Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list]

Thanks to all who conributed to the discussion with insightful comments.

Of course we will answer, but a mail to the list is not the appropriate 
place. We will write a paper which will be peer reviewed giving more 
informations than what can be written in an abstract.


Albert


Le 13/07/2023 à 17:23, ALAN RUBIN via Meteorite-list a écrit :

I hadn't heard that a crystallization age has been determined, but if
it turns out to be close to 4.5 Ga, then it is even less likely to be
from Earth.

On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 8:21 AM Carl Agee  wrote:

I classified something similar but not exactly the same recently. Also plotting 
in the basaltic andesite field and near the TFL.
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+15201=names=contains=50=ge==All=name=All=All0=Normal%20table=78425
I definitely would not go out on a limb and say it is an Earth meteorite. It is 
just one (remote?) possibility for the origin. There are several types of 
meteorites that plot on or near the TFL, but that does not mean they are from 
Earth. There is a growing number of ungrouped achondrites that indicate 
significant basaltic to andesitic volcanism on early solar system bodies.  A 
crystallization age of NWA 13188 would be important to have to help prove it is 
from Earth -- I haven't seen the 2023 Goldschmidt abstract (only the 2022 
MetSoc abstract). Has an age been determined yet?
Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
University of New Mexico

Shipping Address:
11 Atole Way
Placitas, NM 87043

(505) 750-7172
(505) 573-5131
Email: cb.a...@gmail.com





On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 5:57 PM ALAN RUBIN via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

   [EXTERNAL]

I discussed the possibility of terrestrial meteorites in Rubin (2015),
Icarus 257, 221-229. Neglecting the effects of the Earth's atmosphere,
it would take five times as much energy to launch a basaltic rock off
the Earth as it would to launch the same mass rock off Mars. Except
for Black Beauty, essentially every shergottite has been severely
shocked during launch off Mars, transforming the crystalline
plagioclase into maskelynite. (A few shergottites with no maskelynite
were shocked-heated even more strongly.) A terrestrial basalt launched
off Earth would be heavily shocked or completely impact melted. This
does not seem to be the case for NWA 13188. I don't think it is
terrestrial.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 4:36 PM Mark Hammergren via Meteorite-list
 wrote:

Thirty years ago, my thesis advisor, Don Brownlee, and I talked about potential 
terrestrial meteorites and how their "asteroids" might be identified among the 
population of near-Earth objects. Unfortunately for me at the time, we decided that any 
strong identification would rely on details of silicate chemistry that are tough to 
measure through ground-based remote sensing. But we were certain that such bodies must 
exist.

On the same subject, the moon will be a great place to search for terrestrial 
meteorites, and may prove to be the best place to investigate the conditions of 
early Earth. Heck, we might even find fossils.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 12:27 PM Bob King via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

Mike,

Go to 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361365963_Northwest_Africa_13188_A_meteorite_from_the_Earth
At the top click on the blue bar that says download full text pdf. I just did 
it and no fee is required.

Bob

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 9:12 AM Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

Unfortunately paywall


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. Here 
is a link



https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/



Albert JAMBON

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Alan Rubin
Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
Department of Earth, Planetary, and Space Sciences
University of California
3845 Slichter Hall
603 Charles Young Dr. E
Los Angeles, CA  90095-1567
USA

office phone: 310-825-3202
fax: 310-206-3051
e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu
website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[ALAN RUBIN via Meteorite-list]

I hadn't heard that a crystallization age has been determined, but if
it turns out to be close to 4.5 Ga, then it is even less likely to be
from Earth.

On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 8:21 AM Carl Agee  wrote:
>
> I classified something similar but not exactly the same recently. Also 
> plotting in the basaltic andesite field and near the TFL.
> https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+15201=names=contains=50=ge==All=name=All=All0=Normal%20table=78425
> I definitely would not go out on a limb and say it is an Earth meteorite. It 
> is just one (remote?) possibility for the origin. There are several types of 
> meteorites that plot on or near the TFL, but that does not mean they are from 
> Earth. There is a growing number of ungrouped achondrites that indicate 
> significant basaltic to andesitic volcanism on early solar system bodies.  A 
> crystallization age of NWA 13188 would be important to have to help prove it 
> is from Earth -- I haven't seen the 2023 Goldschmidt abstract (only the 2022 
> MetSoc abstract). Has an age been determined yet?
> Carl
> *
> Carl B. Agee
> Director, Institute of Meteoritics
> Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
> University of New Mexico
>
> Shipping Address:
> 11 Atole Way
> Placitas, NM 87043
>
> (505) 750-7172
> (505) 573-5131
> Email: cb.a...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 5:57 PM ALAN RUBIN via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
>>
>>   [EXTERNAL]
>>
>> I discussed the possibility of terrestrial meteorites in Rubin (2015),
>> Icarus 257, 221-229. Neglecting the effects of the Earth's atmosphere,
>> it would take five times as much energy to launch a basaltic rock off
>> the Earth as it would to launch the same mass rock off Mars. Except
>> for Black Beauty, essentially every shergottite has been severely
>> shocked during launch off Mars, transforming the crystalline
>> plagioclase into maskelynite. (A few shergottites with no maskelynite
>> were shocked-heated even more strongly.) A terrestrial basalt launched
>> off Earth would be heavily shocked or completely impact melted. This
>> does not seem to be the case for NWA 13188. I don't think it is
>> terrestrial.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 4:36 PM Mark Hammergren via Meteorite-list
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Thirty years ago, my thesis advisor, Don Brownlee, and I talked about 
>> > potential terrestrial meteorites and how their "asteroids" might be 
>> > identified among the population of near-Earth objects. Unfortunately for 
>> > me at the time, we decided that any strong identification would rely on 
>> > details of silicate chemistry that are tough to measure through 
>> > ground-based remote sensing. But we were certain that such bodies must 
>> > exist.
>> >
>> > On the same subject, the moon will be a great place to search for 
>> > terrestrial meteorites, and may prove to be the best place to investigate 
>> > the conditions of early Earth. Heck, we might even find fossils.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 12:27 PM Bob King via Meteorite-list 
>> >  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Mike,
>> >>
>> >> Go to 
>> >> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361365963_Northwest_Africa_13188_A_meteorite_from_the_Earth
>> >> At the top click on the blue bar that says download full text pdf. I just 
>> >> did it and no fee is required.
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 9:12 AM Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Unfortunately paywall
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this 
>> >>> week. Here is a link
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Albert JAMBON
>> >>>
>> >>> __
>> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>
>> >>> __
>> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>
>> >> __
>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> >> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>> > __
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> > https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alan Rubin
>> Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
>> Department of Earth, Planetary, and Space Sciences
>> University of California
>> 3845 Slichter Hall
>> 603 Charles Young Dr. E
>> Los Angeles, CA  90095-1567
>> USA
>>
>> office phone: 

Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[CARL ESPARZA via Meteorite-list]

Alan, With all due respect are you then saying you have doubts about "black 
Beauty" as well? And what are your thought on the Moon being created by an 
impact with earth? Would that not have caused quite a shock to moon rocks as 
well? Just curious. Thanks Carl

> On 07/12/2023 7:56 PM EDT ALAN RUBIN via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
>  
> I discussed the possibility of terrestrial meteorites in Rubin (2015),
> Icarus 257, 221-229. Neglecting the effects of the Earth's atmosphere,
> it would take five times as much energy to launch a basaltic rock off
> the Earth as it would to launch the same mass rock off Mars. Except
> for Black Beauty, essentially every shergottite has been severely
> shocked during launch off Mars, transforming the crystalline
> plagioclase into maskelynite. (A few shergottites with no maskelynite
> were shocked-heated even more strongly.) A terrestrial basalt launched
> off Earth would be heavily shocked or completely impact melted. This
> does not seem to be the case for NWA 13188. I don't think it is
> terrestrial.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 4:36 PM Mark Hammergren via Meteorite-list
>  wrote:
> >
> > Thirty years ago, my thesis advisor, Don Brownlee, and I talked about 
> > potential terrestrial meteorites and how their "asteroids" might be 
> > identified among the population of near-Earth objects. Unfortunately for me 
> > at the time, we decided that any strong identification would rely on 
> > details of silicate chemistry that are tough to measure through 
> > ground-based remote sensing. But we were certain that such bodies must 
> > exist.
> >
> > On the same subject, the moon will be a great place to search for 
> > terrestrial meteorites, and may prove to be the best place to investigate 
> > the conditions of early Earth. Heck, we might even find fossils.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 12:27 PM Bob King via Meteorite-list 
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> Go to 
> >> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361365963_Northwest_Africa_13188_A_meteorite_from_the_Earth
> >> At the top click on the blue bar that says download full text pdf. I just 
> >> did it and no fee is required.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 9:12 AM Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Unfortunately paywall
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. 
> >>> Here is a link
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Albert JAMBON
> >>>
> >>> __
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>
> >>> __
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >> __
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alan Rubin
> Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
> Department of Earth, Planetary, and Space Sciences
> University of California
> 3845 Slichter Hall
> 603 Charles Young Dr. E
> Los Angeles, CA  90095-1567
> USA
> 
> office phone: 310-825-3202
> fax: 310-206-3051
> e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu
> website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html
> __
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Love  Life
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Excellent point, Alan. This is also the reason we should not expect to find 
Venusian meteorites on our planet. It’s not so much the dynamics of material 
transfer to Earth from the deeper solar gravity well of Venus – it’s the 
absurdly thick atmosphere those impactites would have to pass through to go 
into a heliocentric, earth-crossing orbit.  --Rob

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: ALAN RUBIN via Meteorite-list
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2023 4:57 PM
To: Mark Hammergren
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Michael Farmer
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

I discussed the possibility of terrestrial meteorites in Rubin (2015),
Icarus 257, 221-229. Neglecting the effects of the Earth's atmosphere,
it would take five times as much energy to launch a basaltic rock off
the Earth as it would to launch the same mass rock off Mars. Except
for Black Beauty, essentially every shergottite has been severely
shocked during launch off Mars, transforming the crystalline
plagioclase into maskelynite. (A few shergottites with no maskelynite
were shocked-heated even more strongly.) A terrestrial basalt launched
off Earth would be heavily shocked or completely impact melted. This
does not seem to be the case for NWA 13188. I don't think it is
terrestrial.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 4:36 PM Mark Hammergren via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>
> Thirty years ago, my thesis advisor, Don Brownlee, and I talked about 
> potential terrestrial meteorites and how their "asteroids" might be 
> identified among the population of near-Earth objects. Unfortunately for me 
> at the time, we decided that any strong identification would rely on details 
> of silicate chemistry that are tough to measure through ground-based remote 
> sensing. But we were certain that such bodies must exist.
>
> On the same subject, the moon will be a great place to search for terrestrial 
> meteorites, and may prove to be the best place to investigate the conditions 
> of early Earth. Heck, we might even find fossils.
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 12:27 PM Bob King via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Go to 
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361365963_Northwest_Africa_13188_A_meteorite_from_the_Earth
>> At the top click on the blue bar that says download full text pdf. I just 
>> did it and no fee is required.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 9:12 AM Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Unfortunately paywall
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. 
>>> Here is a link
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Albert JAMBON
>>>
>>> __
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> __
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> __
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
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>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> __
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-- 
Alan Rubin
Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
Department of Earth, Planetary, and Space Sciences
University of California
3845 Slichter Hall
603 Charles Young Dr. E
Los Angeles, CA  90095-1567
USA

office phone: 310-825-3202
fax: 310-206-3051
e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu
website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[ALAN RUBIN via Meteorite-list]

I discussed the possibility of terrestrial meteorites in Rubin (2015),
Icarus 257, 221-229. Neglecting the effects of the Earth's atmosphere,
it would take five times as much energy to launch a basaltic rock off
the Earth as it would to launch the same mass rock off Mars. Except
for Black Beauty, essentially every shergottite has been severely
shocked during launch off Mars, transforming the crystalline
plagioclase into maskelynite. (A few shergottites with no maskelynite
were shocked-heated even more strongly.) A terrestrial basalt launched
off Earth would be heavily shocked or completely impact melted. This
does not seem to be the case for NWA 13188. I don't think it is
terrestrial.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 4:36 PM Mark Hammergren via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>
> Thirty years ago, my thesis advisor, Don Brownlee, and I talked about 
> potential terrestrial meteorites and how their "asteroids" might be 
> identified among the population of near-Earth objects. Unfortunately for me 
> at the time, we decided that any strong identification would rely on details 
> of silicate chemistry that are tough to measure through ground-based remote 
> sensing. But we were certain that such bodies must exist.
>
> On the same subject, the moon will be a great place to search for terrestrial 
> meteorites, and may prove to be the best place to investigate the conditions 
> of early Earth. Heck, we might even find fossils.
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 12:27 PM Bob King via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Go to 
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361365963_Northwest_Africa_13188_A_meteorite_from_the_Earth
>> At the top click on the blue bar that says download full text pdf. I just 
>> did it and no fee is required.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 9:12 AM Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Unfortunately paywall
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. 
>>> Here is a link
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Albert JAMBON
>>>
>>> __
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> __
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> __
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>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> __
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-- 
Alan Rubin
Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
Department of Earth, Planetary, and Space Sciences
University of California
3845 Slichter Hall
603 Charles Young Dr. E
Los Angeles, CA  90095-1567
USA

office phone: 310-825-3202
fax: 310-206-3051
e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu
website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Mark Hammergren via Meteorite-list]

Thirty years ago, my thesis advisor, Don Brownlee, and I talked about
potential terrestrial meteorites and how their "asteroids" might be
identified among the population of near-Earth objects. Unfortunately for me
at the time, we decided that any strong identification would rely on
details of silicate chemistry that are tough to measure through
ground-based remote sensing. But we were certain that such bodies must
exist.

On the same subject, the moon will be a great place to search for
terrestrial meteorites, and may prove to be the best place to investigate
the conditions of early Earth. Heck, we might even find fossils.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 12:27 PM Bob King via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Go to
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361365963_Northwest_Africa_13188_A_meteorite_from_the_Earth
> At the top click on the blue bar that says download full text pdf. I just
> did it and no fee is required.
>
> Bob
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 9:12 AM Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately paywall
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list <
>> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>>
>> There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week.
>> Here is a link
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
>>
>>
>>
>> Albert JAMBON
>>
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>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> __
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>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[fujmon--- via Meteorite-list]

Albert Jambon classified NWA 5363 which is paired to NWA 5400, both of which 
plot on the TFL, leading many to speculate an earth origin.

Here is a short article about the meteorite:
https://meteoritegallery.com/nwa-5363-ungr-achondrite/


Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites
105 Puhili Pl, Hilo, HI  96720
(808) 640-9161
http://www.ebay.com/sch/fujmon/m.html

> On Jul 12, 2023, at 12:39 PM, mlblood--- via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> Didn’t the Hupe Brothers offer an Earth origine meteorite some years back?
> Michael Blood
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On July 12, 2023 at 7:21 AM drtanuki via Meteorite-list 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2022/pdf/6294.pdf
>> 
>> NORTHWEST AFRICA 13188: A METEORITE FROM THE EARTH? V. Debaille1 , J. 
>> Gattacceca2 , J. Roland1,3, R. Braucher2 , B. Devouard2 , I. Leya4 , A. 
>> Jambon5 , H. Pourkhorsandi1 , S. Goderis3 1Laboratoire G-Time, Université 
>> Libre de Bruxelles, Brussels, Belgium (vinciane.debai...@ulb.be); 2CEREGE, 
>> Université Aix-Marseilles, France; 3AMGC, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, 
>> Brussels, Belgium; 4Space and Planetary Science, Universität Bern, Bern, 
>> Switzerland; 5Sorbonne Université, Paris, France Meteorites are usually 
>> first identified visually by their fusion crust before more detailed 
>> analyses (mineralogical observations, elemental concentrations, isotope 
>> compositions, …) enable to propely assign them to a specific meteorite 
>> group. Based on the observation of a fusion crust, texture and mineralogy, 
>> NWA 13188 was classified as an ungrouped achondrite [1]. This single stone 
>> was purchased by AJ from a Moroccan meteorite dealer at Ste Marie aux Mines 
>> Mineral Show in June 2018. It is an igneous rock with overall subophitic 
>> texture and typical silicate grain size of 350 µm. The mineralogy is 
>> dominated by plagioclase (49 vol%) and pyroxene (26 vol%), as well as 
>> fine-grained mesosta-sis of plagioclase, pyroxene (18 vol% of the 
>> mesostasis), accessory FeTi oxides and glass. Vesicles with typical size 250 
>> µm represent 8 vol% of the rock. No metal is observed. ...
>> 
>> Northwest Africa 13188
>> https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=71664
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 11:11:10 PM GMT+9, Michael Farmer via 
>> Meteorite-list  wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Unfortunately paywall
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
>>  wrote:
>>> There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. 
>>> Here is a link
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Albert JAMBON
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 
>> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[mlblood--- via Meteorite-list]

Didn’t the Hupe Brothers offer an Earth origine meteorite some years back?
Michael Blood




> On July 12, 2023 at 7:21 AM drtanuki via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2022/pdf/6294.pdf
> 
> NORTHWEST AFRICA 13188: A METEORITE FROM THE EARTH? V. Debaille1 , J. 
> Gattacceca2 , J. Roland1,3, R. Braucher2 , B. Devouard2 , I. Leya4 , A. 
> Jambon5 , H. Pourkhorsandi1 , S. Goderis3 1Laboratoire G-Time, Université 
> Libre de Bruxelles, Brussels, Belgium (vinciane.debai...@ulb.be); 2CEREGE, 
> Université Aix-Marseilles, France; 3AMGC, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, 
> Brussels, Belgium; 4Space and Planetary Science, Universität Bern, Bern, 
> Switzerland; 5Sorbonne Université, Paris, France Meteorites are usually first 
> identified visually by their fusion crust before more detailed analyses 
> (mineralogical observations, elemental concentrations, isotope compositions, 
> …) enable to propely assign them to a specific meteorite group. Based on the 
> observation of a fusion crust, texture and mineralogy, NWA 13188 was 
> classified as an ungrouped achondrite [1]. This single stone was purchased by 
> AJ from a Moroccan meteorite dealer at Ste Marie aux Mines Mineral Show in 
> June 2018. It is an igneous rock with overall subophitic texture and typical 
> silicate grain size of 350 µm. The mineralogy is dominated by plagioclase (49 
> vol%) and pyroxene (26 vol%), as well as fine-grained mesosta-sis of 
> plagioclase, pyroxene (18 vol% of the mesostasis), accessory FeTi oxides and 
> glass. Vesicles with typical size 250 µm represent 8 vol% of the rock. No 
> metal is observed. ...
> 
> Northwest Africa 13188
> https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=71664
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 11:11:10 PM GMT+9, Michael Farmer via 
> Meteorite-list  wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately paywall
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> > There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. 
> > Here is a link
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Albert JAMBON
> > 
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> 
> 
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Ryan Ogliore via Meteorite-list]

Meteorite left Earth then landed back down after round trip to space

Most of the meteorites found on Earth come from asteroids, but a few come
from other bodies like Mars and the moon. Now, researchers say they have
discovered a new kind - a rock originally from Earth that went to space
then came back

By Alex Wilkins 

11 July 2023





https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/>

The meteorite NWA 13188 seems to have travelled to space and back

Albert Jambon

A meteorite found in the Sahara desert in Morocco may have originated on
Earth, before being blasted into space and returning from orbit thousands
of years later. If confirmed, this boomerang space rock would be the first
of its kind we know about.

Almost all the meteorites we have found come from asteroids, but a tiny
fraction are from planetary bodies, such as Mars

and
the moon. These come from violent impacts that launch debris into space
before later falling to Earth. Astronomers have shown that debris from
similar impacts on Earth may also have fallen back to its home planet, but
we have yet to find a compelling sample.

Now, Jérôme Gattacceca
 at the French
National Centre for Scientific Research and his colleagues think they may
have found a 600-gram meteorite from Earth. The rock, called NWA 13188, has
the same chemical make-up as volcanic rock from our planet. It also has a
thin layer of melted crust consistent with an impact and contains isotopes
of elements that only form when an object has been bombarded with cosmic
rays in space.

“It’s a meteorite from the Earth that has spent time in space, between 2000
and a few tens of thousands of years,” Gattacceca told the Goldschmidt

Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Francis Graham via Meteorite-list]

    There is also the possibility that there are,orbiting the Sun, hundreds of 
rocks from the Chicxulub Impact 65 million yearsago that caused an ecological 
catastrophe that killed all the large dinosaurs.This may not one of them, alas, 
but the rocks are out there. It would be sure interestingto have some to study.
Francis Graham


On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 01:05:45 AM PDT, Albert Jambon via 
Meteorite-list  wrote:  
 
 There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. Here 
is a link



https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/



Albert JAMBON

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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Bob King via Meteorite-list]

Mike,

Go to
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361365963_Northwest_Africa_13188_A_meteorite_from_the_Earth
At the top click on the blue bar that says download full text pdf. I just
did it and no fee is required.

Bob

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 9:12 AM Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately paywall
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
>
> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>
> There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week.
> Here is a link
>
>
>
>
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
>
>
>
> Albert JAMBON
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
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> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Michael Doran via Meteorite-list]

This (unpaywalled) conference abstract is about the same meteorite:
NORTHWEST AFRICA 13188: A METEORITE FROM THE EARTH?
85th Annual Meeting of The Meteoritical Society 2022
https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2022/pdf/6294.pdf

-- Michael
Michael Doran 

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 09:11:12 AM CDT, Michael Farmer via 
Meteorite-list  wrote:  
 
 Unfortunately paywall


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. Here 
is a link



https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/



Albert JAMBON

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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[drtanuki via Meteorite-list]

https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2022/pdf/6294.pdf

NORTHWEST AFRICA 13188: A METEORITE FROM THE EARTH? V. Debaille1 , J. 
Gattacceca2 , J. Roland1,3, R. Braucher2 , B. Devouard2 , I. Leya4 , A. Jambon5 
, H. Pourkhorsandi1 , S. Goderis3 1Laboratoire G-Time, Université Libre de 
Bruxelles, Brussels, Belgium (vinciane.debai...@ulb.be); 2CEREGE, Université 
Aix-Marseilles, France; 3AMGC, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Brussels, Belgium; 
4Space and Planetary Science, Universität Bern, Bern, Switzerland; 5Sorbonne 
Université, Paris, France Meteorites are usually first identified visually by 
their fusion crust before more detailed analyses (mineralogical observations, 
elemental concentrations, isotope compositions, …) enable to propely assign 
them to a specific meteorite group. Based on the observation of a fusion crust, 
texture and mineralogy, NWA 13188 was classified as an ungrouped achondrite 
[1]. This single stone was purchased by AJ from a Moroccan meteorite dealer at 
Ste Marie aux Mines Mineral Show in June 2018. It is an igneous rock with 
overall subophitic texture and typical silicate grain size of 350 µm. The 
mineralogy is dominated by plagioclase (49 vol%) and pyroxene (26 vol%), as 
well as fine-grained mesosta-sis of plagioclase, pyroxene (18 vol% of the 
mesostasis), accessory FeTi oxides and glass. Vesicles with typical size 250 µm 
represent 8 vol% of the rock. No metal is observed. ...

Northwest Africa 13188
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=71664








On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 11:11:10 PM GMT+9, Michael Farmer via 
Meteorite-list  wrote: 





Unfortunately paywall


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:
> There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. 
> Here is a link
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
> 
> 
> 
> Albert JAMBON
> 
> __
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> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list]

Unfortunately paywall


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. Here 
is a link



https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/



Albert JAMBON

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[meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list]

There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. Here 
is a link



https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/



Albert JAMBON

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[meteorite-list] Terrestrial Meteorite Hunting on the Moon

[Paul]

Dear Friends,

In the most recent issue of Astrobiology, there is an article advocating
the collecting of terrestrial meteorites from the Moon. They suggest that
there are pieces of the ancient Earth, blasted into space from the 
surface of early Earth  to be found on the Moon as terrestrial 
meteorites. They argue that an unique record of early Earth might
be found on the Moon in the form of terrestrial meteorites.

The paper is;

Ian A. Crawford, Emily C. Baldwin, Emma A. Taylor, Jeremy A. 
Bailey, Kostas Tsembelis, 2008, On the Survivability and Detectability 
of Terrestrial Meteorites on the Moon. Astrobiology. vol. 8, no. 2, 
pp. 242-252. doi:10.1089/ast.2007.0215.

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ast.2007.0215

Best Regards,

Paul H.



  

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