of fraud. Piggybacking also has a 
negative effect on collectors who do not want undocumented stones 
competing with officially classified specimens in their collections. 
This widespread and unsavory practice hurts honest dealers and 
collectors alike.


Simply posting a bulletin entry is not enough.  The name of the person 
who submitted the specimens must match or a chain of custody to that 
name must be clearly spelled out for provenance purposes. The number of 
stones listed in the bulletin cannot be exceeded and weights all need to 
be in alignment.


In my case, yes, I posted links to the bulletin where my name was 
mentioned so the chain of custody was unbroken and well-established. 
This is not the case for most planetary listings on eBay.


Lazy and dishonest Dealers who take shortcuts and bypass protocol are 
driving honest people away.


Who would want to pass down or inherit an undocumented stone thinking it 
is planetary to find out later, it is a terrestrial breccia?  Our 
actions now will be remembered well into the future.  What kind of 
legacy do you want to leave behind?


Life only happens once and there is no time for rehearsal so you better 
do things the best you can the first time.


Adam


On 10/10/2017 4:00 AM, Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list wrote:
You say"It is up to dealers to prove what they are selling is 
legitimate, not collectors/buyers after the transaction.  Why should a 
buyer have to ask for provenance and the chain of custody directly to 
the person named in a Meteoritical Bulletin? It is up to dealers to 
provide this information up front.  Who in their right mind would pay 
top dollar for untested and unclassified stones being put on the market 
as planetary pieces?"


The answer to that is that you would Adamthat is exactly how you 
first bought in numerous rare pieces from NWA and then got them 
classified and published. You then sell them with a link to the Bulletin 
and thus the scienceno more chain of provenance than that. Just your 
own and lab certification.


This is exactly what I see happening at the moment with many other 
dealers and even just collectors now...they are all doing the same as 
you did and proudly bringing new material to science and the collectors 
market. I see nothing wrong with that and I do not see all this so 
called fraudulent material on the market. If you are seeing this 
meteorwrong or terrestrial breccia material being sold by the dealers we 
would be very glad if you could share links with us to that material or 
self paired so we are aware of it and can decide ourselves. (Please let 
us know how you know it is terrestrial breccia). I would certainly 
telling people. I called one leading dealer out recently because they 
were saying the red coating on some recent lunar was fusion crust and 
thus rare when it is actually desert soil when examined at the lab and 
easily cleaned off. There are always a few amateurs and fraudsters, not 
well known dealers...trying on...but you seem to be saying more than that.


I admit people have to be careful when buying and need to see that the 
material has been analysed at the lab if being sold as a classified 
type. Those buying unclassified material have to take the risks like you 
and I have always done and then it stays unclassified unless we make the 
effort to donate parts and get the science done.


I just don't see what you are seeing and many other dealers are me 
asking what you are talking about...please share something concrete with 
us if you are seeing this. It is important for the confidence of the 
market in general.


Graham







On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 6:00 PM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
> wrote:


It is up to dealers to prove what they are selling is legitimate,
not collectors/buyers after the transaction.  Why should a buyer
have to ask for provenance and the chain of custody directly to the
person named in a Meteoritical Bulletin? It is up to dealers to
provide this information up front.  Who in their right mind would
pay top dollar for untested and unclassified stones being put on the
market as planetary pieces?

If a dealer is too lazy to follow protocol then why should he/she be
rewarded? There is no value added by simply reselling untested
stones that are accompanied with stolen nomenclature and Meteortical
Bulletin entries.

Professionals see it as there is no such thing as an unclassified
lunar.  It is either lunar or it is not.  There 

[meteorite-list] AD - polymect diogenite and eucrite for sale

[nwameteorites--- via Meteorite-list]

Dear list members 
i have some nice meteorites for sale 
 -7900 kg very nice diogenite 
-1600 gr nice complet HED 50,/* crusted 
and others itmes 
contact me off lit for pictures and price 
for pyment i accept Paypal . transfer bank account . WU 
best regards
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Re: [meteorite-list] Speaking of 'wrongs!.......

[Tommy via Meteorite-list]

  Well, in the first link the first meteorite LOOKS like an iron 
but//that may not be the case of coarse.


The second link seems to be all phonies to me.

Corrections welcomed!

Regards!
Tom


On 10/09/2017 02:50 PM, Anne Black via Meteorite-list wrote:

This link was forwarded to me with a question:

Do you see a lot of real meteorites there?
http://english.sina.com/china/e/2016-04-07/doc-ifxrcizs6965189.shtml

or there?
http://xw.kunming.cn/a/2017-04/27/content_4601780.htm


Anne M. Black
IMPACTIKA.com

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Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis

[Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list]

You say"It is up to dealers to prove what they are selling is
legitimate, not collectors/buyers after the transaction.  Why should a
buyer have to ask for provenance and the chain of custody directly to the
person named in a Meteoritical Bulletin? It is up to dealers to provide
this information up front.  Who in their right mind would pay top dollar
for untested and unclassified stones being put on the market as planetary
pieces?"

The answer to that is that you would Adamthat is exactly how you first
bought in numerous rare pieces from NWA and then got them classified and
published. You then sell them with a link to the Bulletin and thus the
scienceno more chain of provenance than that. Just your own and lab
certification.

This is exactly what I see happening at the moment with many other dealers
and even just collectors now...they are all doing the same as you did and
proudly bringing new material to science and the collectors market. I see
nothing wrong with that and I do not see all this so called fraudulent
material on the market. If you are seeing this meteorwrong or terrestrial
breccia material being sold by the dealers we would be very glad if you
could share links with us to that material or self paired so we are aware
of it and can decide ourselves. (Please let us know how you know it is
terrestrial breccia). I would certainly telling people. I called one
leading dealer out recently because they were saying the red coating on
some recent lunar was fusion crust and thus rare when it is actually desert
soil when examined at the lab and easily cleaned off. There are always a
few amateurs and fraudsters, not well known dealers...trying on...but you
seem to be saying more than that.

I admit people have to be careful when buying and need to see that the
material has been analysed at the lab if being sold as a classified type.
Those buying unclassified material have to take the risks like you and I
have always done and then it stays unclassified unless we make the effort
to donate parts and get the science done.

I just don't see what you are seeing and many other dealers are me asking
what you are talking about...please share something concrete with us if you
are seeing this. It is important for the confidence of the market in
general.

Graham







On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 6:00 PM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

> It is up to dealers to prove what they are selling is legitimate, not
> collectors/buyers after the transaction.  Why should a buyer have to ask
> for provenance and the chain of custody directly to the person named in a
> Meteoritical Bulletin? It is up to dealers to provide this information up
> front.  Who in their right mind would pay top dollar for untested and
> unclassified stones being put on the market as planetary pieces?
>
> If a dealer is too lazy to follow protocol then why should he/she be
> rewarded? There is no value added by simply reselling untested stones that
> are accompanied with stolen nomenclature and Meteortical Bulletin entries.
>
> Professionals see it as there is no such thing as an unclassified lunar.
> It is either lunar or it is not.  There is no gray area. That is like
> somebody placing quartz (Herkimer Diamonds) on the market and trying to
> sell them as an unclassified natural diamonds. There are over 167,000 loose
> diamonds being offered on eBay.  Guess how many are real?  Most educated
> prospective buyers will not consider a stone without GIA certification.
> Buyers learned the hard way when spending thousands of dollars for
> worthless paste.
>
> I see terrestrial breccias being offered up as lunar material on a
> consistent bases thus the acid test. If it fizzes or you cannot get a
> direct chain of custody to the classifying laboratory, you may consider
> asking for an immediate refund.  Save your hard earned money.  There is
> something to be learned from other markets where buyers have been stiffed.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/9/2017 2:55 AM, Graham Ensor wrote:
>
>> I'm afraid it works the other way round too Adam...you would have to have
>> a piece analysed by an expert to say what you are saying rather than just
>> look at the pieces to see and conclude what they are. Every single piece of
>> my lunar has been to the leading lab specializing in meteorites in the UK
>> and been recorded, weighed and analysed to show it is lunar. I have the
>> write up and science write up submitted for classification if you wish to
>> see it. It is likely part of this new bigger find this year and matches the
>> other material around that I see for what that is worth.
>>
>> Which reputable dealers are you accusing of selling the lunar material
>> you think is not lunar by just looking at it? I'm sure you should pass that
>> information on to help the community.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 1:33 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list <
>> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 

Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis

[John Lutzon via Meteorite-list]

Thanks David,

I was extremely remiss on seeing that angle. At one time, I persued such
cases and should have had more forthought about this subject.

ADAM, my mistake---DO NOT name those Dealers...

Humble John  
  - Original Message - 
  From: David Freeman 
  To: John Lutzon ; Adam Hupe ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 6:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis


  Dear List;
  Not to stir the pot ( used to be real good at it),  There is room for a legal 
battle most likely when one starts pointing fingers...and time lawyers are 
dragged in, it could make a real mess and potentially harm all meteorite 
transactions.


  Meteorite lemon law?  Adam is cool, a great mentor.


  With my regards, David Freeman Rock Springs WY 82902 41.6°N 109.22°W (Elev. 
6324 ft)



  On Monday, October 9, 2017 4:34 PM, John Lutzon via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:





  Adam,
  I was truly hoping to join your wagon train by virtue of your great 
  post regarding what to look out for in Ebay sales. I believe it may 
  have helped many people to not make a bad buy.

  But now, again, you're losing me--again you state that you are aware
  of 108 bad sales divided by the amount of Dealers and you know who
  these sellers are -- but you're not tellin'--- smart !

  And, you state that the Met-Bull will produce these bad dealers, by what means
  do you mean?? Deduction ??

  If you indeed want to help people Not make a bad deal--then why are you 
  basically making them jump through hoops. You are not helping anyone
  by keeping this information to yourself. Either Name Them or quit writing
  about this subjectit's doing no-one any good.

  Get back on trackyou have alot to offer this community

  John


  - Original Message - 
  From: "Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list" 
  To: "metlist" 
  Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 5:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis



  I have been getting several requests to name the dealers engaged in less 
  than honest business practices.  I have publicly called out those who 
  violated the sanctity of meteorites I was involved with in the past by 
  self-pairing and piggy-backing material I placed on the market. At one 
  point, it was almost a full-time job.  I am not interested in creating a 
  "Dealer hall Of Shame" list however you can put one together yourself 
  with a little bit of work. You would be surprised at the number of 
  dealers who are engaged in deceptive trade practices.

  I found 108 violations out of the 265 lunar meteorites currently listed 
  on eBay by simply cross referencing the Meteoritical Bulletin.  There 
  are a lot more than 108 if unclassified material with no numbers is 
  taken into account.

  For NWA material, the Meteortical Bulletin will assist in providing you 
  with a list of dealers to avoid.  Carefully write down the NWA numbers 
  in question and enter them into the Meteoritical Bulletin search text field.

  Link to the meteoritical Bulletin search page:

  https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/

  Things to look out for in the bulletin.

  If there is more material by weight available on the market than what is 
  listed in the bulletin, then there is fraud taking place.

  If the number of complete stones listed in the Bulletin under a 
  particular NWA number is exceeded, then you are looking at another case 
  of self-pairing which is also fraud.

  If you are not provided with a complete chain of custody back to the 
  persons name in the bulletin who submitted the meteorite for study, then 
  it is not worth pursuing.

  If you type in the NWA number or name and no data shows up, it means the 
  stone is not official and has not been approved.

  It is interesting to see who made the list of dealers to avoid!


  Happy hunting,

  Adam






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Re: [meteorite-list] It's Been a While

[Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list]

Great to hear from you again...look forward to seeing the spheres again.


On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

> I hope it cuts well too.  You should post a link to your sphere
> collection, it's really cool!
>
> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 8:31 PM, bobadebt--- via Meteorite-list
>  wrote:
> > Hello to everyone
> >
> > I think the last time I posted was around 2014.
> >
> > Been real busy with work and other things.
> >
> > But I have been actively trying to grow my collection of 50mm Meteorite
> > Spheres.
> >
> > I am up to 20 and I may have finally found a Mesosiderite that is large
> > enough to produce another sphere for my collection so hopefully it will
> be
> > number 21
> >
> > Ruben hooked me up with a 1500 gram Bondoc and I look forward to it’s
> > arrival.
> >
> > I just hope it cuts well.
> >
> >
> > __
> >
> > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and
> the
> > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Rock On!
>
> Ruben Garcia
>
> www.RubenMrMeteoriteGarcia.com
> __
>
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
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> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis

[David Freeman via Meteorite-list]

Dear List;Not to stir the pot ( used to be real good at it),  There is room for 
a legal battle most likely when one starts pointing fingers...and time lawyers 
are dragged in, it could make a real mess and potentially harm all meteorite 
transactions.
Meteorite lemon law?  Adam is cool, a great mentor.
 With my regards, David Freeman Rock Springs WY 82902 41.6°N 109.22°W (Elev. 
6324 ft) 

On Monday, October 9, 2017 4:34 PM, John Lutzon via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:
 

 
Adam,
I was truly hoping to join your wagon train by virtue of your great 
post regarding what to look out for in Ebay sales. I believe it may 
have helped many people to not make a bad buy.

But now, again, you're losing me--again you state that you are aware
of 108 bad sales divided by the amount of Dealers and you know who
these sellers are -- but you're not tellin'--- smart !

And, you state that the Met-Bull will produce these bad dealers, by what means
do you mean?? Deduction ??

If you indeed want to help people Not make a bad deal--then why are you 
basically making them jump through hoops. You are not helping anyone
by keeping this information to yourself. Either Name Them or quit writing
about this subjectit's doing no-one any good.

Get back on trackyou have alot to offer this community

John


- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list" 
To: "metlist" 
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis



I have been getting several requests to name the dealers engaged in less 
than honest business practices.  I have publicly called out those who 
violated the sanctity of meteorites I was involved with in the past by 
self-pairing and piggy-backing material I placed on the market. At one 
point, it was almost a full-time job.  I am not interested in creating a 
"Dealer hall Of Shame" list however you can put one together yourself 
with a little bit of work. You would be surprised at the number of 
dealers who are engaged in deceptive trade practices.

I found 108 violations out of the 265 lunar meteorites currently listed 
on eBay by simply cross referencing the Meteoritical Bulletin.  There 
are a lot more than 108 if unclassified material with no numbers is 
taken into account.

For NWA material, the Meteortical Bulletin will assist in providing you 
with a list of dealers to avoid.  Carefully write down the NWA numbers 
in question and enter them into the Meteoritical Bulletin search text field.

Link to the meteoritical Bulletin search page:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/

Things to look out for in the bulletin.

If there is more material by weight available on the market than what is 
listed in the bulletin, then there is fraud taking place.

If the number of complete stones listed in the Bulletin under a 
particular NWA number is exceeded, then you are looking at another case 
of self-pairing which is also fraud.

If you are not provided with a complete chain of custody back to the 
persons name in the bulletin who submitted the meteorite for study, then 
it is not worth pursuing.

If you type in the NWA number or name and no data shows up, it means the 
stone is not official and has not been approved.

It is interesting to see who made the list of dealers to avoid!


Happy hunting,

Adam






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[meteorite-list] AD: Black beauty , Diogenite Carbonaceous ....

[rachid chaoui via Meteorite-list]

Hello Lists
we hope every one is well ,
we have a few items available for sale at competitive prices ,please
feel free to contacte us off list if you are interested to see what we
have
Thanks

-- 
Rachid Chaoui
IMCA # 4157


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[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

[Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list]

Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: NWA 2892 TS

Contributed by: Solar Anamnesis

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=10/10/2017
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