Re: [cayugabirds-l] Western Grebe & paler Western-type Grebe - Cayuga County
Excellent photos. It does seem a conundrum. I do note that in the large Sibley Guide (p.29), he says in regard to the Western and Clark's Grebes, Intermediate birds, seen regularly, especially during winter, are unidentifiable. Some may be hybrids". Don Timmons Newfield ---Original Message--- From: Tom Johnson Date: 2/9/2012 1:41:38 PM To: cayugabirds; nysbirds Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Western Grebe & paler Western-type Grebe - Cayuga County Hi again, After sharing photos and discussing the two grebes that Jay and I saw at Twin Oaks Campground north of Union Springs, Cayuga County yesterday, several knowledgeable people have suggested that the paler bird is actually a hybrid Western x Clark's Grebe instead of a pure Western Grebe. This pale bird is either the same or very similar to the bird that has been hanging out on Cayuga Lake between Myers and Ithaca in Tompkins County. Honestly, I don't know enough about the limit of variation in Western Grebe or proven hybrids to feel confident either way, but the possibility of a hybrid should be seriously considered. It seems clear to me that the bird isn't a pure Clark's Grebe - the flanks seem dark for that, and perhaps more importantly, the bill is too dusky with dark on the top and bottom. However, the bird in question is obviously paler overall (flanks and face) with a slightly brighter bill than the "obvious", full-black-capped/ -faced, dull-billed Western present. I've added more photos to my Flickr page, online here: flickr.com/bonxie88 I'm sure there will be some more discussion on this - if anyone journeys up the lake to check the birds out, I'd recommend trying to get an audio recording of both birds. Jay and I heard the dark one calling, and it sounded like a normal Western Grebe; however, we didn't hear any vocalizations out of the pale grebe. Thanks - and good luck! Tom -- Tom Johnson Hummelstown, PA t...@cornell.edu -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives: The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --<>
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Western Grebe paler Western-type Grebe - Cayuga County
Excellent photos. It does seem a conundrum. I do note that in the large Sibley Guide (p.29), he says in regard to the Western and Clark's Grebes, Intermediate birds, seen regularly, especially during winter, are unidentifiable. Some may be hybrids. Don Timmons Newfield ---Original Message--- From: Tom Johnson Date: 2/9/2012 1:41:38 PM To: cayugabirds; nysbirds Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Western Grebe paler Western-type Grebe - Cayuga County Hi again, After sharing photos and discussing the two grebes that Jay and I saw at Twin Oaks Campground north of Union Springs, Cayuga County yesterday, several knowledgeable people have suggested that the paler bird is actually a hybrid Western x Clark's Grebe instead of a pure Western Grebe. This pale bird is either the same or very similar to the bird that has been hanging out on Cayuga Lake between Myers and Ithaca in Tompkins County. Honestly, I don't know enough about the limit of variation in Western Grebe or proven hybrids to feel confident either way, but the possibility of a hybrid should be seriously considered. It seems clear to me that the bird isn't a pure Clark's Grebe - the flanks seem dark for that, and perhaps more importantly, the bill is too dusky with dark on the top and bottom. However, the bird in question is obviously paler overall (flanks and face) with a slightly brighter bill than the obvious, full-black-capped/ -faced, dull-billed Western present. I've added more photos to my Flickr page, online here: flickr.com/bonxie88 I'm sure there will be some more discussion on this - if anyone journeys up the lake to check the birds out, I'd recommend trying to get an audio recording of both birds. Jay and I heard the dark one calling, and it sounded like a normal Western Grebe; however, we didn't hear any vocalizations out of the pale grebe. Thanks - and good luck! Tom -- Tom Johnson Hummelstown, PA t...@cornell.edu -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives: The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --faint_grain.jpg
