[NTG-context] vertical bar spacing in Antykwa-Poltawskiego
I am using Antykwa-Poltawskiego to set a French text that includes ancient Greek. In the Greek text, there is a vertical bar (to mark the end of a column). The custom is to set the spacing about the bar so that (a) when the bar is inside a word, the bar appears as a normal character (b) when the bar is between words, the bar has an emspace on either side. The problem is that Antykwa-Poltawskiego defines the vertical bar with spaces on either side. Is there a way to adjust this so that the vertical bar appears as it should in Greek text—and to do this without clobbering the French punctuation or getting weird effects when the bar is at the end of a line? For instance, is there a way to combine rules for character spacing so that the second overrules the first only when they are in conflict? Alan ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] vertical bar spacing in Antykwa-Poltawskiego
Am 23.07.2013 um 13:20 schrieb Alan Bowen bowenala...@gmail.com:
I am using Antykwa-Poltawskiego to set a French text that includes ancient
Greek.
In the Greek text, there is a vertical bar (to mark the end of a column). The
custom is to set the spacing about the bar so that
(a) when the bar is inside a word, the bar appears as a normal character
(b) when the bar is between words, the bar has an emspace on either side.
\setupbodyfont[antykwa-poltawskiego]
\def\test
{\ifnum\lastnodetype=11
\quad\textbar\quad
\else
\textbar
\fi}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\starttext
left\test middle \test right
\stoptext
The problem is that Antykwa-Poltawskiego defines the vertical bar with spaces
on either side.
Do you have a example for this?
Is there a way to adjust this so that the vertical bar appears as it should
in Greek text—and to do this without clobbering the French punctuation or
getting weird effects when the bar is at the end of a line? For instance, is
there a way to combine rules for character spacing so that the second
overrules the first only when they are in conflict?
Make a example for the problem with french.
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] vertical bar spacing in Antykwa-Poltawskiego
On 7/23/2013 1:32 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 23.07.2013 um 13:20 schrieb Alan Bowen bowenala...@gmail.com:
I am using Antykwa-Poltawskiego to set a French text that includes ancient
Greek.
In the Greek text, there is a vertical bar (to mark the end of a column). The
custom is to set the spacing about the bar so that
(a) when the bar is inside a word, the bar appears as a normal character
(b) when the bar is between words, the bar has an emspace on either side.
\setupbodyfont[antykwa-poltawskiego]
\def\test
{\ifnum\lastnodetype=11
\ifnum\lastnodetype=\gluenodecode
\quad\textbar\quad
\else
\textbar
\fi}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\starttext
left\test middle \test right
\stoptext
The problem is that Antykwa-Poltawskiego defines the vertical bar with spaces
on either side.
Do you have a example for this?
Is there a way to adjust this so that the vertical bar appears as it should in
Greek text—and to do this without clobbering the French punctuation or getting
weird effects when the bar is at the end of a line? For instance, is there a
way to combine rules for character spacing so that the second overrules the
first only when they are in conflict?
Make a example for the problem with french.
Wolfgang
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--
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] vertical bar spacing in Antykwa-Poltawskiego
Wolfgang, Hans—many thanks to you both!
Part of the problem was that i was using \| instead of \textbar. I now have:
\setupbodyfont[antykwa-poltawskiego]
\def\test
{\ifnum\lastnodetype=\gluenodecode
\|
\else
\textbar
\fi}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\starttext
left\test middle \test right
\stoptext
which looks good on the page—\quad\textbar\quad puts too much space around
the bar.
Again, thanks!
Alan
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote:
On 7/23/2013 1:32 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 23.07.2013 um 13:20 schrieb Alan Bowen bowenala...@gmail.com:
I am using Antykwa-Poltawskiego to set a French text that includes
ancient Greek.
In the Greek text, there is a vertical bar (to mark the end of a
column). The custom is to set the spacing about the bar so that
(a) when the bar is inside a word, the bar appears as a normal character
(b) when the bar is between words, the bar has an emspace on either side.
\setupbodyfont[antykwa-**poltawskiego]
\def\test
{\ifnum\lastnodetype=11
\ifnum\lastnodetype=\**gluenodecode
\quad\textbar\quad
\else
\textbar
\fi}
\setcharacterspacing[**frenchpunctuation]
\starttext
left\test middle \test right
\stoptext
The problem is that Antykwa-Poltawskiego defines the vertical bar with
spaces on either side.
Do you have a example for this?
Is there a way to adjust this so that the vertical bar appears as it
should in Greek text—and to do this without clobbering the French
punctuation or getting weird effects when the bar is at the end of a line?
For instance, is there a way to combine rules for character spacing so that
the second overrules the first only when they are in conflict?
Make a example for the problem with french.
Wolfgang
__**__**
___
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listinfo/ntg-context http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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http://foundry.supelec.fr/**projects/contextrev/http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
__**__**
___
--
--**--**-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
--**--**-
__**__**
___
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the Wiki!
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listinfo/ntg-context http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive :
http://foundry.supelec.fr/**projects/contextrev/http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
__**__**
___
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Re: [NTG-context] vertical bar spacing in Antykwa-Poltawskiego
Am 23.07.2013 um 15:42 schrieb Alan Bowen bowenala...@gmail.com:
Wolfgang, Hans—many thanks to you both!
Part of the problem was that i was using \| instead of \textbar. I now have:
\setupbodyfont[antykwa-poltawskiego]
\def\test
{\ifnum\lastnodetype=\gluenodecode
\|
\else
\textbar
\fi}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\starttext
left\test middle \test right
\stoptext
which looks good on the page—\quad\textbar\quad puts too much space around
the bar.
You can use \letterbar instead of \|. \textbar and \letterbar produce different
output because
\letterbar is taken from the text font which has padding on the left and right
side while \textbar
is taken from the math font which has no padding.
When you don’t like the extra space around | I suggest to use another font
which fits your taste
and use \letterbar in both cases (just add some space on the left/right between
word).
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] vertical bar spacing in Antykwa-Poltawskiego
Thanks, Wolfgang. I will start experimenting.
Alan
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Wolfgang Schuster
schuster.wolfg...@gmail.com wrote:
Am 23.07.2013 um 15:42 schrieb Alan Bowen bowenala...@gmail.com:
Wolfgang, Hans—many thanks to you both!
Part of the problem was that i was using \| instead of \textbar. I now
have:
\setupbodyfont[antykwa-poltawskiego]
\def\test
{\ifnum\lastnodetype=\gluenodecode
\|
\else
\textbar
\fi}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\starttext
left\test middle \test right
\stoptext
which looks good on the page—\quad\textbar\quad puts too much space
around the bar.
You can use \letterbar instead of \|. \textbar and \letterbar produce
different output because
\letterbar is taken from the text font which has padding on the left and
right side while \textbar
is taken from the math font which has no padding.
When you don’t like the extra space around | I suggest to use another font
which fits your taste
and use \letterbar in both cases (just add some space on the left/right
between word).
Wolfgang
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http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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Re: [NTG-context] Opening quotes problem with context.
John Culleton wrote:
I use slackware linux 14, the 64 bit version.
What is the proper code for opening quotes in context?
Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Use “quoted word” or \quotation{quoted word}.
Since you're using Linux: if you set your keyboard layout to `English
(international AltGr dead keys)`, your keyboard will behave like an
ordinary US keyboard, but you can use AltGr (right Alt) to get special
characters. Specifically, you can get
‘’ with AltGr + 9 and AltGr + 0
“” with AltGr + { and AltGr + }
«» with AltGr + [ and AltGr + ]
That might make the quotations easier to type, if you decide to input
them “literally” instead of \quotation{structurally}. The AltGr dead
keys keyboard is very nice in general, not least because it is
indistinguishable from a normal US keyboard under normal usage.
Cheers,
Sietse
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[NTG-context] footnotes on wrong page
What is the setting that forces ConTeXt to keep footnotes on the page where
they are called?
In the following example,
\setupinteraction[state=start]
\setupnotation[footnote][interaction=yes,way=bytext]
\setupnotation[footnote][split=verystrict]
\starttext
\dorecurse{50}{some text\footnote{a footnote} }
\stoptext
the call for note 42 and the note itself are on different pages. I realize
that this may be an extreme case, but, regrettably, that is what I have in
a review that I am typesetting.
Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] Can this layout be done in Context
Russell Urquhart russurquha...@verizon.net writes: On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:19:27PM -0700, David Rogers wrote: To summarize: A page header with page number and guide word (the guide word showing which chapter of which book of the Bible begins on this page), two columns of regular text, margin notes *for both columns* set in their own special single (very narrow) centre column, and footnotes in one single large column, which is permitted to take a lot of vertical space on the page when necessary, with all those areas of the page separated from each other by thin ruled lines. Correct? I know that this example is probably a little extreme, but i love the layout of thise books, and while i may not want to be able to do something that has ALL of those layout attributes, i'd be curious as to what it would take on the Context side. I don't think it's extreme - I just wanted to make sure we didn't miss any of what it contains. I think there would need to be a lot of typing inside of the Bible text itself (for example, needing to manually tag each and every chapter of each book of the Bible), to get the guide-words to display correctly - you definitely wouldn't be able to just book-end the Bible with some code at the beginning and end. I don't know how easy it is to get margin notes from two different text columns to combine into one margin column. The rest of it seems not very challenging from a ConTeXt point of view - footnotes are quite well-supported (though again for both the footnotes and the margin notes there would be considerable hand-work adding the commands for every single note, to make them appear in the right places); and the physical layout of the page is not difficult in itself. The benefit of all that typing, if done with the right kind of planning in mind, would be that later you'd easily be able to change the page size, amount of white space, fonts and font sizes, etc. The disadvantage would be that you would no longer have the clean, plain text of the Bible in your ConTeXt file; it would be permanently littered with commands and switches, so it would be much harder to check your textual accuracy. Therefore you would want to be quite sure you have exactly the Bible version you want, with all the spelling corrected and verses and paragraphs the way they ought to be and so on, before you begin your ConTeXt adventure. -- David R ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Can this layout be done in Context
On 7/23/2013 9:47 PM, David Rogers wrote: Russell Urquhart russurquha...@verizon.net writes: On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:19:27PM -0700, David Rogers wrote: To summarize: A page header with page number and guide word (the guide word showing which chapter of which book of the Bible begins on this page), two columns of regular text, margin notes *for both columns* set in their own special single (very narrow) centre column, and footnotes in one single large column, which is permitted to take a lot of vertical space on the page when necessary, with all those areas of the page separated from each other by thin ruled lines. Correct? I know that this example is probably a little extreme, but i love the layout of thise books, and while i may not want to be able to do something that has ALL of those layout attributes, i'd be curious as to what it would take on the Context side. I don't think it's extreme - I just wanted to make sure we didn't miss any of what it contains. I think there would need to be a lot of typing inside of the Bible text itself (for example, needing to manually tag each and every chapter of each book of the Bible), to get the guide-words to display correctly - you definitely wouldn't be able to just book-end the Bible with some code at the beginning and end. I don't know how easy it is to get margin notes from two different text columns to combine into one margin column. The rest of it seems not very challenging from a ConTeXt point of view - footnotes are quite well-supported (though again for both the footnotes and the margin notes there would be considerable hand-work adding the commands for every single note, to make them appear in the right places); and the physical layout of the page is not difficult in itself. critical editions is one area where extensions can be expected in context The benefit of all that typing, if done with the right kind of planning in mind, would be that later you'd easily be able to change the page size, amount of white space, fonts and font sizes, etc. The disadvantage would be that you would no longer have the clean, plain text of the Bible in your ConTeXt file; it would be permanently littered with commands and switches, so it would be much harder to check your textual accuracy. Therefore you would want to be quite sure you have exactly the Bible version you want, with all the spelling corrected and verses and paragraphs the way they ought to be and so on, before you begin your ConTeXt adventure. as long as you use enough structure it's ok and you can write checkers (often xml is a good choice too) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] footnotes on wrong page
On 7/23/2013 9:22 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:
What is the setting that forces ConTeXt to keep footnotes on the page
where they are called?
In the following example,
\setupinteraction[state=start]
\setupnotation[footnote][interaction=yes,way=bytext]
\setupnotation[footnote][split=verystrict]
\starttext
\dorecurse{50}{some text\footnote{a footnote} }
\stoptext
the call for note 42 and the note itself are on different pages. I
realize that this may be an extreme case, but, regrettably, that is what
I have in a review that I am typesetting.
you use the wrong command and there is also the scope parameter
\setupnotes[footnote][split=verystrict,scope=page]
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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[NTG-context] About Hyphenation
Hi List, I am very grateful with you all. Thanks for all the teaching.
Sorry if the message is too long.
I have read in several places that the commands \doublehyphendemerits and
\finalhyphendemerits are not a real way of dealing with the design issue
of too many hyphens in a row and/or avoiding a hyphen at the end of a page.
I have found that \doublehyphendemerits just avoids TWO hyphens in a row,
but not three or four, etc., and \finalhyphendemerits just doesn't work. I
have read the code, the wiki, the mail list, and the manuals, but with no
success yet. I'm working with grid, and using a widow/orphan control macro
found here on this list:
\setupalign[verytolerant,stretch,lesshyphenation,hz,hanging]
\startsetups[grid][correcto]
\setups[*reset]
\setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{1}
\setpenalties\clubpenalties{1}{1}
\setpenalties\brokenpenalties{1}{2}
\stopsetups
\doublehyphendemerits=2
\finalhyphendemerits=2
\setuplayout
[backspace=10.3ex,
width=62ex,
topspace=10.3ex,
height=124ex,
header=1em,
headerdistance=1em,
footer=1em,
footerdistance=2em,
margindistance=1em,
grid=yes,
setups=correcto]
As a book designer, one of my dreams is migrate all my work to ConTeXt, and
stop using adobe products; I think ConTeXt is a very good design tool.
However, this obstacle is frustrating that dream in part. I know that you
may say this hyphenation issue is a matter of taste! is not important!
but all the publishers I have worked with in the last 15 years have
emphasized that rule over and over again. I'm Colombian, so, I design books
mainly in spanish, and in spanish editions is a very common rule to avoid
more than 2 hyphens in a row. I understand that there are similar rules in
french, and I have read some discussions about it, but mostly the thread
finishes with something similar to use ragged right align and forget
hyphens (see http://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg68899.html).
So, questions are:
1. Is there any definitive way of avoiding 2 or more hyphens on a row AND
hyphens at the end of a page?
2. If is not, and it seems that is not (see
http://latex-community.org/know-how/latex/55-latex-general/475-e-tex#line-breaking)
how
do you manage? Do you just let hyphens be? Do you avoid hyphens using
\unhyphenated or \mbox by hand? No problem, if it's the standard solution,
but I think there should be some mechanism to avoid (n+) hyphens on a row,
something like \maxadjhyphens[2]. Is this impossible / too difficult? If it
is, I'm sorry for bothering you. I just really want to work with ConTeXt. I
have done a couple books for myself, to learn, but I want to take this into
production, and this single issue, so insignificant you may see it, is very
important for me, and I'm sure that other designers would find it very
important too.
Thank you all for your time.
Andrés Conrado Montoya
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Re: [NTG-context] About Hyphenation
On 2013–07–23 Andres Conrado Montoya wrote: \setupalign[verytolerant,stretch,lesshyphenation,hz,hanging] From my experience, stretch often leads to rather terrible spacing. I avoid it if wherever I can. 1. Is there any definitive way of avoiding […] hyphens at the end of a page? The penalty \brokenpenalty tells TeX how bad it is to break a page at a hyphen. \brokenpenalty1\relax Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
