[Mpls] Boarding houses?

2003-03-02 Thread Mark Snyder

What's this about allowing boarding or rooming houses in Minneapolis
again?

When I was a student at the U of MN, my fraternity and most of the others
often took in boarders for rooms that were not filled by members.  Usually
these were other University students, but not always.

Is there some ordinance against this or is it one of those NIMBY things that
neighborhoods flip out over?  If I wanted to rent out an open room in my
house (something I've been thinking about doing), could anyone actually stop
me?

Mark Snyder
Windom Park



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Re: [Mpls] Affordable Housing - Other Ideas

2003-03-02 Thread Anderson Turpin
Cathy Leighton wrote:
  Another option whould be to allow boarding and/or rooming houses again.
  This is a very efficient means of sharing space.  It offers a home
owner,
  with extra space, the opportunity to get some extra income and provides
 the
  renter (especially single people) with a truly affordable option.  I
lived
  in a boarding house some years ago and absolutely loved it.

Craig Miller replied:
 This becomes risky business in our modern crime apologetic city.  Can't
tell
 you how many senior,severely limited income ladies I've advised over the
 years.  Some were physically injured by their tenants.  Just terrible to
see
 that happen.  They still had to go through the torturous legal process to
 get the bad guy out.  Boarding houses should have instant eviction power.
 No bones about it.  They call a cop and out goes the tenant.  Ageing
widows
 should not be excluded from rental income by violence.

Mark Anderson here:
Hey great ideas, both of you.  I presume the reason Boarding Houses don't
exist anymore is because of the rules against having too many unrelated
people in one house?  But as another person wrote, I too remember when I was
in college at the U of M, when I lived in houses with innumerable unrelated
people.  Were we breaking the law, or maybe zoning is different around the
U, or maybe the rules have changed since the '70's?  We may be getting to
part of the true reasons for affordable housing problems these days.

On a related note, I've been waiting for someone to respond to Vicky's
fascinating post on how much poor people can afford for housing.  No one has
responded yet, so I'll ask the key question.  Are apartments for $600/month
available?  If so, she makes a very good point.  No full-time worker, if
single, should then be homeless, except in extraordinary circumstances.

Vicky, can you sharpen your pencil for an analysis of people with children
also?  Make sure you include the EITC, Working Family Credit, food stamps,
etc. (and day care costs should also be included... wow this gets really
complicated, but it's worth doing even if we leave off some categories of
people at first).

Mark V Anderson
Bancroft Neighborhood



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[Mpls] Affordable Housing - Other Ideas

2003-03-02 Thread Craig Miller

 On a related note, I've been waiting for someone to respond to Vicky's
 fascinating post on how much poor people can afford for housing.  No one
has
 responded yet, so I'll ask the key question.  Are apartments for
$600/month
 available?  If so, she makes a very good point.  No full-time worker, if
 single, should then be homeless, except in extraordinary circumstances.


 Mark V Anderson
 Bancroft Neighborhood

Craig here.

Less then 4 months ago I sold 34 units in Camden.  Great area.  CM
Johnson's office can testify to the neighborhood and the quality of the
property I ran.  The average rent for a two br was $640.  The 1br's were
$600.
There are least a thousand of these unit types open in the city of Mpls
right now.  Someone mentioned earlier that if we have 8-10,000 units in the
metro open right now.  Why so many people with out stable housing?  That is
a great question with a long answer.  Now's not the time.


Residents paid electricity  telephone.  I paid the big bills garbage,gas,
heat, water. Residents paid elec and phone.  The minimum housing cost was
about $700.  Almost any single person with a $10 hour job could squeeze by
in a 1br.  But that is all they would do, is squeeze by.  Get a roommate,
bump up to a 2br, and the savings are readily apparent.  Savings of almost
$300 per month.  Take that times 36 months and you have $10,800.  Come to
think about it, that's how I got the scratch together to buy my first house.

The $10,800 gets you a down payment in many areas of Mpls.  Oh BTW.  To
anyone who asks.  Your not supposed to raise a family and save for a house
on $5.15 an hour.  If you are, teach your younger brothers and sisters how
tough that is and encourage them not to try.


WAGE LEVELS

I've been a free market capitalists for quite awhile.  I went to many church
basement meetings where MICAH, ISAIAH and you name it have been pushing for
more Non Profit Housing.  They would always enlist the local
business/employer.  The local employer would prattle on about how they can't
hire any more employees because housing is too expensive nearby.  These
business' thought nothing of having some one poach the taxpayers pocket to
pay for the housing of their employees.  So as of this point I'm joining the
barricades on this issue.

If housing is out of reach for the entry level worker, and the government
refuses to ease the cost of housing through regulation and legal reform,
then we need to make the employer pay their employees more.

If they want good employees who are adequately housed, they should pay
higher wages.  Why unload the underpaid on the taxpayers of Mpls?  Oh BTW,
don't let these employers build company owned housing.  A good deal of blood
was spilled in the 8th congressional district in the 20th and 19th century
to end the 'Company Town' and the 'Company Store'.  A very large percentage
of labor strife and embittered misery can find it's flash point in the
'Company Town'.

Craig Miller
Former Affordable Housing Provider
Living in Rogers
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[Mpls] anti-war rally

2003-03-02 Thread Wendy Pareene
A group of junior high students (my daughter and friends) would like to 
participate in the rally mar 8.  I would be honored to chaperone them.  Do 
they need to sign up or can we just show up?  I also volunteer with a group 
of high school age students that might like to participate, with your 
permission? 

Wendy Introwitz Pareene 

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[Mpls] Cuban Medical education

2003-03-02 Thread Phyllis Kahn
I have copied this message to indicate my support for this effort. I
visited the school in Cuba in Dec, 2000. Soon after that they announced
the scholarships for Americans. I sent the info to at least Wellstone,
Dayton, Sabo and McCollum and urged action to bring this to the
attention of Minnesotans. ( I believe at the time there may have been
some indication that Congressional support would be helpful for
applicants.) I believe 50 scholarships were reserved for US citizens, so
the number of 1 is really inadequate.

From: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: JOAN MALERICH [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Cuba medical scholarships 3.02 9am

Cuba scholarships for medical school for Native American Indians

Chris Spotted Eagle, I am working on a project to establish awareness
among Native American Indians, Latinos, African Americans, Asians and
low-income whites of a six-year scholarship program for medical school
at
the Latin America School of Medical Sciences.  As you may know, Cuba
has a
highly acclaimed medical program for doctors.

Fidel Castro initiated this program September of 2000 when speaking at
the
New York City's Riverside Church.  This was in response to a
Mississippi
Delta Congressman's statement at the Congressional Black Caucus
delegation
to Cuba.  The Congressman stated that there were large areas in his
district that do not have a single doctor.

The Latin America School of Medical Sciences has trained thousands of
doctors from poor Latin American countries and Africa.  Now, Castro is
reaching out to third world regions in the United States to train
doctors for the cities, rural areas and reservations where medical
services are most desperately needed.  In addition, it is hoped that
this
will start a dialogue and foster understanding between the people of
the
United States and the people of Cuba.

This is a six-year program and ALL expenses, including lodging and
food
are paid.  One Minnesota woman is currently enrolled in this program,
and
I am in contact with her mother who is interested in participating
with
our committee.

For more information, go to the Interreligious Foundation for
Community
Organization/Pastors for Peace.  I believe you are familiar with Rev.
Lucius Walker of Pastors for Peace.  The website is www.ifconews.org
http://www.ifconews.org .  For specific information on the medical
school, go to www.ifconews.org/medschool.html
http://www.ifconews.org/medschool.html .

After you have had a chance to review the information, please contact
me
via my e-mail or phone number listed below.  I approached Councilman
Dean
Zimmerman about this scholarship program, and he is very interested in
it.
He will be meeting with Rev. Walker in New York next month.  Also, we
shall be having a meeting at Dean's city office Monday, March 3, 9:00
AM
to 11:00.  At this meeting, we shall show a PowerPoint presentation
and
make plans to organize, so Dean will have something to present to Rev.
Walker when they meet.

I look forward to hearing from you about this very innovative and
exciting
scholarship program. --Joan Malerich [EMAIL PROTECTED] 651-451-4081

Phyllis Kahn State Rep 59B

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[Mpls] Re: Boarding houses?

2003-03-02 Thread Barbara L. Nelson
I used to own a duplex in Seward and the law -- as I understood it -- for the
whole city (it does not exempt student housing whether it is near the U, or not)
is that you cannot have more than 3 unrelated people in any one unit.  As for
boarding houses, there are still a few of them that are grandfathered in.  There
was one on my block in Seward and another one a couple blocks to the south.  The
one on my block made a killing by renting each room out for between $300 -
$350/month.  They made $1500 on a unit that would normally rent for about
$800-1000 (this was 1998) if the two floors were rented as one unit.  Sweet,
huh?  On a block filled with duplexes, this place really stood out because of
the disparity in rental rates.
Barbara Nelson
Burnsville
Once and future Minneapolitan



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Re: [Mpls] Re: Boarding houses?

2003-03-02 Thread Constance Nompelis
I'd like to add my voice to the question: are boarding
houses really not allowed in Mpls?  (Hey lawyers,
property owners, legislators, tell us what you know!)

I think that while there may be risks associated with
boarding houses, the benefits can also be huge.

When I met my husband, he was just starting his
graduate program at the University.  As a foreign
student, he wasn't legal to work, and of course didn't
have any family here to stay with.  He got a room at a
house on University Ave.  14th, which I believe
housed about 9-10 individuals, all in separate
bedrooms but with two shared baths and a shared
kitchen.  The owner, a single man, lived there too.
(And still does today.)

This place was really what allowed my husband to make
it.  He paid $250 a month for a tiny attic bedroom,
and walked to and from school year round.  The vast
majority of his house-mates were also students, and a
lot of them were also from other countries.  (Thus
unable to earn money outside of stipends from TA-ing
or doing research.)  Many of them could not afford any
other type of living situation.  

This place is still there now, and as a matter of
fact, my sister-in-law has now rented the same room
that my husband used to have, and is very pleased with
the situation.  (She wanted her independence from the
big brother and his wife!)  

I imagine that this house is grandfathered in, as they
say, since it's been operating without issue for a
number of years.  It's a shame if others cannot do
similar things with their homes, considering how much
it has helped those folks with the least money - and
clearly it can be profitable for the owners as well.

Connie Nompelis
Ventura Village
-MRC-  

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Mpls] Good news for lovers of truth and beauty.

2003-03-02 Thread Anderson Turpin
Erik Reise wrote:
 Let's give a sales tax reduction to small art purchases in the central
 cities. One idea would be to lower the sales tax rate on sales below
 $20.00 to 3%. By lowering the rate we would increase the volume of
 transactions reported and subject to tax. This would increase revenue
 and bring art's great virtues - Truth and Beauty - to more residents.
 LOwer prices will also entice suburban arts consumers to buy more from
 urban artisans increasing the state's take on the income tax as more
 dollars are subjected to tax a third time. (An art purchase is made by
 the buyer with after tax dollars; includes a sales tax; and is then
 treated as income to the artist.)

 It's really a no brainer. Lower Sales Tax on art sold in the urban core!

Mark Anderson reply:
Well it takes only a small portion of my brain to determine that this is a
very bad idea.  As the administrator of sales tax collection for my firm, I
can tell you that this kind of sales tax rule really complicates the law.
We don't need more complicated taxes.  If you want money for the arts, it is
more honest to just ask for it from various governments rather mucking up
the tax laws.  Admittedly I'm not in favor of using public money for such a
purpose through expenditures either, but using the sales tax to spend the
money makes a bad idea very bad.

Mark V Anderson
Bancroft



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[Mpls] Ethics ordinance--public hearing news

2003-03-02 Thread Ellen Trout



I want to let those of you interested in the proposed new 
ethics ordinance know how things went at the public hearing last Monday. Basically, I think the hearing went very 
well. There was a far more positive 
response from the City Council than indicated by the article in the Star 
Tribune. Public hearings are 
designed to bring out the people concretely affected by a proposed policy 
change, and hear their concerns. 
That happened, and the Task Force and Council are addressing those 
concerns, which were concerns about how the new codes provisions apply to the 
300-some City appointed members of various City boards and commissions. 
The hearing was continued, and so the public will have 
another opportunity to comment on the proposed new Code. The new hearing date is Monday, March 
17th, as part of the Ways  Means/Budget Committee meeting. The 
meeting starts at 1:30, and we do not know yet if there will be a specific time 
assigned for the public hearing (we will keep you posted). This is where I ask for your help. If you would like to see the City 
council take this concrete step to restore trust in City government, please come 
and testify at the hearing, or let your Council Member know with an e-mail, 
call, or letter.


[Mpls] New Ethics Code for Minneapolis

2003-03-02 Thread Ellen Trout



Like most of the other forum members commenting on the 
proposed new Ethics Code, I enthusiastically support it. As the Chair of the 
Ethics Task Force, I know that the proposed new Code is a huge improvement over 
the current Code. It is clear, it 
is comprehensive, and it tackles the tough issues of conflicts of interest, 
outside employment, nepotism and what happens when someone violates the 
Code. I believe that it will form 
the basis for building a new, better ethical culture and climate in the City of 
Minneapolis. Please take a look at 
the proposed Code and a chart showing the major differences between it and the 
current Code on the Citys web site at http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/mayor/priorities/ethics.
I want to comment on the concern raised by Greg Abbott in his 
overall positive review of the Code. 
Greg was concerned that the sections designed to prevent elected 
officials from using their power to inappropriately influence the judgment of 
employees is too broad, because it prohibits the elected officials from asking 
an employee to do a special favor or make an exception for a constituent or 
other individual or organization contrary to existing law or adopted City 
policy. Greg said,  I think the 
proposed guidelines are a little tough by seeking to outright ban elected 
officials from advocating an exception to city policy on behalf of a 
constituent. As Greg later pointed 
out, the ideal process when an elected official discovers that a City policy has 
an unintended or unfair impact on a constituent is to bring the issue before the 
whole City Council, and change the policy.
This is exactly what we hope the proposed new Codes 
provision will achieve. The new 
Code is not an outright ban on elected official advocacy on behalf of the 
officials constituents. But, by 
prohibiting an elected official from solving a problem with a special 
exception, the elected official, to advocate for his or her constituent, will 
need to get the policy changed by taking the issue up with the whole 
Council. We know that this will be 
a slower process than the case-by-case exception model, but the Task Force 
believes it is the right process. 
It is a process that will ensure that all citizens affected by the 
unintended consequences of a City ordinance or policy will get the situation 
corrected, not just those citizens who have the time, resources, or influence to 
get a special exception. In 
addition, it protects employees from the pressure of an elected official whose 
interpretation of or willingness to change a City ordinance or policy may be 
different than that of the Council as a whole. I think the proposed policy will result 
in the process Greg advocated. 
Finally, I want to correct a statement in Dore Meads post on 
the Ethics Ordinance about my ethics experience. When I worked as an attorney for the 
Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis I was the Ethics Advisor. My boss, the General Council, was the 
Ethics Officer. 



Re: [Mpls] New Ethics Code for Minneapolis

2003-03-02 Thread Andy Driscoll
I want congratulate Ms. Trout and the City of Minneapolis for actually
getting serious about an ethics policy, with at least some teeth. The
appointments process for Board members seems right, although one would hop
that the Judge will be careful about relying too heavily on recommendations
by councilmembers and the mayor, who stand to benefit from politicizing the
appointments process.

It seems to me that, like the Charter Commission, no government officials
except the Chief Judge should be involved in the appointments process.

Another element not clear in the ordinance is the presence or absence of
subpoena power to give the Board the clout it needs to investigate
complaints and gather the necessary information, even from reluctant
witnesses.

We tried for years to do this in St. Paul and the good old boys network
prevented its passage as a charter amendment - either mandating certain
ethical standards and establishing the board right in the charter, or by
mandating that the city council do the job and fund it properly - the big
trick, of course.

By state law, charter commissions in home rule cities must be adequately
funded by the cities in their jurisdictions. The same should be true of
ethics boards and their enforcement function.

Good luck Minneapolis

Andy Driscoll
former Charter Commissioner
Saint Paul
 
What does it matter to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless whether the
mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy
name of liberty or democracy?  ­ Mahatma Ghandi

 From: Ellen Trout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Like most of the other forum members commenting on the proposed new
 Ethics Code, I enthusiastically support it. As the Chair of the Ethics
 Task Force, I know that the proposed new Code is a huge improvement over
 the current Code.  It is clear, it is comprehensive, and it tackles the
 tough issues of conflicts of interest, outside employment, nepotism and
 what happens when someone violates the Code.  I believe that it will form
 the basis for building a new, better ethical culture and climate in the
 City of Minneapolis.  Please take a look at the proposed Code and a chart
 showing the major differences between it and the current Code on the
 City¹s web site at
 http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/mayor/priorities/ethics.
 
 I want to comment on the concern raised by Greg Abbott in his overall
 positive review of the Code.  Greg was concerned that the sections
 designed to prevent elected officials from using their power to
 inappropriately influence the judgment of employees is too broad, because
 it prohibits the elected officials from asking an employee to do ³a
 special favor or make an exception for a constituent or other individual
 or organization contrary to existing law or adopted City policy.²  Greg
 said, ³ I think the proposed guidelines are a little tough by seeking to
 outright ban elected officials from advocating an exception to city
 policy on behalf of a constituent.²  As Greg later pointed out, the ideal
 process when an elected official discovers that a City policy has an
 unintended or unfair impact on a constituent is to bring the issue before
 the whole City Council, and change the policy.
 
 This is exactly what we hope the proposed new Code¹s provision will
 achieve.  The new Code is not an outright ban on elected official
 advocacy on behalf of the official¹s constituents.  But, by prohibiting
 an elected official from ³solving² a problem with a special exception,
 the elected official, to advocate for his or her constituent, will need
 to get the policy changed by taking the issue up with the whole Council.
 
 We know that this will be a slower process than the case-by-case
 exception model, but the Task Force believes it is the right process.  It
 is a process that will ensure that all citizens affected by the
 unintended consequences of a City ordinance or policy will get the
 situation corrected, not just those citizens who have the time,
 resources, or influence to get a special exception.  In addition, it
 protects employees from the pressure of an elected official whose
 interpretation of or willingness to change a City ordinance or policy may
 be different than that of the Council as a whole.  I think the proposed
 policy will result in the process Greg advocated.
 
 Finally, I want to correct a statement in Dore Mead¹s post on the Ethics
 Ordinance about my ethics experience.  When I worked as an attorney for
 the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis I was the Ethics Advisor.  My
 boss, the General Council, was the Ethics Officer.
 


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Re: [Mpls] Re: Boarding houses?

2003-03-02 Thread steven meldahl
It depends on the zoning.  The higher the zoning for the property, the
more unrelated people can occupy the unit.  It is in the Mpls Zoning
book.

Steve Meldahl
Jordan (work)
- Original Message -
From: Barbara L. Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mark Snyder [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Minneapolis Issues
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 12:57 PM
Subject: [Mpls] Re: Boarding houses?


 I used to own a duplex in Seward and the law -- as I understood it --
for the
 whole city (it does not exempt student housing whether it is near the
U, or not)
 is that you cannot have more than 3 unrelated people in any one unit.
As for
 boarding houses, there are still a few of them that are grandfathered
in.  There
 was one on my block in Seward and another one a couple blocks to the
south.  The
 one on my block made a killing by renting each room out for between
$300 -
 $350/month.  They made $1500 on a unit that would normally rent for
about
 $800-1000 (this was 1998) if the two floors were rented as one unit.
Sweet,
 huh?  On a block filled with duplexes, this place really stood out
because of
 the disparity in rental rates.
 Barbara Nelson
 Burnsville
 Once and future Minneapolitan



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[Mpls] Realism in Housing: RT and Police-community Relations

2003-03-02 Thread Jim Mork
The definition I've heard of affordable housing' is 30 percent of income.  A $600 
apartment, if ALL utilities are included, costs $7200 a year.  $7200/.3 is $24,000 a 
year.  $24,000/2080 = $11.50 an hour.  Retail employees don't MAKE $11.50 an hour.  
And that is what the modal employee does.

If you make $7.50 an hour and IF you have 40 hour/week job, you make $15,600.  Doing 
the rest of the math, it means an affordable domicile is $390 a month INCLUDING 
utilities.

So, now which of you geniuses is renting for $390/month?

Now as to the police and the Indians, has it occurred to anybody yet that they are the 
LESS frequently abused group?  How about turning this discussion back to the group 
that is the USUAL target of violence?  That is who should be #1 on RT's list.  Not 
that he should ignore the Native American group.  In fact, ideally, he should gather 
all the minority communities together in one problem-solving process.  And he should 
find an assistant with more experience in this sort of thing to mastermind the 
changes.  Someone to build up a fund of fact that can be used to construct a reform 
program.  These ad hoc solutions just don't make it.  They are just window-dressing.  
Lets put less emphasis on haste and more on lasting change.  And along the way, can we 
muzzle the rhetoric a little, assuming we don't put a lot of value on grandstanding?


--
Jim Mork--Cooper

Save yourself from this corrupt generationAll who believed were together and had 
all things in common; they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the 
proceeds to all, as any had need. Acts 2:4-45

The disciples determined that according to their ability, each would send relief to 
the believers.  Acts 11:29

From each according to his ability...to each according to his need.  Karl Marx
Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail

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[Mpls] This Week in The Minneapolis Observer

2003-03-02 Thread Craig Cox
T H E  M I N N E A P O L I S  O B S E R V E R
A Weekly Digest of All Things Minneapolitan
www.mplsobserver.com
Vol. 2, No. 29
March 3, 2003

This is a preview edition of The Observer. Check out a sample issue at
www.mplsobserver.com and if you're interested in subscribing ($12/yr.),
just hit 'reply' and we'll set you up. Thanks.

**

THIS WEEK IN THE OBSERVER:
* Guthrie May Have to Wait Two Years for State Money
* City DFLers at Odds Over Early Elections
* Johnson Lee: No Regrets
* Anti-War Protesters Arrested at Quarry Mall
* University Dean Receives Social Justice Award
Plus: A mayor's life, kidnappers afoot, Loring Park squirrels, and a
political quiz for Republicans.

**

GUTHRIE MAY HAVE TO WAIT TWO YEARS FOR STATE MONEY
The Guthrie Theater's proposed $125 million riverfront complex will get no
state funding this year and may not see any state help until at least 2005.
The delay, Guthrie officials say, may jeopardize the entire project.

Despite supporting the theater's $35 million request during his campaign,
Gov. Tim Pawlenty has been forced to put the Guthrie and other state
bonding projects on hold because of the state's $5.5 billion budget
deficit, said his spokesperson, Leslie Kupchella. It's not realistic given
current budget restraints, she told the Skyway News
(http://www.skywaynews.net).

Guthrie spokesperson James Morrison said the delay would drive up the cost
of the project and could threaten some of the $90 million the theater has
already raised from private donors, whose pledges were contingent on state
support. How long can you string along the private-sector investment in
this project? he asked. There are a lot of competing projects in this
community for private donations.

The legislature last year passed a $24 million bonding request for the
project, but it was vetoed by Gov. Jesse Ventura. In February, Pawlenty
unalloted $2 million that had been approved for the Guthrie's project
planning. Still, Morrison is confident the deal can get done. If the
government were to take up the $350 million capital projects vetoed during
the last session and add $1 billion to this amount, the [borrowing] would
still be less than the legal cap of 3 percent of the state's operating
budget, he said.

CITY DFLERS AT ODDS OVER EARLY ELECTIONS
Local DFL solidarity was again evident at the State Capitol last week, as
State Representative Phyllis Kahn introduced a bill that would force the
city of Minneapolis to hold new city council elections this November.

DESPITE CONTROVERSY, JOHNSON LEE HAS NO REGRETS
Fourteen months into her term, Fifth Ward Council Member Natalie Johnson
Lee has moved from the assessment phase to one in which she is ready for
anything.

ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS ARRESTED AT QUARRY MALL
Two anti-war activists leafletting outside Rainbow Foods at the Quarry Mall
in Northeast Minneapolis were arrested February 23 for trespassing.

**
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Editor: Craig Cox
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Perspective: Martin Cox
Thanks to: Jeanne Anderson, Stephen Eisenmenger, Mark Plenke

***
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Re: [mpls] H.F. 67 Defeated - Just Not Officially

2003-03-02 Thread Jhpalmerjp
I just want to chime ine with thanks to Michelle for her riveting description of 
democracy in action at the Legislature.  

Although it's also true that Michelle's position would have prevailed even if the 
committee vote on H.F. 67 had been 8 to 8. A tie vote would also have killed the bill.

Of course I dont know why Im elaborating on the rules since they werent 
really following them anyway...

Maybe one day that whole of the people, by the people for the people thing will 
apply to everyone and not just selected favorites...

Jonathan Palmer
Watching the defeat of the Wrath of Kahn in Victory

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