[meteorite-list] India report #2.
Good evening everyone, it is 10 pm here in Bhubaneswar India. another rainy day, more flooding, lots of problems. I went back to Kendrapara today, and was able to break through the absolutely hopeless Indian beurocracy and see the meteorites. I had to go to their version of a state or city hall, the place in charge of the surrounding area. They are working on the flood emergency, and told me that over 1000 villages are submerged and so many people dead, interestingly the Indian Government only reports 17 dead, and according to the locals, it is in the hundreds. Anyway, after alot of talking, explaining who I was and liberal if not quite true use of the word University, and making formal request letters to see and photograph the stones, the convened a meeting, made alot of phone calls, and just at dark I finally got authorization to go to the finance department and open the vault and play with the meteorites. The two stones they still have here are 5.7 kilos and a 500 gram fragment. They are stored in a large metal lock box, sealed with cord and then sealed with a wax stamp to avoid tampering. They do not really know what they are, and with the government people all demanding the stones, they have refused to release them to anyone since they do not understand who they belong to. It seems that the local and federal government are about to fight over them. I got to fully examine them, and took about 40 photos, but since the sun had set and they had one tiny light in the building, I dont know how well they will come out. The large stone was very nicely regmaglypted, but one side was broken off, and already very badly weathered only two weeks after the fall. The wet climate takes it's toll on meteorites fast. The other piece was from another stone which the villagers had broken up, and the other pieces have all been taken already. It is a breccia, like I said nice slickensides, i could not see many chondrules, but clearly an H chondrite. There is no possibility of any acquisition of these pieces, they made a special file just for me that I opened the box and examined the stone. It seems that in India, a file is made for even the slightest thing, as I said, just to see the stones I had to make a formal letter, get it signed by about 20 people, and authorized by countless more by telephone. The local government people were absolutely fascinated though. they asked me so many questions, and one of them thought that this was the first time in history that a stone had fallen from space, hence the reluctance to even show them. They were all afraid of radiation or viruses, and all did not understand why the stone burned. I explained the super high velocity is the cause of the fireball and burning, but they could not comprehend a stone burning because it was moving so fast. there was also an armed guard there while I opened the box! I was reported to the police by the cheif of the Suniti village, where the large stone fell, he wanted me to give him money yesterday so that he could get me a stone, I refused so I guess he called the state police today and reported me stealing a large stone, the police were surprised when I showed up at the station today, as I could only be the American who was to be arrested on sight. Of course they laughed it off, I did not find it quite as ammusing. Overall, even though the extreme beurocracy is what seems to stifle the Indian government, they were all very nice and just wanted to cover their own butts as it was explained to me. I doubt I will get any other pieces, so tomorrow is a tourism day, beach and temples. I saw alot of very tame monkeys today, ad even fed a few some bananas from on top of my head! You put a little banana up on your head, and the monkeys run right up your back and sit on your head eating away! I must say, that I appreciate every single day of travel that meteorites have brought me, even though it seems I will lose my shirt on this trip, oh well, ill make it up next time when I get the next fall. I am so pleased that I got my own little piece of this fall, bought right from the tiny village where it smashed the edge of a hut. I will never part with that piece. I have tons of photos, and will make a nice web page when I get home. But hey, all is not over yet, we are waiting on a phone call from the villages, and if it comes Ill go get a large stone, it is out there, hiding from me for now, but I have two more full days here in the strewnfield to make up for lost time. For those of you who like these rambling emails, thanks for listening, for those who hate me, oh well, I will never apologize for being myself, I may say things that should not be said sometimes, and I am sorry for that, but to me I value a person who speaks their mind and lets their feelings be known much more than a coward who lies to your face. I am exausted again, driving at night here is the worst kind of Russian Roulette, and it takes it's toll. Until tomorrow. Another
Re: [meteorite-list] India report #2.
Mike, Just wanted to thank you for taking me - and everyone else on the List - along with you on your latest hunting adventure. I'm one of the, shall we say, "less well off" members of the List, and I can't afford to jump on a plane and do an Indiana Jones like you do, so it is always a treat to be able to travel virtually with you, and others, to far flung corners of the globe in search of new specimens. I wish you nothing but good fortune on this trip, seriously. What I think some others in this community forget is that you're representing ALL of us out there, and I think you're doing a bloody good job, if you'll excuse my language. So, good luck out there - go get 'em! :-) My own travelling is rather more modest. Two weeks ago I was up in the Shetland Islands - a scattering of tree-less, wind-swept, sea-battered, aurora-lit rocky outcrops so far north of Scotland they're almost as close to Norway as they are to the British mainland - doing some "Outreach" work in schools up there. It rained almost the whole week, so much I was either going to start growing gills or building a big boat and rounding up pairs of animals, but I had an amazing time. I visited 5 different schools in 5 days, some small, some big, but all the kids I talked to - and the total must have been around 400 over the week - were fascinated by astronomy, and absolutely hypnotised by the selection of meteorites I took along with me to show them and let them hold. Up there, almost totally free from light pollution, and blessed with skies that overflow with stars when the icy North Atlantic winds blow the clouds away, they've had a spectacular view of Mars over the summer, so you can imagine how thrilled they were to be able to see and actually hold tiny pieces of Zagami. My much-travelled Canyon Diablo was passed around again and again, and other pieces were received just as enthusiastically. Wonderful kids, really, so polite and curious, and such fun too! In a school on a tiny island called Whallsay, one girl, Heather, patiently listened to me telling her group how cold Pluto was then raised her hand with a question: "So," she asked in her almost-Scandanavian accent, face absolutely dead-pan serious, "if I went to Pluto with my cat, and threw it outside without a spacesuit on, would it freeze solid?" That was enough of a stunner, but when she went on to enquire if her petrified cat would "break into bits" if she hit it with a hammer I lost it, totally cracked up, even as the teacher looked on aghast, hand over mouth, from the sidelines. ( Turned out the class had seen a demonstration of a rose dipped in liquid oxygen the week before, and Heather put two and two together to make 5...! ) The Shetlands are Viking country, and the Norse mythology about the sky, particularly the aurora, is fascinating. Apparently when the Norse people witnessed an aurora they thought they were seeing, among other things, the Dead playing with the head of a walrus, or clans of gods fighting, splashing blood (the red aurora) across the sky... Didn't find any meteorites as I wandered the broad, sandy beaches, under a truly enormous sky, but maybe next time. What I do have, which is almost as good, is a big pile of Thank You letters from many of the kids I met, many of them sharing their excitement about getting to hold the meteorites and "bits of Mars", which are very special. So, not exactly India, but just as exciting in its own way. Good luck out there Mike, you're doing a fine job. I'm sure I speak for a lot of folks on this List, the silent majority, when I say that I'm proud of ya - and very grateful for letting me ride in your pocket as you hunt! Take care, Stu
Re: [meteorite-list] India report #2.
Mike, Thanks for making the effort to post a report of your adventure in India. News like yours makes wading through the garbage on the Meteorite List worth the effort. and Matteo, I know there are several List members who have had to deal with your unorthodox and questionable business ethics, including myself. Most have kept quiet because they know it's good form to keep one's mouth shut most of the time. However, when you provoke responses from the likes of good characters like Dave Freeman and Dave Andrews, you're starting to step on more than just people's toes. Brothers Andrews and Freeman have expressed their opinions concerning you incessant whining and complaining, and there will be more to follow if you continue your banal rhetoric. You certainly don't want more testimonials to make their way to this List, do you? Your silence would be greatly appreciated, John Gwilliam At 09:52 AM 10/10/03 -0700, Michael Farmer wrote: Good evening everyone, it is 10 pm here in Bhubaneswar India. another rainy day, more flooding, lots of problems. I went back to Kendrapara today, and was able to break through the absolutely hopeless Indian beurocracy and see the meteorites. I had to go to their version of a state or city hall, the place in charge of the surrounding area. They are working on the flood emergency, and told me that over 1000 villages are submerged and so many people dead, interestingly the Indian Government only reports 17 dead, and according to the locals, it is in the hundreds. Anyway, after alot of talking, explaining who I was and liberal if not quite true use of the word University, and making formal request letters to see and photograph the stones, the convened a meeting, made alot of phone calls, and just at dark I finally got authorization to go to the finance department and open the vault and play with the meteorites. The two stones they still have here are 5.7 kilos and a 500 gram fragment. They are stored in a large metal lock box, sealed with cord and then sealed with a wax stamp to avoid tampering. They do not really know what they are, and with the government people all demanding the stones, they have refused to release them to anyone since they do not understand who they belong to. It seems that the local and federal government are about to fight over them. I got to fully examine them, and took about 40 photos, but since the sun had set and they had one tiny light in the building, I dont know how well they will come out. The large stone was very nicely regmaglypted, but one side was broken off, and already very badly weathered only two weeks after the fall. The wet climate takes it's toll on meteorites fast. The other piece was from another stone which the villagers had broken up, and the other pieces have all been taken already. It is a breccia, like I said nice slickensides, i could not see many chondrules, but clearly an H chondrite. There is no possibility of any acquisition of these pieces, they made a special file just for me that I opened the box and examined the stone. It seems that in India, a file is made for even the slightest thing, as I said, just to see the stones I had to make a formal letter, get it signed by about 20 people, and authorized by countless more by telephone. The local government people were absolutely fascinated though. they asked me so many questions, and one of them thought that this was the first time in history that a stone had fallen from space, hence the reluctance to even show them. They were all afraid of radiation or viruses, and all did not understand why the stone burned. I explained the super high velocity is the cause of the fireball and burning, but they could not comprehend a stone burning because it was moving so fast. there was also an armed guard there while I opened the box! I was reported to the police by the cheif of the Suniti village, where the large stone fell, he wanted me to give him money yesterday so that he could get me a stone, I refused so I guess he called the state police today and reported me stealing a large stone, the police were surprised when I showed up at the station today, as I could only be the American who was to be arrested on sight. Of course they laughed it off, I did not find it quite as ammusing. Overall, even though the extreme beurocracy is what seems to stifle the Indian government, they were all very nice and just wanted to cover their own butts as it was explained to me. I doubt I will get any other pieces, so tomorrow is a tourism day, beach and temples. I saw alot of very tame monkeys today, ad even fed a few some bananas from on top of my head! You put a little banana up on your head, and the monkeys run right up your back and sit on your head eating away! I must say, that I appreciate every single day of travel that meteorites have brought me, even though it seems I will lose my shirt on this trip, oh well, ill make it up next time when I get the next fall. I am so
Re: [meteorite-list] India report #2.
--- John Gwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matteo, I know there are several List members who have had to deal with your unorthodox and questionable business ethics, including myself. Most have kept quiet because they know it's good form to keep one's mouth shut most of the time. However, when you provoke responses from the likes of good characters like Dave Freeman and Dave Andrews, you're starting to step on more than just people's toes. Brothers Andrews and Freeman have expressed their opinions concerning you incessant whining and complaining, and there will be more to follow if you continue your banal rhetoric. You certainly don't want more testimonials to make their way to this List, do you? Your silence would be greatly appreciated, Ah yes. ... who have been these persons, I am actual curious to know, but I see that here it is threatened but not speaks. Pertain the meteorites, big little, gained from you always I paid immediately, see also on ebay, while with a certain meteorite you pretended of not understand that I wanted to buy it when had given it ok that was on hold for me, and after few minutes had been sold. I repeat, to all the persons that I have sold meteorites any of this has complained, therefore I do not know where you dream you these persons that did not do questionable business with me, while to the opposite one I should say it with who did questionable business, and it seems to have me also written. Pertain my silence, if I want I am quiet, not you of secure you make myself be quiet. Matteo = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] India report #2.
M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: --- John Gwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matteo, I know there are several List members who have had to deal with your unorthodox and questionable business ethics, including myself. Most have kept quiet because they know it's good form to keep one's mouth shut most of the time. However, when you provoke responses from the likes of good characters like Dave Freeman and Dave Andrews, you're starting to step on more than just people's toes. Brothers Andrews and Freeman have expressed their opinions concerning you incessant whining and complaining, and there will be more to follow if you continue your banal rhetoric. You certainly don't want more testimonials to make their way to this List, do you? Your silence would be greatly appreciated, Ah yes. ... who have been these persons, I am actual curious to know, but I see that here it is threatened but not speaks. Pertain the meteorites, big little, gained from you always I paid immediately, see also on ebay, while with a certain meteorite you pretended of not understand that I wanted to buy it when had given it ok that was on hold for me, and after few minutes had been sold. I repeat, to all the persons that I have sold meteorites any of this has complained, therefore I do not know where you dream you these persons that did not do questionable business with me, while to the opposite one I should say it with who did questionable business, and it seems to have me also written. Pertain my silence, if I want I am quiet, not you of secure you make myself be quiet. Matteo Matteo, Your mail is filtered into my trash bin but others continue to quote your e-mails on their posts. I do not want to be included in your satisfied customer group so I'll speak up as you have asked. In fact, I have spoken up for over a year if you had noticed. Have you ever visited my Links page on my Meteorite Studies website? If so you would have seen a link at the end of the list titled Once burnt, twice shy. I maintain this page with all due deliberation. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] India report #2
Stu wrote: Mike, Just wanted to thank you for taking me - and everyone else on the List - along with you on your latest hunting adventure. I'm one of the, shall we say, "less welloff" members of the List, and I can't afford to jump on a plane and do an Indiana Jones like you do, so it is always a treat to be able to travel virtually with you,and others, to far flung corners of the globe in search of new specimens. I wish you nothing but good fortune on this trip, seriously. What I think some others inthis community forget is that you're representing ALL of us out there, and I think you're doing a bloody good job, if you'll excuse my language. So, good luck out there - go get 'em! :-) I agree 100%! Thanks a lot MIKE!!! Peter M.
Re: [meteorite-list] India report #2.
Matteo, Your mail is filtered into my trash bin but others continue to quote your e-mails on their posts. I do not want to be included in your satisfied customer group so I'll speak up as you have asked. In fact, I have spoken up for over a year if you had noticed. Have you ever visited my Links page on my Meteorite Studies website? If so you would have seen a link at the end of the list titled Once burnt, twice shy. I maintain this page with all due deliberation. David Item purchased was not classified as advertised. Very poor communication. HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you have look my sale site? Now I not remember what you have buy, if is NWA 1058 or 1054, but one is a primitive achondrite like winonaite exit in the last Met.Bull. if is NWA 1054 is a achondrite acapulcoite. First to write idiocies look the updatings. However most of you disappointed me in all of the fronts, people that I thought adult instead show themselves alone of the children that beat the foots on the ground, like if the argument meteorites is of USA property, when the history of meteorites is born in Europe. Who wants knows where to find me, sincerely speack with similar persons I am not interested. This is my last email I write on this argument, now I know from who to keep a distance and I will know to inform also the others. without not any respect Matteo = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] India report #2.
Matteo: This is my last email I write on thisargument, Does this meanyou are leaving the list.again? Gregory
Re: [meteorite-list] India report #2.
At 01:39 PM 10/10/03 -0700, M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: --- John Gwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matteo, I know there are several List members who have had to deal with your unorthodox and questionable business ethics, including myself. Most have kept quiet because they know it's good form to keep one's mouth shut most of the time. However, when you provoke responses from the likes of good characters like Dave Freeman and Dave Andrews, you're starting to step on more than just people's toes. Brothers Andrews and Freeman have expressed their opinions concerning you incessant whining and complaining, and there will be more to follow if you continue your banal rhetoric. You certainly don't want more testimonials to make their way to this List, do you? Your silence would be greatly appreciated, Ah yes. ... who have been these persons, I am actual curious to know, but I see that here it is threatened but not speaks. Pertain the meteorites, big little, gained from you always I paid immediately, see also on ebay, while with a certain meteorite you pretended of not understand that I wanted to buy it when had given it ok that was on hold for me, and after few minutes had been sold. I repeat, to all the persons that I have sold meteorites any of this has complained, therefore I do not know where you dream you these persons that did not do questionable business with me, while to the opposite one I should say it with who did questionable business, and it seems to have me also written. Pertain my silence, if I want I am quiet, not you of secure you make myself be quiet. Matteo Matteo, Since you decided to respond to my last post via the List, I'll elaborate on a few things. First of all, any of the folks that I referred to having personal knowledge of your unorthodox and questionable business ethics can speak for themselves if they so choose. Since my communications with them was private, I'll not post any of our conversations without their permission or approval. Before you began using Paypal, you won one of my meteorites on Ebay. You emailed me and said you'd be sending me cash in the mail. When you letter arrived, it contained several U.S. twenty dollar bills. The problem was that your payment was short twenty dollars. When I contacted you by email and told you about the shortage, your first claimed I was trying to cheat you. My reply to you was simple - your payment was short twenty dollars and the meteorite wouldn't be sent to you until the problem was corrected. Your next email blamed the problem on the corrupt Italian mail system. I actually got quite a laugh out of the idea that a crooked Italian postal clerk would steal just one twenty dollar bill out of six. To be fair, I will say that you did send the missing twenty dollars and your meteorite was sent to you. During a conversation with another dealer, I mentioned the missing twenty dollars. He commented that this was a standard practice with you. Checking with a few more folks in the meteorite community, I got similar responses. The other incident you refer to in you post is incorrect. It did not involve a meteorite on Ebay, but was the most recent sale I posted to the List. The sale, as always, said first come, first served or something similar to those words. Nowhere did I mention that I would accept trades. I received an email from you requesting me to put a specimen on hold for you and would I be interested in doing a trade. I replied no and you next email to me asked If I would accept delayed payment from you - somewhere in the time frame of two weeks to a month, I don't remember exactly. During the time between your emails, someone else contacted me and said they wanted the specimen and would send payment as soon as I sent them a total. The way I see it, Matteo, you missed out on getting the specimen in question because you were too busy trying to negotiate a trade (which I didn't want) and/or a delay of payment(which I didn't agree to). During the rest of the day, I received SIX emails from you where you ranted and raved about injustice...blah, blah, blah. Same old, same old. Now if anyone else chooses to share with the List any of their experiences with you, that's their business. I'd think most of them would want to avoid your tirades of verbal diarrhea so they'll probably shy away. Like David Weir, you emails have been filtered out of my system for a long time now, but you still make you way onto my screen because your emails are piggybacked on the messages of other List members. Regards and Regrets to the List, John Gwilliam = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
