RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
Maybe the IMCA could layout a standard record card, that could be voluntarily adopted? It might even add value to a specimen if it had some sort of traceable history... I would pay more for something with a history to it, I am sure others would. It's done with many other things in life. I know it's obviously not practical to trace right back to the anonymous finder, but a record of who's handled it, or what collection it originates from would be great. Most of us have specimens that where part of the historic collections, but don't even know it because the information has been lost, which is a real pity. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Jeff Kuyken [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 09:12 To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories That is certainly a great idea Bernhard. I have also now been trying to keep histories of pieces, no matter what the specimen is. When I resell a collection piece, as well as adding my own label I also include any others that may have come with the specimen when I bought it. When you think about it, what purpose is served to throw them out? Check out my May 2003 Monthly Favourite (http://www.meteoritesaustralia.com/favourite/may2003.html). Through good record keeping this very small ordinary chondrite endcut has an amazing history. It adds immensely to the interest of the piece! Cheers, Jeff Kuyken I.M.C.A. #3085 www.meteorites.com.au - Original Message - From: Bernhard Rendelius Rems To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 1:13 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Enough is Enough, Now NWA 1877 What I do (I know it isn't a cure but will certainly help sometimes to keep track of the material I own): If I buy something, I record from whom I bought it. When I sell something, I record to whom I sell and add a letter to the sold piece, asking the new owner to keep a record about source and buyer (if he resells it) as well. I did so from the first piece I bought up to today. However, I do not pass on labels. I make my own when I resell. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mark ford Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 4:38 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Enough is Enough, Now NWA 1877 Stephan said: snip ... I think, if a collector buys a slice of a high-priced meteorite, he has a right to know the exact informations about the specimen. Yeah, I agree with that one, how many of us have paid over large sums for material, only to get a slice in a plastic bag with no origin info what so ever!? What we need, is a standard meteorite record card with the history of the specimen on it, (and if the rock gets cut, the card gets copied and the new owner/info gets added to it). Certainly with Lunar and Martian stuff, it might be a good idea.. at least it could be traced almost back to the original finder/purchaser. (and it used to be called a 'LABEL' in my day.. :) Best Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
Well, yes and no. Yes, because it would add to the documentation of a certain piece. No, because if you are a seller, you do not really want to disclose your source most of the times. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peanut .. Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories That is a fantastic idea! CJ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
Benr'd, Yes I can see some instances where info would be 'commercially sensitive' fair enough, but 'bought from Morocco' would do as a start for NWA's! A lot of the time however, even basic info is just simply not passed on. This would be a way of making sure it is. Dealers could still produce their own labels in addition if they wish. I don't think a cheap NWA would be worth it, but for specimens of historic value or rare stuff, The history is so important! It saddens me when you get cut specimens from dealers who trade with the museums and institutions, the info about origin is hardly ever passed on, not through commercial interests but because it is not deemed important. For example I have many pieces which I know are ex BM, but I have no Label and no way of telling this! And I have bought many specimens in the past that are finds from the 1800's all they have on them is a sticker from the last dealer with just the name of the meteorite - That can't be good can it? It's obvious most historic stuff would have been through several Famous institutions and collectors before being sold on the open market. What a missed marketing opportunity more than anything else! Best, Mark -Original Message- From: Bernhard Rendelius Rems [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 11:52 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories Well, yes and no. Yes, because it would add to the documentation of a certain piece. No, because if you are a seller, you do not really want to disclose your source most of the times. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peanut .. Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories That is a fantastic idea! CJ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
Hi All, True story: Dealer B gets specimens from Dealer A. Notices an area ground off the surface of all the specimens. Dealer B gets more specimens from Dealer A. Again notices spot ground off on all pieces. Dealer B calls Dealer A and asks for an explanation and is told that the pieces are coming from a large institutional collection where the specimens are individually numbered. Instead of chemically dissolving off the painted specimen numbers, Dealer A simply ground them off with a bench grinder because it was much faster. Why would the numbers be removed and the collection history prior to Dealer A hidden? It was by request of the institutional collection. The institutional collection wanted to keep the fact that they were releasing specimens from the other dealers and collector in order to avoid being bombarded by trade and purchase requests. I doubt that this story is an isolated incident. For your reading enjoyment, I have addressed collection history in my Acc retion Desk articles at The Meteorite Times. Here are a couple of them: Leaving a Paper Trail http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/October/Accretion_Desk.htm Lucky Numbers: Specimen Labels as License Plates from the Past http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/November/Accretion_Desk.htm Cheers, Martin - Original Message - From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:27 am Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories Benr'd, Yes I can see some instances where info would be 'commercially sensitive' fair enough, but 'bought from Morocco' would do as a start for NWA's! A lot of the time however, even basic info is just simply not passed on. This would be a way of making sure it is. Dealers could still produce their own labels in addition if they wish. I don't think a cheapNWA would be worth it, but for specimens of historic value or rarestuff, The history is so important! It saddens me when you get cut specimens from dealers who trade with the museums and institutions, the info about origin is hardly ever passed on, not through commercial interests but because it is not deemedimportant. For example I have many pieces which I know are ex BM, but I have no Label and no way of telling this! And I have bought many specimens in the past that are finds from the 1800's all they have on them is a sticker from the last dealer with just the name of the meteorite - Thatcan't be good can it? It's obvious most historic stuff would have been through several Famousinstitutions and collectors before being sold on the open market. What a missed marketing opportunity more than anything else! Best, Mark -Original Message- From: Bernhard Rendelius Rems [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 11:52 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Historie s Well, yes and no. Yes, because it would add to the documentation of a certain piece. No, because if you are a seller, you do not really want to disclose your source most of the times. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
Great article! Yeah, Sure it happens, and it shouldn't! I don't see why institutions need to be so cagey, pretty well all institutions exchange material with dealers, it goes with the territory. And it's clear they all have their 'favorite dealers', but I am sure anyone that came to them with the right material would get let in the door. Bottom line - Any so called scientist that requests/grinds off labels to disguise important information should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves... Best, Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 13:39 To: Meteorite List Subject: Re: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories Hi All, True story: Dealer B gets specimens from Dealer A. Notices an area ground off the surface of all the specimens. Dealer B gets more specimens from Dealer A. Again notices spot ground off on all pieces. Dealer B calls Dealer A and asks for an explanation and is told that the pieces are coming from a large institutional collection where the specimens are individually numbered. Instead of chemically dissolving off the painted specimen numbers, Dealer A simply ground them off with a bench grinder because it was much faster. Why would the numbers be removed and the collection history prior to Dealer A hidden? It was by request of the institutional collection. The institutional collection wanted to keep the fact that they were releasing specimens from the other dealers and collector in order to avoid being bombarded by trade and purchase requests. I doubt that this story is an isolated incident. For your reading enjoyment, I have addressed collection history in my Acc retion Desk articles at The Meteorite Times. Here are a couple of them: Leaving a Paper Trail http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/October/Accretion_Desk.htm Lucky Numbers: Specimen Labels as License Plates from the Past http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/November/Accretion_Desk.ht m Cheers, Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
FYI: when I send out an item to a customer, I always send out a preprinted info sheet which contains, amongst tips how to store and curate your meteorites, a paragraph about the importance of keeping records of them. Here's a (free) translation of this paragraph: Please keep a catalogue of your meteorites - nothing is more annoying than not to know which piece is which, where it comes from and what the significance of the specimen is. Number your meteorites in some way (adhesive stickers - or keep them in numbered boxes/bags), so they can always be associated with their data/history. It's for your own pleasure and safety, since a meteorite without the appropriate info is worth a lot less than a properly described specimen. Apart from that, it doesn't just loose value, it is lost for science as well. This info helps in two ways: it helps my customers to appreciate what they have got, and it helps them to understand that I care for what I sell (which could, in return for the info, help to turn them into return customers). _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mark ford Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:15 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: RE: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories Great article! Yeah, Sure it happens, and it shouldn't! I don't see why institutions need to be so cagey, pretty well all institutions exchange material with dealers, it goes with the territory. And it's clear they all have their 'favorite dealers', but I am sure anyone that came to them with the right material would get let in the door. Bottom line - Any so called scientist that requests/grinds off labels to disguise important information should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves... Best, Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 13:39 To: Meteorite List Subject: Re: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories Hi All, True story: Dealer B gets specimens from Dealer A. Notices an area ground off the surface of all the specimens. Dealer B gets more specimens from Dealer A. Again notices spot ground off on all pieces. Dealer B calls Dealer A and asks for an explanation and is told that the pieces are coming from a large institutional collection where the specimens are individually numbered. Instead of chemically dissolving off the painted specimen numbers, Dealer A simply ground them off with a bench grinder because it was much faster. Why would the numbers be removed and the collection history prior to Dealer A hidden? It was by request of the institutional collection. The institutional collection wanted to keep the fact that they were releasing specimens from the other dealers and collector in order to avoid being bombarded by trade and purchase requests. I doubt that this story is an isolated incident. For your reading enjoyment, I have addressed collection history in my Acc retion Desk articles at The Meteorite Times. Here are a couple of them: Leaving a Paper Trail http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/October/Accretion_Desk.htm Lucky Numbers: Specimen Labels as License Plates from the Past http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/November/Accretion_Desk.ht m Cheers, Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
Hi, Good idea about advising new customers about record keeping, most important that. I give every specimen in my collection a unique number, this is entered into a logbook, along with basic info (name, type, weight etc). I put a label with or on each sample with It's number. The original cards that came with the sample are all kept in a file (and the number is written on the back) The idea being, that if I got kidnapped by aliens or something, someone could pick up my collection and put the appropriate cards with each specimen! (I couldn't rely on my family, they wouldn't know where to start!) Best Mark -Original Message- From: Bernhard Rendelius Rems [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 14:46 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories FYI: when I send out an item to a customer, I always send out a preprinted info sheet which contains, amongst tips how to store and curate your meteorites, a paragraph about the importance of keeping records of them. Here's a (free) translation of this paragraph: Please keep a catalogue of your meteorites - nothing is more annoying than not to know which piece is which, where it comes from and what the significance of the specimen is. Number your meteorites in some way (adhesive stickers - or keep them in numbered boxes/bags), so they can always be associated with their data/history. It's for your own pleasure and safety, since a meteorite without the appropriate info is worth a lot less than a properly described specimen. Apart from that, it doesn't just loose value, it is lost for science as well. This info helps in two ways: it helps my customers to appreciate what they have got, and it helps them to understand that I care for what I sell (which could, in return for the info, help to turn them into return customers). _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mark ford Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:15 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: RE: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories Great article! Yeah, Sure it happens, and it shouldn't! I don't see why institutions need to be so cagey, pretty well all institutions exchange material with dealers, it goes with the territory. And it's clear they all have their 'favorite dealers', but I am sure anyone that came to them with the right material would get let in the door. Bottom line - Any so called scientist that requests/grinds off labels to disguise important information should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves... Best, Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 13:39 To: Meteorite List Subject: Re: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories Hi All, True story: Dealer B gets specimens from Dealer A. Notices an area ground off the surface of all the specimens. Dealer B gets more specimens from Dealer A. Again notices spot ground off on all pieces. Dealer B calls Dealer A and asks for an explanation and is told that the pieces are coming from a large institutional collection where the specimens are individually numbered. Instead of chemically dissolving off the painted specimen numbers, Dealer A simply ground them off with a bench grinder because it was much faster. Why would the numbers be removed and the collection history prior to Dealer A hidden? It was by request of the institutional collection. The institutional collection wanted to keep the fact that they were releasing specimens from the other dealers and collector in order to avoid being bombarded by trade and purchase requests. I doubt that this story is an isolated incident. For your reading enjoyment, I have addressed collection history in my Acc retion Desk articles at The Meteorite Times. Here are a couple of them: Leaving a Paper Trail http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/October/Accretion_Desk.htm Lucky Numbers: Specimen Labels as License Plates from the Past http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/November/Accretion_Desk.ht m Cheers, Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
Pierre, Good idea, though it could be a bit labour intensive and I am not sure many people would be very keen on paying for the service every time they sold a stone. An electronic system could work in theory, and it would also be a great way of tracing/recovering stolen material. (A similar technique is already used for oil paintings). But it really only needs to be a paper record card, where each owner writes their name on it, along with any info. If an organization like the IMCA sold the blank cards (a new way of raising funds?) they could retain the right to recall cards if they were misused.. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Pierre-Marie PELE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 14:59 To: MeteoriteList Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories This is a great idea which could help keeping tracks for successive owners. But to keep a certain independance, there could be a website (with login access) where successive owners of a certain piece could register their ownership. CONCEPT - Here's a complete example (fictionous) : 1. A meteorite hunter finds an Allende individual. He wishes to sell it. 2. This meteorite hunter goes on the website, enters its login/password and creates a file (for example with the ID ALLENDE025). This ID will follow the meteorite from owner to another owner. The file is full with size, weight, presentation (individual, slice, fragment...), picture if any, ... 3. I wish to buy the Allende025 meteorite to the owner. I update the file Allende025 by changing the name of the previous owner and by replacing it with my name. Of course, the previous owner name would be kept for tracking. 4. And the same if I buy the meteorite to a 3rd owner... This database could be validated by IMCA. MY PROPOSAL - As a meteorite collector and website creator, I'm able to build such a site. That's a long work but it could be useful for anyone. I could manage this list, with the acceptance of IMCA authority (I'm an IMCA member also). COST OF WEB HOSTING --- The cost of website hosting (ASP server, 200Mb, fast server, 20Gb transfer volume a month, 5 Access databases) is US$1200 a year with domain name. Anyone wishing to be a member should pay for the service or the hosting could be paid by advertising. Let me know what you think of all this ! Pierre-Marie PELE www.meteor-center.com -- Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
And ... They would copy or fill out a new record card for each one, (if they want the benefits and better prices traceability would bring).. -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 16:09 To: mark ford Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories And what about the many collectors and dealers, who splatter down so many larger historic pieces to subgram crumbs to cash them in ebay?... - Original Message - From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:15 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories Pierre, Good idea, though it could be a bit labour intensive and I am not sure many people would be very keen on paying for the service every time they sold a stone. An electronic system could work in theory, and it would also be a great way of tracing/recovering stolen material. (A similar technique is already used for oil paintings). But it really only needs to be a paper record card, where each owner writes their name on it, along with any info. If an organization like the IMCA sold the blank cards (a new way of raising funds?) they could retain the right to recall cards if they were misused.. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Pierre-Marie PELE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 14:59 To: MeteoriteList Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories This is a great idea which could help keeping tracks for successive owners. But to keep a certain independance, there could be a website (with login access) where successive owners of a certain piece could register their ownership. CONCEPT - Here's a complete example (fictionous) : 1. A meteorite hunter finds an Allende individual. He wishes to sell it. 2. This meteorite hunter goes on the website, enters its login/password and creates a file (for example with the ID ALLENDE025). This ID will follow the meteorite from owner to another owner. The file is full with size, weight, presentation (individual, slice, fragment...), picture if any, ... 3. I wish to buy the Allende025 meteorite to the owner. I update the file Allende025 by changing the name of the previous owner and by replacing it with my name. Of course, the previous owner name would be kept for tracking. 4. And the same if I buy the meteorite to a 3rd owner... This database could be validated by IMCA. MY PROPOSAL - As a meteorite collector and website creator, I'm able to build such a site. That's a long work but it could be useful for anyone. I could manage this list, with the acceptance of IMCA authority (I'm an IMCA member also). COST OF WEB HOSTING --- The cost of website hosting (ASP server, 200Mb, fast server, 20Gb transfer volume a month, 5 Access databases) is US$1200 a year with domain name. Anyone wishing to be a member should pay for the service or the hosting could be paid by advertising. Let me know what you think of all this ! Pierre-Marie PELE www.meteor-center.com -- Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
Hi again, I have some spectacular meteorites ending tonight, some worth over $500 each listed for one cent. Be sure to get bids in early, I have people email me every auction night who complain that they forgot to bid. Some special items of note: Nice large Thuathe specimen http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?viewItemrd=1item=2268613969 Large Gao http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=2268615133 Of course these are just some of the goodies up for grabs tonight, be sure and see the rest of them by clicking the links below. Over 60 meteorites, click the links below to see them all. http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=meteoritehunters http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=meteorite-hunters Thanks Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
I personally like the idea of being able to trace the history of meteorites (especially the more historical ones), e.g. by means of having labels of them from the pre-owners. Martin Horejsi shows some nice examples on his website. At it´s best these will be original labels which date back many decades or even more than a century - but these are very rare, and it is more probable that you will get a photocopy in some cases, from the once curated piece which later on was cut. I would have no problems of letting such labels go along with the associated meteorite (if I ever sold it, that is), and I would add my very own collection label - why not? But there is a limit, and this is privacy, depending on the degree of shyness of the individual collector. I know of collectors who would never agree to such a procedure of being involved in tracing - and this is *not* to be misunderstood for bad reasons which they may have. It is just their personal right to do so, for their very own reasons or motives. In my own case, as a long time collector I would give away my own label for a piece, but I would *never* add my name to some sort of paperwork (acting as a wandering cup), with special info lines to be filled up, which would then be passed on to the next owner(s). This would be way beyond my very own line of privacy. We all are different, aren´t we? :-) Just another thought, Alex Berlin/Germany -Recent Message from Mark Ford- And ... They would copy or fill out a new record card for each one, (if they want the benefits and better prices traceability would bring).. -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 16:09 To: mark ford Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories And what about the many collectors and dealers, who splatter down so many larger historic pieces to subgram crumbs to cash them in ebay?... - Original Message - From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:15 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories Pierre, Good idea, though it could be a bit labour intensive and I am not sure many people would be very keen on paying for the service every time they sold a stone. An electronic system could work in theory, and it would also be a great way of tracing/recovering stolen material. (A similar technique is already used for oil paintings). But it really only needs to be a paper record card, where each owner writes their name on it, along with any info. If an organization like the IMCA sold the blank cards (a new way of raising funds?) they could retain the right to recall cards if they were misused.. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Pierre-Marie PELE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2004 14:59 To: MeteoriteList Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories This is a great idea which could help keeping tracks for successive owners. But to keep a certain independance, there could be a website (with login access) where successive owners of a certain piece could register their ownership. CONCEPT - Here's a complete example (fictionous) : 1. A meteorite hunter finds an Allende individual. He wishes to sell it. 2. This meteorite hunter goes on the website, enters its login/password and creates a file (for example with the ID ALLENDE025). This ID will follow the meteorite from owner to another owner. The file is full with size, weight, presentation (individual, slice, fragment...), picture if any, ... 3. I wish to buy the Allende025 meteorite to the owner. I update the file Allende025 by changing the name of the previous owner and by replacing it with my name. Of course, the previous owner name would be kept for tracking. 4. And the same if I buy the meteorite to a 3rd owner... This database could be validated by IMCA. MY PROPOSAL - As a meteorite collector and website creator, I'm able to build such a site. That's a long work but it could be useful for anyone. I could manage this list, with the acceptance of IMCA authority (I'm an IMCA member also). COST OF WEB HOSTING --- The cost of website hosting (ASP server, 200Mb, fast server, 20Gb transfer volume a month, 5 Access databases) is US$1200 a year with domain name. Anyone wishing to be a member should pay for the service or the hosting could be paid by advertising. Let me know what you think of all this ! Pierre-Marie PELE www.meteor-center.com -- Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list
RE: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Histories
Amen regarding the removal of curating numbers from meteorite specimens. For many collectors and dealers, having a specimen from the Monnig collection or other famous institution is an important part of their meteorite's history. The outcry would be huge if it were found that those same institutions were quietly sanding off specimen numbers from fossils so that less well preserved specimens could be traded up for newer better ones. All the secrecy smacks of some type of academic skulduggery, and could backfire. Keep it all in the open, I say. Tracy Latimer _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
