Re: [NTG-context] Character translation with Luaotfload

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 Apr 2017, at 19:41, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 4/16/2017 7:06 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> 
>>> On 16 Apr 2017, at 15:49, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just look into the luatex-math.tex file to see how to properly define a 
>>> math family set, you can create a \stix macro analogue to the \lucidabright 
>>> and \latinmodern ones.
>> 
>> This works in the test example, but not the texinfo file, perhaps because it 
>> changes the escape character.
> 
> maybe .. i never used texinfo myself .. maybe it's not that complex to make a 
> context texinfo module that just has what is needed on top of a macro package 
> (after all it has a syntax definition so parsing and mapping onto some 
> configureable set of context commands is no biug deal) ... on the other 
> hand,. i think it is meant as stand alone package so better try to get 
> opentype fonts working in it

It is unclear what exact relation it might have to LuaTex and ConTeXt, but an 
interesting issue, though.

> basically you can do this:
> 
> -- load a luatex plain
> -- load texinfo
> -- redefine some macros that deal with fonts
> 
> -- load the source to be processed
> 
> the texinfo code looks quite clean so overloading some should be doable (if 
> you know what to overload)

Probably best to let the Texinfo people do it, as an important part is to be 
able to generate a host of different formats.


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Re: [NTG-context] Choosing STIX stylistic sets

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 Apr 2017, at 19:15, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 4/16/2017 6:01 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> 
>> So far I have only used \setupbodyfont[xits,10pt], but found no info about 
>> how to specifically selecting fonts for the different modes or ranges.
> 
> \setupbodyfont[termes]
> \setupbodyfont[pagella]
> \setupbodyfont[bonum]

But that sets it for all, text and math, right?

>>> just use a text font .. why does texinfo needs a math font? only for math i 
>>> assume
>> 
>> Right, and writing the Unicode math characters in the UTF-8 source file, in 
>> part because they will be also used as such in the source code of a program. 
>> One can otherwise embed formulas using traditional TeX syntax.
> 
> it's a bit more complex in the tex world: users are accustomed to seeing the 
> a in $a$ becoming a math italic a and $\bf a$ getting a bold a .. both are in 
> the unicode math alphabet so a macro package has to support both these switch 
> driven inputs and direct unicode math (also because cut and paste from a pdf 
> should work)

We discussed that by option \setupmathematics[lcgreek=normal, default=normal], 
which makes sure math characters are untranslated. I have used that for some 
time now, and that works fine.

> (the way macro packages implement that can be fundamental different)
> 
> (there is a font project under way that will provide monospaced math 
> characters for editing)

We discussed that, too. ASCII computer code that has been written in monospace 
using space to produce column looks weird in a variable width font, but 
otherwise, it is just a style.

> 
 Also, in script/calligraphic, STIX2 seems to have is the other way around 
 relative stix-two-math.lfg: setting the feature 'ss01' yields the 
 traditional English script style, whereas the default is the AMS 
 calligraphic style.
>>> 
>>> that's also a design issue
>> 
>> Not anymore, perhaps, as some mathematicians seem to think of them as 
>> different semantic styles.
> 
> if so, then that will be reflected in unicode alphabets (just make a string 
> case for it)

It has been discussed on the Unicode list. Personally, I think the calligraphic 
style looks wrong. The script style is essentially an English handwritten 
style, also used in Sweden.


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Re: [NTG-context] Character translation with Luaotfload

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/16/2017 7:06 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 16 Apr 2017, at 15:49, Hans Hagen  wrote:

Just look into the luatex-math.tex file to see how to properly define a math 
family set, you can create a \stix macro analogue to the \lucidabright and 
\latinmodern ones.


This works in the test example, but not the texinfo file, perhaps because it 
changes the escape character.


maybe .. i never used texinfo myself .. maybe it's not that complex to 
make a context texinfo module that just has what is needed on top of a 
macro package (after all it has a syntax definition so parsing and 
mapping onto some configureable set of context commands is no biug deal) 
... on the other hand,. i think it is meant as stand alone package so 
better try to get opentype fonts working in it


basically you can do this:

-- load a luatex plain
-- load texinfo
-- redefine some macros that deal with fonts

-- load the source to be processed

the texinfo code looks quite clean so overloading some should be doable 
(if you know what to overload)


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Choosing STIX stylistic sets

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/16/2017 6:01 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 16 Apr 2017, at 16:37, Hans Hagen  wrote:

On 4/16/2017 3:56 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 15 Apr 2017, at 00:22, Hans Hagen  wrote:

On 4/14/2017 12:42 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:

With the STIX Two fonts [1-2], one can choose say Stylistic Set 8  for 
more upright integrals. How is that done in ConTeXt with XITS?

1. https://sourceforge.net/projects/stixfonts/
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIX_Fonts_project#STIX_2.0.0


see stix-two-math.lfg

\setmathfontalternate{whatever}


This is complicated, it seems: The STIX2Math font does not have the text 
support that STIX has, so one might want a virtual font, or set the math font 
independently (I could find any info about that on ConTeXtGarden).


there is no real text support in math fonts ... it's alphabets ... the fact 
that one shares e.g. a textfont in math mode with a regular text font outside 
math is something traditional tex (and more a font design and macro package 
issue that an engine thing)


So far I have only used \setupbodyfont[xits,10pt], but found no info about how 
to specifically selecting fonts for the different modes or ranges.


\setupbodyfont[termes]
\setupbodyfont[pagella]
\setupbodyfont[bonum]

on windows (cambria is the opentype reference fonmt for math):

\setupbodyfont[cambria]

or when you bought lucida ot:

\setupbodyfont[lucidaot]

all have math


just use a text font .. why does texinfo needs a math font? only for math i 
assume


Right, and writing the Unicode math characters in the UTF-8 source file, in 
part because they will be also used as such in the source code of a program. 
One can otherwise embed formulas using traditional TeX syntax.


it's a bit more complex in the tex world: users are accustomed to seeing 
the a in $a$ becoming a math italic a and $\bf a$ getting a bold a .. 
both are in the unicode math alphabet so a macro package has to support 
both these switch driven inputs and direct unicode math (also because 
cut and paste from a pdf should work)


(the way macro packages implement that can be fundamental different)

(there is a font project under way that will provide monospaced math 
characters for editing)



Also, in script/calligraphic, STIX2 seems to have is the other way around 
relative stix-two-math.lfg: setting the feature 'ss01' yields the traditional 
English script style, whereas the default is the AMS calligraphic style.


that's also a design issue


Not anymore, perhaps, as some mathematicians seem to think of them as different 
semantic styles.


if so, then that will be reflected in unicode alphabets (just make a 
string case for it)



On most other features, the STIX2 default seems to what I think of as 
traditional.


personally i'd never use stix for something


I used STIX because it came around, and, also, the AMS has been involved. It 
good there are other fonts, though.


finally came around .. but it's not a pretty font


(one can use texgyre pagella or termes)


What is the advantage of those?


a palatino based font looks imo better than stix

(as open type font they are around a bit longer and we have a bit more 
influence on their development)


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Character translation with Luaotfload

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 Apr 2017, at 15:49, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> Just look into the luatex-math.tex file to see how to properly define a math 
> family set, you can create a \stix macro analogue to the \lucidabright and 
> \latinmodern ones.

This works in the test example, but not the texinfo file, perhaps because it 
changes the escape character.


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Re: [NTG-context] Choosing STIX stylistic sets

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 Apr 2017, at 16:37, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 4/16/2017 3:56 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> 
>>> On 15 Apr 2017, at 00:22, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 4/14/2017 12:42 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
 With the STIX Two fonts [1-2], one can choose say Stylistic Set 8  
 for more upright integrals. How is that done in ConTeXt with XITS?
 
 1. https://sourceforge.net/projects/stixfonts/
 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIX_Fonts_project#STIX_2.0.0
>>> 
>>> see stix-two-math.lfg
>>> 
>>> \setmathfontalternate{whatever}
>> 
>> This is complicated, it seems: The STIX2Math font does not have the text 
>> support that STIX has, so one might want a virtual font, or set the math 
>> font independently (I could find any info about that on ConTeXtGarden).
> 
> there is no real text support in math fonts ... it's alphabets ... the fact 
> that one shares e.g. a textfont in math mode with a regular text font outside 
> math is something traditional tex (and more a font design and macro package 
> issue that an engine thing)

So far I have only used \setupbodyfont[xits,10pt], but found no info about how 
to specifically selecting fonts for the different modes or ranges.

> just use a text font .. why does texinfo needs a math font? only for math i 
> assume

Right, and writing the Unicode math characters in the UTF-8 source file, in 
part because they will be also used as such in the source code of a program. 
One can otherwise embed formulas using traditional TeX syntax.

>> Also, in script/calligraphic, STIX2 seems to have is the other way around 
>> relative stix-two-math.lfg: setting the feature 'ss01' yields the 
>> traditional English script style, whereas the default is the AMS 
>> calligraphic style.
> 
> that's also a design issue

Not anymore, perhaps, as some mathematicians seem to think of them as different 
semantic styles.

>> On most other features, the STIX2 default seems to what I think of as 
>> traditional.
> 
> personally i'd never use stix for something

I used STIX because it came around, and, also, the AMS has been involved. It 
good there are other fonts, though. 

> (one can use texgyre pagella or termes)

What is the advantage of those?


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Re: [NTG-context] Choosing STIX stylistic sets

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/16/2017 3:56 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 15 Apr 2017, at 00:22, Hans Hagen  wrote:

On 4/14/2017 12:42 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:

With the STIX Two fonts [1-2], one can choose say Stylistic Set 8  for 
more upright integrals. How is that done in ConTeXt with XITS?

1. https://sourceforge.net/projects/stixfonts/
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIX_Fonts_project#STIX_2.0.0


see stix-two-math.lfg

\setmathfontalternate{whatever}


This is complicated, it seems: The STIX2Math font does not have the text 
support that STIX has, so one might want a virtual font, or set the math font 
independently (I could find any info about that on ConTeXtGarden).


there is no real text support in math fonts ... it's alphabets ... the 
fact that one shares e.g. a textfont in math mode with a regular text 
font outside math is something traditional tex (and more a font design 
and macro package issue that an engine thing)


just use a text font .. why does texinfo needs a math font? only for 
math i assume



Also, in script/calligraphic, STIX2 seems to have is the other way around 
relative stix-two-math.lfg: setting the feature 'ss01' yields the traditional 
English script style, whereas the default is the AMS calligraphic style.


that's also a design issue


On most other features, the STIX2 default seems to what I think of as 
traditional.


personally i'd never use stix for something (one can use texgyre pagella 
or termes)



The feature 'ss07', smaller operators, might be nice to have, but U2205 looks 
strange, as the empty set symbol comes from a Danish ø, so deselecting just 
that one might be of interest.


one more reason for not using stix

Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] \hyphenation command in TL 16

[Florian Grammel]

Obviously fixed in new beta. Splendid -- thank you!
Florian.

> Den 14. apr. 2017 kl. 01.20 skrev Florian Grammel
> 
> ok, thanks;
> so I’ll need to get some things to work in the standalone then…
> 
> For one ver: 2017.04.08 12:00 doesn’t seem to hyphenate in \WORDS
> Please compare
> 
> \setuphead[section][style={\WORDS}]
> \section{this is bit of a problem problem problem problem problem problem 
> problem problems}
> 
> on the standalone (last word in the margin) to TL16 (properly hyphenated)
> 
> Can this be fixed?
> 
> Best
> Florian.
> 
>> Den 13. apr. 2017 kl. 22.10 skrev Hans Hagen > >:
>> 
>> On 4/13/2017 9:37 PM, Florian Grammel wrote:
>>> The \hyphenation{}-command is ignored in the texlive 2016 version (ver: 
>>> 2016.05.17 19:20 MKIV). This has obviously been fixed since, as it works in 
>>> the standalone.
>>> 
>>> For other reasons I’d prefer to keep working with the TL16-version -- is it 
>>> possible to patch the hyphenation easily in TL 16?
>> 
>> unlikely
>> 
>> Hans
>> 
>> 
>> -
>>  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl  | 
>> www.pragma-pod.nl 
>> -
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>> the Wiki!
>> 
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>> ___
> 
> 
> 
> Florian Grammel
> 
> Copenhagen, Denmark
> 

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Re: [NTG-context] Character translation with Luaotfload

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 Apr 2017, at 15:49, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 4/16/2017 3:06 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> 
>> It works with texinfo: just include it, but it seems keeping luatex-math.lua 
>> in the directory speeds up compilation. I used the code below at the 
>> beginning of the .texi file.
> 
> i don't understand the speed issue ... maybe you need to adapt the texinput 
> path variable so that it can find the file in the tex tree

I have two LuaTeX, one is from texlive/2016, and the other from you site (on 
MacOS). The latter does not work on its own, so I must choose the former.

> 
>> 
>> \input luaotfload.sty
>> \input luatex-math.tex
>> 
>> \font\stix={file:STIX-Regular.otf}
> 
> Just look into the luatex-math.tex file to see how to properly define a math 
> family set, you can create a \stix macro analogue to the \lucidabright and 
> \latinmodern ones.

I may be beyond my programming abilities: The texinfo.tex file overrides the 
font, it seems, so I just hacked up something that works. :-)


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Re: [NTG-context] Choosing STIX stylistic sets

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 Apr 2017, at 00:22, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 4/14/2017 12:42 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> With the STIX Two fonts [1-2], one can choose say Stylistic Set 8  for 
>> more upright integrals. How is that done in ConTeXt with XITS?
>> 
>> 1. https://sourceforge.net/projects/stixfonts/
>> 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIX_Fonts_project#STIX_2.0.0
> 
> see stix-two-math.lfg
> 
> \setmathfontalternate{whatever}

This is complicated, it seems: The STIX2Math font does not have the text 
support that STIX has, so one might want a virtual font, or set the math font 
independently (I could find any info about that on ConTeXtGarden).

Also, in script/calligraphic, STIX2 seems to have is the other way around 
relative stix-two-math.lfg: setting the feature 'ss01' yields the traditional 
English script style, whereas the default is the AMS calligraphic style.

On most other features, the STIX2 default seems to what I think of as 
traditional.

The feature 'ss07', smaller operators, might be nice to have, but U2205 looks 
strange, as the empty set symbol comes from a Danish ø, so deselecting just 
that one might be of interest.


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Re: [NTG-context] Character translation with Luaotfload

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/16/2017 3:06 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 16 Apr 2017, at 12:51, Hans Hagen  wrote:

On 4/15/2017 10:42 AM, Hans Åberg wrote:

Since Luaotfload is extracted from ConTeXt, I figure people here will know this:

In the code below, math mode '.' and ',' are translated into ':'and ';', which 
seems to occur because that is what ASCII/Unicode has in those positions, 
unlike CMMI. So how to correct this?

The issue is really trying to find get texinfo.tex working with Unicode fonts 
using LuaTeX, as it probably does not work with ConTeXt. (Later versions of the 
former use LuaTeX UTF-8 directly without translations.)


There is a luatex-math.tex file in the context distribution that you can look 
in .. basically you need to define the proper math character mapping (context 
ship swith a plain setup too).


It works with texinfo: just include it, but it seems keeping luatex-math.lua in 
the directory speeds up compilation. I used the code below at the beginning of 
the .texi file.


i don't understand the speed issue ... maybe you need to adapt the 
texinput path variable so that it can find the file in the tex tree




\input luaotfload.sty
\input luatex-math.tex

\font\stix={file:STIX-Regular.otf}


Just look into the luatex-math.tex file to see how to properly define a 
math family set, you can create a \stix macro analogue to the 
\lucidabright and \latinmodern ones.


fwiw, here i test plain with:

mtxrun --script plain --make

and

mtxrun --script plain somefile

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Character translation with Luaotfload

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 Apr 2017, at 12:51, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 4/15/2017 10:42 AM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> Since Luaotfload is extracted from ConTeXt, I figure people here will know 
>> this:
>> 
>> In the code below, math mode '.' and ',' are translated into ':'and ';', 
>> which seems to occur because that is what ASCII/Unicode has in those 
>> positions, unlike CMMI. So how to correct this?
>> 
>> The issue is really trying to find get texinfo.tex working with Unicode 
>> fonts using LuaTeX, as it probably does not work with ConTeXt. (Later 
>> versions of the former use LuaTeX UTF-8 directly without translations.)
> 
> There is a luatex-math.tex file in the context distribution that you can look 
> in .. basically you need to define the proper math character mapping (context 
> ship swith a plain setup too).

It works with texinfo: just include it, but it seems keeping luatex-math.lua in 
the directory speeds up compilation. I used the code below at the beginning of 
the .texi file.


\input luaotfload.sty
\input luatex-math.tex

\font\stix={file:STIX-Regular.otf}

\input texinfo @c -*-texinfo-*-
@textfont0=@stix
@textfont1=@stix
@scriptfont1=@stix
@scriptscriptfont1=@stix




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Re: [NTG-context] Character translation with Luaotfload

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/15/2017 10:42 AM, Hans Åberg wrote:

Since Luaotfload is extracted from ConTeXt, I figure people here will know this:

In the code below, math mode '.' and ',' are translated into ':'and ';', which 
seems to occur because that is what ASCII/Unicode has in those positions, 
unlike CMMI. So how to correct this?

The issue is really trying to find get texinfo.tex working with Unicode fonts 
using LuaTeX, as it probably does not work with ConTeXt. (Later versions of the 
former use LuaTeX UTF-8 directly without translations.)


\input luaotfload.sty

\font\stix={file:STIX-Regular.otf} at 10pt
\font\stixit={name:STIXMath-Regular} at 10pt
\font\stixsc={file:STIX-Regular.otf} at 7pt
\font\stixscsc={file:STIX-Regular.otf} at 5pt
\stix

\textfont0=\stix
\textfont1=\stixit  % Translates ',' into ';'.
\scriptfont0=\stixsc
\scriptscriptfont0=\stixscsc
\scriptfont1=\stixsc
\scriptscriptfont1=\stixscsc
\textfont2=\stix
\textfont3=\stix

Hello 푃, ±, $푥 = ±푦_푃$,
$$푃_0, …, 푃_{푘 - 1} ⊢ 푃.$$


There is a luatex-math.tex file in the context distribution that you can 
look in .. basically you need to define the proper math character 
mapping (context ship swith a plain setup too).


Hans

-
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Re: [NTG-context] location of command reference

[Meer, Hans van der]

Thanks to both of you. 

It thus turns out there are two copies of the Command Reference!

Grepping for command or reference did find neither of them and "qrcs" didn't 
ring a bell when searching 'by eye'.
I will provide a link in my contextbeta install script in order to not losing 
them again when installing a new beta.
But I think it would be a good idea to change there names to something like 
command-ref.pdf

Hans van der Meer



> On 15 Apr 2017, at 13:19, Wolfgang Schuster  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Look for the files at the following path: 
> tex/texmf-context/doc/context/documents/general/qrcs
> 


> On 15 Apr 2017, at 11:10, Pablo Rodriguez  wrote:
> 
> On 04/14/2017 03:09 PM, Meer, Hans van der wrote:
>> Where is the handy Command Reference to be found in the beta distribution?
>> I do not see it in ./tex/texmf-context/doc/context/documents/general/manuals
>> and could not spot it elsewhere.
> 
> Hans,
> 
> the ConTeXt Suite has it at
> tex/texmf-context/tex/context/interface/mkiv/i-context.pdf.
> 
> I hope it helps,
> 
> -- 

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