Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On Mar 14, 2023, at 3:32 PM, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote: > On 3/14/2023 7:14 PM, Alan Braslau via ntg-context wrote: >> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:03:23 -0600 >> Gavin wrote: >>> I’d really like one of the acceptable forms to be the form prescribed >>> by Le Système international d'unités > > Maybe the french title is one of the reasons for the USA not picking up on > these units? (So let me threaten once again to kick the "in" unit out of > context.) > >> I believe that this point is essential,…. Alan and I will come up with a scheme that fastidiously follows the SI, and release it as a “North American localization.” That should leave everyone sufficiently puzzled, annoyed, or amused. Signing off of this subject until 27 May. Thanks for all your help! Gavin ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On 3/14/2023 7:14 PM, Alan Braslau via ntg-context wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:03:23 -0600
Gavin wrote:
I’d really like one of the acceptable forms to be the form prescribed
by Le Système international d'unités
Maybe the french title is one of the reasons for the USA not picking up
on these units? (So let me threaten once again to kick the "in" unit out
of context.)
I believe that this point is essential, regardless of history of use of
the \unit{} command. Non-standard use of units can be *tolerated* as
long as they do not conflict with the SI and do not impose non-standard
syntax.
Alan
P.S. It is our guarded secret that the weather is nice here in
Colorado. I do not know of any other place that has real seasons AND
where it is (almost) always sunny! :-)
Here it fluctuates from zero to 15 (and behind the single pane glass in
the office room with sun on it then 18 or more). Now of course, given
units, you have to guess how much that is becuase you're with your
French foot in Celsius, and the English one in Farhenheit and with both
feet in Kelvin (for your book).
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
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tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On 3/14/2023 7:03 PM, Gavin via ntg-context wrote:
I’d like to better understand how the \unit{} command works and why those
choices were made. Some of the choices seem to be “asking for troubles,” but
perhaps they are essential for some users.
I wonder if Alan was using context when the first unit module showed up
in (what wasn't even call;ed mkii) because it is one of the oldest
context modules and we use(d) for typesetting education related
documents. Among the reasons for it was that in the pre-unicode times
one had to compromise on a math / text mixture due to the way fonts and
input was handled.
I’m happy to have the unit command accept a variety of different forms for the
unit, but I’d really like one of the acceptable forms to be the form prescribed
by Le Système international d'unités, so that “m s” is a meter second and “ms”
is a millisecond. However, I’m not sure if this goal conflicts with other
important goals.
Would you like to explore \unit{} this summer to see if we can find a
consistent solution? Perhaps we can produce a plan for \unit{} that does not
conflict with other \unit{} features, or perhaps we can make a module that
lacks some of the features of \unit{} but conforms to the SI for input as well
as output. I would be happy with either.
In principle one can think of different schemes (for different purposes
even), after all everything is in tables; that is probably easier than
tring to come up with some complex compromise. There can be instances of
unit with different properties.
Hans
-
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:03:23 -0600
Gavin wrote:
> I’d really like one of the acceptable forms to be the form prescribed
> by Le Système international d'unités
I believe that this point is essential, regardless of history of use of
the \unit{} command. Non-standard use of units can be *tolerated* as
long as they do not conflict with the SI and do not impose non-standard
syntax.
Alan
P.S. It is our guarded secret that the weather is nice here in
Colorado. I do not know of any other place that has real seasons AND
where it is (almost) always sunny! :-)
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On Mar 14, 2023, at 10:08 AM, Alan Braslau via ntg-context
wrote:
> Right now, \unit{1 mm-1} and \unit{1 m m-1} give the same result:
> inverse millimeters (whereas the second should be m•m^{-1}…)
>
> Alan
Alan,
I’d like to better understand how the \unit{} command works and why those
choices were made. Some of the choices seem to be “asking for troubles,” but
perhaps they are essential for some users.
I’m happy to have the unit command accept a variety of different forms for the
unit, but I’d really like one of the acceptable forms to be the form prescribed
by Le Système international d'unités, so that “m s” is a meter second and “ms”
is a millisecond. However, I’m not sure if this goal conflicts with other
important goals.
Would you like to explore \unit{} this summer to see if we can find a
consistent solution? Perhaps we can produce a plan for \unit{} that does not
conflict with other \unit{} features, or perhaps we can make a module that
lacks some of the features of \unit{} but conforms to the SI for input as well
as output. I would be happy with either.
I’d also like to work on the luagraph module this summer. I’m getting a lot
better at MetaPost programming!
I can’t approach either issue in a comprehensive way until the summer, because
I have a lot of content to produce for our physics class. This year we kept on
schedule – for the first time ever! – and that means we will be studying a
couple of topics that I haven’t prepared yet.
Obviously, anyone else interested in \unit{} or luagraph would be welcome to
join us, either remotely or here in sunny Fort Collins, Colorado. (School ends
here on May 26.)
Gavin
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On 3/14/2023 5:33 PM, Gavin via ntg-context wrote:
Hi Alan, Hans, and List,
On Mar 13, 2023, at 8:10 PM, Alan Braslau via ntg-context
wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:55:50 -0600 Gavin via ntg-context
wrote:
you can look at phys-dim and see plenty of short and long keys and
making all case insensitive is asking for troubles
Indeed, I would like to make NONE of them case insensitive. But
currently, when I register an upper case key (C=coulomb) it messes up
the lower case prefix (“cm" gets typeset as C•m). I was expecting the
parser to distinguish between the “C” and “c”, but it doesn’t. Is
that intended?
Indeed, \unit{} should allow (and presently does not) K, C, etc.
I agree. I added the following lines to phys-dim.lua, following line 461
C = "coulomb",
K = "kelvin",
N = "newton",
This provided the desired capital shortcuts without compromising the lowercase
prefixes. Hans, could we get those added to phys-dim.lua in the distribution? I
would be happy to do a more comprehensive search for shortcuts to add, but
those are the three I and my collaborators are using now.
maybe, when there are no conflicts
Looking at why my \registerunit attempt failed, I found that when you register
a unit, both your capitalization, and an all lowercase version are registered.
Here is an example, where I register “ReTeM” but \unit{1 retem} also works.
\starttext
\registerunit[unit][ReTeM=myunit]
\setupunittext[myunit=reTeM]
\startformula
\unit{1 ReTeM} = \unit{1 retem} \neq \unit{1 reteM}
\stopformula
\stoptext
The results are case sensitive, so \unit{1 reteM} does not work. The lowercase
version is produced for all “long” units, but not for shortcuts. (See phys-dim.lua,
lines 766-771 where the Lua string function “lower” is used.) Perhaps we could use a
\registershortcut command that does not get the “lower" treatment. I will look
into it some more.
see previous mail, i already added that but no upload yet
P.S. I think there is a spelling error in phys-dim.lua, lines 974-981.
local mapping = {
prefix = "prefixes",
unit = "units",
operator = "operators",
suffixe = "suffixes",
symbol = "symbols",
packaged = "packaged",
}
The key “suffixe” should probably be “suffix”.
indeed, i noticed that when extending
Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
I wrote > Perhaps we could use a \registershortcut command that does not get the > “lower" treatment. without seeing that Hans had already read my mind and provided: \registerunitshortcut [unit] [C=coulomb] That should work great. Thanks! Gavin ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
Hi Alan, Hans, and List,
> On Mar 13, 2023, at 8:10 PM, Alan Braslau via ntg-context
> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:55:50 -0600 Gavin via ntg-context
> wrote:
>>> you can look at phys-dim and see plenty of short and long keys and
>>> making all case insensitive is asking for troubles
>>
>> Indeed, I would like to make NONE of them case insensitive. But
>> currently, when I register an upper case key (C=coulomb) it messes up
>> the lower case prefix (“cm" gets typeset as C•m). I was expecting the
>> parser to distinguish between the “C” and “c”, but it doesn’t. Is
>> that intended?
>
> Indeed, \unit{} should allow (and presently does not) K, C, etc.
I agree. I added the following lines to phys-dim.lua, following line 461
C = "coulomb",
K = "kelvin",
N = "newton",
This provided the desired capital shortcuts without compromising the lowercase
prefixes. Hans, could we get those added to phys-dim.lua in the distribution? I
would be happy to do a more comprehensive search for shortcuts to add, but
those are the three I and my collaborators are using now.
Looking at why my \registerunit attempt failed, I found that when you register
a unit, both your capitalization, and an all lowercase version are registered.
Here is an example, where I register “ReTeM” but \unit{1 retem} also works.
\starttext
\registerunit[unit][ReTeM=myunit]
\setupunittext[myunit=reTeM]
\startformula
\unit{1 ReTeM} = \unit{1 retem} \neq \unit{1 reteM}
\stopformula
\stoptext
The results are case sensitive, so \unit{1 reteM} does not work. The lowercase
version is produced for all “long” units, but not for shortcuts. (See
phys-dim.lua, lines 766-771 where the Lua string function “lower” is used.)
Perhaps we could use a \registershortcut command that does not get the “lower"
treatment. I will look into it some more.
Thanks!
Gavin
P.S. I think there is a spelling error in phys-dim.lua, lines 974-981.
local mapping = {
prefix = "prefixes",
unit = "units",
operator = "operators",
suffixe = "suffixes",
symbol = "symbols",
packaged = "packaged",
}
The key “suffixe” should probably be “suffix”.
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:36:37 +0100
Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> > Indeed, I would like to make NONE of them case insensitive. But
> > currently, when I register an upper case key (C=coulomb) it messes
> > up the lower case prefix (“cm" gets typeset as C•m). I was
> > expecting the parser to distinguish between the “C” and “c”, but it
> > doesn’t. Is that intended?
> I added an option and an extra registers but it's up to you to decide
> hwo to use it (and how to deal with conflicts in definitions).
There should not be conflicts, for, formally,
c should be 1/100
C should be Coulomb
k should be 1000
K should be Kelvin
n should be 10^{-9}
N should be Newton
m should be meter
M should be 10^6
(but m also means 10^{-3})
etc.
The problems arise as \unit{} presently accepts
Kelvin and kelvin
Newton and newton
Coulomb and coulomb
Watt and watt
etc.
also, mm could be millimeters, or it could be m•m (m^2).
Right now, \unit{1 mm-1} and \unit{1 m m-1} give the same result:
inverse millimeters (whereas the second should be m•m^{-1}, also known
as radians! ;-)
I suggest that it be limited to formal (and well-defined) unit names,
respecting casing.
I also suggest that unrecognized units either give an error message in
stdout and in the log file and show up in the output (as {\tt } to
be coherent with other subsystems), rather than to be simply ignored.
Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On 3/13/2023 10:55 PM, Gavin wrote:
On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:44 PM, Hans Hagen via ntg-context
wrote:
On 3/9/2023 2:04 PM, Gavin via ntg-context wrote:
\startformula
\unit{3 meter} \qquad
\unit{6 Meter} \qquad
\unit{3 mEtEr} \qquad
\stopformula
Units with lowercase prefixes (c, k, n).
\startformula
\unit{3cm} \qquad
\unit{6kg} \qquad
\unit{3ns} \qquad
\stopformula
Units with capital letters, called with names (coulomb, kelvin, newton).
\startformula
\unit{3 coulomb} \qquad
\unit{6 kelvin} \qquad
\unit{3 newton} \qquad
\stopformula
you can look at phys-dim and see plenty of short and long keys and making all
case insensitive is asking for troubles
Indeed, I would like to make NONE of them case insensitive. But currently, when I
register an upper case key (C=coulomb) it messes up the lower case prefix (“cm"
gets typeset as C•m). I was expecting the parser to distinguish between the “C” and
“c”, but it doesn’t. Is that intended?
I added an option and an extra registers but it's up to you to decide
hwo to use it (and how to deal with conflicts in definitions).
\registerunit
[unit]
[Point=PT,
point=pt,
Basepoint=BP,
% basepoint=bp,
]
\registerunitshortcut
[unit]
[C=coulomb]
\startlines
10 \unit {square meter per second}
10 \unit {square Meter per Second}
10 \unit {point}
10 \unit {Point}
10 \unit {basepoint}
10 \unit {Basepoint}
10 \unit {C}
\stoplines
\setupunit[unit][option=keep]
\startlines
10 \unit {square meter per second}
10 \unit {square Meter per Second}
10 \unit {point}
10 \unit {Point}
10 \unit {basepoint}
10 \unit {Basepoint}
10 \unit {C}
\stoplines
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
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tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:55:50 -0600
Gavin via ntg-context wrote:
> > you can look at phys-dim and see plenty of short and long keys and
> > making all case insensitive is asking for troubles
>
> Indeed, I would like to make NONE of them case insensitive. But
> currently, when I register an upper case key (C=coulomb) it messes up
> the lower case prefix (“cm" gets typeset as C•m). I was expecting the
> parser to distinguish between the “C” and “c”, but it doesn’t. Is
> that intended?
Indeed, \unit{} should allow (and presently does not) K, C, etc.
Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
> On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:44 PM, Hans Hagen via ntg-context
> wrote:
>
> On 3/9/2023 2:04 PM, Gavin via ntg-context wrote:
>> \startformula
>> \unit{3 meter} \qquad
>> \unit{6 Meter} \qquad
>> \unit{3 mEtEr} \qquad
>> \stopformula
>> Units with lowercase prefixes (c, k, n).
>> \startformula
>> \unit{3cm} \qquad
>> \unit{6kg} \qquad
>> \unit{3ns} \qquad
>> \stopformula
>> Units with capital letters, called with names (coulomb, kelvin, newton).
>> \startformula
>> \unit{3 coulomb} \qquad
>> \unit{6 kelvin} \qquad
>> \unit{3 newton} \qquad
>> \stopformula
>
> you can look at phys-dim and see plenty of short and long keys and making all
> case insensitive is asking for troubles
Indeed, I would like to make NONE of them case insensitive. But currently, when
I register an upper case key (C=coulomb) it messes up the lower case prefix
(“cm" gets typeset as C•m). I was expecting the parser to distinguish between
the “C” and “c”, but it doesn’t. Is that intended?
Gavin
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Re: [NTG-context] \unit parser ignoring case, in some cases.
On 3/9/2023 2:04 PM, Gavin via ntg-context wrote:
\startformula
\unit{3 meter} \qquad
\unit{6 Meter} \qquad
\unit{3 mEtEr} \qquad
\stopformula
Units with lowercase prefixes (c, k, n).
\startformula
\unit{3cm} \qquad
\unit{6kg} \qquad
\unit{3ns} \qquad
\stopformula
Units with capital letters, called with names (coulomb, kelvin, newton).
\startformula
\unit{3 coulomb} \qquad
\unit{6 kelvin} \qquad
\unit{3 newton} \qquad
\stopformula
you can look at phys-dim and see plenty of short and long keys and
making all case insensitive is asking for troubles
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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