Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

[John Birdsell]

Hi Rob and thanks for sharing the photos. The low resolution X-ray tomography 
images are a bit difficult to interpret. Perhaps you could post some high res 
images? From what I can see, there do not appear to be very many annual growth 
rings. How many do you count? What year were these harvested?

Also two of the other 'branches' on your site look to me more like root balls 
(burls) with the roots cut off as David Vann has previously pointed out about 
Anne's example. They don't appear to have very many annual growth rings 
either...how many do you count? Personally, I suspect that the ones that look 
root-like may be examples of trees that grew on top of a meteorite sometime 
after the 1947 fall as opposed to examples of 1947 impacts. Still pretty cool 
though!


Anyone else have any thoughts or different interpretations about Rob's images?



-John



- Original Message 
From: Rob Wesel 
To: impact...@aol.com; m...@mhmeteorites.com; drv...@sas.upenn.edu; 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 9:26:15 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

Hello all

I picked up Matt Morgan's piece a couple years ago and did have it CT'd. 
Quite striking resolution and a non-destructive way to analyze the ring 
formation. I have not taken the images to any horticulturist to weigh in on 
but I'm willing to make the CT disc available to science for evaluation upon 
request. I was given the source by Matt and have no concerns regarding it's 
authenticity.

http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/catalog/sikhot-tree.htm

Two more tree specimens can be seen here and one of them is headed for CT 
due to purchaser request. I left them up but both are sold. Same source for 
all of these specimens including Anne's.

http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/catalog/SA.htm

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites
www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971


- Original Message - 
From: 
To: ; ; 

Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree


Thank you Matt.

And yes, OOoppps.
I did write twice the same link, so here is the real link to the picture of
the 2 Vernadsky Sikhote-Alin.

_http://www.impactika.com/images/2s-alin.jpg_
(http://www.impactika.com/images/2s-alin.jpg)

Sorry!

Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/)
_IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com)
President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/)



In a message dated 1/12/2011 6:26:26 PM Mountain Standard Time,
m...@mhmeteorites.com writes:
I saw Anne's on display at the Denver show and was convinced it was the
real deal. Plus the dealer who had it is an impeccable source and also a
geologist.  I bought one from him a couple of years ago and sold it to 
another
dealer (don't want to drop names) who had it examined by an MRI at a 
well-known
University.  The University, if I recall, said the tree was old enough and
the meteorite did in fact alter the tree growth structure (I.e. It wasn't
hammered into a crack in the tree).  Maybe he can chime in...
Matt

Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215

-Original Message-
From: impact...@aol.com
Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:04:10
To: ; 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

WOW!

Thank you Dr. Vann, Dr. Ted, Dolores, everybody, for all the great posts!
I have learned a lot about trees today!;-)

Dr Vann, if I was a little closer to Philadelphia, I would be driving right
over to show it to you. Your analysis and interpretation is amazing, and
very helpful. If more pictures could help in any way just say so, I would
be
delighted to send you some close-ups. And just in case, I posted this one
to
my site:
_http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg_
(http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg)
Please do let me know what you see there.
Thank you very much.

And for everybody else, and since some did ask, here is a picture of the
two Sikhote-Alins from the Vernadsky Institute:
_http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg_
(http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg)
Enjoy.
And again, Thanks everybody!

Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/)
_IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com)
President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/)

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Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

[John Birdsell]

Good call David!  Now that you mention it, those do look more like roots to me 
than branches. 



-John




- Original Message 
From: David R. Vann 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 1:54:32 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree


I would like to add that the picture, as I interpret it, is a tree *stump*. It
is upside-down in Anne's picture. The 'branches' are departing the trunk in the
pattern typical of roots. The age of the tree would be determined based on the
rings in the piece laying on the table. It appears to me that the tree grew
around the SA piece as it lay buried, consequently an age less than or near to
the SA would be expected. There seems to be very little to no disruption
(shattering) of the wood that I can see -only bending as one might see in a root
growing around a rock. Thus, this may have been a fragment that hit soil,
followed by enclosure in the growing tree. If you invert the photo (it will look
more like a tree trunk), the placement of the fragment is below the main trunk.
A moving piece would have come in on a very low angle to penetrate the tree in
the *apparent* manner. Additionally, I would expect the oxidation patterns for
meteorites that imbedded in wood to be different from that in soil (not possible
to evaluate in a photo). At least, there should be iron staining or increased
iron in the wood after impact due to natural organic acids in the tree sap as it
repaired the wound. Conversely, a piece in the soil would be enclosed by roots
similar to way they would enclose rock, and the root would have bark covering
the wood at the interface with the fragment at all times, so there would be no
iron staining.
Interpretation is complicated by the fact that a second tree (probably a second
trunk of the main tree) has grown roots that are interlaced with those of the
larger trunk. If you invert the photo, the pear-shaped form on the right (with a
circle in the center) is the remnants of the second trunk, which died and fell
away from the tree years ago. The two yellowish ovals are two roots that were
cut to fell the tree or after felling to better show the fragment. The pinkish
area around the fragment is a larger root (that was plunging into the soil) that
was split when the tree was uprooted. This split revealed the fragment. The
split root shows a rotted, hollow area toward the right, which when combined
with the cluster of three smaller roots (under the yellow ovals), provided a
weak point for the split to begin. There is a crescent-shaped area of bark
departing the fragment; this is the fusion/grafting line between the two large
roots that are in the lower left of the (inverted) photo. This provides another
point of weakness.
I would love to see this in life, for a better evaluation, but am afraid that I
cannot make the Tucson show. Someday perhaps.





David R. Vann, Ph.D.
Forest Biogeochemistry and Physiology
Department of Earth and Environmental Science
THE UNIVERSITY of PENNSYLVANIA
240 S. 33rd St.
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6316
drv...@sas.upenn.edu
office: 215-898-4906
FAX: 215-898-0964


| -Original Message-
| From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com 
| [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On 
| Behalf Of Dolores Hill
| Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:54 PM
| To: John Birdsell
| Cc: impact...@aol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
| Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree
| 
| 
| Dear meteorite-list,
| 
| I cannot resist commenting on this issue.  I have studied 
| dendrochronology and I am very familiar with the UA Tree-Ring Lab 
| (LTRR).  It is much more complicated than one might realize.  In 
| addition to "number of tree-rings/years," the growth _/pattern/_ is 
| extremely important in cross-dating a tree sample according to a 
| particular regional "chronology."  Depending on the species and/or 
| environmental conditions, there may even be "missing rings or double 
| rings."  The number of rings also depends on when the tree 
| first started 
| growing and when it died (naturally or was cut down) or was 
| sampled by 
| increment core. 
| 
| I have seen fascinating photos of supposed Sikhote-Alin 
| meteorites stuck 
| in trees and invited the owners to allow LTRR experts to 
| examine them.  
| So far the owners seem to get cold feet.  LTRR has scientists and 
| visiting researchers who have first-hand experience with 
| Russian trees 
| and forests.  They are happy to provide assistance: 
| http://ltrr.arizona.edu/ If authentic, the samples might aid 
| studies of biological effects of meteorite impacts.  It would 
| be best if 
| the original location of the tree is known; another case for careful 
| documentation.
| 
| Regards,
| Dolores Hill
| Lunar & Planetary Laboratory
| University of Arizona
| 
| 
| John Birdsell wrote:
| > Hi Tedgood point. If a tree branch was colle

Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

[John Birdsell]

Hi Tedgood point. If a tree branch was collected many, many years ago, it 
could have fewer growth rings, and might also be expected to show some signs of 
its age. 


-J

I have seen three specimens that exceed 80 years and several that are too 
young, so be careful. A Russian dealer friend of mine says that all of the 
genuine specimens were gathered years ago, but some may have been kept for 
future sale as we know the Arab dealers do with meteorites. 

Be careful out there. 

Ted Bunch 



- Original Message 
From: John Birdsell 
To: John Birdsell ; Darryl Pitt ; 
impact...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 10:25:22 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

One year's growth should be represented by a light colored early growth band 
AND 

a dark colored late growth band...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology





- Original Message 
From: John Birdsell 
To: Darryl Pitt ; impact...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 10:04:33 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

Count the annual growth rings in the base of the branchif a tree was alive 
in 1947 there should be more than 64.


-J





- Original Message 
From: Darryl Pitt 
To: impact...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 8:35:15 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree


Hi, 

While I am not challenging the integrity of Anne's specimen, there is something 
I should share:  about a decade ago I was informed by an unimpeachable source 
as 


to the existence of what is basically a nursery outside of Vladivostok where 
SAs 


have been wedged into the knots and the forked limbs of a rapidly growing 
specie 


of tree for later "harvest."  I was informed that branches are frequently bound 
around the meteorite to assist in the embedment.  I saw one such example and it 
was...impressive.  


Little scary, right?

In an effort that provides a faster turnaround, I was recently informed 
lightning rods are being inserted into strategic locations in Saharan sands in 
the effort to produce and harvest flared saharite---the beautifully flanged 
Saharan fulgurites. 


Certainly less scary as there is no effort to deceive.  Clever, actually---and 
yet bothersome as well. 


d,








On Jan 11, 2011, at 8:23 PM, impact...@aol.com wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Since Michael Blood mentionned Sikhote-Alins embedded in trees in his 
> latest "Market Trends" article, and warned everybody against them. And since 
> I 



> have received a few questions about the one I aquired a few months ago, let 
> me 



> try to set the record straight:
> 
> First, here are 2 pictures, the whole thing, and a close-up:
> 
> _http://www.impactika.com/images/satree.jpg_ 
> (http://www.impactika.com/images/satree.jpg) 
> 
> _http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg_ 
> (http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg)  
> 
> It is much bigger than any I have seen before, and the Sikhote-Alin is 
> truly inside the tree. 
> And a member who happens to be an hoticulturist looked at the pictures and 
> wrote: "Looks pretty real to me Anne!  It probably impailed itself into the 
> tree and then the tree grew around it, which explains the "bark" around it". 
> (Thank you Craig!)
> Also I counted the rings, not easy, but there are at least 45. And I trust 
> the Russian dealer I bought it from. 
> So, yes I believe that it is the real/authentic deal, not a scam.  
> 
> And if you want to have a better look at it, it will be in my room in 
> Tucson (Hotel Tucson City Center, Formerly InnSuites, Room 322).
> Speaking of Sikhote-Alin, you will also see there two Sikhote-Alins in "as 
> found" condition that I obtained from the Vernadsky Institute. Yes, with all 
> the paperwork!
> 
> See you all there very soon.
> 
> Anne M. Black
> http://www.impactika.com/
> impact...@aol.com
> President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
> http://www.imca.cc/
> __
> Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

[John Birdsell]

One year's growth should be represented by a light colored early growth band 
AND 
a dark colored late growth band...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology





- Original Message 
From: John Birdsell 
To: Darryl Pitt ; impact...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 10:04:33 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

Count the annual growth rings in the base of the branchif a tree was alive 
in 1947 there should be more than 64.


-J





- Original Message 
From: Darryl Pitt 
To: impact...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 8:35:15 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree


Hi, 

While I am not challenging the integrity of Anne's specimen, there is something 
I should share:  about a decade ago I was informed by an unimpeachable source 
as 

to the existence of what is basically a nursery outside of Vladivostok where 
SAs 

have been wedged into the knots and the forked limbs of a rapidly growing 
specie 

of tree for later "harvest."  I was informed that branches are frequently bound 
around the meteorite to assist in the embedment.  I saw one such example and it 
was...impressive.  


Little scary, right?

In an effort that provides a faster turnaround, I was recently informed 
lightning rods are being inserted into strategic locations in Saharan sands in 
the effort to produce and harvest flared saharite---the beautifully flanged 
Saharan fulgurites. 


Certainly less scary as there is no effort to deceive.  Clever, actually---and 
yet bothersome as well. 


d,








On Jan 11, 2011, at 8:23 PM, impact...@aol.com wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Since Michael Blood mentionned Sikhote-Alins embedded in trees in his 
> latest "Market Trends" article, and warned everybody against them. And since 
> I 


> have received a few questions about the one I aquired a few months ago, let 
> me 


> try to set the record straight:
> 
> First, here are 2 pictures, the whole thing, and a close-up:
> 
> _http://www.impactika.com/images/satree.jpg_ 
> (http://www.impactika.com/images/satree.jpg) 
> 
> _http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg_ 
> (http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg)  
> 
> It is much bigger than any I have seen before, and the Sikhote-Alin is 
> truly inside the tree. 
> And a member who happens to be an hoticulturist looked at the pictures and 
> wrote: "Looks pretty real to me Anne!  It probably impailed itself into the 
> tree and then the tree grew around it, which explains the "bark" around it". 
> (Thank you Craig!)
> Also I counted the rings, not easy, but there are at least 45. And I trust 
> the Russian dealer I bought it from. 
> So, yes I believe that it is the real/authentic deal, not a scam.  
> 
> And if you want to have a better look at it, it will be in my room in 
> Tucson (Hotel Tucson City Center, Formerly InnSuites, Room 322).
> Speaking of Sikhote-Alin, you will also see there two Sikhote-Alins in "as 
> found" condition that I obtained from the Vernadsky Institute. Yes, with all 
> the paperwork!
> 
> See you all there very soon.
> 
> Anne M. Black
> http://www.impactika.com/
> impact...@aol.com
> President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
> http://www.imca.cc/
> __
> Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree

[John Birdsell]

Count the annual growth rings in the base of the branchif a tree was alive 
in 1947 there should be more than 64.


-J





- Original Message 
From: Darryl Pitt 
To: impact...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 8:35:15 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD(?) - Sikhote-Alin in tree


Hi, 

While I am not challenging the integrity of Anne's specimen, there is something 
I should share:  about a decade ago I was informed by an unimpeachable source 
as 
to the existence of what is basically a nursery outside of Vladivostok where 
SAs 
have been wedged into the knots and the forked limbs of a rapidly growing 
specie 
of tree for later "harvest."  I was informed that branches are frequently bound 
around the meteorite to assist in the embedment.  I saw one such example and it 
was...impressive.  


Little scary, right?

In an effort that provides a faster turnaround, I was recently informed 
lightning rods are being inserted into strategic locations in Saharan sands in 
the effort to produce and harvest flared saharite---the beautifully flanged 
Saharan fulgurites. 


Certainly less scary as there is no effort to deceive.  Clever, actually---and 
yet bothersome as well. 


d,








On Jan 11, 2011, at 8:23 PM, impact...@aol.com wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Since Michael Blood mentionned Sikhote-Alins embedded in trees in his 
> latest "Market Trends" article, and warned everybody against them. And since 
> I 

> have received a few questions about the one I aquired a few months ago, let 
> me 

> try to set the record straight:
> 
> First, here are 2 pictures, the whole thing, and a close-up:
> 
> _http://www.impactika.com/images/satree.jpg_ 
> (http://www.impactika.com/images/satree.jpg) 
> 
> _http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg_ 
> (http://www.impactika.com/images/satree2.jpg)  
> 
> It is much bigger than any I have seen before, and the Sikhote-Alin is 
> truly inside the tree. 
> And a member who happens to be an hoticulturist looked at the pictures and 
> wrote: "Looks pretty real to me Anne!  It probably impailed itself into the 
> tree and then the tree grew around it, which explains the "bark" around it". 
> (Thank you Craig!)
> Also I counted the rings, not easy, but there are at least 45. And I trust 
> the Russian dealer I bought it from. 
> So, yes I believe that it is the real/authentic deal, not a scam.  
> 
> And if you want to have a better look at it, it will be in my room in 
> Tucson (Hotel Tucson City Center, Formerly InnSuites, Room 322).
> Speaking of Sikhote-Alin, you will also see there two Sikhote-Alins in "as 
> found" condition that I obtained from the Vernadsky Institute. Yes, with all 
> the paperwork!
> 
> See you all there very soon.
> 
> Anne M. Black
> http://www.impactika.com/
> impact...@aol.com
> President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
> http://www.imca.cc/
> __
> Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 19, 2010

[John Birdsell]

Very interesting Chondrite! Never seen so many small, well-defined thumb-prints 
on a chondriteIt would be interesting to see a cut face (if there is one)?


-J

From: Michael Johnson 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 4:43:58 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 19, 2010

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_19_2010.html




- - -

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[meteorite-list] Congratulations to Mike Miller on his NEW Arizona Meteorite!!!

[John Birdsell]

Hi Mike and congratulations on your new find! Please
post some photos when you get a chance.



Cheers


-John & Dawn
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RE: [meteorite-list] Fukang Pallasite & Chinga Ungrouped?

[John Birdsell]

Hi Christian and thanks for the Update!



-John

--- Christian Anger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> 
> look at 
> 
> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php
> 
> click "what's new"
> 
> and you will see the new entry in the metbull #90.
> 
> Fukang is a main group pallasite.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Christian
> 
> 
> 
> I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc
> website: www.austromet.com
>  
> Ing. Christian Anger
> Korngasse 6
> 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg
> AUSTRIA
>  
> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:meteorite-list-
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
> Fowler
> > Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:20 PM
> > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > Cc: Mike Fowler
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fukang Pallasite &
> Chinga Ungrouped?
> > 
> > Hi List,
> > 
> > I have a Chinga Iron in my collection listed as
> IVB Anomalous.
> > According to this abstract, Chinga is Ungrouped. 
> Is this the latest
> > consensus?  If so I will need a different
> meteorite to represent the
> > IVB group in my collection.
> > 
> > > Lunar and Planetary Science XXXVII (2006)
> sess454.pdf
> > > Honesto J. *   McDonough W. F.Walker R. J.  
>  Corrigan C. M.
> > > McCoy T. J.Chabot N. L.Ash R. D.
> > >
> > > 187 Re-187Os Isotopic and Highly Siderophile
> Element Systematics of
> > > Group IVB Irons, and Ungrouped Irons
> > > Chinga, Tishomingo and Willow Grove [#1374]
> > > IVB irons and the ungrouped irons Chinga,
> Tishomingo and Willow
> > > Grove were analyzed for HSE abundances
> > > and 187Re-187Os systematics. Chinga and Willow
> Grove cannot be
> > > related to the IVBs by igneous fractionation.
> > > Tishomingo is more ambiguous.
> > >
> > 
> > Regarding the Fukang Pallasite, Arizona Skies
> states on their web
> > site that Fukang is Ungrouped.  This is news to
> me.  I searched the
> > internet and could find no info.  Can any one
> confirm the official
> > classification of this pallasite?  Of course, if
> it is ungrouped,
> > I'll have to add it to my collection as well!
> > 
> > Mike Fowler
> > Chicago
> > 
> > 55 unique planetary bodies represented in my
> collection and counting!
> > 
> > PS  Of course, I went to David Weir's Meteorite
> Studies site first to
> > get his take on these two irons, but neither one
> is listed yet!
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 
> __
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>
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> 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Acapulcoite TKW Update

[John Birdsell]

Yes Adam...whatever you say... 


Hey Dean, I think this must correspond to your Rule
#3, what do you think?


Cheers


-John



--- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> John and List,
> 
> This string is getting old. I have not updated my
> auctions and did not
> pretend to know about all of the pairings. I stated
> these exact phrases in
> my auctions:
> 
> "Since it's publication a few more have come out of
> Oman and Northwest
> Africa including the pairings to this one."
> 
> "A Total Known Weight (TKW) of 77 grams is recorded
> for NWA 2989. This
> weight does not reflect any pairings since I do not
> have accurate figures."
> 
> How much more can be said? There is still no
> consensus on TKW of all of the
> pairings, if indeed they are paired. looks like you
> got caught with your
> pants down, being guilty of what you are accusing me
> of. It seems that the
> pairings to this might have been misreported from
> the beginning which is not
> my problem.  NWA 2989 is clean with an accurate
> weight reported.  It is up
> to dealers to police themselves. I only report what
> I know to be accurate.
> 
> Time to walk on this tired "Sting"
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Acapulcoite TKW
> Update
> 
> 
> > Dear Adam. Please stop trying to place the blame
> for
> > your problems elsewhere. If you had read our
> website
> > before we updated it, we clearly stated that "NWA
> 2714
> > comes from the same ~7.5 kilo stone as NWA 2656."
> This
> > is what the classifying scientist stated in his
> write
> > up. We didn't tell him that, he told us. We also
> > didn't try to pretend that there was only a few
> grams
> > of this Acapulcoite like a certain other dealer we
> > know. We clearly stated that there was 7.5 kg of
> this
> > Acapulcoite. According to the Met Base, 7.5kg was
> the
> > TKW of the Acapulcoite when you made your ebay
> > listings. In fact, 7.5kg was the TKW of the
> > Acapulcoite until a few hours ago when Stan
> clarified
> > the situation with NWA 2656 on this list. Now,
> with
> > the recent additions by list members the TKW for
> this
> > Acapulcoite stands at over 10kg. The real question
> > here is why didn't you report the TKW in your ebay
> > listings and why are your current ebay ads are
> still
> > running with the incorrect information? Come on
> Adam.
> > Don't you think your customers deserve to know the
> > truth about how much of your "Ultra Rare
> Acapulcoite"
> > there is out there?
> >
> >
> > Good night
> >
> >
> > -John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > This does not explain why you had no weight
> listed
> > > at all on your web-site
> > > according to the cached version in google.com
> which
> > > is only one day old if
> > > you knew there was 1,666 grams plus a 7.5
> kilogram
> > > stone.  You asked me to
> > > back up my claims with pictures and said you
> were
> > > curious because I didn't
> > > report an unknown and unreported mass weight. It
> > > seems you are guilty of the
> > > same thing to a larger extent even though you
> > > apparently knew more than I
> > > did when this string started. Here is your
> statement
> > > putting me under the
> > > thumb-screws. Can we ask you the same questions?
> > >
> > > 
> > > Did the write up describe it as a whole stone?
> Is it
> > > surrounded by fusion
> > > crust like a whole stone? If so, could you
> > > maybe post some pics for the list?
> > >
> > > We were just curious, because in your ebay ad
> you
> > > stated that you didn't
> > > have any accurate figures on the TKW of
> pairings,
> > > and yet, the TKW of ~7.5kg
> > > has been publicly available on the internet for
> > > months now, and in the
> > > Meteorite Bulletin data base it states the
> > > following:
> > > *
> > >
> > > I will ask Jim Witke about the reported weight
> of
> > > NWA 2714 which stands at
> > > 100 grams since he is a stickler for accuracy.
> Still
&

Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Acapulcoite TKW Update

[John Birdsell]

Dear Adam. Please stop trying to place the blame for
your problems elsewhere. If you had read our website
before we updated it, we clearly stated that "NWA 2714
comes from the same ~7.5 kilo stone as NWA 2656." This
is what the classifying scientist stated in his write
up. We didn't tell him that, he told us. We also
didn't try to pretend that there was only a few grams
of this Acapulcoite like a certain other dealer we
know. We clearly stated that there was 7.5 kg of this
Acapulcoite. According to the Met Base, 7.5kg was the
TKW of the Acapulcoite when you made your ebay
listings. In fact, 7.5kg was the TKW of the
Acapulcoite until a few hours ago when Stan clarified
the situation with NWA 2656 on this list. Now, with
the recent additions by list members the TKW for this
Acapulcoite stands at over 10kg. The real question
here is why didn't you report the TKW in your ebay
listings and why are your current ebay ads are still
running with the incorrect information? Come on Adam.
Don't you think your customers deserve to know the
truth about how much of your "Ultra Rare Acapulcoite"
there is out there? 


Good night


-John

 

--- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi John,
> 
> This does not explain why you had no weight listed
> at all on your web-site
> according to the cached version in google.com which
> is only one day old if
> you knew there was 1,666 grams plus a 7.5 kilogram
> stone.  You asked me to
> back up my claims with pictures and said you were
> curious because I didn't
> report an unknown and unreported mass weight. It
> seems you are guilty of the
> same thing to a larger extent even though you
> apparently knew more than I
> did when this string started. Here is your statement
> putting me under the
> thumb-screws. Can we ask you the same questions?
> 
> 
> Did the write up describe it as a whole stone? Is it
> surrounded by fusion
> crust like a whole stone? If so, could you
> maybe post some pics for the list?
> 
> We were just curious, because in your ebay ad you
> stated that you didn't
> have any accurate figures on the TKW of pairings,
> and yet, the TKW of ~7.5kg
> has been publicly available on the internet for
> months now, and in the
> Meteorite Bulletin data base it states the
> following:
> *
> 
> I will ask Jim Witke about the reported weight of
> NWA 2714 which stands at
> 100 grams since he is a stickler for accuracy. Still
> waiting to hear why you
> recently added the weight to your web-site when it
> was not there before this
> "string" started or should I state "Sting"?
> 
> Take Care,
> 
> Adam
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Acapulcoite TKW
> Update
> 
> 
> > Hi Adam. Yes, we completely understand your
> confusion
> > over all of the different TKW's reported. That is
> why
> > we are attempting to clarify this issue once and
> for
> > all. The important thing to note is that the TKW
> now
> > stands at over 10kg. NAU's website will eventually
> > need to be corrected as will the provisional Met
> > Bulletin once we get this TKW issue sorted out.
> The
> > TKW of NWA 2714 is 1666g, not 100g. According to
> the
> > classifying Scientist, our NWA 2714 came from the
> > 7.5kg whole stone that now appears to be wholly
> > accounted for by Stan's and Nelson's portions.
> > Therefore, since that obviously is incorrect, our
> 1666
> > grams of NWA 2714 either came from a larger stone
> that
> > was broken into fragments which were then sold to
> > Stan, Nelson, us, some others and perhaps you, or
> > perhaps it was a separate individual (I doubt the
> > latter). We try to keep our website updated to
> reflect
> > the new TKW as we understood it 40 minutes ago. Of
> > course we will now need to further update it once
> we
> > tabulate the additional masses of other pairings
> > kindly provided to us by list members. We'll be
> happy
> > to share this total with you once we get it so
> that
> > you can update your ebay auctions too, but for now
> I
> > think it is safe to say there is more than 10kg of
> > this beautiful material in existance. It is
> important
> > to properly report the TKW so that the collectors
> know
> > the facts as we currently understand them.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> > -John
> >
> &

Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Acapulcoite TKW Update

[John Birdsell]

Hi Adam. Yes, we completely understand your confusion
over all of the different TKW's reported. That is why
we are attempting to clarify this issue once and for
all. The important thing to note is that the TKW now
stands at over 10kg. NAU's website will eventually
need to be corrected as will the provisional Met
Bulletin once we get this TKW issue sorted out. The
TKW of NWA 2714 is 1666g, not 100g. According to the
classifying Scientist, our NWA 2714 came from the
7.5kg whole stone that now appears to be wholly
accounted for by Stan's and Nelson's portions.
Therefore, since that obviously is incorrect, our 1666
grams of NWA 2714 either came from a larger stone that
was broken into fragments which were then sold to
Stan, Nelson, us, some others and perhaps you, or
perhaps it was a separate individual (I doubt the
latter). We try to keep our website updated to reflect
the new TKW as we understood it 40 minutes ago. Of
course we will now need to further update it once we
tabulate the additional masses of other pairings
kindly provided to us by list members. We'll be happy
to share this total with you once we get it so that
you can update your ebay auctions too, but for now I
think it is safe to say there is more than 10kg of
this beautiful material in existance. It is important
to properly report the TKW so that the collectors know
the facts as we currently understand them.


Cheers


-John


--- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Dear John and List,
> 
> I applaud trying to nail down the TKW but as Stan
> stated NWA 2656 was
> divided among two owners. I was not supplied by
> either one of them. You
> claim NWA 2714 with a reported TKW of 100 grams
> according to NAU's documents
> was part of this same mass. Stan claims it was
> divided between Nelson Oaks
> and himself with a claimed weight 386 grams. Now you
> claim the weight of NWA
> 2714 is 1,666 grams on your recently updated
> web-site. The cached website
> results for your site from google make no mention of
> the weight.  It was
> brought in to question whether my stone was a
> fragment of this one and I
> responded it was not. I was then dragged through the
> ringer on TKWs which
> make absolutely no sense since parts of the same
> stone have been claimed
> under different numbers. Since I had to explain my
> position, maybe you can
> explain the website discrepancy and the 100 gram
> recorded weight on NAU's
> site below. I am sure everybody would like to know
> about NWA 2714.
> 
>
http://www4.nau.edu/meteorite/Meteorite/PrimitiveAchondrite.html
> 
> I was sincere in my statements regarding the nature
> of tracking TKWs on
> pairings. As you can see, this is a mess!
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> 
> ----
> Adam Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> Team LunarRock
> IMCA 2185
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:39 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Acapulcoite TKW Update
> 
> 
> > Hi Stan and thanks for your email. Ok, I think
> that
> > this Acapulcoite TKW thing really needs to get
> nailed
> > down before the next Met Bulletin comes out. Can
> > everyone that has a significant amount of this
> > material write us either on or off list so that we
> can
> > add up all of the pieces and get the correct TKW.
> > Stan, am I correct in assuming that between you
> and
> > Nelson, you had 7500 grams of NWA 2656? We had
> 1666
> > grams of NWA 2714, so that brings the TKW weight
> up to
> > at least 9166 grams, plus Adam's 77 grams = 9243
> > grams...Any more out there?
> >
> >
> > -John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > for those that might be curious the mass of 2656
> was
> > > broken into 'pieces' -
> > > as in 2 pieces. Nelson Oaks has one and I have
> the
> > > other, with a few slices
> > > being sold off here and there. If Adam's piece
> is
> > > paired then the bueaty of
> > > this stuff really cant be understated - it's
> > > gorgeous material. IF anyone
> > > wants a piece and 4 or 5 grams isnt enough then
> > > wirte Nelson, I belive his
> > > piece is up for grabs - or at least it was
> listed in
> > > Lang's auction at
> > > tucson...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: John Birdsell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> &

[meteorite-list] Re: Acapulcoite TKW Update

[John Birdsell]

Hi Stan and thanks for your email. Ok, I think that
this Acapulcoite TKW thing really needs to get nailed
down before the next Met Bulletin comes out. Can
everyone that has a significant amount of this
material write us either on or off list so that we can
add up all of the pieces and get the correct TKW.
Stan, am I correct in assuming that between you and
Nelson, you had 7500 grams of NWA 2656? We had 1666
grams of NWA 2714, so that brings the TKW weight up to
at least 9166 grams, plus Adam's 77 grams = 9243
grams...Any more out there?


-John 



--- "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> for those that might be curious the mass of 2656 was
> broken into 'pieces' - 
> as in 2 pieces. Nelson Oaks has one and I have the
> other, with a few slices 
> being sold off here and there. If Adam's piece is
> paired then the bueaty of 
> this stuff really cant be understated - it's
> gorgeous material. IF anyone 
> wants a piece and 4 or 5 grams isnt enough then
> wirte Nelson, I belive his 
> piece is up for grabs - or at least it was listed in
> Lang's auction at 
> tucson...
> 
> 
> 
> >From: John Birdsell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Adam's NWA 2989
> Acapulcoite
> >Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:21:11 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Hi Bernd...Yes, if it is paired to our new
> Acapulcoite
> >NWA 2714 and NWA 2656, then the provisional
> write-up
> >in MB90 states that the TKW is accounted for by a
> >single ~ 7.5 kilogram stone which was apparently
> >broken into pieces and sold.
> >
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >
> >-John
> >
> >
> >
> >--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > Hello All !
> > >
> > > I've just purchased my 3.7-gram, extremely
> metal-
> > > and troilite-rich slice
> > > of NWA 2989 (Item #6605571076 - just in case you
> > > care to take a look ;-)
> > > that Adam is offering on EBay. Look at it and
> you'll
> > > know what I mean!
> > >
> > > Adam writes:
> > >
> > > "...TKW of 77 grams is recorded for NWA 2989.
> This
> > > weight does
> > >  not reflect any pairings since I do not have
> > > accurate figures."
> > >
> > > It is probably paired with NWA 2656, of which I
> own
> > > a beautiful slice
> > > weighing 0.29 grams.
> > >
> > > Adam also writes: "... the lowest price you will
> > > find on EBay."
> > >
> > > And right he is! I paid $290 for my little,
> > > beautiful NWA 2656 (which I do not
> > > regret!). Go figure and do the maths what I
> would
> > > have had to pay for more than
> > > 10 times the weight (3.7 grams) of my 0.29-gram
> > > ACAP.
> > >
> > > The specimen that comes closest to the one I
> > > purchased seems to be the 2.55-gram
> > > part slice - also very metal-rich and almost
> like my
> > > little NWA 2656 with all its
> > > delicate veins and veinlets. It doesn't show
> those
> > > slender troilite inclusions but
> > > this part slice would be my choice no. 2. I'd
> buy
> > > both of them if I could afford it!
> > >
> > > What makes acapulcoites, and especially this
> one, so
> > > interesting is their achondritic,
> > > granular texture and, at the same time, they
> have an
> > > ordinary chondrite mineralogy.
> > > That's why you find both abundant metal (similar
> to
> > > H chondrites!) and sulfide in them.
> > >
> > > Another interesting feature is the rare
> occurrence
> > > of relict chondrules, and, as they do
> > > not plot too far away from both angrites,
> > > brachinites on the one hand, and from ureilites
> > > on the other, you will also find grain
> boundaries
> > > meeting in triple junctions (120°).
> > >
> > >
> > > Best Acapucoitic wishes,
> > > and Good Night,
> > >
> > > Bernd
> > >
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > >
>
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> >__
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Adam's NWA 2989 Acapulcoite

[John Birdsell]

Hi Adam...We were just curious, because in your ebay
ad you stated that you didn't have any accurate
figures on the TKW of pairings, and yet, the TKW of
~7.5kg has been publicly available on the internet for
months now, and in the Meteorite Bulletin data base it
states the following:


"[Provisional text]

Northwest Africa 2656

Morocco or Algeria

Find: Purchased 2003

Achondrite (acapulcoite)

History: A 386 g broken stone with weathered fusion
crust (part of a larger ~7.5 kg mass found in 2003)
was purchased in Erfoud, Morocco in 2004 for N. Oakes.
Petrography (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU; A. Irving,
UWS): The specimen is recrystallized into homogeneous
polygonal and subhedral grains with a grain size of <1
mm and a somewhat equal distribution of phases.
Composition: Olivine Fa8.0 FeO/MnO = 16-19 (N = 25);
Orthopyroxene Fs8.4Wo2.4, N = 17; Plagioclase
An18.3Ð21.0Or2.8Ð3.4; Chromite, (Cr/Cr+Al) = 0.85,
Mg/(Mg+Fe) = 0.41. Troilite, schreibersite and
kamacite are also present.  Oxygen Isotopes (D.
Rumble, CIW): Replicate analyses by laser fluorination
gave d17O = 1.71, 1.69ä, d18O = 5.05, 5.04ä, D17O =
-0.953, -0.973ä, respectively.  Classification:
Achondrite (acapulcoite) with minor shock and moderate
weathering. Specimens: A 21 g specimen and one
polished thin section are on deposit at NAU.  Oakes
holds the main mass."






--- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi John and List,
> 
> As I stated in my auction, the nomenclature is
> provisional. I do not have an
> image of the whole stone but I do have a receipt
> stating the weight of 77
> grams. As I mentioned in my auction, this weight was
> attributed to NWA 2989
> only and not any other pairings. It was also
> mentioned to the List that I
> believed it to be paired to NWA 2656 which has an
> official weight of 386
> grams. If somebody claimed a false weight on NWA
> 2656 that is not my
> problem. I got a good deal on the complete stone so
> I released my material
> at a reasonable price. If somebody is complaining
> about paying $40.00/50.00
> a gram for this beauty when others are selling it at
> 10 times this amount
> then there truly is a problem regardless of how much
> weight is out there.  I
> reported what I had correctly. I cannot keep track
> of other pairings and
> nobody else can either. You made this argument when
> we were talking about
> what constitutes a main mass. If others knew there
> was more weight and the
> other pieces came from a single large stone then
> they should have reported
> it.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> 
> Adam Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> Team LunarRock
> IMCA 2185
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Adam's NWA 2989
> Acapulcoite
> 
> 
> > Hi Adam...the classification write-up usually
> states
> > whether it is likely paired to other meteorites.
> What
> > did your write up state? If it is a complete
> > individual, and it is paired to NWA 2656 and NWA
> 2714
> > and others, then I would think the TKW for this
> > grouping must be over 7.5 kilos. Did the write up
> > describe it as a whole stone? Is it surrounded by
> > fusion crust like a whole stone? If so, could you
> > maybe post some pics for the list?
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > -John
> >
> > --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi List,
> > >
> > > I believe it is paired to others but mine came
> as an
> > > individual not broken
> > > from another piece as far as I can tell. Anyway
> you
> > > look at, this new
> > > Acapulcoite is one great looking meteorite,
> > > especially when polished to a
> > > mirror finish.
> > >
> > > Take Care,
> > >
> > > 
> > > Adam Hupe
> > > The Hupe Collection
> > > Team LunarRock
> > > IMCA 2185
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > >
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>
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> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Adam's NWA 2989 Acapulcoite

[John Birdsell]

Hi Adam...the classification write-up usually states
whether it is likely paired to other meteorites. What
did your write up state? If it is a complete
individual, and it is paired to NWA 2656 and NWA 2714
and others, then I would think the TKW for this
grouping must be over 7.5 kilos. Did the write up
describe it as a whole stone? Is it surrounded by
fusion crust like a whole stone? If so, could you
maybe post some pics for the list?


Thanks!


-John

--- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi List,
> 
> I believe it is paired to others but mine came as an
> individual not broken
> from another piece as far as I can tell. Anyway you
> look at, this new
> Acapulcoite is one great looking meteorite,
> especially when polished to a
> mirror finish.
> 
> Take Care,
> 
> 
> Adam Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> Team LunarRock
> IMCA 2185
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Adam's NWA 2989 Acapulcoite

[John Birdsell]

Hi Bernd...Yes, if it is paired to our new Acapulcoite
NWA 2714 and NWA 2656, then the provisional write-up
in MB90 states that the TKW is accounted for by a
single ~ 7.5 kilogram stone which was apparently
broken into pieces and sold. 


Cheers


-John



--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hello All !
> 
> I've just purchased my 3.7-gram, extremely metal-
> and troilite-rich slice
> of NWA 2989 (Item #6605571076 - just in case you
> care to take a look ;-)
> that Adam is offering on EBay. Look at it and you'll
> know what I mean!
> 
> Adam writes:
> 
> "...TKW of 77 grams is recorded for NWA 2989. This
> weight does
>  not reflect any pairings since I do not have
> accurate figures."
> 
> It is probably paired with NWA 2656, of which I own
> a beautiful slice
> weighing 0.29 grams.
> 
> Adam also writes: "... the lowest price you will
> find on EBay."
> 
> And right he is! I paid $290 for my little,
> beautiful NWA 2656 (which I do not
> regret!). Go figure and do the maths what I would
> have had to pay for more than
> 10 times the weight (3.7 grams) of my 0.29-gram
> ACAP.
> 
> The specimen that comes closest to the one I
> purchased seems to be the 2.55-gram
> part slice - also very metal-rich and almost like my
> little NWA 2656 with all its
> delicate veins and veinlets. It doesn't show those
> slender troilite inclusions but
> this part slice would be my choice no. 2. I'd buy
> both of them if I could afford it!
> 
> What makes acapulcoites, and especially this one, so
> interesting is their achondritic,
> granular texture and, at the same time, they have an
> ordinary chondrite mineralogy.
> That's why you find both abundant metal (similar to
> H chondrites!) and sulfide in them.
> 
> Another interesting feature is the rare occurrence
> of relict chondrules, and, as they do
> not plot too far away from both angrites,
> brachinites on the one hand, and from ureilites
> on the other, you will also find grain boundaries
> meeting in triple junctions (120°).
> 
> 
> Best Acapucoitic wishes,
> and Good Night,
> 
> Bernd
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] fukang meteorite pallasite

[John Birdsell]

Steve...ancient chinese proverb say...

"Better to get your information straight from horse's
mouth than from horse's other end."


Cheers


-John





--- "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I was told that there is over 900 kilo's of this
> pallasite.At the munich
> show I was also told that there was over 100 kilo's
> of this there.So there
> is alot to go around.I was also told that a certain
> meteorite dealer has
> over 400 kilo's.So I guess there is alot to go
> around.So where is it
> all?And when the flood gates open,how much per gram
> will this be going
> for?It will be interesting to see how this turns
> out.I also hear that this
> is bigger than esquel.WOW!!!But it is also a
> ruster!I do need to know more
> about this pallasite.I will be listening.
> 
> 
>steve
> arnold,chicago
> 
> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
>  
> 
> Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!
> 
> 
> website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
>   
> __ 
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> http://mail.yahoo.com
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[meteorite-list] AD-Announcing NWA 3368 a "pink" Eucrite containing Diogenite Clasts!

[John Birdsell]

Hello all. We are please to announce another
spectacular new achondrite-NWA 3368(prov.). This is a
particularly showy and beautiful Eucrite, having
diogenite clasts and extremely fine grained basaltic
clasts embedded in a light matrix having a pink hue!
Many of the larger slices also have sizeable pieces of
metal showing! This is a visually striking eucrite,
and the scientists that classified it dubbed it the
"pink eucrite". 


Specimens are now up on the website.


Enjoy!


-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] "Mars VISION" Meteorite on Ebay

[John Birdsell]

That is a smoking DEAL! I'd jump on it if I were you.
A few weeks ago he was asking $30,000,000.00 for it!



-John



--- Matt Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Wanna laugh hysterically?
>

> 
> -- 
> <><><><><>
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> http://www.mrmeteorite.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> eBay user id: mhmeteorites
> 
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Fukang

[John Birdsell]

Hi Michael. Yes, what you said was that:
 
"It [Fukang] was being offered at less than 10Euros a
gram in large chunks, I saw pieces from 100 grams to 2
kilos."

I believe the operative phrase here is 'LARGE chunks',
not beautiful, 10-20g translucent part slices, but
LARGE chunks.

2000g x 10 Euro/gram = ~$24,000.00

That is pretty much the wholesale price for that
quantity of Esquel, isn't it? I'm betting that there
is currently more Esquel available for the market than
Fukang, and most collectors already have Esquel.
Almost no one has any Fukang and there are very few
places that one could purchase it if they wanted to.
We can each make up our own minds as for what that
means for the market, but if you think the market is
going to be "flooded" with Fukang, then by all means
wait.


Cheers


-John



--- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I thought I made it clear that it was being offered
> here at less than 10 euros per gram, if you have
> some
> esquel for that price, chunks, slices, or endcuts,
> you
> let me know, I will buy, but thus Fukang pallasite,
> while gorgeous, if fukang huge, and with 900 kilos,
> or
> 300 kilos, the market cant hold up a high fukang
> price.
> Bob Haag and I were discussing it over many beers at
> the Hofbrauhaus saturday night, and we both know
> what
> is going to happen. High price on market, low sales,
> then panic and offers very cheap. 
> It has happened to many times before.
> Mike Farmer
> 
> 
> 
> -- John Birdsell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Rob...My personal opinion is that Fukang will
> not
> > be selling for any less that it has been selling
> > for,
> > and my bet is that, if anything it will be selling
> > for
> > more. When you say Mike saw a "whole bunch" in
> > Munich,
> > I'm assuming it was less than or equal to 7.7
> kilos
> > of
> > mostly end-pieces. In any case, it is pretty clear
> > to
> > me that the majority of the Fukang pallasite will
> > not
> > be hitting the market, and considering that it is
> > the
> > only best looking pallasite out there, I don't
> think
> > that any of the very few people that have any will
> > be
> > in any big hurry to sell it for less than
> > say...Esquel. If anything my prediction would be
> > that
> > it will be priced well above Esquel.
> > 
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > 
> > -John
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > --- Rob Wesel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > So, to sum up:
> > > 
> > > There isn't a whole lot of fukang meteorite to
> go
> > > round so don't expect the 
> > > fukang price to go down.
> > > 
> > > If you're looking for a fukang deal you may not
> a
> > > get a fukang specimen.
> > > 
> > > But then Mike saw a whole bunch of fukang
> > meteorites
> > > in Munich so the whole 
> > > fukang market is in question.
> > > 
> > > Rob Wesel
> > > http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
> > > --
> > > We are the music makers...
> > > and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> > > Willy Wonka, 1971
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Arizona Skies Meteorites
> > 
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 





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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Fukang

[John Birdsell]

Hi Rob...My personal opinion is that Fukang will not
be selling for any less that it has been selling for,
and my bet is that, if anything it will be selling for
more. When you say Mike saw a "whole bunch" in Munich,
I'm assuming it was less than or equal to 7.7 kilos of
mostly end-pieces. In any case, it is pretty clear to
me that the majority of the Fukang pallasite will not
be hitting the market, and considering that it is the
only best looking pallasite out there, I don't think
that any of the very few people that have any will be
in any big hurry to sell it for less than
say...Esquel. If anything my prediction would be that
it will be priced well above Esquel.


Cheers


-John

 

--- Rob Wesel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So, to sum up:
> 
> There isn't a whole lot of fukang meteorite to go
> round so don't expect the 
> fukang price to go down.
> 
> If you're looking for a fukang deal you may not a
> get a fukang specimen.
> 
> But then Mike saw a whole bunch of fukang meteorites
> in Munich so the whole 
> fukang market is in question.
> 
> Rob Wesel
> http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
> --
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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[meteorite-list] Re: Fukang

[John Birdsell]

Mike Farmer Wrote:

Also there was a lot of
> the ´Fuking` Pallasite from China. It was being
> offered at less than 10Euros a gram in large chunks,
> I saw pieces from 100 grams to 2 kilos. Apparently
> the buyers have divided the massive pallasite up and
> are now going to flood the market. Looks like a good
> buying opportunity when the price collapses. It is
> beautiful stuff, but with over 900 kilos,  coming on
> the market, we know where this goes. 

Actually, there was probably at most 7.7 kilos of
Fukang end-pieces at the Munich show. There is another
~480 kilos at the University of Arizona which is, as
far as we know, not ever going to reach the market,
and there is another ~480 kg which is destined to be
sold as full slices to very wealthy members of the art
community at somewhere around $250,000.00 per slice.
If anyone thinks there is going to be a "flood" of
Fukang hitting the market, I wouldn't hold my breath. 


Cheers


-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com


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[meteorite-list] Seymchan, Muonionalusta, & other Ebay Listings-Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone! Thanks to the many of you that made it to Tucson this 
year. We enjoyed meeting a number of new friends and hope to see you 
here again next year!  We have some very nice meteorite auctions ending 
on ebay shortly. These include a beautiful Muonionalusta with No 
Reserve, a huge 367g Seymchan pallasite end-cut w/ no reserve and a ton 
of other wonderful specimens. Please feel free to check out these and 
our other auctions at:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZarizona_skies_meteorites_power_sellersQQhtZ-1

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Did Gibeons Collide?

[John Birdsell]

Hi RubenI think that it may reflect the progression of cooling from 
different regions which resulted in different crystaline patterns 
intersecting. I'm sure someone on the list will have a good explanation. 
We had one with three distinct patterns which was pretty cool too! Check 
it out:

http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/AZ_Skies_Links/Etched_Meteorites/Etched_Gibeon/3130gEtched_Gibeon/index.html
Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Ruben Garcia wrote:
Hi All,
Can someone explain this...
Is it as simple as two Gibeons colliding in space? Or
is there some other explanation? 

This is the 1st cut on a larger Gibeon meteorite. It
is common practice for me to etch the 1st piece
immediately after it is cut. I do this without any
sanding or polishing. Its done for the purpose of
checking the etch ( I like to make sure it is a rich
brilliant etch before slicing and dicing the entire
meteorite.) When this beautiful etch began to appear I
started to see two completely different widmanstatten
patterns appearing. when the etch was complete after
only a few minutes this is what I saw. I've cut and
etched hundreds of iron meteorites and etched
thousands of slices and never before seen such a
distinct separation in two patterns on the same
meteorite.
Has anyone else ever seen ( outside of a museum)
something like this?

http://www.geocities.com/meteoritemall/gib1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/meteoritemall/gib2.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/meteoritemall/gib3.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/meteoritemall/gib4.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/meteoritemall/gib5.JPG
Thanks, Ruben
		
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Re: [meteorite-list] Nice CAI in a CV3

[John Birdsell]

Hi GregThat first one sure looks like it could have been a spherical 
CAI having chondritic material in it. It would be interesting to slice 
the other one open and study its structure!

Cheers
-John

Greg Hupe wrote:
Hello all CAI lovers,
Here are a couple of links to some monster sized CAI's from two 
different NWA 3118 specimens I brought back from a Morocco trip last 
summer. I have since sold them and they reside in a great home:

http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa3118/nwa3118a.jpg
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa3118/nwa3118b.jpg
Happy viewing,
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
naturesvault
meteoritelab
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - From: "Martinh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 2:59 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nice CAI in a CV3

Hi All,
At the Tucson show, I picked up a nice NWA end section with a 
wonderful CAI. I know, I know, its not an historic L6, but it is 
pretty cool anyway.

When I do talks about the solar system, I like to pass around a CAI 
for the obvious reasons. Now I can hold one up in front of a class 
and everyone can see it.

Here are some pics of the piece:
http://challenge.isu.edu/nwa2086.html
Notice the smaller CAI island that drifted off the mainland, looking 
somewhat like Madagascar off the east coast of Africa.

Any thoughts on the CAI would be appreciated.
Happy viewing.
Martin H



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Re: [meteorite-list] Nice CAI in a CV3

[John Birdsell]

Hi Martin, Rob and everyone! Yes, it could be a crucible shaped CAI with 
chondritic material within the bowl shaped depression. The American 
Museum of Natural History is studying this specimen and they think it 
may be a radically deformed crucible shaped CAI. I will try to post a 
copy of the abstract on the website as soon as possible. They have not 
yet performed X-ray tomography, but I am told that this will be one of 
the analyses performed, and this could reveal whether it is crucible 
shaped or spherical. Having cut the series of slices accross this CAI I 
believe that it could definitely be spherical.  I think that this may be 
a more likely scenerio than a fluke dissection for another reason-there 
are more than one donut shaped CAIs having chondritic material within it 
in this same stone. It would be very unlikely for me to have 
accidentally cut two different CAIs to produce this same very unusual 
effect.

Cheers
-John

Martinh wrote:
Hi all CAI lovers,
Looking at the jelly doughnut (chondrule-filled CAI), I wondered if 
the  appearance could be misleading. I have seen some CAIs that are 
rather  convoluted meaning in a 3-D view, they might form a cone or 
other shape  where if cut along the right plane, it would appear as if 
the CAI was  completely surrounding the chondrules, but in reality, 
the chondrule  material is actually inside more of a CAI pipe or ice 
cream cone.  Therefore in a cross-section, say through the top of an 
ice cream cone,  it would appear that the cone material was completely 
encasing the ice  cream, but in reality, it is not.

Just some thoughts when looking at a wonderful collection of CAIs 
from  around the world. This is what makes this list fun!

Cheers,
Martin H

On Feb 8, 2005, at 8:25 PM, Rob Wesel wrote:
I have enjoyed every one of these as NWA 3118 is a favorite of mine  
but John's in particular begs the question:

If CAI's are the oldest things out there then how does chondritic  
material get completely encapsulated inside of one?

We have a lot to learn from this meteorite.
Rob Wesel
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971

- Original Message ----- From: "John Birdsell"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nice CAI in a CV3


Hello Martin and MatteoThose are definitely nice CAIs, but  
definitely check out the CAI at this link!!!

http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/AZ_Skies_Links/NWA_2364/ 
index.html

Cheers
-John

M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
This is others nice CAI's in my NWA CV
http://it.geocities.com/mcomemeteoritecollection/NWA1807.JPG
http://it.geocities.com/mcomemeteoritecollection/NWA2180gr.8.9.JPG
Matteo
--- Martinh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto:
Hi All,
At the Tucson show, I picked up a nice NWA end
section with a wonderful CAI. I know, I know, its not an historic  
L6, but it
is pretty cool anyway.

When I do talks about the solar system, I like to
pass around a CAI for the obvious reasons. Now I can hold one up 
in  front
of a class and everyone can see it.

Here are some pics of the piece:
http://challenge.isu.edu/nwa2086.html
Notice the smaller CAI island that drifted off the
mainland, looking somewhat like Madagascar off the east coast of
Africa.
Any thoughts on the CAI would be appreciated.
Happy viewing.
Martin H



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M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site:  
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/

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Re: [meteorite-list] Nice CAI in a CV3

[John Birdsell]

Hello Martin and MatteoThose are definitely nice CAIs, but 
definitely check out the CAI at this link!!!

http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/AZ_Skies_Links/NWA_2364/index.html
Cheers
-John

M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
This is others nice CAI's in my NWA CV
http://it.geocities.com/mcomemeteoritecollection/NWA1807.JPG
http://it.geocities.com/mcomemeteoritecollection/NWA2180gr.8.9.JPG
Matteo
--- Martinh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: 
 

Hi All,
At the Tucson show, I picked up a nice NWA end
section with a wonderful 
CAI. I know, I know, its not an historic L6, but it
is pretty cool 
anyway.

When I do talks about the solar system, I like to
pass around a CAI for 
the obvious reasons. Now I can hold one up in front
of a class and 
everyone can see it.

Here are some pics of the piece:
http://challenge.isu.edu/nwa2086.html
Notice the smaller CAI island that drifted off the
mainland, looking 
somewhat like Madagascar off the east coast of
Africa.

Any thoughts on the CAI would be appreciated.
Happy viewing.
Martin H



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Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/

		
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Re: [meteorite-list] Metal in Mike's new find from Oman

[John Birdsell]

Congratulations to Mike!  Way to go big guy! I think we have all holding 
our breaths hoping that it would be confirmed soon and now that it has 
been, it's time to celebrate (and maybe pick up a slice or two  ;-)  !

Cheers

-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello All,
I just got this message from an overjoyed Mike Farmer.
Overjoyed and "freaking out" because of the following
message.
Sincerest congrats, you lucky one !!!
 

Bernd, I am at the tucson show and from this hotel no posts go
out to the list. Can you please post that I have just received
confirmation on my find from Oman, it is a LUNAR, highlands
microbreccia full of impact melted clasts of both mare and
highlands componants! It is likely to be a uniqe lunar,
certainly not paired with any Oman finds! 
   

 

Oh my god Bernd, I am just freaking out that I found my
own moon rock with my own eyes and hands! Thanks, Mike
   

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[meteorite-list] "Fractal" Etch In New East African Iron

[John Birdsell]

Hello all...we would like to share a photo of a new east African Iron 
meteorite that has an amazing "fractal-like" etch pattern. When we 
showed this to John Wasson at UCLA he said that he had never seen a 
pattern like it before. We have posted a high resolution image which can 
be viewed at the following link:

http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/New_Iron/index.html
Be patient as it is a very high resolution image and may take a minute 
or two to download on dial  ups.  Once the page loads, click on the 
image and zoom in and then zoom in further.  You will see etch patterns 
within etch patterns within etch patterns-really amazing!

Hope you enjoy and we'll see you here in Tucson.
Cheers

-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com

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[meteorite-list] NWA 3133 "Real Deal"-blah blah blah

[John Birdsell]

Dear Greg and Adam...Please stop trying to start trouble on this list 
and save your sale pitches for the used car lot. If either of you had 
any class you wouldn't try to butt in on other dealers ads right after 
they had been posted and you wouldn't make reckless comments impugning 
Ted Bunch or other meteorite dealers. As far as our primitive achondrite 
NWA 2643 is concerned, it has been microprobed and was paired to NWA 
3133 by Ted Bunch.  No "second guessing" involved whatsoever. So Adam 
and Greg if you want to continue to argue about this topic please take 
it off the list and take it up with Dr. Bunch as we are really not the 
least bit interested in any of your opinions. 

As for the collectors that are interested in our newly classified 
primitive achondrite NWA 2643, we are sure that we will be able to offer 
expertly prepared part slices for a fraction of the price that other 
"dealers" are offering similar over priced materials for. 

Kindest regards
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com

Greg Hupe wrote:
Dear list members,
We start the Official NWA 3133 material out at just 99 cents every 
week on ebay and let the market determine the value.  NWA 3133 has 
several published abstracts, is official and its provenance is 
unquestionable because of oxygen isotope testing.  Get a piece of the 
meteorite that started it all and is the only official CV7 in 
existence, no need for second guessing. We have seen too much material 
that is "close" to the real deal, but no comprehensive testing was 
completed of the others and/or microprobe data has proven them not to 
be paired.

We are currently taking orders for Complete Slices , Part Slices or 
what ever type of specimen you would like. We will cut thin and 
diamond lap polish BOTH sides to meet the high standards set for 
material from The Hupe Collection.

Why buy second guess material when you can have the one that started 
it all, Official NWA 3133! Accepting custom orders now at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] where you will not be disappointed in ANY 
aspect of the deal.

Best regards,
Greg and Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
naturesvault
meteoritelab
IMCA 2185
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[meteorite-list] New Primative Achondrite paired w/ NWA 3133 Available! Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone...we are looking forward to seeing many of you here at 
the Tucson show and are pleased to announce that we will be offering 
beautiful (and comparatively large) part slices from a newly classifed 
primative achondrite NWA 2643 in the near future at very reasonable 
prices.  NWA 2643 has been provisionally paired with NWA 3133 of which 
we have heard so much hoopla on the list and which one dealer has been 
selling for $375 per gram! We will be offering our slices for a fraction 
of that price! This is a really interesting and unique primative 
achondrite fall in that it has been referred to as the first known "CV7" 
and is thought to have formed through metamorphic or igneous processes 
deep within the parent CV body. For an abstract further describing one 
member of this fall see:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2004AGUFM.P31C..02I&db_key=AST
If you are interested in adding some of this very unusual primative 
achondrite to your collection at a reasonable price contact us as we are 
taking pre-orders now and can cut to your specifications.

Also, be sure to contact us while you are in Tucson to make arrangements 
to see some of our other spectacular new meteorites including our new 
Chinese Pallasite, several extremely rare and unique new irons and 
numerous other chondrites and achondrites including our planetary NWA 2373.

Cheers

-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] boy, am I lucky!

[John Birdsell]

Hi Michael...Sorry to burst your bubble, but I think that Tom has 
already laid claim to that rare, one of a kind beauty (see thread 
earlier this week on the "Wow-NEW "Meteorite" from Kenya-Sounds Great!"


Michael L Blood wrote:
Boy, am I ever lucky!
   Look what I just got offered:
--
Dear Sir.
am pleased to write to you about a wonderful stone that seems to have live
in it..the following are its characteristics.
a] it powerfully radiates alot of light.sort of rainbow colours-very
beautiful
b] it disables mobile phones or anything electronic around it.
c] it moves by itself on exposure to sunlight to where there is shade.
d] if there is no shade it digs wanting to bury itself in the sand or soil.
e] its untouchable it paralyses the body or the hands in contact if you near
it or touch it.
f] its so powerful you cannot look at it with your naked eyes.the eyes get
dizzily on wearing gas goggles
g] its the size of a human head-10kg 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Magnetic meteorites

[John Birdsell]

Hi Doug, Steve & allDoug I think you may have really hit on 
something- Refrigerator Meteor-Magnets! Every refrigerator should have  
a coupleYou can etch them and use them to hold up your shopping 
list, chore list, etc.  I think we'll start offering them on ebay in the 
near future! Even better...Tom might be able to etch a picture of Granny 
on the meteorite and we could have etched-granny-meteorite-magnets for 
everyone's refrigerator!

Cheers & thanks for a great idea!
-John

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve, you're fine.  Generally with meteorites the more strongly  magnetic 
the specimen the more iron metal.  There are some many uses of the  word 
magnetic in exactly the way you use it, in the Cambridge Encyclopedia of  Meteorites 
that it sounds like you might be able to give Bob Evans some help on  the 
concept.  Saludos, Doug
PS  I have a meteorite that is a magnet.  It's easy to make them  from most 
magnetic metals like your new meteorite.  Just store it with a  strong magnet 
attached for a while and even just "filing" it can make a magnetic  iron a 
permanent magnet right away.  It'll be weaker thanthe original  magnet, though.  
Mu Toluca got so magnetic it sticks to the  refrigerator door.  I was thinking 
sending a certain person one of these as  a peace offering:)  Other magnetic 
metals in the same sense as iron, are,  nickel, cobalt and gadolinium...the 
actual term is ferromagnetic.  Chromium  and Maganese are actually 
antiferromagnetic.

When someone says "magnetic" they are referring to any kind of magnetic  
property at all, not just the ability to sustain magnetic poles like a permanent  
magnet.  The correct word to describe that is that the material is  
magnetized.  Magnetized means it has the properties of a permanent  magnet/  Magnetic 
means whatever the users wants remotely related to  magnets, the metals they 
attract, of the fields they produce, etc. etc.   Hope this clears it up until the 
next round...
Congrats on the new acquisition!  
Saludos, Doug

En un mensaje con fecha 01/19/2005 5:49:27 PM Mexico Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] escribe:
With all due respect  Steve

You claimed that your new meteorite is very  magnetic.
That's about as annoying as the oriented - orientated  debate.
From what I understand " Magnetic " means having the properties  of a magnet.
Does your new meteorite attract Iron like a magnet?
Probably  not !!
I see this used all of the time, so, am I missing something ?
Is  there some meteorite out there that I've never heard of that can attract  
Iron magnetically?

Thanks
Bob Evans
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Re: [meteorite-list] Wow-NEW "Meteorite" from Kenya-Sounds Great!

[John Birdsell]

Yes Tom, but you had better get on to it- a number of embassies are 
already very interested. I wonder if one could perhaps teach it to do 
household chores & a few simple tricks?

-John
Tom AKA James Knudson wrote:
Even though I am trying to get out of collecting, I think I want this one! I
wonder what he would take for it?
Thanks, Tom
peregrineflier <><
IMCA 6168
http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm
- Original Message -
From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite Mailing List" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 1:17 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wow-NEW "Meteorite" from Kenya-Sounds Great!
 

Just received this URGENT email. If anyone is interested in the
"meteorite" described below I'll forward the seller's contact
information-  ;-)
-John

"Dear Sir,
Am very pleased to write to you this evening about a meteorite on sale
by us in Nairobi Kenya east Africa.the following are its characteristics.
1.it radiates /emits allot of light--rainbow colors
2.it moves by itself on exposure to sunlight to where there is a shade
3..if there is no shade it digs wanting to bury itself in the ground
4.its untouchable it paralyzes the body or the hands in contact/if you
near it or touch it
5.its so powerful you cannot look at it with your naked eyes
6. its the size of a human head--about 10kg.
sir i believe this thing is straight from heaven cos its so wonderful.i
request you with the above characteristics to tell me how much you would
buy it per gram or per kilogram.a number of embassies have shown allot
of interest but the highest binder takes it.
waiting to hear from you,as soon as it can be possible,
for Afrique Jewels
regards,
Philip."
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[meteorite-list] Wow-NEW "Meteorite" from Kenya-Sounds Great!

[John Birdsell]

Just received this URGENT email. If anyone is interested in the 
"meteorite" described below I'll forward the seller's contact 
information-  ;-)

-John

"Dear Sir,
Am very pleased to write to you this evening about a meteorite on sale 
by us in Nairobi Kenya east Africa.the following are its characteristics.

1.it radiates /emits allot of light--rainbow colors
2.it moves by itself on exposure to sunlight to where there is a shade
3..if there is no shade it digs wanting to bury itself in the ground
4.its untouchable it paralyzes the body or the hands in contact/if you 
near it or touch it
5.its so powerful you cannot look at it with your naked eyes
6. its the size of a human head--about 10kg.

sir i believe this thing is straight from heaven cos its so wonderful.i 
request you with the above characteristics to tell me how much you would 
buy it per gram or per kilogram.a number of embassies have shown allot 
of interest but the highest binder takes it.

waiting to hear from you,as soon as it can be possible,
for Afrique Jewels
regards,
Philip."
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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: . . . Things to see near Tucson

[John Birdsell]

Hi  Walter...you've got to check out the SR-71 here in Tucson! It's 
gorgeous! They've also got a superb F-4U Corsair, a beautiful B-24 and 
numerous other amazing aircraft!

-John

Walter Branch wrote:
Hi Geoff,
 

the Saturn 5 booster to Cape Kennedy) and one of two actual B-52s that 
launched the X-15 to the edge of space. Not to mention JFK's private 
plane, a B-17, an immaculate B-29, a family of MIGs and . . . well, 
   

Man, I have got to get out to Tucson one day!
I recently took a trip to the Museum of Aviation at Warner Robbins
Air Force Base in Warner Robbins, Georgia.  I specifically went to
see an actual SR71 Blackbird, all of which no longer fly.  Unfortunately,
the Air Force was having some sort of ceremony in the hanger in which
it is stored and I could not get in.  ARGH!
Want to see the coolest aviation history website?  Check this out:
http://www.museumofaviation.org/home.htm 

Oh, almost forgot "meteorite"
-Walter
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Re: [meteorite-list] Mundrabilla designation question

[John Birdsell]

Hello Martin and List. According to Wasson and  Kallemeyn (2002) 
Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, Vol. 66, No. 13, pp. 2445–2473.

"The members of the Mundrabilla duo, Waterville (1.63) and Mundrabilla 
(1.64), are FeS-rich irons, closely related to each other in structure 
and composition. They are within the sLL scatter field on most diagrams, 
but plot slightly low on the Ga-, Ge-, and W-Au diagrams. Because of 
these discrepancies and their very high FeS contents, we list them as 
ungrouped but they could also be designated anomalous members of the sLL 
subgroup."

Hope this helps!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites


Martin Altmann wrote:
Salü list,
in painting my specimen chits, I ask myself, how to denominate Mundrabilla
correctly.
Old Catalogue has simply "IRANOM", 2000er Grady Catalogue says "IIICD" and
"anomalous",
now with the finer Au-stuff and the subgroups, I read, that Mundrabilla and
Waterville are close to sLL.
Shall I write now IAB-ANOM?
Will the "anomalous" disappear, if the five-of-a-kind-rule for the subgroup
is fullfilled and beside Waterville, three other Mundrabilla-like irons will
habe been found?
Or refers the "anom" to the troilites, silicates or to the smallness of the
taenite crystals (which make etched Mundrabillas to the most beautiful
irons, one can imagine. One of my favourites)?
Thanks!
Martin
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[meteorite-list] Exqusite New Iron -Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone! We have just listed an exqusite, full slice of an 
extremely rare new North African Iron on ebay. You can take a look at 
the following link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6505705347&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:US:1
Enjoy!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Mars Rover Discovers A Potential Meteorite

[John Birdsell]

Hello Jeff, Ron and all. I don't know-I'm still not convinced that the 
object found on Mars is a meteorite.  Check out this link to a fabulous 
meteor wrong that looks remarbably similar to the object found on Mars :

http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/AZ_Skies_Links/Meteor_Wrong/index.html
We sure hope that we are wrong about this!
Cheers
-John
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Jeff Grossman wrote:
I don't know if this thing is a real meteorite, but check out these 
two images.  I think they are about the same size, both found in cold 
deserts.

Heat Shield Rock, Mars:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/346/1P158910593EFF40DPP2593L7M1.JPG 

Derrick Peak Iron, Antarctica:
http://www.racine.ra.it/planet/testi/Foto/dpeak.htm
Incredibly similar.
Jeff
At 04:24 PM 1/14/2005, Ron Baalke wrote:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6883
Mars rover discovers a potential meteorite
Kelly Young
New Scientist
January 14, 2005
NASA's rover Opportunity has spotted an unusual rock on Mars that may be
a meteorite.
The rover first glimpsed the rock two weeks ago as it approached the
remains of its heat shield, which plummeted to Mars during the rover's
descent through the atmosphere in January 2004.
The object, about the size of a potato, caught the eyes of ground
controllers because of its unusual pitted surface. "We've been seeing
little rocks on the plain since the start of the mission," says Steven
Squyres at Cornell University, the Mars rovers' chief scientist. "We all
just kind of assumed they're little pieces of Martian basalt."
But Opportunity's infrared spectrometer, called Mini-TES, saw that this
object did not radiate thermal energy at the frequencies expected of
"typical" Martian rocks, leading scientists to hypothesise that the
object might in fact be a meteorite rich in metal.
Opportunity has stayed next to the object and will continue making
measurements over the weekend to confirm whether this is indeed a
meteorite. Squyres says they should have the results by Monday or
Tuesday. "It could be any number of things if somehow we got faked out
by the Mini-TES data," Squyres cautions.
Unexpected circumstances
Meteorites are objects that survive the - sometimes fiery - fall to a
planet's surface from space. Only about 2% of the meteorites that land
on Earth are made of nickel and iron. The rest are made of rock.
Squyres says that the rover's rock abrasion tool, which is used to grind
away the surface of rocks, had never been tested against a metal like
nickel. "I didn't see this coming," he told New Scientist.
Opportunity will celebrate its first birthday on the Martian surface on
25 January. So far, it has trekked over 2000 metres around Meridiani
Planum and recently weathered its first dust storm.
Opportunity's twin rover, Spirit, has been roaming around the other side
of the planet on an area called Husband Hill, but it has had trouble
getting around because its wheels have been slipping on the sandy,
sloped surface. Ground controllers have also been monitoring a
fist-sized rock which has become stuck in the wall of Spirit's wheel.
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Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman   phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey  fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA
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[meteorite-list] Etch Pattern of New Chinese Pallasite -Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone. We've been wondering what if any Windmanstatten our new 
Chinese pallasite would have, but up until now, have not had time to  
check it out.  We have finally started getting caught up following the 
holidays and have etched several pieces.  It has a very cool etch 
reminescent of Toluca. If you are interested in seeing some examples 
they can be found at the following link:

http://search.ebay.com/china-pallasite_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8
Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] Announcing NEW Iron Meteorite w/ extremely unusual etch pattern-Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello all. We are very pleased to announce a truly amazing new iron
meteorite. A single mass of 1650g was found in 2004 in the western
sahara. This iron had a very unusual appearance and when we cut a sample
for analysis we were amazed by the bizarre etch pattern. It has a 
micro-etch pattern consisting of thousands of tiny,
brilliant individual crystals which shimmer like tiny diamonds in the
light.  It has a nickel content of 11.8% and a high gold content.  To
check out this exquisite new desert iron go to our website and click on
the NWA 2428 link-it is definitely worth a look!

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] GREAT NEWS FOR COLLECTORS & DEALERS ALIKE!

[John Birdsell]

Hi everyone! Some of you may already be aware of this, but the US postal 
service has a recently introduced a new service by which you can mail an 
item of any weight for a flat rate of $7.70 to anywhere in the US via 
priority mail! For dealers and collectors alike this is fantastic news! 
You can fit a 45+ pound meteorite into this new flat rate box and ship 
it to New York from the west coast for just $7.70 via priority mail! The 
old rate would have been $80 or more!  Take advantage of this service 
while it lasts!

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

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Re: [meteorite-list] gmail warning

[John Birdsell]

For those of you so interested in saving a buck, here is something to 
read BEFORE you sign up for "Free" gmail.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/03/google_mail_is_evil_privacy/
-John

Darren Garrison wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:29:28 -0700, "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

If someone wants GMAIL account, let them find it themselves. I have a pile 
of free pet food samples to give away. Want some?
   

Do your free pet food samples provide you with one gigabyte of free on-line 
storage (suitable for
file swapping) and is available by invitation only?  If so, I'll take some of 
those wonderous
magical pet food samples.
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Re: [meteorite-list] gmails

[John Birdsell]

Probably Not, but for a nominal fee you can get 2 MB of email storage 
from other reliable vendors and not have Google reading through your 
emails, storing the content and selling the information to third parties. 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/03/google_mail_is_evil_privacy/

-John

Darren Garrison wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:29:28 -0700, "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

If someone wants GMAIL account, let them find it themselves. I have a pile 
of free pet food samples to give away. Want some?
   

Do your free pet food samples provide you with one gigabyte of free on-line 
storage (suitable for
file swapping) and is available by invitation only?  If so, I'll take some of 
those wonderous
magical pet food samples.
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Re: [meteorite-list] gmails

[John Birdsell]

It is really beyond me why anyone would be trying to pawn off "Free" 
Gmail accounts on behalf of Google. First of all nothing is "Free".  If 
someone tells you otherwise they are lying.  Secondly, why would anyone 
waste their time trying to promote Google unless they were a Google 
employee and were paid to do so? I wouldn't! Thirdly, as Mike pointed 
out,  this is a meteorite list and not a forum for promoting Google 
freebies. Finally, if anyone bothers to take the time to perform even a 
perfunctory search on Gmail you will find numerous reasons Not to sign 
up for a "Gmail" account. Stop and ask yourself why Google would be 
offering this service for "free". For instance:

http://forums.techguy.org/t219388.html
-John

Michael Farmer wrote:
What the hell are you talking about? I am not an AOL user.
I am sick of reading about stupid free email accounts. This is a 
meteorite list.
If someone wants GMAIL account, let them find it themselves. I have a 
pile of free pet food samples to give away. Want some?
Michael Farmer

- Original Message - From: "J. Hirschmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] gmails

Mike, I have also some to give away, you as a aol user stay in the aol
worldHa, never mind.
Joachim
and anyway, YOU might not want to, but there are others  who had asked
me to advise when I had more.
Just delete Mike, just delete.
---Original Message---
From: Michael Farmer
Date: 01/05/05 17:03:25
To: Dave Harris; metlist
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] gmails
Why do you people keep advertising that crap.
everyone here seems to have an email account, so please, I don't want
to
hear about GMAIL again.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message -
From: "Dave Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "metlist" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:01 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] gmails

Hi,
I suspect that you are probably all gmailed out but... I have another
4

gmail accts to give away!
1st come &c.

best!
dave
Sec.BIMS
IMCA #0092
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Re: [meteorite-list] Look Here ! Best Chondrules I have seen .

[John Birdsell]

Hi Steve and thanks for posting that oneIt's GORGEOUS!!! What is it?
-John

Steven Drummond wrote:
Hi List,
   I forgot to put the weight of this slice , it is 2.15  
grams .  Slice is 1 1/4 " by 7/8 " . The link... 
http://www.strufe.net/IMG_0317.jpg
  Regards, Steven





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Re: [meteorite-list] More NEW Chinese Pallasites! - TKW????

[John Birdsell]

Hello Bernhard and Mike.  Yes, that is correct, there is a large mass 
that is estimate to weigh about 1500 kg +/- 300 kg. Unfortunately, it is 
unlikely that this mass will be leaving China any time soon, and it may 
never be available. We do have some small pieces from this mass which we 
are making available in the form of slices, end-cuts and intact pieces, 
so if you are interested in adding a really nice new pallasite you can 
wait and see whether any more the 1500kg piece ever becomes available or 
you can get a piece now for sure.


Cheers
-John & Dawn


Michael Farmer wrote:
A whopping ~1,500 kilos! Yes, this is the largest pallasite in the world.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - From: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'John Birdsell'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 

Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] More NEW Chinese Pallasites! - TKW


BTW, what's the TKW of this Pallasite? You don't mention it on ebay...
Bernhard
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
Birdsell
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:13 PM
To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] More NEW Chinese Pallasites! -Ad
Hello everyone and Happy New Year! All but one of our new Chinese
Pallasite specimens that we listed on ebay have sold. For those of you
that missed the opportunity to add one of these lovely new pallasites to
your collection, we have listed several more specimen on ebay. We are
also taking requests if there is a  particular size, shape or cut that
you're looking for just let us know and do our best to provide if for
you. Even if you're not currently in the market for a new pallasite,
take a look.
http://search.ebay.com/china-pallasite_W0QQfromZR40QQsojsZ1

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] More NEW Chinese Pallasites! -Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone and Happy New Year! All but one of our new Chinese 
Pallasite specimens that we listed on ebay have sold. For those of you 
that missed the opportunity to add one of these lovely new pallasites to 
your collection, we have listed several more specimen on ebay. We are 
also taking requests if there is a  particular size, shape or cut that 
you're looking for just let us know and do our best to provide if for 
you. Even if you're not currently in the market for a new pallasite, 
take a look.

http://search.ebay.com/china-pallasite_W0QQfromZR40QQsojsZ1

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] How to help Tsunami Victims

[John Birdsell]

Hello Pierre and Bernhard. Actually most of the reputable aid 
organizations allow you to make donations to the Tsunami releif effort 
directly online using you credit card.  This would be a much more 
effective way to help as there would not be any deduction in paypal fees 
and you can choose your favorite organization.

For a list of organizations giving aid to the Tsunami victims click on 
the link below:

http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/international/earthquake/tsunami122604.aspx
It is a good idea to check out how much of your donation will actually 
be used to help victims. For example, 'Save the Children.org' uses 90% 
of donations to help victims.  Some organizations use ~ 85% and some 
probably less.  Now is a great time to help out the vicitms of this 
devastating natural disaster.

Happy New Years all!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Pelé Pierre-Marie wrote:
Hello Bernhard,
In fact, I didn't think of it when I wrote my email.
Usually, Paypal takes a fee on every payment received.
(that's how they earn money... mainly)
So, I've written to Paypal to ask for them if they
accept to not collecting this fee for each payment
sent. I hope to have a positive answer as soon as
possible.
Pierre
--- Bernhard Rems <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : 
 

Does paypal stay away from collecting fees fort he
donations?
Bernhard
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Pelé
Pierre-Marie
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:33 PM
To: MeteoriteList
Subject: [meteorite-list] ** Call to the Meteorite
Community for helpingAsia
**
Hello to the List.
New Year is ordinary a time of enjoyment but this
year
was an awful tsunami in Asia.
Because I think we can get much money from the
Meteorite Community, I'm opening a financial support
on my Paypal account.
You can send money on my Paypal account
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) in euros or dollars and in 15
days I'll give this money to the french association
Medecins sans frontiere (a big independant medical
aid
agency) for helping asian countries.
I ask you to write in Paypal "HELP FOR ASIA" as
statement. Regularly, I'll tell you total amount
collected on this account.
DATE LIMIT : 15 JANUARY 2005
PAYPAL ACCOUNT : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I thank you in advance for your help. That's the way
I've found for collecting a large amount of money
because together we can make surely more that
individually.
Pierre-Marie PELE
www.meteor-center.com

	
		
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[meteorite-list] NEWLY DISCOVERED CHINESE PALLASITE FINALLY AVAILABLE!!! Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello Everyone! We hope you all had a wonderful holiday. We are please 
to announce that we have finally finished preparing a number of our 
specimens of gorgeous new Pallasite from China. This pallasite has 
amazing, large orange olivine crystals and appears to be very stable 
along the lines of Imilac, Esquel or Glorieta Mountain.  Our specimens 
have been polished to a mirror-like finish, and are even more gorgeous 
than the photos reveal.  To see our available specimens click the 
following link:

http://stores.ebay.com/Arizona-Skies-Meteorites
We also have a number of beautiful Al Mahbas pallasite specimens still 
available on our website, and we will be announcing several more very 
interesting new meteorites shortly.

Cheers & Happy New Year!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] If I was not so poor!

[John Birdsell]

Tom...If I were you, I'd save my money up and get a "NEW" one. 

;-)
-John

Tom AKA James Knudson wrote:
Boy, I wish I could get this one!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2294923999&;
rd=1
Thanks, Tom
peregrineflier <><
IMCA 6168
http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm
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[meteorite-list] Over $20, 000 of Meteorites Listed on Ebay Now!!! Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone...we have over $20,000 worth of gorgeous meteorites 
listed on ebay. Many of these would make fantastic Christmas Gifts. The 
listings include planetary meteorites, 4 types of pallasite, 
achondrites, and numerous irons including a huge 520g Henbury full 
slice!  To view these simply click on the following link:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZarizonaQ5fskiesQ5fmeteoritesQ5fpowerQ5fsellersQQsorecordsperpageZ50QQsosortpropertyZ1

Thanks for looking!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] Last 5 Slices of NEW IIICD IRON NWA 2677 posted!!! Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hi everyone! Well we finally managed to get the last five slices of the 
new IIICD NWA 2677 posted on the website. It took a bit longer than we 
had hoped, but they're up. They have a beautiful etch and a nickel 
content of 12.8%.  These are the last five slices that will be available 
for sale to the public, so take a look at the photos and if you're 
planning on picking up a full slice of this lovely new iron now is the 
time to do so.

Take care!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] John's Interesting Iron Meteorite, NWA 2677

[John Birdsell]

Hi Mark and List. Thanks for posting your photo of our new IIICD (IAB 
sLM). Actually, I think that it would plot within the old IIIC grouping 
which Wasson & Kallemyne (2000) have now placed in the IAB iron complex, 
subgroup LM. The 'L' stands for Low Au content and the 'M' stands for 
'medium' nickel content. In this meteorite, the nickel content is 12.8%. 
If anyone would like to read about the new IAB groupings, the reference is:

Wasson, J.T. and Lakkemeyn, G. W.
"IAB iron-meteorite complex: A group, five subgroups, numerous 
grouplets, closely related, mainly formed by crrystal segregation in 
rapidly cooling melts."
Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, Vol. 66, No. 13, pp. 2445-2473, 2002

If you can not find this reference anywhere, just email us and we'll 
send you a pdf.

We will put up our last few slices of this lovely new IIICD this afternoon.
Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

MARK BOSTICK wrote:
Hello John and list,
I recently picked up a small piece of NWA 2677 from John Birdsell. An 
interesting iron meteorite of 100g. It has been provisionally 
classified as a ?IICD (aka: IAB subclass LM).? noted from John? 
website. I am not really an iron expert, but I guess that means fine 
octahedrite. The meteorite itself is somewhat confusing, as the nickel 
content doesn? seen to line up well with any of the IIICD? except the 
Ataxites I suppose, but this has a obvious bold octahedrite pattern.

I managed a pretty good photo of my slice on my collection page. (I 
now have studio lights and equipment...which also of course means, my 
camera is giving me problems now...:-(

http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colnwa2677.html
Also, John asked about possible pairs. Doing a little research on the 
iron I have found the following meteorite classified somewhat close 
and location of find possibly close. Could this be a possible pair?

Hassi-Jekna, IIICD, found El Golea, Algeria in 1890, TKW 1890, 
Bandwidth .47mm.

Clear Skies,
Mark Bostick
www.meteoritearticles.com
www.kansasmeteoritesociety.com
www.imca.cc
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[meteorite-list] NEWLY Classified Ureilite Available! NWA 2376! Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone! We finally got the new Ureilite up on the website! 
Thanks for your patience-we know a number of you have been waiting on 
us. It's number is NWA 2376 and it is quite beautiful. We also have 
added several new slices of the gorgeous Cumulate eucrite NWA 2362 as 
well as some very showy, full slices of the polymict eucrite NWA 2366! 
There is not much more of NWA 2362 left, so if you're interested in 
adding a very nice Cumulate eucrite to your collection let us know so we 
can reserve one for you.  We have sold out of the New IIICD Iron slices 
that we posted, and we only have about 4-5 more slice available (TKW 
only 100g). We need to get an accurate weight for these last few slices 
and hopefully will have them up by this evening. This is one of the most 
attractive little irons that you will see, and it may be the first IIICD 
to come out of North West Africa (can someone please let us know if they 
know of another IIICD). 

Anyway...we'll let you know as soon as we get the last few slices of 
this lovely little iron posted.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to Everyone!!!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] LARGE GIBEON METEORITE WANTED

[John Birdsell]

Hello everone! We are looking for a large Gibeon meteorite in the 
50-100kg size range. If anyone knows of one that is available please 
contact us off list.

Thanks in advance!
-John & Dawn

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[meteorite-list] More Al Mahbas Pallasites & New Photos Added-Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyoneWe have added several more specimens of the extremely 
rare Al Mahbas pallasite to our website along with new photos of the 
previous specimens. These specimens range from around 3 up to over 6 
grams and are loaded with gorgeous olivine crystals. The interesting 
thing about this pallasite is the tiny size of many of the olivine 
crystals, which makes it look like a miniture version of a normal 
pallasite-quite unusual.  Time permitting, we will hopefully be adding a 
new Ureilite tomorrow, so please check back.  Also don't miss out on the 
beautiful new IIICD Iron NWA 2677.

Cheers

-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] NEW Saharan Pallasite Update!!! Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone.  As we promised last week, we have now updated our 
website with our new NWA Pallasite. There is not a lot of this material 
to go around, so if you're contemplating on adding a rare new desert 
pallasite to your collection we would do do sooner rather than later. We 
have also just added quite a few more DAG 476 shergottite specimens, and 
will be adding other new meteorites today and this coming week, so check 
back frequently for updates.

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about oriented meteorites

[John Birdsell]

Hello allI would have thought that Bob and Mike were right on this, 
but I was surprised to find the word "orientated" in Webster's New 
Unabridged Dictionary, being defined as being synonymous with "oriented".

Cheers
-John
Michael Farmer wrote:
Robert, there is no such word as orientated. I have seen it too, never 
knew where people got that word from.
Mike
- Original Message - From: "Robert Woolard" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:02 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question about oriented meteorites


Hello List and Mike,
   Mike just posted this a short while ago:
   *
 " Subject: Oriented meteorite listed now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2291946404
 Here it is, just loaded.
   Mike  "

 First of all.. WOW!! Awesome specimen, Mike!
 Secondly, this is a good time to ask a question that
I've wondered about now and then. I, too would have
used the exact word " oriented " to describe this
stone, and I know that is correct. But I often see
other list members using the term "orientated" (with
an extra "-at-"in the word). So my question is: Are
both terms proper, or is "oriented" the ONLY correct
term to use to describe such a meteorite as this?
 Thanks for any help with this question,
 Robert Woolard



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Re: [meteorite-list] call me a naughty boy

[John Birdsell]

Hi Steve and congratulations on your new digital Camera! Can I have the 
old one that you received last year for Christmas (it would fit nicely 
into my Christmas stocking and make me really happy too!).

Thanks!
-John
Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote:
I just found out that I am getting a samsung 4 megapixel digital camera
for christmas.I guess santa will give me coal for christmas for being a
naughty boy for peeking.Hell, digital pictures are right around the
bend.HE---HW!!
 A NAUGHTY BOY!!
=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/





		
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Re: [meteorite-list] Morocco new fall news.

[John Birdsell]

Hello Mike and Welcome home! Dawn and I are both releived to hear that 
you made it back safely. No meteorite is worth taking that kind of 
risk!  One may get lucky once or twice, but by tempting fate like that, 
fate will eventually catch up with you.  Sounds as though the military 
is probably staking out that area and sending regular patrols to try to 
catch the meteorite hunters.  Anyone that takes you up on your offer is 
totally
nuts!

Take care
-John & Dawn

Michael Farmer wrote:
Hello everyone, I have just arrived back in Tucson after one of the 
most difficult and dangerous trips I have ever done.

I was in Morocco for the last week to investigate the new fall and a 
new Pallasite. Everything that could have gone wrong on this trip, 
did, so I left Morocco very quickly and returned home.

I will make a very long story short but it should serve as a warning 
to all.

I got some of the new Pallasite last month in Morocco, and planned a 
trip to go to the site of the meteorite find. It is in Western Sahara, 
right on the Algeria/Morocco/Mauritania borders. This is the same 
Pallasite that John Birdsell has some of.
I was assured that it was no problem to go to the area, but when I got 
to Assa, we changed into a very old military vehicle, this is when I 
should have realized that something was wrong.
When we got to Zag, we detoured off road for about 20 kilometers to 
avoid the town and police/military checkpoints.
The meteorite is 30 kilometers south and east of Al Mahbas Western 
Sahara, and when we got about 20 kilometers from the area, we went 
off-road. That is when the Moroccans told me that this was a 
military-only, prohibited zone, and that we were not allowed there! I 
of course got a little concerned (especially when we saw several 
mine-fields. We were driving cross-country at night with no lights, 
only by full moonlight, (not a safe thing in an old war zone where 
mine-fields are still around).
The next morning we arrived at the tent of the nomad who found the 
pallasite. He led us there, over the berm and military fighting 
emplacements to the site, Algeria was only about 2 kilometers away.
The place is a small area about 10 meters across, many pieces, mostly 
shale fragments full of olivine crystals, and some small individuals. 
I searched it for about an hour and found many pieces, and one of the 
other Moroccans found a piece about 80 grams, just metal, no crystals. 
We had planned a careful search, but one of the Moroccans spotted a 
military patrol coming so we packed up quickly and fled. It is very 
flat there, nowhere to hide. They chased us for about 2 hours but we 
were too far ahead and they could not catch up, but it was close 
enough for me. An American with Metal-detectors, GPS,s, video cameras, 
and Satellite phones, is not welcome in a closed military zone.  I had 
to hide as much as possible, dressed like a Moroccan, under blankets, 
until we left Western Sahara and got back to Assa.
It was not a fun trip, and when we got to Assa, the hotel owner found 
out we had been in Al Mahbas and called the local military colonel, 
who promptly arrived to find out why we were in a prohibited area, and 
demanded a large bribe to allow us to avoid some very serious 
problems. The bribe was paid needless to say, but they had my 
information and copy of my passport from the hotel.
I immediately demanded to get back to civilization and get the hell 
out of the country, which I did.
I will give everyone the coordinates of the Pallasite, and anyone with 
the cajones to go there can be my guest. I have been around the world 
many times, and to worse places than this, but there is nothing that 
will put the fear of god in you like driving as fast as the vehicle 
will go for hours with military chasing you through mine-fields!
This business can get dangerous as I just found out.

On the second note, we also dealt with the new fall there, and it is a 
total disaster. I did not bother to go to the site, as all of my guys 
were there and none of them got any of the meteorite, and the people 
who had it offered it to them for $6 to $10 gram! I think that is 
absolutely ludicrous and anyone who pays that will seriously regret it 
as I expect it will be $1.00 gram soon enough, like Amgala and 
Bensour, the price will spike at the beginning, and collapse when more 
and more comes out.
There is a lot of it, many kilos and it will be available. I had other 
problems to deal with there and the new fall was the least on my list.
There is a lot more to this entire story, but this is the gist of it.
For me, the Moroccans have become far to untrustworthy lately and I am 
likley done with that mess over there.
Michael Farmer

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[meteorite-list] TWO NEW PALLASITES AVAILABLE! FROM CHINA, & SAHARA!!!-Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello Meteorite List members. We are very please to announce that we 
have not one, but two new, previously unclassified Pallasites available. 
One is from the Sahara and the other is from China. If you are 
interested please feel free to contact us off list for more 
information.  We will be posting both in the coming weeks.  We will also 
be announcing several other very exciting new meteorites in the coming 
weeks, so stay tuned...

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

[John Birdsell]

Hi EveryoneWe just wanted to wish everyone a happy thanksgiving and 
a safe Holiday! Special thanks to Michael Blood for sharing his 
thanksgiving parrot joke   ;-)

Cheers
-John & Dawn

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Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's, "Dealers", Science, & NomCom

[John Birdsell]

Hi Doug and thanks for the interesting idea. I suppose that could work 
if every dealer kept perfect records of every piece, slice, part slice, 
and part, part slice that they ever bought or sold.  The question then 
would be, who would be the "Meteorite Auditors" to track down the few 
offending dealers that may decide to "fake" a meteorite ID number, say 
NWA 123,9,25,3,2 and track it through all the hands that is has passed 
and sub-divisions that it has been cut into to "verify" that it is 
really NWA 123,9,25,3,2?  What happens if someone along the chain of 
custody accidentally transposed the 3 and the 2 in the ID number, and 
this got passed down the line? Some end recipient could then be accused 
by the Meteorite Auditors of "faking" the piece after an audit exposed 
the problem.  Who is going to spend their time trying to resolve this 
inevitable issues? I can just see our friends on the Meteorite-List 
bickering over whether they have proper claim to NWA 123,9,25, 3,2 or 
NWA 123,9,25,2,3! 

Cheers
-John


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello John, Larry, Mike, Michael, List,
I want to respond to John's point of view on Mike's dramatic suggestion that we acquire 
NWA's only from "the dealer" that classified it.
Mike - good post.  My only wincing is that "the dealer" doesn't classify it.  A 
Met Soc approved researcher does mi cuate.  I know you know that but it won't hurt to 
remind you, I think, with my respects, as always to you for a bang-up job.  I am in 
agreement with the spirit of your post and with that of John's with has me thinking you 
are both way too right, extreme and impractical.  What you have done IMHO is make a 
perfect combined argument to get all the dealers off their alleged lazy and greedy duffs 
to do the right thing.
John - Your post was good as usual, but more jaded than I am accustomed to coming from 
you.  This "Trust" argument alternative holds no water personally since folks 
like me and I assume like Larry are not interested in doing credit and background checks 
on dealers.  And without folks like me and I assume like Larry all you dealers will be 
soon stuck in a pyramid scheme with each other on Meteorite pricing which everyone's 
free-for-all neglect of scientific protocol has created and sales have happily fomented.
So Listen, please and stop blaming the "nomads gangs" (wow that was a laugher) 
or Habibi or Hupe or whoever and distancing yourselves - this is a collective problem, 
period.
John, other than the "trust" monopoly exclusive club smelling thing you 
suggest, I think you have not added your usual eye-opening value to Mike's post.  The 
answer [I think] here is to add the stone and fragment numbers to conserve the 
classification process.  Like NWA 6000, 2, 4 {...}.  And keep a copy of the original 
classification card.  In this hypothetical exaple case, the NWA 6000 stone #2 slice 4.  I 
stole the idea from Dr. Grossman and NASA curators.  It works.  Then if you cut the slice 
in half and give your partner the second half, she has NWA 6000,2,4,2.  Don't make this 
confusing.  sheesh, it is just adding a number and only when necessary to your little 
piece of heaven, not cataloging the entire stone.
Larry, let me give you the reason I think no one has done this.  It isn't some far flung 
idea - there is a great scientific precedent now and for years.  My opinion is that 
"meteorite dealers" just don't want to deal with the paperwork.  What a 
PATHETIC excuse of theirs.  They know enough to know who they bought the piece from and 
how much they sold it to you for.  And the tax authority probably requires it anyway, 
too, but let's let the tax authority police them on that.  The other half is that they 
don't want you to know where they got it from.  Another pathetic excuse to sacrifice the 
science you buy for their blindly greedy benefits.
The elementary school library has the Dewey Decimal system, what a great model, 
and first graders can handle it, but not us.  Ho Hum.  I bet a German cat could 
handle it.  It is the same no-brainer thing.
So no one is asking from John for his new esquisite Sahara iron these numbers, and he won't send them to you 
(or will he:)).  So let's not just blame the "dealers", but take our ownership as well.  No more 
"I don't know what to do, it's a meteorite jungle out there."  Just a courteous question to the 
dealer.  "Can you tell me the fragment number I am buying?"  If they squeal on that one you know 
you are dealing with a pig.  If they are honest you're not buying a pig in a poke.
"Dealers", well now that I'm in boiling water, how is this: We are not 
interested in your name or your competitors original card.  It should just be the MetSoc 
approved researcher's card.  OK scientists, taxonomists, Jeff and committe members.  Here 
is your chance to shine...can you suggest a simple card filled out by the researcher when 
classifying all specimens of a #?.  No dealers need apply.   How handsome my collection 
of 50 meteoriti

Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's

[John Birdsell]

Hi Larry, Mike and list. Yes, at first this sounds like good advice, 
however this can lead to numerous problems as well. For instance I 
obtained a beautiful large chunk of NWA 482 in a trade with you Mike, 
and I know that numerous other dealers also have NWA 482 for sale. If we 
were only to purchase from the dealer who had the meteorite classified 
then this would pretty much eliminate such trades as all such traded 
pieces would become worthless. Another example is Dhofar 019. There must 
be 20 dealers all legitimacy selling this shergottite, which they 
themselves purchased wholesale. Now if everyone were only to buy from 
the individual that had Dhofar 019 classified (Serge), then Serge would 
be stuck with around a kilo of Martian rock with no market for it except 
for the retail market. He would be relegated to selling off 200 mg here 
and 300 mg there for the next forty years. This would make the 
acquisition of large, rare rocks retarded unless someone wanted to spend 
40 years recouping their initial investment.  The same can be said for 
hundreds of other meteorites.  This also screws the collector who may 
want to sell one of his expensive meteorites to buy something else. If 
everyone only purchases from the person that originally had the 
meteorite classified then the resale value of these meteorites would be 
zero. I don't think that the collectors are going to appreciate paying 
top dollar for some expensive planetary meteorite and then being told 
that "Oh yeah, by the way don't try to sell that expensive meteorite 
that we just sold you because you are not the one that had it classified 
and no one will buy it from you."  This would really piss me off if I 
were the collector that had spent my hard earned money on an expensive 
and rare meteorite specimen. The best thing for dealers to do is to get 
their meteorites classified by a legitimate research institution, and to 
use their own numbers. If they want, they can say "my NWA XXX is 
probably paired to NWA YYY" or "my NWA is paired to NWA ZZZ" depending 
upon the provisional or final classification respectively.  For those 
buyers that want to be sure they are getting properly classified and 
named specimens, they should keep track of which dealers do follow the 
Nom. Com. guidelines and avoid those that do not. Fortunately the 
overwhelming majority of dealers are honest and play by the rules. 
Unfortunately, there is a lot of BS being put on the meteorite-list by 
certain meteorite dealers of the "my meteorite is better than yours" 
sort. Don't be fooled by this non-sense either-it is just a transparent 
attempt at self promotion. There are a lot of very reputable meteorite 
dealers out there that do not engage in these types of sales tactics, 
and I would prefer to support these honest, reputable dealers.

Cheers
-John
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com



Michael Farmer wrote:
Larry, this is the problem I was getting at.
I will tell you the simple solution, buy the meteorite from the dealer 
who had it classified, then there can be no error.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - From: "Larry Harrison" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:54 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA's


Greetings List,
I am but a small time collector (>200 specimens). However, I cherish 
my small example of the evolution of the solar system. I am also an 
astronomy educator. I always include meteorites in my lectors AND I 
am always asked "how do you know if it is really a meteorite? My 
answer: Irons are simple to recognize, and I explain the 
widmanstatten figure and how it forms. Stones on the other hand 
require analysis especially when chondrules (I explain chondrules) 
are not easily visible. In those cases it is very important to know 
your source. I have always made it clear that I only deal with 
reputable dealers.

The posts of late have put a very large question in my mind about who 
is reputable. The saddest part is that many reputable dealers are 
being scamed by the Nomads. I prefer to collect the rarest of the 
rare. And this is where most of the scams are being made.  My 
absolute certainty of the authenticity of my collection is now in 
question! I do not question that any piece in my collection is or 
isn't a meteorite, but that it is not the specimen type that I think 
it is. I have always been more than excited about the immense number 
of new and rare meteorites coming out of the Sahara. If not for these 
finds I could never afford as many representations of the early solar 
system or of the achondrites of lessor differentiated bodies. I am 
crushed, uncertain and totally confused! What to do? Since I am not a 
big time buyer, my reluctance to purchase further NWA's will not hurt 
any of you. However, I feel that I am Mr. Average. If this mess curbs 
my desire to purchase more meteorites, I assure you it is doing the 
same to many more. This is the saddest mome

[meteorite-list] Ad: New IIICD Iron Meteorite Available!

[John Birdsell]

Hello Everyone! We are happy to announce a NEW Saharan Iron-NWA 2677 
(prov.)! This exceptional little iron is a new, and particularily 
beautiful iron from the Saharan desert. It has been provisionally 
classified as a IIICD (it appears to group closely to the IAB subclass 
LM). Classification data will be submitted to the Nom. Com. shortly. 
Saharan irons are rare and this one is particularly rare with a total 
known weight prior to cutting of just 100 grams. After accounting for 
the 21 grams being donated to Science as type specimens and cutting 
losses, there are only about 60-65 grams available for collectors. This 
lovely little iron has moderately high nickel content of 12.8% and is 
quite stable. It has a very attractive etch! Please feel free to check 
out the photos!

-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Enjoy this beauty

[John Birdsell]

Bernhard-Congratulations! That is a Gorgeous piece! Well worth a look 
for those that haven't yet!

-John
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Bernhard Rems wrote:
http://www.meteoritegallery.com/gallery/viennametcoll/757_dho_535_1
My latest acquisition - I just LOVE ungrouped meteorites :-).
Bernhard
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Re: [meteorite-list] My Eyes Are Glazing Over- Need "Scorecard"

[John Birdsell]

Hi PaulThere is an easily usable seach engine for the lists archives 
located at the bottom of the Meteorite-List archives.  
(http://www.meteoritecentral.com/archives.shtml) If, when you click on 
the email of interest it says "Not found" just click on "cashed" and you 
be able to read even the old email posts to the list.

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
Paul H wrote:
It is hard to search back through 
the innumerable posts, given the lack of a search 
engine specifically for the archives, to find out the 
details behind each specific number is being talked 
about...


Yours,
Paul
Baton Rouge, LA

		
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Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...

[John Birdsell]

Adam...I don't think there is any argument. We simple pointed out that 
you mis-spoke when you told Rob that every one of your shergottite 
pieces had been micro-probed. I the interests of the collectors I think 
that honesty is the best policy, and I'm sure that you agree.

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
Adam Hupe wrote:
Why is there an argument in regards to material that has been NomCom
approved?  The problem is pseudo-dealers thinking they know more than
scientists.  If we start questioning scientist, who have been very patient
thus far with the collecting community, where will this leave us?
Think about it,
Adam
- Original Message - 
From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...

 

AdamI think you meant your pieces were "looked at" by Dr. Irving as
this is what you have told the list repeatedly. You could not possibly
have had every piece microprobed as all the pieces we have seen sold by
you on ebay did not even have a window polished into them.  Further, no
one in their right mind would microprobe each and every little piece of
shergottite that you bought in Morocco. I think we can all move on from
this NWA 1110 thread as it is getting rather old.
We have NWA 2373 which has been provisionally classified as being paired
with NWA 1068, so if anyone is still interested in purchasing a
classified shergottite that has been properly tested and for which a
type specimen has been submitted, please feel free.
Thanks all!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Adam Hupe wrote:
   

Microprobed, read the abstract:
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/nwa1110.html
How else can you get ratios to support a Martian origin?
Adam

- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...


 

Looked at or microprobed?
Bernhard asked, I answered, please see Dr. Grossman's evaluation of
   

"looked
 

at"
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971

- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...


   

Rob,
What are you talking about.  A type specimen for NWA 1110 was submitted
 

to
 

and studied by the University of Washington.  Thin sections were cut,
pieces
were analyzed with a microprobe, specimens were sent out for Isotope
 

work
 

and dating.  NWA 1110 is a well studied set of stones.  Every fragment
 

was
 

cleaned and then looked at by Dr. Irving.  Dr. Irving rejected several
 

of
 

the pebbles that were submitted as being terrestrial otherwise nobody
would
have known the difference.  The NomCom then voted on this group of
 

gravel
 

and made it official.  Dr Irving not only works in a laboratory he is
 

one
 

of
the few scientist who has actually gone on a Team LunarRock expedition
 

to
 

Morocco.  He knows what is going on in and is work is of the highest
standard.
Think about what you are saying,
Adam
- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...


 

Well, easy enough, I don't have any NWA 1110, never did so that
   

answers
 

that.
You hit on trust. Trust is the way every meteorite in history has been
   

sold
 

until the dawn of NWA naming rules. Once again, every L'Aigle, every
   

Gao,
 

every Holbrook and Canyon Diablo.
Burkina Faso has a new fall Lampiayrie, so add that to Gao, Guenie,
   

Bilanga
 

and to have a "high collection area" where pairings rules are not
   

conducted
 

or required. Trust is the very thing I am talking about. I strongly
   

suspect
 

that no non-NWA meteorite in your collection has been tested, if so
   

the
 

ratio is way down. Do things fall through the cracks, yes.   Calcalong
   

Creek
 

is the paramount example, had Bob Haag had a bad day and just weighed
   

and
 

bagged it as Millbillillie then it likely would have been lost. But,
   

by
 

   

and
 

large, the system ain'

Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...

[John Birdsell]

AdamI think you meant your pieces were "looked at" by Dr. Irving as 
this is what you have told the list repeatedly. You could not possibly 
have had every piece microprobed as all the pieces we have seen sold by 
you on ebay did not even have a window polished into them.  Further, no 
one in their right mind would microprobe each and every little piece of 
shergottite that you bought in Morocco. I think we can all move on from 
this NWA 1110 thread as it is getting rather old.

We have NWA 2373 which has been provisionally classified as being paired 
with NWA 1068, so if anyone is still interested in purchasing a 
classified shergottite that has been properly tested and for which a 
type specimen has been submitted, please feel free.

Thanks all!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Adam Hupe wrote:
Microprobed, read the abstract:
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/nwa1110.html
How else can you get ratios to support a Martian origin?
Adam

- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...

 

Looked at or microprobed?
Bernhard asked, I answered, please see Dr. Grossman's evaluation of
   

"looked
 

at"
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971

- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...

   

Rob,
What are you talking about.  A type specimen for NWA 1110 was submitted
 

to
 

and studied by the University of Washington.  Thin sections were cut,
pieces
were analyzed with a microprobe, specimens were sent out for Isotope
 

work
 

and dating.  NWA 1110 is a well studied set of stones.  Every fragment
 

was
 

cleaned and then looked at by Dr. Irving.  Dr. Irving rejected several
 

of
 

the pebbles that were submitted as being terrestrial otherwise nobody
would
have known the difference.  The NomCom then voted on this group of
 

gravel
 

and made it official.  Dr Irving not only works in a laboratory he is
 

one
 

of
the few scientist who has actually gone on a Team LunarRock expedition
 

to
 

Morocco.  He knows what is going on in and is work is of the highest
standard.
Think about what you are saying,
Adam
- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...

 

Well, easy enough, I don't have any NWA 1110, never did so that answers
that.
You hit on trust. Trust is the way every meteorite in history has been
   

sold
 

until the dawn of NWA naming rules. Once again, every L'Aigle, every
   

Gao,
 

every Holbrook and Canyon Diablo.
Burkina Faso has a new fall Lampiayrie, so add that to Gao, Guenie,
   

Bilanga
 

and to have a "high collection area" where pairings rules are not
   

conducted
 

or required. Trust is the very thing I am talking about. I strongly
   

suspect
 

that no non-NWA meteorite in your collection has been tested, if so the
ratio is way down. Do things fall through the cracks, yes.   Calcalong
   

Creek
 

is the paramount example, had Bob Haag had a bad day and just weighed
   

and
 

bagged it as Millbillillie then it likely would have been lost. But, by
   

and
 

large, the system ain't broke so why fix it. Buy from people you trust,
   

like
 

centuries of collectors in the past. I have sold to you more than once,
   

I
 

hope you trust me. I have nothing to hide. I merely offer that this
recent
chest beating is marketing disguised as science, and the scientist just
confirmed it in saying that visual pairings are worthless and of little
scientific importance. NWA 1110 was visually paired, A+B=C, so trust
   

who
 

you
 

will, you still just bought a piece of paper if you bought NWA 1110.
I am following the NomCom rules, I am doing what is asked. That does
   

not
 

mean I endorse it. I am 100% in favor of the scientific advancement in
various fields that type specimens provide...but this is not science,
it's
marketing.
Trust
Point in fact, the only questionable material in my inventory came from
   

the
 

Hupes in the names NWA 1929, NWA 1906, NWA 801, NWA 978, and possibly
   

NWA
 

1836, a claim which I can support with documents sitting right here on
   

my
 

desk and must now sort out at their own litigious request. So trust who
   

you
 

will.
Furthermore, with the publishing of the "who's naughty and who's nice
   

lists"
 

is a customer what bought a large amount of classified NWA 3118 from

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers

[John Birdsell]

Hello Jeff and thanks for your email. I think a repository of high 
quality photos of type specimens would be extremely useful for the 
entire meteorite community.

Cheers
-John

Jeff Grossman wrote:
There are several reasons for this result.  Among these are:
1) Not all scientists are equally skilled at classifying meteorites.
2) Not all samples are representative of the whole.  It used to be 
that a lab would have the entire mass to examine and could see the 
entire structure.  With meteorites in commercial hands, they often 
just get a small chip.  Given that lots of chondrites and achondrites 
are breccias, this can be a problem.
3) Some meteorites are borderline between types.  Many of us try to 
make a decision as to which it is, and two people might come down on 
opposite sides of the line.  If it actually matters, somebody will do 
careful work and publish on the subject.  In most cases the error 
doesn't matter.  Researchers all know that classification errors of 
this sort happen.
4) Nobody has ever standardized the way that brecciated meteorites 
should be described.  Someday this will be fixed.
5) Some areas of meteorite classification are controversial (e.g., the 
use of type 7).

We already have a consortium of labs... it is all of those labs that 
agree to house type specimens and make them available for research 
whenever an important scientific question arises.  We already have a 
network for data sharing... it includes the Meteoritical Bulletin and 
the numerous scientific journals that publish abstracts and 
peer-reviewed research. If there is a need for a repository of photos, 
for example, one could be set up in short order.  Is there?

On the question of pairing... for most meteorites, pairing studies are 
of little scientific interest and not worth taking the time to do.  
Visual pairings are almost worthless. For the important meteorites, 
pairings get worked out in the scientific literature over time.  This 
may be unsettling for some dealers, but that's the way it is.

jeff
At 11:11 AM 11/21/2004, Matt Morgan wrote:
Just to add a note...
There is a fundamental scientific problem of classifying meteorites.
Try sending two pieces of the same meteorite to different labs.  Chances
are you will get different results.
For instance, I have "L5's" that came back as "L4's" and "L6's".
"Regolith" this and "Primitive" that.
I heard the same situation happening for NWA 1929, either howardite OR
eucrite. I understand some of it is "interpretive".
The system itself is flawed.
Ideally, we need an NWA consortium of labs to correct this and have type
specimens on hand.
This SEEMS to be an easy fix, but university politics plays a huge role.
So all you scientists who study NWA's, how about a network for meteorite
"data sharing"?  It will make ALL our lives easier...
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob
Wesel
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 2:38 AM
To: Michael Farmer; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
While I truly believe this practice is ultimately costly to the
collector,
truer words have never been spoken. Thanks Mike:
"Virtually every dealer including myself has been or is guilty of this,
we are in the process of correcting the situation and to start people
MUST immediately comply or this will just spiral downward as we see
tonight."
So, for now, we make it right. We follow the rules and pay out to prove
pairings. We wait longer to get to market and costs go up because repeat
lab
fees and repeat type specimens factor into prices per gram. I don't like
it
one bit but that's what we do. I will be finishing off my "likely
paired"
howardite as such but new specimens are already off to the lab,
specimens I
know are paired.
While I seriously doubt the law has any holding here, the NomCom asks
this
of us. Bottom line, if two folks buy bread from the same baker...they're
eating the same bread. The full weight of this ruling will soon be felt
by
all as we bog down institutions who want to study meteorites with
incessant
pairings, not much grant money in pairings, not much recognition. But
this
is what we do...for now.
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971

- Original Message -
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> To clarify something that is obviously causing some problems in the
> meteorite world right now, I want everyone to know that
> NWA 788, 787, and NWA 482 are numbers that came from rather large or
> meteorites with hundreds of pieces bought during one of my
expeditions.
> The Hupes and many other people have the right to those numbers.
> Now, there are other numbers being widely used without proper title
(as Dr
> Grossman has stated publicly and with finality that people do not

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers

[John Birdsell]

Hi Matt and list. I'm not an expert on the topic, but I think that part 
of the problem may also be that meteorites such as those belonging to 
the HED group are quite heterogeneous. If one sample contains a slightly 
higher diogenite component it may come back as a howardite while a 
sample with a lower diogenite component may come back as a eucrite. I 
would imagine that two samples from the same stone could conceivably 
come back with a different classification. If anyone can comment on this 
and correct me if I'm wrong I would appreciate it!

Cheers
-John
Matt Morgan wrote:
Just to add a note...
There is a fundamental scientific problem of classifying meteorites.
Try sending two pieces of the same meteorite to different labs.  Chances
are you will get different results.
For instance, I have "L5's" that came back as "L4's" and "L6's".
"Regolith" this and "Primitive" that.
I heard the same situation happening for NWA 1929, either howardite OR
eucrite. I understand some of it is "interpretive".
The system itself is flawed. 

Ideally, we need an NWA consortium of labs to correct this and have type
specimens on hand.
This SEEMS to be an easy fix, but university politics plays a huge role.
So all you scientists who study NWA's, how about a network for meteorite
"data sharing"?  It will make ALL our lives easier...
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob
Wesel
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 2:38 AM
To: Michael Farmer; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
While I truly believe this practice is ultimately costly to the
collector, 
truer words have never been spoken. Thanks Mike:

"Virtually every dealer including myself has been or is guilty of this,
we are in the process of correcting the situation and to start people
MUST immediately comply or this will just spiral downward as we see 
tonight."

So, for now, we make it right. We follow the rules and pay out to prove 
pairings. We wait longer to get to market and costs go up because repeat
lab 
fees and repeat type specimens factor into prices per gram. I don't like
it 
one bit but that's what we do. I will be finishing off my "likely
paired" 
howardite as such but new specimens are already off to the lab,
specimens I 
know are paired.
While I seriously doubt the law has any holding here, the NomCom asks
this 
of us. Bottom line, if two folks buy bread from the same baker...they're

eating the same bread. The full weight of this ruling will soon be felt
by 
all as we bog down institutions who want to study meteorites with
incessant 
pairings, not much grant money in pairings, not much recognition. But
this 
is what we do...for now.

Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers

 

To clarify something that is obviously causing some problems in the
meteorite world right now, I want everyone to know that
NWA 788, 787, and NWA 482 are numbers that came from rather large or 
meteorites with hundreds of pieces bought during one of my
   

expeditions.
 

The Hupes and many other people have the right to those numbers.
Now, there are other numbers being widely used without proper title
   

(as Dr 
 

Grossman has stated publicly and with finality that people do not own 
numbers, but numbers are assigned to specific meteorite specimens and
   

must 
 

not be used with other meteorites just because you heard or someone
   

told 
 

you it is the same).
Let's all please stop this practice as it is really hurting our
   

business 
 

and hobby. Virtually every dealer including myself has been or is
   

guilty 
 

of this, we are in the process of correcting the situation and to
   

start 
 

people MUST immediately comply or this will just spiral downward as we
   

see 
 

tonight.
I perused eBay today and it is still rampant with sellers using 
numbers
they seem to have drawn from a hat. So please ask you seller next time
   

you 
 

buy something, how they got that number, who it was assigned to and if
   

not 
 

them, just how they came to call it that.
Mike Farmer
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Re: [meteorite-list] OT: blank e-mails from LIst

[John Birdsell]

Hello Mike and Tracy.  Remember to always convert you email to "plain 
text" before you send it to the list. The list server will not accept 
html formatted emails and your email will disappear into the ether if 
you send one in a format other than "plain text".

Best wishes
-John

Mike / flattoprocks wrote:
Hello Tracy and list (hopefully). I am not having the same type of 
trouble you are but have been completly unable to post to the list for 
some time. I have tried severl times to get help from the E-mail they 
send once a month, but so far my self help has been unsuccessful. I 
hope this E-mail will hitch a ride to some help for my being able to 
post to the list. Thanks
Mike Miller  //  E-Bay  flattoprocks
Website // www.meteoritefinder.com
- Original Message - From: "tracy latimer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 10:35 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: blank e-mails from LIst


Hi!  This morning, 4 of my pile of meteorite-list e-mails came in 
blank except for the header, all from people I have received mail 
from in the past with no trouble.  I tried to reply to one e-mail, 
and it was bounced back to me from a Yahoo group without making it to 
the main list.  Anyone else having this trouble, or might it be 
Hotmail-related?

Tracy Latimer
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Re: AW: [meteorite-list] meteorite prices

[John Birdsell]

Martinwhen you refer to "stinky" Campos are those like the rusty Old 
Campo that you are trying to sell on your website for $300 per kilo, 
stating that "Despite its impressive Total Known Weight, Campo del Cielo 
isn't offered that often."?  Are these the good "sales" prices that you 
are offering the new collectors?

http://www.meteorite-martin.de/english/iron_en.html
-Just curious.
Cheers
John & Dawn

Bernhard Rems wrote:
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Martin Altmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 04. November 2004 18:58
An: Bernhard Rems; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite prices

And Bernhard, as always, I answer:
For a serious dealer it does not pays off on the long run to praise
stinky
Campos or boring W4 desert H5s like the Star of India.
Experienced collectors don't appreciate such exaggerations and the
beginners
will soon find out
the overstatements.
Meteorite market is not Fish Market.
Martin
You don't get my point, Martin. It's not praising stinky Campos or
"boring" W4 desert H5's (BTW, the attitude that desert H5's are boring
is something I fully reject), it's about transporting the magic of
meteorites in your text, telling people more than just "I sell a Campo".
Give them background information, tell them that Campos tend to rust,
but tell them also the history of this find. Tell them how they can take
care of their pieces, and why even a "stinky Campo" is a piece of
extraterrestrial matter that is something special.
You don't have to exaggerate to sell. You just have to show that you
appreciate what you are selling.
Bernhard
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[meteorite-list] Ad: NWA 2373 Martian Basaltic Shergottite-Update

[John Birdsell]

Hello everone.  Quite a few of you have already added one or more of our 
newly classified martian basaltic shergottites to your collections and 
we would like to thank all of you.  For those of you that have already 
added one, photos of the main mass are now available on the NASA-JPL 
Martian Meteorite website at the following URL: 
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/nwa2373.html.

For those of you that are planning on adding a NWA 2373 to your 
collection we have added several more beautiful pieces to the website 
and have listed several other wonderful specimens on ebay 
(http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZarizonaQ5fskiesQ5fmeteoritesQ5fpowerQ5fsellersQQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1).  
We recommend reserving a specimen sooner rather than later as these are 
selling at a fairly brisk rate.  When you check out our ebay offerings 
be sure to see the Muonionalusta with a huge troilite inclusion that we 
added-it is gorgeous!

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] Ad: Newly Classified Martian Shergottite-Paired w/ NWA 1068

[John Birdsell]

Hello Everyone. We have just added a number of specimens of our newly 
classified basaltic shergottite NWA 2373 to the website. These are 
wonderful specimens that have been professionally prepared to reveal 
their interior petrology.  This basaltic shergottite will probably be 
paired with NWA 1068.  Also, if anyone is interested in seeing a 
gorgeous, huge 2710 gram etched Canyon Diablo quarter cut-check out our 
etched meteorite section.

Enjoy!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] trade offer/NWA 1109 EUCRITE

[John Birdsell]

Hi Steve and thanks for your post. We can't use any NWA 1109 right now, 
but if you don't find anyone looking to trade, we do have a lot of 
gorgeous Esquel slices of all sizes as well as some wonderful crusted 
Amgala (we'll make you a nice deal).  If you don't see what you're 
looking for on our website just ask as we have quite a nice selection 
that is not listed.

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com

Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote:
Good evening list.I have a very beautiful 31 gram full slice of NWA 1109
eucrite piece with alot of crust running down the side and on top of the
slice.I am looking for a trade for this piece.It is one of the most
beautiful pieces you'll ever see.I am looking for 1 of 3 things.Either a
100 gram or better whole individual fully crusted piece of AMGALA,or a 25
gram slice or better of ESQUEL or a 100 gram slice or better of
ESTHERVILLE.It will come with a riker box, 2 specimen cards and alot of
TLC.Priority shipping $4.00 usa,$6.00 or higher around the world.Let me
know who wants to trade for this world class piece.I have pictures on my
website or I can send them to you.
steve arnold, chicago, usa !!
=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/






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Re: [meteorite-list] New campos - your experiences?

[John Birdsell]

Hello Bernhard. We believe that we consistently provide the highest 
quality Campos available, but please check out other dealers websites 
and judge for yourself.

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com


Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
Hi there,
I am thinking about getting one of these new campos (3-8kg) form y 
collection. Now, Campost end to rust faster than the speed of light, 
and paying some hundred bucks for something that has disintegrated to 
brown powder within a year is nothing that makes me happy, really.

What are your experiences with new campos? Who’s a reliable seller for 
quality pieces (maybe even pieces that have been treated with some 
kind of rust prevention)? Please let me know.


Best regards,
Bernhard „Rendelius” Rems
CEO RPGDot Network 

This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Rare new ungrouped Ureilite sale!

[John Birdsell]

Hey MikeThat's a gorgeous Ureilite! Thanks for sharing you photos!
Cheers

-John
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Michael Farmer wrote:
I have finally cut up and am presenting for sale today one of the most 
interesting Ureilites known.
This is Dhofar 979, a meteorite which I found on January 8th, 2004 in 
Oman. I was with Jack and Devon Schrader and found it about 30 
meteorites from a perfectly oriented chondrite!
This meteorite is unlike  any other Ureilite, it cuts like butter, has 
no diamonds, and is very soft.
It still looks like other Ureilites, without the major cutting problems.

This is a spectacular meteorite, and
I have priced it very low considering what it is.
have a look here
http://www.meteoritehunter.com
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[meteorite-list] Re: Ad New Cumulate Eucrite, CV3 and LL6 polymict breccia

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone...we have just finished updating the website and have 
added a very nice, newly classified Cumulate eucrite, a newly classified 
CV3 and a New LL6 polymict breccia.  If you are in the market or just 
want to see some nice meteorites please feel free to check these guys 
out. In particular, be sure to check out the photos of the CV3-you won't 
be sorry!

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] Ad Museum Quality 6.12 kg Taza Iron

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone. We have just posted a gorgeous 6.12 kg
remaglypted Taza Iron on our website. Even if you're
not in the market for a world class plessitic Iron, you may
enjoy taking a look.
Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
=
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Re: [meteorite-list] New Carbonaceous Fall

[John Birdsell]

Hello Rob and Congratulations on your new thumb-printed (and presumably 
foot-printed) "fall"!  May we ask if there are any known "pairings"?

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
Rob Wesel wrote:
Hello all-
After several hours of sonic booms, hissing noises, and assignment of blame
a nicely thumbprinted 3.3 kilo individual was recovered last night at 0120
hrs not far from my home.
There is some thumbprinting on this finder as well, expected to heal in the
next day or two.
Provisional naming proved acceptable based on anticipated characteristics
and it will henceforth be referred to as Christina.
And, oddly enough, they ARE warm to the touch!
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971

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Re: [meteorite-list] Scale cubes in centimeters

[John Birdsell]

Hello Pierre-MarieDave Freeman recently posted the following source 
for scale cubes to the list. 

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Dear List;
List member Peter Scherff has scale cubes (as seen in meteorite "as 
found" pictures"). For those wanting to increase their Karma at 
meteorite hunting, email Peter for getting your cubes today!  A very 
satisfied repeat customer,
Dave Freeman mjwy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Pierre-Marie PELE wrote:
Hello to the List,
I'm searching for scale cubes but in centimeters scale.
Does anybody know where to buy some ?
Thanks a lot,
Pierre-Marie Pele
www.meteor-center.com
--
Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr 

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Re: [meteorite-list] AMAZING NEW "METEORITE" -FELL ON HOUSE!!!

[John Birdsell]

Hello ZelmirThat certainly is a coincidence. I guess the more people 
that learn about the potential value of meteorites the more "cosmic 
agates" we'll be hearing about in the News. Apparently this chap was 
planning on retiring on the proceeds from Granny's "meteorite" as he 
became quite agitated when I referred to it as an agate and he told me 
to "READ THE NEWPAPER AGAIN".

Oh well
-John

Zelimir Gabelica wrote:
Dear John,
I was very impressed upon reading your message describing the "amazing 
new meteorite that hit a house in Venezuela", because... I was just in 
Venezuela from Sept 1 to 11 (incidently with a really smooth return 
flight on this "magic" date, though some remanent turbulences from our 
"friend" Ivan the hurricane who hit us last Wednesday there over).
I thought that, by bad luck, I missed this new house crasher by a 
couple of days...until I looked at the link, showing this nice 
agate-like egg/pebble!

Well, it turned that, along with some lectures on "advanced materials" 
I had to deliver at a local sumposium in Caracas, the organizers gave 
me also a "wild card" for talking about some more exotic materials.
I logically choosed the topic related to our beloved hobby, namely 
"extraterrestrial materials".

About 80 local people were therefore suddenly aware that meteorites do 
exist and now that John sent the post, I wonder whether we will 
suddenly be flooded from various infos coming from Venezuela and 
describing some "sudden finds in the backyards" or related local fall 
observations.
Actually, as my speaking time was restricted (those kind of lectures 
require extended talks, questions included), I just skipped the last 
part related to... meteorite fakes and the corresponding warnings...

I however doubt your post is really related to my lecture but what a 
coincidence!

I keep you informed if I hear for more exotic falls or strange finds 
in the forthcoming days from there. So far, Venezuela, a large 
country, was very "quiet", with only 3 meteorites reported.
Maybe the Valera cow story, that I did not miss to report, excited 
some imaginations...

Best to all,
Zelimir
A 09:59 14/09/04 -0700, vous avez écrit :
A local newpaper in Venezuela has scooped CNN, NBC and CBS and broken 
the big story about an amazing
new "meteorite" find (see below). We are sure that this will generate 
intense scientific interest as well as intense competition
amongst the list dealers as they vie to purchase this cosmic beauty.
Below is a tranlation of this ground breaking article.

"Into the hands of carvajalense family meteorite that fell 13 years 
ago and deserves to be studied.
It does about 13 years, as a result of a "rain of fleeting stars", 
phenomenon and astronomical spectacle that every year happens 
generally once, fell in one of the houses of the parish Glad Field, 
especially in the house of the Suárez family, of that populated 
community a small meteorite that could well solve many questions on 
asteroids and until the origin of the life.
The grandmother of the young person David Suárez, witnessed the 
fall that night, a strange luminous object in the patio of her 
residence and decided to approach what was a small rock, of about 12 
centimeters in length by seven of wide, still warms up by effect of 
the strong atmospheric effect. She kept the small stone, 
characterized to have oval and contouring form with beautiful lines 
brown, yellow color and amber, as if one was beautiful "Eggs of 
Passover" made by the Russians like inestimables jewels, like a 
memory, without knowledge that nothing less had in its hands than 
many centuries of studies of the cosmos and perhaps of its beginning.
After the death of his grandmother, the young person David Suárez 
decides to take it to science, nevertheless many students of the 
matter in that time, which they wanted was to cut the rock and to 
destroy it to study it without contributing nothing in return, in 
addition without recognizing the inestimable value that represents 
for science. Suárez, makes the call to the true investigators of the 
origin of the life and the sidereal space, so that they communicate 
with him through telephones 2442260 and 2441804."


To view this incredible NEW "Meteorite" click on the link below.

http://www.diarioeltiempo.com.ve/secciones/secciones.php?num=47771&codigo=nact&llve=dos 

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Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Université de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15

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[meteorite-list] AMAZING NEW "METEORITE" -FELL ON HOUSE!!!

[John Birdsell]

A local newpaper in Venezuela has scooped CNN, NBC and CBS and broken 
the big story about an amazing
new "meteorite" find (see below). We are sure that this will generate 
intense scientific interest as well as intense competition
amongst the list dealers as they vie to purchase this cosmic beauty.  
Below is a tranlation of this ground breaking article.

"Into the hands of carvajalense family meteorite that fell 13 years ago 
and deserves to be studied.
It does about 13 years, as a result of a "rain of fleeting stars", 
phenomenon and astronomical spectacle that every year happens generally 
once, fell in one of the houses of the parish Glad Field, especially in 
the house of the Suárez family, of that populated community a small 
meteorite that could well solve many questions on asteroids and until 
the origin of the life.
The grandmother of the young person David Suárez, witnessed the 
fall that night, a strange luminous object in the patio of her residence 
and decided to approach what was a small rock, of about 12 centimeters 
in length by seven of wide, still warms up by effect of the strong 
atmospheric effect. She kept the small stone, characterized to have oval 
and contouring form with beautiful lines brown, yellow color and amber, 
as if one was beautiful "Eggs of Passover" made by the Russians like 
inestimables jewels, like a memory, without knowledge that nothing less 
had in its hands than many centuries of studies of the cosmos and 
perhaps of its beginning.
After the death of his grandmother, the young person David Suárez 
decides to take it to science, nevertheless many students of the matter 
in that time, which they wanted was to cut the rock and to destroy it to 
study it without contributing nothing in return, in addition without 
recognizing the inestimable value that represents for science. Suárez, 
makes the call to the true investigators of the origin of the life and 
the sidereal space, so that they communicate with him through telephones 
2442260 and 2441804."


To view this incredible NEW "Meteorite" click on the link below.

http://www.diarioeltiempo.com.ve/secciones/secciones.php?num=47771&codigo=nact&llve=dos 

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[meteorite-list] Newly Classified Polymict Eucrite NWA 2366 Now Available! Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello Met List. Over the coming months we will be adding a number of 
newly classified, rare meteorites to our website. These include several 
achondrites, one planetary achondrite, a gorgeous carbonaceous 
chondrite, and two new irons. We have just update the website, adding a 
number of full and part slices from a gorgeous, newly classified 
polymict eucrite NWA 2366 (prov.). We have also added a new shock 
darkened L5 chondrite with an amazing black matrix (NWA 2363), and more 
beautiful slices of Imilac pallasite.  Please feel free to view some or 
all of these new items on our website.

Thanks!
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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Re: AW: [meteorite-list] Enough is Enough, Now NWA 1877

[John Birdsell]

Hi Adam and thanks for the note.  We know of around 60 g of picritic 
shergottite fragments that look identical to NWA 1110, and that were not 
part of the original 118 grams.  This suggests that either several 
pieces of NWA 1068 hit rocks and broke into fragments, or perhaps more 
likely, a mass exploded at low elevation spreading fragments over a 
larger area than the 12 x 12 meter region that you mentioned???

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Adam Hupe wrote:
Dear List,
We do know where all of NWA 1110 was found as does the journalist who
documented our second expedition to Marrir.  The first trip was published in
Meteorite Magazine. Every piece of NWA 1110 was found by a Nomadic family in
a 12 meter X 12 meter area 14 kilometers from the village of Marrir.  This
is not a strewn field.  We figured NWA 1068 must have hit a rock on impact
and shattered into several hundred pieces scattering them over a small area.
The location alone is enough to make pairing statements after a qualified
scientist authenticated every piece and the NomCom approved the scientists'
work by making it official.
Adam
- Original Message - 
From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [meteorite-list] Enough is Enough, Now NWA 1877

 

Hello Adam, Stan and List.  Adam-I think you missed the point that Stan
and I were trying to make. We all agree that it would be best if
every single stone found in the desert could be independently
classified, the problem is that there are not enough resources or people
willing to do so. The question was basically, how can fragments of some
potential meteorite be paired with a classified fragment that has been
properly analyzed and microprobed, when the remaining fragments have not
even had a window polished into them, let alone been microprobed? This
is particularily the case when there is no provenance as to the location
in which these fragments were found as they could have been found in
several different locations. It would seem in such a case that the best
"guestimate" one could make in such a case would be to say that these
non-analyzed fragments "probably" pair with the analyzed ones.  For
example, in the case of the 118g of "NWA 1110", presumably around 116g
have not been microprobed. In this case, it seems that the most accurate
statement would be something along the lines of... "the NWA 1110
non-analyzed fragments making up ~116g "probably" pair with NWA 1110's
microprobed fragments".  We are wondering about this because we are
coming up against a similar predicament with several other falls.
Thanks!
-John & Dawn


Adam Hupe wrote:
   

Dear John and List,
The word apparent double standard would apply here.  If you feel it is ok
 

to
 

pick numbers at random for additional finds when it comes to NWA and not
others, why is this not happening with the Antarctic, Sahara, DAGs, SAUs
 

and
 

Dhofars?  Why is it that when a Martian meteorite was announced as NWA
 

1068
 

some dealers are using a number that describes a pairing instead (NWA
 

1110)?
 

Could it be that they are too lazy to apply for their own numbers, have
their material studied and submitted for vote.  NWA 1110 is not a
 

catchall
 

for additional finds, it is an official set of tested pebbles that happen
 

to
 

be Martian.  Using the name NWA 869 is meaningless because like Kem Kem
 

it
 

has become a catchall stone.  I would go as far as to say, you would
 

better
 

off selling NWA 869 as unclassified because an unclassified stone seems
 

to
 

be worth more on the open market these days.  This one of the reasons I
object strongly when it comes to rare material.
All the best,
Adam

- Original Message - 
From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [meteorite-list] Enough is Enough, Now NWA 1877


 

Hello Stan and List.  Yes, this was exactly the point that we made in an
earlier posting (The Probem with Reductionism ad Infinitum).  The
members of this list have not yet received any response from Adam on
this matter and we wonder if he or anyone else have a reasonable
explanation for this apparent double standard.
-John & Dawn

stan . wrote:

   

Regarding the different procedure for e.g. NWA / Gao-Guenie - this
issue was addressed
in an email by Jeff Grossman dated Sept. 9, 2004 (see below).
Gao-Guenie can be treated like Allende or Holbrook in this context as
it doesn't apply to areas of dense meteorite concentration.
   

but what about stones like nwa 869? technically each one of them nees
it's own nwa number and must be classified...
my argumen

Re: AW: [meteorite-list] Enough is Enough, Now NWA 1877

[John Birdsell]

Hello Adam, Stan and List.  Adam-I think you missed the point that Stan 
and I were trying to make. We all agree that it would be best if
every single stone found in the desert could be independently 
classified, the problem is that there are not enough resources or people 
willing to do so. The question was basically, how can fragments of some 
potential meteorite be paired with a classified fragment that has been 
properly analyzed and microprobed, when the remaining fragments have not 
even had a window polished into them, let alone been microprobed? This 
is particularily the case when there is no provenance as to the location 
in which these fragments were found as they could have been found in 
several different locations. It would seem in such a case that the best 
"guestimate" one could make in such a case would be to say that these 
non-analyzed fragments "probably" pair with the analyzed ones.  For 
example, in the case of the 118g of "NWA 1110", presumably around 116g 
have not been microprobed. In this case, it seems that the most accurate 
statement would be something along the lines of... "the NWA 1110 
non-analyzed fragments making up ~116g "probably" pair with NWA 1110's 
microprobed fragments".  We are wondering about this because we are 
coming up against a similar predicament with several other falls.

Thanks!
-John & Dawn


Adam Hupe wrote:
Dear John and List,
The word apparent double standard would apply here.  If you feel it is ok to
pick numbers at random for additional finds when it comes to NWA and not
others, why is this not happening with the Antarctic, Sahara, DAGs, SAUs and
Dhofars?  Why is it that when a Martian meteorite was announced as NWA 1068
some dealers are using a number that describes a pairing instead (NWA 1110)?
Could it be that they are too lazy to apply for their own numbers, have
their material studied and submitted for vote.  NWA 1110 is not a catchall
for additional finds, it is an official set of tested pebbles that happen to
be Martian.  Using the name NWA 869 is meaningless because like Kem Kem it
has become a catchall stone.  I would go as far as to say, you would better
off selling NWA 869 as unclassified because an unclassified stone seems to
be worth more on the open market these days.  This one of the reasons I
object strongly when it comes to rare material.
All the best,
Adam

- Original Message - 
From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [meteorite-list] Enough is Enough, Now NWA 1877

 

Hello Stan and List.  Yes, this was exactly the point that we made in an
earlier posting (The Probem with Reductionism ad Infinitum).  The
members of this list have not yet received any response from Adam on
this matter and we wonder if he or anyone else have a reasonable
explanation for this apparent double standard.
-John & Dawn

stan . wrote:
   

Regarding the different procedure for e.g. NWA / Gao-Guenie - this
issue was addressed
in an email by Jeff Grossman dated Sept. 9, 2004 (see below).
Gao-Guenie can be treated like Allende or Holbrook in this context as
it doesn't apply to areas of dense meteorite concentration.
   

but what about stones like nwa 869? technically each one of them nees
it's own nwa number and must be classified...
my argument against the current guidelines is such:
if a person were to submit 'x' new find comprising of many fragments
of a meteorite, classification can be done based upon a representative
thin section of only 1 fragment (or even a few tinsections) - even if
there are many MANY fragements to the find. all of the fragments get
the same nwa number with little or no testing done to them.
now if more material if found in the exact same place, by the same
people, and is the exact same rare classification as the orginal find
- but it's found after the original stuff is published - then the new
material must have thermoluminecence studies, cosmic ray exposure, and
oxygen isotopse data taken before the material will be considered
paired to the orignial find.
I challange anyone to give me a valid scientific reason why material
sumbited before publishing can all be considered nwa xxx based upon a
cursory visual examination - yet material found after a write up in
the met bul requires exhaustive additional testing to qualify as a
pairing - testing that science make take years to complete for even
the most exotic meteorites such as martian and lunars.
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Re: AW: [meteorite-list] Enough is Enough, Now NWA 1877

[John Birdsell]

Hello Stan and List.  Yes, this was exactly the point that we made in an 
earlier posting (The Probem with Reductionism ad Infinitum).  The 
members of this list have not yet received any response from Adam on 
this matter and we wonder if he or anyone else have a reasonable 
explanation for this apparent double standard.

-John & Dawn

stan . wrote:

Regarding the different procedure for e.g. NWA / Gao-Guenie - this 
issue was addressed
in an email by Jeff Grossman dated Sept. 9, 2004 (see below).

Gao-Guenie can be treated like Allende or Holbrook in this context as 
it doesn't apply to areas of dense meteorite concentration.

but what about stones like nwa 869? technically each one of them nees 
it's own nwa number and must be classified...

my argument against the current guidelines is such:
if a person were to submit 'x' new find comprising of many fragments 
of a meteorite, classification can be done based upon a representative 
thin section of only 1 fragment (or even a few tinsections) - even if 
there are many MANY fragements to the find. all of the fragments get 
the same nwa number with little or no testing done to them.

now if more material if found in the exact same place, by the same 
people, and is the exact same rare classification as the orginal find 
- but it's found after the original stuff is published - then the new 
material must have thermoluminecence studies, cosmic ray exposure, and 
oxygen isotopse data taken before the material will be considered 
paired to the orignial find.

I challange anyone to give me a valid scientific reason why material 
sumbited before publishing can all be considered nwa xxx based upon a 
cursory visual examination - yet material found after a write up in 
the met bul requires exhaustive additional testing to qualify as a 
pairing - testing that science make take years to complete for even 
the most exotic meteorites such as martian and lunars.

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Re: AW: [meteorite-list] TRADE OFFER

[John Birdsell]

Hello Bernhard, and Steve.  I think Steve is using the term "double cut" 
to refer to what we have been calling a "quarter cut".  Essentially an 
end cut that has been cut in half in a plane perpendicular to the 
original cut face resulting in two cut faces intersecting at a 90 degree 
angle.

Cheers

-John

Bernhard Rems wrote:
Steve,
you have been using the term "double cut" several times now. Could you
explain what it means?
Bernhard
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von
Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!
Gesendet: Sonntag, 12. September 2004 16:13
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: [meteorite-list] TRADE OFFER
Hello list.I have a 19.2 slice "DOUBLE CUT" of NWA 1553 EUCRITE for
trade.Let me know what you have to offer.This easily goes for $19 to $22
a
gram.It has alot of fusion crust on the back side.I have pictures if you
want to see them.Let me know.
   steve arnold, chicago
=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/






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Re: [meteorite-list] nova petropolis

[John Birdsell]

Hi SteveNope we don't have any (wish we did though)-what a beautiful 
meteorite!  If you know where we can get some email us.

Cheers
-John

Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote:
Hi again list.As a follow up to my earlier quetion on nova petropolis, are
there any other collecters who have any of this meteorite besides me and
mike farmer?Just wondering.
 steve arnold
=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois 
Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/

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Re: [meteorite-list] nova petropolis

[John Birdsell]

Hi SteveNope don't have any (sure wish we did though)-that's a 
beautiful meteorite!  We do have two gorgeous new irons though, and 
we'll post some photos once they're classified.

Cheers
-John

Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote:
Hi again list.As a follow up to my earlier quetion on nova petropolis, are
there any other collecters who have any of this meteorite besides me and
mike farmer?Just wondering.
  steve arnold
=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/






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[meteorite-list] The Problems with Reductionism ad infinitum

[John Birdsell]

Dear Adam and list. Adam as we follow your argument, we find some 
potential problems. As we understand it you bought a handful of putative 
meteorite fragments (118g) from a moroccan who told you they all came 
from the same strewn field. If you were not actually there when all 118g 
were unearthed, you are then simply relying on the word of the person 
that you purchased your samples from that they all came from the same 
location. You then had thin sections made from one or two of these 
fragments and they were classified as picritic shergottites and assigned 
the provisional name of NWA 1110-(please jump in and correct us if we 
are getting our facts wrong). Then, a planetary scientist looked at the 
rest of your fragments and told you that, by eye-balling them, they were 
consistent with the one or two which had actually been micro-probed. If 
this is the scenerio, then techinally speaking I don't think you can 
really acertain whether the un-analyzed fragments are truely paired to 
the analyzed fragments anymore than other dealers (or planetary 
scientists) can claim that the fragments they purchased from moroccan 
suppliers are paired to the official NWA 1110 without micro probe 
analysis.  If we follow your argument to its ultimate conclusion you 
would have to ask the lab to make thin sections and perform microprobe 
analyses on each and every fragment that you purchased. This is 
particularily true in this case in which multiple picritic shergotite 
samples are coming out of Morocco. This is obviously ridiculous and no 
one would expect anyone to have such an analysis performed as it would 
waste the scientists time. This said, if you really want to insist on a 
strict adherence to the rules, as you appear to be doing, then no one 
can legitimately claim that the un-analyzed fragments in your 118g 
sample are paired with NWA 1110 until they have actually been 
microprobed by a qualified planetary scientist.  Judging by the 
fragments of NWA 1110 that you have been selling on ebay, it does not 
appear that any of these have even had a window polished into their 
surface let alone a thin section made from them. I don't know of any 
planetary scientist capable of accurately classifying a tiny meteorite 
fragment by just looking at its exterior, especially when comparing one 
shergottite to another. Just how strictly do you want to adhere to the 
"correct" procedures for classifying these samples?

Just my two cents worth...
-John
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[meteorite-list] Imilac Slices Now Available-10% Off for List Members! -Ad

[John Birdsell]

Hello List members. As some may have noticed, nice Imilac slices are 
nearly impossible to locate these days. We have recently added a number 
of gorgeous slices to our website. If anyone has been looking for a 
really beautiful translucent piece of Imilac please feel free to check 
them out.  We'll take 10% off  the listed price for list members from 
now until Sept. 15th (just mention this ad).

Cheers
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] Re: More Unsubstantiated Allegations

[John Birdsell]

Dear Adam.  It appears to us that once again you are  making accusations 
about other meteorite dealers without backing up any of your statements 
with facts.  Not only is this unfair to those that you malign but it 
seems to be becoming a habit of yours. If you can not or will not back 
up your accusations with facts then don't make them in the first place.  
The meteorite list has a number of clearly defined polices, one of which is:

"Make sure you can back up statements with -facts and references-"
Mike Farmer asked you to back up your allegations and we are all waiting 
for you to present the "Facts" that you seem to have conveniently omitted.

Kind regards
-John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Adam Hupe wrote:
Mike,
You would make a great politician as you avoid the real issues and address
others with lies. I am not going to entertain you any more because frankly
Mike the truth will be out soon enough, IN A BIG WAY, and you will only be
able to blame yourself.  It is unfortunate that good people will have been
taken along the way.
Adam
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ramblings

 

ADAM, so might I ask what I did in Monahans? PLEASE tell us, I went there,
saw the meteorite, and left for home the same day, so again, please tell
   

us?
 

Meteor Crater? I got arrested there, Busted by Game and Fish for
tresspassing, and case dropped. Again, what scientist might I ask had
something to do with that? ANSWER please.
What museums wont trade with me? Chicago I guess since I donated 998 to
   

them
 

then sold the mass to you.
Casper my hero? You nead to read the archives better.
I still do trading with TCU, Smithsonian, Natural History Museum London,
American Museum of Natural History New York. Adam, name a museum that wont
trade with me.
Answer please.
Michael Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ramblings

   

Hi Mike,
Ok, here goes a name, Everett Gibson, how is that for starters, remember
 

the
   

Monahans meteorite!  Will you ever show your face in Texas again after
 

what
   

you did to the good people? It is all in the press so don't try and lie.
How about the Meteor Crater incident, would you like me to mention the
scientist's name who busted you stealing?  How about the museums di you
upset while you were learning from Casper, an ex hero of yours.  How
 

many
 

museums will not trade with you, would you like me to mention them?
 

Mike
 

you have done damage beyond repair so please find another hobby because
 

a
 

real business man would not bring up the things you do and expect to
survive. Mike, you will not be around in meteoritics much longer because
 

you
   

are quickly loosing what little support you have left in the scientific
community.  If you want to continue this string I will be happy to
 

report
 

more of your escapades.
Tired of Mike's lies,
Adam
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ramblings

 

YAWN, again, "UNNAMED SCIENTISTS", all talking the Hopes, neither one
scientists.
Adam, you are so full of yourself it isn't even funny anymore.
Call me what you like, but you are the drama queen. I recall the
   

Amgala
 

posts during august with glee. so many people selling fake amgala, buy
   

it
   

from Adam if you want the "real thing" etc etc etc.
Adam, if you are not willing to post names, don't bother to post your
bullshit emails full of "unnamed sources".
Real scientists in Houston are way too busy to read the meteorite
   

mailing
   

list.
Michael Farmer
By the way
How is the "we aren't dealers" spiel still working out?
and the adventure stories about a couple of guys who have been on 3
meteorites hunts? You would think by reading the articles you have
   

generated
 

that you and Greg are Indiana Jones's but show your passports and you
   

have
   

been to Africa what, 2 times? 3 maybe? Still, you are doing a good job
   

of
   

hyping yourselves, I myself could'nt handle so much self
   

congratulating.
 

   On another note, I hope Greg is ok (really) I would never want
   

anyone
   

to
 

go through a hurricane and it is centered almost over Greg Hupe right
   

now,
   

among many other list memebers (David Weir) I hope you are well too.
Original Message - 
From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 10:19 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ramblings

   

Dear List,
Most List members joined in order to read

[meteorite-list] Amgala allegatons: fact or fancy?

[John Birdsell]

Dear List and Adam. Adam, in a recent email to the
list (see below) you claimed that "~65% of the
dealers" selling Amgalas were selling something other
than Amgala. Neither Mark Bostick, nor we have seen
anyone selling fake Amgalas and we find this claim of
yours somewhat difficult to believe. Could you please
tell the meteorite-list members the facts upon 
which your statistics were based? It
seems that if you are going to make serious
allegations that smear "~65% of the dealers" out
there, at a minimum you should back your allegations
with facts. We are sure the whole meteorite community
(including the "~65% of dealers" supposedly selling
fake Amgalas) would greatly appreciate hearing the evidence
upon which your based your statement.

Thanks
John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

Adam Hupe wrote:
Hi Matteo and List,
Apparently you have run into some dishonesty, I
believe it is called a bait and switch situation.  
You think you are buying Amgala and you get Zag
instead, a common occurrence these days.  The Amgala
fall is real, ~65% of the dealers who think they are 
selling the real McCoy are in error because
they believe their Moroccan supplier. You can blame
this on the source, not the dealers who are marketing it.

Kind Regards,

Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
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[meteorite-list] test2 delete

[John Birdsell]

test
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[meteorite-list] TEST-DELETE

[John Birdsell]

Test
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[meteorite-list] Ad: Lunar, Martian, Glorieta Mtn, Amgala & More!!!

[John Birdsell]

Hello all.  We have just recently added some very nice Lunar and Martian 
specimens to the website along with some incredible Glorieta Mountain 
slices, Amgala whole individuals and beautiful slices, oriented Gao, 
etched henbury and Muonionalusta.  If you would like to view any of 
these or other beautiful specimens feel free to click on the link below.

Cheers
John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites
http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com
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[meteorite-list] TEST-Delete

[John Birdsell]

Test
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[meteorite-list] MULTIPLE AUCTIONS ENDING SHORTLY!

[John Birdsell]

Hello everyone! This evening we have auctions for several beautiful Big 
Irons ending very soon.  If you would like to check out some really 
beautiful Iron and great deals please feel free to click on the 
following link:

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=arizona_skies_meteorites_power_sellers&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 


Thanks, and as Jim would say- Bid High & Bid Often!
Cheers
John & Dawn
Arizona Skies Meteorites

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