Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSElang, should it use Algol 68 syntax?
On 11/11/2013 11:03 PM, Sieghard wrote:
t _even_ C has block delimiters ({ and }), because they're
_needed_ by any notation that does _not_ restrict formatting the code.
In fact I _always_ use begin ... end ( or in C } ... { ) with if
and loop instructions (as I do not like the ambiguity imposed by the
different details of interpretation of ; in Pascal and C).
Moreover I place the begin in the same line as as the if and the
end in a s single line
Moreover I do two spaces indentation for the lines between begin and end
IMHO this allows for best readability by not wasting too much lines.
Of course with this look the end including it's complete single line
can be dropped without harming readability too much. I am not sure if I
would use this feature if it would be provided by the compiler.
With else I _always_ do a single line containing end begin else
I suppose here the new compiler would accept just else begin. Does not
look bad, but not a real improvement, IMHO.
OTOH it might be confusing to have the compiler ask for indentation and
line breaks. There might be occasions where it does make sense to create
a program in just single line.
-Michael
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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSElang, should it use Algol 68 syntax?
On Tuesday 12 November 2013 09:19:37 Michael Schnell wrote:
I suppose here the new compiler would accept just else begin. Does not
look bad, but not a real improvement, IMHO.
I do more like to make the end's mandatory. Like
'if' BOOLEANEXPRESSION 'then'
[STATEMENT {';' STATEMENT}]
['else'
[STATEMENT {';' STATEMENT}]
]
'end'
if a = 1 then
b:= 88
end;
if b = 99 then
a:= 12;
if c = 13 then
a:= 14
end
else
a:= 13
end;
while a 10 do
inc(b);
dec(a)
end;
or so. Additional ';' as empty statements are allowed.
Martin
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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSElang, should it use Algol 68 syntax?
On Tuesday 12 November 2013 09:54:11 Michael Schnell wrote: With my background of C fro me the ; is necessary to close a statement. This I never do a line that does not end with either of ; or begin In Pascal (and in MSElang) ';' does not terminate but separate a statement. Empty statements are possible - if a = 1 then b:= 88; end; or if a = 1 then b:= 88; end; is OK. Martin -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSElang, should it use Algol 68 syntax?
On 11/12/2013 10:13 AM, Martin Schreiber wrote: In Pascal (and in MSElang) ';' does not terminate but separate a statement. Exactly. (Different from C.) Empty statements are possible - OK. Thus my (c-influenced) style is acceptable. -Michael -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSElang, should it use Algol 68 syntax?
On 11/10/2013 02:33 PM, Sieghard wrote: Don't try. There was _never_ a complete implementation of this language around for all the time being, although the foremost computer scientists of the time worked on these compilers (way back) then. Martin does like a decent challenge :-) :-) . -Michael -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSElang, should it use Algol 68 syntax?
Hallo Ivanko,
Du schriebst am Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:41:58 +0500:
The ALGOL syntax looks as a complication seems to offer no benefits :)
The Algol syntax was the base for Pascal. It is very similar, although
Pascal left out many constructs possible even in the simpler Algol 60
dialect, like dynamically sized arrays (you could declare an array using
_variable_ for index range bounds) or block scoped variables (open a block
with begin, declare some variables and use them, close the block and
they're gone). The only major difference of Pascal from Algol in thei
respect is its use of _keywords_, which simply were not known when Algol
was defined - they used a concept called tokens, but didn't think of the
possibility to represent them a specially recognized words, so you had to
mark the syntax tokens specially, usually by enclosing them in quotes.
(Yes, you wrote 'BEGIN' code 'END'; for an Algol block.)
For advanced syntax it worhs to look at Python (no begin end source
text garbage etc).
If you consider block delimiter words garbage, why don't you use C instead
of Pascal? But _even_ C has block delimiters ({ and }), because they're
_needed_ by any notation that does _not_ restrict formatting the code.
Of course, you can absorb some delimiters into parts of other constructs,
but they're basically unavoidably as long as you don't require a very
strict formatting to specify block coherence, where you have to
painstakingly keep track of the indentation level. And no, the indentation
pattern isn't always a straightforward in and out - there _are_ jumps and
steps that aren't immediately obvious.
BTW, you do know bash - its script syntax is an example for the
absorption of block delimiters into other syntax elements -
if ...; then ...; fi constitutes two blocks, as does
for ...; do ...; done or while ...; do ...; done, or even
case ...; {...) ...;; }^n endcase (multiple blocks).
But as you can see, every block has a pair of delimiters, albeit not
all the same.
Isn't it much easier to recognize then if every block is delimited by the
same words?
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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSElang, should it use Algol 68 syntax?
Hallo Martin, Du schriebst am Sun, 10 Nov 2013 07:47:44 +0100: Sieghard suggests to use Algol 68 syntax instead to try to make the best of 30 years of programming experience. Opinions? Don't try. There was _never_ a complete implementation of this language around for all the time being, although the foremost computer scientists of the time worked on these compilers (way back) then. BTW: An Oxford and Cambridge Compilers Ltd, formed around 1994, offered an Algol 68 compiler once - I don't know whether this site still exists: http://www.occl-cam.demon.co.uk/whitepaper.html There seems to have been another implementation from the Netherlands: http://www.mensys.nl/catalogue/mn_algol.html And there's (was?) mention of Algol 68 on a german site: http://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/~wolff/Algol68.html All this dates back to before 2000, and there was probably no work done at all since. My remark wasn't even meant to be taken serious, I made it merely because so many new developments in the computer language field were in there nearly half a century ago... -- -- (Weitergabe von Adressdaten, Telefonnummern u.ä. ohne Zustimmung nicht gestattet, ebenso Zusendung von Werbung oder ähnlichem) --- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, S. Schicktanz --- -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSElang, should it use Algol 68 syntax?
The ALGOL syntax looks as a complication seems to offer no benefits :) For advanced syntax it worhs to look at Python (no begin end source text garbage etc). -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
