Re: [Mpls] Hennepin Stronghold? Maybe. Major Candidate? Maybe Not or Putting the Green Vote into Perspective
Joseph, thanks for providing these figures. Hennepin County -Ken Pentel 2,130 -Leslie Davis 2,990 -Ole Savior 3,633 Statewide -Ken Pentel 5,388 -Leslie Davis 22,157 -Ole Savior 25,205 I wonder how many of those votes for Ole Savior were actually not votes for Moe. I knew of people who voted the DFL ticket but didn't want Moe, so they voted for his opposition--not even reading to see who the opposition was. Susan Maricle formerly of Folwell now of Bruno, MN __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Hennepin Stronghold? Maybe. Major Candidate? Maybe Not or Putting the Green Vote into Perspective
Folks, this thread is not Minneapolis specific. In this case, Hennepin County and the guv's race are too broad for this local list. David Brauer List manager (posting from another address while my home DSL is down) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Sustainable, green Minneapolis?
Annie Young wrote: ... with Mayor Rybak's Green Initiatives and a deep rooted commitment that seems to be rising up around sustainability issues (key to the Green Platform) throughout this City, in another decade Minneapolis may truly be Green in more ways than one Avidor: Annie, is the 35W Access Project going to help make Minneapolis a sustainable, green city ? Ken Avidor 8th Ward ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING problems on Bloomington Ave South
FOR RESIDENTS CONCERNED ABOUT THE CRIME PROBLEMS ON AND AROUND BLOOMINGTON AVENUE FROM LT. KRIS ARNESON THIRD PRECINCT Come and meet with the command staff of the Minneapolis Police Department, business owners and concerned neighbors. We'll go beyond the usual complaints to work on solutions together. TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17TH 6:00 P.M. ALL NATIONS CHURCH 22ND BLOOMINGTON AVENUE SOUTH FOR MORE INFORMATION, CALL LT. ARNESON, (612)673-5788 OR EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shawn Lewis, Field Neighborhood -- __ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Schools from the Outside Looking In
Since I've been labeled a school critic by the Minneapolis media (rather and a school reformer), I thought that I might as well live up to my label. Other than the devastating effects on the education of children of color, White middle-class voters in South might wonder what other negative effects might result from an uninformed politically oriented DFL dominated school board. I believe that there are many far reaching effects on Minneapolis that go beyond the schools. Consider how parents perceive the city when considering moving to this area. Below are links that home buyers are given when doing a real estate search in the Metro aera. Edina http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613309001.gif Inver Grove Heights http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613917001.gif Minneapolis http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613721001.gif Where would you move your family? Where would your property taxes, your volunteer efforts, and energies go? This is the kind of choice that my family will face in four years. Michael Atherton Prospect Park ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Schools from the Outside Looking In
Michael writes: Below are links that home buyers are given when doing a real estate search in the Metro aera. Edina http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613309001.gif Inver Grove Heights http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613917001.gif Minneapolis http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613721001.gif Where would you move your family? Where would your property taxes, your volunteer efforts, and energies go? This is the kind of choice that my family will face in four years. Michael, I'm glad you included Inver Grove Heights here. My brother-in-law is a fifth grade teacher in that system; he and my sister moved out recently for many reasons: rampant development had turned their dead-end street into a highway, meanwhile a REAL highway was built two houses away. Airport noise is increasing, etc. The problem with the suburbs is that they can change out from under you. But perhaps the most damaging thing was the school system. IGH is a classic case of Myron Orfield's warning about the perilous inner-ring suburb: the population of poor kids is exploding, and the aging population of IGH - a tax-base-poor locality - has repeatedly rejected school funding referenda until one finally passed on the third or fouth try this year. More than most places, funding have not kept up with the challenges from a changing student body. I'm sure my brother-in-law would have fled IGH schools long ago, but can't for several reasons: 1. His union seniority (he's in his 50s) won't transfer to another public district) 2. Private schools don't pay enough and 3. The kids in IGH really do need him. But I would say anyone who picks IGH over Minneapolis based on a website like this would do a better job of vetting statistics. David Brauer King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Hennepin Stronghold? Maybe. Major Candidate? Maybe Not or Putting the Green Vote into Perspective
Ole was someone I once supervised. The idea that he got 25,000 votes simply floors me. But then how many did Sharon Anderson get, even though she's been in the news enough for people to know better. --- Joseph Barisonzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List, It's been my impression that Minneapolis is the stronghold/beachhead of the Green Party in Minnesota. I looked for Ken Pentel's voting results to test this. While I haven't added up a Minneapolis breakdown of the gubernatorial totals yet, I did find Hennepin County's totals easily. Comparing Mr. Pentel's Hennepin County total (2,130) with his statewide total (5,388), I calculated that Ken got 39.5% of his votes from Hennepin County, even though Hennepin only has about 25% of the state's population. There is another set of facts that are far more interesting. Democratic candidate Ole Savior and Republican Candidate Leslie Davis both outpolled Ken Pentel in Hennepin (3633 for Ole, 2990 for Leslie). The news for Ken is worse statewide. Ole and Leslie each got over four times as many votes as Ken. (25,205 for Ole, 22,157 for Leslie) Nothing against Ken nor the Greens for stirring the pot, but getting obliterated by Ole Savior brings the term major candidate into perspective. It also raises pragmatic political question about intent, purpose and self-delusions. Joseph Barisonzi Lyndale, Ward 10 Minneapolis Hennepin County -Ken Pentel 2,130 -Leslie Davis 2,990 -Ole Savior 3,633 Statewide -Ken Pentel 5,388 -Leslie Davis 22,157 -Ole Savior 25,205 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Schools from the Outside Looking In
Michael: The source is eNeighborhoods. Why are we supposed to jump thru their hoops. What exactly did you do to check their credibility. See, this is what bothers me about your campaign. It seems the research is shallow. My niece graduated from South high school within the last decade. She was a success in college, including running her own business while she was in school. The Minneapolis School District presented no problem to her learning. If it was so bad, as you maintain, how come she didn't find it slow going? Perhaps people who have trouble in the Minneapolis schools have trouble throughout their lives. To top it all, my niece lived in a single-parent household. Even with that drawback, she was an academic and social success. One of the TROUBLES with school critiques is that they are unable or unwilling to look at the failures and really find out WHY they failed. Michael is merely assuming the school caused it. But this isn't something you can analyze by making such assumptions. Michael, ,do you REALIZE that the period of decline abuot which you are concerned is precisely the time when parents were a generation given a lifetime of brainwashing by TV. Couldn't I legitimately decide that TV is at fault? Jim Mork (Cooper) --- Michael Atherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I've been labeled a school critic by the Minneapolis media (rather and a school reformer), I thought that I might as well live up to my label. Other than the devastating effects on the education of children of color, White middle-class voters in South might wonder what other negative effects might result from an uninformed politically oriented DFL dominated school board. I believe that there are many far reaching effects on Minneapolis that go beyond the schools. Consider how parents perceive the city when considering moving to this area. Below are links that home buyers are given when doing a real estate search in the Metro aera. Edina http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613309001.gif Inver Grove Heights http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613917001.gif Minneapolis http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613721001.gif Where would you move your family? Where would your property taxes, your volunteer efforts, and energies go? This is the kind of choice that my family will face in four years. Michael Atherton Prospect Park ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Schools from the Outside Looking In
What David fails to face up to is what Michael first pointed out. The gloom and doom of IGH is producing better educated kids then the lab experiment know as MPS.Those test scores don't lie. MPS is not keeping up, period. People read those scores and make decisions. Intelligent people are supposed to get the best information possible and make educated decisions based on them. The MPS Teachers Union was the leading opponent of such testing, scoring and publishing. The last thing they wanted was to have their students and results compared to others. Or to have parents and voters figure how much(little) they were getting for the dollars that were being spent. The MPS-Ed Minnesota(and predecessors)-School Boards, Admins fought tooth and nail throughout the Carlson years to prevent testing, scoring and publishing the results. The Educational-Industrial-Complex of Metro based Teachers fought a 1812 style fighting retreat to Moscow. They reargaurded every step of the way. The problem was there was no Borodino or Moscow waiting for the those in favor of testing, scoring, and publishing in a meaningful way. Carlson and those in favor of providing more information to the consumer won. Now the results are in. And it makes the city schools look like a wreck. Huge portions of the city school kids are being left behind by those who swear to help them the most. For those of you who didn't get the historical comparisons of the last two paragraphs, that's too bad. Fault your schoolboard, admin, teachers. The reformers are being called names, accused of wife beating, or generally sexist. Cassandra never had it this bad. (For those of you who do not know who Cassandra was, that's too bad) I guess another large portion of MPS's kids will have to be sacrificed to please all who make a living off the kids. Another generation of kids futures jeopardized because their educators,officials,civic leaders were mad at white suburban people who tend to vote republican. Earlier this month we debated what would make the Harrison neighborhood a better place for mortgage qualified homeowners and builders? Well take a look at the info provided by Michael, and get to work. Oh and by the way. Don't do the typical thing like banning Edina Realty from publishing those nasty little facts. Or leaning on the MLS. Craig Miller Former Fultonite Who exercised school choice by moving. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: David Brauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Atherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Mpls] Schools from the Outside Looking In Michael writes: Below are links that home buyers are given when doing a real estate search in the Metro aera. Edina http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613309001.gif Inver Grove Heights http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613917001.gif Minneapolis http://cobrands.eneighborhoods.com/neighborhoodgifs/824613721001.gif Where would you move your family? Where would your property taxes, your volunteer efforts, and energies go? This is the kind of choice that my family will face in four years. Michael, I'm glad you included Inver Grove Heights here. My brother-in-law is a fifth grade teacher in that system; he and my sister moved out recently for many reasons: rampant development had turned their dead-end street into a highway, meanwhile a REAL highway was built two houses away. Airport noise is increasing, etc. The problem with the suburbs is that they can change out from under you. But perhaps the most damaging thing was the school system. IGH is a classic case of Myron Orfield's warning about the perilous inner-ring suburb: the population of poor kids is exploding, and the aging population of IGH - a tax-base-poor locality - has repeatedly rejected school funding referenda until one finally passed on the third or fouth try this year. More than most places, funding have not kept up with the challenges from a changing student body. I'm sure my brother-in-law would have fled IGH schools long ago, but can't for several reasons: 1. His union seniority (he's in his 50s) won't transfer to another public district) 2. Private schools don't pay enough and 3. The kids in IGH really do need him. But I would say anyone who picks IGH over Minneapolis based on a website like this would do a better job of vetting statistics. David Brauer King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] The Greening of Minneapolis
List/David: The topic of Greens does encompass many boundaries. So Ill try to make it Minneapolis-specific. When we moved to Bruno (work with me, people), we chose a house made of cordwood. Unlike log homes, this style of construction uses short pieces of wood set lengthwise in cement. The resulting housing is cost-efficient. (Think affordable housing in Minneapolis). The thick walls are energy efficient as well as noise reducing. (Think houses by the airport.) The house itself looks like its made of stone. (Think architectural gems in Kenwood and on Wirth Parkway.) People driving down the road have pulled up in our driveway to scope it out. The trouble is, it took all summer to close on the house because the bank had to wait for a comparable property to sell. (We closed one day, moved the next all because we refused to buy a cookie-cutter crackerbox.) Putting the Greens in power, I believe, would be the first step to making sustainable housing economically viable: tax incentives for builders, that kind of thing. There are people who cant afford the $170,000 it takes to buy a starter home, and people who cant afford the one million bucks it takes to buy a luxury cabin. Sustainable housing can satisfy both parties. What can the Greens in Minneapolis do, if anything, to get the ball rolling? Susan Maricle formerly of Folwell now of Bruno, MN who encourages everyone bummed over Gregory Grays defeat to write in his name come November (David, if this is my third post, Ill sit out until tomorrow.) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] MPS spends over $10,000 per student per year
The Minneapolis Public School system spends $500 million each year. My memory is that the school year consists of 157 working days. I am not sure about this, but I remember reading that its the shortest school year in the country. The student enrollment as of December 2001 was 47,726 (down from 48,991 in 2000.) I haven't seen anyone on the list break down the school census. How many of the enrolled children are special needs? We need a definition of special needs. How many live in poverty? We need a definition of poverty. How many speak English well enough to benefit from attending class? Separately, how many Minneapolis children are home schooled? How many are enrolled in private schools? It seems to me that we need to know these answers before specific solutions can be discussed. For example, if language is a major barrier to learning, that problem should be solved before a child starts a normal set of classes. What good does it do to sit in a math class, if the student doesn't understand what the teacher is saying? I personally don't think we need licensed teachers to bring kids up to speed in basic English. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Primary vote totals
For comparisons sake the rough statewide vote totals for the 4 major parties in descending order, DFL-225,000; Republican-175,000; Independence-40,000, Green 6,000 (analysis of these turnouts would be appropriate on another discussion forum). Scott Persons Lyndale It is my understanding that the DFL historically has gotten four votes to every one Republican vote, or 75%. Now math is definitely not my forte, but it looks to me like there were 7 or 8 Republican votes for every 10 DFL votes cast in the primary. Question: Is there a big Republican surge in the offing? Or is this typical of primary vs general elections? Dave McCoy Seward ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Schools from the Outside Looking In
In a message dated Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:20:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The MPS-Ed Minnesota(and predecessors)-School Boards, Admins fought tooth and nail throughout the Carlson years to prevent testing, scoring and publishing the results. The Educational-Industrial-Complex of Metro based Teachers fought a 1812 style fighting retreat to Moscow. They reargaurded every step of the way. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Schools from the Outside Looking In
In a message dated Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:20:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The MPS-Ed Minnesota(and predecessors)-School Boards, Admins fought tooth and nail throughout the Carlson years to prevent testing, scoring and publishing the results. The Educational-Industrial-Complex of Metro based Teachers fought a 1812 style fighting retreat to Moscow. They reargaurded every step of the way. As Jimmy Stewart was famed for saying, Now just a darned minute...! I was on the Minneapolis School Board from 1992 to 2000 and I did NOT oppose testing, nor did most of my colleagues, notably Len Biernat, Judy Farmer, Ann Kaari, and Louis King, nor did Superintendents Peter Hutchinson or Carol Johnson, nor did Minneapolis Teachers Federation President Louise Sundin. Nor did I attempt to conceal test results from the public at any time. Stick to the facts please, and be careful about sweeping and inflammatory generalizations that have little basis in fact. Ann Berget Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Atherton the emperor's new clothes
List, I think it is unfair and untrue to say that Micheal Atherton fails to assign any of the blame for failing urban schools on parents, neighborhoods, and urban students. I agree with Micheal Atherton that standardized test scores measure, however imperfectly, the quality of instruction. I think you have to give a school most of the credit when 95% of its students show more than one years growth in math and reading for every full year they are enrolled, and where 95% of the 8th graders pass the Minnesota Basic Standards tests on the first try. And I think you have to assign most of the blame to a school system where half of the kids show less than one-half years growth in math and reading for each full year they are enrolled, and where only about 40% of the 8th graders pass one or both of the Minnesota Basic Standards exams in math and reading. However, I don't agree with Micheal Atherton's diagnosis and treatment plan for the Minneapolis Public Schools. I don't think the problem is the liberal levelers (who are not in charge of the Minneapolis Public Schools, by the way). The liberal policies that have been tossed aside in urban centers with large or rapidly growing minority populations during the past 20 years actually worked pretty well, if your idea of a school policy that works well is one that reduces the test score gap in math and reading without holding back the high achievers. To me, Micheal Atherton's diagnosis and treatment plan looks quite similar to that of the current administration of the Minneapolis. Atherton and the current board say that urban kids need a different kind of education than suburban kids because of their home and neighborhood environments. The Board is for ability-grouping, Atherton is for 'true ability-grouping,' Atherton and the board say they can improve students achievement with parent involvement programs. Atherton and Shapiro also dismiss the idea that teaching experience has much (if anything) to do with instructional effectiveness). The reason that the Strib and the MPS administration don't like Micheal Atherton is that he fails to notice the emperor's new clothes, I mean the 'progress' that the district is making. In that respect Micheal Atherton is making a positive and necessary contribution to the discussion. -Doug Mann, King Field, the new 8th ward Mann for School Board Committee http://educationright.tripod.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] rumor mongering or why I don't read the pulse
#34;A police officer accused of intentionally pepper spraying a child is to be punished - if he or she were to go searching through a crowd passing by people one by one until they found the child and without provocation #34;maced#34; the child.#34; no police officer pepper sprayed a child. no police officer was accused of pepper spraying a child. one poster on another list did accuse the police of pointing the pepper spray at a child, and this rumor was maliciously reported on this list as fact, and now it is being embellished and repeated again. On a post to this list a reporter for the pulse made a similar claim about police pepper spraying a child. I'm paraphrasing when she said we should be mad about the #34;idea#34; of the police pepper spraying a child. This is rumor mongering and it is a too bad because it takes away from the credibility of those who are working to get better oversight of police actions in minneapolis. mark wilde windom park __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Household Hazardous Waste Collection
Hennepin County is holding fall household hazardous waste collection events in the City of Minneapolis. The first is Sept. 12-14, 9 a.m. - 4 p.m,. at Minneapolis Public Works Snelling Ave. Garage, 3607 E 44th St. A thermometer exchange is being conducted in conjunction with the event. Bring in a mercury fever thermometer and get a free digital thermometer! Details can be found on the county's web site, http://www.co.hennepin.mn.us/environmental/household/NeighFallEvents.html You can also call 612-348-3777 for information. Amy Roering Hennepin County Environmental Services Minneapolis ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] MPS spends over $10,000 per student per year
Regarding students who come in not speaking English, my understanding (which may be out of date) is that they start at English as a second language school, where they focus on learning English but also learn general subject matter. In the mid 90's, a friend adopted an eleven-yaar-old girl from Guatemala who didn't understand English and had never been to school before (probably not an unusual situation for these students). After a year in the English as a second language school, her daughter was ready switch to a regular school at a grade a year below her age level. Two things struck me at the time: her daughter must be fairly bright and the program must be fairly good. I don't understand why English as a second language would lend itself to unlicensed teachers any more than math (or say, teaching French to American-born kids). You may have acquired fluency in your second or third languages with ease, but not everyone can do this. Having gone to Neederlands als en tweede taal classes as an adult in the Netherlands, I have the impression that this is a fairly specialized branch of teaching. Children generally have an easier time at learning languages than adults do, but that doesn't mean it's a piece of cake for all of them. And remember, we are expecting the students to learn English well enough to do well on all those standardized tests everyone wants so much. That means we want them to function in English at a fairly high level. It's a much bigger task than learning to do grocery shopping or order dinner in a second language. Rosalind Nelson Bancroft Victoria Heller wrote: For example, if language is a major barrier to learning, that problem should be solved before a child starts a normal set of classes. What good does it do to sit in a math class, if the student doesn't understand what the teacher is saying? I personally don't think we need licensed teachers to bring kids up to speed in basic English. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] police bashing, racism democracy
Though there always truth in calling for every individual to take personal responsibility for his or her own actions choices, and I believe that America is in the midst of an epidemic of blaming others for one's problems, I believe this argument is a red herring in the larger debate about police conduct and accountability. We hold police to a higher standard by definition. There are different levels of reaction to a dangerous situation. The most basic is to protect one's self at all costs - even if that means spraying bullets at bystanders as well as an attacker. We do not accept this level of reaction even from the general public. The next level is to make sure only the person creating the threat is engaged, such as a store clerk shooting a robber in self defense while customers are in the store. There is no concern at this level for how badly the wrongdoer is harmed. This is still below the minimum level of reaction that the law expects from everyone. The next level is to use appropriate force in dealing with the wrongdoer - in other words, it is not acceptable for a person to shoot another in response to a slap on the face. This is the bare minimum expected from our citizens. (Think through the legal standards for the defenses of self-defense or defense of another person.) The higher level is the use of appropriate force to stop the danger WITH THE CALCULATION OF HOW TO USE THE LEAST FORCE AND CAUSE THE LEAST HARM. This is what we expect as a society from our trained fighters - whether they are martial arts experts who beat the tar out of a guy in a bar fight, or security or police officers. Or at least, that's what we're supposed to expect out of police officers. I will submit that this standard is slipping out of use thanks to pressure our police who don't want to be held to so high a duty. Why do we hold our trained fighters to a higher standard? Because they are CAPABLE through training and experience to control their responses. They are armed with additional killing tools and abilities, and in exchange we require higher responsibility in handling those tools. This is a matter of civic trust. We fund, train, give special dispensations to do violence, and arm to the teeth our police - a situation perfect for allowing them to become the unstoppable brute squad that puts terror into the heart of every citizen. But we also give them a special trust - we require that they do not become that brute squad, and instead do everything in their power to work for justice, civic peace, and protection of ALL the people. That means protection, to their best ability, of suspects, people in custody, and those in the middle of violence or unrest. When we place the blame on a person who reacts angrily to a police officer for putting a child nearby in harm's way, we are giving excuses to a police officer for how he/she reacts. An innocent in the way is an innocent in the way. It is the officer's duty, period, to not harm that innocent. Sometimes, inevitably, even the best officers and training will not be enough to avoid an accident. But that hasn't been the pattern shown by recent evidence in Minneapolis. There aren't that many mere accidents. I'd like to remind everyone of another accident where officers got off scott free. In May, 1985 in Philadelphia, hundreds of officers massed to arrest 7 militant members of MOVE on weapons violations and other serious charges. They evacuated area residents. So far, so good. Then, they pumped 10,000 rounds of ammunition into the area. When that wasn't enough to get the suspects to surrender, they dropped a tear gas bomb through the roof. The house caught fire, and police decided to let it go. 63 homes were burned to the ground, leaving 250 people homeless and 11 MOVE members dead, including 5 children. These cops had a legitimate reason to arrest several suspects, but somewhere along the way the let themselves lose sight of their responsibility. In their excitement to get the bad guys apparently at all cost, they first lost sight of the mandate to minimize harm (such as not burning down whole blocks of homes, especially when there might be people still in the area). They lost sight of using appropriate force - unless you will argue that burning everyone to death in the area is somehow in line with getting 7 people to leave a building. This tragedy wasn't the fault of the MOVE members for having kids in the house. It was the fault of the police and city leadership for planning the attack, and for approving escalations rather than taking a breath and thinking through where they had made mistakes what would be the wise next step. It was also the fault of the police on the ground who didn't get a clue that the situation was out of hand, and ask themselves their leadership if continuing in this vein was exercising good judgment. Even in this extreme example, NONE of the responsible parties was ever indicted. That says something
Re: [Mpls] MPS spends over $10,000 per student per year
Rosalind Nelson wrote: Regarding students who come in not speaking English, my understanding (which may be out of date) is that they start at English as a second language school, where they focus on learning English but also learn general subject matter. WM: This year Richard Green Central School has received a healthy grant to pilot a program for Spanish speaking K-1 kids. They will do the first year in Spanish, learning to read in Spanish and do whatever else K-1 kids do also in Spanish. Next year they will begin the switch to English, so that by 3rd grade they'll be English imersed, as I understand it. According to the Principal of Richard Green, research shows that kids do better sooner when started out in this way and the switch to English is smoother and faster. It makes sense to me. WizardMarks, Central ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] rumor mongering or why I don't read the pulse (was police bashing,racism democracy)
*sigh* First of all, to be clear where I stand, I am not against the police and I am not against the community. I believe that there are people on both sides who are doing their best and I believe that there are people on both sides who are causing harm, lying, hiding the truth, and creating distortion. A major portion of the reason I want more transparency is so that the truth can be more easily ascertained to help the victims on both sides of the issue. I feel very badly for the officers who are doing their best to do their job well and are falsely accused of brutality. There are people who will believe those accusations because they've either experienced the real thing or have heard enough stories of others who have. I feel very badly for civilians who are mistreated but their claims are not believed because people assume the officers involved must be telling the truth and that the civilians must be criminals and therefore their testimony is considered unbelievable. These victims exist on both sides of the issue. It has been suggested off list that I become involved with Communities United Against Police Brutality. I would like to become involved in a process to improve relationships between the police and the community, but unfortunately, I've seen a few press releases and statements by CUAPB that automatically assume fault on the part of the police and automatically assume that any civilian stories are correct. I say automatically assume because they are made before anyone has actually investigated the issue. This does not help the relationship between the community and the police. Perhaps if there were an organization called People United For Police-Community Cooperation ... Now to the resurgence of the labor day discussion: On Wednesday, the statement was made (based, I presume, on my original post) that: why are some posters NOT upset by the idea of pepper-spraying a BABY???Isn't it understandable a great-grandmother--or any other rrelative--would have been upset tried to stop it? What I originally said and have maintained since was that a report was made to Indymedia in which the author spoke with one of the people in the house who stated that (paraphrased): The great grandmother kicked an officer in the shins after he pointed pepper spray at a three month old child. The other mention I made of this was in the questions I was asking about the occurance. It should also be noted that I made the post asking if anyone here had further information regarding the incident (which I got to an extent) and attempting to highlight the need for more transparency. I knew that on Indymedia, there were going to be people who took the report as truth, but I made the mistake of assuming that here, people would understand (based on my copious qualifiers) that these were allegations that had been made and that I was looking for more information. The question in specific was: If the report is accurate in describing the level of force used, isn't this a bit extreme? Would pointing chemical irritants at a baby be considered provocation? I wasn't there, so I don't know what actually happened, but I know I'd be pretty upset if I saw someone pointing pepper spray at a baby. Today, another post (in response to Wednesday's post) stated that: no police officer pepper sprayed a child. no police officer was accused of pepper spraying a child. one poster on another list did accuse the police of pointing the pepper spray at a child, and this rumor was maliciously reported on this list as fact, and now it is being embellished and repeated again. The person who posted is absolutely correct that there were no allegations of an officer pepper spraying a child. There were allegations made (and posted here as allegations, not as known fact) that an officer did point pepper spray as a child. I thought I made it clear in the discussions around this last week, but the statement this rumor was maliciously reported on this list as fact is inaccurate. I reported an allegation, I did not report it maliciously, and I did not report it as fact. It should be made absolutely clear that no one has accused the police officers of lying. Reviewing the original Indymedia report (which has one known inaccuracy - the type of citation issued) and the police report, there are no contradictions, therefore what is known to have been stated by the police is not being challenged. Had I known at that time how to get it, I would have included the police report in the original post (I did look for it online but was not able to figure out how to get it). The problem is that there is not enough information from the police. The original purpose of the officers were to cite the people at the party with a noise violation. That escalated into three obstruction of justice charges. The charges allege that the people were trying to prevent an arrest. Who's arrest? The person who was going to receive the ticket was not arrested, so it can be
[Mpls] party discussion
I've been following a discussion about a party where the police where accused of, among other things, macing a baby. I was able to locate the case and read the reports related to the incident. What actually happened was that police were called by several neighbors about a party with loud music. Police reported that they could hear the music a half a block away from the house as they drove up. They talked with the occupants of the house and told them to turn down the music as it was disturbing the neighbors. The occupants turned down the music. As soon as the police left, the music was turned back up again - this according to the neighbors who had to call 911 again. The police returned and again asked them to turn down the music and warned them that they would have to make arrests if the music wasn't turned down and kept down. One of the occupants became belligerent, told the police that they could go ahead and arrest him because he wasn't going to turn down the music. When they attempted to arrest him the officers were attacked by several of the occupants. This attack included kicking and punching the officers. The crowd of people were maced when they came out of the house, surrounded the officers while they were attempting to make the arrests and appeared to be ready to attack also. They finally were able to take three people into custody and get the group calmed down. One of the arrested people agreed to calm the group down. For this the Officers gave that person a citation rather than take them into custody. No children were maced. Don Greeley Crime Prevention Specialist 3rd Precinct CCP/SAFE Minneapolis Police Dept. 217 So 3rd St. Mpls. MN. 55401-2139 (612) 673-3482 - (612) 673-3563 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report graffiti, possible housing code violations, etc http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/inspections If you would like to receive weekly crime stats for the Central Neighborhood address an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Most of us are about as happy as we make our minds to be. Abraham Lincoln ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] party discussion
Thank You! Is this the full report? If not, can I get a copy of it? This is quite a bit more information than was available on the public police report I got from City Hall. Also, how would one go about getting a report with this level of detail in the future? Thanks Again, - Jason Goray, Sheridan, NE. --- Greeley, Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been following a discussion about a party where the police where accused of, among other things, macing a baby. I was able to locate the case and read the reports related to the incident. What actually happened was that police were called by several neighbors about a party with loud music. Police reported that they could hear the music a half a block away from the house as they drove up. They talked with the occupants of the house and told them to turn down the music as it was disturbing the neighbors. The occupants turned down the music. As soon as the police left, the music was turned back up again - this according to the neighbors who had to call 911 again. The police returned and again asked them to turn down the music and warned them that they would have to make arrests if the music wasn't turned down and kept down. One of the occupants became belligerent, told the police that they could go ahead and arrest him because he wasn't going to turn down the music. When they attempted to arrest him the officers were attacked by several of the occupants. This attack included kicking and punching the officers. The crowd of people were maced when they came out of the house, surrounded the officers while they were attempting to make the arrests and appeared to be ready to attack also. They finally were able to take three people into custody and get the group calmed down. One of the arrested people agreed to calm the group down. For this the Officers gave that person a citation rather than take them into custody. No children were maced. Don Greeley Crime Prevention Specialist 3rd Precinct CCP/SAFE Minneapolis Police Dept. 217 So 3rd St. Mpls. MN. 55401-2139 (612) 673-3482 - (612) 673-3563 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report graffiti, possible housing code violations, etc http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/inspections If you would like to receive weekly crime stats for the Central Neighborhood address an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Most of us are about as happy as we make our minds to be. Abraham Lincoln ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Computers in Mpls Schools
At a party last weekend, I was told by a parent that the Minneapolis School District had eliminated all tech support for its Apple Macintosh computers as part of its recent budget cuts. Can a knowledgeable list member confirm or deny this? If true, it would IMHO be the very definition of false economy. This raises the larger question, addressed to the school board candidates, of the district's information technology policies. Nationwide, there has been a trend to standardize computers on the Microsoft Windows platform in education. I am curious if the District has a policy to standardize on Windows, and where the various candidates stand on the issue. I don't want to attach more importance to this issue than it deserves - teachers teach students, not computers, and the platform question is even one more step removed. And I'm sure I'm giving our esteemed List Manager a Maalox moment by potentially introducing the mother of all flame wars -- Mac v. PC -- to the Mpls Issues list. Nonetheless, inquiring minds want to know: what is the District's current policy on desktop operating systems (if it has one), and where do the school board candidates stand on the issue? Thanks Greg Abbott --- Greg Abbott Linden Hills 13th Ward --- ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] MSP Update: $14,000 per student per year ($700 million annually)
A fellow listmember sent me a note with the current numbers. I was using numbers that I read in the Pioneer Press last December. If the goal is to produce high quality results in a cost effective manner, it seems to me that the U of M could encourage its Education and Social Sciences students to teach kids to read and write English - for course credit of course. That way, at no additional cost, the children could hit the road running. It must be terribly frustrating to sit in a class without the foggiest notion about what's being said. It is also frustrating for the kids who do speak English. Valuable time and progress are sacrificed when the teacher continually stops and repeats the same information over and over. How is the teacher to know if her lesson has been imparted? I have been at public meetings that should take 40 minutes, expanded to 4 hours to allow for translations. In the end, no one really knows what was said. It's inefficient and very risky from a public policy standpoint. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Computers in Mpls Schools
Robert quickly hides his flame thrower in the bushes and tries to eliminate the maniacal gleam in his eye I hope this is not true Greg, it would be evidence that the School Board is making decisions based on the wrong criteria. Numerous studies have shown that the Mac platform has significantly lower operating costs for schools. Also, as far as I know educational software is heavily aimed at the Mac market. I can feel my hand reaching for my lighter so I'll stop before I drag my favorite flame war here. On Thursday, September 12, 2002, at 02:33 PM, Greg Abbott wrote: At a party last weekend, I was told by a parent that the Minneapolis School District had eliminated all tech support for its Apple Macintosh computers as part of its recent budget cuts. Can a knowledgeable list member confirm or deny this? If true, it would IMHO be the very definition of false economy. This raises the larger question, addressed to the school board candidates, of the district's information technology policies. Nationwide, there has been a trend to standardize computers on the Microsoft Windows platform in education. I am curious if the District has a policy to standardize on Windows, and where the various candidates stand on the issue. I don't want to attach more importance to this issue than it deserves - teachers teach students, not computers, and the platform question is even one more step removed. And I'm sure I'm giving our esteemed List Manager a Maalox moment by potentially introducing the mother of all flame wars -- Mac v. PC -- to the Mpls Issues list. Robert Schmid Central Neighborhood Candidate for Hennepin Soil Water Board, District 2 Green Party Endorsed ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Perfection
By no means wanting to be the only realist in this world, I hesitate to say that there are only two situations where 100% applies. I know that there are instances when we do not always have 100% sunny days. But 5 out of 7 ain't bad. If I can't get all of my home improvements done, I will still settle for what I can afford and what I do get done. If my doctor tells me that I am at about 99% of my optimum health, I will take it! If my dog catches 75% of the balls I throw him, he probably is not my dog. (bless his clumsy sole) If a farmer takes 1,000 eggs to the farmers market and only breaks 2, he has had a good trip. However if someone tells me that 2% of all arrests or citations in Minneapolis, involve some escalated format of confrontation, I will be satisfied. See - we tend to forget the mass amount of people that are processed through our fair city every day. Felons, drunks, speeders, 'perps' and any thing else you would care to imagine. If we look at the pure numbers and compare the totals, we will see that the old saying is true, a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. Conversely, how many good police actions do we want to ignore. I do not think that a police officer is entitled to special acknowledgment for doing his/her job. But what of the times they go out of their way to help save someone. We too easily dismiss these. Not use another cliche, but - one screw up wipes away a hundred 'atta boys'. Don Greeley gave us the report for an incident that many have quoted for the macing of a child. Can we see that we jump to conclusions at times? Do we perhaps pass judgment too soon? Is this not a form of prejudice against anyone in uniform? What do we think when we pass by a house/car/park or whatever, when a police officer is engaged in talking to someone or checking their credentials? Do you think, Well I hope they don't beat the snot out of that civilian!. I too hold my public servants to a higher standard. However I do know that so do they. The police have said time and time again that they would sooner have a bad cop off the force then deal with him/her. That person makes the rest have a tougher time doing their jobs. I am not asking the list to roll over and accept any one blowing off their civil liberties. I am only asking that we look at it from a perspective that takes into consideration all the numbers. I dare someone to look at one days arrests, calls and services throughout the whole city. Then take all of that and multiply it by 365 and then extract the number of cases of violent confrontation. What is the exact outcome? An officer sworn to protect the President by the name of Bradey was hit by a felons bullet. He regained 60% of his bodily functions. He was quoted as saying, sometimes you have to be happy with what you got. If I have to live in a world where 98% of the time the police do their job with little or no mistakes - I can live with that. So now can we cure the rest of societies ills? Sincerely, Valdis Rozentals Saint Anthony West PS - the two 100%'s in life are ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Family of hit-and-run victim now fears police (Article)
Family of hit-and-run victim now fears police By: Isaac Peterson, III Minnesota Spokesman-Recorder Originally posted 9/12/2002 Events following eight-year-old's injury by off-duty cop suggest official cover-up, retaliation Charon Dow says she moved to Minneapolis from Cincinnati for her children's survival. She brought her family here to start a business, get a better education for her children, and to get away from a brutal police force. What she got instead was a world of trouble. http://www.spokesman-recorder.com/news/default.asp Shawn Lewis, Field Neighborhood -- __ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] $14,000 per student per year - different data
Victoria Heller wrote: Subject: [Mpls] MSP Update: $14,000 per student per year ($700 million annually) Directly from the Mpls Public Schools website for the 2000 - 2001 school year: Number of Schools (fall 2001) Early Childhood Schools 1 Elementary Schools 45 K-8 Schools 23 Interdistrict Schools 2 Middle Schools 8 High Schools 7 Special Education Schools 6 Special Sites/Alternatives 7 Contract Alternatives/Charters 38 Total 137 Student Enrollment* PreKindergarten 399 High Five/Kindergarten 4,334 Grades 1-5 20,155 Grades 6-8 10,766 Grades 9-12 13,791 Total 49,445 *Does not include charter school enrollment. Student Demographics African American 45% Asian American 15% Hispanic American 9% Native American 4% White 27% English language learners 22% Eligible for free or reduced price lunch 66% Student mobility 46% Students receiving special education 12% Average Class Size 19 students in grades K-2 25 students in grades 3-8 Average of 26 students in grades 9-12 Budget (2000-01) General Fund $422,274,672 Referendum Fund 40,488,077 Food Services 16,759,236 Community Education 16,390,097 Building Construction 77,600,000 Debt 47,222,404 Other 41,948,956 Total 662,683,442 Per Pupil Spending $9,692 State per pupil $6,695 Carol Becker Longfellow ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Fw: $14,000 per student per year - more
Victoria Heller wrote: Subject: [Mpls] MSP Update: $14,000 per student per year ($700 million annually) This data from MPS states: Per Pupil Spending $9,692 State per pupil $6,695 Eligible for free or reduced price lunch 66% Students receiving special education 12% Clarifying Carol Becker Longfellow ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] $14,000 per student per year - different data
Vicki Heller has her facts straight. Your information on the budget and student enrollment is out of date (2000-2001 figures). The district's revenue for this year is about $700 million, despite the fact that Student enrollment has decrease by a few thousand since the 2000-2001 school year (the district expected most of this loss of 'market share' to the private schools and suburban public schools. I have no idea how the district came up with the figure of $9,692 per pupil spending for the 2000-2001 school year. Total spending ($662,683,442) divided by number of students (49,445) equals $13,402 and change. Contrary to what you may have heard from the district, revenues for the MPS have increased, despite falling enrollments. On top of the elimination of positions for teachers and support staff resulting from falling enrollment, the district is cutting about $30 million for non-management payroll, transportation, etc and is planning to increase the administrative budget by about the same amount. -Doug Mann, kingfield, new 8th ward Mann for school board committee http://educationright.tripod.com In a message dated 9/12/2002 6:13:36 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Victoria Heller wrote: [snip] Subject: [Mpls] MSP Update: $14,000 per student per year ($700 million annually) Student Enrollment* PreKindergarten 399 High Five/Kindergarten 4,334 Grades 1-5 20,155 Grades 6-8 10,766 Grades 9-12 13,791 Total 49,445 *Does not include charter school enrollment. [snip] Directly from the Mpls Public Schools website for the 2000 - 2001 school year Budget (2000-01) General Fund $422,274,672 Referendum Fund 40,488,077 Food Services 16,759,236 Community Education 16,390,097 Building Construction 77,600,000 Debt 47,222,404 Other 41,948,956 Total 662,683,442 Per Pupil Spending $9,692 State per pupil $6,695 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Family of hit-and-run victim now fears police (Article)
Shawn Lewis posted an article URL regarding Charon Dow's allegation of police cover-up. In the story detailing the incident, which took place in February of this year, Dow claims an inebriated Minneapolis police officer, John Brodin, ran over her son Malik , breaking his legs. http://www.spokesman-recorder.com/news/default.asp Chris reponds: Presumably the cover-up accounts for the fact that no references to Dow, her son Malik, or Brodin can be found anywhere else on the web, nor in the Star Tribune or City Pages archive. Pretty amazing, considering how fast rumors fly. A story as sensationalistic as this would be hard to suppress; even the whiff of such an allegation would bring the press hounds out. Is there any earlier corroboration of these charges elsewhere? Alternative presses? Anybody know? If not, why has Dow waited several months to make her allegations public? The story raises more questions than it answers. Beckwith Ward 6 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Perfection
On 9/12/02 4:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Don Greeley gave us the report for an incident that many have quoted for the macing of a child. Can we see that we jump to conclusions at times? Do we perhaps pass judgment too soon? Is this not a form of prejudice against anyone in uniform? What do we think when we pass by a house/car/park or whatever, when a police officer is engaged in talking to someone or checking their credentials? Do you think, Well I hope they don't beat the snot out of that civilian!. Actually, the folks who were jumping to conclusions were those accusing Jason Goray of claiming a child was maced. He merely asked questions and others put words in his mouth. I too hold my public servants to a higher standard. However I do know that so do they. The police have said time and time again that they would sooner have a bad cop off the force then deal with him/her. That person makes the rest have a tougher time doing their jobs. Really? Then why exactly is Richard Sauro still a Minneapolis police officer? If this were true, I would think pressure from his peers who no longer want to deal with him would have been enough to send him on his way. I am not asking the list to roll over and accept any one blowing off their civil liberties. I am only asking that we look at it from a perspective that takes into consideration all the numbers. I dare someone to look at one days arrests, calls and services throughout the whole city. Then take all of that and multiply it by 365 and then extract the number of cases of violent confrontation. What is the exact outcome? A large number, to be sure. However, there are those of us who feel any amount of abuse from police officers is too much, no matter how small the number of officers involved or what percentage of overall cases it represents. But for the sake of Valdis' argument, let's take a conservative guess and say there are 100 arrests, calls and services throughout Minneapolis in a day, which would mean 36,500 in a year. Two percent of 36,500 is over 700 cases of abuse by officers per year. Even if we raised our standard to say only two-tenths of a percent were acceptable, that's still over 70 cases of abuse. That's far too many for me to stomach. An officer sworn to protect the President by the name of Bradey was hit by a felons bullet. He regained 60% of his bodily functions. He was quoted as saying, sometimes you have to be happy with what you got. And the point of this is? I suppose that if I get stopped and become a statistic of the MPD, I should be happy if I only just get knocked around a little bit instead of shot? Come on! If I have to live in a world where 98% of the time the police do their job with little or no mistakes - I can live with that. So now can we cure the rest of societies ills? Maybe Valdis can live with it, but those who are suffering that abuse should not have to and that's the point that our elected officials, our chief and those who contend the police can do no wrong need to get. And that's why I hope Minneapolis City Council will vote Friday to accept the offer of federal mediation. As has been noted, it's free of charge to the city and Chief Robert Olson reportedly supports the idea so what do we have to lose? Mark Snyder Windom Park (59A) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] School and Police Issues
So where did Miss Vicky get those numbers of hers? Doug Mann: the district is cutting about $30 million for non-management payroll, transportation, etc and is planning to increase the administrative budget by about the same amount. One ASSUMES then Doug is going to question the need for such a huge administrative increase. I think I will, too. Mark Snyder: Then why exactly is Richard Sauro still a Minneapolis police officer? The simple answer is that the newly-replaced council members negotiated a contract that conceded a lot of rights to the Police Federation which were duly used to negate the decisions of police management. For that reason, I want future negotiations to make sure the police chief and the council can act to contain the loose cannons of the police force. Mark: Maybe Valdis can live with it, but those who are suffering that abuse should not have to and that's the point that our elected officials, our chief and those who contend the police can do no wrong need to get. And that's why I hope Minneapolis City Council will vote Friday to accept the offer of federal mediation. As has been noted, it's free of charge to the city and Chief Robert Olson reportedly supports the idea so what do we have to lose? Valdis cant live with it if the 2 percent means he ends up dead. These guys carry a lot of lethal power. We have to be really careful what we call a mistake. Jim Mork (Cooper) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
