Re: [meteorite-list] San Juan Capistrano
I don't know your brother, and I don't recall whatever conversation you're referring to. I'm not even upset, just amused and enjoying myself a bit by yanking your chain. You were snide with me for no apparent reason ( Please don't try to educate me about hunting for meteorites.), so a bit of nose-tweaking was in order. Now, back I go to my place at the oars... Cheers, Marc On 6/8/11 12:26 AM, Jason Utas wrote: Hello Marc, No. We tracked it down and never spent a single minute in the field actually looking for anything because it didn't seem worthwhile. I stand by what I said. Since there are no large residential developments on the valley floor (I think?), I assume that you're talking about one of the plots on either side of the valley. There's plenty more land where that came from, and the differences in distance from the fall-site are negligible, if they exist at all. And you're still perfectly entitled to your opinion and to poke around the local scrub It seems like we've each approached the issue from different perspectives; you primarily as a hunter looking to track down more of it, whereas my father took much more of a historical approach, trying to track down the exact fall location and main mass of the stone. But we are still hunters, and, having found the site and done some research, we decided that it was a lost cause. That was our conclusion, plain and simple. This isn't some petty territorial crap -- at least not on my end. We wiped our hands of the fall once we visited the site. If you go and find another stone, bully to you. I can only assume that you're being so unpleasant because of the ridiculous political argument you had with my brother on my facebook...at least several months ago. He was poking fun; you should try to get over it. I didn't even remember it until I put two and two together just now while trying to find an explanation for your unwarranted nasty comment. http://xkcd.com/386/ Seriously.. Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] San Juan Capistrano
I was wondering why you were arguing with me on this, but now I think I understand. You and your dad spent time hunting there so there's a sense of ownership at play. You're arguing for show, and you don't really need my participation for that. Before I bid this thread adieu, let me restore the original point of my post. The 172 acres nearest to the site of the fall is going under the bulldozer. It's a good site to search if permission can be obtained, especially once some brush is removed and hopefully it won't be extensively paved. Let me tell you something about meteorite hunting, though - you've got a case where a single stone was found, and hunting the land closest to that is a better option than searching miles away from the site. Best of luck to youu, Marc Sent from my iPad On Jun 5, 2011, at 11:31 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Marc, Jim, All, SJC fell in a trailer park next to I-5, where the occupants were probably used to loud rumbling noises and didn't pay it much mind. And the rolling grassy hills are exactly what is under development - 172 acres of it. Peter, my father, has thoroughly researched the fall. Jack Scurlock (the man whose mobile home was hit) likely would never have noticed or reported the meteorite on his own. His neighbor, George Stinchcombe, heard a loud noise in the night (presumably, the meteorite striking Scurlock's awning), and made a point of mentioning it to his neighbor the next morning. The pair of them noticed the hole and the black stone on the ground. The notion that the stone might be a meteorite was suggested by Stinchcombe, so it seems that a loud noise likely led to the stone's recovery in the first place. As to whether or not the freeway could have disguised any sonic booms, I cannot say. A few days ago, when I paid the site a second visit with my father, the construction at the adjacent Costco was all I could hear. I did notice that the freeway was significantly elevated with regards to the mobile home park, limiting the amount of noise it created. I live in the middle of Los Angeles not far from a few major roads, and I do hear constant noise in the form of traffic and typical city chaos. A sonic boom would be very noticeable and out of the ordinary. I'm fully willing to admit that the fact that the fall doesn't seem to have been accompanied by sonic effects does not rule out the possibility that more than one stone fell; we seem to be arguing different points. You're saying that more than one stone may have fallen, and I'm saying that without observed sonic or visual effects, it seems unlikely that much more fell. I think we're sort of agreeing...except you think it's worthwhile to hunt there, and I'd prefer more promising pastures. There's no guarantee that there are more SJC meteorites to be found, but if guarantees are what you're looking for then you've got the wrong hobby! The area to be developed is brushland that abuts the trailer park, and if anyone does want to find more SJC then its really the only option as everything else is paved. Please don't try to educate me about hunting for meteorites. I've spent many a day without success in the field, and have also recovered my fair share of finds and falls. The mobile home park in question lies in a flat-bottomed coastal valley overlooked by housing developments, but there are thousands of acres of unprotected scrub-land that is neither fenced nor posted on either side of the valley. I understand your concern; you're losing 172 acres of hunting ground. I just fail to see why you're making a point of complaining when there are still thousands of acres within a mile of the known stone's recovery that are hunt-able. The development could be a blessing, if only the gomers in charge would give me the courtesy of returning my calls. They'll have to remove brush and disturb the soil, which would be a nice target for some metal detecting. The open land in the region is, as you note, very brushy. We opted to spend the next few days on the lake-beds instead of in SJC, because it honestly looked like a waste of time. If the fall had happened yesterday, I'd be fliering and hunting everywhere possible. Forty years after the fact, when 80% of the find-site's surroundings have been graded and resurfaced...eh. Maybe if the hills weren't covered in thick brush. If you're trying to say that you think it would be nice for the company to let you onto their land after they've removed the surface/brush, I think you've missed a few things. I've spoken at length with employees at a few consulting firms about their jobs, and safety and liability are top on their lists of concerns for employees and anyone on active sites. In order to let you anywhere near an active construction site, you would need to have paperwork filled out, all on-site employees notified, liability waivers signed, etc --
Re: [meteorite-list] San Juan Capistrano
Hello Marc, Jim, All, SJC fell in a trailer park next to I-5, where the occupants were probably used to loud rumbling noises and didn't pay it much mind. And the rolling grassy hills are exactly what is under development - 172 acres of it. Peter, my father, has thoroughly researched the fall. Jack Scurlock (the man whose mobile home was hit) likely would never have noticed or reported the meteorite on his own. His neighbor, George Stinchcombe, heard a loud noise in the night (presumably, the meteorite striking Scurlock's awning), and made a point of mentioning it to his neighbor the next morning. The pair of them noticed the hole and the black stone on the ground. The notion that the stone might be a meteorite was suggested by Stinchcombe, so it seems that a loud noise likely led to the stone's recovery in the first place. As to whether or not the freeway could have disguised any sonic booms, I cannot say. A few days ago, when I paid the site a second visit with my father, the construction at the adjacent Costco was all I could hear. I did notice that the freeway was significantly elevated with regards to the mobile home park, limiting the amount of noise it created. I live in the middle of Los Angeles not far from a few major roads, and I do hear constant noise in the form of traffic and typical city chaos. A sonic boom would be very noticeable and out of the ordinary. I'm fully willing to admit that the fact that the fall doesn't seem to have been accompanied by sonic effects does not rule out the possibility that more than one stone fell; we seem to be arguing different points. You're saying that more than one stone may have fallen, and I'm saying that without observed sonic or visual effects, it seems unlikely that much more fell. I think we're sort of agreeing...except you think it's worthwhile to hunt there, and I'd prefer more promising pastures. There's no guarantee that there are more SJC meteorites to be found, but if guarantees are what you're looking for then you've got the wrong hobby! The area to be developed is brushland that abuts the trailer park, and if anyone does want to find more SJC then its really the only option as everything else is paved. Please don't try to educate me about hunting for meteorites. I've spent many a day without success in the field, and have also recovered my fair share of finds and falls. The mobile home park in question lies in a flat-bottomed coastal valley overlooked by housing developments, but there are thousands of acres of unprotected scrub-land that is neither fenced nor posted on either side of the valley. I understand your concern; you're losing 172 acres of hunting ground. I just fail to see why you're making a point of complaining when there are still thousands of acres within a mile of the known stone's recovery that are hunt-able. The development could be a blessing, if only the gomers in charge would give me the courtesy of returning my calls. They'll have to remove brush and disturb the soil, which would be a nice target for some metal detecting. The open land in the region is, as you note, very brushy. We opted to spend the next few days on the lake-beds instead of in SJC, because it honestly looked like a waste of time. If the fall had happened yesterday, I'd be fliering and hunting everywhere possible. Forty years after the fact, when 80% of the find-site's surroundings have been graded and resurfaced...eh. Maybe if the hills weren't covered in thick brush. If you're trying to say that you think it would be nice for the company to let you onto their land after they've removed the surface/brush, I think you've missed a few things. I've spoken at length with employees at a few consulting firms about their jobs, and safety and liability are top on their lists of concerns for employees and anyone on active sites. In order to let you anywhere near an active construction site, you would need to have paperwork filled out, all on-site employees notified, liability waivers signed, etc -- it's more trouble for them than you seem to realize. Anyways; it's out there if anyone is interested. My own Plan B is to contact individual homeowners in the new development, show them some meteorites, and tell them to keep an eye out. Best of luck with that - if nothing else, some more people will have a better understanding of their place in the universe, and that's always a worthwhile endeavor. Regards, Jason On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 5:31 AM, Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jason! I just had to comment When I hunt Franconia, I always wonder what could have been found where the train track, the freeway, and the housing development are now located!! One of my larger stones was found 75 yards from the freeway pavement and it's prime hunting area! I think Ruben found a 5 pound stone in the same area. In another area, prime for hunting, some yahoo took a tractor and it looks like they plowed
Re: [meteorite-list] San Juan Capistrano
Hi Jason! I just had to comment When I hunt Franconia, I always wonder what could have been found where the train track, the freeway, and the housing development are now located!! One of my larger stones was found 75 yards from the freeway pavement and it's prime hunting area! I think Ruben found a 5 pound stone in the same area. In another area, prime for hunting, some yahoo took a tractor and it looks like they plowed an entire area upprobably covering up stuff from the construction of the freeway. I have found meteorites on both side of this plowed up area. So while the strewnfields are often huge, any development in them reduces the possibility of some good finds! It seems on this one in the list however, does not have a strewnfield. Cheers! Jim Wooddell http://desertsunburn.no-ip.org On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 8:51 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I've gotten the impression from the emails on the list that people believe that this fall consisted of two separate stones. The fall consisted of a single stone that fell without sonic effects or any real witnesses; a neighbor recalled hearing a loud noise (when the stone likely hit the awning that it penetrated), but, had it not been for the astuteness of the homeowner whose property was damaged, the fall would likely have gone unnoticed. The fragment mentioned as having been found in a gutter a month later was found in the gutter of the same awning that the main mass penetrated, and most likely broke off of the main mass when it hit the awning. It would undoubtedly be worthwhile to look for other fragments in the surrounding area, but we must put things in perspective. Since strewn-fields are almost always miles in width, let alone length, the fact that the relatively tiny development is being resurfaced seems unimportant, at least to me. The area is bordered by rolling grassy hills that are in no immediate danger of being developed. - To say nothing of the fact that the illegal night-time hunting for/of new Canyon Diablo specimens is apparently widely accepted by our collecting community. California's second witnessed fall was heralded by a witnessed, large, fragmenting fireball; there's more of that to be found, for those who have the time and are experienced backpackers... Regards, Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] San Juan Capistrano
SJC fell in a trailer park next to I-5, where the occupants were probably used to loud rumbling noises and didn't pay it much mind. And the rolling grassy hills are exactly what is under development - 172 acres of it. There's no guarantee that there are more SJC meteorites to be found, but if guarantees are what you're looking for then you've got the wrong hobby! The area to be developed is brushland that abuts the trailer park, and if anyone does want to find more SJC then its really the only option as everything else is paved. The development could be a blessing, if only the gomers in charge would give me the courtesy of returning my calls. They'll have to remove brush and disturb the soil, which would be a nice target for some metal detecting. Anyways; it's out there if anyone is interested. My own Plan B is to contact individual homeowners in the new development, show them some meteorites, and tell them to keep an eye out. Cheers, Marc On 6/1/11 8:51 PM, jason utas wrote: Hello All, I've gotten the impression from the emails on the list that people believe that this fall consisted of two separate stones. The fall consisted of a single stone that fell without sonic effects or any real witnesses; a neighbor recalled hearing a loud noise (when the stone likely hit the awning that it penetrated), but, had it not been for the astuteness of the homeowner whose property was damaged, the fall would likely have gone unnoticed. The fragment mentioned as having been found in a gutter a month later was found in the gutter of the same awning that the main mass penetrated, and most likely broke off of the main mass when it hit the awning. It would undoubtedly be worthwhile to look for other fragments in the surrounding area, but we must put things in perspective. Since strewn-fields are almost always miles in width, let alone length, the fact that the relatively tiny development is being resurfaced seems unimportant, at least to me. The area is bordered by rolling grassy hills that are in no immediate danger of being developed. - To say nothing of the fact that the illegal night-time hunting for/of new Canyon Diablo specimens is apparently widely accepted by our collecting community. California's second witnessed fall was heralded by a witnessed, large, fragmenting fireball; there's more of that to be found, for those who have the time and are experienced backpackers... Regards, Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] San Juan Capistrano (photo)
A photograph of the impact hole can be found here: http://www.thetricottetcollection.com/archive_photographs_met.html (12th photo from top) Note that this photograph is not owned by the Tricottet Collection anymore and will soon be removed of the archive. Arnaud The Tricottet Collection (Historic Minerals, Fossils Meteorites) http://www.thetricottetcollection.com/ http://www.facebook.com/TheTricottetCollection http://twitter.com/TricottetColl# Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:44:48 -0700 From: mfri...@hotmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] San Juan Capistrano SJC fell in a trailer park next to I-5, where the occupants were probably used to loud rumbling noises and didn't pay it much mind. And the rolling grassy hills are exactly what is under development - 172 acres of it. There's no guarantee that there are more SJC meteorites to be found, but if guarantees are what you're looking for then you've got the wrong hobby! The area to be developed is brushland that abuts the trailer park, and if anyone does want to find more SJC then its really the only option as everything else is paved. The development could be a blessing, if only the gomers in charge would give me the courtesy of returning my calls. They'll have to remove brush and disturb the soil, which would be a nice target for some metal detecting. Anyways; it's out there if anyone is interested. My own Plan B is to contact individual homeowners in the new development, show them some meteorites, and tell them to keep an eye out. Cheers, Marc On 6/1/11 8:51 PM, jason utas wrote: Hello All, I've gotten the impression from the emails on the list that people believe that this fall consisted of two separate stones. The fall consisted of a single stone that fell without sonic effects or any real witnesses; a neighbor recalled hearing a loud noise (when the stone likely hit the awning that it penetrated), but, had it not been for the astuteness of the homeowner whose property was damaged, the fall would likely have gone unnoticed. The fragment mentioned as having been found in a gutter a month later was found in the gutter of the same awning that the main mass penetrated, and most likely broke off of the main mass when it hit the awning. It would undoubtedly be worthwhile to look for other fragments in the surrounding area, but we must put things in perspective. Since strewn-fields are almost always miles in width, let alone length, the fact that the relatively tiny development is being resurfaced seems unimportant, at least to me. The area is bordered by rolling grassy hills that are in no immediate danger of being developed. - To say nothing of the fact that the illegal night-time hunting for/of new Canyon Diablo specimens is apparently widely accepted by our collecting community. California's second witnessed fall was heralded by a witnessed, large, fragmenting fireball; there's more of that to be found, for those who have the time and are experienced backpackers... Regards, Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] San Juan Capistrano
Hello All, I've gotten the impression from the emails on the list that people believe that this fall consisted of two separate stones. The fall consisted of a single stone that fell without sonic effects or any real witnesses; a neighbor recalled hearing a loud noise (when the stone likely hit the awning that it penetrated), but, had it not been for the astuteness of the homeowner whose property was damaged, the fall would likely have gone unnoticed. The fragment mentioned as having been found in a gutter a month later was found in the gutter of the same awning that the main mass penetrated, and most likely broke off of the main mass when it hit the awning. It would undoubtedly be worthwhile to look for other fragments in the surrounding area, but we must put things in perspective. Since strewn-fields are almost always miles in width, let alone length, the fact that the relatively tiny development is being resurfaced seems unimportant, at least to me. The area is bordered by rolling grassy hills that are in no immediate danger of being developed. - To say nothing of the fact that the illegal night-time hunting for/of new Canyon Diablo specimens is apparently widely accepted by our collecting community. California's second witnessed fall was heralded by a witnessed, large, fragmenting fireball; there's more of that to be found, for those who have the time and are experienced backpackers... Regards, Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
