[Mpls] Protest Numbers - DOZENS DEMONSTRATE!!!

2003-02-17 Thread Gypsycurse7

Several dozens demonstrated against the war in Minneapolis in concert with 
the tens of thousands worldwide. When asked how many dozens it had seen in 
Minneapolis a reporter for WorldDominationbyCorporations Media stated that 
he/she couldn't be sure but it might be comparable to the tens of thousands 
in Washington, DC on January 18th. By comparison, there are the millions (or 
minute fractions thereof) who make up the pro war counter demonstration.

Stayed tune for more math lessons from the MPD academy of dissident 
countology. Brought to us by the H. Goebbels chair of reporting.

Linda Mann
Kingfield

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[Mpls] protesters

2003-02-17 Thread James E. Jacobsen
If it is fair for the anti wars to say the things they are saying
then it is fair also to say that they are a treasonous bunch of idiots and
liars;  They are working against their own country and nation -and people,
and in faver of a Saddam Hussien and his Hitlerian dreams of being King of
the middle east, controlling the opec oil -and yes, taking the income for
his own military-, annilating Isreal and exposing the very protesters
, -through suicide bombers- ($25000 paid to the families) to their own death
or dismemberment wherever people congregate.
We have freedom of speech and opinion in this country.  Others have
their rights and I have mine.
 This is only partly a Minneapolis germane letter, though more
germane than the letters saying nasty things about the President and etc.
 James Jacobsen  //  Whittier



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[Mpls] War talk

2003-02-17 Thread List Manager
Folks, it wasn't great timing on my part to post a notice asking to stop
general war talk the day BEFORE the big protest.

But everyone has had the weekend to discuss, and now we're drifting back
into general stuff.

Again, respectfully, let's end the thread and move back to
Minneapolis-specific issues. Please.

David Brauer
List manager


on 2/17/03 8:15 AM, James E. Jacobsen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   If it is fair for the anti wars to say the things they are saying
 then it is fair also to say that they are a treasonous bunch of idiots and
 liars;  They are working against their own country and nation -and people,
 and in faver of a Saddam Hussien and his Hitlerian dreams of being King of
 the middle east, controlling the opec oil -and yes, taking the income for
 his own military-, annilating Isreal and exposing the very protesters
 , -through suicide bombers- ($25000 paid to the families) to their own death
 or dismemberment wherever people congregate.
   We have freedom of speech and opinion in this country.  Others have
 their rights and I have mine.
This is only partly a Minneapolis germane letter, though more
 germane than the letters saying nasty things about the President and etc.
James Jacobsen  //  Whittier
 
 
 
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Re: [Mpls] protesters

2003-02-17 Thread Gypsycurse7
In a message dated 2/17/2003 8:19:27 AM Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  We have freedom of speech and opinion in this country.  Others have
  their rights and I have mine.

At least for now (until Patriot Act II is enacted). And the Minneapolis press 
(along with others) consciously reduce the expression from the anti war side 
by lying about the numbers we mobilize to use what little freedom of speech 
we have left (although I recognize that the Star Tribune did report 
thousands demonstrated yesterday - seemingly alone among the rest of the 
twin cities media).   

Linda Mann
Kingfiled

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Re: [Mpls] Rybak orders police not to talk to media II

2003-02-17 Thread Jay Clark
I have talked with a couple of reporters this morning.

They have told me that if there is a community meeting, and a police
officer is making a presentation or answering questions from neighbors,
the police officer would probably feel as free now as before to talk,
even if there are reporters present.

They were not sure of the answer to one scenario.

Let's say there is a community meeting on some moderately hot topic.  A
police officer is taking questions from neighbors in the room.  There
are reporters present, and they start raising their hands and directing
questions to the police officer.

Would the police officer feel as free as before to answer the questions
coming from the reporters?

Or would the police officer feel she had to refer the questions to
someone else?

The reporters didn't know.

Does anybody in City Hall know?

Jay Clark
Cooper


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[Mpls] State Funds Highway Projects in lieu of Schools

2003-02-17 Thread David Piehl
Bob Sebo wrote:
A lot of us Greater Minnesotans are a bit honked off
that some view it quite acceptable that our
tax dollars rebuild 494, but God forbid theirs' help
keep our library open (snip)

David Piehl writes:

I agree - and in the current environment of funding
shortfalls, it seems absolutely morally bankrupt to
prioritize road projects over things like social
services and education!  Do people realize that our
current governor cut $350 million from the budget -
affecting primarily schools and social services, and
didn't touch MNDoT???  I know they'll say that most of
MNDoT's funding is dedicated funding in the form of a
gas tax, etc. but get real - dedicated funds are
redirected in not-so-extreme circumstances all the
time! The current situation seems to qualify as
extreme.  To continue funding MNDoT in lieu of schools
is INSANE!  A great example of the insanity is the
I35W / Lake Street Access Project in south Minneapolis
(also referred to as the Excess Project), where
Hennepin county and a private law firm (Smith Parker)
are asking taxpayers to spend nearly $200 million to
rearrange some off-ramps.  Unbelievable in this
environment!  The extra interesting intrigue is the
part where Hennepin County will sell bonds to fund the
project, then ask the state to reimburse the county
later.  Sounds like an end run on the state lawmakers
to me!

David Piehl
Central Neighborhood, Minneapolis


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Re: [Mpls] Rybak orders police not to talk to media II

2003-02-17 Thread Jay Clark
I have talked with a couple of reporters this morning.

They have told me that if there is a community meeting, and a police
officer is making a presentation or answering questions from neighbors,
the police officer would probably feel as free now as before to talk,
even if there are reporters present.

They were not sure of the answer to one scenario.

Let's say there is a community meeting on some moderately hot topic.  A
police officer is taking questions from neighbors in the room.  There
are reporters present, and they start raising their hands and directing
questions to the police officer.

Would the police officer feel as free as before to answer the questions
coming from the reporters?

Or would the police officer feel she had to refer the questions to
someone else?

The reporters didn't know.

Does anybody in City Hall know?

Jay Clark
Cooper

P.S. Sorry if you get this message twice.  The first time I sent this
message early this morning, my clock was apparently on the fritz and
sent the message into who knows where

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Re: [Mpls] Rybak orders police not to talk to media II

2003-02-17 Thread Caffeinate The World

--- Jay Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 They have told me that if there is a community meeting, and a police
 officer is making a presentation or answering questions from
 neighbors,
 the police officer would probably feel as free now as before to talk,
 even if there are reporters present.

I love this move by the Mayor to consolidate as much communication as
posible through one representative. That's what corporations do. Reduce
potential damage control. Let one person (more trained, not necessarily
more knowledgeable about some topic) to handle the questions.

There is one problem which might make this path less desireable. It's
not very personable to the tax payers paying their wages. They could
speak volumns come next election. Corporations can get away with it
because it's business as usualy and Joe Tax Payer doesn't have much to
say except when his tax dollar is given to the corporation via
corporate subsidies.

I'm curious to see if it would work here like it did in other cities.

 Let's say there is a community meeting on some moderately hot topic. 
 A
 police officer is taking questions from neighbors in the room.  There
 are reporters present, and they start raising their hands and
 directing
 questions to the police officer.

Maybe police will get proper training in the art of answer the
question without answering it.

 Would the police officer feel as free as before to answer the
 questions coming from the reporters?

See above. Mr. Officer will probably answer, but it may not be the
answer with any depth.
 
 Or would the police officer feel she had to refer the questions to
 someone else?

See above. I can't imagine an officer always referring people to the
communication coordinator. That would make not only the officer look
incompetent, but his department, and the city.

 Does anybody in City Hall know?

The communication coordinator.

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[Mpls] If....if....if

2003-02-17 Thread Jim Mork
If Clinton were in charge of this war instead of Bush, how many
of us would've shown up at the demonstration yesterday?  
  ---Peter Schmitz

And if Jesus Christ had depoloyed 250,000, would Christians be in church praying for 
Iraqi blood to flow?

These are dishonest debating techniques.  Jesus WOULDNT be deploying massive hordes of 
men and weapons to spill other people's blook. And we know by experience Bill Clinton 
WOULDNT be doing what Bush is now doing...so the occasion would never arise to 
hold a huge demonstration in Minneapolis!

Is this war SO silly that people have to create totally bogus scenarioes in the hopes 
of making a point?  Go back to the Somalian adventure started in Bush I.  Clinton 
tried to follow it up, it failed, and so for the next 8 years, he AVOIDED such 
quagmires.

People, including some here, loved to criticize him for being cautious. Now, they want 
to pretend he wasn't?

I think our national example has not only caused our local deficits, it is now causing 
attention deficit.  It is too soon to be forgetting the 90's as a decade of peace and 
prosperity, not war and cutting vital government programs.


--
Jim Mork--Cooper

Save yourself from this corrupt generationAll who believed were together and had 
all things in common; they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the 
proceeds to all, as any had need. Acts 2:4-45

The disciples determined that according to their ability, each would send relief to 
the believers.  Acts 11:29

From each according to his ability...to each according to his need.  Karl Marx
Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail

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[Mpls] Excess Project Support?

2003-02-17 Thread Dave Piehl
I've noticed some genuine creativity in the way Smith
Parker's Tom Johnson handles input from surveys. 
For example, the no-build option is not presented as
an option unless you write it into the comment
section; anyone with even a limited understanding of
surveys can understand how the presentation and
formulation of the question frames the responses.

Anyway, some STRIDE members checked the responses to
the surveys at the open houses, and here are the
results (from the STRIDE website at
www.stride-mn.org):
*
STRIDE got a copy of the open house transcripts -
interestingly (you wouldn't know it from how the
project keeps being spun), most comments are against
the project.

A tally of all comments for all three open houses runs
this way:

for the project: 33

neutral: 23

against the project: 46


http://www.stride-mn.org/

David Piehl
Central


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[Mpls] Excess Project Support?

2003-02-17 Thread Dave Piehl
I've noticed some genuine creativity in the way Smith
Parker's Tom Johnson handles input from surveys. 
For example, the no-build option is not presented as
an option unless you write it into the comment
section; anyone with even a limited understanding of
surveys can understand how the presentation and
formulation of the question frames the responses.

Anyway, some STRIDE members checked the responses to
the surveys at the open houses, and here are the
results (from the STRIDE website at
www.stride-mn.org):
*
STRIDE got a copy of the open house transcripts -
interestingly (you wouldn't know it from how the
project keeps being spun), most comments are against
the project.

A tally of all comments for all three open houses runs
this way:

for the project: 33

neutral: 23

against the project: 46


http://www.stride-mn.org/

David Piehl
Central


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Re: [Mpls] $750,000 Appropriated for Coldwater Springs (Thank You Congressman Sabo!)

2003-02-17 Thread Anderson Turpin
Ken Bradley wrote:
 Original message received from Susu Jeffrey:

 Just got a phone call from Congressman Martin Sabo who
 said the $750,000 appropriation to plan land use for
 historic Camp Coldwater Springs is included in the
 Omnibus Appropriations bill.

Mark Anderson replies:
Yeah -- that Sabo sure does get the pork.  But it makes me think about other
ways we could spend $750,000.

Mark V Anderson
Bancroft



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[Mpls] Change in police communication

2003-02-17 Thread Anderson Turpin
I've gotten really confused by all the discussion on the Rybak change in
police communication.  One or two posts said that all it consists of is
changing central communications from the police dept. to the mayor's office.
One of those posts said that the Star Tribune put a really nasty spin on
this change, to make it sound a lot worse than it was.  Well I read the
strib's story, so maybe I've been spun, but my understanding was that police
officers weren't to speak to reporters (or even give opinions to the general
public?) without being authorized by this central communications person.
The mayor's office of course says that reporters will have access to as many
officers as before -- but what they don't say is that each officer has to be
vouched for first by the mayor's office.

So my question to the mere change of communications from police to mayor
control crowd:  Is it true that cops need to go through the mayor's office
before they speak to reporters or community groups?  Or conversely, was this
already true under the old system?

I've never been a fan of the police dept.'s communication.  But the problem
hasn't been the odd officer spouting off -- it's been the dept.'s inability
to explain their own actions (or inactions).

Mark V Anderson
Bancroft



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Re: [Mpls] $750,000 Appropriated for Coldwater Springs (Thank You Congressman Sabo!)

2003-02-17 Thread ken bradley
Hello Mark:

Ken Bradley Originally wrote:
Original message received from Susu Jeffrey:
Just got a phone call from Congressman Martin Sabo
who said the $750,000 appropriation to plan land use
for historic Camp Coldwater Springs is included in the
Omnibus Appropriations bill.

Mark Anderson Responded:

Mark Anderson replies:
Yeah -- that Sabo sure does get the pork.  But it
makes me think about other ways we could spend
$750,000.
 
Mark V Anderson
Bancroft
 


Ken Bradley responded to Mark's disgust: 

I would suggest you call Congressman Sabo and ask him
to stop returning federal tax dollars to Minnesota.
Apparently you must feel another state has something
more important to fund then protecting one of the most
significant places in Minnesota. Coldwater Springs has
been used by Native Americans for thousands of years
and was the location where the first European settled.


Thank you for your intelligent comments. You can
listen to Rush Limbeau's show at 11:05 a.m. on KSTP
1500 AM. I have copied you the web site
http://www.am1500.com/ so you can get a schedule of
your favorite shows.

Respectfully,

Ken Bradley Corcoran Neighborhood

--- Anderson  Turpin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Ken Bradley wrote:
  Original message received from Susu Jeffrey:
 
  Just got a phone call from Congressman Martin Sabo
 who
  said the $750,000 appropriation to plan land use
 for
  historic Camp Coldwater Springs is included in the
  Omnibus Appropriations bill.
 
 Mark Anderson replies:
 Yeah -- that Sabo sure does get the pork.  But it
 makes me think about other
 ways we could spend $750,000.
 
 Mark V Anderson
 Bancroft
 
 
 
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 possible.
 
 
 
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 Discussion - Mn E-Democracy
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Re: [Mpls] protesters

2003-02-17 Thread WizardMarks
James E. Jacobsen wrote:


   If it is fair for the anti wars to say the things they are saying
then it is fair also to say that they are a treasonous bunch of idiots and
liars;  They are working against their own country and nation -and people,
and in faver of a Saddam Hussien and his Hitlerian dreams of being King of
the middle east, controlling the opec oil -and yes, taking the income for
his own military-, annilating Isreal and exposing the very protesters
, -through suicide bombers- ($25000 paid to the families) to their own death
or dismemberment wherever people congregate. We have freedom of speech and opinion in this country.  Others have
their rights and I have mine.
This is only partly a Minneapolis germane letter, though more
germane than the letters saying nasty things about the President and etc.
James Jacobsen  //  Whittier

WM: You have the right to have an opinion, no one here has said differently.
However, you don't have the right to call those of us who oppose the war
traitors.


WizardMarks, Central




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[Mpls] Leading the march?

2003-02-17 Thread Dee Long

(Sorry, David, but these comments ARE Mpls specific)

I heard from a friend in attendance at Saturday's march/rally that a FORD
EXPEDITION was the lead vehicle for the anti-war committee.  While I support
the goals of the committee and the march, I couldn't help but notice the
supreme irony of this gesture.  Driving a 12 mpg SUV while surrounded by
signs proclaimiing No Blood for Oil, Draft SUV Drivers and How Did Our
Oil Get Under Their Sand? is a really appalling bit of hypocrisy!

Dee Long
East Isles


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Re: [Mpls] Leading the march?

2003-02-17 Thread Dennis Plante

Dee:
Isn't that taking politcal correctness to an extreme? I'd be willing to bet most of the protesters were also wearing man-made synthetic materials for outer-wear. Does that mean they believe less strongly on the need to find a peaceful solution to the issue in Iraq?
Sometimes I think our greatest fault (as a society) is to over-think things. Gas-guzzling SUV's are fairly low on the list of "important things that need fixing".
Dennis Plante
Jordan

From: "Dee Long" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Minneapolis Issues (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Mpls] Leading the march? 
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:43:06 -0600 
 
 
(Sorry, David, but these comments ARE Mpls specific) 
 
I heard from a friend in attendance at Saturday's march/rally that a FORD 
EXPEDITION was the lead vehicle for the anti-war committee. While I support 
the goals of the committee and the march, I couldn't help but notice the 
supreme irony of this gesture. Driving a 12 mpg SUV while surrounded by 
signs proclaimiing "No Blood for Oil", "Draft SUV Drivers" and "How Did Our 
Oil Get Under Their Sand?" is a really appalling bit of hypocrisy! 
 
Dee Long 
East Isles 
 
 
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[Mpls] HOSMER CONCERT: second notice

2003-02-17 Thread WizardMarks



The Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra ensemble will perform a free concert 
at Hosmer Library in recognition of its contributions to education and 
the well-being of Minneapolis residents.

DATE: February 19
TIME:  7:00 p.m.
347 East 36th. St.
South Minneapolis

WizardMarks, Central








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[Mpls] Interactive Maps

2003-02-17 Thread Caffeinate The World
I mentioned an interactive map app a while back. I'm getting some time
to work on it again. Anyone know of a contact in Minneapolis GIS dept?
I need some public domain SHAPE files for boundaries etc. Any help is
appreciated.

Thomas T. Thai / Whittier

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Re: [Mpls] Some specific strategies the Tyesha Edwards Peace Project

2003-02-17 Thread JKurtis Ballantine
Hi Shawn, 

I'd like to piggyback your key facts on this
inclusive, comprehensive and healing project. I met
with Linda, Leonard and Zachary after the $10,000
donation by Minnesota Vikings head Coach Mike Tice.

I think it's important to know who the people are that
made those Key Facts possible.

Here are some Key Facts Published Feb 17, 2003

Zachary Metoyer authored the blueprint for the Tyesha
Edwards Peace Project and arranged for the $10,000
donation to be made from Vikings Coach Mike Tice. 

Sadly, Star Tribune reporter Howie Padilla
misrepresented the facts regarding the Peace Project
by stating in this Sundays paper that the project was
born out of conversations with the Wetterling
Foundation and the Edwards family.

 Quite frankly, the fact is the Peace Project was
given birth too before Tyesha's Edwards funeral
services were over. Long before the Wetterling
Foundation surfaced. That's how deeply and urgently
family and friends were affected by this tragedy. It
also demonstrates the response was truly from the
heart. 

I'm sure many people couldn't sleep that night, some
were called to respond by writing. This is profoundly
spiritual and emotional, so let's get all the facts
right and present them clearly and accurately.

JK Ballantine, Uptown Neighborhood


Shawn Lewis  wrote: Key facts Published Feb. 16,
2003Plans for helping kids Some specific strategies
the Tyesha Edwards Peace Project hopes to use to help
kids stay out of trouble:• Establish a Computers for
Education drive, similar to the Toys For Tots program,
in which computers would be donated to low-income
youth.• Work with walk-in counseling centers to help
low-income youth overcome traumatic experiences.• Help
pay for Internet access for low-income students during
the school year.• Provide scholarships for clothing,
transportation and athletic equipment for low-income
students.• Supply tutoring through computer software
or one-on-one help.• Provide technical school
scholarships for students not planning to attend
college.• Help teens get their GED diploma if they
didn't graduate from high school. • Supply
scholarships for graduating students to help pay for
graduation pictures, caps and gowns.Shawn Lewis, Field
Neighborhood--
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[Mpls] Leading the march?

2003-02-17 Thread Victoria Heller
Dennis Plante wrote:

I'd be willing to bet most of the protesters were also wearing man-made
synthetic materials for outer-wear.

Vicky adds...

...which are made from petroleum products!!

Vicky Heller
Cedar-Riverside and North Oaks


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[Mpls] Fatal shooting to be discussed at Windom Park neighborhood meeting

2003-02-17 Thread Gayle Bonneville
The following is forwarded on behalf of the Windom Park Citizens in Action
neighborhood organization regarding its Feb. 18 meeting:


Important Neighborhood Meeting


Join us as we come together to hear information and to respond to last
week¹s fatal shooting at the Stop ŒN Go on Johnson Street.  The  Minneapolis
Police Department and others will be at the Windom Park Citizens in Action
meeting to provide information and listen to our neighborhood¹s questions
and concerns.  We would like your participation

Please join us.

Tuesday, Feb. 18,  7:00 p.m.
Pillsbury School Park Addition
(enter on the north end of building)
2251 Hayes St. NE, Minneapolis

Free childcare available.

For further information or questions:
Call:  612-788-2192
E-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website:  www.windompark.org


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Re: [Mpls] $750,000 Appropriated for Coldwater Springs (Thank You Congressman Sabo!)

2003-02-17 Thread BudTBum
The 750,000 is for dealing with the Bureau of Mines campus that the 
Feds already own. Coldwater Spring just happens to be on the same 
site.

Not all that money goes towards the Camp Coldwater area, though some 
will. Namely because the Feds are looking to get rid of the campus 
somehow, they need to get a detailed idea of what they are dealing 
with, and what can be done with it. 

When the airport was going to buy the land for $6 mill, it was easier 
for the Feds to legally wash their hands of the whole thing because 
the airport is a state entity.  Without another State entity with 
that kind of cash, it leaves the Feds responsible for everything. 

That's from maintenance, to security, to studying what to do with the 
place. For example it has already been rejected as a headquarters for 
the US Fish and Wildlife, as the buildings would cost too much to 
rehab. 

So it leaves them with a what's next? The area is a bit more 
sensitive as to what can be done because the Coldwater Spring is on 
the property and will need to be protected, by whoever gets the land.

So it's not as wasteful or as pork ridden as you may think. But yes, 
some of it will directly benefit the area, as one of the options is 
to return it to park, a plan that was envisioned all the way back 
when they made the Minneapolis Park system in the first place (though 
it may end up if Fort Snelling State Park, if that option is 
followed, but somone will need (to pay) to remove the buildings 
first)

On a side note, the Mendota Indians, who have been involved with the 
area, are not the ones who own a casino. If they did, they would 
probably buy the land outrightso no they may not be poverity 
stricken as somone posted, but they don't have the millions of 
dollars to assume the campus either. The tribes who DO own a casino, 
and have more money, don't seem to be all that interested.

Tom Holtzleiter
Kingfield

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Re: [Mpls] War talk

2003-02-17 Thread Peter T Schmitz
Folks, I happen to be a white boy, like R.T.  I'm about five feet ten. 
Not an inch deep, and certainly not a mile wide (that description fits
Wizard more than me).  That being said, I stand by my statements about
the Mayor.  If you want to talk about Minneapolis issues, then let's talk
about racial profiling, homelessness, police brutality, and the growing
gap between the rich and the poor that hurts us all.  And yes, the war is
a local issue.  Just last week the DON'T ATTACK IRAQ sign in my front
yard was vandalized two times.  Furthermore, I refuse to see this war as
G.W.'s own doing.  Democrats have a hand in it as well as Republicans,
along with those of us who continue to demand cheap oil.  E.M. Forster
said it best in Howard's End:  Connect . . . only connect.Peter
Schmitz, CARAG

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