Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

2016-07-20 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list 
Rob and all,

>For instance, even at solar system escape velocity 
>at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec)

What is...The ultimate question of life and the answer to everything?

>Extra-credit question for the mathematically 
>inclined:  at what velocity relative to the earth
>would a meteoroid have to travel to have its
>clock stay in sync with a clock at the earth's
>surface?  :-) 

Given the figure you mention of 0.6 ppb (52 microseconds per day faster) this 
question asks be nullified, maybe 10 km/s velocity relative to earth?

A good relative velocity to hunt a flock of wild space geese coming to roost on 
Earth, wearing accurate Rolexes ...  But should the meteoroid transition to our 
gravity, the on-board Rolex might abandon its precision for a few spectacular 
minutes, and have an "error" of a couple of nanoseconds ;-)

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 18, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

It's not a bad idea, Pete, but unfortunately the time dilation is  really 
minimal unless you get up
to a substantial fraction of the speed of light. For instance, even at solar 
system escape velocity
at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec), a meteoroid's clock would be 
running at about
10 parts per billion slower than that of a stationary rock. (Additional note: 
due to general relativity,
a clock on a meteoroid would be running about 0.6 parts per billion *faster* 
than a clock at the
earth's surface, but that is more than made up for by the time dilation due to 
special relativity.)

Extra-credit question for the mathematically inclined:  at what velocity 
relative to the earth
would a meteoroid have to travel to have its clock stay in sync with a clock at 
the earth's
surface?  :-)  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On 
Behalf Of Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 3:12 PM
To: The List
Subject: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

greetings to all,
my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2.
Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and that as 
you approach the speed of light, things get older slower.
So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a subtantual 
percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into consideration when 
placing an age on the meteorite?
Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!!
Pete Shugar
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Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

2016-07-20 Thread James Beauchamp via Meteorite-list 
Correction, that would be YOUNGER.  Sorry.  Early morning.

 

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 9:24 AM, James Beauchamp via Meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
 

 I think this is a pretty fun exercise for people to understand basic points of 
relativity in general (pardon the pun), and how Lorenz transformations work.
The objects floating around exist in a different 4 dimensional reference frame 
than we do.  Similar to Captain Scott Kelly's recent year in space and his 
description of age.  Note that his year in space at 28,000 km/sec resulted in 
about 8 milliseconds of time dilation.  apply that over 4 billion years.
(8 mS / year) X 4 billion years = 32,000,000 seconds =  hours = 370 days... 
 

If Captain Kelly had remained in orbit for 4 billion years, he would be about 1 
year older than his sibling.


 

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 12:11 AM, Count Deiro via Meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
 

 #yiv2324321851 body{font-family:Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, 
sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:#ff;color:black;} Hi all,

It's true meteors travel at an insignificant percentage of the speed of light. 
Speeds up to 260,000 kilometers an hour are reached by meteors entering the 
earth's atmosphere versus light's maximum of 1079252848.8 kilometers an hour in 
a perfect vacuum.

Outer space is very, very cold and is an imperfect vacuum. If it has any mass, 
the speed of light can be much slower. In an extreme situation, perhaps a 
velocity where the comparative speed of the meteor would be in the 5% range. 
Which would have a measurable affect on its age as a meteorite.

I mention this, because published papers establish that the colder the mass 
through which light is being perceived, the slower its speed. For instance, the 
speed of light through very cold, laser-bathed, sodium atoms, can be only 50 
meters a second!

Count Deiro

-Original Message-
>From: John Lutzon via Meteorite-list 
>Sent: Jul 18, 2016 4:00 PM
>To: Michael Mulgrew , pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com
>Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites
>
>
>Pete, Michael & Rob,
>
>Au contraire smart guys
>Every morning, PAUL sends us a meteorite At the speed of light---
>
>(:>)
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Michael Mulgrew via Meteorite-list" 
>To: "Pete Shugar" 
>Cc: "The List" 
>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 6:31 PM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites
>
>
>No meteoroid body travels anywhere near "a subtantual [sic] percentage
>of the speed of light". Although their relative ages will be
>different based on Einstein's theory, their practical age is
>realistically unaffected I would think.
>
>Michael in so. Cal.
>
>On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list
> wrote:
>> greetings to all,
>> my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2.
>> Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and
>> that as you approach the speed of light, things get older slower.
>> So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a
>> subtantual percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into
>> consideration when placing an age on the meteorite?
>> Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!!
>> Pete Shugar
>> __
>>
>> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
>> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>__
>
>Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
>Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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>
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>
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Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

2016-07-19 Thread James Beauchamp via Meteorite-list 
I think this is a pretty fun exercise for people to understand basic points of 
relativity in general (pardon the pun), and how Lorenz transformations work.
The objects floating around exist in a different 4 dimensional reference frame 
than we do.  Similar to Captain Scott Kelly's recent year in space and his 
description of age.  Note that his year in space at 28,000 km/sec resulted in 
about 8 milliseconds of time dilation.  apply that over 4 billion years.
(8 mS / year) X 4 billion years = 32,000,000 seconds =  hours = 370 days... 
 

If Captain Kelly had remained in orbit for 4 billion years, he would be about 1 
year older than his sibling.


 

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 12:11 AM, Count Deiro via Meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
 

 #yiv6702994726 body{font-family:Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, 
sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:#ff;color:black;} Hi all,

It's true meteors travel at an insignificant percentage of the speed of light. 
Speeds up to 260,000 kilometers an hour are reached by meteors entering the 
earth's atmosphere versus light's maximum of 1079252848.8 kilometers an hour in 
a perfect vacuum.

Outer space is very, very cold and is an imperfect vacuum. If it has any mass, 
the speed of light can be much slower. In an extreme situation, perhaps a 
velocity where the comparative speed of the meteor would be in the 5% range. 
Which would have a measurable affect on its age as a meteorite.

I mention this, because published papers establish that the colder the mass 
through which light is being perceived, the slower its speed. For instance, the 
speed of light through very cold, laser-bathed, sodium atoms, can be only 50 
meters a second!

Count Deiro

-Original Message-
>From: John Lutzon via Meteorite-list 
>Sent: Jul 18, 2016 4:00 PM
>To: Michael Mulgrew , pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com
>Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites
>
>
>Pete, Michael & Rob,
>
>Au contraire smart guys
>Every morning, PAUL sends us a meteorite At the speed of light---
>
>(:>)
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Michael Mulgrew via Meteorite-list" 
>To: "Pete Shugar" 
>Cc: "The List" 
>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 6:31 PM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites
>
>
>No meteoroid body travels anywhere near "a subtantual [sic] percentage
>of the speed of light". Although their relative ages will be
>different based on Einstein's theory, their practical age is
>realistically unaffected I would think.
>
>Michael in so. Cal.
>
>On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list
> wrote:
>> greetings to all,
>> my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2.
>> Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and
>> that as you approach the speed of light, things get older slower.
>> So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a
>> subtantual percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into
>> consideration when placing an age on the meteorite?
>> Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!!
>> Pete Shugar
>> __
>>
>> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
>> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>__
>
>Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
>Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>__
>
>Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
>Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
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Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

2016-07-18 Thread Count Deiro via Meteorite-list 

Hi all,It's true meteors travel at an insignificant percentage of the speed of light. Speeds up to 260,000 kilometers an hour are reached by meteors entering the earth's atmosphere versus light's maximum of 1079252848.8 kilometers an hour in a perfect vacuum.Outer space is very, very cold and is an imperfect vacuum. If it has any mass, the speed of light can be much slower. In an extreme situation, perhaps a velocity where the comparative speed of the meteor would be in the 5% range. Which would have a measurable affect on its age as a meteorite.I mention this, because published papers establish that the colder the mass through which light is being perceived, the slower its speed. For instance, the speed of light through very cold, laser-bathed, sodium atoms, can be only 50 meters a second!Count Deiro-Original Message->From: John Lutzon via Meteorite-list <METEORITE-LIST@METEORITECENTRAL.COM>>Sent: Jul 18, 2016 4:00 PM>To: Michael Mulgrew <mikest...@gmail.com>, pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com>Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites>>>Pete, Michael & Rob,>>Au contraire smart guys>Every morning, PAUL sends us a meteorite At the speed of light--->>(:>)>>>- Original Message - >From: "Michael Mulgrew via Meteorite-list" <METEORITE-LIST@METEORITECENTRAL.COM>>To: "Pete Shugar" <pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com>>Cc: "The List" <METEORITE-LIST@METEORITECENTRAL.COM>>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 6:31 PM>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites>>>No meteoroid body travels anywhere near "a subtantual [sic] percentage>of the speed of light". Although their relative ages will be>different based on Einstein's theory, their practical age is>realistically unaffected I would think.>>Michael in so. Cal.>>On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list><METEORITE-LIST@METEORITECENTRAL.COM> wrote:>> greetings to all,>> my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2.>> Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and>> that as you approach the speed of light, things get older slower.>> So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a>> subtantual percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into>> consideration when placing an age on the meteorite?>> Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!!>> Pete Shugar>> __>>>> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com>> Meteorite-list mailing list>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>__>>Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com>Meteorite-list mailing list>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>>__>>Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com>Meteorite-list mailing list>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

2016-07-18 Thread John Lutzon via Meteorite-list 

Pete, Michael & Rob,

Au contraire smart guys
Every morning, PAUL sends us a meteorite At the speed of light---

(:>)


- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Mulgrew via Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: "Pete Shugar" <pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com>
Cc: "The List" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites


No meteoroid body travels anywhere near "a subtantual [sic] percentage
of the speed of light".  Although their relative ages will be
different based on Einstein's theory, their practical age is
realistically unaffected I would think.

Michael in so. Cal.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> greetings to all,
> my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2.
> Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and
> that as you approach the speed of light, things get older slower.
> So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a
> subtantual percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into
> consideration when placing an age on the meteorite?
> Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!!
> Pete Shugar
> __
>
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

2016-07-18 Thread Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list 
It's not a bad idea, Pete, but unfortunately the time dilation is  really 
minimal unless you get up
to a substantial fraction of the speed of light. For instance, even at solar 
system escape velocity
at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec), a meteoroid's clock would be 
running at about
10 parts per billion slower than that of a stationary rock. (Additional note: 
due to general relativity,
a clock on a meteoroid would be running about 0.6 parts per billion *faster* 
than a clock at the
earth's surface, but that is more than made up for by the time dilation due to 
special relativity.)

Extra-credit question for the mathematically inclined:  at what velocity 
relative to the earth
would a meteoroid have to travel to have its clock stay in sync with a clock at 
the earth's
surface?  :-)  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On 
Behalf Of Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 3:12 PM
To: The List
Subject: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

greetings to all,
my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2.
Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and that as 
you approach the speed of light, things get older slower.
So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a subtantual 
percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into consideration when 
placing an age on the meteorite?
Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!!
Pete Shugar
__

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Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

2016-07-18 Thread Michael Mulgrew via Meteorite-list 
No meteoroid body travels anywhere near "a subtantual [sic] percentage
of the speed of light".  Although their relative ages will be
different based on Einstein's theory, their practical age is
realistically unaffected I would think.

Michael in so. Cal.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
> greetings to all,
> my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2.
> Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and
> that as you approach the speed of light, things get older slower.
> So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a
> subtantual percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into
> consideration when placing an age on the meteorite?
> Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!!
> Pete Shugar
> __
>
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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[meteorite-list] age of meteorites

2016-07-18 Thread Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list 
greetings to all,
my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2.
Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and
that as you approach the speed of light, things get older slower.
So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a
subtantual percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into
consideration when placing an age on the meteorite?
Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!!
Pete Shugar
__

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