Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
In a message dated 3/26/2001 1:10:22 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is a prime example of how factually bankrupt this green movement is. To borrow a phrase from e-commerce, "You haven't sold squat!" Perhaps once the green party is more than a few county and park board seats and a left-wing Billy Graham filling stadiums to hear the gospel of socialism, protectionism and marginalization we will stop making fun of the piddly little party that was. Regards, Evan I am deeply offended by Evan's above post. This is pure mudslinging and insult. The Green Party exists in over 87 countries with the US being the newest and weakest (where we already have major party status in about half of our states--since filing as a political party only 7 years ago). The Green Party is the largest (and still largest growing) social political movement in the world. The Democratic Party is already a dwarf compared to the Green Party. Before people make ignorant comments about the Green Party, please learn the facts. Chris Allison Green Party of MN Coordinating Committee, elected Ward 6 - Whittier, active ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: RE: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
If Brauer in fact did call Dean a name, he would have violated a list rule and hence be deserving of censure. On the remark, permit me to say that I first met Dean back in the late 60s or was it the early 70s when Dean was one of the originators of the North Country Coop - he even let me put some of our Jeruselum Artichokes in the store. Dean can be called a hippie and I suspect he would wear that badge proudly. Brauer owes Dean a public apology if he did say what this post alleges. David Brauer posted: snip I view Dean as a Nellie type snip Come on, David. Dean Z might be a *little* effeminate, but calling him a nellie type is just taking it a little too far! David Finke Crack Alley John Ferman Harriet Avenue Kingfield Neighborhood Minneapolis Ward 10 Pct 10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: RE: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
I think David was having a little joke at my ambiguous phrasing. Of course, I meant Dean was like Nellie in that they have worked within the DFL and outside of it. David Brauer King Field - Ward 10 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of ferma001 Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:28 AM Cc: Mpls list Subject: Re: RE: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion If Brauer in fact did call Dean a name, he would have violated a list rule and hence be deserving of censure. On the remark, permit me to say that I first met Dean back in the late 60s or was it the early 70s when Dean was one of the originators of the North Country Coop - he even let me put some of our Jeruselum Artichokes in the store. Dean can be called a hippie and I suspect he would wear that badge proudly. Brauer owes Dean a public apology if he did say what this post alleges. David Brauer posted: snip I view Dean as a Nellie type snip Come on, David. Dean Z might be a *little* effeminate, but calling him a nellie type is just taking it a little too far! David Finke Crack Alley John Ferman Harriet Avenue Kingfield Neighborhood Minneapolis Ward 10 Pct 10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
In a message dated 3/25/01 7:42:29 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you substituted the word Green in this thread with the word Republican, is there any question that DFLers would NOT allow participation in conventions by the means described in any of this thread? I wonder why the Greens, now another competing major party in this state, deserve to be treated any differently than we would treat the Republicans, or the Independence Party? Will someone state a rational reason? The DFL is not a public utility to be used when and where people feel like it as a pipeline to public opinion leaders. It is a private, membership organization. Green party members should earn their own organization instead of living off the DFL. Bert Black King Field I have to disagree with this. The DFL is actually a public membership affiliation. It is not a fraternal or masonic organization, where you engage in hidden rituals to test your worthiness, it is a collection of ideas and principles set to guide the perspective from which a politician or political person operates. You align yourself with a party because their ideals or principles reflect yours to some extent. And if you truly believe it is not a public utility, see how many politicians show up at caucuses without their friends and relatives vying to be delegates to create a base of support. It is, in essence, both things. However, a deeper principle exists here. A party is created because someone believes that a certain set of values need to be represented and are not. How can anyone who believes in democracy, citizenship, or any manner of free speech denounce someone for that? You don't have to agree with the Green Party or the Republican Party, or the Independence Party but making sweeping indictments of the membership curtails those same freedoms that the DFL states that it represents. Why should the Greens be treated any differently? They are closer to the ideals of the DFL than the Republican party is,and no one operates in a vacuum. And if you're going to develop consensus with anyone, they are the most likely party with which to do so. More to the point, however, they shouldn't, because we should be working together across party lines to deal with the issues at hand. We spend more time shoring up defenses, and fighting against neighbors because they are Republicans or Greens, when we should be seeking common ground, and divining means to work together on solving crises. The more we leverage our defenses, the more we denounce ideas because the come from a Republican or a Green, the less we get done. We have a city with real problems in affordable housing, crime, economic development, racial profiling,etc. We don't have the time to be fighting someone because they believe a different label represents them better, we have to find common ground and work together so that we can develop clear, sustainable solutions that everyone can support and that won't be torn down or attacked in a year because it came from someone from another party. Jonathan Palmer Stevens Square-Loring Heights Leadership Does Matter! www.jonathanpalmer.org
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
Apparently, my Microsoft - Mpls. DFL analogy needs a little additional explaining. Here goes: Microsoft's browser -- used to surf the Web -- got to be dominant because it came pre-loaded with 95% of all PC's sold. Substituting Netscape's was theoretically possible, but practically impossible. Numerous, tricky steps were involved that made it impossible for all but the most computer-savvy. (Trust me on this: if changing "12:00" on your VCR is a "1" in difficulty, swapping browsers is about a "9.99"). Adding to people's sense of infuriation is that many of the necessary steps to switch were either hidden or boobytrapped by Microsoft. Microsoft then brazenly claimed that people had "free choice" because people could always go get Netscape's browser. The DFL's selection process seems equally "pre-loaded"; SSB is the pre-installed "default," and any challenger has to overcome very long odds and procedural boobytraps. Perhaps another analogy is better: the incumbent (Microsoft) methodically helped create a very unlevel playing field for competitors, even as it disingenuously claimed that the field was perfectly flat. I admittedly don't know what SSB has said or done about the DFL delegate selection process, but I'm going to guess she hasn't exactly been an outspoken critic. Everything clear now??? Ross Kaplan Fulton __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
I just counted the numbers on the sign-in sheets. 96 people registered out of 120 possible delegate slots. That's 80% turnout. We have to remember that these Ward organizations are not as large as Senate District Conventions but are a more focussed, neighborhood centered group. Some folks left when their candidate had a poor showing on the first ballot, but there is no rule against that. The gym was quite full of people anyway, with large numbers of visitors from the Green Party, for example, who were handing out buttons and literature for their candidate. At any one time there were probably 100 to 200 people there. I wonder how many people are involved in the Republican endorsement process for the 6th Ward City Council for example? Is it more or less than 96? David Finke SD61 Chair Central Bert Black writes: The DFL is not a public utility to be used when and where people feel like it as a pipeline to public opinion leaders. It is a private, membership organization. Green party members should earn their own organization instead of living off the DFL. Funny This is the argument the Boy Scouts used to defend their right to chose their own membership--freedom of association. The real contradiction here is the DFL is a victim of its own success. In Minneapolis politicians feel that the only way to get elected is to run as a Dem--which means running as a "DFL member" or as "DFL endorsed" And basically we have a one party town. Holding it against candidates who run against DFL endorsement in wards where 50 or so delegates at the ward conventions give a candidate the endorsement is ludicrous. It's especially ludicrous when you look at the way the Minneapolis DFL runs its delegate selection process for city races. It seems that the St Paul model would work better--and I think that is what David Brauer's resolution stated. I also would like to hear the policy differences between the candidates in the ward elections. In Ward 8 there are 3 candidates running in the primary. In ward 6 there are at least 3 people running in the primary. In 6th ward I think there is an off chance that the DFL endorsed candidate won't make it through the primary. Eva Eva Young Central ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
David, However the pool of possible delegates was already limited to the number of delegates each precinct in the 6th Ward sent to the Senate District Conventions in 2000. More likely than not, all of the delegate spots weren't filled at the Senate District convention so the Ward Convention pool of potential delegates has already been limited by that earlier turnout for the Senate Distrcit Convention in 2000. That is why I believe the possible number of delegates for St. Paul Ward Conventions is so much greater than the Mpls Ward conventions. We start with a clean slate each year while in Mpls you have been locked into only seating delegates who should up last year. The seats that were empty in 2000 have to remain empty even if there are people that would be interested in filling the empty delegate slots because of their interest in the city elections. That's bad for the DFL to be turning people away who want to participate in the endorsement process. The DFLowes candidates competing for the endorsement a level playing field and a fair process if they expect candidates to honor the endorsement. I don't believe the Mpls City endorsement process meets that standard. It's a system stacked in favor of the incumbents.Incumbents should beheld accountable before being re-elected. If the endorsement process doesn't allow for that to occur becausesupporters of the incumbent are more likely to be in the delgate pool the systemisunfair to challengers. Dennis Hill St. Paul DFL'er Ward 2 - West 7th Street - Original Message - From:David Finke Sent:Monday, March 26, 2001 5:30 PM To:Eva Young Cc:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion I just counted the numbers on the sign-in sheets.96 people registered out of 120 possible delegateslots. That's 80% turnout. We have to rememberthat these Ward organizations are not as largeas Senate District Conventions but are a morefocussed, neighborhood centered group.Some folks left when their candidate had a poorshowing on the first ballot, but there is norule against that. The gym was quite full ofpeople anyway, with large numbers of visitorsfrom the Green Party, for example, who were handingout buttons and literature for their candidate.At any one time there were probably 100 to 200people there.I wonder how many people are involved in theRepublican endorsement process for the 6th WardCity Council for example? Is it more or less than96?David FinkeSD61 ChairCentralBert Black writes:The DFL is not a public utility to be used when and where people feel likeit as a pipeline to public opinion leaders. It is a private, membershiporganization. Green party members should earn their own organization insteadof living off the DFL.Funny This is the argument the Boy Scouts used to defend their rightto chose their own membership--freedom of association. The realcontradiction here is the DFL is a victim of its own success. InMinneapolis politicians feel that the only way to get elected is to run asa Dem--which means running as a "DFL member" or as "DFL endorsed" Andbasically we have a one party town.Holding it against candidates who run against DFL endorsement in wardswhere 50 or so delegates at the ward conventions give a candidate theendorsement is ludicrous. It's especially ludicrous when you look at theway the Minneapolis DFL runs its delegate selection process for city races. It seems that the St Paul model would work better--and I think that iswhat David Brauer's resolution stated.I also would like to hear the policy differences between the candidates inthe ward elections. In Ward 8 there are 3 candidates running in theprimary. In ward 6 there are at least 3 people running in the primary. In6th ward I think there is an off chance that the DFL endorsed candidatewon't make it through the primary.EvaEva YoungCentral___Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-DemocracyPost messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:http://e-democracy.org/mpls___Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-DemocracyPost messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:http://e-democracy.org/mpls Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
Not quite accurate. Someone who was not there alleged that Dean was not allowed to speak. We don't know the truth of that statement. WMarks, Central Jordan S. Kushner wrote: It seems that the discussion about the 6th Ward convention is missing what should be the big story. Besides the longstanding questions of the emphasis on caucus system because of the small number of participants, it appears that the 6th Ward convention has now raised questions about whether the process itself is even open or democratic. I have now heard from a few corroborating sources that even though Dean Zimmerperson was nominated by one or more delegates, the leadership refused to allow him to speak! So anyone who does not meet the DFL party hack purity test is not allowed to compete for the DFL endorsement? I will not rush to judgment since i was not there, but i am anxious to hear explanations. Jordan Kushner Powderhorn, Ward 8 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
Can anyone shed any light on this? Mr. Stafford? Tom Taylor Sheridan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not quite accurate. Someone who was not there alleged that Dean was not allowed to speak. We don't know the truth of that statement. WMarks, Central Jordan S. Kushner wrote: It seems that the discussion about the 6th Ward convention is missing what should be the big story. Besides the longstanding questions of the emphasis on caucus system because of the small number of participants, it appears that the 6th Ward convention has now raised questions about whether the process itself is even open or democratic. I have now heard from a few corroborating sources that even though Dean Zimmerperson was nominated by one or more delegates, the leadership refused to allow him to speak! So anyone who does not meet the DFL party hack purity test is not allowed to compete for the DFL endorsement? I will not rush to judgment since i was not there, but i am anxious to hear explanations. Jordan Kushner Powderhorn, Ward 8 ___ ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
In a message dated 3/24/2001 11:43:24 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It seems that the discussion about the 6th Ward convention is missing what should be the big story. Besides the longstanding questions of the emphasis on caucus system because of the small number of participants, it appears that the 6th Ward convention has now raised questions about whether the process itself is even open or democratic. I have now heard from a few corroborating sources that even though Dean Zimmerperson was nominated by one or more delegates, the leadership refused to allow him to speak! So anyone who does not meet the DFL party hack purity test is not allowed to compete for the DFL endorsement? I will not rush to judgment since i was not there, but i am anxious to hear explanations. Jordan Kushner Powderhorn, Ward 8 My fellow Mpls residents, The 3rd and 5th paragraphs of my below posting clearly answers the questions around Dean Zimmermann's exclusion from being able to speak at yesterdays Ward 6 dfl convention: Dean "Zimmerperson" Zimmermann has been a very active member of the dfl for roughly 30 years. Dean has worked on campaign after campaign, from the Co-op wars to the Jesse Jackson campaign, always working to promote a set of values he has held dear. In 1993 Dean Zimmermann was overwhelmingly elected as a dfl endorsed candidate to the Mpls Park and Recreation Board and overwhelmingly re-elected in 1997 with the endorsements of both the dfl and the Green Party. Dean Zimmermann attended the dfl 6th Ward convention yesterday to address local activists and friends he has worked with over the years and ask for their personal support of his City Council candidacy. Dean did not go to this convention to seek the dfl convention, he attended because he has strong ties with and shared values with many committed activists and friends within the dfl in the 6th Ward. Traditional dfl rules allow any elected official who carried the dfl endorsement (which Dean Z did) to address the convention for 2 minutes. Early morning the convention debated the new (special) rules proposed for the convention with specific rules not allowing "anyone who has or who is seeking the endorsement of another major party" to speak at the convention. While these rules were debated, the Chair of the convention did allow Dean Z to address the convention for about 1 minute with the stipulation that he not mention his candidacy for City Council (which he did not). Dean Z has been clear to everyone for weeks that since he is running with the Green Party endorsement that he will not seek the dfl endorsement, delegates fought to nominate their friend Dean ZImmermann anyways. Dean Z was nominated, there was a debate both for and against Dean Z' being allowed to even be nominated (which should at most conventions allow him to address the convention). The ruling of the convention Chair was that Dean Z could be nominated, but would not be allowed to speak at all (while all the other 5 candidates were invited to address the crowd for 8 minutes each and participate in a question and answer forum). At this point Dean did consider withrawing his nomination (since he did not come to seek the dfl endorsement), but we realized that this was not our party's convention (Dean Z his son Klaus' status as delegates had been revoked before the convention by the credentials committee). We allowed the dfl convention to proceed however the elected dfl delegates wanted (without our interference or organizing of the floor). It was ruled that Dean Z would so blatantly be exluded from being able to speak, even though many delegates clearly wanted to hear him, this was when Dean placed a large peice of tape over his mouth where it remained for the rest of the endorsement process. 7 ballots later (and one close vote which almost adjourned the convention between the 6th and 7th), the dfl 6th Ward convention endorsed Dean Kallenbach with only 53 votes (just enough votes on the button). I will be proud to be a part of electing one of the first Green Party candidates to the Minneapolis City Council through a direct vote of the people of Minneapolis. Chris Allison Campaign Manager for Urban Superhero, Dean "Zimmerperson" Zimmermann, Green Party endorsed candidate for Mpls City Council, 6th Ward 612-872-2342, [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.zimmerperson.org ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
I was at the convention and I'd like to add that the there was a motion to appeal the chair's ruling that Dean's name be allowed to stay in nomination but that he could not participate in the candidate speeches or Q and A session. The motion failed 36 to 14 or thereabouts, so the delegates themselves upheld the chair's ruling. At the precinct caucuses delegates and alternates sign a statement saying they will respect the DFL endorsement and support DFL candidates. It makes perfect sense to me that a DFL convention would not want to spend a lot of time listening to a candidate who was not actually seeking the DFL endorsement, even though many delegates share Dean's values and support many aspects of his work. I'd like to add that the there was a motion to appeal the chair's ruling that Dean's name be allowed to stay in nomination but that he could not participate in the candidate speeches or Q and A session. The motion failed 36 to 14 or thereabouts, so the delegates themselves upheld the chair's ruling. At the precinct caucuses delegates and alternates sign a statement saying they will respect the DFL endorsement and support DFL candidates. It makes perfect sense to me that a DFL convention would not want to spend a lot of time listening to a candidate who was not actually seeking the DFL endorsement, even though many delegates share Dean's values and support many aspects of his work. Jude Poseley East Lowry Hill ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Green Party crashers (was Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion)
Actually we Democrats have been quite tolerant of Dean Z. and
his Naderite ilk given the way they have trashed our party- I suspect
the Republicans would have simply detailed a couple of big guys to
literally throw him out of their convention. And I wonder, how I, a
green Democrat, would be treated at a Green Party event if I merely
appeared, never mind asked to speak at their small gatherings? Given
that I've already had to help protect a fellow Democrat from an
assualt by Nader's green goons, and the obsession some of the Green
Party folk have with finding out where exactly I live, I wouldn't
visit a Green Party gathering without a good bunch of Democrats to
defend me!
peace,
Dyna Slyter from green and Democratic Hawthorne
--
Dyna Sluyter
friend of Bill W. and Harry B.
USPS TTO, 554 MVS tour 3 operator, 6610142('96 Mack MR tractor, 2.8m
wheelbase ) de N0EGF, qrv 70cm, 2m, 10-80m
proud IBT and APWU member for over 20 years, solidarity forever!
mk.1 Mini Cooper S, mk.2 Golf diezel, Ranger XL 4x4 longbed ("da
service truck")
R100GS mit seitzwagen, R65LS
Teledyne Titan, Santana, Trek 7300
Quickie GP, Fortress AeroEdge
running C/PM, DOS, Linux, and Mac OS. Micro who?
Amtrak 1007, highball!
___
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Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
For obvious reasons, I find this thread of DFL exclusion interesting. Although I have no personal history or baggage with the DFL, I chose not to seek the DFL endorsement. Out of respect for their party I chose not to address the delegates. Our campaign made this choice because we don't believe that our message, of reaching out to those who have been alienated by the political process, would have been credible had we done so. To many people, including myself, the DFL on the local level is the party that tried to shut down the Hard Times, is responsible for CODEFOR policies with which many people disagree, is not receptive to the concerns of people who consider themselves working class or alternative, and tries a little to hard to control people. I have much respect for DFL-progressives such as Jim Niland, Karen Clark, and Paul Wellstone, however, I don't believe our message would get much support within the party that currently holds power in the city. Again, you can see how this is not really a "non-partisan" election. I sincerely hope that Instant Runoff Voting becomes a reality so that we can bring honor and integrity back in to local elections, and so that we don't have to patronize our constituents by telling the lie that this is a "non-partisan" election, when in fact it is one of the most partisan in the political process. - | Tamir Nolley | Candidate for Mpls City Council, Ward 6 | Hop on the Nolley Trolley ! | http://www.nolleytrolley.org - ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Green Party crashers (was Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion)
- Original Message - From: "Dyna Sluyter" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 11:11 AM Subject: Green Party crashers (was Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion) Actually we Democrats have been quite tolerant of Dean Z. and his Naderite ilk given the way they have trashed our party- I suspect the Republicans would have simply detailed a couple of big guys to literally throw him out of their convention. And I wonder, how I, a green Democrat, would be treated at a Green Party event if I merely appeared, never mind asked to speak at their small gatherings? As a matter of fact, there is a recent concrete example of a similar situation at the last Green Party endorsement meeting. It was believed that Cam Gordon was the only candidate seeking the Green endorsement for the 2nd Ward (the seat held by Joan Campbell, whose latest laundary list of corporate sell-outs is her being the point person for the Ryan Construction/Padilla Spears deal). Paul Zerby attended the meeting without having followed the Green party rules and procedures for participating in the endorsement process (i.e. filling out a candidate questionnaire and attending a screening meeting). Paul Zerby was nevertheless allowed as much time as he wanted to give a speech about his candidacy. Even though he announced that he was a loyal DFLer and opposed to Nader's candidacy, the Green audience politely listened (and perhaps even applauded - i cannot definitely recall). Participants in the meeting then debated on whether the rules should be changed to open the process for any candidate to seek endorsement at any time. As the group was unable to reach consensus, Mr. Zerby stated that he was impressed with how the group responded to him under the circumstances. It appears that Dyna Sluyter's hypothesis about how the Greens would treat a green Democratic has already been refuted. In addition, there are many participants in the Green party who are still somewhat divided between the Greens and the DFL. Annie Young, an elected official, is loyal to both. Many of us rank-in-file members participate to some degree in both parties. No one to my knowledge has been excluded from the Greens based on participation with the DLF-Replubs. That is not to say that the Greens to not have their dogmatists and purists. However, there is no manipulation and exclusion that could be in any way remotely compared to the DFL party machinery. Jordan Kushner Ward 8, Powderhorn ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
A little bit of history to (perhaps) lighten this thread. Nellie Stone Johnson (Minneapolis's first elected African-American) was one of the people at the downtown Minneapolis Y cafeteria in 1944 who helped forged the DFL party. She did it in large part to assure the election of FDR to a fourth term (no sure thing at the time). Nellie was elected to the library board, and helped Hubert Humphrey become mayor in 1945. The very next presidential election, 1948, Nellie didn't support the Democrats. Repelled by the Dixiecrats, she instead campaigned for the Progressives, a party she believed was doing a better job of registering (or attempting to register) blacks in the South. Nellie was elected to the library board one more time (for a total of three terms), as a DFLer. As she tells it, Orville Freeman (a rising DFL star) did attempt to "purge" her for her "disloyalty" at the next state convention. Fortunately, she had a powerful patron - Humphrey - who convinced delegates not to kick her out. Nellie went on to work very hard for DFL candidates over the years, even becoming a Democratic National Committee woman in the '70s and a Perpich appointee to the state college educational board. But she said she wouldn't compromise core principles - she would attempt to change the party from within, and if not, from without. And if the party did change (as the national Dems eventually did), she would gladly rejoin the fold. I've got to admit, I view some of today's Greens through this prism. I know some sincerely want to build a new party, and others have merely tired of changing the DFL's orthodoxy. I view Dean as a Nellie type - someone who believes in DFL principles but feels rhetoric and votes have not lived up to ideals. (I view this as much different from the analogy some have thrown out about whether Democrats would allow a Republican to speak at their convention - there are much greater differences there, and Dean, like Nellie, has been a DFL participant over the years.) I don't agree with everything the Greens stand for, but I respect the sincerity and conviction many of them have. No issue may rise to the level of Nellie-era segregation - but then again, many believe the DFL-endorsed CODEFOR policy comes close. I respect that view, and would not censure someone who ran outside the party on that issue, or others. Last thing: in all the discussion about party loyalty and rule making, there has been little about the issue differences that may fuel the race in the Sixth (and elsewhere). I think Eva Young touched on a slightly less abstract one - who the candidates would vote for for council president. Let's face it, that might be the most influential vote they take. Would the various candidates declare that they would vote to re-elected Council President Cherryhomes, or would any declare that they would not? More concretely, are there actual policy differences between Candidates Kallenbach, Lickness, Zimmerperson, etc? As an interested observer from another ward, I suspect those are more critical to the future of our city than the convention contretemps of recent days. David Brauer King Field - Ward 10 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
At 12:23 PM 3/25/01 -0500, Tamir Nolley wrote: To many people, including myself, the DFL on the local level is the party that tried to shut down the Hard Times, is responsible for CODEFOR policies with which many people disagree, is not receptive to the concerns of people who consider themselves working class or alternative, and tries a little to hard to control people. I have much respect for DFL-progressives such as Jim Niland, Karen Clark, and Paul Wellstone, This is something I flat out cannot comprehend. How does the party that gives us people like Karen Clark, Neva Walker, and Paul Wellstone on the state and national level bring us things like CODEFOR and attacks on alternative small business on the city level? Rosalind Nelson Bancroft ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion If you substituted the word Green in this thread with the word Republican, is there any question that DFLers would NOT allow participation in conventions by the means described in any of this thread? I wonder why the Greens, now another competing major party in this state, deserve to be treated any differently than we would treat the Republicans, or the Independence Party? Will someone state a rational reason? There is a big distinction [which David Brauer alluded to]: The Greens represent what the DFL should be, whereas the Republicans represent what the DFL is supposed to be different from. As for the Independence party, i cannot say what they represent, if anything. Jordan Kushner Powderhorn ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFL Exclusion
At 10:06 PM 3/25/01 -0800, Ross Kaplan wrote: Repeated DFL references to small Green numbers strikes me as arrogant, and not a little unfair. This is a prime example of how factually bankrupt this green movement is. To borrow a phrase from e-commerce, "You haven't sold squat!" Perhaps once the green party is more than a few county and park board seats and a left-wing Billy Graham filling stadiums to hear the gospel of socialism, protectionism and marginalization we will stop making fun of the piddly little party that was. Regards, Evan Evan Schnell Ward 1, (Thankfully!) Como [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
