Re: [Mpls] Affordable Housing - Other Ideas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] asks: Why so many people with out stable housing? That is a great question with a long answer. SAM here: Here's a guess: spotty credit reports and rental histories, inability to come up with move-in expenses. Craig says: Get a roommate, bump up to a 2br, and the savings are readily apparent. Savings of almost $300 per month. Take that times 36 months and you have $10,800. SAM here: I agree. I also feel that not everyone has the living skills to live with a roommate. When we rented to two single women they were regularly calling the police to settle their conflicts. When I volunteered with People Serving People I received a hysterical call at midnight from a woman whose roommate had thrown her out. As for Vicky's meticulous post about how much a minimum-wage worker can afford, those calculations are based on a perfect world: no catastrophic illnesses, no transmission overhauls, not one unforeseen expense. One such expense can send me into a tailspin, and I'm not a minimum-wage worker. I am not making excuses for why people are unable to find housing, just pointing out reasons why since people are asking why. A good book to read is Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich. Susan Maricle another former rental property owner in Folwell now of Bruno MN __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Realism in Housing:
The poster writes. The definition I've heard of affordable housing' is 30 percent of income. A $600 apartment, if ALL utilities are included, costs $7200 a year. $7200/.3 is $24,000 a year. $24,000/2080 = $11.50 an hour. Retail employees don't MAKE $11.50 an hour. And that is what the modal employee does. If you make $7.50 an hour and IF you have 40 hour/week job, you make $15,600. Doing the rest of the math, it means an affordable domicile is $390 a month INCLUDING utilities. So, now which of you geniuses is renting for $390/month? Craig here Beware of rules chiseled on stone tablets issued from Mt. Washington DC. Just because a govt technician or housing advocate says so, doesn't make it true. Think about your first apartment, I'll bet everyone of us paid more then 30%. Then think of your first mortgage. Those payments sure looked big in the beginning. Then you learned how to trim your expenses, earn more money. List members, what are your recollections of your first apt, house, and how much of your pay it consumed? Craig Miller Former Affordable Housing Provider Living in Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Debunking the Affordable Housing myth
Jim Mork writes: The definition I've heard of affordable housing' is 30 percent of income. Vicky clarifies: Mr. Mork is thinking of the HUD Section 8 program requirements calling for the tenant to pay 1/3rd of his/her income as rent, with the Federal government picking up the balance each month. Example: If Riverside Plaza charges $1,000 for a 2BR apartment, and its occupant has income of $200 per month, the tenant pays $66 per month and the Federal government pays $934 per month. Affordable housing is much more vague. These two words enable clever developers to dupe our government into lending millions of extra dollars to build housing that isn't affordable at all. Example: Stone Arch Apartments. The land value, according to tax records, is $536,800. According to Steve Minn/MCDA, construction costs for the 221 apartments are $22,282,739, architectural fees are $465,000, interest during construction is $705,077, site improvements and demolition costs are $450,000, and relocation fees are $550,000. Assuming these costs are valid (which is a big assumption without seeing any detail) the reported cost to build the project is $24,989,616, or $25 million to make the arithmetic easy - roughly $113,000 per apartment. A private lender would require the owner(s) to have at least 10% equity in the project, and might therefore lend $22.5 million. If making money in real estate the old fashioned way, the owners would end up with a $25 million project and a $22.5 million mortgage. Our public lenders aren't so strict. They allow the developer to add $2,741,117 in developers fees and another $2,576,552 in other fees and soft costs and another $1,663,200 in acquisition costs and another $857,028 in construction contingency. Now the cost of the project is up to $32,827,513, or $148,541 per unit. Now one must wonder what kind of affordable housing do we actually get for all of this extra money. Well, since someone at HUD decided the AMI (area median income) for Minneapolis is $53,700 for a single person, and $82,800 for a family of five, we get affordable rents of: $805 for a studio (if the tenant's income is 60% AMI) $863 for a 1 BR $1,035 for a 2 BR $1,196 for a 3 BR, etc. When all is said and done, we get nothing. The owners, and the recipients of all of those fees have a rather nice score on their hands. Not to mention the limited partners in the project who bought a hefty tax shelter for the next ten years (IRS Section 42 tax credits - cannot report how much without seeing the books - but the bigger the losses, the better for the limited partners.) One could argue effectively that each time we do one of these deals, we actually REDUCE taxes collected in Minnesota, and Federal. Hope this isn't too long - but I don't want to be accused of leaving something out. Arithmetic by, Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside and North Oaks TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] No Bikes on Lake Street?
Jim Grube wrote: (snip) I may have said that once Lake Street is reconstructed, bikes would be prohibited. This will not be the case. Because of the limited room along Lake Street, and a desire to avoid building removal, reconstructed Lake (snip) will (not) have bike lanes (it doesn't now). If bicyclists do wish to use Lake Street, they will be allowed to so (in the same manner they do today). David Piehl writes: Thanks for the clarification Jim - as I understand from your post: essentially, bike access does not exist today on Lake, and will not be incorporated into the new design (expected to be good for 40 years) either. My question for project organizers and list members: Is this a done deal? I certainly recognize the space limitations, but firmly believe that a plan that will allegedly serve the area for the next 40 years really needs to include some form of non-automobile transportation. Have bike lanes been rejected out of hand? If so, by whom? Is there a possibility of putting them into the plan? Are alternative transport concepts from other cities and countries being considered, or do we always have to be 20 years behind the curve in Minnesota? David Piehl Central __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Affordable Housing - Other Ideas
Vicky, can you sharpen your pencil for an analysis of people with children also? Make sure you include the EITC, Working Family Credit, food stamps, etc. (and day care costs should also be included... wow this gets really complicated, but it's worth doing even if we leave off some categories of people at first). Mark V Anderson Bancroft Neighborhood I would like to know this, too. My daughter was one of a large number of people recently laid off from a bank in Minneapolis. She is a single parent, with a five and a two year old. She has daycare costs to contend with as well. Sharing a apartment with someone is not a real option as, most single people without kids don't want to room with a mom. The kids need their own space. She was making $10 an hour, but now that she is laid off, her subsidized daycare will be taken away. She was not on Section 8, she was cutting corners and doing all the right things, but the system doesn't look at that. They don't allow you any time to regroup. You lose your job, you get cut off at the knees all at once. This contributes to the homeless issues. My daughter neither smokes nor drinks nor has loud parties or wild friends. We have family in the city but I come from a large family. They do not have space. Anyone know of a good boarding house (not a shelter) and/or kindly landlord who will take in a women with kids that is safe? I don't want them in a dump. Thanks. Pamela Taylor (Tampa) TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] TCF parades out of town
I see from two separate legal notices in the Strib's A section today that TCF National Bank is moving or maybe has moved its main office to Wayzata. The current main office at 801 Marquette will become (or is already?) a branch office of the bank founded in Minneapolis sometime before the Great Depression. I missed this news before. Has downtown lost TCF jobs then? Did Wayzata tempt TCF to its Lake Street East with tax incentives and other goodies -- or is this just another corporate HQ migrating in the direction of the CEO's residence? (Which in this case I assume is whatever Bill Cooper built after he tore down the Ralph Rapson-designed Dayton House on Lake Minnetonka.) And will next year's be called the TCF Marquette Avenue Branch Holidazzle Parade? Chris Steller Nicollet Island-East Bank TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] No Bikes on Lake Street?
Dave Piehl writes, in part, regarding a lack of bike lanes on Lake Street: My question for project organizers and list members: Is this a done deal? I certainly recognize the space limitations, but firmly believe that a plan that will allegedly serve the area for the next 40 years really needs to include some form of non-automobile transportation. Have bike lanes been rejected out of hand? If so, by whom? Is there a possibility of putting them into the plan? Are alternative transport concepts from other cities and countries being considered, or do we always have to be 20 years behind the curve in Minnesota? [MH] Don't forget, the Greenway is only a block north of Lake and includes pedestrian walkways and bike lanes, and likely some form of mass transit at some point in the future. Michael Hohmann Linden Hills TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] My First Apartment
My first apartment was in 1978, an off-campus efficiency apartment in Detroit and my rent was $125.00. I worked part-time at the student newspaper. Dont remember what I earned, but it wasnt much, maybe $80, with temp work in the summer. I do remember that I had two huge advantages: fairly good savings (which not everyone has) and Social Security payments for college since I had a retired parent (which no one has today). Susan Maricle formerly of Folwell [and Detroit} Bruno, MN __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Affordable Housing - Other Ideas
Ms. Taylor, It appears that you forgot the child support - it probably is at least $500 per month. Maybe that can be increased also. Steve Meldahl Jordan (work) - Original Message - From: Pamela Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Anderson Turpin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:54 AM Subject: RE: [Mpls] Affordable Housing - Other Ideas Vicky, can you sharpen your pencil for an analysis of people with children also? Make sure you include the EITC, Working Family Credit, food stamps, etc. (and day care costs should also be included... wow this gets really complicated, but it's worth doing even if we leave off some categories of people at first). Mark V Anderson Bancroft Neighborhood I would like to know this, too. My daughter was one of a large number of people recently laid off from a bank in Minneapolis. She is a single parent, with a five and a two year old. She has daycare costs to contend with as well. Sharing a apartment with someone is not a real option as, most single people without kids don't want to room with a mom. The kids need their own space. She was making $10 an hour, but now that she is laid off, her subsidized daycare will be taken away. She was not on Section 8, she was cutting corners and doing all the right things, but the system doesn't look at that. They don't allow you any time to regroup. You lose your job, you get cut off at the knees all at once. This contributes to the homeless issues. My daughter neither smokes nor drinks nor has loud parties or wild friends. We have family in the city but I come from a large family. They do not have space. Anyone know of a good boarding house (not a shelter) and/or kindly landlord who will take in a women with kids that is safe? I don't want them in a dump. Thanks. Pamela Taylor (Tampa) TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] No Bikes on Lake Street?
[MH] Don't forget, the Greenway is only a block north of Lake and includes pedestrian walkways and bike lanes, and likely some form of mass transit at some point in the future. I don't believe anyone has forgotten this, but it is a seperate issue from bike access on Lake St. It would be like telling someone in a car that we're closing down Franklin but it doesn't matter because Lake St. is only a mile away. The Greenway is wonderful, but it is not a replacement for access to main streets. In any case, it seems that this is a non-issue since it appears that the ban on Lake St. was just a rumor (unless there's something I've missed, which is certainly possible) Jim McGuire Como _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Realism in Housing: RT and Police-community Relations
Jim Mork wrote: The definition I've heard of affordable housing' is 30 percent of income. A $600 apartment, if ALL utilities are included, costs $7200 a year. $7200/.3 is $24,000 a year. $24,000/2080 = $11.50 an hour. Retail employees don't MAKE $11.50 an hour. And that is what the modal employee does. If you make $7.50 an hour and IF you have 40 hour/week job, you make $15,600. Doing the rest of the math, it means an affordable domicile is $390 a month INCLUDING utilities. So, now which of you geniuses is renting for $390/month? Mark Anderson reply: Jim -- the point you missed is that we were discussing full-time single people, and so the apartment needs to be shared with another person. Then each person only need make $6.75/hour, even based on your dubious maximum of 30% for housing. Back when I was poor, I never even considered renting an apartment by myself, because I knew I couldn't afford it. Concerning the first places I rented as an adult: As I recall, when I was a student in the mid '70's, I usually found a place that cost a bit less than $100/month. Counting work and my social security payments (because my father died), I was probably making about $5000/year. So I was paying less than 30% on housing. Of course I was paying tuition too, and saving money when I wasn't between jobs. On rooming houses: I sure think the prohibition against more than 3 unrelated persons in a residence should be repealed. I think it's basically an anti-poor person law pushed by neighbors who figured that such houses would be party houses. One of the down sides of neighborhood empowerment. Mark Anderson Bancroft TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] New Ethics Code for Minneapolis
I appreciate Ellen Trout's response to the issue I raised about the treatment of elected officials acting as advocates for their constituents under the new proposed ordinance. We are in complete agreement about the intended operation of the new ordinance: that if an elected official needs an exception to city policy on behalf of a constituent, that the city official needs to go to the Council as a whole. My problem is that the language of the ordinance, as proposed, would make it potentially illegal for an elected official to even discuss the matter with city staff, BEFORE staff has an initial chance to respond to a request for an exception to city policy. The ordinance cites as an example of inappropriate influence ASKING a non-elected official or employee to . . . make an exception for a constituent or other individual or organization contrary to existing law or adopted City or departmental policy . .. Proposed Ordinance 15.402(b) (emphasis added). Legally, the difference between asking for an exception and discussing an exception is fairly ambiguous. An explicit request such as I would like an exception for constituent X would be clearly illegal. But what about an elected official who goes to city staff and asks Would you consider an exception for X? - (asking for only for consideration of an exception). Or how about an elected official who goes to city staff and says: This rule as applied to constituent X results in a perverse outcome that undermines the intent of the department's policy - in your professional judgment, is an exception warranted? Because of the ambiguity of what constitutes asking for an exception, an elected official would have to avoid ANY communication with staff about possible exceptions to comply with the ordinance. As a result, the elected official would be forced to make a motion to the entire Council asking for an exception BEFORE talking to staff to see if they would even oppose such an exception. The better policy would be for an elected official to consult with staff ahead of time, so he or she could make a motion for an exception with a staff recommendation. An easier and far less ambiguous way of dealing with this problem is to pass an ordinance prohibiting city staff from making any exception to established city or department policy without the express approval of the entire council. Here is the text of the current proposed ordinance, 15.402(b): An elected local official or the employee of an elected local official shall not inappropriately influence the exercise of professional judgment by the Citys staff. Examples of inappropriate influence by an elected official . . . include asking a non-elected local official or employee to: . . . (2) do a special favor or make an exception for a constituent or other individual or organization contrary to existing law or adopted City or departmental policy; or . . . I would amend this provision as follows: proposed language is [ inside of brackets ] Examples of inappropriate influence by an elected official . . . include [ ordering, directing, instructing, threatening or attempting to coerce ] a non-elected local official or employee to: . . . (2) do a special favor or make an exception for a constituent or other individual or organization contrary to existing law or adopted City or departmental policy; or . . . Greg Abbott Sent from the computer of: Greg Abbott Linden Hills 13th Ward TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] NRP and city affordable housing fund. Some questions?
Jim Graham wrote: This was an example of Neighborhood representatives joining with elected Hennepin County Officials to create a program to give people SUSTAINABLE AFFORDABLE HOMEOWNERSHIP. It complies with the very heart of NRP. It uses a small amount of public money to leverage over 20 times that amount for a redevelopment opportunity. It is a Neighborhood Initiative that stabilizes Neighborhoods and Communities, and it gives economic opportunity to poor people who would not have that opportunity otherwise. It creates affordable housing! It IS the very essence of what NRP was designed to do. The real question should be what motivates those who object? We really need to look closely at those people and determine their reasoning and their future believability. They certainly DO NOT represent either poor people's interests or neighborhoods. Exactly whom do they represent? Mark Anderson response: Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Jim Graham has written paragraph after paragraph (after paragraph) about NRP and neighborhood empowerment and how the neighborhoods can do a much better job than the city spending money, and on and on. Now he's decided that this centralized spending program (which seems to be at the expense of NRP money going to the neighborhoods?) is the greatest thing since sliced bread. What's the difference? Why it's on Jim Graham's agenda, so of course it makes sense! Jim Graham and a couple of other neighborhood folks were there to represent all the poor people in Minneapolis, so anyone against it must have some other hidden agenda, right? You know Jim, I haven't even decided if I agree with the proposal or not, but your sudden turnaround in supporting NRP city-wide initiatives sure smells to me. I think you should explain yourself here. Mark Anderson Bancroft TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Mpls/St.Paul and LGA in the PiPress
Title: Mpls/St.Paul and LGA in the PiPress ANALYSIS: What's best at worst of times? - 03:01 AM CST
Re: [Mpls] New Ethics Code for Minneapolis
I believe this Ethic ordinance is a good thing but has gone way over its intentional boundaries. I am referring to the inclusion of spouses. When I think of some of the committees listed such as CUE, the Disabilities, or Seniors advisory boards and others it just seems too much even for the appointed members to be included - but their spouses - IMHO, is just going too far. Otherwise, most of it seems good. Annie Young East Phillips TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] My First Apartment
My first apartment was on the West Bank in Minneapolis in 1977. I shared an upper duplex with three guys. The rent was $156/month or $39 each per month plus utilities. My second apartment was also on the West Bank in 1979 or so. I shared an upper duplex with one other woman. We paid $198/month or $99/each plus utilities. I moved to Seward (the suburb of the West Bank) in 1981 and have lived in the upper part of the duplex I own since. My mortgage is almost paid off and is 85% covered by the rent from the tenant on the first floor. I feel incredibly lucky to have as affordable of housing as I do. MJ Mueller Seward __ From: Susan Maricle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] My First Apartment Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:02:06 -0800 (PST) My first apartment was in 1978, an off-campus efficiency apartment in Detroit and my rent was $125.00. I worked part-time at the student newspaper. Don?t remember what I earned, but it wasn?t much, maybe $80, with temp work in the summer. I do remember that I had two huge advantages: fairly good savings (which not everyone has) and Social Security payments for college since I had a retired parent (which no one has today). Susan Maricle formerly of Folwell [and Detroit} Bruno, MN __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] My First Apartment
My first apartment was in a more than likely illegal Hippy Habitat located over Richter's Drug on the West Bank ( the hallways were such a maze it became much easier for friends to come up the fire escape and enter through the window). I paid, I believe, $60 a month furnished and with all utilities paid ( there was a pay phone in the hallway which we all mostly shared). I made, again I believe-- memory is hazed by time and maybe some other things, $2.80 an hour working full time at the U. This means my rent was 12% of my gross income and why I was considered rich by most other West Bank denizens circa 1967. I picked up a room mate anyway and rent became perhaps the smallest of my expenses. I know for a fact that no eighteen year old today could even imagine such a carefree existence. That's too bad. It's good to experience a period of cheap and foolish living. Jon Gorder Loring Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] My first apartment
...was a basement efficiency at 2817 Xerxes Ave S. It had hot water pipes running along the ceiling - 120 degrees in the summer. No A/C. The rent was $50 per month - AND I LOVED IT! I couldn't afford a phone, but the isolation drove my father crazy - so he had one installed. Vicky Heller Born in Elliot Park Grew up in Tangletown Cruised Calhoun/Cedar/Isles while a student Wound up in North Oaks Still own some of those first apartments on the West Bank TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] First Apartment
Ah, the good old days. My husband's and my first apartment, in the mid 1960's, was in the Windsor at 3rd and Franklin. Had a huge one bedroom with a walk-in closet off the living room large enough to use as a study. We paid $115 a month including heat and electricity. Both of us were grad students and both of us worked a variety of jobs on and off the campus. Made about $12,000 between the two of us, so our rent with utilities was less than 12% of that. Had more disposable income then than we've had since. Bought a brand new '66 Mustang convert for $2400 and filled up the tank with 25 cents a gallon gas. Dee Long East Isles TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] NRP and city affordable housing fund. Some questions?
Just to clarify here. The NRP affordable housing fund were funds pulled out of the proposed Phase II NRP funding pool to a centralized decision-making process during the time Sharon Sayles Belton was the mayor. That policy was intended to dedicate $4 million a year to affordable housing for a period of 4 years and $1 million a year for commercial corridor development. That decision was made without a neighborhood comment and review period. The approval process for allocation of these funds does require endorsement from the neighborhood where the proposed development is to occur. However, the final decision of which projects are funded are decided by a committee set-up for that purpose that is comprised of city department staff and some neighborhood folks. The current proposal would remove $2 million from the pool set aside for affordable housing development proposals for 2003 and earmark it for use with the affordable housing mortgage guarantee program. These funds were never earmarked for neighborhood NRP plans. Barb Lickness Whittier NRP Staff = Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Housing Issues
Mark Anderson: Jim -- the point you missed is that we were discussing full-time single people I see. So your claim is that ONLY the people in this category can afford market rate housing, and probably ONLY by sharing the apartment. I don't remember seeing this in Vicky's computation. Personally, I think I've said it was a shame that rooming houses and boarding houses are a thing of the past since they DID allow low-income people to pay what they could afford. Maybe the mayor or Gary Schiff or another city official can explain why this cannot be part of the solution to affordable housing (TRULY affordable, not just ivory-tower affordable). Also, why make this assumption of full-time? Lots and lots of people haven't been able to get full-time work since that usually involves benefits and lots of employers shy away from giving benefits. Also, since they don't get benefits, they are stuck with all the costs of medical care and IRAs plus losing out on paid days off. Face it, folks, this isn't your father's labor market. Shifting all the manufacturing offshore has really hurt in the housing area. -- Jim Mork--Cooper Save yourself from this corrupt generationAll who believed were together and had all things in common; they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need. Acts 2:4-45 The disciples determined that according to their ability, each would send relief to the believers. Acts 11:29 From each according to his ability...to each according to his need. Karl Marx Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] My First Apartment
My First Apartment was on W. 28th Street just off 28th and Garfield in the Lyn-Lake Neighborhood. I lived there from January 1998-January 1999 It was a beautiful two bedroom apartment that I shared with one of my fraternity brothers. We paid 650 a month (which I would die to pay again). We had hard wood floors, a glassed in porch and even a little balcony. The basement was terrifying. And our parties were FAMOUS ;-). -Brandon Lacy -Powderhorn Park Chair National Lavender Green Caucus Green Party of the United States Lavender Greens: www.lavendergreens.org Brown Tones: www.brown-tones.curvedspaces.com YouthAction: www.youthaction.net From: Dee Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Minneapolis Issues (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] First Apartment Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:34:36 -0600 Ah, the good old days. My husband's and my first apartment, in the mid 1960's, was in the Windsor at 3rd and Franklin. Had a huge one bedroom with a walk-in closet off the living room large enough to use as a study. We paid $115 a month including heat and electricity. Both of us were grad students and both of us worked a variety of jobs on and off the campus. Made about $12,000 between the two of us, so our rent with utilities was less than 12% of that. Had more disposable income then than we've had since. Bought a brand new '66 Mustang convert for $2400 and filled up the tank with 25 cents a gallon gas. Dee Long East Isles TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] First apt
My first apartment (other than a dorm room) was a 5 bedroom, 4 bath house that I shared with 4 other guys on 100' of lakeshore on Cook's Bay (Lake Minnetonka) just down from Surfside in 1971. 2 of us were fortunate enough to not have to work that first summer ( I had sold a patent on an invention with my partner to a large company) so we had more than alot of fun with our boats etc. The rent was $1,500 per month (only $300 each) which included a cleaning service provided by the owner. To Brandon - you think you were famous for your parties?? Steve Meldahl Jordan (work) TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Affordable Housing available in my N'hood
Jim Mork brought up the valid point that a $600 per month apartment (one bedroom) is still not affordable for those who make less than $11 something an hour. He's right. So here's some affordable housing, courtesy of the Alley News: Apts for rent: Lwr 2BR $495 18th 15th South Lwr 2BR $495 21st 16th South Upr 1BR $425 21st 16th South Upr 2BR $575 28th Bloom South The cheapest of these is $247.50 per person (in the 2BR) not including utilities. I'm assuming that the landlord pays heat and water/garbage, which are the most expensive utilities these days. That's pretty good. Additionally, in response to Mr. Mork who appeared to be jabbing at landlords (asking who provided *truly* affordable housing) I will raise my hand high. My neighbors who live upstairs in my duplex pay $500 per month, and they have 1.5 bedrooms plus a dining room plus laundry plus off-street parking. Their rent doesn't even cover my mortgage, but because they've proven themselves to be nice, trustworthy and quiet neighbors, I am pleased to provide them with as much as I can at a decent price. I have plenty of neighbors who do the same. (Maybe it's because we live in a rough area, and have to have low rent, but I prefer to look at it in terms of building a community based upon friendliness and trust.) At any rate, if someone wants to take advantage of the affordable housing referenced above, take heart in the fact that you'll have me for a neighbor! :) Connie Nompelis Ventura Village __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] my first swingin' bachelorette pad
My first apartment was a 1 bedroom, 1 bath efficiency in an octoplex in Camden for $320/month in 1988. I was working full time making $5.50/hour ($10,560 gross per year) at the time, and I took the bus to work and back - never considered a car the, worked downtown and likely couldn't have afforded one anyway what with repairs and maintenance. My rent credit that came in August was usually about $500, and I was single at the time. There were times it was tough - I remember paying my bills the day before getting paid and by the time I deposited my bi-weekly check I had $7 liquid to my name. I honestly don't know how I did it. Shopped at thrift stores for clothes for work mainly, and ate alot of maccheese and ramen noodles I guess. By the time I moved about three years later, I was making about $7.25/hour and the rent hadn't increased in that time. It was a clean, comfortable little basement apartment, sans the incoming roach swarm, and all the other renters were female seniors at the time. They told me I was a 'test case' because I was only 22 at the time, and they didn't want some rowdy, party-girl causing trouble or 'humbuggin' (a direct quote from the landlord.) I didn't...much. Upon purchasing my first home, I was making about 28K/year. I had $9000 from a divorce settlement to put down, and bought at 5.99% fixed in 2000. My house payments were about $530/month then and I got a lot of a fixer-upper house for the money - almost 3 bedrooms, 2-story, but built in '21 though so very few closets. Double garage, creepy basement to store stuff in. It was recently appraised for $113 but I'm sure if we sold we'd likely be able to get more for it - (God willing and the creek don't rise.) As an aside, a house in my current neighborhood that looks as if three different additions were added over time, using three different materials was recently listed at $113K. It looks kinda rickety. There's a wire and wood fence similar to something you might see on an emu or llama farm and it's set way back on a corner lot. I thought the price was way too high due to the condition of the property, but in a couple weeks someone overbid and it sold for $140,000! Amazingly affordable are two condo units (they may have already sold) at the old Bremer school building on Lowry Emerson. They listed a one bedroom 1 bath for $59K and a two bedroom for $79K. It's a secure building and is likely the lowest priced ownership housing I've seen recently. Surprisingly, two similar units at the Bremer were for sale when I was looking for about the same price. I often wish I would have opted for a condo. No mowing, shoveling, schlepping. I've always loved that building but have never been inside to see the actual units... Jill Harmon Cleveland List members, what are your recollections of your first apt, house, and how much of your pay it consumed? Craig Miller Former Affordable Housing Provider Living in Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] My first place
My first place was part of a tri-plex on Taylor and Spring St in NE Minneapolis. It had 4BRs and I shared it with three of my fraternity brothers. Rent was $1060 per month. This was 1996-1997, my last year of college. I was lucky to have a good engineering internship for most of that period that paid $14.50 per hour and I worked about 25 hours per week. So rent was about 25% of what I took home. My second place was a 2BR apartment on Larpenteur Ave and Cumberland St. in St. Paul that I shared with one of the guys from the first place. Rent there was $600 per month. This was 1997-1998. During that period, I worked for a nonprofit environmental advocacy group, making $12 per hour but working 35-40 hours per week. So rent was again about 25% of what I took home. Now I live alone in a pretty cool old house in Windom Park that was built in 1906. Mortgage is $100K - monthly payment, including insurance and taxes is $820 per month (I pay a bit more per month since my other expenses are pretty low). I work for the State as a chemist and take-home pay now is $2200 per month, so I'm up to 37%, but now I'm stuck with a grumpy old cat that probably would start plotting my demise if I tried to move him someplace else. My old roommate lives a few blocks from me with his wife (no kids). They're renting a duplex unit and paying around $1000 a month, I think. My sister and her family rent a duplex unit a couple blocks from me in Audubon Park. They have a 5-year old boy, so it's a 2BR place. Rent there I think is $1100. I feel pretty damn lucky. Mark Snyder Windom Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Fw: [Mpls] Realism in Housing
I need to correct one number below. Each person sharing the $600 apartment need make only $5.75/hour, not $6.75/hour as I wrote below. I need to sharpen my own pencil a little bit. David - please forgive me for my 3rd post today -- I felt I had to correct my error ASAP. Mark Anderson Bancroft - Original Message - From: Anderson Turpin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [Mpls] Realism in Housing: RT and Police-community Relations Jim Mork wrote: The definition I've heard of affordable housing' is 30 percent of income. A $600 apartment, if ALL utilities are included, costs $7200 a year. $7200/.3 is $24,000 a year. $24,000/2080 = $11.50 an hour. Retail employees don't MAKE $11.50 an hour. And that is what the modal employee does. If you make $7.50 an hour and IF you have 40 hour/week job, you make $15,600. Doing the rest of the math, it means an affordable domicile is $390 a month INCLUDING utilities. So, now which of you geniuses is renting for $390/month? Mark Anderson reply: Jim -- the point you missed is that we were discussing full-time single people, and so the apartment needs to be shared with another person. Then each person only need make $6.75/hour, even based on your dubious maximum of 30% for housing. Back when I was poor, I never even considered renting an apartment by myself, because I knew I couldn't afford it. Concerning the first places I rented as an adult: As I recall, when I was a student in the mid '70's, I usually found a place that cost a bit less than $100/month. Counting work and my social security payments (because my father died), I was probably making about $5000/year. So I was paying less than 30% on housing. Of course I was paying tuition too, and saving money when I wasn't between jobs. On rooming houses: I sure think the prohibition against more than 3 unrelated persons in a residence should be repealed. I think it's basically an anti-poor person law pushed by neighbors who figured that such houses would be party houses. One of the down sides of neighborhood empowerment. Mark Anderson Bancroft TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] My first pad...percentage of income...
I forgot to include thatat the time I moved in to my first apartment in Lyn-Lake, I was making 6.53 an hour at the University of Minnesota, and I was limited to working 15 hours/week. I also received about 3000 in excess financial aid money that I used for rent, so my total income for the year was about $8000 before taxes. I paid roughly 60% of my income to rent. There was an entire summer that I lived off of white rice and steamed broccoli. That same summer, in order to make rent in August (most likely the most horrific month for a student at the U...), I had to sell my tv, vcr, and about 200 CDs. My next apartment was 850 a month, and I paid 450 dollars of that. That was in 2000, but at the time I was making 25K a year, so roughly 22% of my income in rent. Things have definately improved. Students dependent on financial aid who went to school year round (as I did), should be running the US economy. WE can survive on anything. -Brandon Lacy Campos -Powderhorn Park Chair National Lavender Green Caucus Green Party of the United States Lavender Greens: www.lavendergreens.org Brown Tones: www.brown-tones.curvedspaces.com YouthAction: www.youthaction.net From: j c harmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] my first swingin' bachelorette pad Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:45:07 -0600 My first apartment was a 1 bedroom, 1 bath efficiency in an octoplex in Camden for $320/month in 1988. I was working full time making $5.50/hour ($10,560 gross per year) at the time, and I took the bus to work and back - never considered a car the, worked downtown and likely couldn't have afforded one anyway what with repairs and maintenance. My rent credit that came in August was usually about $500, and I was single at the time. There were times it was tough - I remember paying my bills the day before getting paid and by the time I deposited my bi-weekly check I had $7 liquid to my name. I honestly don't know how I did it. Shopped at thrift stores for clothes for work mainly, and ate alot of maccheese and ramen noodles I guess. By the time I moved about three years later, I was making about $7.25/hour and the rent hadn't increased in that time. It was a clean, comfortable little basement apartment, sans the incoming roach swarm, and all the other renters were female seniors at the time. They told me I was a 'test case' because I was only 22 at the time, and they didn't want some rowdy, party-girl causing trouble or 'humbuggin' (a direct quote from the landlord.) I didn't...much. Upon purchasing my first home, I was making about 28K/year. I had $9000 from a divorce settlement to put down, and bought at 5.99% fixed in 2000. My house payments were about $530/month then and I got a lot of a fixer-upper house for the money - almost 3 bedrooms, 2-story, but built in '21 though so very few closets. Double garage, creepy basement to store stuff in. It was recently appraised for $113 but I'm sure if we sold we'd likely be able to get more for it - (God willing and the creek don't rise.) As an aside, a house in my current neighborhood that looks as if three different additions were added over time, using three different materials was recently listed at $113K. It looks kinda rickety. There's a wire and wood fence similar to something you might see on an emu or llama farm and it's set way back on a corner lot. I thought the price was way too high due to the condition of the property, but in a couple weeks someone overbid and it sold for $140,000! Amazingly affordable are two condo units (they may have already sold) at the old Bremer school building on Lowry Emerson. They listed a one bedroom 1 bath for $59K and a two bedroom for $79K. It's a secure building and is likely the lowest priced ownership housing I've seen recently. Surprisingly, two similar units at the Bremer were for sale when I was looking for about the same price. I often wish I would have opted for a condo. No mowing, shoveling, schlepping. I've always loved that building but have never been inside to see the actual units... Jill Harmon Cleveland List members, what are your recollections of your first apt, house, and how much of your pay it consumed? Craig Miller Former Affordable Housing Provider Living in Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
[Mpls] First Apartment
I love this subject thread - it has made me think about things I haven't thought about in years. My first apartment in Minneapolis was at 32nd and Dupont, shared with two others and cost $120.00 a month so my share was $40.00. Okay, so our apartment was a converted attic on the third floor and the kitchen which we shared with the second floor renters was on the second floor. No air conditioning so it was hot in the summer, but the bus was only two blocks away and none of the three roommates had a car. I took a job at Control Data with my college degree as a Clerk Typist for the grand sum of $250/mo (rent was 16% of my income). I seemed to have lots of money, beer was cheap, so were clothes, maybe not having a car was a blessing. And the company picked up the whole tab for health insurance. I handled the employee benefits at Control Data and at that time the cost to the company for a single employee's health coverage was $3.69. Coverage for a family was about $11.00 I think with the company picking up most of it. Now those are shocking numbers and I think one of the reasons why so many things are way too expensive today.. It was a fun time. Jan Del Calzo Lynnhurst
Re: [Mpls] My First Apartment
My first place to live away from my clan was living at the YWCA in downtown Cincinnati. I earned $39.47/wk as a file clerk at the Welfare office. Room and board at the Y was $13.50/wk. That was two meals a day, six days. Shared a shower/bathroom with half a floor, but had my own room, something new to me. Lived on the 9th floor. Boys could come to visit in the parlor on the first floor. Girls, of course, could come upstairs. I walked to work, only about three blocks away. If I left downtown I took the bus. I didn't have a car, but then I didn't know how to drive either. We window-shopped for fun. Or we acted as ushers at the symphony or the Schubert where I saw Patti Duke and Ann Bancroft in the Miracle Worker among other plays. In the summer we bussed up to Mt. Adams and listened to the opera for free since it was an outdoor production. It was also held at the zoo's outdoor amphitheater so particularly poignant arias were accompanied by elephants trumpeting and the big cats roaring. We thought that was the best part and graded the worth of the singers by how much commotion the animals were making. WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] My First Apartment
My 1st apartment was a homestead cabin 5 miles through the woods from the nearest neighbor. No electricity, a hand pump (and outhouse) out back. Rent was my sweat equity in fixing-up an old house that hadn't been lived in for forty-odd years. When I think back on it, it makes me realize the difference between the things I "need" and the things I "want". I would have to agree however, that for rent to be truly affordable (in an urban environment), it should not exceed30% of the gross household income. Dennis Plante JordanThe new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] First Apt. stories
This thread has been a breath of fresh air. Kind of like the restaurant one a few weeks back. For me what is interesting is that I didn't live here in the late 60's, early 70's but have heard all the old stories through my years in the days of food co-op organizing. It is a gas reading all these stories about those of you who have been here for a very long time. I didn't get to Minneapolis until 1974 and lived off 15th and Franklin. I have no idea what the rent was other than cheap by today's standards and it is similar to all the stories you have been telling. The sharing of roommates, friends and visitors. Yes, those were the days. So can someone tell me what I missed the last 30 years - what got so whacked out that we watch Bowling at Columbine and wonder why our society has become so afraid and fearful from the days when we all loved one another. I used to dream ( and not very long ago either) about a world in balance. What happened? The chemicals have gotten to us in more ways than one...we are a sick, sick place to be at the moment. Can the planet sustain all this anger, fear and anxiety. Times seem to be very tough - this must have been about what our parents and grandparents were feeling in the late 1930's. Didn't mean to go to a depressing note... but thinking about our wild, wonderful years when gasoline was .25 a gallon - it certainly makes you wonder - where we went wrong. Fun to hear what you all were up to way back then. Annie Young East Phillips TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
