[Mpls] Hey - what about the economic rewards of petroleum?
Robin Garwood laments the economic evils of petroleum. Here's the other side of the coin: Billions in tax revenue. Millions of jobs. Hefty dividend checks to stockholding widows and orphans. Gazillions of plastics, cosmetics, textiles. I suggest purchasing a few shares of Chevron-Texaco (CVX). By the way, CVX is heavily invested in ALTERNATIVE fuel technology. It owns 20% of Energy Conversion Devices (Nasdaq: ENER.) Log on to Hoovers.com and check out a few of our treasured American Industries. Bullish on America (and Minneapolis with some newfound discipline), Vicky Heller North Oaks ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Guthrie Land Sale: More fun with numbers.....
One acre of land contains 43,560 square feet. Last fall, Steve Cramer (then executive director of the MCDA) said that the land sale to the Guthrie involved no subsidies - it was a fair market value deal. 10 acres of the City's BEST RIVERFRONT LAND for $3 million. That was $6.79 per sq. ft. Now we ponder selling two parcels: Seven acres to the Guthrie for $4 million = $7.62 per square foot. Three acres to ? for $2.3 million = $5.68 per square foot. A Few Questions for Council Members (MCDA Commissioners): Minneapolis paid $50.00 per square foot for Target Store land. Why is Riverfront land so cheap? Why is there a discrepancy between the two prices: $7.62 vs. $5.68? The parcels are adjacent. How much did the City pay to acquire the land, and how long have we been holding it (off the tax rolls?) In other words, what was our COST - so we can calculate our LOSS. Lots of investors would LOVE to buy riverfront land at those prices: Where do we submit our bids? How will you choose the WINNERS? Eagerly awaiting a reply, Vicky Heller North Oaks and Cedar-Riverside (a stone's throw away from the site in question) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Guthrie Land Sale: More fun with numbers.....
I think your calculations are a little off: 10 acres = 435,600 sqft $3 million / 435,600 = $6.89 / sqft 7 acres = 304,920 sqft $4 million / 304,920 = $13.12 / sqft 3 acres = 130,680 sqft $2.3 million / 130,680 = $17.60 / sqft Your points about the difference vis-a-vis Target, the difference between the parcels, and particularly how long the 10 acres have been off the tax rolls are still interesting. Walt Cygan Keewaydin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Victoria Heller Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2002 9:32 AM To: Mpls Forum Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Guthrie Land Sale: More fun with numbers. One acre of land contains 43,560 square feet. Last fall, Steve Cramer (then executive director of the MCDA) said that the land sale to the Guthrie involved no subsidies - it was a fair market value deal. 10 acres of the City's BEST RIVERFRONT LAND for $3 million. That was $6.79 per sq. ft. Now we ponder selling two parcels: Seven acres to the Guthrie for $4 million = $7.62 per square foot. Three acres to ? for $2.3 million = $5.68 per square foot. A Few Questions for Council Members (MCDA Commissioners): Minneapolis paid $50.00 per square foot for Target Store land. Why is Riverfront land so cheap? Why is there a discrepancy between the two prices: $7.62 vs. $5.68? The parcels are adjacent. How much did the City pay to acquire the land, and how long have we been holding it (off the tax rolls?) In other words, what was our COST - so we can calculate our LOSS. Lots of investors would LOVE to buy riverfront land at those prices: Where do we submit our bids? How will you choose the WINNERS? Eagerly awaiting a reply, Vicky Heller North Oaks and Cedar-Riverside (a stone's throw away from the site in question) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Guthrie Land Sale: More fun with numbers.....
Land on East Franklin Avenue between Portland and the freeway has sold for between $23.00 and $29.00 per square foot (within the last two years ). Is the view of a freeway and the Minneapolis Convention Center across the same freeway more valuable than downtown riverfront? How much would we have saved if Sharon, Jackie and their cronies had not sold out the City and allowed Opus to buy and develop the Target site? Vicki I am willing to partner with you to offer $10.00 per square foot for the same land. Perhaps we could start the MPLS List Development and Trust Company, LLC. If this is indeed not a subsidy then our offer should be accepted. You know Vicki we could build Affordable mixed use on the site, Condo everything for home ownership and individual business ownership, and still do all right, buying the land that cheap. You know Vicki you are fighting unfairly. Like Foghorn Leghorn says, You can argue with me but you can't argue with mathematics. Jim Graham, Ventura Village (and wondering why I don't ever get deals like that) - Original Message - From: Victoria Heller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mpls Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 9:32 AM Subject: [Mpls] Guthrie Land Sale: More fun with numbers. One acre of land contains 43,560 square feet. Last fall, Steve Cramer (then executive director of the MCDA) said that the land sale to the Guthrie involved no subsidies - it was a fair market value deal. 10 acres of the City's BEST RIVERFRONT LAND for $3 million. That was $6.79 per sq. ft. Now we ponder selling two parcels: Seven acres to the Guthrie for $4 million = $7.62 per square foot. Three acres to ? for $2.3 million = $5.68 per square foot. A Few Questions for Council Members (MCDA Commissioners): Minneapolis paid $50.00 per square foot for Target Store land. Why is Riverfront land so cheap? Why is there a discrepancy between the two prices: $7.62 vs. $5.68? The parcels are adjacent. How much did the City pay to acquire the land, and how long have we been holding it (off the tax rolls?) In other words, what was our COST - so we can calculate our LOSS. Lots of investors would LOVE to buy riverfront land at those prices: Where do we submit our bids? How will you choose the WINNERS? Eagerly awaiting a reply, Vicky Heller North Oaks and Cedar-Riverside (a stone's throw away from the site in question) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Guthrie Land Sale: More fun with numbers.....
The Minneapolis Rubes are getting taken again. In the real estate world we call vacant or buildable land dirt. 'How much is the dirt?' Well, out here in the sticks, dirt that had corn on it last year and houses built upon it next year goes for about 120,000 per acre or $3.00 per sq ft. That's if it has a street, gutter, and municipal water/sewer. So thirty miles away from downtown it's three bucks. And the city is giving it away for $5-7. Listmembers, this land along the river could go for $30-50 per sq ft if you want to. Just think what we could fund with $1.3-2.1 Million dollars. MPS could hire 100 teachers for a year. MPB could hire 300+ park supervisors for one summer. I have no idea how many ESL specialists could be hired to teach english to new hard working immigrants. The city has to stop selling such valuable land for so little money. Craig Miller Former Fultonite [EMAIL PROTECTED] One acre of land contains 43,560 square feet. Last fall, Steve Cramer (then executive director of the MCDA) said that the land sale to the Guthrie involved no subsidies - it was a fair market value deal. 10 acres of the City's BEST RIVERFRONT LAND for $3 million. That was $6.79 per sq. ft. Now we ponder selling two parcels: Seven acres to the Guthrie for $4 million = $7.62 per square foot. Three acres to ? for $2.3 million = $5.68 per square foot. A Few Questions for Council Members (MCDA Commissioners): Minneapolis paid $50.00 per square foot for Target Store land. Why is Riverfront land so cheap? Why is there a discrepancy between the two prices: $7.62 vs. $5.68? The parcels are adjacent. How much did the City pay to acquire the land, and how long have we been holding it (off the tax rolls?) In other words, what was our COST - so we can calculate our LOSS. Lots of investors would LOVE to buy riverfront land at those prices: Where do we submit our bids? How will you choose the WINNERS? Eagerly awaiting a reply, Vicky Heller North Oaks and Cedar-Riverside (a stone's throw away from the site in question) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Two Easy Ways to Fix N. Mpls.
Thanks for providing this link, Bill. I had never heard of the publication. I'm a believer in residency. You can't have forced residency, as people will find a way around it. But I think cops should receive incentives for living in the city, even more incentives for living in the district in which they work. There's a major difference when the cop is seen as a neighbor rather than as part of an occupying force, in Collins's words. When we first moved to Mpls. in 1989, we considered buying a charming house at 38th and Chicago. We knew nothing about the neighborhood, so a friend suggested we contact the nearby police department to get an opinion from them. I still remember the officer's words: It's awful. You couldn't pay me to live here. Now, maybe I caught the officer at a bad time on a bad day. But if that's the attitude he carries around with him, how does it affect his performance? Why does he stay in a job if he hates where he works? If I were an employer and that cop were my employee, how long would I keep him around if he continued to badmouth me to potential clients? I hope this article is read and considered by many more people. Thanks again, Bill, for providing it. Susan Maricle Bruno, MN formerly of Folwell __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Rose Garden Strategy for County Commissioner
Since Peter McLaughlin seems to be adopting a Rose Garden strategy in running for re-election, I guess Ill have to vote for Mr. Felien. It seems appalling that an elected official would try to use this list to advertise his candidacy via an electronic campaign brochure, then fail to respond to the very reasonable questions put forward originally by Jordan and resubmitted several times by several people. At least Mike Opat had the courtesy (and nerve) to respond to the questions posed by Bob Velez. I disagree with Mr. Opats desire to tax us for the benefit of Carl Pohlad, but at least he addressed the issue. Peter McLaughlin, however, has stayed silent for over 2 weeks on these questions. If he cant at least dignify constituents questions with some kind of acknowledgement if not actual answers, I cant vote for him. I find his approach to this very disappointing. Walt Cygan Keewaydin Jordan S. Kushner wrote: Dear Commissioner McLaughlin, it is nice to see you attempting to respond to Ed Felien's questions. However, you have not responded to the questions that I sent to you and this list 11 days ago. In case you missed them, please answer the questions below: 1) Why have you appeared to consistently support public funding for a private sports stadium? 2) What was your role in the decision to have Highway 55 fly over Lake Street while causing a much larger delay in the traffic lights at that intersection? =20 3) Why did you sign your names as one of the co-authors of an op-ed piece in the Star Tribune on March 27, 2001, in which you appeared to denounce the Minnesota Attorney General's investigation of Allina Health System's unethical practices? 4) How do you justify your consistent past support for the Highway 55 reroute near the Mississippi river which was destructive to the environment, the community, Native American culture, and has actually led to more rather than less traffic? 5) How do you compare or distinguish your political agenda from your allies in the city of Mineapolis' DFL leadership who were defeated in last year's elections? . Jordan Kushner recent constituent
[Mpls] I'll pay $20 for the land..
I'll pay $20 per sq ft for the parcels. Craig Miller Ready willing and able to build housing on the river with no subsidy from the city [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vicki I am willing to partner with you to offer $10.00 per square foot for the same land. Perhaps we could start the MPLS List Development and Trust Company, LLC. If this is indeed not a subsidy then our offer should be accepted. You know Vicki we could build Affordable mixed use on the site, Condo everything for home ownership and individual business ownership, and still do all right, buying the land that cheap. You know Vicki you are fighting unfairly. Like Foghorn Leghorn says, You can argue with me but you can't argue with mathematics. Jim Graham, Ventura Village (and wondering why I don't ever get deals like that) - Original Message - From: Victoria Heller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mpls Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 9:32 AM Subject: [Mpls] Guthrie Land Sale: More fun with numbers. One acre of land contains 43,560 square feet. Last fall, Steve Cramer (then executive director of the MCDA) said that the land sale to the Guthrie involved no subsidies - it was a fair market value deal. 10 acres of the City's BEST RIVERFRONT LAND for $3 million. That was $6.79 per sq. ft. Now we ponder selling two parcels: Seven acres to the Guthrie for $4 million = $7.62 per square foot. Three acres to ? for $2.3 million = $5.68 per square foot. A Few Questions for Council Members (MCDA Commissioners): Minneapolis paid $50.00 per square foot for Target Store land. Why is Riverfront land so cheap? Why is there a discrepancy between the two prices: $7.62 vs. $5.68? The parcels are adjacent. How much did the City pay to acquire the land, and how long have we been holding it (off the tax rolls?) In other words, what was our COST - so we can calculate our LOSS. Lots of investors would LOVE to buy riverfront land at those prices: Where do we submit our bids? How will you choose the WINNERS? Eagerly awaiting a reply, Vicky Heller North Oaks and Cedar-Riverside (a stone's throw away from the site in question) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] FW: When will we ever learn?
-Original Message- From: Shirley M [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:43 PM To: Marcia Paul Mans; Dorothy Stan Lundberg; Gordon Betty Lee; Bob Dorothy Janes; Mona Gorham; Deb Celley; John Lovelle Arnold; Trudy Nelson; Robert Uppgaard; Peter Milwertz; Paul Connie Walsh; Mike Utzinger; Mark Utzinger; Julie Robbins; Jon Debbie Turnell; John Ehlert; Jan Kurtz; Hanne Munk Hansen; Ellen Dubuque; Dee Elwood; Catherine McConnell; Joyce Sandy Peltzer Subject: Fw: When will we ever learn? - Original Message - From: Marcia Ferris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marcia Ferris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 3:55 PM Subject: Fw: When will we ever learn? A quote from Hermann Goering when he was testifying at Nuremberg: Why of course the people don't want war... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Rose Garden Strategy for County Commissioner
Peter McLaughlin has been out of town for the last little while. WizardMarks, Central Walt Cygan wrote: Since Peter McLaughlin seems to be adopting a Rose Garden strategy in running for re-election, I guess I'll have to vote for Mr. Felien. It seems appalling that an elected official would try to use this list to advertise his candidacy via an electronic campaign brochure, then fail to respond to the very reasonable questions put forward originally by Jordan and resubmitted several times by several people. At least Mike Opat had the courtesy (and nerve) to respond to the questions posed by Bob Velez. I disagree with Mr. Opat's desire to tax us for the benefit of Carl Pohlad, but at least he addressed the issue. Peter McLaughlin, however, has stayed silent for over 2 weeks on these questions. If he can't at least dignify constituents' questions with some kind of acknowledgement if not actual answers, I can't vote for him. I find his approach to this very disappointing. Walt Cygan Keewaydin Jordan S. Kushner wrote: Dear Commissioner McLaughlin, it is nice to see you attempting to respond to Ed Felien's questions. However, you have not responded to the questions that I sent to you and this list 11 days ago. In case you missed them, please answer the questions below: 1) Why have you appeared to consistently support public funding for a private sports stadium? 2) What was your role in the decision to have Highway 55 fly over Lake Street while causing a much larger delay in the traffic lights at that intersection? =20 3) Why did you sign your names as one of the co-authors of an op-ed piece in the Star Tribune on March 27, 2001, in which you appeared to denounce the Minnesota Attorney General's investigation of Allina Health System's unethical practices? 4) How do you justify your consistent past support for the Highway 55 reroute near the Mississippi river which was destructive to the environment, the community, Native American culture, and has actually led to more rather than less traffic? 5) How do you compare or distinguish your political agenda from your allies in the city of Mineapolis' DFL leadership who were defeated in last year's elections? . Jordan Kushner recent constituent ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] FW: When will we ever learn/War on property/anniversary
In a message dated 10/5/02 4:33:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Original Message - From: Marcia Ferris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marcia Ferris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 3:55 PM Subject: Fw: When will we ever learn? A quote from Hermann Goering when he was testifying at Nuremberg: Why of course the people don't want war... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. Keith says; This 'forwarder' failed to sign or make the post Mpls. Specific, so I will make the connection. We are approaching the one year anniversary of the end of a War on poverty, right here in Mpls. Yes, the Mpls. DFL Machine had waged a twelve year war on our city's affordable housing stock and the poor people who resided within. As in war, small property owners found they had no property rights as gun fire echoed on the mean streets of Mpls. The poor were concentrated in their ghettos, North and South, more and more densely as battered buildings were boarded and demolished around them. Was the shelter a concentration camp? People were concentrated there; not killed. But a generation's learning potential and optimism was killed when the City/DFL Policy destroyed home life for so many poor families. And the middle class, the small investors who owned commercial and residential property, didn't know that the City/DFL Agenda was to board up and tear down any building that became distressed and vulnerable. So long as the City did not pay for acquisition, the slippery slope to the landfill was kept well greased. Street dealing criminals were allowed sanctuary out front while housing code and housing court outlook rewarded tenants' damage to property. The Police Unit CCP/Safe was tainted to punish property owners for the misconduct, and criminal conduct of tenants, and then close their buildings, as in war. As in war, vacant lots appeared in the war zone, and spread into whole parcels of the hood. The normal amenities were no longer available to be purchased. As in a war zone, Civil rights were suspended. The presumption of innocence on the streets was gone. The right to equal protection under the law, for families cloistered behind bolted and shuttered doors in their homes, was gone. The war is over now. Proof is all the prefab homes filling the vacant lots now. Different owners, different residents. Shall we observe the anniversary? Shall we forget and move on? Some DFL elected-office holders have different faces now. Some DFL elected officeholders in this one-party town have different outlooks now. Our City has less monetary might now. But the leaders of our local DFL, the policy makers for the party, how have they changed? Has the light of past folly been shined on their faces. Do we know the DFL party leaders who led the DFL office-holders; who them to that morally/fiscally bankrupt war/demolition policy? Are they still at the helm, controlling the levers of power and policy? When will we ever learn... to identify the people behind the officeholders? Keith Reitman Making a transition from sentry duty to home beautiful NearNorth Rents uncollected/Rants Mpls Specific ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Two Easy Ways to Fix N. Mpls.
Susan Maricle wrote: When we first moved to Mpls. in 1989, we considered buying a charming house at 38th and Chicago. We knew nothing about the neighborhood, so a friend suggested we contact the nearby police department to get an opinion from them. I still remember the officer's words: It's awful. You couldn't pay me to live here. I live at Lake and Oakland, but you couldn't pay me to live at 38th and Chicago. There's an SA station on that corner which means traffic is going day and night. Lake St. goes all night too, but without a convenience store/gas station, it's very mellow at 2, 3, and 4 am. Now, maybe I caught the officer at a bad time on a bad day. But if that's the attitude he carries around with him, how does it affect his performance? Why does he stay in a job if he hates where he works? If I were an employer and that cop were my employee, how long would I keep him around if he continued to badmouth me to potential clients? This issue is a lot more complex than most of us credit. Nobody asks a judge whether living at Christmas Lake and working at Henn. Co. Courthouse (a.k.a. the toaster) means he/she can't do a good job. Nobody asks my boss, head of Hosmer Library if living around 44th and France means he cannot do his job well. He does excellently at some things and not so splendidly at others, just like everybody else's boss. There's a lieutenant at the 3rd precinct who lives somewhere in Minnetonka, but I wouldn't trade her for anything you'd care to offer. I used to work at Lake and Chicago, right in the middle of the biggest mess I hope to ever see. During that period, my attitude toward cops and criminals was pretty sour. My attitude toward complacent and/or frightened citizen's got off the rails too. I don't have the kind of personality to spend so many concentrated hours right in the thick of the yuck. The test for the personality of a police officer, as I understand it, is the MMPI. I'm fairly sure the MMPI is not a toolfor fine measurements. It can measure perhaps, some gross things, some general categories, but that's all. I divide it up this way. Some people--police officers included--have a bunker mentality about life. They think they will be safe if the wear a turtle shell, have lots of alarm systems, and close in on themselves, defining their ecological niche very narrowly so that everyone they know is just like them. (Personally, I think those type of folks are unfair to themselves and other hominids, but) Some folks let their curiosity out on a long kite string and explore here and there. They attempt to 'meet and greet' the world. They're bored stiff when everybody's just like them. They don't think they would be any safer closed in than out in the mix. I think of it as a continuum with the bunkerers on one end and the totally free spirits on the other with the rest of us sprinkled along the string between them. Where, between the two extremes, are the best cops huddled? Are they all together? Do you need a mix? If you can identify that spot(s), then we can do a better job of choosing which people are best for which kinds of work and, theoretically at least, we would have better police departments all round. 1989 was a year when, for the first time in a couple of generations, Minneapolis police and citizens were hit with a massive open street drug trade. The police dept. didn't really have a clue about how to tackle the situation. Neither did anybody else. A lot of cops had bunker mentality to the 9th power at the time, citizen's were developing it likewise. Some still do. Some always will because they don't have enough roughage in their diets. I don't intend to defend the cops or disparage them (usually), but living where I do, I wind up having a lot of interaction with them. I have to say, though, I don't care where they live. If they want to commute from Outer East Somewhere Else, that's their lookout. It they want to live up a flagpole, I'm OK with it. What I want to know is whether or not they have the good sense to make friends in their sectors so they have a few folks watching their backs and those same folks ready and able to challenge them when their behavior goes South. WizardMarks, Central __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
