Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

Hello.

Good news for the many fans of the MSE "Programming is Fun!" book!

The translation of chapter 1 and 2 into English and French is ready to test.

The German version of chapter 1 and 2 was adapted for international code
too.

Included pdf in German, English and French:

progfun_de.pdf
  
progfun_en.pdf
  
progfun_fr.pdf
  

And here the LyX source.
mse_book.zip
  

Of course, like always, your numerous comments and fixes are welcome.

Enjoy.

Fre;D




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> sak is independent of a specific GUI toolkit, so I suggest you keep your
repository where it is. 

Hello Graeme.

Indeed sak can be used for fpGUI and LCL too.

Here, in MSE universe, was committed only the MSE branch of sak.

I have to confess too that I did use mseuniverse-sak to proof using GitLab
(before to (try to) commit things that I did not create my self, like the
MSE books).

Of course I will keep sak-GitHub with all his targets.

Fre;D





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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/25/18 9:08 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> 
> Looking at MSEUniverse now (I haven't in a very long time), it seems the
> structure has changed completely, and MSEUniverse is now some
> "repository group" and other repositories can become sub-groups of it.
> Not sure why you would want that, but I guess the GitLab guys/girls
> think it makes things slightly more organised. ;-)  Personally I prefer
> the independent git repos and if two repos are related/dependent, then I
> use git-submodules to link them.
> 
>From GitLab MSEuniverse frontpage:
https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse
"
MSEuniverse repository has been moved to
https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mseuniverse Books repository has been
moved to https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/books
"
The purpose of not deleting https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse is that users
which have old links don't see dead links. IIRC it was mostly you who
complained about scattered MSEgui information in different URL's. ;-)

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 25/09/18 07:59, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> When I make suggestions or pull requests to any other project (git
> based), I clone there repository, branch, make my changes and
> suggestions in that branch and notify the original author.

Looking at MSEUniverse now (I haven't in a very long time), it seems the
structure has changed completely, and MSEUniverse is now some
"repository group" and other repositories can become sub-groups of it.
Not sure why you would want that, but I guess the GitLab guys/girls
think it makes things slightly more organised. ;-)  Personally I prefer
the independent git repos and if two repos are related/dependent, then I
use git-submodules to link them.

Regards,
  Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 24/09/18 13:40, fredvs wrote:
> The last commit of mseuniverse-sak_mse date from more than 3 years and is no
> more compatible with last msegui commits.

sak is independent of a specific GUI toolkit, so I suggest you keep your
repository where it is. Martin simply needs to removed his "proof of
concept" repository from MSEUniverse.

When I make suggestions or pull requests to any other project (git
based), I clone there repository, branch, make my changes and
suggestions in that branch and notify the original author. That way they
can review, do a pull (if they agree) and I can discard it at any time.
I don't go and include other projects needlessly in my own git repos.

Regards,
  Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> That most likely will not work because mseuniverse/sak

Of course, with git I would not have hoped for anything else.

Finally with patience and only one password in mind:

https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/sak/commits/master

> Anyway, I added you as developer to mseuniverse/sak. Have fun! ;-) 

Wow, what a beautiful medal, many thanks Martin.

Fre;D






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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/24/18 2:46 PM, fredvs wrote:
>> Which of your repos you want to push to my mseuniverse/sak? 
> 
> https://github.com/fredvs/sak
> 
That most likely will not work because mseuniverse/sak and
github.com/fredvs/sak don't have the same ancestor. remember the --force
issue?
Anyway, I added you as developer to mseuniverse/sak. Have fun! ;-)

https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/sak/project_members

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> Which of your repos you want to push to my mseuniverse/sak? 

https://github.com/fredvs/sak



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> What do you want to do? 

I only want to commit last change of sak_mse project.

The last commit of mseuniverse-sak_mse date from more than 3 years and is no
more compatible with last msegui commits.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/24/18 2:28 PM, fredvs wrote:
> Hello Martin.
> 
> Pfff, not easy.
> 
> I did:
> 
> $ git remote add origin https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/sak
> 
> then
> 
> $ git push --all
> 
> Username for 'https://gitlab.com': fredvs
> Password for 'https://fre...@gitlab.com': 
> 
> > result after username + password:
> 
> remote: You are not allowed to push code to this project.
> fatal: unable to access 'https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/sak.git/': The
> requested URL returned error: 403
> 
> P x2: complicated and not out of the box.
> 
Should I add you as developer to mseuniverse/sak? What do you want to
do? I used mseuniverse/sak in order to suggest changes to you and to
propose a git workflow you didn't like. Which of your repos you want to
push to my mseuniverse/sak?

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

Hello Martin.

Pfff, not easy.

I did:

$ git remote add origin https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/sak

then

$ git push --all

Username for 'https://gitlab.com': fredvs
Password for 'https://fre...@gitlab.com': 

> result after username + password:

remote: You are not allowed to push code to this project.
fatal: unable to access 'https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/sak.git/': The
requested URL returned error: 403

P x2: complicated and not out of the box.

Fre;D







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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/22/18 3:08 PM, fredvs wrote:
> Re-hello.
> 
> Huh, i do not see sak_mse projet in MSEuniverse. it is deleted ?
> 
Here:
https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/sak
Please note, the MSEuniverse, the books and the MSElang repositories are
now in MSEide+MSEgui group because people complained about scattered
information.

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/22/18 2:58 PM, fredvs wrote:
>> Hmm, I see I forgot to push the restored dbfilter demo DB file.
> 
> Are you sure? 
> 
In the screenshot in commitlog the magenta colored label for the remote
"origin/master" branch is two commits behind the local "master" branch.

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

Re-hello.

Huh, i do not see sak_mse projet in MSEuniverse. it is deleted ?

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

Huh, maybe you are taking about https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mseuniverse.

If so, sory for the noise.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> Hmm, I see I forgot to push the restored dbfilter demo DB file.

Are you sure? 

In https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mseide-msegui/commits/master
the last commit is from 20 Sep, 2018 3 commits.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/21/18 8:56 PM, fredvs wrote:
>> Why don't you copy your /.ssh directory to a memory stick? 
> 
> For the same reason as for my car keys (I continually lose them or do not
> remember anymore where they are).
> With a unique password in head, I have less problems.
> 
You use a unique password for all your https accounts? Ouch!

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

>  don't know what you want to do. Can you explain?

OK, as beginning I propose to do this:

Configure my PC to be able to commit ideU to MSE GitLab too.

1) Clone my ideU (Github) directory to ideu_gitlab (for GitLab).

2) Delete old .git in ideu_gitlab 

3) Do in that directory $ git init

4) Here the result of git config -l
user.name=fredvs 
user.email=[hidden email] 
core.repositoryformatversion=0 
core.filemode=true 
core.bare=false 
core.logallrefupdates=true 

How must I configure "git remote" to access the mse-universe-gitlab site ?
It would be good to do this for sak_mse too that is very out of date in
mse-universe-gitlab site.

To resume, after git init, what must be used ?

When I will be able to do this, I will commit your MSE translated book with
less fear.

Thanks.

Fre;D




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> Why don't you copy your /.ssh directory to a memory stick? 

For the same reason as for my car keys (I continually lose them or do not
remember anymore where they are).
With a unique password in head, I have less problems.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> It is intended to be printed on A4 paper. 

Are you taking about paper that needs to kill trees, needs lot of energy and
is highly polluting to produce and was using as support in older centuries?
And to print needs chemical products also highly polluting.

Sorry but I do not want to be responsible for this.

;-)




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/21/18 3:59 PM, fredvs wrote:
>> Or do you use SSH in GitHub with a valid key pair and damaged your key pair
> for GitLab? 
> 
> No, I do not use SSH with Github, only a password.
> I know that SSH is more secure but I do not code forbidden things so I am
> not afraid.
> 
> And it is much more easy for a nomad like me that crash-loose-reinstall the
> operation system lot of time.
> 
Why don't you copy your /.ssh directory to a memory stick?

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/21/18 3:41 PM, fredvs wrote:
>> The English and French PDFs have a completely different layout than the
> German original. Is this intended? 
> 
> Huh, completely no, the only thing I did is to disable the 2 columns feature
> of the text-layout.
> And fit some images on the right place.
> IMHO it is much more comfortable to read and that way all the images are fit
> on the right place.

It is intended to be printed on A4 paper.

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/21/18 3:59 PM, fredvs wrote:
>> Or do you use SSH in GitHub with a valid key pair and damaged your key pair
> for GitLab? 
> 
> No, I do not use SSH with Github, only a password.
> I know that SSH is more secure but I do not code forbidden things so I am
> not afraid.
> 
SSH is more convenient because it allows to push with a common local
password for multipple used secret keys or even to use a secret key
without password.
> 
> Maybe you can show me what I must do with the mse_compfun directory.
> 
> I did already git init and here the result of git config:
> 
> fred@fiens:~/mse_progfun$ git config -l
> user.name=fredvs
> user.email=fi...@hotmail.com
> core.repositoryformatversion=0
> core.filemode=true
> core.bare=false
> core.logallrefupdates=true
> 
I don't know what you want to do. Can you explain?

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> Or do you use SSH in GitHub with a valid key pair and damaged your key pair
for GitLab? 

No, I do not use SSH with Github, only a password.
I know that SSH is more secure but I do not code forbidden things so I am
not afraid.

And it is much more easy for a nomad like me that crash-loose-reinstall the
operation system lot of time.

Here my config for ideU:
--
fred@fiens:~/ideu$ git config -l
user.name=fredvs
user.email=fi...@hotmail.com
core.repositoryformatversion=0
core.filemode=true
core.bare=false
core.logallrefupdates=true
remote.origin.url=https://github.com/fredvs/ideu
remote.origin.fetch=+refs/heads/*:refs/remotes/origin/*
remote.origin.pushurl=https://github.com/fredvs/ideu
branch.master.remote=origin
branch.master.merge=refs/heads/master
--

Maybe you can show me what I must do with the mse_compfun directory.

I did already git init and here the result of git config:

fred@fiens:~/mse_progfun$ git config -l
user.name=fredvs
user.email=fi...@hotmail.com
core.repositoryformatversion=0
core.filemode=true
core.bare=false
core.logallrefupdates=true

Thanks.

Fre;D




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

>The English and French PDFs have a completely different layout than the
German original. Is this intended? 

Huh, completely no, the only thing I did is to disable the 2 columns feature
of the text-layout.
And fit some images on the right place.
IMHO it is much more comfortable to read and that way all the images are fit
on the right place.
Also that way the pdf can easily be used with mobiles and little screens.

But if you prefer multi columns, in LyX settings /  Text layout / check "Two
columns document".

> You used an automatically translated text as start? 

Yes a pdf translator online on the web.
It should be great that somebody that speaks well English do a check for
progfun_en.pdf.
Because I think that the English version will be used as template for
translators.

> zusammenzählen -> put 

Oops, ok, fixed.

By the way, you cannot imagine how incomprehensible was the translation from
German to French with Google translate.
And doing this from English to French was even worst !

Fre;D


 




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On 9/20/18 7:22 PM, fredvs wrote:
> Hello Martin.
> 
> Before that I attack gitlab, could it be possible to check the first chapter
> in English (or French if you can) ?
> 
I don't know well English nor French so I can not comment on the text.
Some expressions probably are not ideal.
"
Als erstes machen wir ein Programm,
welches zwei Zahlen zusammenzählen kann
"
has been translated to
"
First we make a program that can put two numbers.
"
zusammenzählen -> put
https://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/zusammenz%C3%A4hlen
does not list "put" as English translation for "zusammenzählen" but
"add". I fear there are more words which distort the meaning. You used
an automatically translated text as start?

The English and French PDFs have a completely different layout than the
German original. Is this intended?

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On Friday 21 September 2018 00:11:34 fredvs wrote:
> > It is like in GitHub.
>
> In GitHub they only ask a password.
>
You want to use the HTTPS protocol in order to push (not recommended)? Please 
use the URL
https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mseuniverse.git
instead the SSH URL
g...@gitlab.com:mseide-msegui/mseuniverse.git

Or do you use SSH in GitHub with a valid key pair and damaged your key pair 
for GitLab?

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On Friday 21 September 2018 00:06:29 fredvs wrote:
> > the examples could be made in English.
>
> And maybe the images too.
>
Of course.
I know that I can not convince you, the following comments are meant for other 
readers.

> I am not convinced that using branches would make things easier for the
> translator.
>
> In my case, I load 2 projects in LyX, the template progfun_en.lyx and the
> target progfun_fr.lyx and compile + switch from one to the other.
>
> But if you work with git-branches it is much more complicated.
>
One would make two clones of the "book" repo in different directories so one 
can work with two different branches at the same time.

> Also, each time you load the project with a other language, you have to
> paste the correspondent mse.module in /usr/share/lyx/layouts.
> And re-compile LyX.
>
One would use the local module in "book" repo instead.

Probably it is the best to solely push the PDF's to MSEuniverse. I already 
pushed the German version:
https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mseuniverse/blob/master/docs/books/programmierspass/programmierspass_de.pdf

So you can do with the other files as you like and publish them as and if you 
like.

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> It is like in GitHub. 

In GitHub they only ask a password.



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> the examples could be made in English.

And maybe the images too.

I am not convinced that using branches would make things easier for the
translator.

In my case, I load 2 projects in LyX, the template progfun_en.lyx and the
target progfun_fr.lyx and compile + switch from one to the other.

But if you work with git-branches it is much more complicated.

Also, each time you load the project with a other language, you have to
paste the correspondent mse.module in /usr/share/lyx/layouts.
And re-compile LyX.

My 1 cents, of course.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

Hello Martin.

Before that I attack gitlab, could it be possible to check the first chapter
in English (or French if you can) ?

This to see if I am on the right way.

Included pdf files:
progfun_en.zip
  
progfun_fr.zip
  

And the sources:
mse_progfun.zip
  

To compile the source with LyX:

- Copy from  /mse_progfun/layouts,  mse_en.module + mse_fr.module into your
/usr/share/lyx/layouts directory.
- In LyX do Tools-Recompile.
- Edit  progfun_en.lyx and change this lines according where you did save
/mse_progfun/layouts:

bibfiles "../msebooks/layouts/mse_en"
options "../msebooks/layouts/mse_en"

Thanks.

Fre;D




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On Thursday 20 September 2018 14:18:24 fredvs wrote:
> > Please post them to MSEuniverse.
>
> Br.  They ask me for keys (and, like for my car, I do not know where
> they are).
>
It is like in GitHub.

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On Thursday 20 September 2018 14:22:56 fredvs wrote:
> > I made the necessary branches and pushed them to gitlab:
> > https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/books
>
> I do not see the English branche. ;-(
>
Forgotten, sorry. Here it is:
https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/books/tree/master_en

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> I made the necessary branches and pushed them to gitlab: 
> https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/books

I do not see the English branche. ;-(

Fre;D




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> Please post them to MSEuniverse. 

Br.  They ask me for keys (and, like for my car, I do not know where
they are).

(But maybe if you give some easy light, with console commands (please no git
programs) I will be less terrorized.)

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On Thursday 20 September 2018 13:19:07 fredvs wrote:
> Hello Martin.
>
> Because of my terror of git, I will give the translated files in a zip file
> per lang.
> According your wishes. (no change in filename of the lyx file.)
>
Please post them to MSEuniverse. That there will be no common git history 
which could be used to manage changes, improvements and extensions is bad. 
But it is you choice of course.

Thanks,

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

Hello Martin.

Because of my terror of git, I will give the translated files in a zip file
per lang.
According your wishes. (no change in filename of the lyx file.)

> The examples could be made in English. 

OK.

I will do first the checked translation for English and French.
Then Spanish and Portuguese.

Fre;D

PS: It could take some time.




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On Wednesday 19 September 2018 20:13:31 fredvs wrote:
> Hello Martin.
>
> Ok, it was in mse.module ---> mse_fr.module created.
>
Please make the change in the dedicated branch, don't change the filename. So 
later changes in mse.module can be propagated to the different languages 
easily. An additional "mse_lang.module" which contains the language specific 
expressions and which will be linked into "mse.module" probably would make 
sense.

> > No, because other files are language specific too, (source, LyX modules,
> > images...).
>
> Indeed, to do something nice, all the code of the examples should be
> updated by language (hum, lot of work).
>
> Why not use for all code-stuff exclusively English words?  AFAIK, all
> instruction/words in Pascal are in English too.
> And in the pdf_lang give the translation of the English words used in the
> demos an images.
>
It is because of the intended audience of German speaking pupils.
There was zero reaction of German speaking teachers so you are right, the 
examples could be made in English.

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> Or does LaTeX-LyX provide a better translation mechanism?

I do not know, I use my custom way to translate your German pdf into pdf of
other language.
Then I use LyX and change text from German to other lang (using copy-paste
from the translated pdf).

All works ok, I block on a little detail: how to change the "Formated
reference" (Change the text of "Bild", see picture).

 

>  I don't know LaTeX-LyX much. 

Huh, it is my first shot with LyX...

> Please use for every language

Saving as progpass_fr.lyx is not enough ?

Fre;D




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On Wednesday 19 September 2018 02:21:18 fredvs wrote:
>
> Not sure that using LyX will be easier than editing the pdf with
> LibreOffice Draw.and re-export as pdf.
> But ok, I will try with LyX.
>
Translating the LyX source is better because the document layout is defined 
there. Simply modifying the output PDF can overlap other text and images as 
the examples show. And if one changes the layout in LyX document all the 
translation work is lost...
Please use for every language a separate git branch. Or does LaTeX-LyX provide 
a better translation mechanism? I don't know LaTeX-LyX much.

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

Hello Martin.

OK, the lyx files are in /books/layouts.

Not sure that using LyX will be easier than editing the pdf with LibreOffice
Draw.and re-export as pdf.
But ok, I will try with LyX.

Fre;D






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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

> The Latex/Lyx project is here: 
> https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/books/tree/master/programmierspass
> if you like to translate without disrupting the document layout.

=

LyX error: Module not available

The module mse has been requested by 
this document but has not been found in the list of
available modules.

;-(



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[Martin Schreiber]

On Tuesday 18 September 2018 16:09:00 fredvs wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Included translation of the MSE Programing Pass book:

Thanks, please push it to MSEuniverse when you think it is good enough.
The Latex/Lyx project is here:
https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/books/tree/master/programmierspass
if you like to translate without disrupting the document layout.

Martin


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSE Programing Pass Book

[fredvs]

Hello.

Huh, after a deeper check, it appears that the translation (done by
Google-translate) from Germain into English, Spanish and Portuguese is more
or less understandable (but needs work).

But for translation from German into French, there is lot of work to make it
understandable.
I will do it for French asap.

For the translation from German into Russian I fear that there is work too.

Fre;D



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