Re: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP
Dennis Plante wrote: I grew-up in a land far away from here. However, the democratic party where I grew-up felt as strongly about the creation of job opportunities for disadvantaged minorities as it did in its support of unions. Under this set of circumstances, Don's campaign would have been applauded for their support of a minority-owned business, instead of criticized for causing a political incorrectness. WM: To me it isn't an issue of political correctness in the sense of being dismissed as trivial. The man was coming to the Democratic Farmer LABOR Party asking for its endorsement for public office. It is incumbent on anyone asking for its endorsement to give people their propers. And the party asks little enough in asking for a union bug on a candidate's literature. At the same time, it is justifiable to strenuously challenge any industry's DFL labor contingent if it isn't putting it's money where its mouth is, and insist that their contribution is to keep steadily pushing the envelope by creating more well paid union jobs and making sure that minority people are amply represented in their unions That's a DFL precept. It seems rather interesting to me that it is viewed as more politically correct to contract with a union print shop located in St. Paul (or elsewhere), than a minority print shop located in the 3rd ward. Especially when one of the most significant issues we face in the 3rd ward, is the creation of jobs. Where does common sense come in to play? Or is being politically correct more important? If so, I'll be sure and mention it to the young adults milling around on the street corners in my neighborhood the next time I drive by them. I've never liked the term 'politically correct.' It's too easy to use it to dismiss people and ideas. However, it is about acceptable behavior at a formal vetting. As a DFLer I do expect reasonable manners and graciousness from candidates when they come to me requesting my endorsement and I expect it of myself when I come before my compatriots as a candidate. I have been an endorsed DFL candidate, though I lost the election. (A status I have learned since that I should be very grateful for. It is no fun cutting budgets, no one at the public library, board, staff, or patron is enjoying the process.) I took a bath, brushed my teeth, got a haircut, wore a dress!--a rare event in my life--had a union bug on every little piece of lit. Had a clear presentation of my goals and how I expected, as a board member for the jurisdiction to achieve them. I felt it was a way to show my respect for the DFL and its achievements and I wanted them to see that I was ready for prime time and wouldn't disgrace them in public. I wanted something truly precious from them, their votes, their trust. I don't think they were asking too much of me in exchange. According DFL compatriots their proper respect for having brought the 8-hour work day, better wages, job protection and benefits to millions of families, including my clansmen and women, seems like a fair request. I think about it as somewhat akin to the ritual of bringing a gift for one's host at a dinner party. It's giving people proper respect. By the convention, candidates and their supporters should have spoken to all the interested parties (unions, sub-caucuses, neighborhood organizations, etc.). Convention Day is a formal presentation by the candidate to request endorsement. It may engender long, excruciating debate, but the candidate has to remain both impassioned and unflappable. It's a formal vetting by the membership's elected representatives. Failing to understand the difference between a formal vetting and perhaps, I'm guessing here, not having laid any groundwork for it, may have cost Mr. Samuels an endorsement. I don't like to see that happen to a good potential council member, or trustee, or commissioner or etc. Plus, parts of the community of the 3rd ward put Mr. Samuels forward as a possible candidate, and since they have the most exposure to Mr. Samuels, they have had time to get a good look at the man. As a DFLer and a delegate, I value those insights in helping me make the best decision for my ward. As an everyday DFLer, a voter but not a delegate, my elected delegates are going to have to answer to me if the candidate wins and turns out to be a real dud. I'm going to have a few words to say about how disappointed I am in their performance. WizardMarks, Central _ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Protect your PC - Click here http://g.msn.com/8HMXEN/2024 for McAfee.com VirusScan Online ___ Minneapolis Issues
[Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP
NWA: Dave Brauer must not fly if he doesnt consider NWA a Minneapolis issue. Man, if they fold, we will lose HALF our service. And it will have severe effect on the Minneapolis economy. Much as I hate to say it, the city and state have to act as though they care about NWA. It was a stupid mistake to let NWA acquire such a position of dominance, in the same sense that it is a mistake to have a one-product economy. But the reality right now is that we let it happen, NWA is sickly, and we'd better think of how we can help preserve the business. Don Samuels: Martin Sabo is a mainstream DFLer, just like Olin Moore. If you think you can find some self-made immigrant who can do Sabo's job better than he has done it, show me. I don't know that much about Olin Moore, but the fact that he has connections that Don Samuels doesnt have has got to be the WEAKEST argument for supporting Don Samuels that I can think. This city needs all the connected it people it can get. You don't wait till you're sick to find a doctor, and you don't wait till you need connections to make sure you have them. A guy who understands the plight of the struggling is not as valuable as a guy who can help ameliorate those struggles. Thousands of people have gotten paying jobs through Sabo's efforts over the years. How many has Don Samuels helped employ? Make any choice you want, but at least think about the choices in a realistic way. NRP: I shake my head at people who want to trash programs that have achieved positive results. What kind of results would the alternative scenario have produced? Don't trade something for nothing because you find the something disappointing. That's like quitting your job without having another one. However bad the job was, is nothing better? -- Jim Mork--Cooper War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our Country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. Gen. William T. Sherman (1864) Letter to the Mayor of Atlanta. Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP
Olin Moore has touted his connections in Washington and his relationship with the people in power as a plus, which it may well be. I don't think (or at least I hope) that Mr. Sabo's continued hard work for his constituent's depends on those constituents in the Third Ward voting Olin Moore to the City Council. I know the political system revolves on trading favors, but Mr. Sabo promised to represent us before most of us ever heard of Olin Moore. To withdraw that representation or diminish it in any way would be less than honorable on Mr. Sabo's part. Is this going to happen if Moore isn't elected? Will Mr. Sabo refuse to listen to Don Samuels if he becomes the Third Ward Council member? Will his office refuse to 'ameliorate' our struggles? I doubt that this will happen, but I wonder how many people support Mr. Moore because they feel the Third Ward will tick off the powers that be if we don't 'vote Moore'? Anne McCandless Jordan - Original Message - From: Jim Mork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:45 PM Subject: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP NWA: Dave Brauer must not fly if he doesnt consider NWA a Minneapolis issue. Man, if they fold, we will lose HALF our service. And it will have severe effect on the Minneapolis economy. Much as I hate to say it, the city and state have to act as though they care about NWA. It was a stupid mistake to let NWA acquire such a position of dominance, in the same sense that it is a mistake to have a one-product economy. But the reality right now is that we let it happen, NWA is sickly, and we'd better think of how we can help preserve the business. Don Samuels: Martin Sabo is a mainstream DFLer, just like Olin Moore. If you think you can find some self-made immigrant who can do Sabo's job better than he has done it, show me. I don't know that much about Olin Moore, but the fact that he has connections that Don Samuels doesnt have has got to be the WEAKEST argument for supporting Don Samuels that I can think. This city needs all the connected it people it can get. You don't wait till you're sick to find a doctor, and you don't wait till you need connections to make sure you have them. A guy who understands the plight of the struggling is not as valuable as a guy who can help ameliorate those struggles. Thousands of people have gotten paying jobs through Sabo's efforts over the years. How many has Don Samuels helped employ? Make any choice you want, but at least think about the choices in a realistic way. NRP: I shake my head at people who want to trash programs that have achieved positive results. What kind of results would the alternative scenario have produced? Don't trade something for nothing because you find the something disappointing. That's like quitting your job without having another one. However bad the job was, is nothing better? -- Jim Mork--Cooper War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our Country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. Gen. William T. Sherman (1864) Letter to the Mayor of Atlanta. Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP
From: "Jim Mork" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:45:42 -0600 JMDon Samuels: Martin Sabo is a mainstream DFLer, just like Olin Moore. If you think you can find some "self-made" immigrant who can do Sabo's job better than he has done it, show me. I don't know that much about Olin Moore, but the fact that he has connections that Don Samuels doesnt have has got to be the WEAKEST argument for supporting Don Samuels that I can think. This city needs all the connected it people it can get. You don't wait till you're sick to find a doctor, and you don't wait till you need connections to make sure you have them. A guy who understands the plight of the struggling is not as valuable as a guy who can help ameliorate those struggles. Thousands of people have gotten paying jobs through Sabo's efforts over the years. How many has Don Samuels helped employ? Make any choice you want, but at least think about the choices in a realistic way. As we speak, I just returned from a fundraiserat Elsies' for Don Samuels. I think it's very safe to say he doesn't lack "connections", or support for that matter. Being able to pick-up the phone and easily connect with a decision maker (such as Sabo) is w/o a doubt, an important commodity. However, knowing what to do to achieve a positive outcome, once the phone is answered, is every bit as important. One very important issue (in this race) thatCONTINUES to be overlooked, is experience. Not of the political type, but real-life. As these are the lessions that really matter, if I'm not mistaken. Looking at this objectively, Don is 53 and has in his adult life, lived through the Viet Nam War, the Gulf War and numerous "minor" skirmishes in between. He's seen what, two full-fledged recessions and numerous other economic down-turns? Olinon the other hand, has cut his professional teeth during the relatively good economic times of the 90's. While I have no doubt Olin is a nice guy and is very well-connected to Senator Sabo, I for one, would like to see a more broad work experience prior to electing him to represent me in the 3rd ward. Dennis Plante Jordan Jim Mork--Cooper Min Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP
dp Because this is a municipal election for a council person and it's been mentioned thatpolitical connections are important, it'd be interesting for members of this list to come-up with the 10-12 most influential individuals residing within (or very close to) the boundaries of the 3rd ward and determine where these 10-12 individuals stood regarding candidate endorsement for this election. Afterall, it would seem that these 10-12 individuals would be both well-informed AND key in lobbying for future considerations in the ward, would it not? Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Jim Mork" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:45:42 -0600 NWA: Don Samuels: Martin Sabo is a mainstream DFLer, just like Olin Moore. If you think you can find some "self-made" immigrant who can do Sabo's job better than he has done it, show me. I don't know that much about Olin Moore, but the fact that he has connections that Don Samuels doesnt have has got to be the WEAKEST argument for supporting Don Samuels that I can think. This city needs all the connected it people it can get. You don't wait till you're sick to find a doctor, and you don't wait till you need connections to make sure you have them. A guy who understands the plight of the struggling is not as valuable as a guy who can help ameliorate those struggles. Thousands of people have gotten paying jobs through Sabo's efforts over the years. How many has Don Samuels helped employ? Make any choice you want, but at least think about the choices in a realistic way. -- Jim Mork--Cooper "War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our Country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out." Gen. William T. Sherman (1864) Letter to the Mayor of Atlanta. Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP
Jim, I don't believe that anyone is making the argument that Don as a self-made immigrant can do Sabo's job better then he has. Don is running for City Council -- not Congress. He has no aspirations to run for Congress, and does not include his perspective on congressional issues as part of his campaign platform. Nor do I believe that anyone is making the argument to support Don because of connections he may or may not have. While Don is very proud to have earned support from his potential peers as diverse as Green Party's Natalie Johnson Lee, DFL's Barb Johnson, and Independent Barrett Lane. In the end he wants to earn the endorsement of a majority of voters in the ward. He wants to earn their support because of who he is and his personal, professional and volunteer experience. On the question of making jobs -- who has made more? It depends on how you think jobs are made. If jobs are made by the government: then yes, Martin Sabo has made far more jobs then Don. If jobs are made in the private sector: Then Don's 12 years in corporate America and 11 years as a small business owner has resulted in far more people going home with paychecks to pay the rent, the mortgage, the food bill and medical insurance. Either way - government or private sector -- Don has been part of far more economic development then his opponent -- who is NOT Martin Sabo but Martin Sabo's constituent outreach person. For many it is Don's real world experience of making jobs, balancing budgets and advocating for his employees that make Don such an appealing candidate to fight for the Third Ward in these trying economic times. And I think that is a very realistic reason to choose one candidate over another. Joseph Barisonzi Lyndale BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Barisonzi;Joseph FN:Joseph Barisonzi ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ORG:CommunityLeader.com TITLE:Community Knowledge Specialist TEL;WORK;VOICE:612-518-5536 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20021022T222414Z END:VCARD
Re: [Mpls] NWA; Don Samuels;NRP
Joseph Barisonzi wrote: In the end he [Mr. Don Samuels] wants to earn the endorsement of a majority of voters in the ward. He wants to earn their support because of who he is and his personal, professional and volunteer experience. WM: Like a fool, I'm putting my two cents in the middle of a fight not my own. However, caveats galore, I want to make a point about the DFL as a loyal member. (It also speaks to one of my major reasons for having stayed in this inhospitable climate for thirty years.) The DFL needs some loving care at the moment but Samuels' v. Moore illustrates the point. Were I a resident of the Third Ward, my inclination would be to vote for Mr. Samuels' precisely because, as a constituent person for Mr. Sabo, Mr. Moore makes a less inviting candidate. I'm very happy with Martin Sabo as my representative and I have always been treated very respectfully and kindly by his staff. But even in constituent issues, Mr. Moore's view is from within the power of the feds about what are federal issues. However, Mr. Samuels' has made a mistake in not having an adequate public explanation for why he would not go to a union shop. According to Joe Barisonzi in a series of off-list e-mails, Mr. Samuels wanted a Third Ward printer for his candidate materials. Understandable; he's running for a Third Ward seat. However, when he went to at least one union printer, the entire plant was white, from the manager down to the heavy lifters. I checked that out, he was correct about that shop. Were I Mr. Samuels I would not spend my and other people's hard earned money someplace where, apparently, I would not be welcome as an employee in the year 2002. I would send that information in the form of the letter to the DFL, were I a candidate wanting endorsement. And I would make that part of my speech during the endorsement process. e.g., Ladies and gentlemen, you will notice that there is no union bug on my literature. I am a democrat and I support organized labor, but I will not support a union printer who has not succeeded in attracting even one qualified member of a minority community to work for his company in the 21st century. I cannot, in conscience as a DFLer, not hold all of us to our stated ideals. Would he have my vote as a delegate? In a heartbeat. Were I Mr. Samuels at this point in time, I would publish a letter to the DFL apologizing for failing to be candid as their potential endorsee. Had I been a delegate, I would have felt that Mr. Samuels had already discounted my vote by failing to be candid on something as important as keeping my party on track. Too, I suspect Mr. Samuels of having been given bad advice by his campaign committee, knowing Joe Barisonzi. Joe, you do have a tendency, verily more than a tendency, to be arrogant and careless of respecting other points of view among DFLers, even when asking for their help. WizardMarks, Central ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
