On Sat, Oct 02, 2010 at 09:24:57PM +0200, architetto francesco fantoni hva -
hermanitos verdes architetti wrote:
sorry, but I have to totally disagree: in my opinion if you have a layer
system you should have at least the option to adjust a bit their
relative position,
I used to think so, too, when layer support was new. But I don't really
think this is part of the painting process. Managing layers is fiddling
around with the technical aspect of digital painting. I think it is better
to keep the painter away from the temptation to use features that feel like
using a computer program rather than painting in the middle of the
creative process. It can't be avoided for setup and finishing, of course,
and what is considered computer program struggle depends on the user.
while I feel that scaling is not really necessary, and that is even more
true with an infinite canvas paradigm,
Maybe I don't really understand what your use cases are, or at least not how
this would be related to the infinite canvas.
Another example: if you use a background as reference (e.g in a
storyboard, or as reference for a fixed image size), if you change it,
then pan or zoom the canvas and re-enable the previous background, it
will not coincide with the original position, so having the possibility
to move the layers would give more flexibility.
This is a cumbersome workaround for a different bug which should be fixed
independently. I think save/load is required to trigger this, not pan/zoom.
I've added the case to https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16741
and actually you could have had the same attitude towards changing order
of layers for example: you can do that in GIMP as well, so why do you have
it implemented in MyPaint?
A good question. I have no clue why an user would want to change layer order
in MyPaint. I guess it was just implemented because it seemed to fit in
without much difficulty. Talking about the layer dialog, I am not using it
myself, it is only pain to me. It would be pain to me even if it were as
fancy as the one in GIMP. It is in MyPaint because Jon took the effort to
integrate it, and many users say that they need it.
It's just a matter of balance between painting features and auxiliary
features,
Exactly.
And one thing what sets MyPaint apart from other programs is that it
doesn't have too many auxiliary features. Users do appreciate this:
http://mypaint.intilinux.com/?page_id=56
but if you choose to have layers in my opinion they are supposed to have a
minimum of features, I really think layer system still lacks a bit of
functionality.
Yes it is lacking. But then, I'm not using it myself. The traditional
concept of layers just doesn't fit into my mind when painting. I can cope
with two layers sometimes, but when I try to use more I start to struggle
with the layers every now and then, instead of painting. You can probably
understand that I don't want to spend much of my time on improving it.
I just thought it could be useful to others as it was to me, never mind.
To be honest I must say I'm accustomed to a slightly more flexible
attitude in other open-source projects towards possible new contributors
and users' suggestions.
Well, it's true that bugfixes are always a bit more welcome than new
features in MyPaint, especially features from someone who did not do any
bugfixes and/or maintainance work yet. Our first priority is to get the
program to work smoothly with the features it already has. Adding more
features doesn't make this task easier.
I have only told you my opinion. There are two other MyPaint maintainers,
and I will trust them both if they have a different opinion and decide to
take care of your patch. And my opinion about features has changed a few
times in the past, mainly based on the opinion of long-time MyPaint users.
no problem, I will keep my hacks for myself
No reason to keep it to yourself just because of me. Push it into a branch
on gitorious, and tell users to try it, announce your work in the wiki and
IRC. If it gets popular we will be more likely to integrate it. There are
many features lying around like that, from myself and from others.
http://wiki.mypaint.info/Development/Developers
--
Martin Renold
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