[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2019 News
Dear Meteorite experts, lovers, hunters, collectors, MetList & IMCA friends, Please find here down full info and some rules regarding the "Ensisheim Meteorite 2019". Hopefully you receive this in time. Welcome for questions or comments. All registrations and pre-registrations will, from now on, be considererd and answered. Best ragards to all, Zelimir “ENSISHEIM METEORITE 2019” show news (March 26, 2019) Dear meteorite friends, members of IMCA & Meteorite-Central List, Please find here down information about “Ensisheim-Meteorite 2019”, the 20th show edition. - SHOW SATES AND ENTRANCE: This year the show dates are as usually, the week preceding the Ste-Marie-aux-Mines “Mineral & Gem” show: Professional day (for dealers only) : Friday June 21: 10:00–18:00 Official show inauguration : Friday June 21, 18:00 (see below) Enthroning ceremonies and friendly drink : Friday June 21, 18:30 (see below) Show opening to the public : * Saturday June 22: 9:30–18:30 (dealer’s access possible from 8:30) * Sunday June 23: 9:30–16:30 LOCATION: Regency Palace (halls partly rebuilt), main square (in front of the Regency) Entrance fee * Saturday + Sunday: 5 € * Saturday only: 5 € * Sunday only: 3 € * Children under 12: free * To avoid fraud, tickets with stump will be distributed at the entrance THE NEW SHOWROOMS As announced earlier this year, the 20 th edition of our meteorite show has returned to our old good “Palais de la Régence” (Regency Palace) which remains forever our show “magical place”. Important work has been done in the old building where an elevator is now installed in accordance with the law on security. As a result, the space at the end of the old staircase is now slightly limited and some tables have had to be re-arranged. The new layout of the “Pas Perdus” hall (first floor entrance) now involves only 5 dealer tables while the space devoted to the consignment tables as well as the usual table of Anne Black are now cluttered by the elevator environment. Nevertheless, the “Spiess” space is now fully open and can accommodate 6 dealer tables and the 5 consignment tables. The “ Egloff ” hall still allows placing 9 tables, while the “ Regency Room ” was not affected by the work. As a result, presently 55 dealer and the 5 consignment tables could still be easily installed in the Palace. However, due to the recent increasing demand for tables, we estimate that at least 65 tables are needed to satisfy everyone. This goal could only be achieved by expanding the space of the Palace. The extension now involves the installation of a medium sized tent (10.5 x 7 m) connected to the main entrance of the Regency Palace. The entrance to the Palace is now such that the public must enter through the tent door and inevitably visit all the tables of the tent. TABLE ATTRIBUTION The new configuration of the space currently available (Palace + tent) forces us to assign the tables according to the seniority rule: The "old exhibitors" (those who have reserved tables for a long time), will have the priority to have their usual tables in the Palace (so as in 2017). I will try to arrange their table(s) the best I can, respecting as much as possible the old layout and the presence of their usual neighbors. The "new exhibitors" (those who have rented tables recently and all the newcomers) will receive their tables in the adjacent tent, following the "first come, first served" rule. Those of you who had booked tables in 2018 (in the temporary “Gymnase Communal”), please inform me quickly whether (or not) you wish to confirm your visit this year. If yes, specify how many tables you want to rent. I insist that if you cannot go this year, you notify me that you want to cancel. This is very important and absolutely necessary so that I can immediately assign tables to those who are on the waiting list. TABLE SPECIFICATION: All tables (in the Palace and in the tent) are now fully equivalent in size (160 x 80 cm) and in price (single price of 180 euros per table - and not per meter - regardless of the number of tables rented, meaning that there is no more digressive price for those who rent more than one table). The Palace and the tent rooms are well lit. Anyway, it's up to you to decide if your tables need extra lighting. Please note that only LED bulbs are acceptable, with a maximum power of 100 watt per table. Other bulbs are now prohibited. Tables must be paid preferably in cash (in euros), at the reception desk. French checks are tolerated but not credit cards . When you pay, you will receive your personalized badges. The reservation of the tables starts from now. To register, send me an e-mail: zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Please specify the following data: First name, last name and the country of origin of the main dealer (you) and also of all your assistants. This is necessary
Re: [meteorite-list] Admire spherules
Hi Randy and all, How about the hypothesis that such Fe-rich (?) metallic spherules (from terrestrial origin) are formed through reduction of metallic magma by carbon stemming from very old deposits of shales and coals, as e.g. found in Greenland and elsewhere. See this abstract (about DIsko Island Fe-rich deposits in Greenland) where analyses of selected siderophile elemental ratios had demonstrated that a meteoritic origin for the metallic iron must be excluded. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00389387 See also this series of images of metallic spheruls from other origins and compare: https://www.google.fr/search?q=little+natural+metallic+spherules=isch=univ=X=2ahUKEwi5jozXmcvgAhXNyKQKHWotBREQsAR6BAgGEAE=1536=792 I am not expert, just curious, as such spherules could be easily found upon panning gold in various rivers... Zelimir - Mail original - De: "Korotev, Randy via Meteorite-list" À: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé: Mercredi 20 Février 2019 19:10:27 Objet: [meteorite-list] Admire spherules I just received an email from a farmer with an Admire, Kansas, snail-mail address. He asks: "A glass and metal laced boulder on my farm, sets on a pocket of powdered rock that contains hundreds of spherules per teaspoon of dust. Could this boulder be a piece of crust from the ill-fated young planet that contained the Admire pallasite? " And he sent a fascinating batch of photos. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/18inbz00xzzs28a/AAD5NFY_8Nv829GTmPL0WJJMa?dl=0 I don't know the answer to his question. Maybe some of you do. Randy Korotev St. Louis __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur ⟩ Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Téléphone : +33 (0)3 8933 6894 Télécopie : +33 (0)3XX XXX XXX ⟩ Retrouvez l'UHA sur : Le site Internet : www.uha.fr Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/uha68 Twitter : @UHA68 __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2018 news
19th “ENSISHEIM METEORITE 2018” show news (Feb 18, 2018) Dear meteorite friends, members of IMCA & Meteorite-Central List, Please find preliminary news mainly concerning the new place of the 2018 show. As it was already informally announced last June in Ensiheim, confirmed to many of you on a leaflet distributed at the Munich Mineral show last October, and also officially announced this year in the 2018 calendar of world mineral shows in the Lapis journal January issue and on a separate Lapis booklet, our 19th meteorite show edition had to be tentatively shifted to another building, due to important works in the Regency palace where an elevator (lift) is to be built. These works will start in the forthcoming weeks and should last at least one year. The address of the new (provisional) show hall is : Gymnase Communal, Rue de Colmar, F-68190 ENSISHEIM. To satisfy many inquiries regarding the precise location of the new show hall, here are more details. The new building is located in the middle of a large park, about 450 m (« as the crow flies”) from the Regency palace. Roughly when you reach “downtown Ensisheim”, drive straight through the main street (“Rue de la première Armée”), ignore the Regency palace and the “Domaine du Moulin hotel” that are on your right, cross the bridge and proceed straight 200-250 m through “Rue de la Gare” up to the first large roundabout (traffic circle) where you take the 3rd exit, Rue de Colmar, thus on the left from “Rue de la Gare”. The entrance is immediately on your left and you can enter by car the large yard (which is surrounded by “Rue de la Gare” and “Rue de Colmar”). You will spot 2 main buildings, the “Gymnase” (show hall) and the “Elisatia” building (restaurant, lecture rooms etc)”. Park the car at the appropriate places indicated by signs and located around the buildings, (parking space is large enough). In case, I can provide a detailed map as mail attachment, on request; just ask. The next concern of many of you is the table setup and the dealers layout. The “Gymnase Communal” involves a large 40 x 20 m sports hall where all the tables will be aligned in (most probably 4) parallel rows in a way equivalent to the Munich show halls. All tables are therefore equivalent and equally enlightened by natural sunlight through roof windows. I will try to arrange the tables’ layout as it was in the main Regency room, respecting as much as possible the presence of the usual neighbors in each case. There is space enough to accommodate all the 2017 participants and even to add a few extra tables for possible newcomers, understanding that we do not wish to overstep 55-60 tables. The table renting conditions stay roughly the same as last year. The food and lecture spaces are by far improved and much free space is now available for side activities within the shadowed park around the show buildings. Finally Ensiheim show dates are scheduled, as usually, the week preceding the Ste-Marie Mineral & Gem show, thus: - Professional day: Fri. June 15: 13:00–18:00 - Public: Sat. June 16: 9:30–18:30 and Sun. June 17: 9:30–16:30 More news will be provided soon after we have a committee meeting this late February. From now on, you are free to officially apply for your booth (write to me, preferably by mail, as I am currently very seldom available on phone). Thank you for your constant interest for our event! My ever friendly regards to everybody. Zelimir -- Zelimir GABELICA Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Téléphone : +33 (0)3 8933 6894 __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 10 Mislabeled Meteorites - Meteorite lot $1.99 starting bid
Hi, "Tagounite 019" vas the provisional name of "Talbachat n'aït Isfoul", which is official inMetBull since 1999. Regards, Zelimir De: "Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> À: "Bigjohn Shea" <bigjohns...@mail.com> Cc: "metlist" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Envoyé: Jeudi 17 Août 2017 02:13:30 Objet: Re: [meteorite-list] 10 Mislabeled Meteorites - Meteorite lot $1.99 starting bid Thank you Luc and John, you're both obviously smarter than I am. But like I said, If someone is willing to take a few minutes to do research they might get a good deal. On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Bigjohn Shea <bigjohns...@mail.com> wrote: > ALOT of them are not mislabelled, just abbreviated. > > Great Sand Sea 012, from the Egyptian DCA Great Sand Sea, that specimen > simply never got classified as the official DCA skips from 009 to 019. > > Tagounite 001 and 019 are just informally numbered specimens from the > unofficial DCA of Tagounite. > > Nwa 703 is simply a provisional specimen. > > Kaigorod is simply another name for Vyatka > > etc. etc. > > Cheers, > John A. Shea, MD > IMCA 3295 > > > Sent using the mail.com mail app > > On 8/16/17 at 3:34 PM, Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list wrote: > >> These specimens are not in the meteorite bulletin as they are labeled. >> This means that the provisional name or the field name was not used as >> was assumed at the time of labeling. So one would need to take each >> specimen one by one and do a little detective work via the internet to >> determine it's true name and then to see if it has been classified. >> >> I'm just to lazy to do it, so a little research can save you money! >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Mislabeled-Meteorites-Meteorite-lot-A-little-research-can-save-you-/222615380090? >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Rock On! >> >> Ruben Garcia >> >> www.RubenMrMeteoriteGarcia.com >> __ >> >> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the >> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia www.RubenMrMeteoriteGarcia.com __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur ⟩ Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Téléphone : +33 (0)3 8933 6894 Télécopie : +33 (0)3XX XXX XXX ⟩ Retrouvez l'UHA sur : Le site Internet : www.uha.fr Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/uha68 Twitter : @UHA68 __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2017: fresh news
ENSISHEIM “METEORITE 2017” LAST NEWS (May 29, 2014) Dear meteorite friends, members of IMCA List, Please find some fresh news about 18 th “Ensisheim-Meteorite 2017” show edition. GENERAL Flyer & links: go to the city site: http://ensisheim.net/culture-loisirs/bourse-aux-meteorites/ then click at “Download the flyer” (in English) or “Sélectionner la plaquette” (in French). I can also send the flyer by mail, on request. You might know that henceforth, the Ensisheim meteorite show is organized by the recently created “ Association of Friends of the Ensisheim Meteorite ”, supported by the “ City of Ensisheim ” and of the “ Ensisheim Federation of Associations ”. Our new Association is now officially recognized and registered. Its renewed staff includes 18 members, namely: - a “Board of Directors” composed of 6 “Administrators”, thus Zelimir Gabelica (President, show chair), Alain Lauer (Vice-president), Alain Devilliers (Secretary), Claudine Buck (Vice-secretary), Nathalie Meissner (Treasurer) and Pol-Justin Bloom (Vice-treasurer) - then 12 (French-speaking) Board members (“Assessors”), including André Besson (Tahiti) Anne Black (“Embassador” for USA), Michel Habig (Mayor of Ensisheim), Etienne Lefebvre (Belgium), Philippe-Schmitt-Kopplin (“Embassador” for Germany), François-Marie Sarti (Madagascar) and Sabine Valange (Belgium, show co-chair), and 5 other members of the local logistic staff. TABLE RENTING AND RESERVATION All the 66 tables (61 “regular” and 5 window-tables in the consignment room) are now FULLY BOOKED. The slightly increased number of tables reflects the opening of the SPIESS room (on the right side after the entrance), that now accommodates 8 more tables. Visitors entering the palace are automatically directed to cross the Spiess room. My last compilation (May 29) reports 91 dealers on “regular” tables (including the main co-dealers on the same table) and 6 other dealers in the consignment rooms. Here is the (still provisional) list of registered dealers (in alphabetical order of the main dealer) : AFANASYEV Serge/RAZUMOVSKY Anatoly /SADILENKO Dima + 3 assistants (RU), AID Mohamed (MA), AITHIBA Abdelhadi & El Mokhtar (MA), BARAKSHIN Andrey & Marina (RU), BLACK Anne (US)/WARIN Roger (BE), BOURAGAA Ahmad/BOUFFERA Ahmad (MA), BRIDENNE Pierre/ISELIN Jean-Claude/DA COSTA Daniel (FR) CARION Alain (FR), CASADO José Vicente & Alan Wilfrido (ES), CHAOUI Rachid (MA), CIMALA Marcin/MAZUREK Kazimierz (PL), DECKER (Stephan, Christian + 2 assistants (FR), DEHNER Thomas (DE), DICKENS Dustin (US), EGER Uwe & Eva/METZLER Knut (DE), ENNAHI Larbi (MA), ETAOUSSI Labib (MA), FARMER Michael (US), GABELICA Zelimir (BE/FR) (consignment room) GOFF Martin/HIGHES Tom/SELF Magnus (GB), GREN Andy/GABEL Olaf/KURSCHAT Maren (DE), HABERER Siegfried/SCHNEIDER Karen (DE), HMANI Mohammed (MA), HOEFNAGELS Ben (NL), HUPĒ Greg (US), ISMAILY Sidi-Mohamed (MA), JACKSON Luther (GB) (consignment room) JAWORSKI Laurent/BILLARD Jean-Luc/GUICHET Frantz (FR), JOST Marc/STURNY Madelaine/STADLER Thomas (CH)/KOPPELT Andreas (DE), JUNGHANS Abdul (DE), KACHALIN Dmitry & Natalya (RU), KALACHEV Viacheslav & Natalia (RU), KARL Moritz & Joachim (DE), KINGSBURY Mayya & Michael (US), KOSER Hans (UY), KUMMEL Peter (D)/SMITS Rob & Ana (NL), KUNTZ Fabien/GERBET Marie (FR), LABENNE Luc (FR), MOSER Francesco (IT) (consignment room) MOULAY EL BACHIR Didy (CH), PACER Gregor/Elisabeth (DE), PANI Ahmed/STEHLIK Harald (AT), PELĒ Pierre-Marie (FR), RALEW Stefan (DE), SCHMITT-KOPPLIN Philippe (FR/DE) (consignment room) SHUMILIN Valery & Elena (RU), SIBON Mathieu (FR), SKORNYAKOV Slava/BALABAEV Stepan (RU), SMAL Benoît (BE), SMULA Lukasz & Magdalena/WEREMA Kacper (PL), STRUFE Hanno/WOMBACHER Kally/KNOFEL André (DE)/LENSSEN Rob (NL), TURONE Oscar (AR) (consignment room) VASILIEV Sergey & Lena (CZ), WENGERT Sigrid (DE) (consignment room) All these people can benefit of a free badge, on the basis described in the flyer. ARRIVAL Dealers can enter the Regency rooms to set their tables on Friday morning from 10:00 –to 17:30 (sharp) and/or on Saturday from 7:30 to 9:30, after having first collected their badges at the reception desk (entrance of the Regency palace) and after having paid their tables to the cashier prior to climb the stairs. Please prepare cash (preferred), possibly French checks (tolerated); credit cards are not accepted. People without badges are not allowed to enter during the set up times. FOOD AND DINNER PARTIES When you read this, consider you might have less than 10 days to ask me for a reservation for the FRIDAY DINNER PARTY (send the number of people and names) before I close the reservation list. The dinner starts on Friday 16 th, on the main square under the tent, at 20:00. This reservation is not a strict control but helps the cooks to prepare the appropriate amou
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2017 news
the best for the Chinese New Year (the year of the rooster)... Zelimir -- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim last news
r PIE/SALAD. Please send me your selection asap ! THEMATIC EXHIBITION The side-theme 2016 was expected to be “Pallasites”. Despite my anxious “call for samples”, I haven’t received any offer, possibly because of their relative fragility (?). Even my own samples are not available this time, as they are part of another meteorite exhibition at the Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines mineral show that follows “Ensisheim-2016” (see below). Nevertheless the Regency museum windows will contain some prestigious samples. You could probably admire a new large lunar meteorite, “GALB INAL” (Lunar Regolith breccia), 1.95 kg (total mass), recently found in Mauritania, classification pending (expected to be official for “very soon”). It will be brought by Prof. Albert Jambon (Paris). We expect its arriving in Ensisheim to be finalized in the forthcoming days though its coming is depending on the “heavy negotiations” now still under way with insurers. Let’s cross our fingers… Beside this exclusiveness, Alain CARION kindly proposed to exhibit an important part of his private collection of French meteorites (31 samples) and 3 other giant classics: “Campo del Cielo”, Millbillillie” and “Sikhote-Alin”. THEMATIC EXHIBITION of meteorites at the Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines (SMM) “Mineral & Gem show”. This show starts as soon as ours comes to an end, namely from Monday June 20 (or Tuesday June 21) and ends on Sunday June 26. -- -- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensiheim last news (corrected version)
se who reserved are kindly asked to precise which menu starter they prefer. You can choose between SMOKED SALMON/BRIOCHE our PIE/SALAD. Please send me your selection asap ! THEMATIC EXHIBITION The side-theme 2016 was expected to be “Pallasites”. Despite my anxious “call for samples”, I haven’t received any offer, possibly because of their relative fragility (?). Even my own samples are not available this time, as they are part of another meteorite exhibition at the Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines mineral show that follows “Ensisheim-2016” (see below). Nevertheless the Regency museum windows will contain some prestigious samples. You could probably admire a new large lunar meteorite, “GALB INAL” (Lunar Regolith breccia), 1.95 kg (total mass), recently found in Mauritania, classification pending (expected to be official for “very soon”). It will be brought by Prof. Albert Jambon (Paris). We expect its arriving in Ensisheim to be finalized in the forthcoming days though its coming is depending on the “heavy negotiations” now still under way with insurers. Let’s cross our fingers… Beside this exclusiveness, Alain CARION kindly proposed to exhibit an important part of his private collection of French meteorites (31 samples) and 3 other giant classics: “Campo del Cielo”, Millbillillie” and “Sikhote-Alin”. THEMATIC EXHIBITION of meteorites at the Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines (SMM) “Mineral & Gem show”. This show starts as soon as ours comes to an end, namely from Monday June 20 (or Tuesday June 21) and ends on Sunday June 26. In one of the side-exhibitions they have planned to set an exhibition involving meteorites, with many interesting samples displayed in their special room located in the Piscine building of SMM. They include the GALB INAL new lunar mentioned above (insurance discussions here are finalized…!), the French and the 3 giant meteorites from the Carion collection, about 40 selected samples of varied interest from my own (Zelimir) collection and, last but not least, the original “queen” ENSISHEIM, our “jewel” of 53.831 kg displayed in its original historic case in the middle of the room. A more detailed description of this exhibition can be found on the following link: http://www.sainte-marie-mineral.com/english/les-animations/les-expositions/ WEATHER FORECAST The today (June 13) most recent weather forecast for Ensisheim can be found described and schematized here: https://www.meteoblue.com/fr/meteo/prevision/14-jours/ensisheim_france_3020152 Note the three days of dry and friendly mild weather miraculously inserted within the series of rainy days and weeks we are experiencing right now and also expected to continue during the last days of a surprisingly humid June. Yes, you guessed correctly: your beloved organizing committee is in close contact with the weather friendly gods, with whom it is always possible to negotiate…. Welcome all to the “ENSI BLAST” that again looks promising, bring your smile, have much fun and always keep being happy! Zelimir ----- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2016 news
ceremonies of the new Honorary Members of the “Friends of Ensisheim Meteorite Association” (equivalent to the former Honorary Guardians nominations), but also to enjoy the traditional welcome drink. Note that the new inductees (“Meteorite Friends”) automatically acquire an equivalent honorary status as the former “Meteorite Guardians” (with a plaque and a diploma as memory) The traditional FRIDAY DINNER PARTY is maintained and starts at 20:00 inside the large tent set in on the Regency square. The restaurant "Le Boeuf Rouge" offers a special menu based on guinea fowl (approx. € 20, drinks not included): smoked salmon with brioche or pie with salad, stuffed guinea fowl thigh, vegetables & spaetzles, iced kougelhopf. You may also order a vegetarian menu . Needless to insist the dinner party is more than recommended and everybody (organizers, dealers, lecturers, public and all their friends…) is warmly welcome! If you want to attend, a reservation is a must. Just let me know by mail (for June 10 at the latest) the names of the persons interested and their menu selection so that we can fully meet all your commitments, needs and comfort. On Saturday evening the “Boeuf Rouge” restaurant is closed this year (fully booked for a private wedding). Dinner suggestion: possibility to enjoy under the Regency square tent, a flammeküche-based dinner or other local fast food (see flyer). Those who prefer having dinner elsewhere in the city are invited to return to the square after dinner and enjoy t he “Saturday night dance fever” and the evening discussions that currently continue up to about midnight (slightly flexible deadline). Show Theme: “METEORITES THAT HAVE CREATED A BUZZ ” (historical but also recent falls with some weird or funny anecdote behind…). Side theme: “PALLASITES” Two lectures (in French, but lecturers also speak English) 1) “Planet, dwarf planet, asteroid, meteorite: what difference ?” (by Prof. J.C. Lefebvre - Liège university, Belgium), Saturday 11:00 – 12:00 1) “Description of some famous historical meteorites” (by Marc Jost & Peter Marmet, Bern, CH), Sunday 11:00 – 12:00 This year, we invite ALL OF YOU to participate to the THEMATIC EXHIBITION by bringing for display in the Regency museum showcases what you consider as the “best of the best” of your: A) Pallasites Here, everyone is invited to bring up to 5 pallasite samples (no more) selected for their pure aesthetics. As last year, we will organize a contest with public votes and reward the 3 most appreciated pallasites, basically for their subjective beauty and not necessarily for their rigorous scientific significance. The 3 winning samples should allow their happy owners to appreciate a symbolic prize in the form of bottles of some traditional Alsatian wine, always unanimously esteemed. B) Historical meteorites Everyone can bring some historical meteorites and write a short text describing their fall characteristics. Just send me in time some informal labels with the meteorite name, size, weight and a brief description of their characteristics deserving a competitive display. Historical meteorites are not subject to a public contest. With warmly welcoming everybody to attend this special 17 th meteorite show in Ensisheim, I am now expecting to receive news from many of you and remain at your disposal to provide you with any kind of additional information. Thank you for your interest, My ever friendly wishes to everybody, Zelimir -- -- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur ⟩ Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Téléphone : +33 (0)3 8933 6894 Télécopie : +33 (0)3XX XXX XXX ⟩ Retrouvez l'UHA sur : Le site Internet : www.uha.fr Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/uha68 Twitter : @UHA68 __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite reveals rare unstable element
Hello Derek, List Very exciting reading ! For info, I have acquired in 2013 a 14.7 g Allende fragment that also shows a nice 9.5x5 mm CAI exhibiting a neatly distinct pink color (and also a curious reddish-brown color on some of its (black) crust areas). I was mainly intrigued by the pink CAI but nobody could provide me some explanation. I don't claim the same phenomenon (presence of curium) is responsible of that color in my sample but now I can't help imagining that the curium hypothesis could possibly also explain the color of my CAI. Probably worth some further analysis ? Regards to all, Zelimir - Mail original - De: "mineral via Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> À: "Meteoritelist" <Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Envoyé: Mercredi 9 Mars 2016 15:15:28 Objet: [meteorite-list] Meteorite reveals rare unstable element http://earthsky.org/space/meteorite-reveals-rare-unstable-element Thanks, Derek. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Another New Meteorite
Hi Anne, Is Clifford really new ? I purchased from you (yes, from you) a superb 27 g slice in...2009, thus 6.5 years ago. Here is a copy of my collection write-up: CLIFFORD (Colorado, L6)(S3W2), found 1962; tkw: 1@11.36 kg; collection code: AB 09/314 History and scientific significance: Clifford was found in 1962 in an uncultivated rangeland by a local arrowhead hunter near Clifford, Lincoln County, Colorado. The finder didn't think it was anything important, so he put it in his rock garden. Then 35 years later, Gary Curtiss, a meteorite hunter, realized what it was and got it classified in 1997. Sample description. 42x39x5 mm 27.06 g part slice, 2 edges cut, 2 crusted, dominant black, some brown spots and metallic patches. M. Morgan coll. (label lost). Was I a priviledged customer to whom you had offered this slice in premium ? Anyhow, many thanks, I appreciate the piece and its history Regards to all, Zelimir - Mail original - De: "Anne Black via Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> À: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, cometeoritec...@yahoogroups.com Envoyé: Samedi 21 Novembre 2015 04:14:59 Objet: [meteorite-list] AD - Another New Meteorite My turn to announce a new meteorite! Not a new fall, but a new meteorite (and all meteorites are really falls, how else would they get here) CLIFFORD, from Colorado. A single stone, weighing some 11.36kg, was found sometimes in the early 1960s in rangeland in central Colorado while looking for arrowheads. He brought it home but thinking that it was just an odd looking rock he added it to his wife's rock garden. And it stayed there until 1997 when Gary Curtiss, a Colorado geologist and meteorite collector happened to go by and spotted it. He immediately recognized it for what it was, bought it and had it classified by Alan Rubin at UCLA. But then he kept most of it for himself! Until very recently, when I finally convinced him to get a few slices cut and made available ot collectors. Clifford is an ordinary chondrite, type L6, Shock S3, Weathering W2, with some large chondrules, metal blebs, and odd tiny vugs. I have now 11 slices at very reasonable, collector-friendly, non-gouging prices! Listed right here: http://www.impactika.com/clifford.html Any questions, just ask! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur, Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim-2015 show flyer
Good morning everybody, Yes, I sent my message to both the MetCentral List and IMCA. The message to the List went fine (Art kindly notified me to use plain text but there were also other problems, now solved. Anyway, thanks to Art) The message to IMCA seems to still being held until the list moderator can review it for approval, for the following reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list. I notified IMCA that I am a member (IMCA 2380). Still waiting Anyway, warm thanks for help Anne! All the best, Zelimir - Mail original - De: Anne Black impact...@aol.com À: i...@mail.imca.co Cc: Zelimir Gabelica zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Envoyé: Mercredi 15 Avril 2015 02:38:30 Objet: Fwd: Ensisheim-2015 show flyer Hello everybody, Zelimir sent the following email regarding the Ensisheim Show this morning, but it does not look like it went anywhere. So here it is again. If you did receive it, then sorry for the duplication. If you did not receive it then Enjoy! time flies, the show is in 2 months! And if you have problems contact Zelimir, tell me and I'' try to help. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Zelimir Gabelica zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr To: Anne Black impact...@aol.com; meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Apr 14, 2015 8:51 am Subject: Ensisheim-2015 show flyer Dear meteorite lovers, This to notify everybody that the official Ensisheim-2015 show flyer (in English or French) along with a short program, can be found on the Ensisheim city web site: http://meteorite.ensisheim.net I can also send the flyers as attachment, on specific request. To help me managing the table layout for dealers, I'd appreciate that our regular exhibitors/dealers confirm (or cancel) their usual booth for 2015. This would help me managing the remaining places for newcomers. More news to be sent next week. Thank you all very much Cordially, Zelimir -- Zelimir GABELICA Professor, Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr -- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur ⟩ Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Téléphone : +33 (0)3 8933 6894 Télécopie : +33 (0)3XX XXX XXX ⟩ Retrouvez l'UHA sur : Le site Internet : www.uha.fr Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/uha68 Twitter : @UHA68 -- Zelimir GABELICA Professeur ⟩ Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Téléphone : +33 (0)3 8933 6894 Télécopie : +33 (0)3XX XXX XXX ⟩ Retrouvez l'UHA sur : Le site Internet : www.uha.fr Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/uha68 Twitter : @UHA68 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim-2015 show flyer
Dear meteorite lovers, This to notify everybody that the official Ensisheim-2015 show flyer (in English or French) along with a short program, can be found on the Ensisheim city web site: http://meteorite.ensisheim.net I can also send the flyers as attachment, on specific request. To help me managing the table layout for dealers, I'd appreciate that our regular exhibitors/dealers confirm (or cancel) their usual booth for 2015. This would help me managing the remaining places for newcomers. More news to be sent next week. Thank you all very much Cordially, Zelimir -- Zelimir GABELICA Professor, Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mike Miller in ICU - Thoughts and Prayers Appreciated
Although we don't know here Mike, we strongly feel concerned by his recent health problems. I hope that the prayers of the Ensisheim committee members that I just contacted will fly as positive in phase waves, relieve Mike's lung dysfunctions and favor his prompt recovery. Peace and hopefulness to his family. Zelimir Zelimir GABELICA Service d'affectation ⟩ Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu 3, Rue Alfred Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex Mail : zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Téléphone : +33 (0)3 8933 6894 Télécopie : +33 (0)3XX XXX XXX ⟩ Retrouvez l'UHA sur : Le site Internet : www.uha.fr Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/uha68 Twitter : @UHA68 - Mail original - De: Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com À: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé: Mardi 20 Mai 2014 00:41:43 Objet: [meteorite-list] Mike Miller in ICU - Thoughts and Prayers Appreciated Hi all, I stopped by to see our friend Mike Miller today at the hospital (KRMC) in Kingman, AZ. He's completely sedated and on a breathing machine. I was told that he's been in ICU for a few days and that doctors are somewhat baffled as to what has happened. Something is causing fluid build up in his lungs that is making it impossible for him to breathe unassisted. He entered the hospital on Wednesday evening due to pains in his chest and back but within hours had to be put on a ventilator to breathe. Mikes daughters (Ashley, and Melissa) work for him and will be checking his email. If you'd like to wish Mike well I'm sure he'd appreciate it. Here is his email. meteoritefin...@gmail.com -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia http://www.MrMeteorite.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] terrestrial ages of finds ?
List experts, Does any kind of compilation exist giving the terrestrial ages (experimentally determined) of FINDS, in particuler concerning NWAs or finds from hot deserts ? Thanks for sharing any kind of info on this. Kind regards, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com a écrit : I will not debate the legacy of Antarctic meteorites. They have had a wonderful history and their contribution to science has been invaluable. Most researchers are sample oriented and are not biased by find location but there are still a few that cling to legacy. Antarctica had a a two decade plus head start in the abstract/paper queue so naturally there are more documents. Ten years ago, maybe one in ten papers were on hot desert finds. Now, I estimate about 50%. At this rate, as very important samples from NWA and other deserts enter the queue, it will not be long before these finds handily overtake Antarctica by a wide margin in the business of science. In other words; There is not enough material coming out of Antarctica anymore to reverse the current trend which favors the hot desert meteorites for research material in the future. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] terrestrial ages of finds ?
Bernd, I was at 100% sure you will be the first to reply and bring a positive answer to my request. Definitely, your info database is invaluable! On behalf of the whole List (and of the whole meteorite community in general), I wish to express you a warm THANK YOU! Best wishes to all, Zelimir BTW: who is going to visit the Munich show (Oct 25-27)? Link (among many others, see Google): http://www.tradefairs.com/Trade_Fairs/The_Munich_Show_Mineralientage_Muenchen/2013/World_of_Minerals_Gems_Jewellery_and_Fossils/14,,7026,203625,0,2.html. I expect to be there probably on Thursday Oct 24 and Friday Oct 25 and be happy to meet many of you there... Z -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de a écrit : Hello Zelimir and List, Zelimir inquires: Does any kind of compilation exist giving the terrestrial ages (experimentally determined) of FINDS, in particuler concerning NWAs or finds from hot deserts? Wlotzka F. (1993) A weathering scale for the ordinary chondrites (Meteoritics 28-3, 1993, A460). Wlotzka F. et al. (1994) 14C terrestrial ages of meteorites from Açfer, Algeria (in Workshop on Meteorites from Cold and Hot Deserts, Nördlingen, July 1994, LPI Tech. Rep.9. Wlotzka F. et al. (1995) 14C terrestrial ages of meteorites from Acfer, Algeria (In Workshop on Meteorites From Cold and Hot Deserts, eds. L. Schultz et al., Lun.Plan.Inst.Tech.Rep. 95-02, Houston, Texas). Jull A.J.T. et al. (1990) Distribution of terrestrial age and petrologic type of meteorites from western Libya (GCA 54, 2895-2898). Jull A.J.T. et al. (1991) Terrestrial ages and petrologic description of Roosevelt County meteorites (abs. Lun.Plan. Sci. 22, 667-668). Jull A.J.T. et al. (1993) 14C terrestrial ages of meteorites from desert regions: Algeria and Australia (abs. Meteoritics 28-3, 1993, 376). Jull A.J.T. et al. (2002) Terrestrial ages of some meteorites from Oman (MAPS 37-7, 2002, A074). P.A. Bland et al. (1995) Weathering of ordinary chondrites from Algeria and Australia as a climatic indicator (abs. Meteoritics 30-5, 1995, 487). Schultz L. et al. (1998) Ten new meteorites from the Ténéré Desert (Niger): Classification, noble gases, cosmogenic radionuclides, and terrestrial ages (Meteoritics 33-4, 1998, A138). Al-Kathiri A. et al. (2005) Weathering of meteorites from Oman: Correlation of chemical and mineralogical weathering proxies with 14C terrestrial ages and the influence of soil chemistry (Meteoritics 40-8, 2005, pp. 1215-1239). Welten K.C. et al. (2004) Exposure history and terrestrial ages of ordinary chondrites from the Dar al Gani region, Libya (MAPS 39-3, 2004, 481-498). Stelzner Th. et al. (1996) The study of weathering products of meteorites by means of evolved gas analysis (Meteoritics 31-2, 1996, 249-254). Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim last news (June 17)
Hello List, Acknowledging a few requests, please find the list of meteorite dealers so far registered for Ensisheim-2013 meteorite fair and a few other scattered info (updated June 17, 2013). Main dealers and their table assistants (between brackets): Anne Black (Dorothy Norton, John Kashuba, Roger Warin) Fabien Kuntz (Marie Gerbet, Pierre-Marie Pelé) Uwe Eger (Ewa Eger) Philippe Thomas (Léa Dejouy, Seth Thomas, Laurent Jaworski) Lukasz Smula (Magdalena Skirzewska, Roman Bubel) Marcin Cimala (Kazimierz Mazurek) Luc Labenne Hans Koser Gregor Pacer Siegfried Haberer (Karin Schneider) Thomas Dehner André Knöfel (David Goettlich) Stefan Ralew Ali Hmani (Mohamed Hmani) Moritz Karl/Michael Farmer/Greg Hupé (Karin Karl, Achim Karl, Kim Kutzera) Keith Cobby Celine Singer/Andreas Ott/Thomas Schürmann Sidi Mohamed Ismaily Hanno Strufe Peter Marmet/Marc Jost (Roger Perrinjaquet) Sergey Vasiliev (Lana Vasiliev) Serge Afanasiev/Dima Sadilenko (Katya Aksenova, Anatoly Razumovsky, Sergey Patukhov) Andrey Barakshin (Ignaz Barakshin) Slava Skorinakov (Stepan Balabaev) Giorgio Tomelleri (Lina Tomelleri) Michail Ivanov Ahmed Pani Evgenij Suhanov (Viktor Aleksejev, Boris Aleksejev, Denis Lukin) M. Becker Viacheslav Kalachev (Natalia Tuzlukova) Yury Pustov Aleksey Vinogradov Consignment room: samples for sale from: Rame Vataj, Harald Stehlik, Benoît Jacques, Michel Acacia, Sigrid Wengert, Oscar Turone, Philippe Schmitt-Kopplin, Zelimir Gabelica. Total number of dealers (including assistants, consignment dealers and book shop): 75 Countries represented: Germany: 18, Russia: 15, France : 9, Poland : 6, USA : 6, Latvia: 4, Belgium: 3, Morocco: 3, Switzerland: 3, Italy: 2, Argentina: 1, Austria: 1, Egypt: 1, Lithuania: 1, Kosovo: 1, Uruguay: 1 Note: some of these figures/numbers are subject to last minute change. Dealer tables: still 3 tables to rent New enthroned Ensisheim Meteorite Guardians (alphabetical order): * Vinciane Debaille (B) * Dorothy Norton (USA) * Marc Jost (CH) * Serge Walter (F) Friday dinner party: between 65 and 75 participants Weather forecast in Ensisheim (June 17-23): From Monday to Wednesday: 30 to 37°C, warm, severe thunderstorms expected on Tuesday/Wednesday Thursday: 24°C, sunny, scattered thunderstorms Friday: 24°C, rare residual rain, mostly sunny Saturday-Sunday (show days): 21-24°C, sunny to partly cloudy Monday-Friday June 24-27 (Ste Marie show not very accurate forecast): average 18-21°, partly cloudy, rare rain. I stay tuned for comments or any other info requests. A warm welcome and my best wishes to all! Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 4.5 kg find on 9th June in Setesdalsheiene, Valle, Aust-Agder, Norway
Martin, Thanks for the very important info! You are always among the first for such announcements! Nice discussion in perspective during the Friday dinner party in Ensisheim, exactly one week from now. Mike, I know that Morten Bilet (the owner of the Oslo main mass) was willing to make it classified (discussion last year with him in Ensisheim, after I purchased from him a 14 g crusted fragment). I can provide you his mail address if needed. But we can discuss this in Ensisheim next week as well. Side note: in case, we still have 2 free tables (out of 55) in Ensisheim Best wishes, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com a écrit : And yet the incredible Norwegian scientists still haven't bothered to classify the fall yet. Sad. Thankfully I shipped a piece of Moss strait from the field to Dr Grossmann back them or we would still be waiting on Moss to be classified. Anyone in Norway want to get Oslo done, talk to me. We can get it done in a month. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: Very impressive! 4.5 kg find by Terje Fjeldheim in Setesdalsheiene, Valle, Aust-Agder, maybe connected to the meteor on 1st March 2012. http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/277/277098/27709826/jpg/active/978x.jpg http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/277/277098/27709816/jpg/active/729x.jpg Today's press coverage from Norway: http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=desl=notl=enu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dagbladet.no%2F2013%2F06%2F14%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fmeteoritt%2F27707915%2F http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fartikkel.php%3Fartid%3D10104357 http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=notl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fvn.no%2Flokalt%2Fsetesdal%2FUnikt-meteorittfunn-i-Setesdal-2426928.html Press coverage from March 2012: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=desl=notl=enu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bangirommet.no%2Fpages%2Fnews%2Fildkule12.html (article, March , 2012) http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/meteorite-fall-in-southern-norway/ (article, 2nd March 2012) Skycam images of the meteor on 1st March 2012: http://danielsen.exposuremanager.com/g/20120301 Video of the meteor: http://voksenlia.net/nytt/2012/ildkule-20120301.mp4 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Something new is coming... more !
So ducks are angry because they were not able to find this ANGRITE ? Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fabien Kuntz wwmeteori...@yahoo.com a écrit : Hello Bernd, our mascotte name is Léonard, so we can say Léonadrite too I suppose ;-) Anyway Angry birds not found the one on the image, and THAT'S WHY HE IS REALY ANGRY ! Fabien Fabien Kuntz Météorites (ventes, expertise, conférences) Animation scientifique et technique WWMETEORITES (Siret : 511 850 612 00017) www.wwmeteorites.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2013: last minute major change!
Dear meteorite friends, You will read on the very recently updated flyer (May 27th) that THE ENSISHEIM-METEORITE 2013 SHOW COULD FINALLY STILL BE HELD WITHIN THE REGENCY PALACE, AS IN THE PAST! This is now in contradiction with what was announced in earlier flyers and info letters, namely that, exceptionally in 2013, the show had to be shifted to that another nearby place, called Foyer St Martin. This decision could be obtained after a last minute Organizing Committee meeting (May 27), where the possibility to maintain the old show site (Regency Palace) was reconsidered and thoroughly rediscussed. This decision could be reached thanks to the flexibility of the Ensisheim City responsible Mayor and Confraternity local staffs who had re-examined the possibility to postpone the heavy works inherent to the Regency reconstruction. We believe this is a very good and wise news, echoing the first positive feedback of many participants. As a consequence, most of the events will be similar to the 2012 edition, in particular the table layout through the Regency rooms. The Ensisheim 2013 meteorite show new flyer (in English and/or in French) will be available within the next hours on two web sites: *Ensisheim City: www.ville-ensisheim.fr *The St Georges Confraternity: www.confrerie-gardiens-meteorite-ensisheim.fr Those who wish to receive the flyer personally, please write and Ill send what you need as attachment. Here is a summary of the major changes for 2013: 1) SHOW LOCATION: Finally maintained in the Regency Palace (June 22 23, 2013, see flyer). This is actually the main change with respect to the last place announcement (shift of the show to the nearby Foyer St Martin rooms) 2) SHOW ROOMS TABLES: basically the same layout as in 2012. TABLE RENTING AND RESERVATION The organizers reserve the right to attribute the layout of places in an optimal way so as to meet your wishes, always on the currently adopted first come, first served basis. However, it is understood that all former dealers still have full priority to reserve their last year table(s) that are roughly maintained in the same configuration as in the past. As a consequence, because we have quite a number of newcomers, if you wish to reserve your usual table space, it is more than time to let me know or confirm. Please, tell me also if you cant do it this year so that I dont send you any reminder but maintain your name on my mailing list for future. To avoid money transfer complications and bank fee, we accept you pay the table renting cash to the treasurer on Saturday morning. Since we dont require pre-payment, it would be very fair if, in case of cancellation, you notify us enough in advance so that we can rent your stall to those who are on the waiting list. Please when you register, also specify the names of ALL persons occupying your table (ideally 1 to 2 persons for only one table reserved, maximum 3 persons for 2 tables, 4 for 3 tables etc ). Names are needed to write the corresponding badges. People without badges are not considered as dealers, cant occupy tables nor are allowed to sell meteorites elsewhere within the show buildings. FRIDAY DINNER PARTY The Party starts at 20:00 inside the large tent set on the main square. Everybody is warmly welcome! If you want to attend, let me just know from now on, your name and the total number of guests attending, so that we can fully meet all your commitments, needs and comfort. This reservation is a must to facilitate food preparation though we could always accommodate last hour guests in exceptional cases. No need to pay in advance. ACCOMMODATION The 4 traditional hotels are mentioned on the flyer with full contact data. You can also browse through the Ensisheim web sites (see flyer) or use Ensisheim + meteorite as keywords on Google or alike. Everybody must arrange for his own accommodation! If you call, they all do speak English and German. I am now looking forward to having news from quite many of you and am ready to provide you any kind of additional information. If you already reserved, you can optionally confirm; if you dont, Ill consider you will make it !) My best regards to all, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Xining writeup
Martin, thanks very much for the Xining classification info. I had acquired in early Spring 2012 a 21.5 g ~30% crusted fragment from a Chinese source, who also provided some data regarding the fall and its recovery, that I used to build up a provisional collection writeup until the meteorite is officially classified. I just modified this initial writeup using the new Metbull data. Here it is (for what it is worth) for those who like to associate their collection meteorites with some historical and scientific data. Enjoy or delete. - XINING History and scientific significance. On February 11, 2012, a large meteor blazed across the sky over the mountains of rural China. This meteorite exploded in flight and the fragments showered across the remote mountainous region of Huangzhong County in Qinghai Province. The fireball was witnessed by local villagers who lived near the area and pieces of the meteorite were seen to fall aross a wide area that includes a snow-covered mountain top area at an altitude over 8000 feet. Shortly thereafter villagers recovered about 10 stones within the Huangzhong county, roughly centered around Xining city of Qinghai Province. The strewnfield (ellipse of 20-30 km in length and 4-5 km in width oriented NNE) is in a mountainous region, at an average altitude of over 2500 m. The fall includes the villages of Baina, Small Sigou, Yehong, Heergai, and Baiya. The total weight of the fall is more than 100 kg. The largest meteorite landed on a mountain slope, weighing 17.3 kg and the second largest stone of about 12.5 kg was found on a mountain top of Xiaosigou village. A third stone weighing 7.5 kg landed in Baiya village, created a small crater and shattered into many pieces. A fourth stone weighing 5 kg also broke when it landed in a Muslim villager's yard in Herguy village. A fifth stone weighing about 2.5 kg landed on a concrete road creating a small crater in Yehong village, and broke into many pieces. Many pieces and fragments, among which the two lergest meteorites were bought from the villagers by meteorite lovers. Miao Buikui and Liu Xijun (Guilin University of Technology-GUT) and other researchers from the Beijing Planetarium, who heard the news of the fall and visited the fall site, recovered several meteorite samples for study and classification. Early recovered pieces of the fall show pristine black velvety fusion crust up to 1 mm thick and none of them showed signs of rusting. Later recovered specimens started to oxidize in the snow. Most stones have a similar appearance with a blocky shape and not well rounded corners. Where orientation is present, it is poorly developed. The broken exposed matrix is primarily white or virgin grey with tiny flecks of metal or metal-troilite nodules with (Fe-Ni) metal and troilite reaching 20.9 wt.%. This meteorite first appeared to be an L chondrite, possibly L5 or L6 with noticeable shock veins, slickensides and troilite inclusions. The final classification argued for a L5 type (Metbull, May 23, 2013). - I'd also appreciate to be informed in case someone notices something wrong or incomplete in this just built writeup. Thank you! Best wishes, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com a écrit : About time:) I have some killer fragments available. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On May 23, 2013, at 9:59 PM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: Dear list members, XINING is OFFICIAL in the MetBull now: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=57470 Martin Von: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com An: Robert Beauford robertbeauf...@rocketmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Feb 11, 2012, Qinhai province, Fall Datum: Thu, 23 May 2013 01:04:31 +0200 Plenty was found, but I have no idea why the Chinese have refused to publish it. I have a couple kilos of fragments if you want some. Great meteorite, at least 100 kilos recovered. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On May 22, 2013, at 6:02 PM, Robert Beauford robertbeauf...@rocketmail.com wrote: The early reports on the Feb 11, 2012, fall from Qinghai province seemed to indicate that it should lead to an epic recovery, but I have not heard of a subsequent name, classification, or any large number of finds... was I just not paying attention at the right moment (entirely possible), or did nobody do any hunting in earnest after the snow melted in the spring? Thanks, in advance, for any thoughts. -Robert __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http
Re: [meteorite-list] Glenn Huss Collection and Wellman Meteorite
Hi Peter, As I might already told you, my Wellman (c) is a 67.15 g full slice, 86x55x7 mm, and carries a Huss N° # H39.452 painted on edge. Got from Blaine Reed in 2004 who traded it (probably, not 100% sure) from David New some 20+ years earlier. All the best, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de a écrit : Hello Peter and List, Peter wrote: I wonder if anyone on the list purchased a Wellman (c) from David New in the 1970s or 80s? The Huss Collection number is H39.125 There is a Wellman (c) endcut weighing 42 gr in my collection. Its dimensions are as follows: 4.8 x 3.9 x 1.5 cm and the Huss Collection number is H39.525 Unfortunately I don't remember exactly wether I got it from David New or from someone else. It might also be from Walter Zeitschel. Best wishes, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim flyer latest news
Dear meteorite friends, The Ensisheim 2013 meteorite show flyer (in English and/or in French) is now available on two web sites: *Ensisheim City: www.ville-ensisheim.fr *The St Georges Confraternity: www.confrerie-gardiens-meteorite-ensisheim.fr As the sites will be updated only in a couple of days, those who wish to receive the info immediately, please write me and Ill send what you need as attachment. Here is a summary of the major changes for 2013: 1) SHOW LOCATION: Exceptionally this year, THE SHOW LOCATION MUST BE CHANGED Because the Regency Palace where the show is currently held is under reconstruction, this year the 14th show will take place in another separate building called FOYER St MARTIN. (in 2014 the show is again to take place in a brand renewed Regency Palace there will be an elevator!) The Foyer is located quite close (about 400 m) to the Regency palace. For those who are familiar with the Regency location, when you are in the main street, dont turn right towards the Regency but continue straight on up to the bridge (250 m away). Once on the bridge, the Domaine du Moulin hotel is on your right and the Foyer St Martin is on your left. Turn left after the bridge and proceed 100 m along the river. You cant miss the Foyer building in the large park on your right side and the large parking area all around. 2) SHOW ROOMS: The Foyer consists in one large 18.6 x 12 meter room, resembling the Regency main hall, though larger. The usual 160 x 80 cm tables will be probably arranged similar to the Regency arrangement. 3 open doors and a passageway lead to a large side-terrace (18 x 8 m) where 4 open tents will be erected against the Foyer wall, each containing 4 dealer tables. The advantage of the tents is that they are outdoors (fresh air), well protected from improbable rain and they offer a more quiet and intimate space. The passage along the tents is inevitable. Tents and the main room are separately guarded overnight. Opposite the main hall entrance is a podium (stage) where the genuine Ensisheim meteorite and the Thematic Exhibit (Meteorites from Antarctica and Chelyabinsk video/pics see flyer) are set. The Consignment Room (space where organizers guests coming from far away are offering for sale their extraterrestrials), is set at the entrance of the main hall. 3) TABLE RENTING AND RESERVATION We have quite a number of newcomers so if you wish to reserve your usual table space it is more than time to let me know. Please, tell me also if you cant do it this year so that I dont send you any reminder. To avoid money transfer complications and bank fee, we accept you pay the table renting cash to the treasurer on Saturday morning. Since we dont require pre-payment, it would be very fair if, in case of cancellation, you notify us enough in advance so that we can rent your stall to those who are on a waiting list. All former dealers have full priority to reserve their last year table(s). Giving the 2013 Foyer particular configuration, the organizers reserve the right to attribute the layout of places (in tents and in the hall) in an optimal way so as to meet your wishes, always on the currently adopted first come, first served basis. Please also specify the names of ALL persons occupying your table (ideally 1 person per table, though 2 persons can be allowed for only one table reserved). Names are needed to write the corresponding badges. People without badges are not considered as dealers, cant occupy tables nor are allowed to sell meteorites elsewhere within the buildings. 4) FRIDAY DINNER PARTY The Party starts at 20:00 inside the large tent set in the park. This party is where folks from all around the vast world meet, eat and drink but also make friends, set business, start deals .Needless to say, everybody is warmly welcome! If you want to attend, let me just know from now on, your name and the total number of guests attending, so that we can fully meet all your commitments, needs and comfort. This reservation is a must to facilitate food preparation though we could always accommodate last hour guests in exceptional cases. No need to pay in devance. 5) ACCOMMODATION The 4 traditional hotels are mentioned on the flyer with full contact data. You can also browse through the Ensisheim web site or use Ensisheim + meteorite as keywords on Google or alike. For memory, the nearest hotel is now the Domaine du Moulin, the other options being Les Loges de lEcomusée », the Niemerich hotel in Pulversheim and the Cheval Blanc in Baldersheim. Everybody must arrange for his own accommodation! If you call, they all do speak English and German. I am now looking forward to having news from many of you and am ready to provide you with any kind of additional information. My best regards to all, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Re: [meteorite-list] Glenn Huss
Hello Peter, I suspect it could be Wellman c though I can't certify. These were the most often offered for sale some 10 to 15+ years ago by various dealers (D. New, B. Reed). Wellman a, b, d and e were rare, if ever offered. Here is the writeup of my Wellman c full slice (67.2 g), as obtained from B. Reed in 2004: WELLMAN (c) (Texas, H4), found 1964; tkw: 10@40+kg. History and scientific significance. Though recorded as found in 1964 by Huss, Eugene Cornelius recovered many specimens of Wellman (c) in the 50's. To date, 10 distinctly different meteorites were found in the Terry County area near Wellman. This is a great American meteorite that is typical of the weathered, rusty specimens found across the Great Plains region. Sample description. 86x55x7 mm full slice, black section, lots of metal spots, veined, orange brown crust. AML label # H39.452 (G. Huss) painted on edge. Note that, since, Wellman f, a H3.5, was discovered. Here is part of the writeup I have for that one: WELLMAN (f) (Texas, H3.5)(S2W2), 1999 Around 1999, a cotton farmer uncovered a 16.4 kg stone while plowing about a half-mile south of Wellman, Texas. He kept the stone in his garage until 2004, when he contacted McCartney Taylor, who identified the stone as a meteorite. Since this is the 6th stone meteorite found near Wellman, it has been provisionally given the identifier of (f). Hope this brings some help. Best personal wishes, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Peter Davidson p.david...@nms.ac.uk a écrit : Hello Friends I wonder if anyone on the list can help me with some information about the famous collector Glenn Huss. I have been working on the collection recently and came across a specimen which we have now discovered is linked to the collection of Glenn Huss by dint of having a Huss Catalogue Number on the specimen . It is a specimen of the Wellman meteorite and was purchase from the mineral dealer David New of Montana in 1977 as part of a larger consignment which also included two other meteorites (Wiluna and Allende) as well as several mineral specimens. The Catalogue of Meteorites (CoM) lists five Wellman entries (a,b,c,d and e) I was wondering which one ours could fit into. It is clearly an H type chondrite but whether it is H4 or H5 I can't really tell. I wondered if the catalogue of the Huss collection exists somewhere and wondered if I could match up the Huss number on our specimen with the register number in the catalogue. I am also keen to add any additional information into our own database here. All replies will be gratefully received. PS Notice I have resisted talking about the death of Margaret Thatcher (oops!) Cheers Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals National Museums Collection Centre 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA 00 44 131 247 4283 p.david...@nms.ac.uk Vikings! Discover their untold story in a new exhibition of treasures. National Museum of Scotland, 18 January 12 May. Book now www.nms.ac.uk/vikings National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Significant digits
Michael, you are totally correct. Did you notice that the current usage (in MetBull but also in some official scientific papers) is that one always writes total known weight but also main mass ? Is this now fully admitted or tolerated or ...just odd ? I was puzzled with this years ago but soon admitted this practice so that I even use it as such in my collection writeups at least until TKW is one day officially corrected by someone responsible and concerned to TKM Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com a écrit : Kilograms are a unit of mass, which is regardless of the force of gravity. Although often spoken of as weight, correctly it should be referred to as mass. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Chelyabinsk - Hammer?
At least, it then becomes a hammered stone. Or, according to Goethean anvil! Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 h...@meteorhall.com a écrit : I have heard a few well known meteorite dealers say that they have taken a hammer to a meteorite to break it up, so as not to lose any material, as opposed to cutting the meteorite. So, does it then become a true Hammer Stone? (:-) Myself, I love the history of each meteorite. That is why I prefer most Falls over Finds. However, some of the old finds from Nininger or well before, as listed in the National Academy of Sciences-Memoirs, XIII, Meteorites Of North America, To January 1, 1909, have such rich and wonderful stories that it is like reading a good old adventure book. Hammer Falls and Hammer Stones just add glamor and richness to the fall story. Museums know this to be a fact. The more human interest in the story, the more people want to come and see the historical items. Cheers, Fred Hall Hi List, Rumor has it that the Russian woman struck by the stone has adopted the Mbale boy. Details at six. This meteorite fall should be considered a hammer fall, in my opinion. I know some hate that term. But let's face it, this fall did hammer the crap out of an entire city. Buildings knocked down, thousands of windows blown out. You can't argue against that. Before the purists hurl chondrites at me I am aware of the important distinction terminologywhich is this - only those stones which actually struck something are hammers or hammer stones. But, if there is ever a candidate for something to be called a hammer fall - this is it. This is the biggest and most devastating hammer since Tunguska. Personally, I'd be careful purchasing hammer stones or artifacts from this fall. Given the high TKW and thousands of individual stones across a populated area, the potential for fraud is elevated. It would be too easy for an unscrupulous seller to say that any given stone bounced off their car or shed. Documentation is important. Look at how many Sikhote shrapnels were being passed as Chelyabinsk on eBay right after the fall. Some of those same scammers could easily take a real meteorite and fudge the hammer side of the story to increase the interest and value. I would stay away from hammers of this fall, unless they are offered by someone like our Russian list-members or someone who has been on the ground in Russia, like Mike. Anything else is rolling the dice. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 3/30/13, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Hundreds of them have already been found on top of buildings, one woman was hit by stone which went through her jacket! Will try to find the news report but hard in Russian. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Mar 30, 2013, at 9:50 AM, jpbrock...@aol.com wrote: Hello List: Are there reports of any of the stones actually hitting man made structures? Also, is the shockwave damage to buildings sufficient to classify the fall as a Hammer? Juris __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Interactive map for Ensisheim fall
Hi Anne, Rich, all, Anne, but there IS a nice red spot in the middle of Ensisheim city! Just enlarge the map by rolloing the mouse! (like on Google Map). And you bet, I did so, regarding Ensisheim meteorite. And to my surprise, the spot (at high magnification) is neither situated in the Regency palace (logical) but nor along the road where there is a well known plaque (about 2 km South from downtown Ensi). No, it is located exactly a few hundred meters West from our famous Le Boeuf Rouge restaurant, not at all far from the new (provisional for 2013) show location. In a small park, near the river shore. Intriguing I definitely must go there again for a rapid screeninghey, one never knows if, among all these fragments reported to have been broken by paesants after the fall, some could have survived...? I keep you informed. Otherwise, you know what to do after your 2 full days at the show... Best wishes, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Rich Atkinson atkins...@gmail.com a écrit : Anne, Not sure what the problem is. I just cut and pasted the description from the Guardian web page so that people can decide if they want to follow the link or not. Am sure they'd appreciate your feedback. On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Anne Black impact...@aol.com wrote: A couple problems. I suppose you mean the Meteoritical Society, not the Meteorological Society, since we are talking about meteorites not weather. Also, there should be a red dot in Alsace, eastern France, where the Ensisheim meteorite fell in 1492. Besides that, this map is a great idea. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Rich Atkinson atkins...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 10:23 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Interactive map of all known meteorites (Guardian data blog) Every meteorite fall on earth mapped Or at least those we know about. And where are the known meteorite landing places on earth? These impact zones show where scientists have found meteorites, or the impact craters of meteorites, some dating back as far as the year 2,300BC. The data is from the US Meteorological Society and doesn't show those places where meteorites may have fallen but not been discovered http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2013/feb/15/meteorite-fall-map rich __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisehim 2013 news
forward to having news from many of you and remain at your disposal to provide you with any kind of additional information. My ever friendly wishes to everybody, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisehim 2013 news
Hello Martin, all, Martin thanks very much for the link (Antarctica daily adventures) that I should not have forgotten to include! Oh my...too many issues to think about, fast. Indeed here we also do follow their wanderings in the cold Antarctic deserts with a strange mix if anxious and pleasent feelings and we enjoy so much their extraordinary findings. I foresee a superb and very original exhibit of cold wonders in Ensisheim soon. And what a lecture in perspective! You can't miss this! The other mistake I want to correct is the name of Vinciane, one of the important leading members of the Antarctic expedition. Her family name is well DEBAILLE, not Debienne. Thanks Martin, thanks Etienne. Best wishes, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de a écrit : Dear Zelimir and list members, Main theme: ?METEORITES FROM ANTARCTICA? What an excellent idea! Follow the Antarctic expedition with Vinciane Debaille and her colleagues here: http://antarctica.oma.be/ Happy hunting! Best regards, Martin Von: Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr An: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Ensisehim 2013 news Datum: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:21:53 +0100 ENSISHEIM ?METEORITE 2013? NEWS (January 26, 2013) Dear meteorite friends Meteorite-Central List Please find here the preliminary news concerning the 14th edition of our meteorite show ?Ensisheim-Meteorite 2013?, expecting this will reach you in time before you start the next ?Tucson blast? where most of you who live ?overseas? (and from the vast world as well) will gather soon. This info completes the official flyer that will be ready in a couple of weeks and that I will be glad to forward you individually, upon request. Further show details will be also sent to the List in a couple of months, as every year. Here are just the main changes useful for those wishing to book tables and foresee specific arrangements. SHOW DATES: Saturday June 22 (9:30-18:00) and Sunday June 23 (9:30-16:00), 2012 (the weekend preceding the ?Mineral Gem? show that is held in Ste Marie-aux-Mines, relatively nearby (~ 80 km), with Friday June 21 as the ?dealer?s day?). SHOW LOCATION: Exceptionally this year, THE SHOW LOCATION MUST BE CHANGED! Indeed, the famous Regency Palace which is the usual and unavoidable place to set the show, is subject to heavy works that unfortunately will not be completed by the due date. While the external buildings are expected to be reconditioned, the interior halls will by no means be accessible in June: all the rooms and corridors will be restored and repainted while an elevator (lift) will be built so as to facilitate the rise and handling of your heavy meteorite boxes in future. (Hey, never worry, the famous medieval spiral staircase will stay untouched). Naturally in 2014, for the 15th Anniversary of the show coinciding with the 30th Anniversary of the Confraternity of Guardians creation, a brand renovated Regency Palace will welcome you again! For 2013 (only) we have obtained another separate building called ?FOYER St MARTIN?, which is located quite close (about 350 m) to the Regency palace, and just separated from the ?Domaine du Moulin? hotel by the main street (distance ~150 m). You can find the place, the building picture and the access map in the following link: http://www.jds.fr/agenda/manifestations/expo-bourse-aux-meteorites-2013-a-ensisheim-53539_A The ?Foyer? consists in one large 18.6 x 12 meter room, resembling the Regency main hall, though larger. The usual 160x80 cm tables will be arranged similar to the Regency arrangement, namely all around the walls and also arranged in a ?middle square?. The daylight basically comes from the glass ceiling, and will provide a uniform illumination (personal lighting is always allowed). This means that the characteristics (light etc) of every place in the hall will be practically the same. A small bar, dressing room, telephone room, restrooms ? are adjacent to the main hall. Opposite the entry is a podium accessible from both hall sides by 2 staircases. The podium will host the genuine Ensisheim meteorite in its display window, the thematic exhibit (Meteorites from Antarctica ? see below) and the consignment room, all visible from the main floor. 3 doors on the west side lead to a large terrace (18x8 m) where at least 4 tents will be erected, each containing 4 dealer tables. The terrace itself adjoins a large park providing all the usual facilities (tables for food, leisure, snacks, tent for dinner party, enthroning ceremonies, Friday friendly drink, every day drinks, music, beverage bars, dance?). In fact, all what was set on the Regency main
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Maroccoite is also close to the mineral Marokite (CaMn2O4) already named to honor the occurrence (Morocco or Maroc in French) Berberite carry many favorable arguments however that name is very close to the mineral Berborite (a BERyllium BORate)... But I agree the NWA countries should be honored. Other suggestions ? Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Rob Matson mojave_meteori...@cox.net a écrit : Since Saharite is already in use, and Moroccoite or Maracite (if meant to honor NWA) are overly exclusive (ignoring Algeria, Western Sahara, or even Tunisia and Libya), why not Berberite? (Apologies if this has already been suggested.) The term is inclusive, and honors the people responsible for finding the majority of the meteorites. It's easy to pronounce, does not correspond to any rocks or minerals that I'm aware of, and even has the pair of B's to alliteratively tie it to both Black Beauty and Basaltic Breccia. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Terry Boswell Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:56 AM To: Carl Agee; meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Hi Carl,] Saharite is already in use in reference to fulgurites found in the Sahara Desert. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose saharaite. So we now have the meteorites from Mars or SCANS S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 5102a808.5040...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the SNCB. It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
...or SNACS ? (close to snick, sometimes supposed being the popular pronounciation of the former SNC) Of course, I second Saharaite, (always favoring a name over a number) Incidentally the former proposal SNCB appears a little funny, almost ridiculous to us Belgian citizens, bacause SNCB is here the well known abbreviation for Société Nationale des Chemins de fer Belges (our National Railway Society)... Funny discussion Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Carl Agee a...@unm.edu a écrit : Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose saharaite. So we now have the meteorites from Mars or SCANS S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 5102a808.5040...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the SNCB. It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Flu shot before Tucson?
Purchases of potentially flu-contaminated meteorites coming from Tucson are suspended until further notice...(LOL) Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net a écrit : I went ahead and got my flu shot this morning after being reminded about the thousands of people from dozens of countries converging onto Tucson and the mix of other diseases that can get you! OK, let the dead flu germs go to work... :) Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 5:13 PM To: METEORITE LIST Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Flu shot before Tucson? Hey list, Question in general, and more specifically for list members coming to Tucson: if you haven't gotten one already, is it worth it to get a flu shot before coming to Tucson? -Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] POLONNARUWA METEORITE WITH EVIDENCE OF LIFE FROM OUTER SPACE....
Hello Jodie, Mike, Sterling, List I fully agree on all Jodie's pertinent remarks against a true novel finding, in particular the fact that the results were accepted and published in that journal of Cosmology (not Cosmetology), only a couple of weeks after the discovery. In fact, why did they not keep this secret until prestigious journals as Nature or Science accept to publish the first note? I guess that this most important finding since 500 years should have never be refused by these journals! But if you read their paper, one can also find fundamental scientific counter-arguments that argue for a huge hoax. Look at the picture of the fragment. This has NOTHING to do with Maribo! It is far too porous!!! I suspect a simple scoria. I don't know whether this area is volcanic but imagine a volcanic scoria lying there since long months or years, for sure such diatomea or red rain grains can well find time to get inserted within the scoria pore structure. The identification as a meteorite was claimed quasi exclusively on the basis of a simple EDX analysis (why not quantitative microprobe ?). Where are other id data absolutely required to characterize a new meteorite ??? How a so to say reputed journal can accept such poor data (unless the mafia hypothesis is retained) ? Ok, even if we rely on the EDX data alone, the fact that they found a lot of carbon (how much) and olivine etc., becomes trivial if one considers that the carbon obviously comes from the fossilized diatomea or from the red rain grains themselves and that almost all volcanic scoria in the world do also contain olivine! (believe me, I am collecting scorias and lavas from different world wide volcanoes). This was enough for me to stop the further reading. The sad side of the news is that it is so readily reported by journalists without any side checks, provided the title is sensational. Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net a écrit : Here's the paper. http://www.buckingham.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Polonnaruwa-meteorite.pdf Connecting back to other bogus phenomena, the meteorite also contains cells of what are sopposed to be cells of the red rain. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com To: 'Meteorite list' meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] POLONNARUWA METEORITE WITH EVIDENCE OFLIFE FROM OUTER SPACE Did I misread that? Journal of Cosmetology? By the way, I am pretty sure I found evidence of extra-terrestrial life in my 11 year old son's socks today. I ready to publish because, after the socks, I'm ready to perish. Mendy -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jodie Reynolds Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 6:52 PM To: Michael Farmer Cc: Meteorite list; Tom Randall Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] POLONNARUWA METEORITE WITH EVIDENCE OF LIFE FROM OUTER SPACE We need to be a little careful of the Journal of Cosmology. Although they claim to be peer-reviewed, as blogger PZ Meyers so eloquently describes them: --- It doesn't exist in print, consists entirely of a crude and ugly website that looks like it was sucked through a wormhole from the 1990s, and publishes lots of empty noise with no substantial editorial restraint. For a while, it seemed to be entirely the domain of a crackpot named Rhawn Joseph who called himself the emeritus professor of something mysteriously called the Brain Research Laboratory, based in the general neighborhood of Northern California (seriously, that was the address: Northern California), and self-published all of his pseudo-scientific publications on this web site. They've gotten whacked for publishing these claims before: http://news.discovery.com/space/nasa-refutes-alien-discovery-claim-110307.ht m From Bad Astronomy: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/03/07/followup-thoughts- on-the-meteorite-fossils-claim/#.UPNxZ3fSrLc http://rrresearch.fieldofscience.com/2011/03/is-this-claim-of-bacteria-in-me teorite.html etc, so-on, ad-nauseam. Give me a call when it appears in Science, Nature, Space Science Revue, Astrophys, Astron_J Planetary and Space Sci, Advances in Space Research, ... ;-) --- Jodie Sunday, January 13, 2013, 1:42:21 PM, you wrote: What a pile of steaming crap article! I love how they have put out a scientific paper finding life, in two weeks (I returned from Sri Lanka on the 29th). The meteorite which fell there on 18 dec was a chondrite, then in typical 3rd world fashion, meteorites were hitting all over
[meteorite-list] Mbale TKW
Hello Linton, Many thanks for the Meteorite picture of the day (Mbale). Regarding the TKW (officially 850+@~150+ kg), here is a more recent update: The TKW officially reported was recently re-evaluated (O. Popova, in: Proc. Meteoroids 2010, Breckenridge, Co, July 2011, pp 232-254). The paper reports, among others, that the progressive fragmentation model to the Mbale entry allowed estimation of fallen mass as 200-250 kg in 100-3000 fragments (in dependence on assumed breakup model) covering a strewnfield of about 1 x 7-9 km. Best wishes, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mbale TKW
Hi Mendy, You are perfectly right, this is not an exact weight (200-250 kg is indeed just a range). I don't have that paper but this is part of the summary I got. But it is clear that this figure is just deriving from a (here breakup) model. I am sorry for my misleading word update. By this, I meant this should perhaps be added as a side remark to the writeup for Mbale, which I did in my own catalog, understanding that I maintained the official tkw and the number of pieces really collected (or at least reported). Sorry for the confusion. Excellent remark though. Regards, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com a écrit : Zelimir, The paper below is estimating what could possibly have hit the ground, right? TKW is an estimate or sometimes an exact weight of what has actually been found. These two are potentially very different numbers. So, it is not the TKW that should be updated. Can you clarify? Regards, Mendy Ouzillou On Jan 10, 2013, at 2:00 AM, Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de HauteAlsace ENSCMu, zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr wrote: Hello Linton, Many thanks for the Meteorite picture of the day (Mbale). Regarding the TKW (officially 850+@~150+ kg), here is a more recent update: The TKW officially reported was recently re-evaluated (O. Popova, in: Proc. Meteoroids 2010?, Breckenridge, Co, July 2011, pp 232-254). The paper reports, among others, that the progressive fragmentation model to the Mbale entry allowed estimation of fallen mass as 200-250 kg in 100-3000 fragments (in dependence on assumed breakup model) covering a strewnfield of about 1 x 7-9 km. Best wishes, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] fresh falls for science
I confirm. Representative samples of Novato have been kindly donated to the Peter Jennisken's consortium who in turn sent some fragments to Philippe Schmitt Kopplin and team in Munich, with whom I have the pleasure to collaborate (we have the privilege of being partners of that consortium). High resolution FTICR-MS (Mass) and NMR Spectra (presence of extraterrestrial organic matter) are recorded since a couple of weeks and discussions are starting. It is extremely rewarding for the scientific community that, especially in the case of fresh falls, samples are very often generously (and spontaneously) donated by meteorite hunters/finders who are more aware of their importance for science than of their potential commercial value. On behalf of the whole scientific community, we are deeply indebted to them. Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net a écrit : I heard part of the first one [Novato stone] was generously supplied to UCLA for initial analysis, balance was hoped for by other finders. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (eBay Facebook) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Mendy Ouzillou Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 1:33 AM To: 'Michael Farmer' ; 'Larry Atkins' Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2012 - Year of Meteorite Falls I thought the first stone originally found, the yes-no-yes stone (thank you Bob Verish for the last yes), was donated to Peter Jennisken's so that it could be typed and studied. Was that not the case? Mendy -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Farmer Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:42 PM To: Larry Atkins Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2012 - Year of Meteorite Falls Type specimen has not been given by any of the finders. Sadly another meteorite in limbo. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Larry Atkins thetop...@aol.com wrote: Hi Mike, List, You said, Five days later on October 17, 2012, a stony meteorite fragmented above the NOVATO area of urban California - sending meteorite hunters and local residents out into the streets to look for stones. One piece reportedly hit a residential home. This one isn't approved yet either, I don't believe. I've heard rumor that nobody has pony'd up the type specimen yet, hmm, hmm. Anyone have the low down? Sincerely, Larry Atkins IMCA # 1941 Ebay alienrockfarm -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Jan 2, 2013 6:41 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] 2012 - Year of Meteorite Falls 2012 the Year of Meteorite Falls! The year 2012 saw a new record set for most meteorite falls in a single year in the 21st century. I started keeping detailed records of every new meteorite fall that is recovered or reported by reliable sources. Some of these have not been officially approved by the Meteoritical Society yet, but that is not unusual. In 2012, eleven (11) new meteorite falls fit the above criteria to be included on my list. Prior to 2012, the most falls in a single 21st century year (since 2000), was ten falls in 2008. On average, since the year 2000, we have averaged about 5 recovered meteorite falls per year that are either officially accepted by the Meteoritical Society or verified by reliable sources (such as the 2008 Zunhua meteorite fall, which has not been officially approved yet, but is a meteorite nonetheless). The first verified fall of 2012 was a few days before Valentine's Day on February 11, 2012. This was the so-called XINING-Huangzhong, which has not been officially approved yet, but was analyzed and is likely an L6-chondrite. About three weeks later, on March 01, 2012, the OSLO meteorite struck a roof in Norway. But, it was the April 22, 2012 spectacular SUTTER'S MILL meteorite fall that took the meteorite world by storm. A rare sub-type of CM carbonaceous chondrite, this celestial black gold showered over a strewnfield that happened to be the birthing ground of the legendary California Gold Rush. This one is arguably one of the most scientifically-iimportant meteorites to fall since Tagish Lake. Just a couple weeks later, an ordinary chondrite fell over the DIPLO area of Pakistan. This event was overshadowed by the ongoing media circus surrounding the recent Sutter's Mill fall
Re: [meteorite-list] T-shirt (and French Fall)
Hi Bill, You are giving here a wrong reference. We were speaking about LOUIS Poyet (1846-1913) the famous specialist in engravings who lived in Paris. See here: http://www.gonefishing.fr/article-le-graveur-du-dimanche-louis-poyet-48802161.html You refer to JEAN Poyet, a protographer who left thousands of true photographs taken between 1902 and 1956 in the Epernay area, whare he lived. Click on the first link (video) on your own link. Unless there is another Poyet in concern ? I also went through quite a number of Louis Poyet's engravings (Google etc) but could not spot anywhere a painting/engraving showing a meteorite fall in wheat field... The hunt continues Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com a écrit : Maybe this one will work. http://memoirephotographiquechampenoise.org/fondspoyet.article.sauveta.htm From: parkforest...@hotmail.com To: fuzzf...@comcast.net Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 22:46:12 -0600 CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] T-shirt (and French Fall) His son was a photographer. Here's an interesting piece. http://131.253.14.66/proxy.ashx?h=I16l_o4Ri25lLYlb-Q009NPpP3R-7NiBa=http%3A%2F%2Fmemoirephotographiquechampenoise.org%2Ffondspoyet.article.sauveta.htm From: fuzzf...@comcast.net To: zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 15:28:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] T-shirt (and French Fall) Many thanks for the quick translation, Zelimir! One other tidbit that might help with searches. The artist's full name is Louis Poyet (1846-1913). He was a remarkable French artist who specialized in engravings. It looks like he had many engravings published in numerous 19th c. French magazines, mostly La Nature. -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:05 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] T-shirt (and French Fall) Hi Mike, List, Here is a rapid translation of the essentials of the St Caprais fall report: -- On Sunday January 28, 1883 at 2:45 (p.m.) the whole population of St Caprais, Gironde Department (ZG Note: This is the Bordeaux area, thus near parallel 40° North) was frightened by a series of 5 violent shots (bangs) comparable to cannon shots, which were followed a noise (rumbling ?) resembling a shooting. People who stood outside their houses noticed a black cloud towards the direction where the noise came from: the black cloud was like an explosion smoke, very different from the ordinary clouds covering (that day) the whole skies. 2 farmers (Perrotin father son) noticed an ignited object falling in the South-East direction, so close from where they stood so that they could notice the exact place where the object hit the ground. Nobody considered seeking the aerolite the same day. But the next day, a Mr. Elliot, having consulted the witnesses, found at that exact place a dense stone weighing 282.5 grams, burried 0.1 meter deep, the hole dimensions on the surface being 0.06 x 0.04 m. The number of shots heard at St Caprais and in the neighboring villages could assume the presence of other fragments; but the latter, if ever existed, were never collected (ZG note: it is not said that they were never FOUND...) . - The rest of the text deals with some aerolite characteristics, probably not worth further translation. This is thus a rapid translation of the major events of interest for the issue, of concern. I believe Bernd, who is sure as fluent in French as myself, would agree. Apparently this does not trow more light to the mystery as it was obviously the winter time and even around Bordeaux
Re: [meteorite-list] T-shirt (and French Fall)
Hello Bernd and all concerned, Bernd, I read the original French fall report for St. Caprais-de-Quinsac and the description indeed could correspond to the painting. When Werner asked the question, I was sure I had spotted in due time a print of this painting in some book or pamphlet of my library where it might well be some indication of the bolide (or fall place) name. I went all through my numerous meteorite books but unfortunately, so far, I could find nothing. However, my copy of the well known Nininger's Find a Falling Star has its dust jacket cover with the same painting reproduced. I looked for details within the different editor's writings and also along some chapters regarding this cover but could not even find mention of this painting on cover. The last edition of Meteorites form A to Z reports only 3 falls occurring in 1883, with St. Caprais the only one from France. So, for me, you had solved that enigma, unless someone can contradict this. I second Twink and others' appreciations of your fascinating ability to access various data and find reference for anything concerning meteorites and related. Bernd, you remain our invaluable Extra-encyclopedia! To all, I renew my very sincere wishes for happiness, health and love (in the order of your choice) for this New Year 2013. Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de a écrit : Hello Bill, Werner Down Under, Listees, Listoids, First of all: A happy, healthy, prosperous 2013 to all of you! Werner wrote: It seems it doesn't relate to a specific fall since there was none in France in the year 1883. Maybe this one: St. Caprais-de-Quinsac (L6; gas-rich) After the appearance of a black cloud and detonations, a stone of 282.5 gr was seen to fall ... Gironde (France) Fell 1883, Jan 28, 14:45 hrs Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] T-shirt (and French Fall)
Hi Mike, List, Here is a rapid translation of the essentials of the St Caprais fall report: -- On Sunday January 28, 1883 at 2:45 (p.m.) the whole population of St Caprais, Gironde Department (ZG Note: This is the Bordeaux area, thus near parallel 40° North) was frightened by a series of 5 violent shots (bangs) comparable to cannon shots, which were followed a noise (rumbling ?) resembling a shooting. People who stood outside their houses noticed a black cloud towards the direction where the noise came from: the black cloud was like an explosion smoke, very different from the ordinary clouds covering (that day) the whole skies. 2 farmers (Perrotin father son) noticed an ignited object falling in the South-East direction, so close from where they stood so that they could notice the exact place where the object hit the ground. Nobody considered seeking the aerolite the same day. But the next day, a Mr. Elliot, having consulted the witnesses, found at that exact place a dense stone weighing 282.5 grams, burried 0.1 meter deep, the hole dimensions on the surface being 0.06 x 0.04 m. The number of shots heard at St Caprais and in the neighboring villages could assume the presence of other fragments; but the latter, if ever existed, were never collected (ZG note: it is not said that they were never FOUND...) . - The rest of the text deals with some aerolite characteristics, probably not worth further translation. This is thus a rapid translation of the major events of interest for the issue, of concern. I believe Bernd, who is sure as fluent in French as myself, would agree. Apparently this does not trow more light to the mystery as it was obviously the winter time and even around Bordeaux, there should not be any wheat (or alike) in the fields Bernd is right to point out that this painting can be a view of an artist, possibly painted some time after the event (perhaps in Summer time ?) More ideas ? Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.nele t a écrit : Excellent observation, Bernd! Indeed, the grass is too high for January! The mystery continues. Perhaps Zelimir can tell us if there is anything in Lespiault and Forquignon's report that corroborates any of the features of Poyet's illustration. Here is a link to the original report (in French): http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFenetre?O=NUMM-3053I=1022M=tdm I love these kinds of meteorite mysteries. Let's solve it! I'll keep looking... Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bernd V. Pauli Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 1:26 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] T-shirt (and French Fall) Hello List, I wrote: St. Caprais-de-Quinsac...Gironde (France) Fell 1883, Jan 28, 14:45 hrs Sounds good, looks good, ... but: Have a close look at the date of the fall: Jan 28 !!! Now, when you compare this with Mike B.'s remarks: One will note that there are many farmers about and the horse is saddled with the hay carriage. The only conclusion we can thus draw is that the scene depicts an (imaginary?) event in late summer during the harvest season, probably August. Another possibility might be that Poyet so-to-speak merged two incidents: the fall of the St. Caprais-de-Quinsac meteorite and the harvest scene. A case of ... artistic license? Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives
Re: [meteorite-list] T-shirt (and French Fall)
Wouw Mike, this is an excellent idea. Imagine, I have a set of about 30 or so big leather bound (double ?) volumes of La Nature in French, extending from early 1880's to about 1926. I know there are many meteorite fall reports and related engravings but these volumes were acquired recently and I actually never found time to browse trough. I'll have a look tomorrow and let you know some thoughts (today it is very late here - just the early morning of Jan 3). Keep tuned, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net a écrit : Many thanks for the quick translation, Zelimir! One other tidbit that might help with searches. The artist's full name is Louis Poyet (1846-1913). He was a remarkable French artist who specialized in engravings. It looks like he had many engravings published in numerous 19th c. French magazines, mostly La Nature. -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:05 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] T-shirt (and French Fall) Hi Mike, List, Here is a rapid translation of the essentials of the St Caprais fall report: -- On Sunday January 28, 1883 at 2:45 (p.m.) the whole population of St Caprais, Gironde Department (ZG Note: This is the Bordeaux area, thus near parallel 40° North) was frightened by a series of 5 violent shots (bangs) comparable to cannon shots, which were followed a noise (rumbling ?) resembling a shooting. People who stood outside their houses noticed a black cloud towards the direction where the noise came from: the black cloud was like an explosion smoke, very different from the ordinary clouds covering (that day) the whole skies. 2 farmers (Perrotin father son) noticed an ignited object falling in the South-East direction, so close from where they stood so that they could notice the exact place where the object hit the ground. Nobody considered seeking the aerolite the same day. But the next day, a Mr. Elliot, having consulted the witnesses, found at that exact place a dense stone weighing 282.5 grams, burried 0.1 meter deep, the hole dimensions on the surface being 0.06 x 0.04 m. The number of shots heard at St Caprais and in the neighboring villages could assume the presence of other fragments; but the latter, if ever existed, were never collected (ZG note: it is not said that they were never FOUND...) . - The rest of the text deals with some aerolite characteristics, probably not worth further translation. This is thus a rapid translation of the major events of interest for the issue, of concern. I believe Bernd, who is sure as fluent in French as myself, would agree. Apparently this does not trow more light to the mystery as it was obviously the winter time and even around Bordeaux, there should not be any wheat (or alike) in the fields Bernd is right to point out that this painting can be a view of an artist, possibly painted some time after the event (perhaps in Summer time ?) More ideas ? Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.nele t a écrit : Excellent observation, Bernd! Indeed, the grass is too high for January! The mystery continues. Perhaps Zelimir can tell us if there is anything in Lespiault and Forquignon's report that corroborates any of the features of Poyet's illustration. Here is a link to the original report (in French): http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFenetre?O=NUMM-3053I=1022M=tdm I love these kinds of meteorite mysteries. Let's solve it! I'll keep looking... Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765
Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill Regolith breccia
Hello Frank, Yes, solar implanted gases were detected and evaluated. This is summarized in the main text, p 1585 (see below) and further detailed in the supplementary text Materials Methods where figures S1 to S36 can be seen, in particular Fig S27 (20Ne/22Ne versus 21Ne/22Ne plots). Here is part of the related § of the main text: ...SM is a regolith breccia. Like all CM chondrites (26), SM contains Ne from solar wind implantation in a surface regolith (fig. S27). Unlike most other CM chondrites, the brecciated nature of that regolith is evident: SM2, 18, 47, 48, 51, and 54 contain angular to rounded clasts embedded in a fine-grained comminuted matrix seen visually (Fig. 2A), by x-ray and backscattered electron mapping (Fig. 2B and fig. S13), and by x-ray and neutron computed tomography (figs. S28 and S30)... Kind regards, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Frank Cressy fcre...@prodigy.net a écrit : The Science abstract refers Sutter's Mill meteorite as being a regolith breccia. I've only read the abstract and several other abstracts, but I don't remember any mention of it containing solar implanted gases. I was under the impression that to be a regolith breccia, there had to be a noble gas content. Am I missing something or am I completely wrong. (It hasn't been the first time) Thanks, Frank __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Monnig questions
Hi Martin, Maybe I can provide you a partial help . In late 2003, I started a compilation of the weights (masses) of all the Ensisheim meteorite fragments, slices...owned in museums, institutes, or held in private collections... I received much feedback and help from various people concerned and, in particulat, from the list at the time, on a relatively regular basis so that I could update the repositories in 2005 and 2007. My latest update of the compilation was done some time in 2009 and completed sporadically with a few new data provided by listees during 2010. As per December 2010 I came up with 171 repositories mentioning the places where the pieces/fragments are held, the owner's name and the exact weight. Presently I realize that, with the accelerated redistribution of meteorites in various collections through trades, web contacts, E-Bay offersmy list badly needs an new update, for which I will send a call for new info data in some very near future. From this latest comlation (2007 - 2010), I can just tell you this: 1) TCU museum (Fort Worth, TX) apparently held a piece of 30.9 grams. It was not specified whether this came from the Monnig collection. This figure is from 2007 and apparently did not change in 2010, although I was in a regular mail connection with David New at the time (though I never asked him specifically to update this figure). 2) Matteo had contacted me some time in 2007, reporting he had in collection 2 Ensisheim pieces weighing together 2.06 grams. He specified both came from the Monnig collection. I neither know the individual weights, nor their Monnig numbers. Hope Matteo can help more. Happy hunting! Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Martin Goff msgmeteori...@gmail.com a écrit : Just found the following post from Matteo Chinellato dated 1st September 2002, he mentions having a Monnig Ensisheim specimen for sale with old label. This could possibly be the 218.1 numbered specimen that i am chasing info on. Anyone have any knowledge of this? Matteo, if you still read the list could you email please? I have the 218.2 specimen, the current Monnig/TCU specimen is listed as 23 grams and is number 218.4 so Matteos sale piece should only be either 218.1 or 218.3 (which i dont know the weight of) Hello all I have update my collection site, arrive to 495 pieces! New arrival is NWA 1110 from the main 118 gr. of fragments found, NWA 1052-1054 new acapulcoites, HaH 180 a very nice meteorite, HaH 183 - the Sampson meteorite - Lost Creek - Sampson II - others NWA, Chinquetti and others.others in arrive is Mauerkirchen, Hoba gr.5 slice, Ensisheim from Monnig Collection with old label, Mocs and others http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Regards Matteo Thanks again all Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2013 dates
Dear List concerned colleagues, This message to definitely throw light on the many rumors about the exact dates for Ensisheim-3013 meteorite show. At present, the dates of the 2013 edition of the Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines (SMM) Mineral Gem international expo, namely June 27-30, seem to be officially confirmed. This implies that, as usually, the Ensisheim event will be scheduled the week that precedes the SMM show, assuming that neither of the parties can find advantage to orgainize their corresponding event the same week. Naturally, we always give priority for date selection to SMM organizers, whose show exists since 50 years. The definitely fixed dates for Ensisheim are therefore the following: from Friday June 21, 2013 to Sunday June 24, 2013. This definitely cancels the dates that I may have had announced to some persons in the past, that were June 14 to 16. This had been provisionnaly decided at a time when some ads regarding SMM were announced to be June 20-23 (for example in some earlier issies of the journal Lapis). Please just ignore these dates and retain June 21-24. I just hope the current dates for SMM won't be changed again. Thanks Svend Bulh and a few other German colleagues for having notified me about this problem. Kindest regards to all, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oum Rokba
Hello Bob, Mike, To my best knowledge, Oum Rokba is (or should be, or will be...?) synonym of NWA 400. My best source for now is my own writeup from my collection catalogue, written a few years ago, saying that for Oum Roka, one shound see NWA 400. The Oum Rokba piece I got from Blaine Reed in early 2001 is therefore (provisionally) referred to as NWA 400. Here is this writeup: - NWA 400 (synonym: Oum Rokba) (Algeria, H5), found 2000; tkw: Many@100+ kg; coll. code: BR 01/362 History and scientific significance: One of the last meteorites from Sahara having received a (formely official) name, thus Oum Rokba, meaning old womans knee in Arabic (see Met. Times, Dec. 2008) before the NWA nomenclature. (Oum Rokba should soon become a synonym of NWA 400, name still to be confirmed as well) Sample description: Individual, 44.71 g, 45x35x15 mm, brown, 100% (wind-blown) crust, irregular shape. I realize my source is not reliable either though it could be interesting to consult the Met Times article (that I don't have on hand here). Regarding NWA 400, it is still provisional in the MetBull database, with, as only indication: found in Algeria, tkw 10,000 (g ?), 1000s pieces found. Info: gives reference to our good friend Dean Bessey Bob, go ahead with this to explore more in depth the story. Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com a écrit : Since the name Oum Rokba was never approved, the question seems needless. I only know what I was told at the very beginning of the NWA rush, there was no reason for them to lie, we asked where they were from, we were given that answer. I never went to the location. For an old weathered typical chondrite it was not in my often hurried schedules. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jul 31, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Robert Verish bolidecha...@yahoo.com wrote: A question to anyone who has hunted meteorites in Morocco: Other than a Berber tribesman, has any meteorite dealer/hunter ever found an Oum Rokba stone, I mean, really picked-up from the ground in the actual strewn-field one of the several hundred distinctive-looking, chondritic stones that were originally recovered 12 years ago? I wrote an article back in Dec. 2008 about the Oum Rokba (H5) meteorites, and I repeated the oft-quoted story about stones being found by a Berber native a few kilometers from an Oasis named Oum Rokba. Since then, I've been asked by several people if I had any direct evidence of that recovery and of its location, in order to make that statement. The actual phrase that I remember being asked was, Don't you think that it is strange that a strewn-field the size of Oum Rokba (many hundreds of stones), that it's actual location wouldn't be better known? Even a couple square kilometers around the Oum Rokba oasis isn't that large that it would forever hide that large of a strewn-field, and by now, someone else must have discovered it's location. Those questions posed to me were implying that, given the benefit any name would give to the marketing of a meteorite, it should be considered as too convenient, and that in order to accept the location of this strewn-field it would require corroborating evidence from an independent source/hunter. Also, that this notion would probably be met with resistance, because preserving the mythology would be considered more important than confirming the topography. Personally, all I need is to have just one guy stand-up and say, Yeah, I found one of those stones there. Bob V. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWAs and their country of origin
Dear Jeff, list, I overlooked with curiosity the link suggested by Jeff (example of NWA 2986 described in Met Bull). Nothing to argue about the O isotopic data, all is OK there. But read the whole writeup by curiosity and note that NWA 2986 is probably paired with NWA 2975 and related stones. Upon clicking at NWA 2975 (link given), it appears its country is Algeria, the meteorite being purchased by M. Farmer in Erfoud (Morocco) but beneath, it is said that the place op purchase is...Algeria. Nothing dramatic though somewhat confusing... Now, back to NWA 2986. If both shergottites are paired, souldn't one expect they were found in the same country ? Though the find place for NWA 2575 is referred to as Algeria while Morocco is claimed to be the find place of NWA 2986 ... Strange again, this could suggest to some readers that both were possibly found somewhere near the border of the two countries (logically, where they fell...) Both were purchased (at different moment) in the same city (Erfoud) by the same person (Farmer). Though not sure the seller was the same (only Mike can tell). It is possible the seller N° 1 told Mike NWA 2975 was found in Algeria and the N° 2 that NWA 2986 comes from Morocco. Or that the same seller claimed the same...Or perhaps he (or they) actually did not know at all where it was found...or forgot?...or mentined a country just by chence...or by purpose ? Why, in such a confusing case, not simply mention as country NWA or Sahara, as it is often mentioned so for most of the NWAs ? Is there somebody in the NomCom supposed to correct and to address these obvious uncertainties some day ? Thanks and best wishes, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com a écrit : If you go to any entry for which oxygen isotope data are present, you'll see the a link to the plots, e.g.: NWA 2986: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=33436 Jeff __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2012, latest news
(plaque) as a permanent honorary memory. It is back-expected that the concerned brothers leave as their own trace of gratitude, some object (meteorite .) that will receive its definite display label and donation mention, in this special window. This materialized tradition is to be considered as the reciprocal mutual and permanent appreciation between the two parties and the official belonging of the brothers to the Ensisheim Confraternity of the Ensisheim meteorite Guardians. MAIN ROAD (Ensisheim downtown) CLOSED! Works on the main road leading to the Regency palace are closed. Please follow the orange road signs deviation (= diversion/detour). Practically, at the barrier, turn right then take the second small street left and you are next to the church . DEALERS/EXHIBITORS present in the 2012 show (random order, by table N°): (List set on June 12, 2012) Naame (country) Table N° BLACK Anne (US)1 GIRARD Florence Olivier (F) 1 HABIBI Aziz (MC)2 BOURAGAA Ahmad (MC) 3 EGER Uwe Ewa (D)4 THOMAS Philippe, DEJOUY Léa (F) 5 JAWORSKI Laurent, BILLARD Jean-Luc (F) 6,7 KUNTZ Fabien GERBET Marie (F) 8 CIMALA Marcin (PL) 9 CARION Alain (F)10 DEHNER Thomas (D) 11 BILET Morten BARBO Osmo (N) 12 PACER Gregor (D/PL) 13,14 MENSING Jürgen Cornelia (D) 15 KNÖFEL André (D)16 GOETTLICH David (D) 16 RUSCHINZIK Bernd Carola (D) 19 RALEW Stefan Lana (D) 20 HMANI Ali Mohamed (MC)21,22,23 KARL Moritz KUCZERA Kim (D) 24 FARMER Michael (US) 25,26, HUPÉ Greg (US) 25,26 KOSER Hans (UY) 27,28 PANI Ahmed (Egy)29 PELE Pierre-Marie LEJEUNE Vincent (F) 30 STRUFE Hanno (D)31,33 MARMET Peter JOST Marc (CH) 34,35 VASILIEV Sergey Lana (RU/CZ) 37 AFANASIEV Serge AFANASYEVA Liza (RU) 38 SADILENKO Dima AKSENOVA Katya (RU)38 BARAKSHIN Andrei, Marina, Ignaz (RU)39 SKORNIAKOV Slava (RU) 40 KALACHEV Viacheslav (RU)38 to 40 PUSTOV Yury (RU)41 TOMELLERI Giorgio Lina (I)42 ISMAILY Sidi Mohamed (MC) 43,44,45 BECKER M. (D) 46 HAIDERER Erich Sylvia (A) 49,50,51,52 BISEY (F) (book shop) 53,54 A few more last minute reservations are expected. NB: Sigfried HABERER and Mirko GRAUL had to cancel their tables this year. They will be again with us in 2013. Consignement rom: active participants : VALANGE Sabine (B/F) GABELICA Zelimir (B/F) VATAJ Ramë (KS) WARIN Marie-Paule (B) DEVILLIERS Alain (F) STEHLIK Harald (A) SCHMIT-KOPPLIN Philippe (F/D) LIU Yezhou (CN) JACQUES Benoît (B), ROSS Dirk (US/JP) TURONE Oscar (AR) More .. CONCLUSION: Ensisheim-2012, the 13th such blast in a row, is now waiting for your coming. In less than 3 days we will all gather again and have lots of passion and funny/friendly live moments. An event nobody would miss or, if so, eternal regrets guaranteed! Happy hunting and with my very best wishes, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Glorieta Mountain (Was: Pojoaque Pallasite)
Hello Bernd, Very interesting data about these historical synonyms of Glorietta. I do have the Hey catalogue and the Buchwald treatise but would never had the idea to go through to find such details. You remain invaluable not only in having built your endless library and a computer-assisted literature compilation, but especially in being able to select by heart the document in which you are sure to find very rapidly the most appropriate reference. Thanks for sharing your vast knowledge and expertise! See you soon in Ensisheim ? Kindest regards, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de a écrit : Regine inquired: I too would like to know where this one is being kept. What baffles me though, how does one get to the conclusion the meteorite had been carried in a medicine bag? It doesn't sound implausible, but what are the clues? Magic powder topping? Is there any further info? Hello All, Many of us still have the 4th edition of the Meteorite Catalogue (1985). Most of us still have the 5th edition of the Meteorite Catalogue (2000). But few collectors, dealers, meteoriticists still have the 3rd edition on their bookshelves [Hey M.H. (1966) Catalogue of Meteorites]. On page 387, you find the following info: Pojoaque, Santa Fe, Santa Fe County, New Mexico, U.S.A. Found before 1931. 35° 54' N., 1° 0' W. Stony-iron. Pallasite? A fragment of 84 grams was found in the ancient pueblo of Pojoaque = Pojuaque) (L.F. Brady, Amer. Journ. Sci., 1931, ser. 5, vol. 21, p. 178 [M.A. 5-12]; H.H. Nininger, The Mines Magazine, Golden, Colorado, 1933, vol. 23, no. 7, p. 4 and no. 8, p. 6 [M.A. 5-405]). Probably a fragment of Glorieta Mountain (H.H. Nininger, Amer. Antiquity, 1938, vol. 4, p. 39 [M.A. 7-272]; Amer. Journ. Sci., 1940, vol. 236, p. 56 [M.A. 7-544]). Main mass in the Laboratory of Anthropology, Santa Fé; 6 gr in H.H. Nininger's collection. And now let's go to Buchwald: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Vol. 2, pp. 598: Two exceptions are the specimens which were described as Pojoaque (Brady 1931; Nininger 1933b) and Sante Fé (Henderson 1934), and which are still listed as separate meteorites by Hey (1966). Pojoaque (No. 12) is a 128 gr fragment found in the ancient Indian pueblo of this name. lt was found in a pottery bowl, and it has been suggested that its bright, worn exterior may be accounted for by assuming that it had long been carried in the pouch of a medicine man (Brady 1931). The ruin in which it was found is about 50 km northwest of Canonçito, but since the structure and the state of preservation correspond exactly to that of authentic Glorieta Mountain specimens, Pojoaque is, no doubt, a transported fragment. Present location (p. 599): Laboratory of Anthropology, Santa Fé (Ref.: Brady, 1931; Nininger 1940a). So, if it is still there, the answer to Regine's inquiry should be: = Laboratory of Anthropology, Santa Fé = Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2012
Pierre-Marie list, I am OK, healthy again. Yesterday I finalized the final flyer for Ensisheim (in French English) that is ready to be sent to anyone on request. Don't hesitate to ask me. I am also about fo finish writing the the traditional Ensisheim info text that I use to send every year to the list and that gives more info than what is on the flyer. I also explain there my recent long silence (heavy surgery) and that I will start, from now on, to reply every request for table reservation in Ensisheim and every question related to the show. I still have 3000+ mails to read (most to trash) Thanks to all for your patience. Pierre-Marie, yes, you can have a table. Most of you who asked for a table will have place. I'll write to everyone personally. PM, I just can't guarantee you the main (Regency) hall, as you were absent for some time and, as you know, priority is given to dealers having reserved the same tables previously (2011, 2010 etc). I'll do my best to satisfy you. More news later today. Best to all, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Pelé Pierre-Marie pierremariep...@yahoo.fr a écrit : Hello, despite of multiple emails to Zelimir, Sabine Valange or J.M. Blosser, I couldn't get any confirmation of my reservation of table... Does anybody of you ever get answers from them in the last months ? Ensisheim show is in less than 2 months and I'm a bit afraid of going there and have no table... Pierre-Marie Pele meteor-center.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2012: detailed news
passion, fun, faith and friendship! Bring much nice stuff, your passion, your smile, some money and have a happy hunting! My ever growing best wishes to all, Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Are_Mars_Meteorites_Magnetic?
Hi Pete, Your statement that magnetite (Fe3O4) is one part wüstite (FeO) and one part hematite (Fe2O3) is formally true (in terms of formula adjustment) but not totally, regarding its physico-chemical properties and especially its structure, that are different from what would result in a mechanical admixture of wüstite and hematite. Magnetite is actually a Fe(II) ferrate(III). It should be written more correctly as Fe(Fe2O4) where the first iron is a bivelent cation Fe(II) or Fe2+ that neutralizes an anion which is (Fe2O4)2- and in which the 2 irons are Fe(III) or Fe3+ As Fe(II) is more electropositive than Fe(III), it preferably acts as cation while Fe(III) ions would more readily be surrounded by enough oxygens so as to build up an anion. This being, I did not check whether the permeability of magnetite results from that of wüstite or whether it is rather rearranged otherwise, which should be far more likely in reagrd with the completely different magnetite structural rearrangement. Thanks you (and Greg) for your clear discrimination between magnetism and permeability, that really needed to be reminded. More precisely, in electromagnetism, permeability is the measure of the ability of a material to support the formation of a magnetic field within itself. In other words, it is the degree of magnetization that a material obtains in response to an applied magnetic field (info from Wikipedia). Happy New Year to all! (In French we use to say Bonne Année, meaning Good New Year. But I prefer by far the English wording. Indeed, it is not beacuse the year is good that you'll necessarily be happy. It mostly depends on your mental spirit and your intrinsic optimism. Some may be poor and/or ill but still very happy. I therefore wish everybody to acquire a very positive mantal spirit in any circimstance, so far for this unpredictable 2012...) Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com a écrit : Richard, the List. There was a reply asking about magnetite. Magnetite is a form of Iron oxide, having the formula Fe3O2. The common chemical name is ferrous-ferric oxide. The formula for magnetite may also be written as FeO·Fe2O3, which is one part wüstite (FeO) and one part hematite (Fe2O3). It contains Iron, therefore it can be a magnet because the iron has a high Permeability. Alinco magnets were made before rare earth magnets. They were made of a mixture of aluminium (Al), nickel (Ni) and cobalt (Co) Sometimes copper and titanium were added. In their day, these were the strongest magnets that were available Now I'm sure someone will pipe up and ask about the rare earth magnets. There are two types: neodymium magnets and samarium-cobalt magnets. Neodymium magnets are made from an alloy of neodymium, iron and boron: (Nd2Fe14B). These are the strongest of all the magnets. Their only drawback is that they oxidize very eazy unless they are covered with a corrosion protection layer of nichol or some other material. The other type of rare earth magnet is samarium-cobalt magnets. The chemical formula is SmCo5, These are made from samarium and cobalt. These magnets are weaker than the neodymium magnets. I hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion. Pete Shugar Original Message Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Are_Mars_Meteorites_Magnetic? From: pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com Date: Thu, January 05, 2012 7:25 pm To: GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com, bernd.pa...@paulinet.de Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Hello list, Greg, Bernd, Yes, everone uses the term magnetic but that is not the proper word for what they are trying to convey. Greg, you are correct in your definition. The correct term is Permeability. Permeability is defined as the ability to be attracted to a magnet. Everything has Permeability, but it is to such a small degree that the object will not stick to the magnet. Almost all living things contain some iron, which makes them have a slight Permeability. There are only three metals with a high enough Permeability to become a magnet. these are iron, nichol, and colbalt. Some stainless steel can have Permeability by deformation, that is, being bent out of shape. If you get bent out of shape, maybe you can be attracted to a magnet. :) A magnet attracts the iron because the iron has Permeability. Magnetic is the term meaning having the properties of a magnet. This is sorta like Meteroid, meteor, meteorite. I'm sorry that I did not get this out sooner, but life got in the way. Pete Shugar Original Message Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Are Mars Meteorites Magnetic? From: GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com Date: Tue, January 03, 2012 5:49 pm To: bernd.pa...@paulinet.de Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Hi Bernd, I
Re: [meteorite-list] Hammer???
.hamerhead shark hammered by a hammer meteorite in Hammerfest bay! Zelimir Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de a écrit : Of course, Andi. And if that happens there: http://www.holger-melms.de/Ha06Uenden.jpg they will celebrate a ..? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Andreas Gren If a torpedo hits a hammerhead shark, is it a hammer again? Andi __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Statistically Speaking
Hi Ruben, all, The Catalogue of Meteorites (M.M. Grady, A.L. Graham), NHM London, Ed 2000, p 313, reports that the MACAU meteorite shower (Brazil, 1836) killed several cattle (several oxen killed, houses damaged...). They give some references (I did not go through). See: http://books.google.fr/books?id=mkdHJR35Q_8Cpg=PA313lpg=PA313dq=macau+meteorite+killed+cattlesource=blots=y-GErvRFOwsig=AP-p2ENs_aJ_TBuG4bIDtF8Z9HMhl=frei=TV3LTpfkFMeo8AO3_ezPDwsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=3ved=0CC8Q6AEwAjgK#v=onepageq=macau%20meteorite%20killed%20cattlef=false See also (for the same): - L. LaPaz, in: Popular Astronomy, vol. 59 (1951), p 433 - Spratt, in Mercury, 1992, March-April issue, p 50 I don't have access to these references. Bernd ? Best wishes, Zelimir Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com a écrit : Hi all, So, After a few days and LOTS of email responses both on and off list here's what I have learned. 1. Q. How many meteorites hit the ground per year? A. On average about 1 per square mile per thousand years. About 20,000 to 40,000 per year. No one challenged this answer so I'm assuming I was at least reasonably correct. 2. Q. Has anyone ever been hit by a meteorite? A. I only know of Ann Hodges - Sylacauga, Alabama, USA Everyone agreed that this answer was correct but added the following. a. Barbotan may have killed a farmer- but who really knows? After all, 1790 was a long time ago. b. A pea sized Mbale ricocheted off of a tree and struck a boy... 3. Q. Has any animal ever been hit by a meteorite? A. I'm not sure... there are stories of a dog and a cow being hit...but? Top 5 answers: a. Park forest meteorite killed termites - while most humans thought it was no big deal apparently the termites felt differently. b. Valera may or may not have killed a horse. c. New Concord may or may not have killed a horse. d. Nakhla most likely killed nothing but still looks good on a website..: ) e. Surprisingly no one even asked about Vaca Muerta (Spanish for dead cow) 4. Q. How often does a city ending meteorite (think Canyon Diablo) strike the earth? A. ? Guesses ranged from 20,000 to 40,000 years ago to Sikhote Alin in 1947. 5. Q. Has any animal ever found a meteorite? A. Sorry, I just threw that one in to see if you were paying attentionlol 6. Q. How much in weight does the earth gain per year by all the meteorites that enter our atmosphere? Including all, from tiny grain of sand meteorites to large bunker-busters. A. No clue.. Seems like my no clue answer is (so far) just about as good as the others. Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Macau fall: more data
Hi again, I found the reference of LaPaz about the MACAU fall killing cattle: See the following link: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1951PA.59..433L/433.000.html His reference was simply Meunier, without any further bibliographic detail. As Stanislas Meunier had published quite many papers on meteorites (including his PhD theis), it might not be simple to find out his origianl citing (detailing ?) the damage caused by the Macau shower. (If needed, I could check Meunier's thesis next week, when I have again access to my private library). On another note, it is interesting to note that LaPaz had evaluated the probability of injury from meteorite falls by probabilistic theories calculations (see the summary and the second part of the reference in the link). Zelimir Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com a écrit : Hi all, So, After a few days and LOTS of email responses both on and off list here's what I have learned. 1. Q. How many meteorites hit the ground per year? A. On average about 1 per square mile per thousand years. About 20,000 to 40,000 per year. No one challenged this answer so I'm assuming I was at least reasonably correct. 2. Q. Has anyone ever been hit by a meteorite? A. I only know of Ann Hodges - Sylacauga, Alabama, USA Everyone agreed that this answer was correct but added the following. a. Barbotan may have killed a farmer- but who really knows? After all, 1790 was a long time ago. b. A pea sized Mbale ricocheted off of a tree and struck a boy... 3. Q. Has any animal ever been hit by a meteorite? A. I'm not sure... there are stories of a dog and a cow being hit...but? Top 5 answers: a. Park forest meteorite killed termites - while most humans thought it was no big deal apparently the termites felt differently. b. Valera may or may not have killed a horse. c. New Concord may or may not have killed a horse. d. Nakhla most likely killed nothing but still looks good on a website..: ) e. Surprisingly no one even asked about Vaca Muerta (Spanish for dead cow) 4. Q. How often does a city ending meteorite (think Canyon Diablo) strike the earth? A. ? Guesses ranged from 20,000 to 40,000 years ago to Sikhote Alin in 1947. 5. Q. Has any animal ever found a meteorite? A. Sorry, I just threw that one in to see if you were paying attentionlol 6. Q. How much in weight does the earth gain per year by all the meteorites that enter our atmosphere? Including all, from tiny grain of sand meteorites to large bunker-busters. A. No clue.. Seems like my no clue answer is (so far) just about as good as the others. Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869
Hi Melanie, Doug, list, Doug, your reference is very appropriate. In cataloging my collection, in some specific cases, when I feel the meteorite I am describing is important, I use to add a short introduction summarizing its historical and scientific background. Here is my write-up for NWA 869, hoping it be of help to Melanie: -- NWA 869 (Algeria, L3-6 rbr)(S3W1), found 2000, tkw: many++@7+ tons. History and scientific significance. It appears quite clear that meteorite collectors in Northwest Africa have discovered a large L chondrite strewnfield at an undisclosed location, most probably around Tindouf, Algeria. Thousands of stones has been sold under the name NWA 869 in the market places of Morocco and around the world, totaling about 7+ metric tons (April 2008, confirmed by J. Kashuba in: “Meteorite Times, Micro Visions”, March 2010), thereby making it one of the largest tkw’s to come out of NWA. The corresponding meteorid was supposed weighing about 110 tons (4+m in diameter), suggesting important ablation and fragmentation (Metzler et al., LPS, 2008; Welten et al., LPS Conf. abstract, 2010, pp 2611). Individual masses are known to range from 1 g to 20 kg. This meteorite was classified a number of times by different institutions (e.g. L4, that became later L5 –UCLA, also L3.9-6 or L6… brecciated or not), before the above final classification by A. Rubin. It is certain that NWA 869 is paired with other NWA meteorites although no systematic survey has been done. Among many examples cited are NWA 787, NWA 900, SAH 02500 (“Wadi Mellene”), possibly also “AC-001”(see the 2 samples named “NWA-aaa” below still under investigation since its find in 2000) and likely many, many more. One other famous example is NWA 904 (L5 br, also S3 W1), of which the numerous pics reported in MetBull database are strangely similar to those of NWA 869, further confirming the similarity of the samples of both meteorites in this collection . It is also possible that some stones sold as NWA 869 are not part of the same fall, although dealers are confident that most of the known masses are sufficiently distinctive from other NWA meteorites in terms of surface and internal appearance, so that the error rate should be fairly low. Although the source of the NWA 869 samples of this collection is reliable (purchase by MV in a Moroccan “selected reliable place” where it has been confirmed that the origin is Algeria, just as for NWA 904 (MV, personal communication), it is suggested (MetBull) that scientists are advised to confirm the classification of any specimens they obtain before publishing results under this name. Much info was published regarding the composition of that strange and very attractive meteorite. When cut and polished, the matrix is full of color and chondrules of all size, some armored. Literature reports 74% gray matrix, 20% light tan (oxide staining) texture (type 5/6 clasts), 4% shock-darkened sulfide-impregnated matrix, 1% type 3 clasts, 1% achondritic textured clasts. J. Kashuba (Met. Times, 03/ 2010) suggests it being a regolith (coarse) breccia (asteroid soil) with chunks 5.5 cm (Kashuba’s picture in above reference; see also the extraordinary dual lithology of the 27.30 g sample described below), also containing rare foreign carbonaceous fragments. Some pieces also display large metal grains and significant troilite domains (35.42 g sample below). The terrestrial age (4.4 ± 0.7 ky) is consistent with the low degree of weathering, W1. Since the abundance of regolith breccias among L-chondrites is only ~3% [Welten et al., 2010)], NWA 869 represents a rather unique and large sample of the lithified regolith of the L-chondrite parent body - Best wishes, Zelimir MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com a écrit : NWA 869 represents an L chondritic regolith breccia containing preirradiated components. The meteoroid had an initial radius of about 2 m with a mass of about 110 metric tons. The transit time to Earth was about 4-5 Ma. Large variations of shielding depths between samples indicate that break-up of the meteoroid must have occured high in atmosphere. This would also explain the large inferred ablation loss, which is typical for large chondrite showers. Ref: The L3-6 Regolith Breccia Northwest Africa 869: Petrology, Noble Gases, and Cosmogenic Radionuclides Metzler, K.; Ott, U.; Welten, K. C.; Caffee, M. W.; Franke, L. 39th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, (Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIX), held March 10-14, 2008 in League City, Texas. LPI Contribution No. 1391., p.1120 Publication Date: 03/2008 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1120.pdf -Original Message- From: Melanie Matthews miss_meteor...@yahoo.ca To: MeteoriteList meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10 am Subject: [meteorite-list]
Re: [meteorite-list] Oum Rokba (H5)
Hello Bob, Oum Rokba was apparently re-named NWA 400. I purchased my specimen from Blaine Reed in 2001 and the provenance on his label was then Algeria (neither Morocco, nor Western Sahara). If you look at the MetBull database, NWA 400 is still provisional and the synonym Oum Rokba is not mentioned. But Algeria is well the country reported... Here is the writeup from my catalog of my specimen, now listed as NWA 400: NWA 400 (?Oum Rokba?), Algeria, H5, found 2000; tkw: Many@100+ kg. Coll. code: BR 01/362. Brief description: Individual, 100% crusted, 44.71 g, 45x35x15 mm, brown, irregular, wind-polished chunk. Last meteorite from Sahara having received a (formerly official) name, thus ?Oum Rokba? (see Met. Times, Dec. 2008) before the ?NWA nomenclature?. Oum Rokba will (should ?) soon become a synonym of NWA 400, name still to be confirmed as well... I recognize there is still some confusion about that one and will be also glad to learn more if someone can help further. Best wishes, Zelimir Robert Verish bolidecha...@yahoo.com a écrit : A question for those of you who may have visited this strewn field: In September of 2000, several hundred chondritic stones with a total known weight of around 100 kilos were exported out of Morocco. All of these stones were found by a Berber native turned meteorite hunter a few kilometers from an Oasis named Oum Rokba. Does anyone have the coordinates for that Oasis? I'm not sure if this oasis is in Maroc or in Western Sahara, so how do I go about finding these coordinates? -- Bob V. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Polandmet 10th anniversary
I have in collection exactly 87 meteorites coming from Marcin's magic offers (including 4 or 5 TS and a couple of meteorite coins). All excellent quality and super preparation, especially his magicpolish! (so to say...) He is one of my most preferred suppliers (I don't say the most to not offend anyone of you!). Congratulations Marcin for these first 10 years. Now that you are oiled, you can go ahead for lng years. Hey, do you know that Marcin is the only one from the many dealers/collectors who already reserved his table in Ensisheim for the next 10 years to come? That is what we could call to have faithin future, perhaps, but in himself, for sure! Good going! Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2099
I told you that really ? OK, you might be right. Then you win, Anne! Because I strongly believeyou are eternal! In 2099, I promise to still be there to check whether you actually win that challenge! After, I'll retire and you must promise me to continue to head the Ensisheim operations. And I agree you ask Marcin to help you! You and him are indestructible! B...! Zelimir PS: Marcin ? Comments ? Impactika impact...@aol.com a écrit : Hey!!! You said: Hey, do you know that Marcin is the only one from the many dealers/collectors who already reserved his table in Ensisheim for the next 10 years to come? No, he is not! You told me my table was reserved until the year 2099!!! That's even more faith in the future! ;-) Bises. Anne In a message dated 07/05/11 09:04:01 Mountain Daylight Time, zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr writes: I have in collection exactly 87 meteorites coming from Marcin's magic offers (including 4 or 5 TS and a couple of meteorite coins). All excellent quality and super preparation, especially his magicpolish! (so to say...) He is one of my most preferred suppliers (I don't say the most to not offend anyone of you!). Congratulations Marcin for these first 10 years. Now that you are oiled, you can go ahead for lng years. Hey, do you know that Marcin is the only one from the many dealers/collectors who already reserved his table in Ensisheim for the next 10 years to come? That is what we could call to have faithin future, perhaps, but in himself, for sure! Good going! Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
Hi Arnaud, Atacama is the current synonym of Imilac (London NHM Catalog- Grady et al). See: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=12025 Look at the end of the writeup for all other synonyms of Imilac. Perou is not mentioned...(see below) Note that Copiapo is another meteorite having the same synonym Atacama. See, e.g.: G. Watson, 1938: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1077155/pdf/pnas01800-0010.pdf However, Copiapo is an IAB iron (silicated) and its recognized synonym is rather Atacama Desert or Desert of Atacama (Grady, op. cit.). Also, Copiapo (20 kg chunk) was discovered in 1863 (thus after 1842 but before 1866) For other Imilac synonym possibilities and variants, see: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php On your picture 1, the three iron samples as shown neither resemble a pallasite in general nor imilac in particular. But you should better know, by perhaps better examining these specimans and/or searching for some olivine remanents. Now against Imilac is the analysis repoprted by Wasson (THE world iron meteorite specialist): Fe: 90%; Ni: 9.9%; Ga: 21.1 ppm; Ge: 46 ppm and Ir: 0.071 ppm (and NO chromium mentioned) which is definitely different from the analysis you are mentioning (Turner) Regarding Perou, this name was never reported for Imilac, though the 3 pictures you show in link 2 are by all means Imilac (very typical!). I tried to find out a meteorite having as synonym Perou (or Pérou, or Peru...) but failed (would need more time and patience) In conclusion, after this 15-20 min searching the literature I have here on hand (Mulhouse), it seems that the Perou (link 2) is most probably Imilac (but only from visual comparison) while the Atacama (link 1), although official synonym of Imilac, neither corresponds from pics comparison (though your pics are not fully clear as prints), nor regarding its Ni analysis I hope this helps to promote to some extent the schmilblick Bonne chance Zelimir (Note: after writing this, I noticed a few other replies. Seems link N°2 is well confirmed as Imilac. However, part of the mystery remains ragarding samples from link 1 ) r...@free.fr a écrit : Hi List, I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my first post. I must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle of an heated discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW France -Airbus main factory and office are here- but where people know how to relax. Toulouse is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the Academy of the Floral Games or College of the Happy Science, in 1323! I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his meteorite manuscripts blog if you haven't already. Aside from my main study, that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and Museum. The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely renovated a few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have here about a half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized Ausson samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur (EH5) that fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr We have some trouble to identify 2 meteorites from the Museum, that's why I'm calling for help. Many of you have seen lots of meteorites and you may specifically recognize these stones before or have information that may lead to their identification. I give below all the information I have (be careful, some may be erroneous) and links to pictures. #1: so called Atacama, sometimes with Perou attached 3 irons, 8,5+1,7+0,5 g acquired by the Museum possibly before 1842, certainly before 1866 Fragment of the mass kept in Vienna. Analyzed by Turner: Fe 93,40, Ni 6,62, Cr 0,54 http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/atacam10.jpg #2: so called Perou 1 iron, possibly a weathered pallassite, 15 g acquired in 1958 or later http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/parou10.jpg Hope you can help! Renaud __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
Hi Carl, Atacama is not mentioned as synonym for North Chile in the MetBull database: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=north+chilesfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=17001 But I did not search elsewhere, nor I have on hand Haag's calatogs. On the other hand, Arnaud is mentioning ther the 3 unknown samples were acquired by the Toulouse museum certainly before 1866 while North Chile was reported to have been found in 1875 It could be interesting to look for the Ni % in North Chile, just in case... Zelimir cdtuc...@cox.net a écrit : Arnaud, According to Bob Haag's Field Guide Of Meteorites in both the 10th and 12th editions Bob lists the number 1 meteorite as Atacama, North Chile and says it is a Hexaheddrite. Based on this info and Bob's vast amount of experience. If I wanted a piece of Atacama , I would be looking for a piece of North Chile. And it looks like the pictures you show as well. Carl Meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr wrote: Hi Arnaud, Atacama is the current synonym of Imilac (London NHM Catalog- Grady et al). See: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=12025 Look at the end of the writeup for all other synonyms of Imilac. Perou is not mentioned...(see below) Note that Copiapo is another meteorite having the same synonym Atacama. See, e.g.: G. Watson, 1938: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1077155/pdf/pnas01800-0010.pdf However, Copiapo is an IAB iron (silicated) and its recognized synonym is rather Atacama Desert or Desert of Atacama (Grady, op. cit.). Also, Copiapo (20 kg chunk) was discovered in 1863 (thus after 1842 but before 1866) For other Imilac synonym possibilities and variants, see: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php On your picture 1, the three iron samples as shown neither resemble a pallasite in general nor imilac in particular. But you should better know, by perhaps better examining these specimans and/or searching for some olivine remanents. Now against Imilac is the analysis repoprted by Wasson (THE world iron meteorite specialist): Fe: 90%; Ni: 9.9%; Ga: 21.1 ppm; Ge: 46 ppm and Ir: 0.071 ppm (and NO chromium mentioned) which is definitely different from the analysis you are mentioning (Turner) Regarding Perou, this name was never reported for Imilac, though the 3 pictures you show in link 2 are by all means Imilac (very typical!). I tried to find out a meteorite having as synonym Perou (or Pérou, or Peru...) but failed (would need more time and patience) In conclusion, after this 15-20 min searching the literature I have here on hand (Mulhouse), it seems that the Perou (link 2) is most probably Imilac (but only from visual comparison) while the Atacama (link 1), although official synonym of Imilac, neither corresponds from pics comparison (though your pics are not fully clear as prints), nor regarding its Ni analysis I hope this helps to promote to some extent the schmilblick Bonne chance Zelimir (Note: after writing this, I noticed a few other replies. Seems link N°2 is well confirmed as Imilac. However, part of the mystery remains ragarding samples from link 1 ) r...@free.fr a écrit : Hi List, I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my first post. I must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle of an heated discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW France -Airbus main factory and office are here- but where people know how to relax. Toulouse is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the Academy of the Floral Games or College of the Happy Science, in 1323! I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his meteorite manuscripts blog if you haven't already. Aside from my main study, that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and Museum. The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely renovated a few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have here about a half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized Ausson samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur (EH5) that fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr We have some trouble to identify 2 meteorites from the Museum, that's why I'm
Re: [meteorite-list] Currently used classification scheme - Divisions
Hi Jim, Shawn, all We had last Saturday in Ensisheim (meteorite show) a nice talk about the Dawn mission. It was entitled: Vesta,Vestoids and HEDS: Waiting for Dawn. It dealt with various issues, among which relationships between HED's and Vesta, but also (and mainly) other Vestoids. Perhaps you may want to contact our speaker, Vishnu Reddy (PhD research faculty at the Department of Space Studies, University of North Dakota, presently member of the Dawn Framing Camera team at the Max-Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Germany). His research interests include compositional study of asteroids and asteroid-meteorite links, and, in particular, studying the composition of the surface of Vesta. Vishnu is the (very kind end expertized) person who might want to tell you more. I can provide his direct mail contact on request, off list. For general info on the Dawn mission and Vishnu's involvements, click here and follow the links: http://www.dawn.mps.mpg.de/index.php?id=21L=1 Kind regards, Zelimir Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com a écrit : Thank you for this, Shawn. My references were from the work Rose did in the 1860's and forward. I think the current schema follows this somewhat as Weisberg points out. I think maybe not enough is known to classify at the higher division levels, thus the disagreements and the lack of unity at these levels and unwillingness to change??? It appears at lower levels, documents all around tend to speak the same language and have commonality. In part of my working life, commonality and correct terminology could have meant the difference between life and death in a matter of a few secondswhich has made me very critical when I do not see it. Classification must remain fluid and not get stuck on the journey. The work on the IAB-complex meteorites, it's groups and grouplets, etc., for example, need to be represented in new systematic diagrams that I have yet to see in any documentation, not that I've read them all, I am sure. I'd sure love to see one I could hang on my wall! I find this sort of diagram a value added asset while I study meteorites. I hope Dawn is the being of a new era in classification. And it is becoming to be very exciting to watch what happens as Dawn approaches! Simply awesome. Wouldn't it be nice to land, drill and retrieve a deep core sample! Back to honey-do's Kind Regards, Jim Wooddell On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Jim and Listers While we are on the topic of meteorite classification here is some historical information about classification of meteorites. De Drée, 1803: The First Meteorite Classification De Drée took a great interest in meteorites and immediately began to work out a classification of them based chiefly on their materials, as reported by Howard and Vauquelin, and the circumstances of their falls. He distinguished the following four classes (de Drée 1803b:410): Class I: Stones consisting of similar materials that fell in serene weather without thunderstorms: Salles, Ensisheim, Barbotan, Benares, Wold Cottage. Class II: Stones of the same materials as class I but which fell from enflamed clouds with lightning flashes with or without detonations: Siena, Tabor. Class III: Masses mainly of malleable iron, of which the only observed fall occurred at Agram in Croatia after a fireball and an explosion followed by rumbling sounds. Class IV: All masses for which the circumstances of fall are not verified and their compositions fall outside those of the first three classes or are uncertain: his list of about 20 included the irons found in Siberia, Argentina, and Senegal; stones from observed falls including Lucé, Eichstädt, and Portugal, and about a dozen historical accounts taken mainly from Chladni. De Drée’s attempt illustrates the importance given at that early time to the circumstances of falls as though they might have genetic significance. It also shows the immensity of the labors that lay ahead in efforts to understand meteorites and construct meaningful classifications of them. Source: Ernst Florens Friedrich Chladni (1756–1827) and the origins of modern meteorite research by Ursula B. MARVIN I wondering if the Dawn project will shed new light on classification of meteorites from Vesta or in general? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Currently used classification scheme - DivisionsJim Wooddell jimwooddell at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 20:39:50 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Cassini Captures Ice Queen Helene Next message: [meteorite-list] Currently used classification scheme - Divisions Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi all, I am looking for some information in regards to the Division of Meteorites in the currently used classification scheme. It is my understanding that there are currently 3 divisions
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim last news
G'day List, It all starts in less than 3 days! Hope this info can reach some of you who live within our time zone, believing that the othyer significant number of our overseas guests is about to start flying... 1) The sad news came today. For the first time, our Grand-Maître, Jean-Marie Blosser (head of the Guardians) has to cancel Indeed, since this morning he is in hospital for at least one week (if all goes well). Serious problems. I'll know more tomorrow as soon as I visited him. Of course, nothing is cancelled and the few of us will do it for him, for better of for worse. (For the best, of course!) 2) We had a new proposal for a lecture, an offer we could not refuse. Two famous scientists, namely Prof. Vishnu Reddy and Dr. Lucille Le Corre, from Germany will visit us on Friday-Saturday. They are primarily looking for HED Fall samples that are not too weathered. They are trying to create a spectral database of HED samples to analyze Dawn mission data of Vesta The exciting title of their lecture is: Vesta,Vestoids and HEDS: Waiting for Dawn. You may want more on the Dawn shortcoming mission ? Here is a short summary of their talk: Vesta is the largest differentiated asteroid that is still mostly intact today. NASA's Dawn mission will begin a yearlong mapping mission of Vesta in July 2011. The talk will summarize our current understanding of Vesta based on telescopic observations, laboratory study of HED meteorites and compositional study of Vestoids Want to know more about the authors ? Vishnu Reddy is a research faculty at the Department of Space Studies, University of North Dakota, USA, and a member of the Dawn Framing Camera team at the Max-Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Germany. His research interests include compositional study of asteroids and asteroid-meteorite link. Lucille Le Corre also works at Max Planck (Solar System Research). She is part of the team of the instrument FC (Framing Camera) Dawn of the NASA mission. Her specific research project concerns the study of planetary surfaces by remote sensing leading to the analyzis of their geology and composition. This lecture is scheduled on Saturday, 11:00 3) 4 new brothers had to get enthroned this year: Martin Horejsi (Pocatello, UT), Fabien Kuntz (Besançon, F) and Guy Verlooven (Malonne, B), our other lecturer. The fourth was our friend Erich Haiderer (Graz, A) but a couple of days ago he cancelled his coming. He anounced he can't make it as his 4x4 landcruiser, following an attempted theft, just had a huge differential destruction. 4) I may have some tables free after the withdrawal of Erich and Luc Labenne, while Hobein and Ismaily, who use to have their tables permanently reserved, desperately remain silent. Current last minutes vagaries of every show... 5) On a more pleasent note, more than 90 people from all over the world had reserved for the dinner party. Note that, besides the 3 menus (poultry, beef and...vegetarian), 3 brands of beer will be served: amber, white, and a special lemmon-based, mostly appreciated by women. For connoisseurs, besides the traditional Pinot Gris and Pinot Noir Meteorite cold wines, 2 specific reds are proposed: Château Vieux Charon 1ère côte de Blaye (Bordeaux,...ho Anne ?) and Calomb Jean Gleizes (région d'Oc). 6) Weather forecast: Thu 16th: Max T: 28°C (80 F), sunny (20% chances rain) Fri 17th: Max T: 24°C (75 F), sunny, light rain late afternoon Sat 18th: Max T: 23°C (73 F), cloudy, 60% chances scattered showers Thu 19th: Max T: 22°C (72 F), sunny, 10% chances rain Mon 20th: Max T: 27°C (78 F), sunny, 0% chances rain 7) Call for unusual or showy NWA samples for the museum display (show theme): pieces always wanted. But write first asap with details or write your own label. The display is set up on Friday. 8) Concerning museum and samples. In a neat future, the Guradians wish to extend their museum (that so far contains one single meteorite, though a very famous one (!!)). A coiple of new windows will soon be set and will be ready to host many meteorite samples so as to complete a decent display. The guardians thought that perhaps the other enthroned brother-guardians from all around the world might help this by providing some extra surplus meteorite samples sleeping in their drawers and wanting to get rid of them Medium or long term loan or donation would be highly appreciated. Donated samples will carry their defnite acknowledged labels with the name of the donor mentioned for centuries to come. Not a requirement, just a persuasive suggestion... No hurries though, just bear in mind... That's all folks. Cause for the next news, you all will be the players! Still 2 (short) nights to sleep! My ever friendly wishes to all, Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim last news
Sorry if this comes twice -- G'day List, It all starts in less than 3 days! Hope this info can reach some of you who live within our time zone, believing that the othyer significant number of our overseas guests is about to start flying... 1) The sad news came today. For the first time, our Grand-Maître, Jean-Marie Blosser (head of the Guardians) has to cancel Indeed, since this morning he is in hospital for at least one week (if all goes well). Serious problems. I'll know more tomorrow as soon as I visited him. Of course, nothing is cancelled and the few of us will do it for him, for better of for worse. (For the best, of course!) 2) We had a new proposal for a lecture, an offer we could not refuse. Two famous scientists, namely Prof. Vishnu Reddy and Dr. Lucille Le Corre, from Germany will visit us on Friday-Saturday. They are primarily looking for HED Fall samples that are not too weathered. They are trying to create a spectral database of HED samples to analyze Dawn mission data of Vesta The exciting title of their lecture is: Vesta,Vestoids and HEDS: Waiting for Dawn. You may want more on the Dawn shortcoming mission ? Here is a short summary of their talk: Vesta is the largest differentiated asteroid that is still mostly intact today. NASA's Dawn mission will begin a yearlong mapping mission of Vesta in July 2011. The talk will summarize our current understanding of Vesta based on telescopic observations, laboratory study of HED meteorites and compositional study of Vestoids Want to know more about the authors ? Vishnu Reddy is a research faculty at the Department of Space Studies, University of North Dakota, USA, and a member of the Dawn Framing Camera team at the Max-Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Germany. His research interests include compositional study of asteroids and asteroid-meteorite link. Lucille Le Corre also works at Max Planck (Solar System Research). She is part of the team of the instrument FC (Framing Camera) Dawn of the NASA mission. Her specific research project concerns the study of planetary surfaces by remote sensing leading to the analyzis of their geology and composition. This lecture is scheduled on Saturday, 11:00 3) 4 new brothers had to get enthroned this year: Martin Horejsi (Pocatello, UT), Fabien Kuntz (Besançon, F) and Guy Verlooven (Malonne, B), our other lecturer. The fourth was our friend Erich Haiderer (Graz, A) but a couple of days ago he cancelled his coming. He anounced he can't make it as his 4x4 landcruiser, following an attempted theft, just had a huge differential destruction. 4) I may have some tables free after the withdrawal of Erich and Luc Labenne, while Hobein and Ismaily, who use to have their tables permanently reserved, desperately remain silent. Current last minutes vagaries of every show... 5) On a more pleasent note, more than 90 people from all over the world had reserved for the dinner party. Note that, besides the 3 menus (poultry, beef and...vegetarian), 3 brands of beer will be served: amber, white, and a special lemmon-based, mostly appreciated by women. For connoisseurs, besides the traditional Pinot Gris and Pinot Noir Meteorite cold wines, 2 specific reds are proposed: Château Vieux Charon 1ère côte de Blaye (Bordeaux,...ho Anne ?) and Calomb Jean Gleizes (région d'Oc). 6) Weather forecast: Thu 16th: Max T: 28°C (80 F), sunny (20% chances rain) Fri 17th: Max T: 24°C (75 F), sunny, light rain late afternoon Sat 18th: Max T: 23°C (73 F), cloudy, 60% chances scattered showers Thu 19th: Max T: 22°C (72 F), sunny, 10% chances rain Mon 20th: Max T: 27°C (78 F), sunny, 0% chances rain 7) Call for unusual or showy NWA samples for the museum display (show theme): pieces always wanted. But write first asap with details or write your own label. The display is set up on Friday. 8) Concerning museum and samples. In a neat future, the Guradians wish to extend their museum (that so far contains one single meteorite, though a very famous one (!!)). A coiple of new windows will soon be set and will be ready to host many meteorite samples so as to complete a decent display. The guardians thought that perhaps the other enthroned brother-guardians from all around the world might help this by providing some extra surplus meteorite samples sleeping in their drawers and wanting to get rid of them Medium or long term loan or donation would be highly appreciated. Donated samples will carry their defnite acknowledged labels with the name of the donor mentioned for centuries to come. Not a requirement, just a persuasive suggestion... No hurries though, just bear in mind... That's all folks. Cause for the next news, you all will be the players! Still 2 (short) nights to sleep! My ever friendly wishes to all, Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite issuffering
List, Related to all these versatile (contradictory or at least sometimes unrelated) comments about the NWA meteorite market/business, may I recall you that Ensisheim 2011 meeting will feature this year NWA Bonanza meteorites ? I anticipate at least that this theme will generate a lot of discussion/debates/rumors Perhaps also (who knows ?) we will still see on the tables some meteorite survivors from the NWA? Btw, seems we'll have less dealers coming directly from the NWA (Hey Aziz, come on, what are you waiting for ?) As always in Ensi, fun more than ever guaranteed Zelimir habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com a écrit : al wrote Sorry but most dealers have the customers to sell to and not lone sales from the desert sands. Best --- all what you see as AD or sales on the list on facebook , or ebay or auction, are not the only meteorite that goes out of nwa, if you see what went out of nwa you will be amazed , lunar and martian not yet classified incredible orionted meteorite crazy shapes,iron not classified , beauty of all kind. ebay and websites is the last place where you can get rarities,i can tell you i have a user id in ebay from 1999 habfossile i didn't use it from that time, nwa dealers have there custmers and they serve them first,with priority,when a good and raremeteorite or a beauty show up , there is prioritys al,and fidelite what you see sliced and normal stuffs in ebay and website is not all,this is only about 30/100 of sales the rarity's is an other theory, each nwa dealer has his friend dealers and collectors:!! take care aziz __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, WHAT is Amiss
List, Habib, and Darkangel will also give in Ensisheim a talk describing his method. I am right now personally involved with Darkangel (whom we here also use to call Magnetix though his name is Guy Verlooven) in many experiments to test his method with hundreds of certified meteorites, including my 6.3 g full slice of Mifflin (got from Larry Atkins and fully documented). Details on these Ensi activities here: http://www.meteorite2011.karamako.net (click on English flyer) Best wishes (after another 10 days of mail link logout) Zelimir (initials really needed ?) Habib Gupta faustoguilhe...@gmail.com a écrit : Hello all! One of the members of the french speaking meteorite forum ( http://meteorites.superforum.fr/forum ), conceived an instrument based on the magnetic susceptibility of the meteorites that can easily distinguish between an H and an L chondrite. It only needs a flat surface of 15 mm of diameter to work. It can be a window cut or some flat area of the crust (not uncommon, right?) So, even fully crusted stones can be tested! Nice, isn't it? It can even tell apart or pair stones. The great advantage is that it is a non-destructive test. As the member of the forum has the pseudo Darkangel, his instrument is likely to be called Darkometer :) Darkangel and his Darkometer will be at the Ensishein fair, performing tests to demonstrate the utility of such device. Cheers! Saludos! Sanscelerien On 08-05-2011 21:36, Michael Blood wrote: Re Mifflin, I Bought a hand full of small specimens on ebay that were nothing more than hot rocks. It pissed me off, but I figured the guy was a dumb ass rather that fraudulent and just threw them away. It wasn't worth going through PayPal procedures. Someone said the Joe Kerchner issue should be solved By a photo in situ next to a GPS unit. Well, that is not how All hunters process finds. One should not be REQUIRED to Purchase a GPS unit and digital camera to find meteorites. AND it is unreasonable to expect Someone to PROVE innocence. Prove guilt if that is your Thing, but asking someone to prove they are innocent is Not how we do things in the ol' U S of A. Michael On 5/8/11 9:06 AM, Adam Huperaremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: When purchasing artifacts, I learned that the more lengthy a seller's explanation is, the more likely you are dealing with a fraudster. When the story is long-winded as is the case with this bogus Mifflin, I immediately become cautious. It is rare for dealers of genuine artifacts to go into more detail than is necessary. The truth is much easier to tell than a lie and doesn't require senseless backup explanations. In this day and age, why would anybody deal with somebody they have never met and send cash to a P.O. Box without first receiving the product? Nobody likes to cut completely crusted stones so it is difficult to asses what lays under a fresh fusion crust. A magnet might help a little bit. It really is a matter of trust and it seems this trust is being violated frequently these days when it comes to falls. It is not fair to the people in the field spending hundreds of hours finding legitimate stones to have some con artist purchase pieces for 1/100th the cost and then passing them off as a different fall. The meteorite fall market is so thin, one counterfeit can do widespread damage. Now some collectors will question the authenticity of their Mifflin pieces and other recent falls unless they know the exact circumstances of where the meteorite was found and by whom. It is too bad a few Filthy, Greedy, Con-Artists have infiltrated this semi-exclusive market which is based on trust! The buck stops with the person that initially brought these phoneys to market. Time to take out the trash! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 27, 2011
Very nice! Michael, please cen you tell Mike my appreciation (I have not his mail on hand right now) and suggest him to show this picture while he will be giving his lecture (Hunting meteorites in Oman) here in Ensisheim next June 18. Thank you! Zelimir Michael Johnson mich...@rocksfromspace.org a écrit : http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_27_2011.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Special: New uncommon Martian meteorite - NWA6710 prov.
Hi Greg, Here is the writeup from my collection catalog about NWA 5960: NWA 5960 (Mali, o-Shergottite, depl. pmaf ol-phy), found 2009, tkw: 1@147 g. Zelimir (will be in touch with you again tomorrow) Greg Hupe gmh...@centurylink.net a écrit : Hello Martin, Congrats on the NWA 6710 Martian! I am saddened to hear about the stolen NWA 5960 pairing. I only just heard about this today and here through your announcement. What was the weight of 5960? I heard who the stone was shipped to and who the Moroccan dealer is. If this is a clear-cut case of theft by the recipient, then that person's name should be made known to all dealers, collectors and police if possible. I do not know any details, you know more than I do and I am sure you are helping the Moroccan dealer who was ripped off either by the shipping company or the recipient. This kind of behavior should not be tolerated. I hope the thief, whoever it is, finds a conscience and sends the stone back to the rightful owner! In the possibility that it got lost in shipping by the carrier, lets hope the wayward package, with stone, finds its way to the recipient or back to the Moroccan owner! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 -Original Message- From: Chladnis Heirs Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 4:54 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Special: New uncommon Martian meteorite - NWA6710 prov. Good Day meteorite and planetary lovers, Proudly we announce, that our next Martian has arrived, is sliced and grinded already and waits now for flying into your collection! NWA 6710 (provisional) will be its name and according the newer more systematic nomenclature it is a Intermediate Permafic Olivine-Phyric Shergottite. Already a first glance reveals, that NWA 6710 doesn’t meet the usual viewing habits for shergottites and that it must be in several aspects a fairly uncommon material. We see a matrix of very fresh appearance, which is so incredibly fine-grained that macroscopically it almost looks uniformly. Very sparsely we find a few patches of dark maskelynite, though the clou of this Martian is: Over and over it is peppered with fine olivines of an intensive pastel green! An amazing stone. The planetary connoisseur is immediately aware: there is only one such Martian – it has to be a pairing of NWA 2990. This grouplet consist of four members; NWA 2990, NWA 5960, NWA 6234 and now NWA 6710. NWA 2990 is long ago gone. NWA 5960 had a tragic fate, the main mass was stolen in mail (a fate, which makes us all angry as it happened by such a stupidity. Such a stone is absolutely unsalable for any thief and it is the rarest matter on the globe, almost irreplaceable. Please alert us or the owner immediately for the case, that such material will be offered to you). And NWA 6234 seems already to be sold out too. The characteristics of the entire stones were, that they are covered with a very green skin. Only NWA 2990 had one side with a good black fusion crust, while NWA 5960 and NWA 6234 were naked. Not so our new NWA 6710, it has some dark fusion crust left, but worn and not so fine preserved as with NWA 2990. Internally all stones are very fresh. NWA 6710 prov. has a tkw of 74 grams. Astonishingly few is published yet about the NWA 2990-group, we think, that will change now with the recent finds. So that we can refer you at the moment only to the introductory paper for NWA 2990 from two years ago, where you can find the essential details about this uncommon Mars rock: T. E. Bunch, A. J. Irving, J. H. Wittke, D.Rumble, III, R. L. Korotev, M. Gellissen and H. Palme: PETROLOGY AND COMPOSITION OF NORTHWEST AFRICA 2990: A NEW TYPE OF FINEGRAINED, ENRICHED, OLIVINE-PHYRIC SHERGOTTITE. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2274.pdf In medias res, here you find our complete stock of available slices - from the complete cross sections http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/specials/special-nwa6710.html down to smallest partial slices, small but more than meaningful enough to serve for more than a sole place holder of the number. http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/specials/special-nwa6710-2.html And the best is, although it is a fresh and fairly uncommon shergottite, it costs only half as much as our recent three Martians went for. You'll love it! Best regards, Stefan Martin Martin Altmann Stefan Ralew Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2011 info
ENSISHEIM ?METEORITE 2011? NEWS (April 21, 2011) Dear meteorite friends, My recent relative silence on the mail is basically due to family health problems (through personally I am in good shape) that had required my constant presence in Belgium, far from Mulhouse (where I basically achieved teaching activities) and thus from mail contact facilities. I want to apologize to you all who sent me messages that I haven?t answered yet. I?ll try to be in contact soon by answering specifically your questions or requests. Please find heredown the official announcement of the 12th edition of our ?ENSISHEIM SHOW? that I traditionally use to forward to all of you who are on my mailing list. Your recent requests and questions regarding this henceforth-unavoidable event argue for your intact interest that we all meet again in the little cozy city of Ensisehim that is housing, since almost 520 years, probably the most famous meteorite of the Solar system! I am fully confident that many of us will gather again to celebrate the next Spring-Summer transition by sharing our (old, new or renewed) passions for extraterrestrial objects of asteroidal or planetary origin (meteorites) or from true terrestrial sources (tektites, impactites). Yes, definitely, « Ensisheim 2011 » is well scheduled for next June, now 12 years in a row. As every year, here you will find again, as a preview (only for you!), a summary of the main characteristics of this 12th edition. - SHOW DATES: Saturday June 18 (9:30-18:00) and Sunday June 19 (9:30-16:00), 2011 (the weekend preceding the famous ?Ste Marie-aux-Mines? mineral show that is held relatively nearby (~ 80 km). SHOW MAIN THEME: ?NWA: The Saharan Meteorite Bonanza? SIDE THEME: ?Electromagnetic properties of meteorites? FRIDAY ACTIVITIES Friday 17th is the DEALER?S DAY devoted for tables/booth set up. As last year, the Regency Palace rooms are exclusively open to dealers (14:00 - 18:30), and NOT to the public. - Note 1: Entrance exceptionally allowed to occasional visitors for justified reasons, on request (entrance fee) - Note 2: dealers can also (continue to) set up their booths on Saturday 18th morning (7:30 ? 9:30) before the official show opening. New: This year the Regency Palace rooms as well as the entire electrical system are significantly renovated and modernized. The Regency Palace rooms close on Friday 18:30 and all the opening ceremonies then start on the main square: inaugural address, enthroning ceremonies, friendly drink offered to dealers invited friends? This year, a giant cake having the rough shape of the original Ensisheim meteorite (!) will be baked. A portion is offered to anybody accepting to quench his thirst with a glass of fresh ?Pinot Gris?? FRIDAY DINNER PARTY The traditional Friday Dinner Party starts at 20:00 on the main square, inside the large tent, thus almost in the open air (the mini cold wave experienced in 2010 is relatively unlikely, though scattered (thunder)storms are never excluded in hot Summer days (ask Bob Haag in 2001!) Two meals (appetizer + beef or fowl (poultry) + desert (cook?s surprise) selectively prepared by the owner of the nearby restaurant Le Boeuf Rouge are proposed for a friendly price, not yet specified but around 13 euro (about US $ 18-20), beverage not included (for some ?obscure? reasons?) Beer is unlimited (you bet!). This year the ?Meteor? beer (though famous by name) is replaced by the excellent new brand ?Storky?: white beer, amber beer, as well as a ?special meteorite vintage 2011?. And there will be also some very pleasant fruit-based lighter and very refreshing beer ?for women? (but also strongly recommended for men, especially after midnight?). The recommended wines always include our 2 traditional specifically labeled vintages Ensisheim-Meteorite 1492 Pinot Gris (white) and Ensisheim-Meteorite 1492 Pinot Noir (red), with the famous meteorite fall painting on label. Other red wines that traditionally accompany meat-based menus (Bordeaux) will be available. Party can end any time (possibly before the meteorite hot rush the next morning) Everybody (kings, presidents, organizers, dealers, relatives, close friends, distant friends, desert explorers, unknowns, tramps, outlaws (?),... attending (or not) the dealer's day enthroning ceremonies the friendly drink, is warmly welcome! Special invitation to citizens from NWA! (fleeing dictators, please inquire first?) Please, let me know (e.g. by mail) early enough, ideally before June 12 (slightly flexible deadline), if you want to attend the dinner-party, HOW MANY GUESTS you will bring and WHICH MENU (beef or poultry) you would prefer. THIS RESERVATION IS A MUST, for obvious reasons (total number of guests, menu selection and preparation). But please reserve only if you are (almost) sure to attend so that we can fully
[meteorite-list] (Test)
Test (sorry, please delete) Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Trying to contact Joe Kerchner Ensisheim show
Dear List, Sorry to have to use this kind of contact. I am desperately trying to contact Joe Kerchner for a very urgent reason. Apparently he does not receive any of my numerous mails while I can read him perfectly. Possibly there is a problem with his mail box? Today, he tried to contact me through the list. I replied (him specifically) but he still can't read me. Could someone from the list help me in concacting Joe and tell him that he should try to find out a way to read my messages? But through this message I believe Joe can (finally!) read me ? Or is somebody willing me to receive my message for Joe and send him (in case it is my server that is responsible for the lack of contact) ? Thanks to all! Zelimir --- PS: for the numerous persons wanting to know the dates of Ensisheim show, here they are: Friday June 17th to Sunday 19th Theme: NWA: the Saharan meteorites bonanza Lectures: 1) Mike Farmer: Meteorite hunting in deserts: real danger ! (you guess what will be the real topic!) 2) Guy Verlooven: Magnetic and electric behavior of meteorites (tentative) A detailed program will be sent soon to the List and through IMCA, as well as the link to the corresponding flyer. Personalized answers to all all applicants will follow off list. Thanks very much! Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] test 1 (please delete)
test __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Temperature of meteorites
Thanks Bernd. From your data we have as score: warm: 14 versus hot: 8 I believe this can be completed by browsing through other archives or accounts of some recent witnessed falls ? Are there data reporting cold, frozen or alike meteorites ? Take care, Zelimir bernd.pa...@paulinet.de a écrit : Good morning Listees, Listoids, Listers, Here's a copy of something I posted many years ago (maybe 2004). Cheers, Bernd --- Meteorites - warm or hot to the touch? 01) The Binningup meteorite was recovered within a few minutes of the fall and was reported to have been warm to the touch. 02) Cabin Creek: Three hours after the fall, Mr. and Mrs. Shandy were able to find the hole and excavate the mass, reportedly still uncomfortably warm. 03) Glatton: was warm, not hot, when first picked up. 04) Gurram Konda: near the tent some small warm stones, which the Sentry has seen falling down. 05) Juromenha: The mass was said to have been incandescent when discovered and still warm when recovered next morning 06) L'Aigle: Affrighted persons who picked them up found the stones to be very warm and smelling of sulfur. 07) Limerick: It was immediately dug up, and I have been informed by those that were present, and on whom I could rely, that it was then warm and had a sulphurous smell. 08) Middlesbrough: The stone was new-milk warm when found, ... 09) Noblesville: The meteorite was not glowing as it passed the boys and was slightly warm when Spaulding picked it up a few seconds after it fell. 10) Pettiswood: The affrighted horse fell to the Earth, and two boys rushed to him in terror carrying fragments that Bingley found to be warm as milk just from the cow. 11) Pontlyfni: When I picked up the fragment of metal, or whatever it is, it was warm in my hand. 12) Rowton: It is, moreover, stated that when Mr. Brooks found the mass it was quite warm. 13) Tsukuba: Seconds later student Ryutaro Araki stopped to retrieve a still-warm stone that had fallen in front of his car near Tsukuba 14) Wold Cottage: Rushing to the spot he found a large stone, warm and smoking and smelling of sulfur. 15) Crumlin: When dug out the object, which had embedded itself in a straightdownward course for 13 inches, was found to be quite hot, continuing so for about an hour. 16) Eichstädt: The man rushed to the spot but found the black stone too hot to pick up until it cooled in the snow. 17) Hanau: A hot stone the size of a pea was picked up, weight 0.37 gr. 18) Harrogate: A hot stone, like basalt, fell accompanied by whistling in the air and lightning and thunder ... 19) Holbrook: One piece larger than an orange fell into a tree in a yard at Aztec cutting the limb off slick and clean and falling to the ground, and when picked up was almost red-hot. Von Achen, who saw them fall, reported that they were too hot to pick up. Two accounts state that they became lighter in color after cooling. 20) Lucé: several harvesters, startled by sudden thunderclaps and a loud hissing noise, looked up and saw the stone plunge into a field where they found it half-buried and too hot to pick up. 21) Magombedze: A 10-cm stone weighing approximately 600 gr survived the impact intact and was hot to touch. 22) Menziswyl: The farmers say that the stone fell with the lightning and shattered when it hit the ground; it was hot when they picked it up. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Munich 2010
Hi Peter, Philippe Schmitt-Kopplin and myself will be visiting GEOFA on Friday 29. Hope to see you there and share with you some good local lager... Best wishes, Zelimir At 15:06 06/10/2010, Peter Davidson wrote: Hi Listees Anyone going this year? Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals Department of Natural Sciences National Museums Collection Centre 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Scotland Tel: 00 44 131 247 4283 E-mail: p.david...@nms.ac.uk Shining Lights, the story of Scotlands lighthouses starts 15 October at the National Museum of Scotland. www.nms.ac.uk/shininglights National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Planetary Pairings...some facts, some guesses
Hi Martin, list, NWA 3163 IS paired with NWA 4483 and 4881 (Korotev Met. Bull.). All the other unpaired from your compilations are correct. This being and, on another note, because NWA 4483 was quasi certified having been found in Algeria (Ralew and also Met. Bull. database), I guess it is also so with its two pairings? In Met. Bull. database, both NWA 3163 and NWA 4881 are reported coming from Algeria or Mauritania. Wouldn't it then be right to claim that all three come from Algeria ? Would this conclusion hold based on an as simple statement ? Not sure Let's now consider more in depth the above (rather simple) pairing issue. Here are the purchase circumstances for the three paired meteorites (MetBull database): NWA 3163: Purchased by Hupé in Ouarzazate, in 2005 NWA 4483: Purchased by Ralew in Erfoud, in 2006 NWA 4881: Purchased by Ralew in Ouarzazate, in 2007 This suggests that a Lunar found somewhere between Mauritania and Algeria or somewhere in between ? (these 2 countries do share a common border), pre 2005, was brought to Ourzazate where sold to two different dealers (probably by two different vendors) in an interval of two years, while the same meteorite was also sold (probably by a third person) to Ralew in Erfoud in 2006. Excellent example of a meteorite walking from one vendor to another, from one place to another, with time, to finally reach different dealers. Whatever it be, it is amazing that science is today able to (start to) reconstitute (partly) this meteorite and define its identity and status from an independent sophisticated analysis of the 3 NWA samples that wandered independently in space and time, ending up independently in the basket of different dealers who gave it for classification to different institutes, who eventually came into conclusion that it is the (probably) the very same meteorite. This is a real performance and confirms that Greg Hupé is right when he decides to have every fragment of an important meteorite probed for its O isotopic abundance. But...what a waste of time and money! Wouldn't it be far more simple that once a meteorite is found, all the fragments are assembled by the finder and sold (or distributed among other vendors) under the same provisional code until it is eventually classified ? We all know (from our early debating this topic) that this is totally illusory because money and personal interests would predominate over scientific interests. And, by the way, the almost happy end regarding this Lunar pairing issue was likely because it is a Lunar that is often readily classified by institutes.but this possibly suggests that most of the NWA ordinary chondrites (or even achondrites) will never get the chance to have their pairing status defined, simply because it is less interesting to study them. This perhaps explains the large number of NWA's found and their relatively low tkw's Large speculative debate Take care, Zelimir At 01:07 29/09/2010, you wrote: Though I wrote it privately... ;-) But especially the lunars and Martians, which are always checked, if they are paired, there one can see well, that there is no rule, that no stone comes alone from NWA. Some have immediate pairings, from some every few years another sample surfaces, others there suddenly after a long break of many years more comes to light. So far unpaired NWA-Martians are: NWA 817 NWA 856 NWA 998 NWA 1195 NWA 1669 NWA 1950 NWA 2046 NWA 2626 NWA 2646 NWA 2737 NWA 2800 NWA 3137 NWA 4222 NWA 4468 NWA 4480 NWA 4797 NWA 5029 NWA 5289 NWA 5718 NWA 5789 NWA 5990 NWA 6162 So from the 28 different NWA-Martian, there are only 6 which build up a pairing group. 22 are unpaired. Moon: Unpaired: NWA 482 NWA 2200 NWA 2998 NWA 3163 NWA 4734 NWA 4819 NWA 4884 NWA 4898 NWA 4932 NWA 5000 NWA 5153 NWA 5207 NWA 5744 (The NWA 773 - Anoual I lumped together) So there 13 out of 19 unpaired. Well, and as far as the general rareness of NWAs compared to historical finds/falls is concerned. To me it seems, that the NWAs in general - also if you take paired numbers together - have on average a much smaller tkw than non-desert-finds. Well one would need some ling winter-evenings to verify that. Though sometimes - tiny fragments, without any crust, non-magnetic achrondites - e.g. some of the Martians from the NWA 2975 - or if you remember the tiny peas of the NWA 1068 group, looking like sandstone. For me it's a sheer riddle, how you can find such pieces at all! Crawling on my knees through the field, I wouldn't find them. Or cause we just had it NWA 4485, NWA 4472 - all around a fat weathering crust, white like chalk. Who the heck would ever pick up such a stone from the field and suspect it to be a meteorite? It is truly amazing, what the hunters do down there. Best! Martin Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
and its a new NWN. Now you can say its rare because there is only 1000g, but do you really know that for sure? From what I have seen, its not the case, and NWAs keep getting paired with each other more time then not I think that's why I tend to stay away from NWA's for that reason and others. Plus it seems that every meteorite is unique in its own right and some bank off that uniqueness and rarity to pump up the price in the NWA market. But once more is found, that type isn't that rare anymore, so that's why I stick with the historic falls, cause that event can only happen once and there is a rich history and legacy to back up that meteorite. Also the NWA 5400 is speculated to have a connection with Earth. Now in my own opinion if this was the find of the century, wouldn't you think there would be more research papers written about this monumental find that some people praise it to be? All I can find are 2 papers and the second paper doesn't even seem that promising. Good example is Almahata Sitta. That meteorite has been around since NWA 5400 and there is so much information and papers upon papers about this meteorite, and the research hasn't stop, but for the NWA 5400, its is a trickle, 2 papers whats up with that? Again, the evidence isnt there and a swashy thought out theory, which other theories have been brough up about the NWA 5400 and where it came from, more evidence please. But at the end of the day people have their reasons why they collect and some are drawn to classifications and others to historic falls. The good thing for any collector is to do research and learn what they are going to buy before they buy it. Also they learn alot more about meteorites in the process and gain a since of understanding of where meteorites came to be. If any one has the time, check out this link below, its a great paper written by Ursula B. Marvin, explaining the beginning of meteorites from a historical and scientific perspective. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1996M%26PS...31..545M Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !Thunder Stone stanleygregr at hotmail.com Mon Sep 27 18:48:32 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Wow - this is making my head spin. It is my understanding that the O isotope data is necessary to show the relationship to the early earth-type rocks; it has to fall on the TFL. I would think this is necessary to prove a pairing to NWA 5400. Until then, it is not 100% certain. The fact that NWA 6292 IS paired to 5400 suggests that there could be more of this unique meteorite out there. Just my thoughts, Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How Many Lunar Meteorites?
Thank you once more so much Randy for that unvaluable list. I went through your complete list (first link) rapidly so as to update my collection and noticed that NWA 3186 is missing in the headings (though it is mentioned in the NWA 2977 pairings...) Do you agree and, if so, would this change the total figure ? Best wishes, Zelimir Randy Korotev koro...@wustl.edu a écrit : Dear Eric: My alphanumeric list contains 140 named stones, http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites_list_alpha.htm with the caveat that some do not actually have official names yet (e.g., Unnamed 12). They're on the list because I've analyzed them and know them to be lunar. That's the main reason that my number, 140, is larger than the MetBull number, 130. It's my hope that all the unnamed get official names someday. Does this mean there are 130 Lunar meteorites that have been recovered and classified, Ever? Stones, yes; meteorites, no. My composition-ordered list has only 68 meteorites because of known or strongly-suspected pairings. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites_list_alumina.htm Norbert Classen keeps close tabs on this and has 67 on his list (he and I both know about one that is on my list but may not be on his list yet): http://www.meteoris.de/luna/list.html So, ~68 is the total number of known lunar meteorites. That information is not easily available from the MetBull database. It sometimes takes years to establish that different named stones are or are not paired. A confusion for your calculations is that practically every individual lunar and martian meteorite stone gets it's own name and line-item in the MetBull database whereas all Allende stones have one name. Randy At 12:40 PM 8/23/2010 Monday, you wrote: Hi List, I know this has been talked about on-list but... I keep getting this question, or people that say they have found a Lunar meteorite. I'm wondering how many there actually are. I've heard numbers thrown about haphazardly, but no one has been able to give me a clear and concise answer. The Met-Bull has ...130 records found for meteorites with historical types that contain Lunar...' Does this mean there are 130 Lunar meteorites that have been recovered and classified, Ever? Or is my search flawed? (as a side note, it also says there are ...92 records found for meteorites with historical types that contain Martian...) Dr. Randy Korotev's List of Lunar Meteorites on the Washinton University website has the number at 140. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites_list_alpha.htm Just for giggles I wanted to know how many total classified meteorites there actually were on the planet. ...39146 valid meteorite names; 11959 provisional names; 4589 full-text writeups... That's a whopping 51,105 classifications. Wow! Doing some simple math, 130 Lunar meteorites out of 51,105 total classifications means that Lunars only makeup about 0.254% of the total number of meteorite ever classified. (0.180% for Martian meteorites). Are these number correct? Regards, Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2010 show latest news
Hello List, Those asking for more news on 2010 Ensisheim meteorite show dates and organization, please look at this site: http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr/site/fr/news/news.php Click on 2010 flyer.pdf More info on how to reach the show, accommodation and other details can be found on the other links on that page. Note: Should someone wish to receive the flyer as attachment, please contact me Warning: So far the other web site mentioned on the flyer, namely: www.ville-ensisheim.fr DOES NOT WORK (still under construction..?) - Here are some further specific news/corrections/additions, since my last contact (May 20): * Friday dinner-party menu: replace minced beef by boeuf bourguignon if you want to know more (recipe), have a look here (look at the pic or learn some French): http://www.meilleurduchef.com/cgi/mdc/l/fr/recettes/boeuf_bourguignon_ill.html * Dinner party: I noted so far about 70 firm reservations but not everybody did select their preferred menu. Please do so (beef or poultry) if you want to appreciate your chef's favorite. We may still accommodate up to 20 persons (flexible). May I also recall that reservation is not only a must but it is also expected that if you reserved, you don't cancel at the last minute (for obvious reasons). * We have the honor and the great pleasure to welcome, as special guests for the dinner-party, the notorious professor JOHN WASSON (UCLA) and his wife. John Wasson's reputation as expertized scientist in the domain of meteorites related to their solar-nebula origin is unanimously recognized and appreciated. Among the number of scientific papers and books he published, his famous treatise Meteorites: Their Record of Early Solar-System History is still one of our most popular reads and a real reference. After landing on early afternoon in Frankfurt, John and Gudrun will drive straight to Ensisheim and will be with us during the Friday night dinner-party. This is a real opportunity to meet a skilled scientist and a very kind person. Gudrun and John will visit the show on Saturday. * If we assume that our current guests Erich Haiderer, Jiri Simek and Rainer Hobein will soon confirm their usual tables, I can announce that all the 55 tables BUT ONE are rented. * The list of dealers is as follows (still possibly subject of slight changes for the number of persons and/or table numbers): Table 1: A. Black (US)/ R. Warin (B) Tables 2,3: T. Dehner (D) Table 4: U E. Eger (D) Tables 5,6,7: Ph. Thomas (F)/ L. Dejouy (F)/ L. Jaworski (F) Table 8: F. Kuntz (F) Table 9: M. Cimala (PL) Table 10: A. Carion (F) Tables 11,12: H. Koser (UY) Tables 13,14: G. Pacer (D) Tables 15,16,17: S. Haberer (D)/ K. Schneider (D) Table 18. M. Graul (D) Table 19: E. Sommer (D) Table 20: M. Altmann (D)/ S. Ralew (D) (Chladni's Heirs) Table 21, 22, 23: A M. Hmani (MC) Table 24: L. Labenne (F) (Tables 25, 26: J. Simek (CZ)?) Tables 27,28: P. Kümmel (D) /S. König (D) Table 29: A. Gren (D) Tables 30,31: M. Farmer (US) /M A. Karl (D) (Table 32: removed) Table 33: H. Strufe (D) Tables 34,35: P. Marmet/ M. Jost/ R. Perrinjacquet (all CH) (Table 36: removed) Table 37: S. L. Vasiliev (RU) Tables 38,39: S. Afanasiev (RU) /D. Sadilenko (RU) / S. Petukhov (RU)/ Mexico Doug (US) Table 40: I. Barakshin (RU) Table 41: S. Skorniakov (RU) (must confirm) Table 42: G. L. Tomelleri (I) Tables 43,44: M. Ismaily (MC) Table 45: A. Knöfel (D)/ B. Ruschinzik (D) (Table 46: R. Hobein (D) ?) (Tables 47,48,51,52: E. S. Haiderer (A) ?) Table 49: FREE ! (Table 50: removed) Tables 53,54 + 4 display windows: CONSIGNMENT ROOM (so far 7 consigners registered) Table 55: BOOKSHOP (Table 56: removed) Note 1: Comparing with Ensisheim 2009, 4 tables were removed to increase space and thereby better fluidize visitor's wanderings. In case of some very late registration(s), we might decide to add some of these tables and slightly re-organize the show halls accordingly. Note 2: Those wishing to receive a map showing the table layout, please contact me. * Beer Meteor is back again! * Museum thematic exhibit. Along with the (mainly) tektite collection of Zelimir (= me), I have the pleasure to report that our regular visitor Olaf GABEL (D) kindly proposed to add some outstanding tektites and impactites, from rare provenances, from his advanced collection. * To increase security, in addition to a night guard, an alarm is now installed al throughout the Regency museum halls. * Original drawings contest: Young artists ( 12) from everywhere in theuniverse (!) are welcome to bring along their artistic paintings based on the theme Imagine Human Landing on Mars around 2025. Just bring your (or their) originals, dated and signed (indicate place country). Arts fromMars would be particularly appreciated All welcome in Ensisheim! In less than 18 days, IT STARTS! Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2010 show: INFO
and dance demo by the world famous Ansa Elsass Country Jumper group. (you could appreciate a few surprises there .) (Sat. 20:30 21:30) - Younger music (techno related ?) by the Ensisheim College Orchestra teens (Sunday 11:30-12:30) - Don't forget that the main square is a permanent dance floor any time, anyhow, for every age! Saturday dinner The Saturday dinner (not official but strongly recommended to all participants) can either take part in the tents (or in the open air) on the main dancing square or anywhere else. - On the square you will find traditional light meals involving tarte flambée and alike, various snacks + selected liquids, all served by the organizers. - For anywhere else, we specifically recommend the option that had met a significant success in 2009: Go to the restaurant Le Boeuf Rouge located on the other side of the church, 20 m from the tents. More than 120 guests can sit inside, in case of cold weather (very unlikely), but also in the friendly open air courtyard. This large open resort is partly covered by a wooden roof (in improbable case of rain), partly just sun-protected by wineyard. Meals are proposed there à la carte at very friendly prices (food quality to price ratio largely positive) and beverage variety is unlimited. The advantage of that option (Boeuf Rouge) is not only the excellent food (we had a very positive feedback last year) but also its proximity to the main hotel Domaine du Moulin or to the dancing square, whereto you could walk (or creep...?) any time in the deep night NEW! This year we decided to follow some pertinent suggestions and to install 5-6 rounded tables (6 chairs per table) with umbrellas all around the square where meals based on grilled meat, sausages, merguez and French fries + salad or alike, are served permanently during the show and more particularly during the lunch and dinner times. Saturday Sunday lunches Traditional lunches + all other specific snacks, including the very popular tarte flambée (Alsatian pie) as well as the new options (grilled meat) are permanently served outside (umbrella-protected tables) or inside (sun and/or rain-protected tent). Lunches can be served to exhibitors in the Regency Palace on noon time, on specific request. Other activities All the other activities on the main square (beer, wine sale, beer, tee shirts, lager, snacks, beer, meteorite smuggling, Polish vodka (?), mugs, beer, pins, wine tasting, Meteor beer, discussions, Russian brandy (?), Columbus memories, lager, tequila (?), beer, market trends, water (??)... and permanent museum visits are maintained (some highly recommended!). Exhibits related to the show themes 1) Thematic display in Regency museum The traditional meteorite display in the museum containing the 53.831 kg Ensisheim queen meteorite, is replaced this year by an unusual display of high quality TEKTITES and some IMPACTITES (so as to once meet the generic title of the show). For reasons of simplicity in the organization and because of the various delays we had to manage, (almost) all the displayed pieces are from my personal (modest but still representative) collection, with a special emphasis to Philippine tektites that are either spectacular in size or groove design (Paracale) or that show weird/aesthetic shapes (Anda-type) or are sculpted into freaky objects (Cambodia). Most are anecdotic finds of which the history will be explicated and/or illustrated by original pictures taken on site. The display can always be completed, as it is the tradition, by some other few wonders from other private (anonymous or official) collections... Yes, this is a call for samples! Just write. You can't believe how many things can be arranged at the last minute! 2) Thematic display in the Spiess hall (first room on the right side when you are at the top of the Palace spiral staircase). * 3 replicas of the famous ARIANE-series rockets on loan from the CNES (French National Space Center), namely Ariane-3, -4 and -5. * A display window showing the ins and the outs of the newly created Mars Society Belgium, including a few things you always wanted to know about planet Mars and some related Martian meteorites. Pierre-Emmanuel Paulus and Etienne Lefebvre, members of the MSB, will be happy to answer any of your concerns. This year, we have two plenary lectures related to the appropriate themes: 1) Etienne LEFEBVRE (Belgium): Target Mars: the Big Adventure of the 21st Century (Saturday, 15:00-16:00) 2) Guy HEINEN (Linger, Luxembourg): Tektites: Witnesses of Cosmic Catastrophes (Sunday, 11:00-11:30); video presented and animated by Zelimir Gabelica (unfortunately Guy wont be able to make it personally) Accommodation Warning! The well known hotel La Couronne is now definitely closed! The nearest hotel is now the Domaine du Moulin where Id urge you to make room
Re: [meteorite-list] What sex is your meteorite
Here in France, it is unanimously and/or spontaneously accepted that all meteorites are considered female. Then we are sure that no one will ever be offended Zelimir At 07:45 12/04/2010, Shawn Alan wrote: Hello Listers, I have been meaning to ask people what sex they would consider their meteorites to be and if the names of the meteorite would be the final factor in determining sex? Or is this a silly question for me to ask in the first place? Why I ask this question is because alot of times I hear people refer to a classic car as a female, like look at her she's a beauty. I have even caught myself referring to some of the meteorites I own as a male of female. For instance, I would consider Almahata Sitta as female because the way Almahata Sitta sounds has this romantic feel to it when I say her name. Or the Weston, I would definitely call it a male meteorite because just the word sounds bold and strong when I say his name. Which sex are your meteorites and what determining factors could dictate which way this would go? Shawn Alan eBay store http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What sex is your meteorite
Right Darren, however I understand your statement in the case of: Aurora, Caroline, Milena, Bella Roca, Mercedes, Zulu Queen, Maria de Fè, Lavrientievka, La Esmeralda, Venus, Juanita de Angeles, Patricia, Vera, Angelica, Dolores, Dawn, Charlotte, Dora, Eva But what about: Vincent, Anthony, Otis, Luis Lopez, Otto, Lawrence, King Solomon, Lazarev, Hughes, Pavel, Horace, Floyd, Felix, Clovis, Bruno, Alfred Question at 2 cents. Which category would cost (you!) more beers Glad when you take it with humor! Zelimir At 13:40 12/04/2010, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 22:45:56 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: For instance, I would consider Almahata Sitta as female because the way Almahata Sitta sounds has this romantic feel to it when I say her name. Or the Weston, I would definitely call it a male meteorite because just the word sounds bold and strong when I say his name. Well, NWA meteorites are sorority girls-- they are new to the market, many collector's first experience, and most of them can be taken home for the price of a couple of beers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What sex is your meteorite
Should be more obvious for males(I have some pics to support my statement, but can't attach here). For females, wellhave a closer look. Do I need to tell you what to look at ? As just Carl said, a beer can stimulate imagination (or enhance searching). However, I'd guess the LAST beer helps more than the first... (Hey, always keep considering such jokes in their second degree...) Zelimir At 18:25 12/04/2010, geo...@aol.com wrote: I have been meaning to ask people what sex they would consider their meteorites to be... Our of curiosity, how can you tell? I looked over all sides and nothing was obvious to me. :O) GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] message from Vincent Jacques
Hi List, Vincent Jacques, who is not able to send posts right now, asked me to forward you the following message: Happy speculations... Zelimir Dear listoïdes I would be very curious to have your ideas about the following meteorite, here above the story: In 2002, I have purchased a mix meteorites- earth stones from a Moroccan dealer during the Brussels mineral show. 60% of them was meteorites (many chondrites, one little eucrite, and some magnetics strange stones, terrestrials following my desert meteorite experience) One of them showed a very strange lithology. Earth rock or meteorite? My first impression after cutting was a simple rock from Sahara but a little magnetic attraction on one side and some cm² of very thick chocolate alteration on other side (old fusion crust?) asked to more investigations. The first question: Meteorite or not? has been resolved in 2006 by prof Jedwab (University of Brussels) during a quick microprobe analysis. With lot of hesitation, its a meteorite, congratulation He said: probably a very very old weathered chondrite, no interesting perhaps achondrite, but my analysis is not perfect. I found only one little Fe-Ni flake. I think that was a mud aggregate, but its a meteorite Other visual submission to prestigious institutions was blocked during the first contact: Oh, if its a meteorite, it is so weathered, no interest to study it probably a little ordinary chondrite. Recently, I have submitted a fragment of this rejected ugly meteorite to a Belgian laboratory, who studies several meteorites including Antarctica meteorites from summer 2009-2010 collect. The first result is fall some days later: The meteorite is very close to ureilite group, but there is a little problem. It contains an unusual part of pure carbon. Analysis continues at this time. We have searched equivalent meteorites, without result, except for Almahata Sitta meteorite. On internet, the following link shows a electronic photo of Almahata sitta. Photo's are very similar. Please, compare it with following electronic pictures of my rejected meteorite. Almahata Sitta electronic photos (scroll the screen): http://www.universetoday.com/2009/03/25/meteorites-found-in-africa-from-first-predicted-asteroid-hit/natureasteroids3/http://www.universetoday.com/2009/03/25/meteorites-found-in-africa-from-first-predicted-asteroid-hit/natureasteroids3/ My ugly meteorite http://www.heberger-image.fr/view.php?image=96119_kkc01.jpeghttp://www.heberger-image.fr/view.php?image=96119_kkc01.jpeg Electronic images of my ugly meteorite : http://heberger-image.fr/album_user_view.php?nom_album=Carbon%20rich%20ureiliteid_view=c2aee86157b4a40b78132f1e71a9e6f1http://heberger-image.fr/album_user_view.php?nom_album=Carbon%20rich%20ureiliteid_view=c2aee86157b4a40b78132f1e71a9e6f1 Each square and reticule corresponds to an analysis area. Result on request by square if you are interested. I would be very curious to read you. Best regards, Vincent Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Perils of Type Collecting - A Guide
Hi Mike, Can you tell me the name of the CM3 ? Btw: a very complete list of types ( subtypes) can also be found in both the Met. Bull. database or at the end of the Meteorites from A to Z booklet (ed 2008) by Jensen bros. Note: Murchison is CM2.5 (Rubin al, Geochim, Cosmochim. Acta, 2008) Note 2: don't forget to add CK3 and C2 (Tagish) and a few other (see Carl's remarks) Note 3: I am not sure metachondrite is official, though I very much appreciate that new nomenclature suggested by D. Weir in his outstanding comprehensive site. Best wishes, Zelimir Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com a écrit : Thanks to Carl, Katsu, Greg, Martin, and everyone else who provided corrections and input on this list. I have made corrections and the revised list is presented below : Carbonaceous Chondrites : CI (Ivuna) CM1 (Mighei) CM2 (subdivided into CM2.0 to CM2.6) CM3 CO3 (Ornans) (subdivided into CO3.03 to CO3.7) CV (Vigarano) (also CV2 and CV3) CK (Karoonda) (CK4, CK5, CK6) CR (Renazzo) (CR1, CR2, CR3) CB (Bencubbin) CH CR ungrouped C4 ungrouped C ungrouped Ordinary Chondrites : Rumuruti R3 (subdivided into R3.5-6 to R3.9) R4 R5 R6 LL (subdivided into LL3.0 to LL3.9) LL4 LL5 LL5/6 LL6 LL6/7 LL7 LL impact melt LL transitional (L/LL3 to L/LL6) L (subdivided into L3.0 to L3.9) L4 L5 L6 L6/7 L7 L impact melt H/L transitional (H/L3 to H/L6 IMB, H/L3.6 to H/L3-4) H (subdivided into H3.0 to H3.9) H4 H5 H6 H7 H impact melt ungrouped ordinary chondrites Enstatite Chondrites : EL (EL3 to EL7) EL impact melt EH/L EH (EH3 to EH7) EH impact melt ungrouped enstatite chondrites K (Kakangari) Meta-chondrites (M-CV, M-CR, M-H, M-LL) Primitive Chondrites : Acapulcoite Lodranite Winonaites ungrouped primitive chondrites Achondrites : Howardite (subdivided into fragmental breccia and regolith breccia) Eucrite (monomict and polymict with each having subclasses) Diogenite (monomict and polymict) Olivine Diogenite Dunite Ureilite (monomict and polymict) Martian achondrites : Shergottite Pyroxene-phyric basaltic shergottite Olivine-phyric basaltic shergottite Olivine-orthopyroxene-phyric basaltic shergottite Pyroxene-peridotitic (Wehrlitic) shergottite Lherzolitic shergottite Diabasic shergottite Nakhlite Chassignite Orthopyroxenite (ALH 84001) Lunar Achondrites : Feldspathic breccias Regolith breccia Fragmental breccia Impact melt breccia Granulitic breccia Mafic-rich Thorium-rich KREEP-rich Mingled Breccia Mare Basalt Other Achondrites : Angrites (Plutonic and Basaltic) Brachinite Aubrite ungrouped achondrites (Ibitira, Pasamonte, etc) Stony-Irons : Mesosiderites (1A,1B,2A,2B,2C,3A,3B,4A,4B) ungrouped mesosiderites Pallasites (Main Group, Eagle Station group, Pyroxene group) Pallasite-am (anomalous, PMG-am, PMG-as) ungrouped pallasites Iron meteorites : Note, iron meteorites are a can of worms. I will only focus on the main chemical groups, and not the various grouplets and sub-types of each main chemical group. Also note that many of these types include silicated varities. Listing all of the known sub-types of irons would require a LONG list resembling a flow-chart. IAB IC IIAB IIC IID IIE IIF IIG IIIAB IIIE IIIF IVA IVB ungrouped irons -- On 3/4/10, Katsu OHTSUKA ohts...@jb3.so-net.ne.jp wrote: CM2 (Mighei-type) Katsu - Original Message - From: Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com To: cdtuc...@cox.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; damoc...@yahoo.com; meteoritem...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Perils of Type Collecting - A Guide Murchison is a CM2 Greg S. Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 19:12:20 -0500 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; damoc...@yahoo.com; meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Perils of Type Collecting - A Guide Good list, missing is the division between CBa Buencubbin CBb HAH 237 CK3 and Tagish lake is not ungrouped but I think is a C2. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Richard Kowalski wrote: Thanks a lot Mike. I thought I had pretty much completed my type set a few months ago, but now I see that I'm missed a few gradations that maybe I should pay attention to. I think, for budgetary and sanity sake, I'll have to be selective in how fine my divisions are than to try to get every sub-type you mention! -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Wed, 3/3/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks Subject: [meteorite-list] The Perils of Type Collecting - A Guide To: Meteorite List Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 4:18 PM Greetings Listees and fellow collectors, To the veteran collector, there will be little of interest in this post. This post is directed at the silent newbie or beginner lurkers who are sorting through this List and trying to find their way around the world of collecting meteorites.
Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
Dear Matthias, Your questions are very pertinent. I'll try to reply the best I can, by trying to avoid confusion between diversity and complexity. Let's try to simplify. Here is my modest understanding of the issue, bearing in mind I am by no means an expert in biology and its development, neither I am regarding the conditions in space that can provoke (or at least had provoked in Murchison) a high molecular diversity. Our spectra richness gives (experimental) evidence of intrinsic and compositional diversity in space, within and across chemical classes, which is an acknowledged feature of extraterrestrial chemistry (see e.g. J. R. Cronin et al., Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta 57 (1993), 4745 Comparable but lesser diversity was also found in terrestrial organic matter. Ref.: N. Hertkorn et al., Anal. Chem. 80 (2008), 9808 ; Norbert Hertkorn, co-author of our paper, is expert, along with Phil Schmitt-Kopplin, of NOM's (Natural Organic Matter, thus humic acids related, present in terrestrial aqueous systems ) To answer more specifically your 6 questions (that are related), I'd say: No, the development of life does not depend (necessarily) on a kind of reduction of chemical diversity. In other words, life can develop (as it did on Earth) from a relatively small (reduced or not) number of initial molecules, provided some other parameters (than in space) act as driving force (presence of oxygen, water (under ambient conditions), ambient (= not extreme) temperature.). But this does not imply that it can't develop from a large number of molecules as well. This does certainly not mean that such a life did not develop somewhere in space under different conditions. As mentioned J. R. Beda in his comments on our paper in CEN (Feb 16, 2010): The challenge now is to fish out molecules that may have some important early biochemical role. Would life be linked to a process of picking up elements out of the construction kit and combine them ? I defy anyone to answer that question. Now regarding distinction between diversity and complexity, I don't imagine that the complexity of terrestrial biochemical space is necessarily a result of reduction of (initial) diversity. I believe this can also most probably occur if a high diversity is maintained. In other words, should the high diversity of molecules (such as we found in Murchison) be also present on Earth at the time when the conditions were conductive to the expansion of life, this expansion would probably have occurred as readily as if that diversity was somewhat restricted (this is an hypothesis that I'd be glad if someone more expert than me could comment - but not necessarily confirm). To conclude, we give in our paper a little more detailed picture than what is summarized in one sentence of the abstract. The DIVERSITY of extraterrestrial organics was driven (but also possibly sometimes restricted) by extreme physical parameters such as temperature, radiation, various alterationsleading to a selectivity of reaction pathways (entropy-driven continuous distribution of molecular compositions and structural characteristics of ABIOTIC syntheses). Such thermodynamic and kinetic constraints might deviate from terrestrial biogeochemistry, under our current mild conditions (oxygen, ambient temperature etc). In other words, these latter conditions could lead, from a restricted number of initial molecules (but not necessarily restricted!) to a high and EARTH-SPECIFIC COMPLEXITY, by inducing various favorable transformations. Just some thoughts from a non expert chemist. I encourage Phil Schmitt-Kopplin, who is reading us, to possibly add his own comments. I also stay flexible to any (constructive or destructive) remark from any of you. Matthias, I will forward you the full paper as attachment. Unfortunately, for the list, I have no link to provide. Those interested, feel fee to request a copy. Kind regards to all, Zelimir Oh, I almost forgot: YES, definitely Murchison smells (a quite strong smell, not really unpleasent, especially when the sample was sealed in some jar for years). Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de a écrit : Hello Zelimir Murchisionados, highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very first row. If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse pattern. The last sentence of the abstract reads: This molecular complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space. The high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less diverse terrestrial chemical space -
[meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
Darren, list, The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the research we (a group of scientists) are being conducting since several months on Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its extraterrestrial organic contents. In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified the list of that work by just mentioning the keywords Murchison and organic contant. The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time (right in time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just anounced released out of press a couple of hours ago. Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010). Abstract can be read here: http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763 More discussions are available through various media press comments (easily found by Googling with keys: Murchison, Phillippe Schmitt-Kopplin). May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules we had found originated from the fact that the screening was not targeted. Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands of molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something that seems to provoke debate in the media. Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on meteorites in general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in particular, that origin-of-life researchers could investigate... Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that Philippe (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian in 2008. Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where all the measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR GC) were run. We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his discern and faith in initiating that challenging research and for his expertise that caused its success beyond any of our initial expectations. So far we have recorded tons of other data on many more other meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming continuously; thay will be published in the months to come. My best wishes, Zelimir Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com a écrit : Darren and List Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison meteorite, I came across an article on line that points out these interesting facts and finds on the Murchison as quoted from the article as follows Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar system, says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago. The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are older than the solar system. But just how old? Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the organic material it contains, and measured how long the grains spent in interstellar space before winding up in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, reported in a recent paper of the Astrophysical Journal, appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the Milky Way around 6 billion years ago... From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate that the majority of grains spent between 3 and 200 million years in interstellar space before falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion years ago. Here is the link to the article I found on line. http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf and if your up for a read, here is an article on the age of presolar SiC grains found in Murchison meteorite. http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf Enjoy Shawn Alan [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren Garrison cynapse at charter.net Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009 Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009 Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit giving up its secrets. The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because many pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was recovered. Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were formed from material that existed in the solar system's planet-forming disk of gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto a 4 billion year old record of the birth of our solar system. In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. In fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material older
Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
Blue Inclusion Aloha Jeff, Bernd, et al, I am at a conference now and have limited access to email, but was informed of this interesting anomalous inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee meteorite. My friend and partner of the NWA (~L3, W0/1) has identified a similar feature in one of my slices. Please have a look at my 20.11g full slice to see this blue feature in the middle of a troilite inclusion: http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/614g/_20.11b.jpg Because this is from the interior of the meteorite, it should dispel any theory of fusion reaction during ablative flight. gary On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote: Hi Bernd all, Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger than my Isheyevo Hibonite-bearing CAI or chondrule. Probably too big? Actually, I wish you could see this feature in person Bernd. The best way I can describe it is to say that is looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks feather. I was sent a pic off list by another collector who has a similar smaller feature on a very fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1). There is a brassy yellow one (troilite?) with a smaller blue one like mine next to it. Both look like melted metal on the surface. I know Mark had one other much larger Buzzard with a similar thing too. Has anyone else seen this or know what could cause it? Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Larry Twink Monrad larrytwinkmon...@comcast.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List, I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff Grosman identified for us. This made me think of the MUCH-1 and Blue Angel inclusions in Murchison (both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates). http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee! Best wishes, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] SAU 290 L3 blue inclusion
Hi Jeff, Thanks Jeff for your very interesting and expertized statements on SAU 290. Since I read them, I am also starting to consider my 7.93 g end section just a little more significant than a simple or rare collection curiosity. Thanks also for providing Gary's close-up of the blue inclusion in his L3. Even if magnified, it is difficult to guess (from the pic) whether it has a metallic luster or it is rather a blue stony (glassy ?) inclusion. I suggest Gary examines it at different reflection angles under magnification to possibly answer that question, namely to discriminate between a hibonite-bearing inclusion (or alike) and some Cu-Fe sulfide (or any other blue metallic phase). (Btw, thank you and Peter for your kind comments). Side note: I'd also like to answer Jeff Grossman's comments regarding the blue chondrule we had found in TNZ 082. Jeff wrote (post sent Feb 7): If this is a hibonite-bearing CAI, is it important? There is current research on hibonite in CMs, e.g. http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0016703709003251. I would contact somebody like Andy Davis at U. Chicago, a coauthor on this paper, and get his opinion if you're thinking of donating this to science. That fragment of TNZ 082 was broken in Munich by the team of Philippe Schmitt-Kopplin with whom we collaborate to investigate the presence of organic extraterrestrial molecules (PAH's O-, N- or S-substitutes) in a series of CM2's, among which TNZ 082 and others. (Btw, our first paper on Murchison is almost out of press. We were notified the the embargo on that publication will end beginning next week; I'll then send you the link). Jeff, I have notified my German colleagues of your wise suggestion to contact the U. Chicago team. They answered me that they are right now being analyzing that inclusion by microprobe just to determine the elemental composition. Microprobe being a non-destructive technique (the sample won't be gold-coated), they agreed that, if of interest, the chondrule could then be sent as such for further investigation to some other lab. In such a case, we will get in contact with Andy Davis' team. Many thanks for the suggestion and for all your comments. Kind regards to all (from the very snowy and cold Alsace, France; apparently, seems we must go above the Polar Circle to get mild weather...?) Zelimir At 14:30 11/02/2010, Jeff Kuyken wrote: Just trying to catch up on some meteorite stuff! I always thought this one was a bit of an ugly duckling but after browsing through a few abstracts I now find myself looking at this one in a different light. http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/june2009.html Cheers, Jeff __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] blue chondrule in a CM2
Hi List, Here are 3 pics of a genuine blue chondrule spotted upon breaking a fagment of the CM2 meteorite Tanezrouft 082 (purchased last June in Ensisheim, from A. Gouesslain/J.-L. Parodi, the meteorite finders). See here: http://www.agab.be/question/question.html Question: what could be the origin of such a strange turquois-like blue color ? Could it be due to some traces of Cu2+ salts neutralizing some refractory silicates ? (despite tha fact that the presence of Cu was apparently not reported in the meteorite analysis, see the Met. Bull. writeup added in the URL). Or could that just be (sometimes) the natural color of some (ortho)pyroxenes ? Or olivine ? However, I don't remember having ever seen any olivine showing such a true blue color. Shouldn't olivine (always?) rather be olive-green, whatever its origin (terrestrial or asteroidal) ? Thanks for sharing your thoughts or expertise. My best, Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] blue chondrule in a CM2
Hello Jeff, Matthias, Ted, all, Your wise suggestions about the blue inclusion are highly appreciated. I also first thought of hibonite that was mentioned in a similar discussion we had on the list a couple of years ago. At the time, Jeff Kuyken showed us a chondrule-like inclusion in Isheyevo and hibonite was one of the hypotheses retained . I don't really remember the detailed discussion that resulted but this info is now probably hidden somewhere in the archives . By luck, this debate (with hibonite hypothesis) as well as the inclusion pics are still available on Jeff's site (Jeff K, I hope you don't mind if I provide the link): http://www.meteorites.com.au/features/isheyevo.html The blue color in Isheyevo (as it is in Allende shown by Ted), is more intense than the light blue shade of our TNZ chondrule so I did not retain at first that hypotheis. (also because all the terrestrial hibonites I have seen are dark brown but more often just black; the best crystals so far come from Madagascar and I have in my mineral collection a 6x4x3 cm single cristal, just full black- from the famous Betroka deposit). I now realize the hibonite hypothesis is very likely. But enstatite is another possibility indeed. I have a terrestrial enstatite sample that is blue-green. The synthetic enstatites we once had synthesized in the lab are logically white. Two last questions (sorry for insisting): 1) Should we consider this just as a curiosity or does someone believe this could have some pertinent significance in the case of a CM2 chondrite ? 2) How can we make sure the round light blue circle shown here is a chondrule or a CAI ? Jeff firmly states that the TNZ hibonite is embedded in a CAI and Ted shows the same in Allende. Would that imply the TNZ circle is also a CAI rather than a chondrule, despite of its quasi perferctly round shape ? My best wishes, Zelimir Ted Bunch tbe...@cableone.net a écrit : Dear Zelimir- Jeff beat me on the response. Attached is a true hibonite in an Allende CAI. Your blue object could be a lighter blue hibonite or an enstatite chondrule that, on occasion, has a blue hue depending on the light source, angle of illumination, light scattering, etc. Ted On 2/6/10 10:06 AM, zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr wrote: Hi List, Here are 3 pics of a genuine blue chondrule spotted upon breaking a fagment of the CM2 meteorite Tanezrouft 082 (purchased last June in Ensisheim, from A. Gouesslain/J.-L. Parodi, the meteorite finders). See here: http://www.agab.be/question/question.html Question: what could be the origin of such a strange turquois-like blue color ? Could it be due to some traces of Cu2+ salts neutralizing some refractory silicates ? (despite tha fact that the presence of Cu was apparently not reported in the meteorite analysis, see the Met. Bull. writeup added in the URL). Or could that just be (sometimes) the natural color of some (ortho)pyroxenes ? Or olivine ? However, I don't remember having ever seen any olivine showing such a true blue color. Shouldn't olivine (always?) rather be olive-green, whatever its origin (terrestrial or asteroidal) ? Thanks for sharing your thoughts or expertise. My best, Zelimir __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] about meteorite casts
Hi Graham, If you mean original meteorites that were sources of casts in general (not Middlesborough in particular), you were very close to a famous one last Summer: Ensisheim meteorite, 53.832 kg, original displayed in the Ensi Regency palace. Only 2 identical (plaster) casts have been manufactured from that original in the late 1940's (or 1950's ?) by a local artist. One belongs to the Guardians and is sometimes lend for display instead of the original that is, as you might guess, tricky and risky to carry here and there. I am the very lucky owner of the second cast. It was officially donated to me by the Guardians after we had organized the first 2000 show. I continue to believe this was an outstanding honor that I never deserved, whatever my contribution to initiate the show (actually that work was, and still is, far more a pleasure and a challenge than a task). This being, if ever you need my cast for any kind of display (even in the UK), I am always ready to lend it occasionally. Because I consider that this almost unique cast can be to some extent an elegant way to dispatch the fame of that unique meteorite, and perhaps the knowledge of meteorites in general. I may suspect the artist realized it for that kind of purpose. BTW, please note all: The real and accurately measured weight of the original meteorite fragment sited in Ensisheim (by all means the main mass) is well 53.831, as officially re-weighed in 2002. The other often mentioned figures (about 55 kg or alike) are not correct. My best, Zelimir At 23:44 25/01/2010, ensorama...@ntlworld.com wrote: Hi Dan, I have chased up the original sources of the casts and they are no longer available...unless of course someone on the list knows different...I have been after one for years. Graham Daniel H. Fronefield dfron...@hiwaay.net wrote: So, does anyone still carry these Middlesborough meteorite casts for sale? Is the 3D scan made by ESA/NASA available to the general public? If so, a reasonable replica could be produced by various methods. Just thinking ... I'd love to have replica for my display too. Dan Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Almahata Sitta
Hi Greg, Anne, Siegfried, all, Does someone know the names of the 3 arrested ? I know quite many hunters from both Belgium and France. Hope my close friends were wise enough to refrain from travelling there... If someone has some info, I leave to your wisdom to decide to send it to the list or to me, off list. Thanks! Zelimir Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net a écrit : Hello Anne and Siegfried, I had heard about these arrests earlier. Lets hope for their speedy return to their families and homes. This is a very sad situation. It was almost one year ago we flew to Cairo to try and get visa's to enter Sudan and hunt for Almahata Sitta stones. Maybe it was a blessing that some of us Western countries are not allowed entry visa's due to political problems. I wish the three safe captivity and for a speedy and welcome return home! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: impact...@aol.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; comet199...@hotmail.com Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Almahata Sitta Hello list members, Siegfired Haberer has been trying to post to the List, but unsuccesfully, so he has asked me to forward this (below) to you. Any questions, please let me know And see you (almost) all in Tucson in just a few days. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) Dear List members, Much to my regret I learned yesterday that three Europeans have been arrested in Sudan because of being in possession of Almahata Sitta meteorites. Since two weeks they are in a Sudanese jail and the outcome of this matter is uncertain. In this connection several meteorite collectors asked me about the status of my Almahata Sitta specimens. Therefore, I want to let you know that all of the Almahata Sitta meteorites I have and offer for sale were exported with an official export license. Who wants to see this license can have a look at it in Anne Black's show room in Tucson (IMPACTIKA, Hotel Tucson City Center, Room 230). With best collector's regards Siegfried Haberer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Pairing Discussions
Hi John, NWA 4024 is indeed a nice example of the discrepancy between Met. Bull. data and the amount of stuff circulating on the market. This is perfectly illustrated if you compare the Met. Bull. write up regarding NWA 4024 an look at the photos included at the end of the same report. There are some 15 pieces illustrated, coming from various sources. Although weights are not mentioned, a rough evaluation of the volume of the pieces (comparison with the scale cubes) leads to evaluate that the total weight of the illustrated pieces should largely overstep 100 g, probably more. Not mentioning that the pieces pictured probably represent only a small fraction of what is really available as 'NWA 4024 in collections. I have in collection a 4.43 g end section (got from Hanno Strufe). But my own write up states that Mike Farmer reported at the time (2006) that the tkw was at least 745 grams. He explicitly explained this discrepancy by the following argumentive comment: first piece sold, more pieces come out, which is, as we know, not really a surprise. Nothing is mentioned officially about pairings and I don't know whether this meteorite is also being sold under another NWA N° but I guess the pics in the Met. Bull. suggest that all the 15 pieces were called NWA 4024. The tkw of a meteorite is indeed rarely updated officially (by the Nom Com and thus reported in the Met. Bulls.) probably because nobody writes them to update the old tkw. I agree that the Nom Com should not be blamed for that. As a typical example (among many others) the official tkw reported in Met. Bull. for Chiang Khan is still 367 grams, while everybody now agrees that it is of several kg. When helping Mike Jensen to update the 2008 edition of Meteorites from A to Z, I reported him several such examples and, in some obvious cases, the actual tkw was updated (with, as reference: numerous sources including internet, personal communications and professional experience. Needless to say that this updating is not official because not (yet ?) agreed by the Nom. Com. For the cited example of Chiang Khan, we agreed to the put, as tkw, 7...@7.0+ kg, which is more realistic regarding the present market, although not official as I agree only the Met. Bull. (Nom. Com.) should act as official reference. There is some pertinent work needed here and I am convinced many of us from the List and elsewhere can help in trying to provide more correct figures to the Nom. Com. Zelimir At 04:38 19/01/2010, John.L.Cabassi wrote: G'Day List This has been a very interesting read. Quite some time ago, I brought up the question about NWA 4024, which apparently on the card that accompanied it and the Met Bull stated a TKW of 38.1g. But there's definitely alot more out there ??? Is there pairing going on here? http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=nwasfor=namesants=falls =valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecat eg=Winonaitesmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normaltablecode=34296 And now for another, I purchased this off of Tom some time back. NWA 231, the met bull lists is as being provisional, it has yet to be classified. The main mass was 1054g. What I have is 1048g, 6 grams are missing; I think due to polishing a window. But I confirmed with Michael C. and it was confirmed. The label on the rock states NWA 231 so everything checks out. But it's yet to be classified. I have not found the time to go ahead with this, but I was curious that NWA numbers were handed out prior to being classified. http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=nwa+231sfor=namesants=f alls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=name categ=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normaltablecode=31470 Any thoughts? Cheers John IMCA # 2125 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 4024/2680
Hi Jason, Excellent link for NWA 4024 compared to 2680 (Birdsell). From what I just can discern, I am convinced 2680 is exactly the same material as 4024. See, as comparison, the pics of both meteorites added at the end of their respective Met. Bull reports (although NWA 2680 is still provisional, there are pics attached). In particular Mirko Graul provided pics of both. Here they are, for comparison: NWA 2680: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/get_original_photo.php?recno=5645813 and NWA 4024: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/get_original_photo.php?recno=5645817 Very similar slices, almost same pattern (look at details!) My modest suggestion: Owing to the fact that NWA 2680 is still provisional, why not suggesting to this specific classification working team (Zolensky al ?) to conclude (after a thorough re-examination) that both meteorites are the same and thus also consider to maintain only one NWA number, thus that NWA 2680 is identical to NWA 4024 (that should have priority because first classified)? But here the question is perhaps even more complicated because NWA 4024 is said to be a winonaite, while it now appears obvious that only one (or a few) achondritic clast(s) were analyzed in it, not the (major ?) iron found all around (that is IAB ungr.). It would then be wise to fully re-analyze both materials (ideally by the same team) and conclude. If there rises evidence that both are the same, then I guess there should come an agreement for a common type and name ? Sorry, I am not in the Nom Com nor I know how they would proceed in such a case, so perhaps my suggestion is very naive. I therefore expect more comments from Nom Com experts and am ready to humbly accept their conclusions whatever they be. This is here only one typical example of something that could still be done, because NWA 2680 is not yet official. There are probably other such favorable examples. Solving them, even if progressively, will push the pairing problem one step forward, though it is obvious, as Jeff pointed out, that this pairing problem is really very difficult (I'd say impossible) to solve completely. Zelimir At 12:56 19/01/2010, Jason Utas wrote: Hello John, Zelimir, All, I've held samples of both; NWA 4024 is indistinguishable from NWA 2680. http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/AZ_Skies_Links/NWA_2680/index.html http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/nwa4024.htm It was likely misidentified the second time around because the sample sent in for analysis was too small for an accurate study - or perhaps the person who performed the analysis simply wasn't expecting an iron. Either way, it's funny - an analysis based solely on the study of a clast that comprises at most ~30-40% of the total volume of the meteorite...I've never seen that done before. It's a IAB with silicate inclusions - a pretty one, but an example that's not crazily different from a few already-known irons. Oh, and it has winonaite-type silicate inclusions. Just like Campo del Cielo and many other IAB's...it's pretty typical in that respect. We purchased a ~40g individual as a new iron in Tucson three or four years ago; there were hundreds of small individuals of this iron available at the time, totaling at least several kilograms (most weighed only a few grams; Dean Bessey sold some of them on ebay later that year, again, misidentified, and mixed with small mesosiderite fragments). In Tucson they were being sold as Zagora; we were surprised to find a very fine pattern after we removed an end from ours for analysis. Based on what I have seen personally, I would estimate the TKW of the find to be at least ten kilograms, but knowing NWA, there could be (and likely is) much, much more. Regards, Jason On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Zelimir Gabelica zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr wrote: Hi John, NWA 4024 is indeed a nice example of the discrepancy between Met. Bull. data and the amount of stuff circulating on the market. This is perfectly illustrated if you compare the Met. Bull. write up regarding NWA 4024 an look at the photos included at the end of the same report. There are some 15 pieces illustrated, coming from various sources. Although weights are not mentioned, a rough evaluation of the volume of the pieces (comparison with the scale cubes) leads to evaluate that the total weight of the illustrated pieces should largely overstep 100 g, probably more. Not mentioning that the pieces pictured probably represent only a small fraction of what is really available as 'NWA 4024 in collections. I have in collection a 4.43 g end section (got from Hanno Strufe). But my own write up states that Mike Farmer reported at the time (2006) that the tkw was at least 745 grams. He explicitly explained this discrepancy by the following argumentive comment: first piece sold, more pieces come out, which is, as we know, not really a surprise. Nothing is mentioned officially about pairings and I don't know
Re: [meteorite-list] Pairing discussion/questions
Hi Greg, This might be a typical question for Jeff Grossman. I am also continuously puzzled by the abundance of paired meteorites (thus those that are officially recognized as such). Let's suppose that once one (or a few) meteorite(s) are selected from an important lot (as found) and sold to someone, this someone (scientist, collector) would envisage its classification. And the same will possibly happen with the other meteorites from the same lot. As a result, there will be as many different NWA numbers, as independent classifications (of the - probably- same meteorite). As most of these classifications probably won't be concerted, there will not be pairings reported and we will end up with as many different meteorites, most probably of the same type, that will never be suspected being paired. If a pairing is suspected, I believe this results from concerted analyses (of either meteorites stemming from the same lot and analyzed by different groups, or of the same meteorites provided by different finders (buyers) brought for analysis to the same group). This even complicates further if there are more than one such lot found (meteorite shower spread throughout a large strewnfield). In case of such concerted analyzes, I guess that the labs will still give a different NWA number to each meteorite (or group of meteorites from the same lot) analyzed, because one is never sure that 2 meteorites supposed to come from the same lot are at 100% the same. If pairing is reported, then most of the time (not always) it is mentioned in the Met. Bulls. But because all analyzes were done independently, each analyzed meteorite (or group of meteorites from the same verified lot) will receive its own NWA number. Here I realize that, at that stage, it is very difficult to decide to only retain as official the first NWA number attributed chronologically and to cancel all the next NWA numbers. I for one am just happy when pairings are reported. This is often the case for important types such as the planetaries. But for the common H6's or L5's, I believe this is very seldom done. So far, regarding my collection catalogue, here is what I mention (for my NWA 4857 sample taken as an example), just to have an idea of the total mass of that meteorite evaluated so far. NWA 4857 (Algeria, Shergottite enr maf), 0.928 g in collection; tkw:1...@24 g: Paired with NWA 2975 (70.1 g), NWA 2986 (170 g), NWA 2987 (82 g), NWA 4766 (225 g), NWA 4783 (120 g), NWA 4864 (94 g), NWA 4878 (130 g), NWA 4880 (81.6 g), NWA 4930 (117.5 g), NWA 5140 (7.5 g), NWA 5214 (50.7 g), NWA 5219 (60 g), NWA5313 (5.3 g) and NWA 5366 (39.6 g). Cumulated tkw: 1273.3 g (as per Jan. 2010) I know that this neither sheds more light to the problem, nor answers your concerns. Hopefully someone can add more to the issue. My best, Zelimir At 17:09 18/01/2010, Greg Catterton wrote: I have often wondered and after some discussion with others I wanted to get the community feeling on the issue of pairings. If a meteorite say NWA 1877 for example is out there and more is recovered and verified to be the same material from the same strewnfield, should the new material share the NWA number and the TKW be updated? I have noticed many pairings with NWA 1877 and many other meteorites. Same material with different numbers and TKWs listed. Would it not be in the best interest to have all the paired samples share on number? This would surely cut the amount of NWA material by 1000 or more. Why is this not done? What is the process for pairing material to share the NWA number? Is it up to the dealer or the person who did testing? What affect would it have on value if something with a listed TKW of 200g suddenly was paired with the 3 other numbers assigned to the same material and the TKW was pushed to 1kg or more? Surely it would decrease as supply grew. Is this a concern for some? I am trying to better understand the politics/red tape that goes with this area. Thanks, hope everyone is doing well. Greg C. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pairing discussion/questions
Thanks very much Jeff., Your answer arrived while my post was sent. By all means it better explains the complicated situation regarding pairings than my poor trials. Zelimir At 18:01 18/01/2010, Jeff Grossman wrote: I think I've answered this before, but again: Yes, it would be great if all meteorites that fell as a single shower (in a single field o'strewn) had a single name. When a meteorite is found in Kansas or Germany or Mexico, it's fairly easy to look in databases and catalogs and find all the possible pairings within, say, 50 km. If there are any of the correct class, then it's ofter a simple matter to compare the two meteorites and decide if they are paired. NomCom rules actually require that this is done, and if the probability of pairing is high, a new name will not be granted to the new specimen. When a new meteorite is found in, e.g., Oman or Libya or Antarctica, things get much harder. With hundreds of potential pairings commonly existing, it is often very difficult or even impossible to evaluate pairings. If the type is rare enough it might be easier, but even then the job can be burdensome on the classifier and the answer uncertain. Once two meteorites are given a single name, specimens become mixed up; it would be very hard to separate two meteorites that were wrongly given the same name. In light of all this, the NomCom has decided that there is little benefit to even trying to pair meteorites... names are cheap and analysts' time is valuable. Therefore, each specimen can and should be given a separate name. From time to time, a situation comes up where a very strong case can be made for pairing two meteorites from a dense collection area. Usually the motivation for doing so is money: the owners don't want to donate 20 g or 20% type specimens of each of 10 valuable specimens that are so obviously paired. In this case, if they can make an overwhelming case for pairing, including geographic information, then the NomCom can grant a single name to the multiple pieces. For NWA specimens, this is not supposed to happen. The lack of geographic information means that one can not be certain of any potential pairing. Therefore, the NomCom will not grant single names to multiple finds. Of course, superimposed on all of this NomCom policy is what collectors and dealers do by themselves, unsanctioned by the Meteoritical Society. Probably everybody knows of cases where somebody obtained a new specimen and labeled it as an existing meteorite from NWA or another dense collection region. In addition, when NWA and other meteorites are first classified, there often are multiple pieces lumped together. According to NomCom rules, these groupings are only allowed when all the pieces were picked up within a few m of each other or fit together, but there is no guarantee that this is the case. So that's the story. I hope this explains some things. Jeff On 2010-01-18 11:09 AM, Greg Catterton wrote: I have often wondered and after some discussion with others I wanted to get the community feeling on the issue of pairings. If a meteorite say NWA 1877 for example is out there and more is recovered and verified to be the same material from the same strewnfield, should the new material share the NWA number and the TKW be updated? I have noticed many pairings with NWA 1877 and many other meteorites. Same material with different numbers and TKWs listed. Would it not be in the best interest to have all the paired samples share on number? This would surely cut the amount of NWA material by 1000 or more. Why is this not done? What is the process for pairing material to share the NWA number? Is it up to the dealer or the person who did testing? What affect would it have on value if something with a listed TKW of 200g suddenly was paired with the 3 other numbers assigned to the same material and the TKW was pushed to 1kg or more? Surely it would decrease as supply grew. Is this a concern for some? I am trying to better understand the politics/red tape that goes with this area. Thanks, hope everyone is doing well. Greg C. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33
Re: [meteorite-list] Pairing discussion/questions
to share the NWA number? Is it up to the dealer or the person who did testing? What affect would it have on value if something with a listed TKW of 200g suddenly was paired with the 3 other numbers assigned to the same material and the TKW was pushed to 1kg or more? Surely it would decrease as supply grew. Is this a concern for some? I am trying to better understand the politics/red tape that goes with this area. Thanks, hope everyone is doing well. Greg C. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Christian Anger
I just opened my mail and the shock was immediate: 51 mails entitled: Christian Anger! Could not be some good news. Christian was, since the first edition of Ensisheim show, our brightest light, our eternal smiling, a happy to live, cool, energetic, joking, teasing, dancing, charming, funny, blasting personbut also one of the most elegant, gentle, gracious, courteous guys. When he would show up in Ensisheim (he was among the first to comefrom quite far away), he had a pack of that strangely delicious Austrian beer for us to taste. But also lots of meteorites in his bags, for ambulant trade and for the consignment room. The superb 48 g crusted Maigatari-Danduma he displayed there for sale as premium, immediately went into my collection, along with the text describing its weird quest Christian had personally written. Christian soon became our Brother-Ensi-Meteorite-Guardian. And he truly deserved this honor, not only through his highly avid passion, competence and love towards meteorites, but also for his immense kindness, enthusiasm and respect towards children and young amateurs. And, oh yes, the Saturday evening fevers could not have been what they were without Christian's deep impact. I also was so lucky to meet him last November in Munich and we promised each-other to have a great Ensisheim again next year. My friend, now that I start realizing this won't happen, I promise you will never be forgotten. You are our first brother to have gone somewhere over there, where you are now, I am sure, happy and in peace. I am right now planning for your memory some special treat next June and am sure all the people there will join, so as to be so close to you again. I will badly miss your strange Austrian beverage! Jean-Marie Blosser (who does not read our posts) and me, on behalf of the whole Ensisheim Confraternity of Ensi Meteorite Guardians, are joining our heartfelt condolences and sympathy to his family and close friends. Zelimir At 23:56 13/01/2010, impact...@aol.com wrote: Hello everybody, I just received this email (below) from Hanno, with very sad news. For all of you who did not know Christian Anger, he was an expert meteorite collector and a very friendly guy. In his real life he was an Engineer, and lived near Vienna, Austria. He leaves behind an (ex)wife and two little girls. And I still remember when we were waltzing together in Ensisheim, in much happier times. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) Hello Anne, today I received an email from Harald Stehlik, that our good friend Christian Anger had on 14.dec 2009 a very heavy car accident and he died. I am very shocked and sad, because Christian was not only a collector but a friend. Everybody know how much fun we had when we were togheter. We had also other private contact and were real friends. At first he told me that he cannot come to the Munich show, because he had so many private problems in his mind. Then he called me thursday evening when I was in Munich that he decided to come. So he was with us friday evening at the Fliegerbräu and stayed in Munich till sunday afternoon. He helped me to bring some of my material back into the car sunday afternoon. This was the last time I saw him. True friendship never ends.. Hanno Strufe __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Strewnfield or Strewn Field?
Yes Chris, I fully agree with you regarding the falling out of hyphenated words. Another such example is portmanteau you are using here in your post. This word derives from the French porte-manteau (laterally coat (and hat) rack) that is now currently written (yes, even in French) portemanteau. But English still went a step forward by omitting the e. And now in dictionary (e.g. Harrap's Shorter) or on i-Google, you can find that English portmanteau translates into French portemanteau, word that has now 2 different meanings in English (coat rack and hybrid word). Another such example that puzzled me at the time was South-East, written as such on official maps showing South-East Alaska areas. However, when in the area, i noted everywhere (streets, posts stuck on walls...) Southeast. Usage to which I am quite favorable. BTW: in the Harraps, strewnfield does not exist. But now, here in France, since meteorites became popular, the English word strewnfield (never strewn field) is more and more used asa (bastard) French word! (the correct French name is still ellipse de chute, literally fall ellipse). Allmybest, Zelimir At 04:48 15/01/2010, Chris Peterson wrote: This is English you're talking about. What is correct is determined by usage. Strewn field is undoubtedly acceptable, and is the traditional way of writing it. However, there is a growing trend in recent English usage to construct hybrid or portmanteau words- especially in technical areas (thus, webpage is now probably more common than web page). So it isn't surprising to see strewnfield used more often these days. Hyphenated words seem to be falling out of favor somewhat. IMO, any form is fine, but you should exercise consistency. It would be distracting to see it used different ways in the same discussion. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Strewnfield or Strewn Field? Hi Listees, Thanks to you all who've written in with kind words and comments on my new article a few days back titled What is a Meteorite Strewnfield? I really appreciate your compliments. I hope you all enjoyed it. If you haven't read it yet please do so. It's a good informative read, and even has some pretty pictures too. ;) The reason for this email is to ask about proper use of the word(s) strewnfield. While researching the article I noticed that the numerous websites on the internet had 2 ways of spelling the it. Should it be Strewnfield one word... or Strewn Field two seperate words? Every time I type in strewnfield in a search it comes up with Did you mean? strewn field with a space. I've seen it described as Strewn field on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strewn_field Then in the paragraph just below it reads strewnfield all one word again. To make matters more confusing Encyclopedia Britannica has the word with a hyphen i.e; strewn-field. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/569002/strewn-field Google shows 67,500 results for the phrase strewn field and the same amount for strewn-field with a hyphen, meaning they don't recognize the hyphen. Google also shows 23,700 results for the single word strewnfield. Not to mention the many articles and papers all over the internet with ALL 3 ways of usage of the word. So which is it? or does it really matter? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question
Hi Pete, For more details on Maximilian 1st, see here: http://www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/emperormaximilian.htm The episode of his venue to Ensisheim to inquire about the famous stone that fell from the skies is not mentioned, probably considered as a detail in regard with all the other (more important ?) emperor's achievements. But what Gary had summarized in one of his replies is correct. This being, if your question is related to the King of the last Ensisheim meteorite show (June 2009), it must beeither Alain Carion (who received the Golden Meteorite medal for his life achievements related to meteorites) or...Perhaps the dino who is watching him from behind. See the site of Hanno Strufe, page 1, picture 8, here: http://www.strufe.net/0334af9a5a0cf8e1d/0334af9c3213d0302/0334af9c3213de407/index.php BTW the next show edition (11th in a row) is scheduled June 19 and 20, 2010 (this to answer regular off list questions asking for the next show dates) Happy New Year to everybody! I wish you all to hear one day some strange noise (whiiizzz + booomm) and then to find some strange hot and smelly piece of ugly rock in your back yard. But if you don't, keep faith! Or, at least, never loose your meteorite passion! This will keep you happy and in good health, something that is always implicit in the New Year wishes... Zelimir (the 256th and thus the very last in Capt. Blood's list of Met Friends Page) At 16:46 04/01/2010, Pete Shugar wrote: Quick-- Who was the king at Ensisheim? I need it for the presentation. Pete __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Who will come to Munich?
Hi Martin, It is currently very hard for me to find time to attnd that fascinating show. I haven't been there since...1988. However, I am presently being arranging a short (3 days) research stay with my collaborating scientific staff at the Helmholtz Institute (Neuherberg, very close to Munich), where we studyMeteorites. If my coming there succeeds (I'll know next Monday but chances are fairly high), I am planning to be, with some German friends/colleagues, at the show only on Friday (GEOFA), but unfortunately not for the traditional dinner you are certainly willing to organize (we have already scheduled a dinner party at Helmholtz on Friday and on Saturday morning, I have a return train to Mulhouse). I am therefore anxious to see many of you, our current Ensisheim guests (and everyone else) during Friday (I believe chances to meet are high in the Halle 6A?). After all, Bayern beer should be at least as good as in Alsace (though never as delicius as the worst Belgian lager (hi, hi I know that you know that I am sometimes as provocative as you!). My best, Zelimir PS: Martin, is there a need for a specific invitation to attend only on Friday (that is the dealer's day) ? Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de a écrit : It's time for the Munich show! Who will be there? Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Stolen Specimens from Iceland
Dear Peter, listees, Indeed, this is a terrible news, a real shame! What can be done ? We, as collectors and mineral (zeolite) lovers should (must!) act, through one way or another. Personally as a natural zeolite collector and lover, I am ready to transfer the news (Peter's mail) to anyone who might be concerned closely or from afar. As an active member of the International Zeolite Association (IZA) and elected member of two IZA sub-commissions, namely the Synthesis Commission and Natural Zeolite Commission, also as a member of the International Natural Zeolite Association (INZA), I will now promptly alert the heads or responsible persons of these associations about the theft. Believing that the stolen specimens can (most probably will) also readily reach the various collector's markets (mineral shows), it could be advisable to contact the main responsibles/chairmen of the forthcoming mineral show in Europe and elsewhere. I am personally in regular contact with the organizers of the Europe's top Munich show (next edition: Oct 31, Nov 01, contacts: Johannes Christoph Keilmann), The (biggest in Belgium) Liege mineral show (Nov 6-8, contact Roger Warin), the future Ste Marie-aux-Mines show (Euro Mineral Expo, June 24-27, 2010, Michel Schwab) and, with the help of many friends, I am ready to contact many other show organizers in Europe as well. I believe our List members from overseas can do the same for the US shows. Finally, I will contact editors of the main European mineralogical journals (I do regularly subscribe to many of them) and encourage them to put a related advertisement. Museum curators are possible candidates for contacts so I believe Peter can help here, by alerting his colleagues (or providing the appropriate addresses). It would be also appropriate that a list describing the stolen specimens, possibly with pictures, be somewhere available (Peter, is there a web site available anywhere ?). Zeolites from Berufjördur (Teigarhorn national park) are old and very valuable classics, world renown as true zeolite references. I have the privilege to owe a few (old specimens with genuine 19th century labels, most acquired in the 1980', 1990's from show dealers and originating from well known German and/or French mineralogical museum duplicates). They are considered among the most aesthetic of the zeolites in the mineral kingdom. Moreover, Teigarhorn is also the type locality of epistilbite. I am convinced we really must do something very promptly to try to stop thieves from dispersing this world heritage throughout the wild market. Thank you very much Peter! My best, Zelimir At 10:07 21/10/2009, Peter Davidson wrote: Dear List Members I apologise for taking you a little off-topic (like that's never happened before!), but I would like to bring the following very disturbing news to your attention. I know from chatting to many of you, and I am thinking of people like Zelimir Gabelica, that not a few of you are keen on collecting minerals, especially zeolites, so this may be of interest to many of you out there. The message is: Dear Peter Thank you for the information regarding the Meeting in Munich. Due to teaching duties I will arrive only later in the afternoon and I am not sure whether I can make it to the meeting. However, I would like to ask you for a favour: I just got notice from a Swiss geologist in Iceland (a former student of mine) that the Mineral museum at Teigarhorn in Djupivogur (Berufjord), in the heart of the zeolite find area, has recently been robbed and a significant number of mineral specimens have been stolen. http://www.mindat.org/mesg-56-156779.html http://www.mbl.is/mm/frettir/innlent/2009/10/17/um_500_steinum_stolid_a_ teigarhorni/ (in Icelandic) According to this report 500 pieces valued around 120'000 US$. Christa Feucht is collecting any information regarding this incident for the museum there. chri...@feucht.ch phone +354 8659857 (Iceland) http://geothermal.is/employees/17 It would be great if you could circulate this information among the members and perhaps mention this during the meeting. I hope still to make it to the meeting. With my best regards Beda (Hofmann) (Natural History Museum, Bern, Switzerland) I would ask all of you to keep your eyes and ears open and to alert the authorities if you hear of anything. I would also ask you to please pass this message on to other mineral collectors, dealers and curators you may know. Many thanks for your attention Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44 131 247 4283 p.david...@nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk Salt of the Earth: famous faces with Scottish roots, photographed by Craig Mackay. National Museum of Scotland. Opening 16 October. www.nms.ac.uk/salt http://www.nms.ac.uk/salt __ http
