[Mpls] Jordan Livability Forum Next Meeting September 19th 2002 at 6:30pm
Jordan Livability Forum Sept. 19 at 6:30 p.m. at Unity House, 2507 Fremont Av. N. http://www.startribune.com/stories/467/3214052.html -- __ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Jordan Livability Forum Next Meeting September 19th 2002 at 6:30pm
(forgot my name) Jordan Livability Forum Sept. 19 at 6:30 p.m. at Unity House, 2507 Fremont Av. N. http://www.startribune.com/stories/467/3214052.html Shawn Lewis, Field Neigbhorhood -- __ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Fw: [Mpls] Buses and Bikes in downtown
Hello Mike, Carol, Minneapolis Issues Folks: I have to agree with Mike on this one. Carol do you really believe that bike lanes make downtown Minneapolis less economically viable? Bike lanes make downtown more economically viable because it increase the traffic of healthy fit folks to downtown. The designer stores market their merchandise toward us. The restaurants love our thirst mouths and large appetites. Oh, sure, our hot fit bodies may be distracting forautomobile driverstalking on their cell phone and cause and accident or two. But hay, thats because automobile drivers are so superficial and out of shape. I am providing a service for the automobile driver by biking to work everyday. I leave and extra driving laneopen anda parking spot for those less fit auto-dependent folks. I am also helping to decrease pollutants in the air and actions are a positive action towards curbing global warming for future generations. Carsadd pollutants to the air that increase respiratory problems making it harder for children others to breath.The planet's temperature has increased at an alarming pace over the past several decades.Cars areone of the main factors contributing to global warming. Have you heard about this? I spent and entire Saturdaybicycling with my sona couple weeks back. We bikedfrom southMinneapolis down the river to downtown to visit a friend.Continuedour tripthrough downtown to the Cedar Lake/394 path (I do notknow therealname of the path).We stopped at Cedar Lake and went for aswim. Biked uptown using the Midtown Greenwaystopping to eat dinner. We completed our tripby taking theMidtownGreenway the majority way home.I only feared for my sons safety during the portion of the trip when we had to travel on roads that did not havededicated bike lanes.It was one of the best days we had this summer. I thank the bicycle advocates, political and community leaders that havefought for and fundedour amazing bicycletransit system. I encourage you to do more because the health of our earth andmy sons future is counting on you. Ken Bradley Tight Bike Bum Advocate Mike Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: So now bikes are responsible for the economic failure of downtown Minneapolis. B, as in B. S, as in S. Jeepers, I thought I was reducing traffic, pollution, and my commute time! I'm sorry. What city are we talking about here? Last time I rode my bike downtown (today) I only saw one street where a whole lane was dedicated to bike traffic. Hennepin Ave. has a two-way bike lane, and I believe2nd St. S. has a one way bike lane on each side so, ok, that's two streets.Every other bike lane that I know of downtown is a one way lane. I just measured the bike lane on Park Ave. 4ft. 6in. wide inside the stripes. Each stripe is 6in. wide. I don't think that space would accommodate a Ford Exhibition, er Expedition.(that was an attempt at humor, don't get all worked up now, I own a full size gas guzzling pickup 6ft. 4in. wide and make no apologies for it.) So, we have a bike lane 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 ft wide then there are 3 lanes for autos 11 ft.wide each, and oneach side of the street, a parking lane. That's 5 lanes forautos, half a lane for bikes. Just think, if we eliminated parking on these streets we could put up parking ramps everywhere. this would bring construction jobs and sit in a box and collect money jobs. Tax revenue too. Then 5 lanes would be open for driving. Half a lane on 8 streets, and the equivalent of a whole lane on two is not "substantially reducing the carrying capacityof the street system overall." By the way,I keep up with traffic. Matter of fact auto traffic downtown is slower than I am at rush hour, so that means they are in MY way. What is adding to traffic problems? Could be more cars. Another thing adding to traffic problems. People who drive down the bike lane on Hennepin IN CARS! No fewer than 7 in the span of one block today as I rode home. One guy even had a bike in his car, and he called me all kinds of nasty names for being in his law-breaking way. Where are the cops? They could bring in a lot of ticket revenue from these clowns. I agree, we need to try something different. I try to avoid bike lanes because at best they are a place to double park and at worst a death zone, but I hardly think they will be the ruin of civilization. Mike Nelson Central I think one of the biggest isssue with balancing modes in the downtown isthat the City has taken a whole traffic lane out of automobile service andturned them into bike lanes on several major streets, substantially reducingthe carrying capacity of the street system overall. Fewer people can nowget in and out of the downtown because of this change and this is addingsubstantially to traffic problems in the downtown. This, in turn, makes thedowntown less economically viable as a business center when compared tosuburban locations. Accomodating all modes of transportation is veryimportant but this tradeoff seems to have large negative
[Mpls] police bashing again
#34;Whether or not the account was accurate, it highlights the need for greater transparency in the way things are currently handled.#34; Whether or not the account was accurate...whether or not the account was accurate!! You just accused the police of threatening to pepper spray a child and arresting a great grandmother. I'm surprised you didn't claim they ate the leftover ribs too. I appreciate your concern for the civilian review process and the need for more accountability by the police, but this type of rumor mongering is what led to the melee/riot/block party over north a week or so ago. I think it was irresponsible to post such claims, and then say, oh well they may not be true at all. I mean, you're not even sure there was a party, much less arrests, but your accusations sure were detailed, and other people may very well be repeating them as fact. mark wilde windom park __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Bikes, Busses, Cars, and Public
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[Mpls] Mediation on Police Conduct
Many of you probably have recently heard discussion over mediating the community concerns over police conduct (i.e. recent shootings of the mentally ill, minors, african-americans, etc., and other incidents of excessive force). The goal of such a mediation is an enforceable plan for improvement in police training, procedures, and conduct. Many are calling for federal mediation, but other voices (the mayor and many council members) are calling for private mediation. Private mediation will solve nothing. Many community members inherently distrust private mediation because the choice of mediator can be manipulated to determine the outcome; ergo, any private mediation will be seen as a sham, conducted for the sake of appearances. Federal mediation has a process and a senior federal mediator (Patricia Glenn) for our area with over 30 years' experience; a private mediation would likely call for an agreement first on process for the mediation, causing delay allowing for manipulation of the outcome, and would require agreement on a mediator (also a delay) who will likely not be anywhere as qualified to conduct this type of mediation. Federal mediation will create a binding agreement between police and the community, and that agreement is monitored by the mediator thereafter for compliance; private mediation has no monitoring mechanism, and the quality of any that might be created under the agreement is dependent on the choice of monitor. Under federal mediation, if the agreement is not followed the federal government may take court action to enforce it; under private mediation, community members would have to attempt enforcement, which as you know is complicated, expensive, and unlikely to succeed (particularly within a meaningful time frame). Federal mediation is free; private mediation will cost a lot of tax dollars. In other words, private mediation is seen by many as the choice of elected officials and police who want to make certain that nothing will change as a result. Folks, if Minneapolis can stand behind its police training, procedures, and leadership, there is nothing to fear - let's go with federal mediation, make a good, enforceable agreement, live by it, and start healing the rift between community and police. If Minneapolis isn't so certain that its nose is clean, then let's get cleaned up with the help of the feds in the best process available. But if we take the route of private mediation, there will be no trusted solution, and perhaps no solution at all. We can only expect more conflict and more mistrust. Please be a voice for federal mediation. Contact the mayor your council person. Attend the city council meeting when the decision on federal mediation is supposed to be made - September 13, 9:30 a.m., City Hall, Room 317. Heck, if you're feeling riled up enough, make your feelings heard by joining the rally to demand federal mediation on Monday, September 9, 4:30 p.m., at City Hall. Shamelessly agitating, Roxana Orrell Central ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Bikes, Busses, Cars, and Public Health
When we think about accomodating various forms of transportation downtown -- or anywhere in Minneapolis, it seems to me that we need to consider the impact of that transportation on public health Passive transportation contributes to obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, lung disease, asthma and other resperatory illnesses. The pollution emitted from cars and such -- benzene, carbontetrachloride, and many other chemicals -- is harmful to us all, especially to children, the elderly, and those who are already ill or weakened. If we model for increased auto traffic, we need to carefully note the amount of increased pollution we are planning for. We need to allow people who live in heavily-trafficed areas the right to put limits on the amount of traffic and pollution they are willing to tolerate in their neighborhood. At very least, we need to put powerful incentives in place to encourage active zero-emission transportation options and least-polluting, least congestive, most-affordable forms of public tranportation. Combine with this powerful disincentives on auto use, and we may be able to create a healthier city and metro area. Folks in the London, England area have considered putting GPS systems on board metro -area cars, and then adding a tax as these vehicles travel about. The tax can be heavier during rush hour, and lifted during light-traffic times. This is a simple example of a disincentive -- may not be the best, but it is one idea. The government often taxes behaviour which it tries to discourage due to health risks and such, so why not tax congestion and pollution? I prefer taking a more positive approach, such as modeling new, healthy patterns of behaviour. That is why I ride a cargo trike and pedicab HPVs for work, play, and family use. Also, I am starting a Sustainable Transportation Project here in Minneapolis, which will provide safe, affordable, zero-emmission and low-emission options for people to use. It is based on the idea that the days of owning all the vehicles that you use is past. We need to have access to an array of vehicles best suited for specific uses, rather than to one car for everything. It makes no sense to drive the SUV that puls the boat to the cabin for trips such as going to the video store, or to work. Check out Corbinmotors.com for an excellent example of terrific urban commuting machines, or even the GEMCars for urban neighborhood errand-running. There are many other options -- human powered, electric assist, and electric. Combined with clean electric energy sources (solar and wind) these can help us all to live longer, happier, healthier lives. I hope to put together a fleet of sustainable vehicles, an educational program for safe use of these vehicles in the city, and a program for members of a co-op or network to mchoose a vehicle to try for a day, a week, or a month at a time. This way folks can finds the options that fit best for them, and can adjust as things change We need make plans and programs for the future which are truly innovative and helpful! Let's do it! If you are interested in my ideas, feel free to e-mail me off list with the topic Sustainable Tranportation Project in the subject line. I've been meeting regularly with a group of interested citizens for several months, and have enlisted the support of two City Council members, one State Legislator, and at least one city planner. We citizens need to take the initiative. This breathes life into democracy, and into our civic life! -- Gary Hoover -- Pedaling for a better future for us all in King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] New Park Headquarters - Building/Landscape design public meeting
The Minneapolis Park Recreation Board is holding a public meeting for all interested in the renovation of its new headquarters this coming Monday, September 9, from 5:00 7:00 pm at 2117 West River Road North Minneapolis, MN 55411. For more information, you can access the following link: http://www.minneapolisparks.org/default.asp?PageID=52prid=99SearchID=15944 = Candy Sartell Lind Bohanon, Ward 4 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Bikeracks on Buses
Minneapolis needs bike racks on ALL the buses. You may have noticed bike racks on some of our buses. What you DON'T see is many bikes ON those bike racks. The reason? because bicyclists are not going take a trip with their bike one way without a guarantee that they can return with their bike. On a recent trip to Saint Paul, I biked the entire length of Lake Street without seeing ONE bike rack on the 5 #21 buses that passed me. If there is a route that should have racks on all buses, it's the #21 because Saint Paul is so spread out. Last month, when I was in Los Angeles I saw lots of bikes on the racks. Every bus I saw had a rack. At the Pro Walk/Pro Bike Conference this week, I learned that many other cities have racks on over 90% of their buses. In Montreal they are putting bike racks on cabs. It makes sense to have buses and bikes work together. Ken Avidor Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] School Board
Today's Voter Guide flushed out the school board race for me. I didn't know Michael Atherton was a dropout who came back. I didn't know he can't even smile for a mug shot. Who's that for, Michael, the other malcontents? I didn't know how qualified the other candidates were. For example, Michael is VERY proud of working for a PhD in educational psychology. The voter's guide tells me Joseph Erickson is a professor of education at Augsburg. Michael should say why a vote for him is better than a vote for Erickson. Does he think Erickson doesnt know the research? And, finally, Michael says children need more structure. Maybe this is what the Strib meant by personal issues: Maybe Michael needed more structure for some reason and dropped out because they didn't provide it. By the way, Mr. Atherton, people move to the suburbs for all sorts of reasons; schools are only one of them. And if business would stop threatening to move if local government doesnt give them breaks on taxes, maybe urban districts would have enough money to match what the suburbs do in school. = Jim Mork Longfellow Neighborhood Minneapolis Discussion (With No Daily Limits) FOR RESIDENTS ONLY At: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mplscivicdiscuss/?yguid=66524673 Subscribe Today! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mediation on Police Conduct
I had lunch yesterday with St.Paul Council Member Jay Bennanov and I asked him about the federal mediation that the city of St. Paul went through and he though it went very well and was worth the effort. Folks in their police department have indicated the same. I think it would be a shame if the mayor and the city didn't take advantage of this opportunity in Minneapolis. Lisa McDonald East Harriet From: Ghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Mediation on Police Conduct Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:27:01 -0500 _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: police bashing again (was Labor Day police raid in NE Minneapolis)
In my response, I've shown the excerpts from Mark's post out of order. The original post can be viewed here: http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2002-September/016242.html - - - Mark Wilde wrote (last paragraph) - - - I think it was irresponsible to post such claims, and then say, oh well they may not be true at all. I mean, you're not even sure there was a party, much less arrests, but your accusations sure were detailed, and other people may very well be repeating them as fact. - - - end excerpt - - - Interesting. I don't believe I made any accusations but rather was looking for facts regarding allegations that I saw reported on Indymedia. I took specific measures to ensure that it was clear that I was reporting statements made in someone else's post and also pointed out when that person's report were based on other people's reports. To go over my original email, before I ever started listing what was reported, I made it very clear that I was detailing a personal account and that I wasn't jumping to any conclusions. This is quite a bit different than the implication that I made accusations and then followed them with a disclaimer of oh well they may not be true at all: - - - my original post (excerpt) - - - On Tuesday morning, a post appeared on Twincities Indymedia regarding a personal observation of a police raid on a party in Northeast Minneapolis. [SNIP paragraph detailing where to find original post] I am pulling specific allegations from the story and attempting to present them in a manner that doesn't jump to conclusions. Read the Indymedia post for the original report. - - - end excerpt - - - The following two paragraphs were detailing the non-inflamatory aspects of the report: - - - my original post, cont. (excerpt) - - - The account states that a black family in a predominately white neighborhood was having a family barbecue on Monday evening. The family was playing their music quite loud, and at some point, the police drove by and let them know that they needed to turn the music down which they did. When the police left, they turned it back up. - - - end excerpt - - - I then reported the specific allegations that were made. I made it clear that these were claims and that they were reported as second hand information stated by people in the household that was ticketed: - - - my original post, cont. (excerpt) - - - The account claims that a number of police arrived and gives some quotes that were overheard, but most of the rest of it was reported as second hand from the owner of the house and other family members who weren't arrested. It states: - The owner of the house was ticked for unlawful assembly without a permit - The police pepper sprayed a number of people in the house after being told they couldn't just walk in (other provocation to warrant the use of chemical irritants at that time was not reported) - The great grandmother kicked an officer in the shins after he pointed pepper spray at a three month old child. She then was roughly arrested. - Three family members were arrested, but the post did not state the charges. - - - end excerpt - - - The following several paragraphs were questions about getting more information and asking details about specific allegations made. My strongest statements in this section were: - - - my original post, cont. (excerpt) - - - If the report is accurate in describing the level of force used, isn't this a bit extreme? Would pointing chemical irritants at a baby be considered provocation? I wasn't there, so I don't know what actually happened, but I know I'd be pretty upset if I saw someone pointing pepper spray at a baby. Obviously, if they were playing the music loud and turned it back up after being told to turn it down, they earned a ticket for the appropriate noise violation, but unless there is a lot more to the story, it seems like this was an extremely heavy handed way of dealing with the situation. - - - end excerpt - - - If the report is accurate, I wasn't there, so I don't know what actually happened, unless there is a lot more to the story. Every statement I made is disclaimed with the fact that I don't know the facts and highlights the reason why I need more information. Back to your email: - - - Mark Wilde wrote (excerpt) - - - Whether or not the account was accurate, it highlights the need for greater transparency in the way things are currently handled. Whether or not the account was accurate...whether or not the account was accurate!! You just accused the police of threatening to pepper spray a child and arresting a great grandmother. I'm surprised you didn't claim they ate the leftover ribs too. - - - end excerpt - - - I did not accuse the police of threatening to pepper spray a child. I stated that the person who made the original post to Indymedia reported that witnesses in the house said that police were pointing pepper spray at a child. Additionally you left out the rest of the paragraph which
Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Bikes, Busses, Cars, and Public Health
Title: Fwd: Re: [Mpls] Bikes, Busses, Cars, and Public Health Resend, bad address, my apologies. Dyna Sluyter from Hawthorne Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:01:37 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: dyna [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bikes, Busses, Cars, and Public Health Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: Our city engineers' hearts are in the right place when it comes to laying out bike lanes and such, but the execution has been rather inept. Bike lanes should be on the right, rather than left where Minneapolis has been putting them. Historicly, traffic engineers worldwide for quite good reasons have put the slowest traffic next to the curb or ditch, and the fastest to the center. Minneapolis' contravention of this sound engineering principle confuses all road users and puts the most vulnerable road users- cyclists- in the center of the road approaching traffic. This creates a potential for head on collisions at combined speeds of up to 60 miles per hour, versus rear end collisions at a closing speed of typically 15 MPH if the bike lanes had been properly located on the right. Such an accident would be horrendous in any lane, but I suspect the difference between 15 and 60 MPH impact speeds would be between serious but survivable injury and life and death. Ultimately I suspect Minneapolis will face a multimillion dollar liability suit for such an accident and the bike lanes will be moved to their proper place on the right. Another mistake made in creating the bike lanes was taking a foot or so of width out of each traffic lane. This results in a lane of 11 foot width of narrower. Problem is, big trucks and busses are 10 foot wide across the mirrors, leaving only a few inches clearance on many downtown streets. Strangely, the same engineers who gave us these scrunched down lanes in downtown have given us spacious 16 foot wide right lanes on many bridges. All it would take is a bit of paint and signage to create bike lanes on these routes like the Plymouth and Broadway bridges. As long as they've got the striping truck out they might as well restripe some of the ancient 40 foot wide 4 lanes (Broadway around Central comes to mind) into two twelve foot lanes plus bike lanes. A note to the trike and pedicab promoters: Given that a standard bike lane is only 4 feet wide, it would be wise to keep the width of these vehicles to the Dutch standard of of 1 meter (39.37 inches) width. On another subject, any more sightings of Rick Roche ads or mailings? Dyna Sluyter from Hawthorne -- --
[Mpls] police/communities of color and Pulse story
There is real comolexity todeal with around what happened in North Mpls.Iys not about media image or bashing police or denal that crime exists. I've been an inne city resident (grew up in suburb) for 35 yeara have experienced crime. But, there's something wrong woth criminalizing whole neighborhoods-- whole races. If maninsream media would get off the defense take a loook they would see it is standard procedure to tell every police shooting story from POV of police. Its disungenuous to say they WOULD have included witnesses IF not for violemce Aug 22nd. I was NOT met with ANY hostility when I went as a reporter to the Nside. Media IS important because it SHAPES workd views opinions-- how we see/treat each other. In a democracy, no authority comes without accountability--but,police are the exception to this! ALL of us from ANY community should find that troubling. Various groups are calling for FEDERAL mediation w/the police to improve relations towards struggling q/poverty crime are the legacies of racism and white supremacy we STILL have not faced and resolved.We could use Truth Reconcilliation Commissions 9like that in post-apartheud S Africa) all over the US--INCLUDING Minnesota. Lydia Howwell, South Minneapolis ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] FW: MPS Webpage Information
-Original Message- From: David Brauer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:22 AM To: Anderson, Sue Subject: Re: MPS Webpage Information Sue - can you send this to the issues list? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks for looking it over! Best, David on 9/6/02 10:32 AM, Anderson, Sue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, Although no statistical expert (and it's been many years since my college classes), the questions I would have after reviewing the website data are these: + No coefficients of variation are shown in the relatively simplified graphs. As these are significantly affected by the number of observations (students) in each category, it would be expected that for some groups these might be quite large (small number of students) vs. the larger groups. This could result in overlapping data which would indicate no real statistical differences across groups or years of reduced class size. The large sample size (3022 students) as a whole would probably show the trends, since this is a statistically valid sample size, but individual sub-categories (years or race) might not show a significant trend. + There is no category of Caucasian or Other, so technically a claim cannot be made that All races benefit, as not All races are represented. + A point made previously in other contexts is that these studies are conducted using various methodologies: some seem to track the same students through the timeframe (in this case 9 years apparently, 1990-1999); others seem to track classes or schools which may be more dynamic. There is no indication as to the method used in this study, and no indication of how random the sampling was. I would guess that there would be wide variations in MBST test results between samplings at different schools in the District (ref. recent Star Trib articles and other info published by the District). So without more information it's difficult to judge if there really is sufficient randomness to draw conclusions across the whole MPS spectrum. + No indication is given as to the age categories this data was taken from, nor is there any analysis of self-selection factors which may be occuring over the 9-year timeframe. The starting student number is the same as the ending student number apparently. The study indicates it is a longitudinal study, but there is no additional data. Over the 9 years, if the same group was tracked, students dropping out at differential rates across races would tend to impact the data. If it's statistically random across schools and district, demographic variations within the MPS students would impact the data. If this research has been published in a more complete form (preferably in a refereed journal), many of these questions may be answered. As it stands, the website makes claims that wouldn't seem to be substantiated by what we see. Sue Anderson, live in Phillips , work in Fridley ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Bikes, Busses, Cars, and Public Health
Thanks to Gary for taking such an approach to this topic. I hope this post can be read by everyone who lives near the greenway the 35W/Lake projects, not just the dtwn northloop folks. Previously on the list we've talked about health safety (traffic accidents usability), the environmental small business concerns, but no one has shined the spotlight directly on the public health issue. Does anyone one know of ANY studies on this topic that have been done in Mpls.? Is anyone planning on running any numbers on this? What governing body or associated advisory committee would address such a request or information? mandy tempel NE (W1 P6) Message: 8 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:39:26 EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Bikes, Busses, Cars, and Public Health When we think about accomodating various forms of transportation downtown -- or anywhere in Minneapolis, it seems to me that we need to consider the impact of that transportation on public health Passive transportation contributes to obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, lung disease, asthma and other resperatory illnesses. The pollution emitted from cars and such -- benzene, carbontetrachloride, and many other chemicals -- is harmful to us all, especially to children, the elderly, and those who are already ill or weakened. If we model for increased auto traffic, we need to carefully note the amount of increased pollution we are planning for. We need to allow people who live in heavily-trafficed areas the right to put limits on the amount of traffic and pollution they are willing to tolerate in their neighborhood. At very least, we need to put powerful incentives in place to encourage active zero-emission transportation options and least-polluting, least congestive, most-affordable forms of public tranportation. Combine with this powerful disincentives on auto use, and we may be able to create a healthier city and metro area. Folks in the London, England area have considered putting GPS systems on board metro -area cars, and then adding a tax as these vehicles travel about. The tax can be heavier during rush hour, and lifted during light-traffic times. This is a simple example of a disincentive -- may not be the best, but it is one idea. The government often taxes behaviour which it tries to discourage due to health risks and such, so why not tax congestion and pollution? I prefer taking a more positive approach, such as modeling new, healthy patterns of behaviour. That is why I ride a cargo trike and pedicab HPVs for work, play, and family use. Also, I am starting a Sustainable Transportation Project here in Minneapolis, which will provide safe, affordable, zero-emmission and low-emission options for people to use. It is based on the idea that the days of owning all the vehicles that you use is past. We need to have access to an array of vehicles best suited for specific uses, rather than to one car for everything. It makes no sense to drive the SUV that puls the boat to the cabin for trips such as going to the video store, or to work. Check out Corbinmotors.com for an excellent example of terrific urban commuting machines, or even the GEMCars for urban neighborhood errand-running. There are many other options -- human powered, electric assist, and electric. Combined with clean electric energy sources (solar and wind) these can help us all to live longer, happier, healthier lives. I hope to put together a fleet of sustainable vehicles, an educational program for safe use of these vehicles in the city, and a program for members of a co-op or network to mchoose a vehicle to try for a day, a week, or a month at a time. This way folks can finds the options that fit best for them, and can adjust as things change We need make plans and programs for the future which are truly innovative and helpful! Let's do it! If you are interested in my ideas, feel free to e-mail me off list with the topic Sustainable Tranportation Project in the subject line. I've been meeting regularly with a group of interested citizens for several months, and have enlisted the support of two City Council members, one State Legislator, and at least one city planner. We citizens need to take the initiative. This breathes life into democracy, and into our civic life! -- Gary Hoover -- Pedaling for a better future for us all in King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Union Endorses Republican Pawlenty
I see where the Minneapolis Police Federation has endorsed Republican Tim Pawlenty for Governor. http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/4012065.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp Does anyone recall any recent union endorsements for a Republican candidate for statewide office? Bill Dooley Kenny ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: police bashing again (was Labor Day police raid in NE Minneapolis)
Jason wrote: Rumors are going to be out there and unless someone makes an effort to get all sides of the story and get those out there too, the rumors will fly unchecked. There IS a story going around of this happening and I am trying to collect other points of view about what happened. Chris responds: Well, Jason, having read through the account on the Lyndale site, whatever its accuracy, I don't feel great assurance about its reliability. That the account gives no victim names nor police badge #'s is problematic. Nor does the writer identify herself, save for handle mamansita. There's no way to verify any of this. Long before we get all sides of the story, it would be good to get some basics, like who took part and who is doing the story telling. Otherwise, this is the stuff of rumors. Beckwith Ward 6 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Performance-Art
NEW WORK THE DAFFODILS - a performance-work by Séamas Cain - was performed at dawn on August 19th, 2002, in the Sculpture Garden of the Walker Art Center, in Minneapolis, Minnesota. The script for the performance may be examined at http://seamascain.writernetwork.com. There is controversy and debate throughout the city of Bangkok, Thailand. Will the city-authorities build a car-park for an art museum - or an art museum for a car-park?! In response, artists have created a site-specific Art Installation called FREE PARKING. The artists want to turn this exhibition-space into a parking area! The existing space remains unchanged - it is merely inhabited differently. In turn, it is also entirely possible to enter car-park spaces to create new and different situations without changing the original function of the place. Its a question of how to engage people through the experience of art within the integral experience of the city. FREE PARKING, a performance-work by Séamas Cain - written in conjunction with the Art Installation - was presented on August 14 through August 31, 2002 at the Art Gallery of the Centre of Academic Resources for Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok, Thailand. The script for the performance may be examined at http://seamascain.writernetwork.com. SEATURTLES - a performance-work by Séamas Cain - was performed at dawn on August 10th, 2002 by Mary Roe O'Neill at the sea-level megalith of Creevykeel in County Sligo, Ireland. Mary Roe O'Neill spoke the words of the script. Then - ritually, throughout Creevykeel - she guided the audience in a hunt for seaturtles! The script for the performance may be examined at http://seamascain.writernetwork.com. Eight new poems by Séamas Cain are included on the UPLAND TROUT web-site, at http://www.is.net.btinternet.co.uk. UPLAND TROUT - coordinated by Jay Woolrich - is based at Leicester, England. We thank the SURREALISME web-site - coordinated by Willem den Broeder in Amsterdam, Holland - for providing a link to the Poems of Séamas Cain web-site. SURREALISME may be examined at http://www.surrealisme.nl/tekst/linksn.htm. We thank the Revista Virtual de Arte y Cultura ESCÁNER CULTURAL [coordinated by Isabel Aranda, and based at Santiago in Chile] for providing a link to the Poems of Séamas Cain web-site. ESCÁNER CULTURAL may be examined at http://www.escaner.cl/escaner38/escalink.htm. We thank the Periodico CNT [based at Granada, Spain] for providing a link - as ARTISTAS SOLIDARIOS - to the Poems of Séamas Cain web-site. The Periodico CNT may be examined at http://www.periodicocnt.org/275ene2002/comunicados/index.htm. We thank Floreal Rodríguez de la Paz - of SIEMBRA, based at Alcoy-Alicante, in Spain - for his advice and encouragement. Yours for new creativity, Tom Gilliam, Juan Arroyo and Rick Milanov for Action_IWA - _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Mpls population is now the same as it was in 1920
Population in Minneapolis per the Federal Census: 1910 - 301,408 1920 - 380,582 1930 - 464,356 1940 - 492,370 1950 - 521,718 1960 - 482,872 1970 - 434,400 1980 - 370,951 1990 - 368,383 2000 - 382,618 School enrollment 2001: 47,726 (down from 48,991 in 2000) Registered voters at the end of 2001: 223,778 Votes cast in November 2001: 89,927 Unemployment rate 2001: 3.9% Each time we discuss and debate issues, especially the cost of local government, it is important to maintain perspective - we are serving the same number of people that we did 80 years ago. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside Property Owner and Taxpayer North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] London's answer to traffic congestion
Gary wrote-- Folks in the London, England area have considered putting GPS systems on board metro -area cars, and then adding a tax as these vehicles travel about. The tax can be heavier during rush hour, and lifted during light-traffic times. This is a simple example of a disincentive -- may not be the best, but it is one idea. The government often taxes behaviour which it tries to discourage due to health risks and such, so why not tax congestion and pollution? --- Cindy says-- check out this webpage: http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/travel/features/charging_andy.shtml and this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/travel/features/background.shtml Sounds like it's a done deal, to be implemented next year. It'll be interesting to see how it works. Cindy Lindau Tip o' the Wedge ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mpls population is now the same as it was in 1920
Glancing at population figures is interesting and raises many further questions. What was the city budget in 1920? What was the median household income? What services were provided by the city in 1920 vs. today? What was the unemployment rate in 1920? What was the public school enrollment? Voter turnout? If we want to compare our situation today in regards to city spending, with 80 years ago, we need to look at more than just population. Here's one more factor to consider. The value of today's Minneapolis dollar is equivalent to a shiny dime in 1920. (Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Consumer Price Index - http://www.bls.gov/cpi/ ) Conor Donnelly Waitepark 1-2 Victoria Heller wrote: Each time we discuss and debate issues, especially the cost of local government, it is important to maintain perspective - we are serving the same number of people that we did 80 years ago. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Yes, we are living in the same City. Just each looking at it thru ...
By golly, Jonathan you got the Mississippi County correct. While I have not been pulled over by the Minneapolis Police for driving while Black. I have been pulled over for driving along Franklin while White. My sons who look like suburban kids, yet live across the street from me in Ventura Village, are continually pulled over for being White and in my neighborhood. Some police apparently do not believe that such kids would have any interest on Franklin Avenue other than drugs and crime. What is even more comical is the way they are sometimes treated when in the company of their Black, Native and Hispanic friends. Then for sure some illegal trade is going on, otherwise these people would not be standing beside a house talking a block from Franklin. The kids resented such when they were young, but now the kids and their friends enjoy it as comic relief. I have taught all of them to be sure to thank the police officer for industriously performing their duty and make a suggestion about where real crime is actually taking place. While some might prefer their Issues with a little more fluff and a little less meat, I think these discussions are important and are the real Minneapolis Issues. While I may disagree with Jonathan on specific logical constructs from the synthesis of specific data, I thank Jonathan for engaging in the discourse. Such discourse is immensely valuable, not because its Jonathan's or my ideas, but because of the exercise of engaging in it. The Issue for Minneapolis is that Racism is so well hidden that it can't be talked about in real terms. The darkness of racism and other mental constructs have a hard time existing when brought out of the hidden dark holes of the mind into the light of day by discussion. Arabs have a saying, Darkness can not stay when the light comes. Stupid ideas only continue when kept from the sight of other men and women. So thanks Jonathan for shining a little light through your red lenses. Though I will be shining mine with a blue one, hopefully between the two, each of us might gain a little more vision. And such sparks as are struck, might just illuminate the issue for some other person who might also start thinking rather than seeking Fluff. (Not that I do not from time to time enjoy fluff. But usually as dessert, not the main course). While I might not like the way he spices, or slices it, Jonathan does bring the meat and potatoes to the table. Jim Graham, Ventura Village - Original Message - ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] crooks
A few weeks ago somebody made a statement about the Kennedys, Rockefellers etc that they were crooks, I didn't disagree as I know that for instance, Franklyn Delano Roosevelt's mother's family, the Delanos -as well as numerous other good family names- made lots of money pushing opium into the Orient in context of the early last century episode in which the Queen's navy fired cannon into Chinese harbors to force them to accept the West shiping and selling drugs into China. To put it in context of Minneapolis though, does anyone know of any instance of big time crooks operating in the city and stealing from everyone? How about the banks; Wells Fargo and TCF advertise 'Free Checking', then when you deposit they don't credit you for so many days, but having deposited you write checks to pay a few bills, the check hits the bank in hours and there being no money there, -the deposit not having been credited, they bounce a bunch of your checks, charge you $30. per check and then the notice doesn't come out to you for a few extra days, in which time you the customer -fat dumb and happy- are writing a check or two in the pool hall or maybe the grocery store or to buy overshoes for your kid, and then when you find out, the bank has reaped hundreds of dollars in fees from your 'free' checking account. The overdraft and nsf fees make up as much or more as the 'earnings' of the banks -large and small- while the old time functions of the banks -getting their earnings from interest on credits -or loans- which they do little of anymore, is a joke. The banks have charters issued by State and Federal Government on which they have to be convincing that they will serve their community, and so they spend $35 per month putting adds in neighborhood papers, they keep a scrapbook of the adds and show it to regulators to evidence compliance with Community Reinvestment Act law. Some of them do some little bit of community investment but little to justify being the depository for all the thousands of wage earners and depositors up and down the streets. Anybody got any combat stories about banks? Attorneys are as bad or worse for robbing people. Anybody got any good Minneapolis attorney stories? James Jacobsen // Whittier ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: police bashing again (was Labor Day police raid in NE Minneapolis)
phaedrus wrote: I've obtained the public information available from the Minneapolis Police Department regarding this incident. - - - begin information from police report - - - Arrestee 1 (AP1), 42 year old female Charges: Disruptive Party Arrestee 4 (AP4), 67 year old female Charges: Obstruction of legal process, Assaulting a police officer, Disruptive Party Force used in arrest AP3 and AP4 kicked officers as they were trying to make an arrest. AP2 physically prevented officers from making an arrest. AP1 was having a noisy assembly, where all this occurred. AP1 cited and released. APs 2, 3 and 4 were booked HCJ. - - - - - - end information from police report - - - Secondly, the information is really sparse. It is important to note that the citation was for disruptive party snip WM: I'd disagree that the information is sparse. Look to the original, inflamatory story on this list. *the police had come by and told the household the stereo was too loud, household complied and turned stereo down till cops moved, then turned it back up. *Cops came back and charged AP1 with disruptive party. The original report said 'nobody was bothered by the music.' Doesn't matter. The police noted the loud music and, as part of responding to quality of life issues, issues a citation on its second time around the block. Offense is disruptive party (a.k.a. loud music). Next, the whole household gets into the act. Why is a 67 year old woman kicking a cop in the ankles? The cops let them off the first go round, but not the second. A simple party citation has now turned into one form of domestic disturbance in that the family has turned on the cops. They make very small video and audio recording devices. What if we had every officer wear a tamper proof device into every incident. WM: All the officer would have to do is face away from whatever fracas. This only adds weight to police equipment, has hardly a chance to improve officer performance. WizzrdMarks, Central ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] MyBallot.net - The Primary Voter's Online Sample Ballot Source
List, I love the idea of myballot.net. I have been looking for a resource to provide friends of mine who are not yet engage in politics. Unfortunately myballot.net is not yet that resource -- but it could be! The best thing about myballot.net is that it does let you know which House, Senate, County and Judicial races you will be voting in. This is nice; of course you could already get this at the Secretary of State's or Hennepin County's sites. I check four addresses. The first two had significant problems and the other two found the ballot correctly. Based on past experience, it seemed as though the engine for this was the same one that Hennepin County has. There are challenges, mentioned on this list before, with the Hennepin County database which have not been cleaned up or resolved. More importantly is instead of integrating the links to the candidates web site, or issue-based links compiling information from the candidates on the different issues -- it simply forwards the user to a Goggle search of the candidates name and the identified issue. For incumbents with a record, press and listings from interest groups this works sometimes. For Jean Wagenius on the issue of Environment Goggle's top choices were links to environmental organization proclaiming Rep. Wagenius' strong environmental leadership. For Greg Gray the first link on the issue I picked sent me to a far right wing group that had an editorial labeling Greg Gray as a racist for supporting gun control as a legislator. Other places in the site listed Dick Gephardt as a communist subverting the constitution and Franklin Delano Roosevelt as their top pick for Racist of the Month. For challengers it is even more difficult. For none of the challengers that I clicked were any of the top ten offered links actually about the person in question. This was especially true for people with common last names -- like Johnson. For a political novice or someone without my addiction to the internet -- this would be frustrating and result in not learning about the challengers. On the other hand I did learn that an Andrew Koebrick who may or may not be the same person as the Green Party Secretary of State Candidate appealed a City Council action to build 88 units of Senior Housing on July 24, 2002. Most disappointing there is no way to look at comparisons between the candidates on issues. Either in their own words -- or some type of translation. I urge every one of our overactive list users to check the site so constructive comments can be forwarded to the great volunteers trying to make this happen. Perhaps a couple of us should also volunteer to help. So I will do that as well! Joseph Barisonzi Lyndale, Ward 10 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Yes, we are living in the same City. Just each looking at it thruthe colored and distorted glasses of RACE
Well for cryin out loud. The exchanges between the two appeared to me as personal attacks back and forth - a sort of chicken/egg argument that can never be 'won' really. I don't discount the discussion - just the contemplation of the roots of racism part, as if there was a point in time when it started and by whom. I wholeheartedly agree that it does need to be talked about - openly and loudly, if necessary. I find it ironic that it's acceptable and perfectly appropriate dinner conversation to let even a mild acquaintence know your sexual preferences these days, yet racism remains in the closet as a sort of Shhh subject for most people, especially Minnesotans er, Minneapolitans of a pinkish-hue. JHarmon Cleveland From: paul weir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Yes, we are living in the same City. Just each looking at it thru the colored and distorted glasses of RACE Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 09:11:15 -0500 I think the exchanges between J. Palmer and J. Graham on the subject of race are very valuable. Not elegantly written, to be sure, but indisputably serious, deeply felt, intelligent, and for the most part, civil. In other words, a far cry from the bigoted polemics that J.C. Harmon seems to think they are. Paul Weir Phillips ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: police bashing again (was Labor Day police raid in NE Minneapolis)
Well, two main complaints with the public record. First of all, it isn't available online. Working downtown, it wasn't so bad to go get it and it only cost me a quarter. The desk staff were efficient and helpful, but it would be difficult for people not working downtown to get this information. The data is also available from a public terminal in the office, so it shouldn't be hard to put online. I did have to sign a receipt for the printout. It would be more difficult for people not downtown to get this information, and even in my case, it took me about 45 minutes to get there, get the information and get back. Secondly, the information is really sparse. What is missing from the picture is how what was presumably a citation going to AP1 for a Disruptive Party escalated to three people attempting to obstruct a(n) arrest(s). Was any chemical irritant used? No medical treatment was listed but an ambulance showed up. Is this standard practice or were there no injuries? If there were injuries, are injuries treated on location reported? Right now the only place I can go for this information are those who were in the house, but that perspective was already posted to Indymedia. If I understood the records clerk correctly, the full police report becomes available to the plaintiffs when they go to court. It is important to note that the citation was for disruptive party and not unlawful assembly without a permit as originally stated. This is obviously an appropriate citation based on all accounts. The information should be available online and it should have more detail. I still want to know the officer's perspective on how the situation escalated. Jason thanks for posting this information. This brings me to my biggest complaint about the police - and it is not brutality. I think in general, they need to work on better documentation of arrests. Better more complete descriptions -- who, what, when, where, how, would help with getting convictions for those who should be convicted and should serve prison time. I also agree this information should be available online if it is available to the public. At the same time, I appreciated Lydia Howell from Pulse posting her perspective on this list. There is real comolexity todeal with around what happened in North Mpls.Iys not about media image or bashing police or denal that crime exists. I've been an inne city resident (grew up in suburb) for 35 yeara have experienced crime. But, there's something wrong woth criminalizing whole neighborhoods-- whole races. EY: I agree. There is also something wrong with not providing police protection in high crime neighborhoods. Often the people in these neighborhoods need the police protection the most. Ms. Howell continues: If maninsream media would get off the defense take a loook they would see it is standard procedure to tell every police shooting story from POV of police. Its disungenuous to say they WOULD have included witnesses IF not for violemce Aug 22nd. I was NOT met with ANY hostility when I went as a reporter to the Nside. Media IS important because it SHAPES workd views opinions-- how we see/treat each other. === Other reporters were beaten up. I'll agree with you, that I'd like to see reporters do more to get stories from a variety of perspectives, and not just take the police departments word on it. A good reporter on that beat, would develop neighborhood sources -- from a variety of points of view. I saw reporters doing that with this story. It was neighborhood residents who were saying to reporters, we don't want Spike Moss here, he doesn't do anything to get more permanent solutions to the problems and challenges of the area. Ms. Powell continues: In a democracy, no authority comes without accountability--but,police are the exception to this! ALL of us from ANY community should find that troubling. EY: I agree that the police should be accountable. However, I do not agree that they are the only government workers who have authority, but have little accountability. Howell continues: Various groups are calling for FEDERAL mediation w/the police to improve relations towards struggling q/poverty crime are the legacies of racism and white supremacy we STILL have not faced and resolved.We could use Truth Reconcilliation Commissions 9like that in post-apartheud S Africa) all over the US--INCLUDING Minnesota. EY: I'd like to know more pro and con about this mediation. I have no problem with federal mediation. The question is, what will happen from it, and who represents the community and how is the community defined? J Harmon writes regarding the racism thread: Well for cryin out loud. The exchanges between the two appeared to me as personal attacks back and forth - a sort of chicken/egg argument that can never be 'won' really. I don't discount the discussion - just the contemplation of the roots of racism part, as
[Mpls] The Rake
List; Does the 'Rake' have a websight? Thanks in advance Craig Miller Former Fultoninte [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] School Board
Jim Mork says: I didn't know Michael Atherton was a dropout who came back. I didn't know he can't even smile for a mug shot. Who's that for, Michael, the other malcontents? I do not participate in this List to read people's cheap shots and irrelevant insults. I'm all for heated debate of the issues, but I don't think anybody who puts themselves out there as a candidate deserves this kind of disrespectful treatment. Michelle Mensing Armatage ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: police bashing again (was Labor Day police raid in NE Minneapolis)
What about the word sinister? one definition of it's latin form is left hand. I think we owe our Southpaw friends a big apology. After all, being left-handed is only an appendage preference, right? Mike Nelson Head of Dictionaries Is Kool Committee Central However, I find alot of the politically correct bs counter to that goal. A good case in point is all the controversies over the use of the word niggardly - which means miserly. You lose me, when you say you can't use a word because it sounds like another word. Eva Eva Young Near North Minneapolis You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone - not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be. --Article II of the Bill of Non-Rights. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Yes, we are living in the same City. Just each looking at it thru ...
By golly, Jonathan you got the Mississippi County correct. You'd be surprised how much of my family roots, especially the Irish are down in Mississippi County. I think Jim raises a very good point about this dialogue being very important, and needing to be raised. I think the largest problem about racism is that people don't talk about it. You don't have to agree, but listening to points of view gives you a slightly different view in regards the information and area being discussed. It's out there and it won't go away until it's dealt with. Most importantly, I think Jim and I illustrated that it's possible to agree to disagree and yet still respect each other's positions. One of the first major steps in pulling everyone together. I think Jim is the exception to the rule as normal experiences go, and even more of a testament to his character that he hasn't been jaded as most be would by now. So Jim, let's keep looking through our glasses and maybe trade once inawhile and see if we and others can wake up this city in some fashion. Jonathan Palmer Victory ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] crooks
James Jacobsen // Whittier, writes in part: snip ...How about the banks snip ...when you deposit they don't credit you for so many days, but having deposited you write checks to pay a few bills, the check hits the bank in hours and there being no money there, -the deposit not having been credited, they bounce a bunch of your checks, charge you $30. per check and then the notice doesn't come out to you for a few extra days, in which time you the customer -fat dumb and happy- are writing a check or two in the pool hall or maybe the grocery store or to buy overshoes for your kid, and then when you find out, the bank has reaped hundreds of dollars in fees from your 'free' checking account. The overdraft and nsf fees make up as much or more as the 'earnings' of the banks -large and small- while the old time functions of the banks -getting their earnings from interest on credits -or loans- which they do little of anymore, is a joke. People can complain to the bank and state regulators, the Federal Reserve, etc.-- usually to no avail; but for many, they just quit playing that game-- it's just easier for them to do business in cash, use check cashing businesses and money orders, and avoid the bank altogether. Lots of folks don't use banks, credit cards or ATMs, instead relying on cash and money orders and barter to pay monthly bills. It's a diverse economy out there! Michael Hohmann ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Decorum
Staying on this decorum thing... Our guidelines ask that if members have complaints about another member's conduct, they email me directly. It hurts the list if it becomes a discussion about the list. If someone has taken a personal shot, let me know (and let the person know offlist) and I'll deal with it. I know the intention here is good, but the rule (at http://www.e-democracy.org/mpls) is clear. 3. Complaints about a list member's behavior should be directed to the list member and the list owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] These complaints should not be posted to the list. David Brauer List manager -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michelle Mensing Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 8:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] School Board Jim Mork says: I didn't know Michael Atherton was a dropout who came back. I didn't know he can't even smile for a mug shot. Who's that for, Michael, the other malcontents? I do not participate in this List to read people's cheap shots and irrelevant insults. I'm all for heated debate of the issues, but I don't think anybody who puts themselves out there as a candidate deserves this kind of disrespectful treatment. Michelle Mensing Armatage ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Minneapolis school board candidate web page
The E-Democracy site now has a page devoted to Minneapolis School Board candidates. http://www.e-democracy.org/2002/local.html ...proving that Michael Atherton (who wrote the page) and David Brauer (who formatted ftp'd it) can work together! Thanks to Michael for volunteering to do this. We will soon add a local candidate directory link to other E-Democracy pages. David Brauer List manager ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Mpls School Board page
There is now a local candidates link on the main E-Democracy 2002 Election page. http://www.e-democracy.org/2002/ David Brauer List manager ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Meeting My Post Limit
Gotta lump some responses due to the post limit (mplscivicdiscuss doesnt have limits): Various groups are calling for FEDERAL mediation w/the police to improve relations towards struggling q/poverty crime are the legacies of racism and white supremacy we STILL have not faced and resolved.We could use Truth Reconcilliation Commissions 9like that in post-apartheud S Africa) all over the US--INCLUDING Minnesota. Lydia Howwell, South Minneapolis Hey, Lydia, good input. I like that idea. Swear people in and get them to give testimony on what they directly saw and other evidence they could give. This would be TRUE civilian review because it would be outside the power structure and they couldnt use their many subtle measure to shut up whistle-blowers. I'm sure they WOULD try to smear the credibility of it, so some weighty names would have to align with it to prevent that. S Africa profited from having Nelson Mandela who is nearly a national saint to the indigenous local people. Joseph Barisonzi: 3. Does the involvement of a federal mediator who works for the Attorney General's office impact immigrant communities? How does the Somali or Mexican community feel about the use of Ashcroft's AG department? Joseph: If they don't like the IDEAS of the mediator, they can simply give the media a thumbs down? But you do raise a valid point: mediate between which parties? I doubt anyone can speak for the residents of the neighborhood. They can give local input, things the police and politicians simply don't KNOW. But an agreement? At most the process could give the authorities some guidelines based on reasoned research. It could tone down the rhetoric so people could start to LISTEN to each other. Jim Macguire: Another thing adding to traffic problems. People who drive down the bike lane on Hennepin IN CARS! This is an argument for some routes that are BIKES ONLY. Rather than sharing on the Mall, I think maybe society should start thinking of segregating bike traffic. We have sidewalks to segregate pedestrians. Why not something to segregates bikes. And why not mandatory bike licenses to help fund it??? I see where the Minneapolis Police Federation has endorsed Republican Tim Pawlenty for Governor. http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/4012065.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp Does anyone recall any recent union endorsements for a Republican candidate for statewide office? Bill Dooley Kenny I think some of these public unions have a history of endorsing Republicans. I suppose it comes from a feeling that they are law 'n order politicians, people who are slow to question any action by those in authority. Each time we discuss and debate issues, especially the cost of local government, it is important to maintain perspective - we are serving the same number of people that we did 80 years ago. Vicky Heller Any connection with Heller-Seagal of Slab City fame? Anyway, so yes we are doing that. So? There are forces that fight against increased density, even when it could lead to better economy. We've never bothered to really understand WHAT makes multi-unit housing prone to more crime. So, there just isnt any room for more population, especially when you have laws that say people have to be RELATED to share a dwelling. I wonder if the real estate lobby got that one in. = Jim Mork Longfellow Neighborhood Minneapolis Discussion (With No Daily Limits) FOR RESIDENTS ONLY At: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mplscivicdiscuss/?yguid=66524673 Subscribe Today! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Michael Atherton: A Brilliant Mind Among The Addlepated
On Thu, 2002-09-05 at 14:43, JIM GRAHAM wrote: have an interest in Minneapolis. Pam Taylor is another such, who does not presently live in Minneapolis, but has a commitment and Interest in Minneapolis. Both of these ladies contribute greatly to OUR List Ditto. I also primarily only work in Minneapolis, but I still have an interest in Minneapolis affairs and how things work. I am still a stakeholder in things, even if I don't happen to directly pay taxes. (except for those extra taxes on stuff I buy down there and food, right? .5 % or something?) I do commute through downtown Minneapolis every workday. -- Scott Dier [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ringworld.org/ coon rapids, home umn, east bank, work ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Bikes, Busses, Cars, and Public Health
On Fri, 2002-09-06 at 09:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in heavily-trafficed areas the right to put limits on the amount of traffic and pollution they are willing to tolerate in their neighborhood. Better yet, why not just have a 'use fee' via gas taxes. Therefore, people with the least efficient and most detrimental habits get taxed equally throughout the state and not just in Minneapolis. I'm not convinced the local public health benefits of such an economic backpressure are worth keeping to one area. Of course, increasing the gas tax to help fund specific multi-modal transit programs and road construction costs might have the same effect. [hah, not.] Also, home and property values really do reflect the 'quality of living' that some people experience. Its a icky fact of the way things get priced out. Not in my [front,back]yard effects are really at work here, I fear. [Note: I live 50 feet or so away from highway 10 in coon rapids. No privacy wall, just some trees and some privacy fencing, this stuff was built after the road went through. And before anyone goes but thats out in the outer 'burbs, theres no traffic out there... yes, there is. The 3-2 lane narrowing is just near here. Traffic regularly gets backed up at rush hour.] -- Scott Dier [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ringworld.org/ coon rapids, home umn, east bank, work daily bus rider ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
