Re: [meteorite-list] Blaine Reed Tucson Notes & AD
The one and only year I have been able to attend the Tucson show so far, I was fortuante enough to make Blaine's room one of my first stops, and I still have (and will treasure!) the small slice of Imilac I got from him. The auctions are nice, and I met twice as many people there as I did by just cruising around, but usually auction prices seem to drift out of my reach. Auctions are for showpieces and rarities, the dinner-plate size slice of Brahin that will become the focus of a collection, and as such, it becomes a choice between several smaller pieces or one show-stopping number from an auction. The biggest hurdle I found to my buying/collecting/visiting was trying to track down where all the meteorite dealers were located. Once I had done that, then I had to drive all over creation to visit individual seller's rooms scattered all over Tucson. Many meteorite people come to Tucson exclusively to talk story with all the other meteorite collectors and dealers. Maybe it would be beneficial for as many sellers as possible to congregate in one or two venues. I know I would much rather spend time looking at Lunars and other rare achondrites than driving, parking, paying for parking... you get the idea. Also, if most of the dealers are at one or two hotels, going to the management of that hotel and saying "We would like to rent out your restaurant for a party on this evening, and 20% of the people who are staying here will attend" gives you a lot more buying power suddenly. JMHO and 2 cents. Tracy Latimer _ http://homepage.msn.com/zune?icid=hmetagline __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Blaine Reed Tucson Notes & AD
Hello Al et al., I would like to second Al's suggestion that any Tucson attendee is really missing out if they don't spend some time at Blaine's room. He always has interesting material and is just a great source of meteorite information and lore. To me he is an essential part of the Tucson experience. Regards, Jim Baxter > Greetings Tucson attendees, > > Here is my two grams worth on the auctions, dealer rooms, participation > and parties. First I know that the dealer rooms were the first > participants at the show many years back. Robert Haag probably was the > first real dealer to set up and offer meteorites at the show. Other > dealers soon followed as they offered a much needed service. Back then > few people knew what a meteorite was and didn't think you would ever be > able to own one or offer them for re-sale. Dealers are paying about two > thousand or more to be a part of the show (which is suppose to be a > wholesale show) and to rent the rooms from the show organizers. Travel > there and setting up and time are other factors and costs. Obviously > this is a sizable investment for them and they need a fair return. > > Several years back someone decided to have an auction, not sure who but > I would think it was the upscale auction from a New York dealer or > possibly Michael Blood. As Blaine said those tended to compliment the > dealers and no real problems. As the auctions caught on, a number of > people would reserve specimens in some rooms and then go to the auctions > in order to bid on items. Apparently after bidding on a number of > things at auction, the same people who reserved specimens in dealer > rooms would go back toward the end of the show and "change their minds" > on the items they had taken off the shelves. Worse yet some didn't > bother to return and let the dealer know they no longer wanted their > reserved items. This results in the dealers selling less and costing > them. > > As the auctions gained favor and higher attendance a lower volume of > sales were realized by room dealers. Of course it is more complicated > than just this. There are now more dealers than ever, it is more > difficult for foreign collectors to travel due to past events, other > dealers have offered their own auctions to counter the other auctions > and get people back in their rooms to look around. The show is not > nearly as large as it once was due to the internet and rock and gem > attendees having a lower count these days. I am sure ebay plays a factor > to some degree. There are also a number of party events that compete > for attendees time. > > One trend that bothers me is the number of deals I see being made by > "dealers" who don't have rooms but make the rounds to other dealer > rooms. In some cases deals are being made in the paying dealer's room > and has nothing to do with his inventory. To me this is very rude and if > participants can't go outside or meet in a motel room to conduct their > business they should at least offer the room dealer a percentage of the > profit they are making in the offended dealers room. Courtesy seems to > have vanished these days. > > There are few dealers that have the knowledge and understanding of > meteorites these days like Blaine Reed does. I think he is a vital part > of the show and it will be a sad day if he can no longer afford to > attend these shows. I recommend that if you attend the show, at least > take a little time out to visit some of the old timers like Blaine. I > think you will be pleased by his display, his helpful manor, his > knowledge of the subject and best his reasonable prices. There may be a > day when all this dries up and the pilgrimage to Tucson will no longer > be and a subject that we only talk about. As dealers close their doors > there will be less an less reason to attend the show. > > With all this said I hope no one takes offense as it is not directed at > any particular party. Rather it is an effort to get some of the other > attendee's thoughts on the subject and stimulate discussion. While I am > guilty of attending some of the auctions and understand the allure of > going to them I still make the rounds to the rooms (as many as I can in > the time I have) and spend a fair amount with them as well. Part of > Tucson is the socializing, seeing what all is available from years past, > and getting an idea of what items may become available in the near > future. I hope to see others comment and share their thoughts on all of > this. > > BTW, I do like the idea of scheduling a hotel so we can deal the > organizers out but don't know the legalities of doing this. I might be > willing to set up my collection if we ever went this way. Perhaps a show > could be scheduled in some other town, although I would miss the > restaurants in Tucson. Best! > > --AL Mitterling > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman
Re: [meteorite-list] Blaine Reed Tucson Notes & AD
Greetings Tucson attendees, Here is my two grams worth on the auctions, dealer rooms, participation and parties. First I know that the dealer rooms were the first participants at the show many years back. Robert Haag probably was the first real dealer to set up and offer meteorites at the show. Other dealers soon followed as they offered a much needed service. Back then few people knew what a meteorite was and didn't think you would ever be able to own one or offer them for re-sale. Dealers are paying about two thousand or more to be a part of the show (which is suppose to be a wholesale show) and to rent the rooms from the show organizers. Travel there and setting up and time are other factors and costs. Obviously this is a sizable investment for them and they need a fair return. Several years back someone decided to have an auction, not sure who but I would think it was the upscale auction from a New York dealer or possibly Michael Blood. As Blaine said those tended to compliment the dealers and no real problems. As the auctions caught on, a number of people would reserve specimens in some rooms and then go to the auctions in order to bid on items. Apparently after bidding on a number of things at auction, the same people who reserved specimens in dealer rooms would go back toward the end of the show and "change their minds" on the items they had taken off the shelves. Worse yet some didn't bother to return and let the dealer know they no longer wanted their reserved items. This results in the dealers selling less and costing them. As the auctions gained favor and higher attendance a lower volume of sales were realized by room dealers. Of course it is more complicated than just this. There are now more dealers than ever, it is more difficult for foreign collectors to travel due to past events, other dealers have offered their own auctions to counter the other auctions and get people back in their rooms to look around. The show is not nearly as large as it once was due to the internet and rock and gem attendees having a lower count these days. I am sure ebay plays a factor to some degree. There are also a number of party events that compete for attendees time. One trend that bothers me is the number of deals I see being made by "dealers" who don't have rooms but make the rounds to other dealer rooms. In some cases deals are being made in the paying dealer's room and has nothing to do with his inventory. To me this is very rude and if participants can't go outside or meet in a motel room to conduct their business they should at least offer the room dealer a percentage of the profit they are making in the offended dealers room. Courtesy seems to have vanished these days. There are few dealers that have the knowledge and understanding of meteorites these days like Blaine Reed does. I think he is a vital part of the show and it will be a sad day if he can no longer afford to attend these shows. I recommend that if you attend the show, at least take a little time out to visit some of the old timers like Blaine. I think you will be pleased by his display, his helpful manor, his knowledge of the subject and best his reasonable prices. There may be a day when all this dries up and the pilgrimage to Tucson will no longer be and a subject that we only talk about. As dealers close their doors there will be less an less reason to attend the show. With all this said I hope no one takes offense as it is not directed at any particular party. Rather it is an effort to get some of the other attendee's thoughts on the subject and stimulate discussion. While I am guilty of attending some of the auctions and understand the allure of going to them I still make the rounds to the rooms (as many as I can in the time I have) and spend a fair amount with them as well. Part of Tucson is the socializing, seeing what all is available from years past, and getting an idea of what items may become available in the near future. I hope to see others comment and share their thoughts on all of this. BTW, I do like the idea of scheduling a hotel so we can deal the organizers out but don't know the legalities of doing this. I might be willing to set up my collection if we ever went this way. Perhaps a show could be scheduled in some other town, although I would miss the restaurants in Tucson. Best! --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Blaine Reed Tucson Notes & AD
Hi Mark, all - Tucson was a gas, but from what I could make out, Inn Suites was charging the dealers (and thus the dealers' customers) as much as they could. Then Inn Suites shut down the bar early and put out the fire outside of it. oh yeah, "thank you" Inn Suites... The guards at the Arizona Plaza(?) suddenly got all bent and huffy when Mohamed and his friends showed up - I saw that and thought, well, f**k that, that's when I stepped outside to join them - and that's when the guards let Mohamed and his guests in. The remaining guard then would not let the other invited guests in out of the cold - but it was his boss who put him up to it and then left - "thank you" too Arizona Plaza.. My thinking is that maybe the meteorite dealers should simply get together, move down the street, and completely take over the No-Tell Motel for the duration - way cheaper and way less hassles. I suspect that there would not be any problem with party guests there... insstead of hiring a guard or using a safe, perhaps some list members could just bring their firearms... I need to write a detailed thank you note, this one of real thanks, to many, but I want to thank Ms Haag and Bob for the soak in the whirlpool during the second half of Lang's auction... PS - best wishes to Ms Lang for a speedy recovery, and a special thanks to Art for selling me a mint copy of Nininger's Meteor Crater booklet "A Comet Strikes the Earth" from Nininger's estate. good hunting, Ed --- MARK BOSTICK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Blaine Reed is not part of the meteorite list so I > am sending this along for > him. > > You can join his e-mail group by going to Yahoo. > > Mark > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Dear Collectors, > > > > I am finally back from Tucson (comments on the > show below) and > >unpacked enough to offer some of what I brought > back now (my next few > >offerings are likely to be such stuff). Many of > these items are > >consignments left with me at the show. As the > owners of the largest > >pieces want either their money or the items > returned, I likely will be > >offering these first (I would much rather sell them > than have to pay > >expensive registered return postage), but I will be > offering more > >smaller and affordable items later on (many of > these need preparation > >work that I have not had time for anyway). > > > >Notes on the show: > > > >I have had quite a few people call and ask how > things went. To be > >honest, in a word it was slow. In two words it was > very slow. There > >were not many buyers wandering the show this year > and many dealers > >suffered for it. I managed to do fairly well none > the less (but down > >quite a bit from last year). What I am VERY > concerned about is an > >increasing development the past few years in the > actions of the > >meteorite collecting public. > > > > The show in general has been noticeably slowing > the past few years. > >This is probably due to many factors such as cost > (every thing gets > >more expensive in Tucson each year), increased time > needed to see the > >people you need to see (as many dealers leave early > and others show up > >late, almost 8 or 10 days is needed to be sure > everybody you need to > >see will actually be there) and the internet (many > of the large chain > >stores no longer buy at the shows, but have > arranged supply contracts > >through internet connections now). > > > > I had been quite smug for the past years of this > decline as we had a > >close knit community in meteorites that seemed to > defy these problems. > > Collectors would come to the show for several > days, visit dealers, go > >to parties and to auctions. Everything seemed to > complement each > >other. Now I am seeing the rapid unraveling of this > once neat social > >fabric. > > > >I had originally assumed that not many collectors > showed up this year > > (I had maybe 35 meteorite people come to my room > this year I even > >had trouble giving out all of my special Tucson > wine glasses this > >year). I was quickly shown how wrong I was when we > attempted to attend > >the "Meteorite Mayhem" party of Steve Arnold and > Geoff Notkin. We > >arrived late due to circumstances (business). The > security guard would > >not let us in, as the bar was "over capacity". We > waited as several > >people left, but he would still not allow us in. An > attempt at bribery > >(alas, poor George just doesn't have the > negotiating power he once > >did) and we were told to beat it. Before > leaving I looked in the > >windows to see many dozens (possible a couple > hundred) of people that > >had, at one time been my customers that I had not > seen in many years. > >Clearly there is a problem on my end. > > > >What I am finding from the few I have been able to > talk with is that > >most collectors have now become completely focused > on the auctions > >only. Most fly in Friday night, go to Lang's > auction on Saturday and > >go to Blood's Saturday night
[meteorite-list] Blaine Reed Tucson Notes & AD
Blaine Reed is not part of the meteorite list so I am sending this along for him. You can join his e-mail group by going to Yahoo. Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Dear Collectors, > > I am finally back from Tucson (comments on the show below) and >unpacked enough to offer some of what I brought back now (my next few >offerings are likely to be such stuff). Many of these items are >consignments left with me at the show. As the owners of the largest >pieces want either their money or the items returned, I likely will be >offering these first (I would much rather sell them than have to pay >expensive registered return postage), but I will be offering more >smaller and affordable items later on (many of these need preparation >work that I have not had time for anyway). > >Notes on the show: > >I have had quite a few people call and ask how things went. To be >honest, in a word it was slow. In two words it was very slow. There >were not many buyers wandering the show this year and many dealers >suffered for it. I managed to do fairly well none the less (but down >quite a bit from last year). What I am VERY concerned about is an >increasing development the past few years in the actions of the >meteorite collecting public. > > The show in general has been noticeably slowing the past few years. >This is probably due to many factors such as cost (every thing gets >more expensive in Tucson each year), increased time needed to see the >people you need to see (as many dealers leave early and others show up >late, almost 8 or 10 days is needed to be sure everybody you need to >see will actually be there) and the internet (many of the large chain >stores no longer buy at the shows, but have arranged supply contracts >through internet connections now). > > I had been quite smug for the past years of this decline as we had a >close knit community in meteorites that seemed to defy these problems. > Collectors would come to the show for several days, visit dealers, go >to parties and to auctions. Everything seemed to complement each >other. Now I am seeing the rapid unraveling of this once neat social >fabric. > >I had originally assumed that not many collectors showed up this year > (I had maybe 35 meteorite people come to my room this year – I even >had trouble giving out all of my special Tucson wine glasses this >year). I was quickly shown how wrong I was when we attempted to attend >the "Meteorite Mayhem" party of Steve Arnold and Geoff Notkin. We >arrived late due to circumstances (business). The security guard would >not let us in, as the bar was "over capacity". We waited as several >people left, but he would still not allow us in. An attempt at bribery >(alas, poor George just doesn't have the negotiating power he once >did) and we were told to beat – it. Before leaving I looked in the >windows to see many dozens (possible a couple hundred) of people that >had, at one time been my customers that I had not seen in many years. >Clearly there is a problem on my end. > >What I am finding from the few I have been able to talk with is that >most collectors have now become completely focused on the auctions >only. Most fly in Friday night, go to Lang's auction on Saturday and >go to Blood's Saturday night (and often don't get out until well after >midnight) and fly home Sunday morning. I do understand that for many, >they are unable to take the extra vacation days to visit the show. > >I have been trying to formulate some kind of answer as to how I can >become relevant to the visiting collectors once more. This is a >difficult thing to do when facing something like auctions that seem to >work on the same powerful emotional areas as gambling in the human >brain. I have had a few ideas such as; > >1) Maybe moving to Inn Suites to be a little easier for those already >visiting the dealers there to find me (though I don't think many of >the dealers there had huge amounts of visitors either). >2) Starting one of my own auctions (Alan once told me this is why he >started his – to get collectors to at least come to his room and see >what else he has to offer ), though I have no idea when I could hold >such an event that wouldn't interfere with the already existing ones >(which would end up being a detriment to all of us). 3) Setting aside most >of my really special or unique items (commonly >available stuff generally does poorly at auction) during the year and >consign them to one of the existing auctions (not a bad idea actually, >but then I would not have these neat items available during the year). >The plus of this one is that it could eventually save me huge amounts >of money (if I do end up shutting down my Tucson show room that is, >then I would only have to be in town for a few days to do some buying >and let the auctions do the selling). >4) I am trying to convince Steve and Geoff to allow us dealers to each >set up a small display table (no need to haul in a bunch of >Sikhote-Alins, NWA 869's and other comm
