Re: [NTG-context] treat framed and externalfigure as characters

2006-05-10 Thread Peter Münster 
On Tue, 9 May 2006, Hans Hagen wrote:

  There is a fundamental difference between
   bla \framed{bla} bla
  and
   \framed{bla} bla bla
  that is not understandable.

 this is the case for many more things and a tex speciality which takes 
 while to get accustomed to; a similar case is
 
 {\bf whatever} rest of par

Hello Hans,
I tried this:
\setupindenting[big,yes]
\starttext
\input tufte

{\bf whatever} rest of par
\input tufte
\stoptext

But I don't see the problem... ?

 btw, there is \inframed for inline usage, or one could define a symbol

Thanks, I'll take a look at it.

Cheers, Peter

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Re: [NTG-context] treat framed and externalfigure as characters

2006-05-10 Thread Hans Hagen 
� wrote:
 On Tue, 9 May 2006, Hans Hagen wrote:

   
 There is a fundamental difference between
  bla \framed{bla} bla
 and
  \framed{bla} bla bla
 that is not understandable.
   
   
 this is the case for many more things and a tex speciality which takes 
 while to get accustomed to; a similar case is

 {\bf whatever} rest of par
 

 Hello Hans,
 I tried this:
 \setupindenting[big,yes]
 \starttext
 \input tufte

 {\bf whatever} rest of par
 \input tufte
 \stoptext

 But I don't see the problem... ?
   
it's just an example (bad one because i don't remember the cases)

think of

{\command ...} rest of par
\command ... rest of par

and possible interferences with special \everypar situations (par starts 
in group or with command that itself does something that depends on the 
h/v mode)

Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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Re: [NTG-context] treat framed and externalfigure as characters

2006-05-09 Thread Taco Hoekwater 
Peter Münster wrote:
 Hello Taco and Hans,
 
 in http://context.literatesolutions.com/collector/89
 you write
Both Hans and me have documents that depend on \framed staying in
 vertical mode.
 
 Could you give me an example please?

For instance in a recipe booklet, where one of the macros
goes like this:

   \def\startrecipe[#1]%
 {\getparameters[Recipe]
[Title=,Summary=,Image=none,#1]% ..
  \framed{\tfd \RecipeTitle}%
  \externalfigure[\RecipeImage]%
  {\bf\RecipeSummary}%
  \blank }

I am not saying that that is the best way to write macros (and I 
certainly do not do it like that anymore) but changing the behaviour
would break quite a lot of my existing documents, including some
I have been payed for to do.

Maybe Hans is willing to add a global switch that you can set at
the top of your document(s).

For Hans: Peter would like an implicit \dontleavehmode added to
\framed and \externalfigure, so they behave more like characters
(not like \hboxes).

Cheers, Taco





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Re: [NTG-context] treat framed and externalfigure as characters

2006-05-09 Thread Peter Münster 
On Tue, 9 May 2006, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

 Peter Münster wrote:
  Hello Taco and Hans,
  
  in http://context.literatesolutions.com/collector/89
  you write
 Both Hans and me have documents that depend on \framed staying in
  vertical mode.
  
  Could you give me an example please?
 
 For instance in a recipe booklet, where one of the macros
 goes like this:
 
\def\startrecipe[#1]%
  {\getparameters[Recipe]
 [Title=,Summary=,Image=none,#1]% ..
   \framed{\tfd \RecipeTitle}%
   \externalfigure[\RecipeImage]%
   {\bf\RecipeSummary}%
   \blank }
 
 I am not saying that that is the best way to write macros (and I 
 certainly do not do it like that anymore) but changing the behaviour
 would break quite a lot of my existing documents, including some
 I have been payed for to do.

Hello Taco,
I understand and accept your arguments. Even for me, it's no more problem
to add here and there a \dontleavehmode, since I know it now. But for a
beginner and a user without ambition to become a ConTeXt expert, the actual
behaviour is annoying. He just sees a line break, where he does not expect
it. There is a fundamental difference between
 bla \framed{bla} bla
and
 \framed{bla} bla bla
that is not understandable.

It's much more straightforward and clear to add a \par (and perhaps
\noindentation) if you really want this line break (for example in your
macro \startrecipe).

 Maybe Hans is willing to add a global switch that you can set at
 the top of your document(s).

Perhaps one day, I would like to convert some of my colleagues from M$-Word
to ConTeXt, but if I have to teach them about things like \dontleavehmode
there is no need for further efforts. So, such a switch would be very
welcome (I would put it into cont-sys.tex)!

Cheers, Peter

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Re: [NTG-context] treat framed and externalfigure as characters

2006-05-09 Thread Hans Hagen 
Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 Peter M�nster wrote:
   
 Hello Taco and Hans,

 in http://context.literatesolutions.com/collector/89
 you write
Both Hans and me have documents that depend on \framed staying in
 vertical mode.

 Could you give me an example please?
 

 For instance in a recipe booklet, where one of the macros
 goes like this:

\def\startrecipe[#1]%
  {\getparameters[Recipe]
 [Title=,Summary=,Image=none,#1]% ..
   \framed{\tfd \RecipeTitle}%
   \externalfigure[\RecipeImage]%
   {\bf\RecipeSummary}%
   \blank }

 I am not saying that that is the best way to write macros (and I 
 certainly do not do it like that anymore) but changing the behaviour
 would break quite a lot of my existing documents, including some
 I have been payed for to do.

 Maybe Hans is willing to add a global switch that you can set at
 the top of your document(s).

 For Hans: Peter would like an implicit \dontleavehmode added to
 \framed and \externalfigure, so they behave more like characters
 (not like \hboxes).
   
as you say, a dangerous feature that would break much (keep in mind that 
\framed is used all over the place)


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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Re: [NTG-context] treat framed and externalfigure as characters

2006-05-09 Thread Hans Hagen 
� wrote:

 I understand and accept your arguments. Even for me, it's no more problem
 to add here and there a \dontleavehmode, since I know it now. But for a
 beginner and a user without ambition to become a ConTeXt expert, the actual
 behaviour is annoying. He just sees a line break, where he does not expect
 it. There is a fundamental difference between
  bla \framed{bla} bla
 and
  \framed{bla} bla bla
 that is not understandable.
   
this is the case for many more things and a tex speciality which takes 
while to get accustomed to; a similar case is

{\bf whatever} rest of par

best put a \dontleavevmode or \strut in front if you want indentation 
and related features to work
 Perhaps one day, I would like to convert some of my colleagues from M$-Word
 to ConTeXt, but if I have to teach them about things like \dontleavehmode
 there is no need for further efforts. So, such a switch would be very
 welcome (I would put it into cont-sys.tex)!
   
but then it would break other things and your collegues would scream about that 

btw, there is \inframed for inline usage, or one could define a symbol 

Hans 

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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