RE: nettime Nettime is dead

2003-06-01 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Anna Balint's list of complaints about nettime and its moderation trends
points to the inherent problems and strengths of moderation, filtering, and
focusing.  People, ideas, announcements are excluded.  She bundles those as
examples of abuse.

However, in list after list, where there is a very diverse and volatile
group and no moderation, you can have a small number of people  who can
drive large numbers away.  The membership may grow, but the cohesiveness of
the group (if that's a goal) suffers. 

 My guess is that nettime  moderators are trying to balance this. Balint
thinks they have failed (and tells us why). I think nettime has worked
quite well, though I have come and gone a couple of times.

In 2003 there are so many choices for group interactivity besides mailing
lists (which are still the most important basic tool).  Web-based ones like
scoop and drupal allow voting and self-organizing.

http://www.drupal.org/
http://scoop.kuro5hin.org/

And there are wikis, and blog wikis, and other new hybrids surfacing each
week.  Populating those with interesting ideas and people remains the
ongoing challenge.

Steve  


mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

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Re: nettime Nettime is dead

2003-06-01 Thread Ian Dickson
Interesting debate, that, broadly speaking, says you can't please all of 
the people all of the time.

Maybe we can help.

We could implement Nettime in CommKit.

CommKit is designed to help build complex scalable communities.

This would create a multi themed community which would include, in 
parallel, sections that were entirely moderated, to areas that were a 
free for all, and all shades in between.

Access would require username/password but once in, a members could 
configure to operate entirely be email. (This is largely an anti spam, 
anti abuse feature).

Members would control their own experience. So I would probably join a 
fully moderated area. Others might go moderated, plus join the, for 
example, unmoderated section of the New Media Arts group.

We could also allow non executable attachments (which wouldn't be 
distributed by email, no point in filling up those dial ups with the 
latest 10MB video art. Email members would be told that an attachment 
exists, and that they can get it from the site).

This would also be a V2.0 implementation, and so could include the 
option to allow members to publish searchable info about themselves, 
thus aiding offline developments.

Let me know if you want to explore this.

Cheers
-- 
ian dickson  www.commkit.com
phone +44 (0) 1452 862637fax +44 (0) 1452 862670
PO Box 240, Gloucester, GL3 4YE, England

   for building communities that work

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nettime Nettime is dead

2003-05-31 Thread anna balint
Dear mod squad,

 
i thought the contrary, that nettime is exactly the only list that failed
to remain open in the new media criticismart lists environment,
every other list came up with an idea...

I am one of those persons whose mails normally don't hit the nettime
quality standards or does not fit in the policy, and this also makes 
me even more than oppose moderation, 
but besides that, i think nettime failed exactly because of moderation
or bad moderation in several respects:

- it lost the intimacy of personal communication and personal culture
as opposed to commercial and largely spread push content and academic culture
- it failed to cover both Western and Eastern underground culture,
largely based on the aesthetic of the imperfect *West* or on formal perfection
*East* [just think to nettime's resistence to ASCII art and culture, law-fi, 
or compare this mail of the mod sqaud with a former  mod mail 
http://amsterdam.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-9802/msg2.html]
- the list suppressed or neglected among others criticism concerning female 
participation, race politics, multiple cultures, information and network culture 
- together with the increasing number of subsribers the list gave up somewhere 
to found the Neue Frankfurter Schule, but it also failed to concentrate on
research both in the field of art and media. Somehow first it became a 
dog driven by the tail of media activism, a term originally coined by Toshia Ueno
to describe the task of including subcultures and counter cultures in an interface
remaking and changing the public sphere - now look, nowadays even online activism is 
meant 
for saving curators of the elite. Meanwhile, together with establishing, 
the list also became one of the many lists...
- moderation is a good ground for abuse, it may exclude alternative views,
and favour unjustly other ones, ex aequo et bono it does, and so does
nettime's moderation model - just to mention the example of nettime's influence
on the syndicate list once started to encourage East and West European art and 
information 
exchange, where the two West European moderators failed to recognize a subscriber's 
East European
attitude and identity, and kicked it off the the list without the community's
approval, without discussion, and even without letting known the unsubscription.
Problems with the nettime moderation started with the rejection of posts that could 
have been relevant for the list content, goal and manifesto, and ends with the
complete change of the character of the list.
- Pit Schulz was sighing from his boots in 1996 that there is need of a software
for a list, I don't know what happened since than, where is that software?
Why did the nettime bold include all the spam, why the list was not set to reject
non-subscriber's mail? 
Even a small list like syndicate, that has no instutional
support except for hosting the list on a safe server,
experiments much more in the field of information exchange,
with the KKnut project for example, that allows direct interaction
of URL, text, and a mailinglist. Have a look at http://anart.no/~syndicate/KKnut/.
- if once the nettime meeting took place as a 'let's also do something' alibi
when I wanted to go to Venice in 1995, and since i did not get the visa for Italy,
i got the nettime list instead of Venice, now, together with the dead of nettime bold,
i state that I don't need it anymore, this year I'll make it to Venice,
and i am one of the five guards who keep alive the fire of openness at the syndicate
list.

greetings,
Anna Balint

2003.05.28. 19:17:40, the nettime mod squad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dear Nettimers,

We are closing nettime-bold.


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