Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Contest, Free Gao-Guenie
Mark and others, I couldn't seem to come up with anything unique so I asked one of my sons...and his answer is better than any original response I was thinking of. Here goes. Meteorites are cool because they are from way out in outer space, and we can't go there. And it is cool to have things from outerspace. I agree. Thanx for another fun subject, John - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Contest, Free Gao-Guenie Hello Everybody, I havent done a meteorite contest in a little while so, without further delay.. Meteorite Contest #8? The prize in this contest is a free Gao Guenie, 13.4g with 95% black crust. Smooth on all sides but one, almost an oriented shape. I am going to be doing a few school presentations here soon and the most comment thing I here from kids on meteorites is Cool!. So, with that in mind. The Winner of this contest will complete the following sentence. Meteorites Are Cool Because. This is close to the African Meteorites are cool contest but different in the fact that it is more broad and therefore should have quite different answers. E-mail your answers to the list, no limit on how many words you use, the contest expires next Tuesday, all decisions final, and e-mail any questions. Mark Bostick Wichita, Kansas __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Snow and Mars water and meteorites
Pictures I've seen from the rover that was on Mars makes it look like the typical rocks are weathered to a rusty brown color...like many olivine/pyroxene (w/iron) rich rocks here on earth. Can anyone tell me if this is thought to be the case, and do any of the Mars meteorites found show any signs of weathering from it's existence on Mars? John - Original Message - From: Francis Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 10:28 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Snow and Mars water and meteorites Mike Reynolds forwarded an interesting article about Snow pack providing the pressure for Mars water to exist and form gullies. If this is true, since snow (sublimated frost) can form anywhere on Mars, there ought to be more gullies in the lower elevations (say, the rim of the Hellas Basin) than in the higher elevations (Tharsis plateau), at similar distances from the equator. This is because the pressure on Mars is near the Triple Point pressure, and a similar amount of snow in either place ought to produce more gullies in the place where the air pressure helps most. There are some assumptions here, and certainly the gulley system shows a wide range of ages. One must not be too hasty in jumping to conclusions, but a superficial glance does show more larger gullies at lower elevations. A precise count and control for age from crater counts may be helpful. Further, there should be some variation in the alteration of same-age Martian meteorites originating from high elevation on Mars to low elevations. As the Morroccans busily increase the sample (and non-Morrocans like Mr Verish :), we will see. Francis Graham __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Slikensides ?
Bill, Thank you for this informative response. I have a nice chunk of Zag that has one surface that looked like a slickenslide...but I've had doubts because it looked smooth/polished, and I was thinking these subtle striations should be grooves with edges. Not the case by your answer. If I can get a good picture of it this weekend, I'll send it to Jeff in Australia and see if he'll put on his site. Thanks again for clarification for all of us. John - Original Message - From: Bill Mason III [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michel Franco [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slikensides ? Michel, Perhaps I can give you an insight into just what slickensides are all about. A slickenside is a fault surface or fault-plane which exhibits movement and dislocation,frequently warped,broken,and frequently offset. When you see a true slickensides it is polished because the sliding surfaces are under great pressure as they move slowly, opposing surfaces are polished and often striated grooved. If you are thinking of impact structure you will most likely find evidence of directional striations as in a dynamite exposition but you will not see the polishing as evidenced in slickenside. Bill Mason - Original Message - From: Michel Franco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:00 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Slikensides ? Dear list I am looking for information about SLIKENSIDE formation. Does they come from a shock in the cosmos or do they form when landing on Earth ? Any detail will be appreciated. Thank's in advance. Best regards Michel FRANCO __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] follow-up finds and their documentation
Hello all, I'm about to ask one of those wandering (also wondering) questions again...one that probably won't be answered to everyone's satisfaction, especially mine. Here goes... With all the latest Campos, Sikhote Alins, Kainez, Gao, Gold Basin, and others (I'm sure) being found these days...what (if any) verification and documentation is done with theselatest finds of known meteorites. Are finders required/supposedto follow any particular stepsto comply with the rules(whatever they are)of the Society that should eventually affect the total weights for these known falls/finds. Is the documentationof these and other "follow-up" findsout of control these days with the interest of meteorites being so high, and the desire to find more specimens paralleling that interest?I'm just curious. It doesn't bother me one way or the other...I just find the issue very daunting from a documentation point of view. I suppose a newly foundSikhote Alin looks like the ones found years before...and that most buyers look at it and say that is a SA andwould buy it. Is it documentedand added it to a running total? Is it supposed to be?Campos are also somewhat distinct in their appearance, but I'm not sure I could tell if one is for sure...if someone asked. The stones are often distinct in their appearance for a given name meteorite, and most buyers know what they are looking at...but (for example)some Gold Basin look just like many NWA's found in recent years.Weathered...and old looking. The source of supplieris always the key for us buyers...we have to have trust. The IMCA helps this situation in my opinion.Another key is tovisually recognize the look of a particular meteorite from experience. A problem with this is that the experience level for recognizing a given meteorite can have a wide range within a group of buyers. Notice I did not lump NWA's into this because it becomes even more gray as you look at them...from my simple mind's perspective. However, the scrutiny is much higher for them than the others...even though the level of "documentation" maybe the same...none, other than it looks like the others and were found in the vicinty of the original finds. Be gentle, John
Re: [meteorite-list] when will the US see another meteorite fall and recovery?
Eric and others, The fireball in PA was a big one. I missed seeing it by seconds...I was out front working and stepped in for a minute for a drink of water...only to miss it. As for where it landed...possibly in the bordering counties of PA and NY, near the middle of PA. There is some farmland in that area...but most of it is heavily wooded eastern mountains (or foothills to you Western guys). Tough terrain to find a couple rocks...especially when most of these two states are one big rock, thinly covered by a little bit of topsoil and vegetation...the woods and underbrush are almost jungle like in many of these areas. A tough area to find meteorites...as far as I know from reports, no one saw it come in close anywhere...so they are probably sitting on the side of a mountain covered by six inches of leaves, etc. and two feet of snow (right now). The mountains and terrain of Colorado also offers great challenges to finding these falls. Flatlands and deserts are obviously the optimum locations for falls. John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 1:56 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] when will the US see another meteorite fall and recovery? In a message dated 2/15/2003 8:31:52 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here in Colorado over the last 4 years, we have had at least 8 bright fireballs that were tracked and trajectories calculated. Thanks to the local museum, they have been publicized in newspapers and on TV (a la the Nininger way). One of these (to my current knowledge) has produced a meteorite. However, the others were certainly large enough to produce meteorites. So, to answer your question, we are not in a meteorite drought, just most are never recovered or if they are, they are not linked to a fireball event or made public. As I recall there was a huge fireball in New York/Pennsylvania a couple years ago that did not result in a found meteorite. Also a big fireball in Arizona between Phoenix and Tucson a couple years ago that the University conducted searches for that resulted in good exercise but not a meteorite. They are dropping by, but nobody is around to welcome them home. I was joking with somebody about building an electromagnet a mile or two across to collect meteorites. The thought of sucking a mercedes benz off the highway and the resulting lawsuits seemed to be a problem to some, but I image it would be a sight to see! Eric Olson http://www.star-bits.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] when will the US see another meteorite fall and recovery?
Mike and others, Since it has been snowing all day and is expected to do the same all day tomorrow (total of 30 inches or so)...I think I'll have time to read more of Nininger's book. The one thing that stands out from his book accounts of searching and finding meteorites (usually indirectly through others) is that he worked really hard at it. If it were a fireball he was chasing...he would drive hundreds of miles around (at least three sides) of a suspected fall, interviewing people to (mathematically) determine the fall area within several miles in each direction. Then he would focus on that area, educating people by showing them real meteorites he had in his pocket, and telling them to contact him if they found anything. He would go to schools, assemblies of all types, etc. to spread the word of the local fall...and of course the promise of money if they found some. Often he would have to wait several months to a year or more to hear from people from that area. And like today's experiences, he often came up empty from his efforts. He had great perseverance. Some interesting things he said that should be remembered...1) meteorites usually stop burning and go out about eight miles or so up because the velocity is much lower than when it first hit the atmosphere, reducing friction.. 2) If you see a fireball go into the horizon...it is not just over there, it is probably a couple hundred miles away (why? refer back to item 1) 3) Where one or a few specimens are found from a significant new fireball, there are probably many specimens still out there to be found. 4) And last but not least, go back to where older falls/finds have occurred and try searching for, and asking about more meteorite finds. Well I'll stop yapping and say goodnight, Happy Hunting, John PS It still blows my mind that Bensour fell in the middle of the largest ongoing meteorite search field (NWA) in the world. Crazy - Original Message - From: Mike Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:45 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] when will the US see another meteorite fall and recovery? Hi John and all, This might be worth following up on if anyone feels ambitious or should find themselves in Massachusetts with a whole lot of free time on their hands. I don't know if anyone remembers this post and a few other earlier ones which referred to a possible fall which may have occurred more or less in my own back yard. Shortly after having read the first report, I took a day trip from the Boston area to check things out. I only looked in the area of a golf course near Amherst, that according to at least one eyewitness would have been in the area of it's flight path. Needless to say, I came home empty handed. This was reported to have occurred just about the same time as the Bensour fall which hit just across the pond from US. A coincidence? Best Regards, Mike Reynolds IMCA #8127 http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2002-April/010973.html _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] when will the US see another meteorite fall and recovery?
Hello all, As David Hardy suggested...things sure are slow on list. I'll try to add something. I'm reading Nininger's book, Find A Falling Star. I'm only a third of the way through...and I'm hooked! I keep looking out back to see if a fireball might be passing by... or maybe I'll find a nice size crater in the backyard when I take the dog out in the morning. Al Mitterling told me this book would stir my desires to go out and find a rock from space. Everyone interested in meteorites should read it. What a story Nininger had to tell. Let's hope Steve Schoner gets well enough to share his observations of the man he met with years ago. In the book he seems to be running from one fall or find to another for about 20 years (so far, from my reading)...mostly in the US, Canada or Mexico. Falls seemed to happenmore frequently during those days, especially in the Midwest. My question is...are we in a meteorite drought (falls)here in the US and elsewhere, or is their no one out there doing what Nininger did when a fireball is witnessed? Obviously it takes lots of people interested in finding them to eventually bring them to someone like a Nininger...who advertised in papers, spoke to groups and individuals, offering money, etc. I knowwe've had sightings...but I think the last recorded meteorite falls in the US were Portales Valley and Monahans in 1998. Can anyone come up with a later one? I think we are in a drought. Let's hope this is the year we see another or two...and of course, it happens in the backyard of someone on the list. When John
Re: [meteorite-list] when will the US see another meteorite fall and recovery?
Matt, Tom, Dirk, Michael and others, From Dirk's and Matt's reports, they are still out there falling. Maybe as Nininger promoted, the finds are out there to be had too.Possibly the latest energies by David Freeman and others to help educate the public will be the starting point fora new batch of finds. If the IMCA group (including me) can help "turn up the volume", maybe we all will benefit with some more materials. As for running around after falls, well that will take someone with lots of time on his/her hand. John PS does the new fall in Colorado have a name, Matt? - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] when will the US see another meteorite fall and recovery? Hi John and list: I too have been thumbing through Find a Falling Star; read it once and am re-reading sections. Nininger did always seem to be running after falls. Virtually every fireball he heard of, he went to investigate, and if it wasnt for his knowlegde and diligence, we wouldnt have most American falls during the 1920s-1950s in our collections. I dont think falls were more frequent, just that he followed and reported them to thepublic and media. Here in Colorado over the last 4 years, we have had at least 8 bright fireballs that were tracked and trajectories calculated. Thanks to the local museum, they have been publicized in newspapers and on TV (a la the Nininger "way"). One of these (to my current knowledge) has produced a meteorite. However, the others were certainlylarge enough to produce meteorites. So, to answer your question, we are not in a meteorite drought, just most are never recovered or if they are, they are not linked to a fireball event or made public. Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com - Original Message ----- From: John Divelbiss To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] when will the US see another meteorite fall and recovery? Hello all, As David Hardy suggested...things sure are slow on list. I'll try to add something. I'm reading Nininger's book, Find A Falling Star. I'm only a third of the way through...and I'm hooked! I keep looking out back to see if a fireball might be passing by... or maybe I'll find a nice size crater in the backyard when I take the dog out in the morning. Al Mitterling told me this book would stir my desires to go out and find a rock from space. Everyone interested in meteorites should read it. What a story Nininger had to tell. Let's hope Steve Schoner gets well enough to share his observations of the man he met with years ago. In the book he seems to be running from one fall or find to another for about 20 years (so far, from my reading)...mostly in the US, Canada or Mexico. Falls seemed to happenmore frequently during those days, especially in the Midwest. My question is...are we in a meteorite drought (falls)here in the US and elsewhere, or is their no one out there doing what Nininger did when a fireball is witnessed? Obviously it takes lots of people interested in finding them to eventually bring them to someone like a Nininger...who advertised in papers, spoke to groups and individuals, offering money, etc. I knowwe've had sightings...but I think the last recorded meteorite falls in the US were Portales Valley and Monahans in 1998. Can anyone come up with a later one? I think we are in a drought. Let's hope this is the year we see another or two...and of course, it happens in the backyard of someone on the list. When John
Re: [meteorite-list] Oriented specimens (ad)
Michael, Thanx for offerings. The 23g Gao nose cone is extraordinary. The frothy crust on the back side looks so light and fluffy. I am impressed...but it is out of my league ($). Thanx again for sharing these beauties. John - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 9:53 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Oriented specimens (ad) Hi Dave, Tom, John anyone else lurking... I offered some oriented gaos yesterday. Bernd jumped on the smallest one only 2 minutes ahead of Martin Horejsi - but the best ones are still available -though larger/therefore more expensiv, not to mention the best one that is world class - really must be seen from the side and the back to appreciate its fabulous form. the other stuff is available, too, though the Campo Nuevo already sold Enjoy seeing them at: http://community.webshots.com/album/63653814KknwSz I would love to hear if others are as WOWed as I by the super oriented one. Best wishes, Michael on 2/15/03 5:25 PM, David Hardy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sure is quiet! __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. - Friedrich Nietzsche -- Worth Seeing: - Earth at night from satelite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm - Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Cool Calendar Clock: http://www.yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites Didgeridoos for sale at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 753
Mark, Your ideas sound reasonable. I have yet to consider this level of protection. Pieces like 753 go in membrane boxes for me...which are somewhat protective. However, the relative lifespan for all things in this earthly environment is a matter of decay. Some meteorites will go faster than others. Hopefully it takes more than a few generations. Remember, a lot of these things (finds) have been around for awhile already. Just keep them away from moistureand from Nantans and Brahins and Campos and Ghubaras and shales, etc. John - Original Message - From: mark ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 753 Hi John, Tom and list John, would a inert invironment help sabilize this oxidation? Like vacuum sealing them in a food storage bag like whats advertised on the tv? Or, for a more pleasing display, one of the little globes used for opal with the large rubber stopper back filled with helium (helium is easy to get from local stores which they fill ballons with is why I mention it). I'm always wondering about long term storage because, as you know, once something starts oxidizing, it often does so very quickly. Mark --- John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, First off, many of R pieces from the desert are oxidized a bit. According to Rocks from Space, these meteorites have very little free metal floating around in the makeup. Like normal chondrites with nickel iron. The metal is in the sulfide forms of pyrrhotite and pentlandite. The iron level in the olivine is the highest among chondrites. All that gives this type of meteorite a higher rate/chance of oxidation than others. Hope this helps, John - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 6:58 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 753 Hello List, I have a slice of NWA 753. It has some rust colored spots through out the matrix. What Am I looking at? If it is rust, what rusted? Thanks, Tom The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 753
Tom, First off, many of R pieces from the desert are oxidized a bit. According to Rocks from Space, these meteorites have very little free metal floating around in the makeup. Like normal chondrites with nickel iron. The metal is in the sulfide forms of pyrrhotite and pentlandite. The iron level in the olivine is the highest among chondrites. All that gives this type of meteorite a higher rate/chance of oxidation than others. Hope this helps, John - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 6:58 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 753 Hello List, I have a slice of NWA 753. It has some rust colored spots through out the matrix. What Am I looking at? If it is rust, what rusted? Thanks, Tom The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Zag for $18/g?
Hello all, This one looks a little fishy to me. Zag for $18/g...seller and bidder from France.Are we looking at a little bit of a scam, or just anxious bidding? Daa? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2156937492category=3239 John PS I think all the other reserves were met to...by the the same guy with deep pockets. Da?
Re: [meteorite-list] New California meteorite
Rob, Very cool find. A find with circumstances that is worthy of your gesture. Another name could be Mojave STS-107. Let us know how it turns out. Thanx to you and Ron for the interesting discussions and information on Columbia's path and debris field. It was a tragic day. Regards, John - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 4:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] New California meteorite Hi All, As I reported earlier, seeing Columbia reenter this past Saturday was not my primary reason for being in the Mojave Desert -- I was actually heading up there to do some meteorite field recovery work for the day. I did find one new meteorite of just over 100 grams, and have scanned in some images of it at the time it was found: http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/feb1a.jpg http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/feb1b.jpg http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/feb1c.jpg And so a thought has occurred to me: what are the chances of bending the Meteoritical Society rules and giving this meteorite the name Columbia or Columbia 7? I checked the Catalogue, and surprisingly there is no meteorite called Columbia. I would be happy to donate the meteorite to NASA, or alternatively arrange to have it cut into 7 pieces to give to each of the families of the astronauts. It's an ordinary chondrite, probably an H5 or H6 with some black shock veins running through it, so it's not particularly rare or interesting to researchers. It's only claim to uniqueness was that it was found on February 1st at 11:44am PST, less than 6 hours after I watched Columbia fly by. Best, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Meteorite 'Space' - Hopefully returning some favours!
Hello List, I took Jeff's offer up and presented a picture and brief story on the "rocks" that got me interested in meteorites. As you would find out they turned out to be meteorwrongs...nice ones at that. The page is in one of his information sections on his site. The link is below. http://www.meteoritesaustralia.com/space/john.html Feel free to add the picture to your own meteorwrong pages. Take care, John - Original Message - From: Jeff Kuyken To: Meteorite List Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 7:55 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Meteorite 'Space' - Hopefully returning some favours! G'day List, There have been so many people on this list who have always been there to help mewhen it was needed. Thank you to everyone. Irealised after I put theunclassified meteorite page together for Steven the other day, that I can probably do that for any list member who has a photo etc to share but doesn'thave theweb-space to do it. I've quickly put together a page tonight and called it The Meteorite 'Space'. It can basically be used as a FORUM FOR THE PURSUIT OF METEORITE RELATED KNOWLEDGE, but will not be for advertising etc. That's what ebay is for! ;-) The link is: http://www.meteoritesaustralia.com/space So feel free to keep it in mind or bookmark it for future use. Hopefully Imay be able to return a few helping hands I've received over the last 18 months. All the best from Australia on Australia Day, Jeff KuykenI.M.C.A. #3085www.meteoritesaustralia.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold basin finds!
Tom, Way to go Right now they are probably like chunks of gold to you. Like I said last week...field collecting of anything makes our collections all the more valuable to ourselves. JD - Original Message - From: Tom aka james Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 8:46 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold basin finds! Hello List, I think today was about my 7th trip to gold basin and finaly, two GB's a 5.3 and 24.3. They are still out there! They both look like the original L4's. Thanks, Tom The proudest member of the I.M.C.A. #6168 _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial rock guessing
This is a followup to Bob's comments in reference to guessing the types of terrestrial rock we've seen lately on the list. By the way, I love some of earth's finest rocks...so I do not look down at them at all...but they are not from other planets/sources. The site below has a list of over 1200 different rocks...staggering to think about. http://www.georeferenceonline.com/MineMatch/images/BGSRocks.htm John - Original Message - From: Robert Verish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 2:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial rock guessing Here's an interesting excerpt from John McPhee's book Annals of the Former World that relates to petrology and terminology: http://athena.uwindsor.ca/units/leddy/2002.nsf/HelpSubjectGuidesEarthSciGlos sary?OpenForm And to see how each of these various rock types relate to each other, take a look at this diagram: http://www.southalabama.edu/geography/allison/gy343/IUGS_Q_A_P.pdf If you would make this diagram into a dart-board and then pick a rock type by throwing a dart at this board, you would have a better than even chance of coming up with the correct rock type. ;-) BOb V. __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] oldest collector
Hello Al and others, I have been at collecting for about 4 years after finding some of the most convincing meteorwrongs you'll ever see. Someday I'll get them up on web for you all to see. It turned out to be a rocky-like slag that had a lot of flux in it from oldtime smelting. Melted surfaces with cupped features, ball-like surface features that looked like chondrules, etc...might fool many early collectors. Amigo Bob (Haag) finally gave me the bad news. I actually studied, watched auctions, etc. for about a year before I started buying. I wonder how many other folks start out by finding a meteorwrong? Quite a few I would bet. As for Arizona...I visited once in 1962...but my parents drove right by the crater. Too bad. John - Original Message - From: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] oldest collector Hi All, Looks like we have some old collectors out there errr.I mean people that have collected for quite some time. My first collection piece was from Meteor(ite) Crater in the 1960's. Probably 1965 or 1966. Went to the crater as a kid. They sold Canyon Diablo Meteorite oxide (shale) on a card. I still have the cards which are purple, reddish in color and say From Outer Space showing a meteor in flight with the oxide glued in the center of the fireball. It has information about the impact on the back. I can't say that I really got serious about collecting until the 1980's though. I did make an effort to obtain a iron meteorite from Meteor(ite) Crater in 1979 but they didn't like the idea of selling iron meteorites to just anyone, so I settled for a larger chunk of iron oxide which I still have in my collection. After that I got serious. Thank-you Robert Haag! Also Thank-you Blaine Reed! John Sinclair wrote about the attractions around Tucson. I agree with him on all of his well suggested places. One such place he mentioned was Tombstone and the shoot out at the O.K. Corral. There was also another infamous shoot out at that location (1996?) which another list member no doubt has not soon forgot :-) --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA statistics as per Met.Bull 86
Bernd, Jeff, Mark B and others: Once again, thank you for your help with these questions. Hopefully others learn as much as I do...and appreciate the knowledge gained. So the irons are gone from Africa? Maybe yet to be found in some areas? Regards, John - Original Message - From: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA statistics as per Met.Bull 86 Norbert wrote: There are more than a thousand L's and H's just from NWA ... Classified H chondrites: 156 Classified L chondrites: 146 Classified LL chondrites: 044 Classified C chondrites: 022 Classified R chondrites: 007 Classified achondrites:037 Classified iron meteorites:005 Provisional listing of NWAs: H chondrites: 213 L chondrites: 249 LL chondrites: 068 C chondrites: 033 (this includes D. Bessey's CR2s) R chondrites: 003 Achondrites:020 iron meteorites:001 Let me remind you once more that I am only mentioning NWA designations in this breakdown - not all the other Hot Desert meteorites from Oman, Lybia, Algeria, and those that have a real name like Tafassasset etc. Let me also remind you that the provisional overview is at least 6 months or even one year old. Numbers will have increased dramatically in the meantime. Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Iron Meteorite Finds
Norbert, Mark and list, Thestatistics/estimates suggest somewhere near 86% of all falls are chondrites...achondrites make up 7%, iron meteorites make up 6%, stony-irons have the final 1%. Not to many pallasites or mesosiderites... anywhere. Do the NWA numbers suggest a higher number (%) for the stone totals, and less for irons and stony-irons? Seems that way. Does anyone know (or even an idea) about this information? John - Original Message - From: Mark Miconi To: ROCKS ON FIRE Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Iron Meteorite Finds Norbert, First Nice website. Second and maybe you or someone on the list can answer this as it is along the same lines as your question regarding Irons. Why are there no stoney meteorites found in Australia? If there have been Stoney Meteorites found there, what is the ratio of Stoney to Iron? I have been on the list for 3 years now and can not remember seeing any stoney meteorites being sold that came from Australia. Thanks in Advance Mark M. Phoenix AZ - Original Message - From: ROCKS ON FIRE To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 3:34 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Iron Meteorite Finds Hello, List,does anyone know about how many new irons have been found recently compared to stony meteorites? It occurs to me that the market gets flooded with new chondrites every day but hardly any new iron, nut to mention stony irons. There are more than a thousand L's and H's just from NWA, I guess.It seems to me that apart from Campo and Nantan (yes, Sikhote and Brahin too) that stuff is getting rare. And it shows such nice etching pattern! -- Best regards from DOWN-UNDER,Norbert Heike Kammel ROCKS ON FIRE IMCA #3420www.rocksonfire.com
Re: [meteorite-list] please please see this
Mohamed and Matteo, It looks igneous to me...quartz or pyroxene crystals being the main mineral. Black mineral maybe magnetite...or a amphibole or a mica. Mohamed...question...does it attract to a strong magnet? If so, probably the black is magnetite. Regards, John - Original Message - From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] please please see this .the matrix is similar to the quartz, and probably is terrestrial material. opinions from others? Regards Matteo --- M Yousef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PLEASE SEE THIS: http://www.alifyaa.com/meteorite/pln/ Sincerely Mohamed H. Yousef -- _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: [meteoritecollectorsassociation] Meteorite or Meteorwrong Display
David, Sounds like a great way to get out the message. Like most of us, I have done a little meteorite sharing with classrooms, co-workers, and scouts. I always get the feeling that I'm one of just a few people that have a clue about what meteorites are. While popular like never before, the number of people with the general knowledge is very limited. As David said, we are the ones that need to share the information with others. Way to go Dave! John PS Bringing a scope with a polarizer (if not too expensive) can be great way to blow their minds. Or buy a hand held one. - Original Message - From: David Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite collectors association [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:57 PM Subject: [meteoritecollectorsassociation] Meteorite or Meteorwrong Display Dear Listees; As you have recently seen on the list, there is always someone needing more information on meteorwrong and meteorite identification. I have just taken some of my meteorites (meager small things that they are) and some of my beautifully classic meteorwrongs (massive magnetite, 3 pound steam locomotive clinkers, ironized sandstone nodules) and some neat books, Cosmos by Sagan, Rocks From Space, O. Richard Norton, Bob Haag's Catalogue of Meteorites and put them in a very nice display case at the local library. Of the 30 or so rocks in the case, 8 are meteorites, the rest are great examples of close-to-be examples of meteorites. The small contest is to guess the correct number of real meteorites. Prize is a small slice of Gibeon. I will be speaking this coming Tuesday evening at the library about meteorites and even identifying samples that are brought in. The two local newspapers will be running feature articles and even a photo or two. For all of you out there in meteorite land, there is a great deal of inter satisfaction related to giving back to one's community by doing things like this little show and tell display and public meeting. I encourage all who are looking for something to do this winter to get involved...and maybe get a shot at brokering a new meteorite find, or helping out with a new strewnfield documentation...or just letting adults act like kids when they get to hold a real meteorite. It is great fun, and kids have eyes as big as grapefruits when they hold a real meteorite in their hands. Try your favorite library. I spent forty-five minutes and have a better looking and more functional display than the traveling NASA display presently at the same library. Their flier says Meteorites are magnetic So, I have a nice piece of lodestone with some paper clips on it to confuse those lucky meteorite guessers, lots of fun for all. Very best, 71 degrees presently, and clear in Tucson Dave Freeman Apply your mind to at least one problem which has never been solved, which in general is considered impossible of solution, but which, being solved, would help humanity. Do with your life something that has never been done, but which you feel needs doing...Harvey Harlow Nininger To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Genuine meteorite?
Does anybody have any information on the Genuine meteorite from Japan?It's not in my information. Just curious... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2153745214category=3239 John (:}
Re: [meteorite-list] More on NWA 753 and NWA 978
Bernd, Mark and Dean, Thank you for your responses on NWA R-chondrites. My comparison is that my two slices of 978 looks a lot fresher than my two 753 slices and one individual, which are more oxidized (orange colored) than the 978 I have. The chondrules appear to be rounder and smaller too in the 978. The 782 and 800 ones are also relatively fresh looking, but to me they look different from 753 and 978. The 978 and Dean's latest material look alike by my comparisons, and yes Bernd they have light colored chondrules in a greyish black matrix that is like looking into the milky way. Very nice material. The new piece from Dean had a fair amount of white caliche on the exterior, but the interior is fresh looking. The price of these R meteorites ($7 to 20/g), along with Allende($4 to 5/g), Bilanga ($12 to 18/g), Gao ($1 +/-), Zag ($0.50 to $2/g), SA ($0.30 to $1.00/g) offer some of the best deals out there right now for great falls and finds. What a time to build a collection. John - Original Message - From: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 3:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] More on NWA 753 and NWA 978 Bernd Pauli HD schrieb: NWA 753 is a R3.9 rumurutiite chondrite, NWA 978 is classified as an R3.8 chondrite Hello again, I just looked at my two little NWA 753 chondrites from Jim Strope and Michael Blood and compared them to my NWA 978 endcut from the Hupés. My personal observation is that the chondrules in 753 are a bit larger and slightly oval, whereas they are smaller in my beautiful 978 endcut. Moreover, my NWA 978 has a slightly cloudy texture (you might also call it a dark-light structure which somehow reminds me of the Milky Way at night with the unaided eye :-) Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] marjalahti pallasite..... yada yada yada
Elton, Rosie, Steve and others, This is a tiresome subject. Rosie you were right on target last week when discussing the attitude of Steve who seems to often be offering his mine is better than yours attitude, and again today when you commented on Elton's attempt to lead Steve to better deals. I would have to say the number of willing traders out there is shrinking by the day. The approach taken by Steve is brash and irritating. The rumors of some of these dealings are not surprising. I'm sure a book could be written about them all but who would want to read it. I think he even dreams of such a book. No fame will come from the approach taken. Steve, you should treasure your collection a little more. The revolving door approach demonstrates that these things are nothing more than badges to you...and we have the problem of having to experience your presentations with each new wonder...it is not appealing to me or most others I would suspect. I understand the idea that these are like cash, and trading is one of our options as collectors. But you seem to have developed a new method. Steve, I think you might be surprised at how many awesome, intact (for the most part) meteorite collections that are out here. Many awesome specimens that were acquired at a great price or through a great deal. Here is to the true collectors. Here is to field collecting of any kind...that is where your mind begins to treasure what discovery and collection is all about. Everyone should do both if they can. I would not trade many of my personal earthy finds...even for a slice of marjalahti. Well, to all those going to Tucson...have a safe and enjoyable trip, and hopefully get along with each other. I would love to be there to meet all of you, including Steve. But I'll remain back east dreaming of Gold Basin and the rest of the show. Report in please. As suggested by others: Steve...it is time to lay low and cool it...both here on the list, in your dealings and in Tucson. This is a tiresome subject. John Divelbiss Herman-75 IMCA 2006 - Original Message - From: Rosemary Hackney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: E.L. Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]; STEVE ARNOLD [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] marjalahti pallasite. yada yada yada Elton... neither do I understand.. I do not know how rare is defined. They are all rare to me... shrugs. Sometimes ... my suspicious feminine nature takes over.. and then I think strange ideas...but.. it seems to me...it is a way of flaunting a new acquisition without coming out and saying.. I have this and you don't... neener neener. I have friends in high paces.. and you don't. or.. Am I stud or what? Just crazy Rosie ramblings as I said.. sheesh maybe he really means to trade. But when I tried... it never worked out. Rosie - Original Message - From: E.L. Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: STEVE ARNOLD [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] marjalahti pallasite. yada yada yada Would you; 1) define rare or are you fishing? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA R-chondrite pairings
Hello all, On to new subject. Can anyone tell me if any of the different numbered NWA R-chondrites are paired? Like NWA 753 and 978, both R3.8's...and also NWA 782 and 800...both R4.0. Along with Ouzina...also a R4.0. The reason I asked isbecause I was oneof the curious torecently buy a "non-magnetic" NWA meteorite offering from Dean. I received it this weekend and it looks just likea fresh slice of 978 I got from the Hupes. Very nice...but unclassified I suppose. Just curious about pairings...maybe it is not known and yet to be studied, John
Re: [meteorite-list] Off subject... List member crossing the threshold!
Norbert, Congratulations...I'll have to send a gift. Something greenish brown, cold and hard. What did we get for a present, honey?...We got a rock. Best Wishes, John - Original Message - From: Dave Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Off subject... List member crossing the threshold! I`ve heard from a very reliable source that List Member and IMCA Member Norbert Classen will be crossing the threshold on Saturday, January 4th.! Let`s all send a congratulations to him and his new bride, but please no rice throwing!!! Congratulations and good luck to the new Mr. and Mrs. Norbert Classen!!! Dave Schultz __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] sunday night auctions
Hello all, I have 4 nice combination thin sections andslices for sale on Ebay that are due to finish Sunday night (my time in PA). Three of them are very old terrestrial samples including olivine gabbro, hypersthene (orthopyroxene) and peridotite, which represent some of earth's close cousins to achondrites. They are very nice andcan be usedformaking comparsions to achondrites, and for practicing mineral identification. The fourth combination is a nice section/slice of NWA 904...made from an end section I purchased from the Hupe's. It is a unique meteorite as you all know. These were all made bythe same person who prepares Jeff Rowell's.All of these sections have covers. See them at. http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/herman-75/ Thanx for reading, John
Re: [meteorite-list] sunday night auctions
I meant an end piece of 904, not an endsection...blah, blah, blah. roger and out, JD - Original Message - From: John Divelbiss To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 7:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] sunday night auctions Hello all, I have 4 nice combination thin sections andslices for sale on Ebay that are due to finish Sunday night (my time in PA). Three of them are very old terrestrial samples including olivine gabbro, hypersthene (orthopyroxene) and peridotite, which represent some of earth's close cousins to achondrites. They are very nice andcan be usedformaking comparsions to achondrites, and for practicing mineral identification. The fourth combination is a nice section/slice of NWA 904...made from an end section I purchased from the Hupe's. It is a unique meteorite as you all know. These were all made bythe same person who prepares Jeff Rowell's.All of these sections have covers. See them at. http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/herman-75/ Thanx for reading, John
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor-doubtful
Rob and Frank, Rob...you're not convinced? The Hugh comment was great Frank. I've heard of imaginary deer and bunnies running out in front of crashing cars, etc. But have you ever heard of a meteorite being blamed for the barn being blown up by the recipe still? JD - Original Message - From: fcressy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor-doubtful But Rob, It was still warm after being in the ground for three weeks!! And it made a hole as big as Hugh and we all know what a large person Hugh was. (I'm sure this is what they meant when they said it made a hugh hole). You sure this doesn't warrent a road trip to Sacramento?? Frank ;-) - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 4:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor-doubtful Hi All, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2900909851 The story says it all. And yet someone is willing to throw $100 at it... No exact mass, no mention of being attracted to a magnet, and only one low-resolution image. But $100 was enough to meet the reserve... --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] new sections including NWA 904
Hello, I just finished listing 5 new covered thin sections on ebay. These were made from my material through Jeff Rowell. The five includes NWA's 787, 869 and 904. Also there is a nice Bilanga section, and one of my new terrestrial gabbro sections, which looks something like your favorite eucrite. My about me page has the list. See below. http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/herman-75/ Regards, John
[meteorite-list] ebay auction for 98375 should be 98175 (and my other faux pas...)
Hello all, One of my auctions was just questioned and it turns out that I have a (meteorite list) faux pas on ebay, for the following item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=736303525 It is not Sahara 98375, but 98175...and still a LL3.5. (Thanxto Michael Masse for questioning it) I will add note to auction (or relist) for those not on the list. I suppose this one, and my weekly listings of related terrestrials makes two this week...faux pas(s) that is. Please don't blast me...I'm just trying to get the group and others to consider some of the terrestrials to be close cousins to the achondrites of other planetoids.It's a kin to pork, "the other white meat". I really am interested in sharing, and ofcourse make a couple bucks($) to offset my expensive hobby, meteorites. I work very hard at rock hounding these terrestrial specimens. I go through a lot of rock before I find whatI'm looking for. Look for more goodies including some great thin sections in the coming weeks. I will list in the ebay area that gets the most hits over time. To date, fellow meteorite collectors make up over half my buyers of this material. Regards, John
Re: [meteorite-list] Interesting breccias
Matt, LL3.5, and L5 or LL5 (would say 6 but I see a number of nice chondrules in it too). Very nice material. John - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 12:59 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Interesting breccias Thought some of you who enjoy brecciated meteorites, may like these guys...any guesses as to their petrologic types? http://www.mhmeteorites.com/images/nwa_breccia.jpg http://www.mhmeteorites.com/images/nwa_breccia2.jpg === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com PO Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA FAX: 303-763-6917 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MUNICH 2002
Mauro, Great pictures...a real treat. If we didn't know any better, the Gujba and Taza pictures look like something from outerspace... Thanx for sharing, John - Original Message - From: Mauro Ianeselli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:25 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] MUNICH 2002 Hello list, I put some pictures of the Munich Show 2002 (Mineralientage 2002) on Yahoo Photos ( http://photos.yahoo.com/mauroianeselli ). You can see the new Neuschwanstein fall (the original and a copy made by Dieter and Gabriele Heinlein - Dieter, I hope to see you next year!), meteorites from BrunoCarine, the new Tabelbala (HOW) from Achmed Pani, some pieces of lunar martian, how and acap (Mo's Meteorites). I met Mike Farmer and Jim Strope at the stand of Peter Pittman and Sergei Afanasiev. Siegfried Haberer had some nice pieces, I saw the gorgeus meteorite that you can see in the front page of the last issue of METEORITE and a beautiful (some kilos) carbonaceus chondrite. Some nice pieces at the stands of Christian Stehlin (Abraxas), Labennes, Rocks on Fire (Norbert Heike Kammel) and Eric Haiderer. Nice show, I hope to see more dealers next time and I hope that my friend Matteo Chinellato will come at the 2003 show! Enjoy! Mauro -- *** Mauro Ianeselli [EMAIL PROTECTED] International Meteorite Collectors Association IMCA #2122 Associazione Astrofili Trentini www.mtsn.tn.it/astrofili *** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Color Clans
EP, Your scenario is along the lines I was thinking, but the evidence to support it seems limited at this time. In time we will learn more I'm sure. As you and others may have noticed, I do not mind exposing my ignorance on a given subject. Doing so opens up the possiblilty of someone else teaching me something new, or as you have done...provoke more thinking. Especially on a subject like this that does not have clear cut answers at this time. Even a low IQ guy like me can help all of us to think more about a given subject, which hopefully leads to bringing enlightenment to all of us. My favorite line in my work is that I'm dumber than a rock (or meteorite) until I get it. That applies to rocks from space. Thanx EP for adding to the discussion. Bernd...what say about all this? John PS I still think mesosiderites are just impact melts...different process (molten collision versus solid collision) maybe, but still an impact formed texture of stone and metal. Why label it a stoney-iron??? Looks like Portales Valley and some IMB's should be called stoney iron too. H... there I go again exposing myself to the world. - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Color Clans Hi all - It seems to me that instead of the meteorite classes being tied to one particular asteroid, it is more likely that ultimately the classes of meteorites (and some sub-classes not yet separated out) will be tied to classes of asteroids. In other words, in this particular case the source may not necessarily Vesta, but a Vesta-like asteroid. If there are classes of asteroids, and my guessis that it will turn out that there are, then you get into the differentiation problem and the problem of parent body size. Wild stuff, but that's how I think this is going to play out. Hopefully someday soon we'll probably see a telescope actually placed within the asteroid belt and we'll know the true state with certainty. ep --- John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Al, Great stuff Al. As always, thank you for responding to my question and comments. You guys are going to force me back into the books to see what I read, but obviously didn't learn. As I remember it, the evidence with Vesta has to do with the large gouge in it's side that shows different levels of crust (eucrite) and sub crust (diogenite). This leads to another challenge or question, if we think all or most of HED's come from Vesta, then why do they look so different from each other?. Some eucrites are white or grey, while others are a shade of light brown/yellow. The differences in diogenites are even greater. Is the new olivine diogentite thought to be from Vesta also? My answer would be they sure could be. My experience in finding plutonic rocks here on earth is that the same area of exposure searched can have a wide variety (in appearance) of same type type rock. Some are more rich in one mineral than another...but for the most part still made up of the same ingredients. Temperature and pressure of the magma at one location versus another precipitates out minerals at different rates. Also the makeup of the magma then changes as it losses more of one element than others, changing the resulting rock formation mineral ratios. I think I answered my own question, but I'M WAY OVER MY HEAD HERE!!! HELP.John - Original Message - From: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Color Clans Hi John, I'll take a stab at this but Bernd really has great resources for answering this no doubt better than I can. The topic that Bernd had started was on asteroid color clans and that at least 90 percent of asteroids are associated with families (from collisions in the past). No doubt the Vesta HED's are from chunks broken off from Vesta in an impact and that have made their way into an orbit that upon further impact has allowed meteoroids to end up in some of the kirkwood gaps where they can be purbatrated into Earth crossing orbits. Yes they are from other sources but they originated from the same source or asteroid. No doubt this is true for the other related asteroid family groups and again the color clans that they are beginning to piece together with the new research. I don't know if we can say for sure or not if a certain meteorite is from a particular asteroid chunk or fragment but there is very strong evidence to show the HED's are indeed from Vesta and also a strong link of the H type chondrites to asteroid Hebe. I don't think
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Color Clans
Hi Al, Great stuff Al. As always, thank you for responding to my question and comments. You guys are going to force me back into the books to see what I read, but obviously didn't learn. As I remember it, the evidence with Vesta has to do with the large gouge in it's side that shows different levels of crust (eucrite) and sub crust (diogenite). This leads to another challenge or question, if we think all or most of HED's come from Vesta, then why do they look so different from each other?. Some eucrites are white or grey, while others are a shade of light brown/yellow. The differences in diogenites are even greater. Is the new olivine diogentite thought to be from Vesta also? My answer would be they sure could be. My experience in finding plutonic rocks here on earth is that the same area of exposure searched can have a wide variety (in appearance) of same type type rock. Some are more rich in one mineral than another...but for the most part still made up of the same ingredients. Temperature and pressure of the magma at one location versus another precipitates out minerals at different rates. Also the makeup of the magma then changes as it losses more of one element than others, changing the resulting rock formation mineral ratios. I think I answered my own question, but I'M WAY OVER MY HEAD HERE!!! HELP.John - Original Message - From: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Color Clans Hi John, I'll take a stab at this but Bernd really has great resources for answering this no doubt better than I can. The topic that Bernd had started was on asteroid color clans and that at least 90 percent of asteroids are associated with families (from collisions in the past). No doubt the Vesta HED's are from chunks broken off from Vesta in an impact and that have made their way into an orbit that upon further impact has allowed meteoroids to end up in some of the kirkwood gaps where they can be purbatrated into Earth crossing orbits. Yes they are from other sources but they originated from the same source or asteroid. No doubt this is true for the other related asteroid family groups and again the color clans that they are beginning to piece together with the new research. I don't know if we can say for sure or not if a certain meteorite is from a particular asteroid chunk or fragment but there is very strong evidence to show the HED's are indeed from Vesta and also a strong link of the H type chondrites to asteroid Hebe. I don't think there is much doubt about the Mars type meteorites (SNC's) are from Mars and the Lunar meteorites are from the moon as we have been there and have material to compare to. With the color clans coming into play we can at least say that certain meteorites are from certain families now. On a related note Mar's moon Phobos is very similar to the CV3's like Allende but there are also many other asteroids out there with that spectral match (could it be the same clan?) I have always thought with the larger crater I see in the photos taken by NASA that Phobos was a good candidate for that source material. Another question or comment. Perhaps some of the meteorites of different classes sample the same asteroid (or family, clan). We could have iron meteorites, pallasites and chondrites or achondrites all from the same parent body but we are looking at different depths of material all from the same parent body or asteroid family clan. This is no doubt true of the meteorites we have from Vesta and shows material from different depths. My best! --AL John Divelbiss wrote: Hi Al, Rob, Bernd and others, I think it is wonderful to think we can match types with asteroids that are labeled and watched. I have a question. Is it safe to say that what we are doing is matching spectrums of types with those same specturms for a given asteroid, but not necessarily committing to say that is probably from that asteroid. In other words, their maybe(must be) several to hundreds of a given type asteroid out there. And that one LL4 could come from one rock, and another from a different rock with the same spectrum on the opposite side of the belt. I maybe stating the obvious, but for instance I so often read that an HED is probably from the asteroid Vesta, when in truth it maybe from another one. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] meteorites and rocks for sale
Hello All, This is my first shameless plug for a listing of goodies for sale and due tomorrow night on ebay. Tonight will be the long version. The list has a couple meteorite slices including Gao, Dhofar 007 and NWA 904. http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/herman-75/ I've also added some nice earthly material (olivinegabbro) which I liken to achondrites such as shergottite and diogenite.I'velisted a few slices that are a cheap version of a nice slice ofthe good stuff. I know many of you could care less about such material, but I feel compelled to share what I think is great study material. Especially when comparing to achondrites.Based on its location in the field, this material isprobably ancient ocean bedrock from the Pre-Cambriantime period, and maybe over a billion years old.I would like to think if we ever find meteorites on the moon from earth, it would be material similar to this. I also have listeda piece of magnetite rich gneiss (iron ore) which is stongly attracted to magnets. In the future I will also have more meteorites, thin sections of meteorites and gabbros, etc, and other types of earthly finds from the same area including peridotite, serpentenite, hypersthene-magnetite rich material, gneiss(es), etc. If any of you are interested in getting some of this great earthly material, contact me and I'm sure I could fix you up fora small price plus shipping. All of the material was field collected by me. Take care and thanx for reading. John Divelbiss Reading, PA IMCA 2006
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Color Clans
Hi Al, Rob, Bernd and others, I think it is wonderful to think we can match types with asteroids that are labeled and watched. I have a question. Is it safe to say that what we are doing is matching spectrums of types with those same specturms for a given asteroid, but not necessarily committing to say that is probably from that asteroid. In other words, their maybe(must be) several to hundreds of a given type asteroid out there. And that one LL4 could come from one rock, and another from a different rock with the same spectrum on the opposite side of the belt. I maybe stating the obvious, but for instance I so often read that an HED is probably from the asteroid Vesta, when in truth it maybe from another one. I've read McSween and Norton's books amoung others, but I never read/heard it stated like I'm trying to do...poorly. Looking for input, John PS Great topic guys - Original Message - From: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Color Clans Hi Bernd and all, Hi AL and List, HED type meteorites probably sample...asteroid Vesta H type meteorites probably sample asteroid Hebe L4 type meteorites may sample .. asteroid Eros CM2 type meteorites may sample . Ceres Aubrites may sample asteroid 3103 . (44 Nysa) M type asteroids (as asteroid Psyche) some of the iron meteorites types A type asteroids (as asteroid Asporina) pallasite meteorite types and of course we have the lunar (is there a classification category yet?) There is LUN-A = lunar highland breccias (DaG 262, NWA 482) There is LUN-B = lunar mare basalt (NWA 032, Dho 287) and Mars (SNC's) meteorites Can anyone add other links (weak or otherwise?) I know there is a link to the L6's but can't find that right now. O.R. Norton CEM, p. 253, Fig. 11.10: Comparison of reflection spectra of the CR2 chondrite, Renazzo (solid curve), and the main belt asteroid 2 Pallas (open circles). The match is almost perfect ... Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sounds of the Bovedy fall
Rob, Very cool. It sounded like an L3 to me. Thanx for sharing, John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Sounds of the Bovedy fall Hi List,when I returned from the States on Thursday evening, there was a package waiting for me containing an audio tape of the Bovedy meteorite fall. It's pretty cool, so I thought you might want to hear it for yourselves.It was recorded on 25th April 1969, in County Londonderry, Northern Ireland - a woman was recording bird song just as the 5.4kg Bovedy (L3) meteorite fell, and she caught the detonations through her microphone. The booms and rumblings echo around for several seconds after the first detonation, and a spooked dog starts to bark soon after (the Bovedy Dog??).The fun starts at around 34 seconds into the track, which you can download athttp://fernlea.tripod.com/bovedy.wavIt's always nice to see what caused it, so here's a picture of my Bovedy slicehttp://fernlea.tripod.com/bovedy.jpgThanks to Derek Heatly and the Planetarium for the original recording!Cheers,Rob Elliott.www.meteorites.uk.comFernlea Meteorites,The Wynd,Off Dickson Lane,Milton of Balgonie,Fife. KY7 6PYUnited KingdomTel: +44-(0)1592-751563Fax: +44-(0)1592-751991Mobile: 07909-773929Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [meteorite-list] Tafassasset classification
Norbert, Thank you...awesome response. John - Original Message - From: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Tafassasset classification Norbert Classen modestly wrote: Now, I hope this helps to explain Dr. Otto's point of view, and the difference between type 7 chondrites and primitive achondrites. To me, all of this sounded more than convincing. I just hope that I've been able to present his view coherently in my poor English. And sorry for this lengthy email... E x c e l l e n t post, E x c e l l e n t English! A resounding bravo from your fellow countryman, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tafassasset classification
Hello All, Primitive is primitive!Help me to understand the differences please. Is the argument about where the line(s) should be drawn between a chondrite (that is really differentiated...like a 7) versus a primitive achondrite (that is not quite differentiated enough to be called a achondrite)? Is there really a 7 category and why? Are primitive achondrites now considered differentiated enough to be distinguished from a highly changed chondrite? small versus coarse grains in matrix? How is this line drawn? mineral makeup, level of glass, age, grain size/changes, etc. ? Lots of questions with this story. Alain would have something to say about all this. Ann Black, is there a position written from his corner? John - Original Message - From: Norbert Classen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Svend Buhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 2:30 PM Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Tafassasset classification Hello Bernd, Svend, Anne, and List, I discussed this subject several times with my old friend Dr. Otto, the German researcher who did the original analysis on Tafassasset (Freiburg), a stone that was originally submitted to the NomCom. as Tenere 001, a new ungrouped primitive achondrite similar to Divnoe, and the brachinites. He was more than suprised that the paired Tafassasset (Paris) has been submitted as an equilibrated CR chondrite. He gave me several reasons for his original classification of Taf- Frei as a primitive achondrite, but I can't remember them all right now (you know, I don't have a degree in mineralogy, petrology, and/ or cosmochemistry). But I remember his central argument: primitive achondrites show a more or less completely recrystallized matrix that looks entirely different from even highly equilibrated chondrites. He showed me several thin sections of various PACs, and equilibrated chondrites, and in fact, Tafassasset closely resembles other primitive achondrites, such as Divnoe, Reid 027, and Zag (b). No equilibrated chondrite has such a coarse grained matrix, which is a typical sign for recrystallization (if I got Dr. Otto right). There were other points in Dr. Otto's argumentation that convinced me of his point of view, and his view is obviously backed up by the research that Dr. Zipfel et al performed on Tafassasset, more recently. Obviously, there is some resistance to accept the fact that this nice meteorite is no extraordinary CR - something that has to do with the self importance of certain scientists that made extraordinary claims, but failed to provide extraordinary proofs. Just my two Tafs, Norbert -Original Message- Svend wrote: J. Zipfel from the MPI in Mainz says that refractory lithophiles fractionated compared to a typical CR composition is leading to a possible classification as primitive achondrite. Does anybody know about a final classification yet? Hello Anne, Svend and List, In the Abstract issue of MAPS (vol. 37-7, July 2002, p. A155), Jutta Zipfel et al. published an abstract re: Tafassasset. In the discussion part, the authors state: The figure illustrates that both samples have compositions clearly fractionated from CI and other chondrite groups. Tafassasset has AI/Mg and Mn/Mg ratios similar to other primitve achondrites, indicating incipient partial melting involving mobilization of SiO2 (+/- A1203, CaO, etc.) -, P205- and S-rich melts. Although the bulk compositions are heterogeneous, characteristic element signatures (e.g., low Zn, Mn/Mg,depletion in refractory lithophile elements) e x c l u d e a relationship to CR chondrites and support pairing of Taf-Pa and Taf-Frei*. * Taf-Pa is the Paris material - Taf-Frei the Freiburg material Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tafassasset classification
Frank, I understand the description of the primitive achondrite...including the types you mention. From that statement in Nortons book, they are still chondrites...just overdone a bit. What line did they cross to be called achondrites? And how does it relate to Tafassasset being also called a CR7? John - Original Message - From: fcressy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Norbert Classen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Svend Buhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tafassasset classification Hello John and all, Regarding your primative achondrite question, Norton's Encyclopedia of Meteorites has a page dedicated to the subject (P. 165). He states that primative achondrites have achondrite textures but still retain something of their chondritic composition. and that they are transitional between chondrites and achondrites. As examples of primative achondrites, he uses acapulcoites, lodranites and winonaites. Hope this helps. Frank - Original Message - From: John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Norbert Classen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Svend Buhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tafassasset classification Hello All, Primitive is primitive!Help me to understand the differences please. Is the argument about where the line(s) should be drawn between a chondrite (that is really differentiated...like a 7) versus a primitive achondrite (that is not quite differentiated enough to be called a achondrite)? Is there really a 7 category and why? Are primitive achondrites now considered differentiated enough to be distinguished from a highly changed chondrite? small versus coarse grains in matrix? How is this line drawn? mineral makeup, level of glass, age, grain size/changes, etc. ? Lots of questions with this story. Alain would have something to say about all this. Ann Black, is there a position written from his corner? John - Original Message - From: Norbert Classen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Svend Buhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 2:30 PM Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Tafassasset classification Hello Bernd, Svend, Anne, and List, I discussed this subject several times with my old friend Dr. Otto, the German researcher who did the original analysis on Tafassasset (Freiburg), a stone that was originally submitted to the NomCom. as Tenere 001, a new ungrouped primitive achondrite similar to Divnoe, and the brachinites. He was more than suprised that the paired Tafassasset (Paris) has been submitted as an equilibrated CR chondrite. He gave me several reasons for his original classification of Taf- Frei as a primitive achondrite, but I can't remember them all right now (you know, I don't have a degree in mineralogy, petrology, and/ or cosmochemistry). But I remember his central argument: primitive achondrites show a more or less completely recrystallized matrix that looks entirely different from even highly equilibrated chondrites. He showed me several thin sections of various PACs, and equilibrated chondrites, and in fact, Tafassasset closely resembles other primitive achondrites, such as Divnoe, Reid 027, and Zag (b). No equilibrated chondrite has such a coarse grained matrix, which is a typical sign for recrystallization (if I got Dr. Otto right). There were other points in Dr. Otto's argumentation that convinced me of his point of view, and his view is obviously backed up by the research that Dr. Zipfel et al performed on Tafassasset, more recently. Obviously, there is some resistance to accept the fact that this nice meteorite is no extraordinary CR - something that has to do with the self importance of certain scientists that made extraordinary claims, but failed to provide extraordinary proofs. Just my two Tafs, Norbert -Original Message- Svend wrote: J. Zipfel from the MPI in Mainz says that refractory lithophiles fractionated compared to a typical CR composition is leading to a possible classification as primitive achondrite. Does anybody know about a final classification yet? Hello Anne, Svend and List, In the Abstract issue of MAPS (vol. 37-7, July 2002, p. A155), Jutta Zipfel et al. published an abstract re: Tafassasset. In the discussion part, the authors state: The figure illustrates that both samples have compositions clearly fractionated from CI and other chondrite groups. Tafassasset has AI/Mg and Mn/Mg ratios similar to other primitve achondrites, indicating incipient partial melting
Re: [meteorite-list] One year ago
Bernd, Matteo and Brothers and Sisters of this list, One year ago our country was savagely and cowardly attacked. It was my first experience of a so-called war that hit me close to home. I did not lose a family member or friend, but I cried just the same. Living here in the middle of the 3 sites of the crashes was scary. The horrors we all witnessed were reminders to me of my grandfather's stories of the trench battles, and the great pain and suffering of WW 1. He left us last November at 106. He always felt war was such a waste, but yet he was very patriotic and supported our countries efforts to stop others from creating such terror and grief. My father's stories of WW 2 were just as disturbing...he even had horrific pictures that a friend of his took of the concentration camps. Vietnam is a nightmare for many. All countires involved in these wars can attest to the horror. People can be so cruel. Let us not forget that fateful day last year. We all have to be diligent in our daily lives, and possibly one day have to pay the great sacrifice to stop the evil. I am ready if such an occurrence would present itself. John Reading, PA USA - Original Message - From: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] One year ago One year ago, at about four o'clock in the afternoon, I went online to download that day's posts. What I found was this: Not meteorite related / Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:25:21 -0500 For those of you who haven't heard yet America has been attacked. This makes the Oklahoma bombing look like child's play. A plane has hit the Pentagon and one plane has hit each of the World Trade Center towers. One of the towers has collapsed. According to some news reports up to three of our commercial planes have been hijacked as well. Rhett Bourland I translated Rhett's words for my wife and she was asking me if I was aware of what I was translating. I said yes I was. Today I know I was not. Soon after, my daughter and my son-in-law arrived and we had to watch the abominable, nightmarish scenario that was unfolding before our eyes. I thought that I had finally overcome those woeful moments but while I was watching again one of those TV documentaries tonight about the coward attack on innocent people of every creed and every race, about this barbaric attack on our principles of freedom and human dignity, I realized that I would never be able to forget. There is no excuse, there is no justification, and there is no need to tell me it all happened because ... I grew up in post-war Germany, I saw black Americans give me Cadbury chocolate or chewing gum and candy and I still see their shining white teeth and the friendly expressions on their faces, I still remember GI's whom a 5-year-old Bernd asked in broken English: Have you money, Mister? And more often than not, they gave me 50 Pfennigs or even 1 German Mark, a huge amount of money in those days after WWII, these are the things I still cherish in my heart and so my heart goes out to those who lost loved ones on September 11, my heart goes out to America, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Help A Brother Out - Terminated
Rob, So that we can stay in touch with your efforts, tell us (me) where and how to keep up with the listings on Yahoo. I am not familiar with the Yahoo list. As for easy money, well it is not easy for most of us, especially in the time of need. Let us be kind and not attack one another. If one cannot afford to buy a given piece, then so be it. Rob's method of keeping things moving right into Ebay is appropriate. Ease up on the criticism. John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mark Miconi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Help A Brother Out - Terminated As I said at the onset, and I am a man of my word, I am stopping the Help A Brother Out thread. Easy money? How about a tremendous cut in one's passion and a bunch of people busting their asses to help out. ONE of our 2 Mastiffs... sorry about your dog Mark, nice comparison. May your family never take ill and may you never be in need of my help. I am going to move this to one of the other lists so Metcent is not the posting site anymore. So, tonight I will post to the Yahoo meteorite lists and you can get them that way. Thanks Rob Wesel Doubting the music makers..and the dreamers right now. NOW I am beginning to see a trend hereMAYBE I should get in on it before all the EASY money is gone! ONE of our 2 Mastiffs is ill and I just had to cough up over $400.00 to pay to get him well. He is a treasured member of our family as well as providing very significant security for our home and guards my small but important meteorite collection. It would be nice if everyone would log on to Ebay and help us out by buying one of the fine collectibles we have for sale. TREATING a 188 pound Mastiff is expensive! REALLY now is this going to be happening on a regular basis? Steve my sympathies for your loss but it somehow does not seem right that on the heels of one tragedy sparked sale we now have anotherWhere will it end? Can't this stay a list for discussion? Why does someones failure to plan for the future constitute a need for the members of this list to suddenly drop everything and buy something. I am truly sorry to hear of your loss but REALLY do not want to constantly see SALES of collections due to someones tragediesPRETTY soon it will be a car with a blown engine, or a life saving organ transplant...with little or no way to substantiate whether the tragedy is genuine, not that any list member would do that. Just my heartless 2 cents Mark M. - Original Message - From: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:17 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] HELP PLEASE!!! Godd morning all. I know, I'll probably be spammed, jammed, and dammed for this but I do not care. I know I recently sent to the list that I had a family emergency come up, and that I decided to put up some of my nicer meteorites forsale. Well you know what they are. I just want to let you know that my mother-in-law died suddenly and that she has no insurance for a buriel. She is also a widow. We can pay for half of the buriel, but we cannot afford the other half. So I am calling out to you all, the great meteorite collecters of the world, if you can help me out, i'd appreciate it. You can go to my website and then go to my forsale page and see what is forsale. What ever you buy, I'll ship and pay insurance world wide!!! Thanks for letting me get this off. steve = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 The Midwest Meteorite Collector! Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bessey comment
Ron and associates, Greetings. First off, I know you have along distinguished career in this arena and I wish to not offend you and others who have given so much to this great interest of many. My frustration is the long list of Sahara and NWA numbers that do not have official classifications including weights, etc. As Mark Mafer suggested there must be ways to help this process out by using a simpler method of classification for ordinary chondrites. It would not be the full blown method, butareduced method that at least would label/categorize many of the unknowns. Is that possible? Make it a special label as "probable" or something like that. I can make guesses, but I'm sure my accuracy would be poor. I believe Dean when he says he has triedwith difficulty to get classifications. Maybe at this point(due to frustration) he is just passing the burden on to others to keep his business going. Isit a lack of effort or is there one big roadblock, that only opens for the achondrites and the #3 chondrites. I don't know...but what I do know is that the list ofofficial meteorites is short compared to the amount of material outthere. As for the article, yes I read it this week and it sounds very simple to get a #. Who would someone like mecontact, andwhatare the odds of getting a classification? A number withoutofficial (even if probable) classification is nothelpful in my opinion. I mean if I go to the trouble of sending in something, only to end up with a number...what is the point?I can label it I guess. I will try myself in near future to get a classification on an unknown...and report back with my experience. Thanx Ron for your interest, John - Original Message - - Original Message - From: meteorite1.com To: John Divelbiss ; Bernd Pauli HD ; Radosevich, Dave Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bessey comment John Divelbiss wrote: I read an article written in May by fellow list member Norbert Classen thatdiscusses this issue from another field collectors point of view. I totallyagree and hope others will come forward to help this situation out. The linkis http://www.meteorite.fr/en/news/feature.htm You will want to see my article in the Sept. 2002 METEORITE TIMES (under the heading Meteorites 101) at http://www.meteoritetimes.com/current_issue/index.htm re: Update on NWA Classificationswith comments from Dr. Jutta Zipfel from the NomCom. This information is provided as a number of persons have indicated an interest in hearing from the NomCom regarding this matter. RonR. N. HartmanMETEORITES and MEMBRANE SUSPENSION BOXES [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.meteorite1.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.membranebox.com Mailing address:The R. N. Hartman Collection METEORITESP.O. Box 94Walnut, CA 91788-0094 (U.S.) - Original Message - From: John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Radosevich, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bessey comment Bernd, Dave and list, I concur with the comments to date. But I thought it really wasn't meteorite until the "council" says it is? For now it is just a rock, right. My gut tells me that science as a whole is missing the boat with the NWA's...someday the negative positions taken during these times over the lack information like location, particulars of find, etc. will be a mistake that can't be fixed. I know this subject has had a lot of press, but from a simpletons point of view the treatment of the most NWA's not being legitimate is wrong. I have no clue as to the fix(es) for the problems perceived, but to "putoff or shun" the likes of Dean and others to get classifications done in a timely matter is a mistake. Some dealers have direct connections that make this less of a problem...but they are in the minority I would think. A concerted effort to improve all aspects of this problem, including the availability of labs capable of doing such work should be done before we lose the bulk of potential information on these great rocks. It is late in the game, but not too late I would hope. There are many great pieces out here that are orphaned at this point...with owners wanting to know what it is. Protesting not to buy or acknowledge this so called junk only reinforces this stubborn position. Those doing so are adding to the thick crust of the objectors...limiting science instead of improving it. From the sounds of it, fixing the problems (some real, some perceived due to association) in Morocco are probably the hardest to resolve...and they may never be. But once the rocks are in hand, why can't the community come t
Re: [meteorite-list] Bessey comment
Bernd, Dave and list, I concur with the comments to date. But I thought it really wasn't meteorite until the council says it is? For now it is just a rock, right. My gut tells me that science as a whole is missing the boat with the NWA's...someday the negative positions taken during these times over the lack information like location, particulars of find, etc. will be a mistake that can't be fixed. I know this subject has had a lot of press, but from a simpletons point of view the treatment of the most NWA's not being legitimate is wrong. I have no clue as to the fix(es) for the problems perceived, but to putoff or shun the likes of Dean and others to get classifications done in a timely matter is a mistake. Some dealers have direct connections that make this less of a problem...but they are in the minority I would think. A concerted effort to improve all aspects of this problem, including the availability of labs capable of doing such work should be done before we lose the bulk of potential information on these great rocks. It is late in the game, but not too late I would hope. There are many great pieces out here that are orphaned at this point...with owners wanting to know what it is. Protesting not to buy or acknowledge this so called junk only reinforces this stubborn position. Those doing so are adding to the thick crust of the objectors...limiting science instead of improving it. From the sounds of it, fixing the problems (some real, some perceived due to association) in Morocco are probably the hardest to resolve...and they may never be. But once the rocks are in hand, why can't the community come to grips with helping all of us with the classification process. This is my two cents. I am newbie to all this, collecting only for three years. I'm sure many smart people out there have more insight. But when you break it down in my mind, the general treatment of NWA's (and other African meteorites) is WRONG! I read an article written in May by fellow list member Norbert Classen that discusses this issue from another field collectors point of view. I totally agree and hope others will come forward to help this situation out. The link is http://www.meteorite.fr/en/news/feature.htm Thanx for your time and forgive me if you are offended, John Divelbiss (BL #33) IMCA2006 PS If no one responds, that's OK with me...it has happened before. PSS Dean, keep trying for all of us. - Original Message - From: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Radosevich, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 4:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bessey comment An enthusiastic Dave wrote: If this is the worst of the bunch then the other 39 folks got really really nice specimens. My BL15 is way better than the photo. Mine has it all. It's oriented and shows flow lines, rollover edge, and plenty of thumb prints. A personal thanks to Dean Bessey for bringing this truly nice NWA to all of us (40). Hi Dave, BL-owners and List, Welcome to the BL-Club :-) Your description says it all! Congrats on this breathtaking specimen. I wanted to buy this one because of its relatively low weight (which saves money) but didn't like the horizontal scar. Oh, well ... I normally dont buy NWA's for reasons we have shared on this list. They are meteorites without a pedigree ... but does beauty need a pedigree? They are meteorites. They have come from the same places as their decent brethren w i t h a pedigree! My two Euro-cents! Best regards, Bernd (BL #18) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Beginner Questions on Meteorite Classification
Mark, If you look hard you will find dozens of decent sites that will help one understand meteorites alot better. Also, Nortons new book goes alot further than Rocks From Space, and it is filled with colored pictures demonstrating the differences in their appearance. It is called The Cambridge Encylcopedia of Meteorites, and is highly recommended. Another very in depth book is Meteorites and Their Parent Planets by Harry McSween, Jr. To read it and understand (most of) it takes great patience and focus...good luck. Another interesting (online) source of information and pictures is the Dweir Studies. The link to it is below. There are other books, sites that others may refer you to that are helpful. http://www.geocities.com/~dweir/ Have fun...it takes awhile to get the full depth. I've studied it quitea bit and I still get turned around on ideas and concepts. John - Original Message - From: Mark Morawski To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 9:33 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Beginner Questions on Meteorite Classification I am a beginning collector and have read Norton's Rocks from space. I am wondering if there is any online definition of the currently used classification system as it differs from the system described by Norton. Specifically when a meteor is classified as a H, L or LL of 3.X with a weathering of Y and a shock rating of Z. Where would one find the definition of X, Y and Z? Second question, are there any online photographs that show the comparision of 4, 5, and 6. I am a big fan of unclassified NWA's and would like to get some feel for what these meteors are? Last question if I wanted to learn more about the technical side of the hobby, what would be good reading material on or off line. I am looking to go alot deeper than Norton. Thanks All -Mark-
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Ron 1
Tom, The pictures are certainly not convincing on website. Looks like a "pipe dream". But itlooks like others are saying the same thing, by the intro on a couple webpages.I only know about what kind of meteorites that have been determined to date. This does not look like any of them. If it is real, it will be recognized in time. Thanx forcurious information. One more opinion, John Divelbiss IMCA 2006 - Original Message - From: James_TOM Knudson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:44 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Ron 1 Have you list people read this? You should! Tomhttp://www.marslife.com/marsrock/dearron3.htm Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here
[meteorite-list] impact melts and mesosiderites
Hello all, I want to ask the group their opinion on whether they agree with the latest book from Norton that places mesosiderites in the achondrite section, rather than the stony-iron section of the book. As I understand it, he "suggests" that mesosiderites are merely impact melts of the howardite/eucrite parent body with an iron body. Similar to H and L impact melts. Personally, I agree with this concept after comparingChico (L6 IMB), Sahara98362 (H6 IMB) and the new Gao (b) (H5? IMB) with slices of mesosiderites Vaca Muerta and Ethersville. Vaca Muerta looks like the H and L IMB's, while the Ethersville I have has larger pockets of metal than the others...but similar to some of "normal"Gao I have. Willmesosiderites one day be renamed Howarditeimpact melts or Eucrite impact melts? I may be going too fast here, but the suggestion in the Norton book leads a novice like me down that path. Wondering??? John Divelbiss Reading, PA IMCA 2006
Re: [meteorite-list] Mesosiderite Biography
Rob, Thanx Rob...I'll have to read Rubin's book one day. Sounds like the molten body aspect plays important role in this special class of meteorites. John - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 8:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mesosiderite Biography Hi All, Rubin has an entire chapter in his book devoted to mesosiderites: Mesosiderites: Biography of a Shocked and Melted Asteroid. He argues that there is a single mesosiderite parent body, that it is located in the inner part of the asteroid belt, and that it is a differentiated body. Mesosiderites were created by a low-velocity impact ( 1 km/sec) of a metallic, largely molten body with the basaltic crust of this differentiated asteroid, very early in the asteroid's history. Rubin's book, _Disturbing the Solar System_ goes into a lot more detail about the complicated history of the mesosiderites' parent body. --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Springfield Show this weekend!
List, I was at the Springfield Show this past Friday. Being my first show, I was very interested in seeing some nice material first hand. The balance of meteorites available to the rest of the show's materials was very small, but we were not without great representation of dealers, collectors and ofcourse the rocks. At the invite of fellow collectors, Charlie Devine and Gary Swanson from Rhode Island, I traveled the 6 + hours from PA in anticipation. My first encounter when the doors opened was with thehumble Alain Carion. He was very interested in discussing and selling his beautiful selection of meteorites and impactite. Getting my copy of his book signedwas a treat.I ended up getting some his Tafassasset, a CR equilibrated to a6 or 7, so the chondrite believers say. However, he mentioned that others argue it is primative (achondrite). But Alain assured us thatit was primative, as in a chondrite. Awonderful transition type...one of a kind I believe ? I also picked up a fragment of the microtektite material from Haiti...very nice. Alain, thank you for your time (Ann Black, please let him know if you would). Others there included Geoff Cintron from Island Meteorites. Geoff had some awesome pieces for sale and a nice chunk of Murchinson was my prize. Thanx for the opportunity, and to be able to hold and look at some choice material. Geoff carries the flag well. The other main dealer was Serg from Comet Meteorite Shop who have some great stuff, including the Dhofar lunars and shergottites. The NWA 470 (?) was one I was interested in, their CH...but I came up short. Maybe someday. Thanx for the look see Serg. A fair amount of Sikhote Alin's were seen at several stands, and some of the newer Campos were available from the field collectors. It would be nice to see more dealers next year. Maybe more interest and feedback will bring them. Well thanx to Charlie and Gary for their interest in me. It was a great day. We should go to Denver, then to Tuscon, then to the strewn fields ofnow I'm dreaming. Good show...recommended to all...especially here in the east. (Sunday is the last day) Regards, John Divelbiss IMCA 2006 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 8:36 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Springfield Show this weekend! East Coast Gem, Mineral Fossil ShowAug. 9-11, 2002Held annually in the air-conditioned Better Living Center at the Eastern States Exposition, 1305 Memorial Drive, West Springfield, MA 01089. Show Hours: 10am-7pm Fri-Sat, 10am-5pm Sun.Over 180 dealers from all over the U.S. and abroad, offering a variety of items related to earth sciences. Door prizes, guest speakers, museum quality exhibits, gold panning, and a large wholesale section. Plenty of free parking. Air conditioned hall. Largest wholesale section in the East! 2002 show theme will be The Collection of Jim Dawn Minette.Admission is $6/adult, $5/senior or student, 12 under is free if with an adult. Contact Martin Zinn Expositions.
Re: [meteorite-list] Posted on Sci.astro.amateur what is it?
Tom, Looks like a slag from a smelting process. Probably the lighter material from the top of the process. If you see that someone buys it, I can find some more for them here in PA. The hills are full of it. The magnetic property is probably due to the rock being melted having magnetite in it. I once thought that some slag I found was possibly a meteorite. It had chondrules, crust, the works...so I thought. That experience sent me into the world of studying and collecting rocks from space. I encourage any of these people to learn the real story about what meteorites look like. Michael Casper and Robert Haag looked at it for me...both encounters were encouraging enough to learn the truth. We should do the same for these finders/sellers of meteorwrongs. John Divelbiss Reading, PA IMCA 2006 PS Thanx again to Micheal and Robert if you are out there...you showed great patience back then with such a neophyte - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:49 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Posted on Sci.astro.amateur what is it? Saw this today on the sci.astro.amateur newsgroup. What is it? I don't believe it's a meteorite due to the large pockets in it. They say it's magnetic. Me thinks it's another meteor-wrong. http://www.rentadj.com/meteorite.htm Regards, Tom Randall IMCA#6170 -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] my new website
Steve, All I get is a Lycos page that says the webpage could not be found. Good luck with you venture. John Divelbiss - Original Message - From: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 8:11 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] my new website Hi again list. I think I fixed my link to my website. again it is http://www.stormbringer60120.tripod.com this should get you to my site. Hopefully! Let me know = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 The Midwest Meteorite Collector! Collecting Meteorites since,June, 1999!!! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Posted on Sci.astro.amateur what is it?
Tom, I went ahead and emailed the guy. Encouraging him to find out why it is not a meteorite by looking at websites or purchasing a book...such as Norton's two. John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:49 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Posted on Sci.astro.amateur what is it? Saw this today on the sci.astro.amateur newsgroup. What is it? I don't believe it's a meteorite due to the large pockets in it. They say it's magnetic. Me thinks it's another meteor-wrong. http://www.rentadj.com/meteorite.htm Regards, Tom Randall IMCA#6170 -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Posted on Sci.astro.amateur what is it?
Tom, Way to go...the guy just emailed me and said he looked at some meteorite information and was convinced that the piece was not one. He thanked me for my email. I had told him a fellow collector had spotted his piece on a website. I think we all can learn a lesson here. Lets get the word out when we can to keep the meteorwrongs from turning someone off. Case closed on this one. John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:49 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Posted on Sci.astro.amateur what is it? Saw this today on the sci.astro.amateur newsgroup. What is it? I don't believe it's a meteorite due to the large pockets in it. They say it's magnetic. Me thinks it's another meteor-wrong. http://www.rentadj.com/meteorite.htm Regards, Tom Randall IMCA#6170 -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA889
Adam, Thanx for response. Now that's two votes for 787, 869 and 900 pairings. As far as 904 goes...it does look similar, and it does have melt inclusions, like others. But the diogenite (which I have not seen or heard of in others, yet) and the crust that you said is just plain ugly, make them different in at least two ways. I know the crust is ugly because I have a nice end piece. With those two items in mind I'll agree that 904 is not paired with the others. But again it is only my opinion here agreeing with you. John Divelbiss - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 12:53 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA889 Dear List members, I have been asked the status of NWA 904 and how it compares to NWA 869, 900 ect.. This is what we have observed so far: A.) The black clasts are impact melt areas not carbonaceous. B.) It appears to be a regolith breccia. C.) Although the chondrules vary in crispness from type 3 to 6 most of them are type 5. D.) The crust is totally different than 869 and 900, is not as fresh and has a rather odd warty texture. F.) The green diogenite looking clasts are achondritic. G.) NWA 904 has different zones which show different degrees of weathering and petrologic type. H.) I have a sample of NWA 869 and have seen hundreds of kilos of it at the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show and it is not paired with NWA 904. I.) NWA 869 looks as if it might be paired to NWA 787, a very nice looking L6. J.) NWA 869 has had three different classifications L4, L5 and L6. I guess it depends on the type samples that were provided to the laboratories. I do not blame the research labs because most dealers only deposit a 20 gram type sample. Sometimes this amount of material is not enough to cross the different petrologic boundaries and thus you can get many classifications for the same meteorite. Some dealers only send in a portion which they think will get the best classification, sharp chondrules, less weathering etc.. K.) Although NWA 900 has black clasts it does not display the zoning of NWA 904, has no green clasts and the weathering is consistent throughout the stone. L.) In my opinion NWA 787, 869 and 900 are paired. I have not seen NWA 995 so I cannot comment on its pairing status. If we had more time we would do a bulk analysis on each of these to once and for all settle the pairing question. Unfortunately the Microprobe we lease is booked until September. We are working on some very exciting material that we are hoping to announce by then. I remember a time when scientist used scramble at the opportunity to study even ordinary chondrites. Wishing everybody the best, Adam Hupe - Original Message - From: John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; rochette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA889 Pierre and Rob, Thank you for responses about NWA 900 and 995. Melt, and not carbonacous for 900...that is cool too...since I really like melts. We all look forward to more information on these. (Matteo...do you still think you have seen achondrite clasts?...in another slice maybe? Question...has anyone suggested the same(achondrite clasts) for 869? That, I have not heard of. Greg and Adam...are you out there? What is the status on the collection in a slice, or NWA 904? Now I'm (pretty) sure there are achondrite clasts in the 904 slice I have...but if I've learned anything is that we should wait for the analysis. John PS Side note...my thin section of 869 from Jeff Rowell looks like I have an L3+ something clast in a L5 or L6 matrix. Probably the slice is a brecciated chunk of L6 clast with a chunk of L3+ matrix in the middle. See how we get turned around. (Al...I used criteria 7 and 8 from page 87 of the Norton Encyclopedia to come up with my own classification). This is kind of fun...but I'll stick to engineering. PSS Dean...by the way, you do have the best buy out there! - Original Message - From: rochette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:24 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA889 Dear list several pieces from Matteo that were analysed carefully (microprobe, and so on) revealed that the clasts are not exotic (i.e. carbonaceous or achondritic) but just L6: black is impact melt and gray is moderately shocked, the matrix being L3.8. It remains to be demonstrated that Matteo's pieces are really paired with Dean's. The pictures are not so similar Pierre __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA889
Pierre and Rob, Thank you for responses about NWA 900 and 995. Melt, and not carbonacous for 900...that is cool too...since I really like melts. We all look forward to more information on these. (Matteo...do you still think you have seen achondrite clasts?...in another slice maybe? Question...has anyone suggested the same(achondrite clasts) for 869? That, I have not heard of. Greg and Adam...are you out there? What is the status on the collection in a slice, or NWA 904? Now I'm (pretty) sure there are achondrite clasts in the 904 slice I have...but if I've learned anything is that we should wait for the analysis. John PS Side note...my thin section of 869 from Jeff Rowell looks like I have an L3+ something clast in a L5 or L6 matrix. Probably the slice is a brecciated chunk of L6 clast with a chunk of L3+ matrix in the middle. See how we get turned around. (Al...I used criteria 7 and 8 from page 87 of the Norton Encyclopedia to come up with my own classification). This is kind of fun...but I'll stick to engineering. PSS Dean...by the way, you do have the best buy out there! - Original Message - From: rochette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:24 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA889 Dear list several pieces from Matteo that were analysed carefully (microprobe, and so on) revealed that the clasts are not exotic (i.e. carbonaceous or achondritic) but just L6: black is impact melt and gray is moderately shocked, the matrix being L3.8. It remains to be demonstrated that Matteo's pieces are really paired with Dean's. The pictures are not so similar Pierre __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] nwa869
Hi Al and list, Thank you again for being attentive to my ramblings. You and countless others are close to, and more informed of the process and the expertise given to the analysis of meteorites. I did not mean to trivialize this process...and if I did offend anyone, I'm sorry. My nature, being a mechanical consulting engineer, is to evaluate all situations with a bit of skepticism and caution. It comes through on occasion with my meteorite collection. So does my ignorance on the subject, but I'm learning. As far as looks go when evaluating a particular piece, or when comparing one to another...well that's all I've got, and the word of the seller and it's evaluator. In the case the NWA's, the collection process as you mentioned makes the identification process that much harder to be sure of a given class/type. In the case of 869 and all its brother and sister #'s...I would like to see a concerted effort to nail this one down. The wonderful 900 slices from Matteo deserve it, along with the unique 869 pieces Dean and Mark have seen and offered with nice C clasts and brecciation, the same for 995 slices sold last winter, and let us not forget the beautiful slices of 904 and others (787 I believe) from the Hupes. All of these, and others as Matteo suggested deserve an opinion of are they from the same fall or source?. I would appreciate it, and I'm sure many others would also. How it would get done is a mystery to me. Maybe it could be project for a university to study and comment on. How about it Ron? Well I'm going to stop embarrassing myself on this one. Thanx all for reading. Any identification information on any of the mentioned #'s would be appreciated along the way. Thanx in advance. John - Original Message - From: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Matteo Chinellato [EMAIL PROTECTED]; dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] nwa869 Hi John, Probably in the past when ordinary chondrites were classified by oxidized iron to iron metal percentages there was no doubt room for more error. Today using the microprobe for chemical analysis, scientists are looking at about ten different items and trace chemical signatures to distinguish the minute variation of the common chondrites. To further help this out and isolate it more, the shock metamorphism is also taken into consideration. Although no process is perfect I think there is a pretty good handle on being able to distinguish individual falls these days using the processes stated. Also weathering comes into play on these. With that said, I would think the bigger problem on a fall coming out of the Sahara desert is whether some nomad decided to throw (or perhaps the rocks just get mixed up in camel transit) into the lot and so we have a mixture of different falls stated to be from one fall. As with meteorite dealers it is a matter of trust on whom you are dealing with and if they are being honest with you or not. This isn't meant to be a grind to those going over there an collecting these items. I don't think it is always a good idea to go by looks on meteorites (I have many in my collection that are similar in appearance but from discrete falls and finds) and until a detail analysis is done then it is really hard to say. As a rule with time when these meteorites are looked at they may refine the classification. With the break up of Hebe and back into a rubble pile we sample a variation of classes in a single chondrite sometimes. I trust the researchers to be able to distinguish the bulk matrix of these finds and produce a accurate classification. It is to their own advantage when they do research on these to know the accuracy of classification on the meteorites they are dealing with so they don't go the wrong direction on understanding them. All my best! --AL John Divelbiss wrote: I just looked at the group I have and quite frankly it is not easy to say they are different materials. Even under the scope. Yet I see the reports of L4 or L5 for NWA 869, L6 for 787, now L3.4/4 for 900, and similar suspicions for 995 (not 905 that I listed in earlier message). Thin sections of each one may help...but as Dean has stated, his section may have thrown off the evaluation of his sample relative to its true petrologic type. All this makes me wonder about the process and accuracy of identifying a particular fall or find. As I understand it, the boundaries between H's and L's can be somewhat blurred when metal and iron contents are in the transition percentage levels. All the more bewildering. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] nwa869
Hello List, I'm probably wrong here, so please help me out here. Lets get it out open for everyone...which ones are we talking about here that maybe paired with 869. I've been wondering about this group for awhile now. NWA 869 paired with NWA 900 ? NWA 904 ? NWA 905 ? Are there others that might match up? At times, I think NWA 787 (L6) looks like a close (differentiated) cousin to 869. Could a large enough meteor have all these petrological possibilities within different zones of the original large mass (prior to breaking up)... in theory I suppose. One piece looking like an L5 or L6, and another L3/4.4 (Matteo is this correct for yours...and which NWA # of yours is it?) Zag comes to mind being a H3-6. Obviously this mean that some chondrules are 3's and others are differentiated all the way to 6. Can you see these differences in one slice or is it different from piece to piece? Could that the same for 869 and its brothers? By the way...I have pieces (NWA's) of all the above, and I think each one is very nice material and at first glance they look about the same. Crusts are slightly different in some cases...but could that be from the desert effects in different locales? Thanx for reading, John Divelbiss - Original Message - From: Matteo Chinellato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] nwa869 Hello all Sorry but I have a new classification for this type of chondrite from the pieces I have sent for analysis, is L3/4.4 Regards Matteo --- dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know the tkw for nwa869? Thanks, Rex I had just over 500 kilos and I have another 70 kilos in morocco so I went through around 600 kilos of NWA869 myself. I have 50 or 60 kilos here now and so I still have well over 100 kilos from the original 600 that I originally had. Other dealers have more including some that are obviously from the same fall but sold as something different because of a belief that some samples are much better than the L5 classification that will appear in the meteoritical bulletin. The inclusion like things are fairly rare so I can see it being missed during classification if the sample that was used to make the thin section never had one of the inclusions. Look at this photo: http://www.meteoriteshop.com/aa-nwa869b.jpg The bottom half is typical NWA869 but the top part looks like a totally different meteorite. This one dont show it but many samples have what appear to be black or whitish inclusions. I am going travelling next week but I can send a kilo of uncut specimens to anybody who paypals me $200 over the weekend. For $230 I will cut the kilo of specimens in two or for $300 a kilo I will cut you 40 to 60 gram (On Average) slices (And of course the two endpieces per stone). No guarantees of anything unusual but I will send you a photo of the uncut specimens as they looked before I cut them so that I cant cherry pick them and decide after I cut them which ones to send you - so you would have as much a chance to get the inclusion looking things as if you cut them yourself. Just paypal me if you want them as I have plenty to fill any orders. I will cover postage to the US (which cost $11) but other countries add $15 for postage (Which cost about $26 to $28 so I am getting the same price no matter where they are being sent) Cheers DEAN _ You dont have to go to NASA to get a Rock from outer space. Or even from the Planet Mars or the Moon. You just have to visit the Meteorite Shop. www.meteoriteshop.com _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] nwa869
Al, Your point is well taken on the source aspect of this discussion. As with any type, no matter the name or number assigned to it...there is good chance they are from the same asteroid. HED's from Vesta, etc. I just looked at the group I have and quite frankly it is not easy to say they are different materials. Even under the scope. Yet I see the reports of L4 or L5 for NWA 869, L6 for 787, now L3.4/4 for 900, and similar suspicions for 995 (not 905 that I listed in earlier message). Thin sections of each one may help...but as Dean has stated, his section may have thrown off the evaluation of his sample relative to its true petrologic type. All this makes me wonder about the process and accuracy of identifying a particular fall or find. As I understand it, the boundaries between H's and L's can be somewhat blurred when metal and iron contents are in the transition percentage levels. All the more bewildering. I'm glad I'm not assigning these things. How does one know when he or she has got it right? Personally I'm going like them all for being rocks from space. With that in mind is seems silly to argue between one fall or # versus another with mine is different than yours... when at first look they do not appear to be any different. I will however be cautious of paying too much for so called petrological type of 3's and 4's when it isn't obvious. I'll stick with do I like it or want it or not, relative to the price it is offered at ?. Thanx again Al for response, John Divelbiss - Original Message - From: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: John Divelbiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Matteo Chinellato [EMAIL PROTECTED]; dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] nwa869 Hi John and all, Many of the parent bodies have yet to be identify to the many of the meteorites we have accumulated here on Earth. However there are some suspect parent bodies which have been identified by spectral matches to the asteroids and meteorites. One such match is asteroid Hebe for the H type chondrites. It is obvious from looking at Hebe's surface that it has a variation in spectra as the asteroid rotates representing the different metamorphism (classes) we see from the change in olivine to pyroxene ratio. No doubt the asteroid had a large enough impact at one time to knock it apart allowing the more differentiated classes to show up on the outside, and some of the outer part of the asteroid became buried in the interior as it reassembled into a rubble pile asteroid. It isn't uncommon for H type chondrites to have brecciation of various different classes all in one meteorite. A good example of this is Zag (H3-6) and Noblesville, Indiana an H4 chondrite with H6 clasts. Probably why we get so many of the H type chondrite material now is we are living at a time when the results of the impacts which have been migrating to us over the eons have finally made their way to fall at a constant rate. If we lived in a different time many years from now or very long ago then perhaps and most likely we would sample some other type of meteorite falls. Perhaps it wouldn't be uncommon for some rare type meteorite (to us) to fall at a regular more consistent rate. How does this tie into NWA 869. As stated earlier we don't know all of the parent bodies yet (a good reason for funding to NASA to build a craft to visit as many asteroids as we can) However there is one asteroid of about 7 km in diameter that resides in the main belt and may be related to the L type chondrites and a possible parent body though a very weak link. Asteroid 3628 Boznemcova exhibits spectral qualities to the L's and LL's. It is obviously too small to be a complete asteroid and has been suggested it is a fragment of a much larger asteroid. Perhaps this might be what is left of the NWA 869 and other L type meteorites and why we sample a steady rate of L type chondrites. Beside these parent bodies, we are fairly sure of the Vesta and HED type meteorite connections as well as the Martian (SNC), and lunar meteorite to Moon connections. It's what makes reading about and research on meteorites so exciting and trying to figure out all of the complicated puzzles they present to us. --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which meteorite is real - top or bottom?
Tim, I'll guess the bottom one is a real meteorite. Maybe a 1947 SA? The top specimen looks too roundish. Hematite ore or something like it? Hey...50/50 chance. John Divelbiss IMCA #2006 PS The 102 F (in the shade) we had here in Eastern Pennsylvania yesterday was not a dry heat. WOW! At least we finally got a break today...below 90 F. Hope all of you out West get a break soon. And hopefully it gets above 70 F for you guys in Europe. Take care all. - Original Message - From: Tim Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 2:06 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Which meteorite is real - top or bottom? Hello, Which one do you think is real? The top or the bottom. http://www.meteorman.org/wrong_or_right.htm I will e-mail with the results this weekend, place your vote. Happy 4th of July. Tim Heitz __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Interesting meteorites- Portales and Sahara 98362
To answer one of my own questions...I can offer this...impact melts are just what the name suggests, two materials that have collided, melted and cooled together. Probably on or near the surface??? Portales being from a "deep" region, is a combination of two materials that were joined by shock and pressure injection(of metal into stone). Temperature must not been a major factor for the depth. Could a Portales and a Sahara 98362 have formed in the same type of collision? I would like more input on the particulars of 98362, if possible. John Divelbiss - Original Message - From: John Divelbiss To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 11:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Interesting meteorites- Portales and Sahara 98362 Hello all, The list has recently discussed the Portales Valley meteorite with more to be said I'm sure. I have a wonderfulpiece that has a nice mix of metal vein and stone...including a few large chondrulesright next to a metal vein. Very strange...you would think such an impact would alter the stone greatly...but it doesn't look like it at first glance. Also the crust over the metal portion is black and not thick. The crust over the stone portion is similar but has the look of having more minerals in it. With my small 5g piece, I cannot make too many observations. That brings me to a different meteorite. It is Sahara 98362, which is supposedly a H6, impact melt breccia (IMB). My first question is"Has it been thoroughly studied, and where can I find results?" The second issue...what is difference between animpact melt and what happended to the Portales stone material?One hit by stone and the other hit by an iron? It must be more than that, because the 98362 material is glass-like when viewing a fractured surface. It is loaded with metal. I seen no other meteorite like it. It looks almost like the sulphur slag that has been discussed lately. Help...will someone please provide more insight into this very strange meteorite? Thanx in advance, John Divelbiss
[meteorite-list] Interesting meteorites- Portales and Sahara 98362
Hello all, The list has recently discussed the Portales Valley meteorite with more to be said I'm sure. I have a wonderfulpiece that has a nice mix of metal vein and stone...including a few large chondrulesright next to a metal vein. Very strange...you would think such an impact would alter the stone greatly...but it doesn't look like it at first glance. Also the crust over the metal portion is black and not thick. The crust over the stone portion is similar but has the look of having more minerals in it. With my small 5g piece, I cannot make too many observations. That brings me to a different meteorite. It is Sahara 98362, which is supposedly a H6, impact melt breccia (IMB). My first question is"Has it been thoroughly studied, and where can I find results?" The second issue...what is difference between animpact melt and what happended to the Portales stone material?One hit by stone and the other hit by an iron? It must be more than that, because the 98362 material is glass-like when viewing a fractured surface. It is loaded with metal. I seen no other meteorite like it. It looks almost like the sulphur slag that has been discussed lately. Help...will someone please provide more insight into this very strange meteorite? Thanx in advance, John Divelbiss
[meteorite-list] African meteorites
Hello All, Being my first week on "the list", I'll give you all my take on why "African Meteorites are cool because." great pieces of LUNAs SNCs CRs HEDs LLs COs Rs and the occasional unclassified individual (that could be one of above if I chose to cut it!) ...all adorn my collection without breaking the bank. It has been a great time to collect during the past couple years. The African meteorties have been a blessingto the common working man/collector. Enjoy them, JohnDivelbiss
