Re: [OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk

[Olaf Marzocchi]

I would like to remind all those interested in netatalk that a future switch to 
smb will probably cause loss of finder labels and similar metadata, plus some 
mismatch in uncommon characters like question marks and so on.
At least, both happened to me and I was using a very basic configuration.

It is possible to convert the metadata manually, but I forgot the name of the 
tool able to do that. I used an apple script I wrote for that, but there are 
better tools. I can provide it if requested.

After my experience I'm of the opinion that, as long as no client uses OS X < 
10.9 and as long as an OmniOS with built-in kernel smb2 is available, smb2 
should be the choice.
I never felt the need of Samba on OmniOS, since I use no AD credentials.

If the chosen OmniOS has only cifs support, then netatalk will bring a visible 
performance benefit (but require later a conversion of metadata).

Olaf



Il 16 febbraio 2017 12:29:37 CET, Davide Poletto  ha 
scritto:
>I recall I've seen this:
>
>http://www.napp-it.com/doc/downloads/performance_smb2.pdf
>
>It would be an interesting document to read (it's not focused
>specifically
>on Netatalk but it explores some performance patterns using Mac OS X
>clients with NFS/SMB v1/v2 on OmniOS server side).
>
>On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Fábio Rabelo
>
>wrote:
>
>> Hi to all
>>
>> There are someone with experience in running SMB and/or Netatalk over
>> OmniOS ?
>>
>> Works OK ?
>>
>> Some caveats to avoid ?
>>
>> The possible scenario would be a server to hold Audio and Video files
>> in a Video/Audio editing facility, with 10 GB network in/out, and 12
>8
>> TB hard disks in Raid Z2, 2 256GB SSD to ZIL, no ARC, 128 GB RAM .
>>
>> Thanks in advance ...
>>
>>
>> Fábio Rabelo
>> ___
>> OmniOS-discuss mailing list
>> OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com
>> http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
>>
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk

[Dan Vatca]

Hi,

This issue is caused indeed by the calls to getcwd that are very slow on 
illumos/solaris. A workaround that solves the performance problems is to avoid 
those calls entirely by setting “follow symlinks = yes”.
However, this will allow server-side symlinks to be followed outside the 
directory.
If permissions are setup correctly, it should not be that big of a security 
issue.

Dan.

On 16/02/2017, 13:47, "OmniOS-discuss on behalf of Chris Ferebee" 
 wrote:

Hi Fabio,

Let me tell you about my personal hell. In 2014 I tried to set up a big 
file server for a motion graphics client using netatalk on SmartOS.

To put it succinctly, it was a disaster. The Finder took forever to open 
windows on the server, etc.

With help from people who actually know what they’re doing (unlike me) I 
reached the following conclusions.

The Finder, starting around 10.7 or 10.8, behaves very poorly with shares 
under certain circumstances. If any folder window is open in the Finder, it 
will continually thrash through the subdirectories doing

fsgetpath()
getxattr()
getattrlist()

on everything. I think this is a Finder bug, and it seems to be present in 
macOS Sierra as well.

Samba replies to these queries from a cache, but netatalk performs calls to 
getcwd() [get current working directory] for every call to fsgetpath. This call 
is very expensive on Solaris - the OS doesn’t cache it because there is no 
expectation that it will be called frequently.

As a result, the Finder on a single Mac client, sitting idle with one 
folder window open to the netatalk share, would peg a core on the server. It 
would take tens of seconds, sometimes minutes, to display the contents of 
folders. (I’m sure it didn’t help that we had over 100 million files on the 
share.)

Take a look at this thread, where we discuss the issues.



At some point Ralph Böhme seemed to suggest that this Finder behaviour 
could be avoided if netatalk were built with full Spotlight API support, but 
that was too experimental at the time for me to attempt in production. That may 
be why this issue doesn’t seem to affect AFP connections to Apple’s afp server.

In the end, we switched from netatalk to HELIOS EtherShare, which is $$$, 
but has been rock-solid and blazingly fast.

Note that this problem seems to affect netatalk on Linux to a lesser 
degree, perhaps because getcwd() is much faster on Linux than on Solaris.

Best,
Chris


> Am 15.02.2017 um 18:16 schrieb Fábio Rabelo :
> 
> Hi to all
> 
> There are someone with experience in running SMB and/or Netatalk over 
OmniOS ?
> 
> Works OK ?
> 
> Some caveats to avoid ?
> 
> The possible scenario would be a server to hold Audio and Video files
> in a Video/Audio editing facility, with 10 GB network in/out, and 12 8
> TB hard disks in Raid Z2, 2 256GB SSD to ZIL, no ARC, 128 GB RAM .
> 
> Thanks in advance ...
> 
> 
> Fábio Rabelo
> ___
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk

[Chris Ferebee]

Hi Fabio,

Let me tell you about my personal hell. In 2014 I tried to set up a big file 
server for a motion graphics client using netatalk on SmartOS.

To put it succinctly, it was a disaster. The Finder took forever to open 
windows on the server, etc.

With help from people who actually know what they’re doing (unlike me) I 
reached the following conclusions.

The Finder, starting around 10.7 or 10.8, behaves very poorly with shares under 
certain circumstances. If any folder window is open in the Finder, it will 
continually thrash through the subdirectories doing

fsgetpath()
getxattr()
getattrlist()

on everything. I think this is a Finder bug, and it seems to be present in 
macOS Sierra as well.

Samba replies to these queries from a cache, but netatalk performs calls to 
getcwd() [get current working directory] for every call to fsgetpath. This call 
is very expensive on Solaris - the OS doesn’t cache it because there is no 
expectation that it will be called frequently.

As a result, the Finder on a single Mac client, sitting idle with one folder 
window open to the netatalk share, would peg a core on the server. It would 
take tens of seconds, sometimes minutes, to display the contents of folders. 
(I’m sure it didn’t help that we had over 100 million files on the share.)

Take a look at this thread, where we discuss the issues.



At some point Ralph Böhme seemed to suggest that this Finder behaviour could be 
avoided if netatalk were built with full Spotlight API support, but that was 
too experimental at the time for me to attempt in production. That may be why 
this issue doesn’t seem to affect AFP connections to Apple’s afp server.

In the end, we switched from netatalk to HELIOS EtherShare, which is $$$, but 
has been rock-solid and blazingly fast.

Note that this problem seems to affect netatalk on Linux to a lesser degree, 
perhaps because getcwd() is much faster on Linux than on Solaris.

Best,
Chris


> Am 15.02.2017 um 18:16 schrieb Fábio Rabelo :
> 
> Hi to all
> 
> There are someone with experience in running SMB and/or Netatalk over OmniOS ?
> 
> Works OK ?
> 
> Some caveats to avoid ?
> 
> The possible scenario would be a server to hold Audio and Video files
> in a Video/Audio editing facility, with 10 GB network in/out, and 12 8
> TB hard disks in Raid Z2, 2 256GB SSD to ZIL, no ARC, 128 GB RAM .
> 
> Thanks in advance ...
> 
> 
> Fábio Rabelo
> ___
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> OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com
> http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss

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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk

[Davide Poletto]

I recall I've seen this:

http://www.napp-it.com/doc/downloads/performance_smb2.pdf

It would be an interesting document to read (it's not focused specifically
on Netatalk but it explores some performance patterns using Mac OS X
clients with NFS/SMB v1/v2 on OmniOS server side).

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Fábio Rabelo 
wrote:

> Hi to all
>
> There are someone with experience in running SMB and/or Netatalk over
> OmniOS ?
>
> Works OK ?
>
> Some caveats to avoid ?
>
> The possible scenario would be a server to hold Audio and Video files
> in a Video/Audio editing facility, with 10 GB network in/out, and 12 8
> TB hard disks in Raid Z2, 2 256GB SSD to ZIL, no ARC, 128 GB RAM .
>
> Thanks in advance ...
>
>
> Fábio Rabelo
> ___
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> OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com
> http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
>
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk

[Stephan Budach]

- Ursprüngliche Mail -
Von: "Adam Feigin" <fei...@iis.ee.ethz.ch>
An: omnios-discuss@lists.omniti.com
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2017 09:47:50
Betreff: [OmniOS-discuss]  SMB and Netatalk



On 15/02/17 18:16, omnios-discuss-requ...@lists.omniti.com wrote:
> From: F?bio Rabelo <fa...@fabiorabelo.wiki.br>
> To: omnios-discuss <omnios-discuss@lists.omniti.com>
> Subject: [OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk
> Message-ID:
>   <caeeky64bhsojnq1n+ct7gyj5kgakagalzjpabeycbwjq+e7...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Hi to all
> 
> There are someone with experience in running SMB and/or Netatalk over OmniOS ?
> 
> Works OK ?
> 
> Some caveats to avoid ?
> 
> The possible scenario would be a server to hold Audio and Video files
> in a Video/Audio editing facility, with 10 GB network in/out, and 12 8
> TB hard disks in Raid Z2, 2 256GB SSD to ZIL, no ARC, 128 GB RAM .
> 

netatalk works like a charm, as does cifs. I'll just assume that you're
wanting to serve Macs; despite all that Apple is telling the world, my
experience is that AFP "works" better. I've experienced no end of
bizzare and differing problems using SMB/CIFS with OSX (not just on
OmniOS!). Each OSX version has various quirks with SMB, whereas AFP
being the "native" OSX file protocol just works plug an play, no fooling
around, across differing OSX versions.

You can either pull it in from the uulm.mawi omnios package repository,
or build it yourself (but it does have some dependencies, so you're
probably better off installing the from the repository).

/AWF

I guess anyone who looks into SMB for Macs, should also look at vfs_fruit for 
Samba. I haven't had the chance to set this up myself, but from what I have 
read, this is the way to go…

…on the other hand, I am still running our big servers using Netatalk 2.3.x and 
this hasn't failed me for years. ;)

Cheers,
Stephan


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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[OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk

[Adam Feigin]

On 15/02/17 18:16, omnios-discuss-requ...@lists.omniti.com wrote:
> From: F?bio Rabelo <fa...@fabiorabelo.wiki.br>
> To: omnios-discuss <omnios-discuss@lists.omniti.com>
> Subject: [OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk
> Message-ID:
>   <caeeky64bhsojnq1n+ct7gyj5kgakagalzjpabeycbwjq+e7...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Hi to all
> 
> There are someone with experience in running SMB and/or Netatalk over OmniOS ?
> 
> Works OK ?
> 
> Some caveats to avoid ?
> 
> The possible scenario would be a server to hold Audio and Video files
> in a Video/Audio editing facility, with 10 GB network in/out, and 12 8
> TB hard disks in Raid Z2, 2 256GB SSD to ZIL, no ARC, 128 GB RAM .
> 

netatalk works like a charm, as does cifs. I'll just assume that you're
wanting to serve Macs; despite all that Apple is telling the world, my
experience is that AFP "works" better. I've experienced no end of
bizzare and differing problems using SMB/CIFS with OSX (not just on
OmniOS!). Each OSX version has various quirks with SMB, whereas AFP
being the "native" OSX file protocol just works plug an play, no fooling
around, across differing OSX versions.

You can either pull it in from the uulm.mawi omnios package repository,
or build it yourself (but it does have some dependencies, so you're
probably better off installing the from the repository).

/AWF
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk

[Linda Kateley]

Fabio,

I design systems all the time for video editing. There are several 
questions that need to be answered..what will be average file size? 4k? 
8k video? How many 10gbe? how many editors accessing simultaneously? 
What software are you running?


I usually size ram per user if they are working with different files, or 
size ram to average file.. I run procs up higher for multiple 10gbe. 
Need to be a little careful with 10gbe drivers in omni.


For zil, you only need/use zil if you are running nfs or iscsi. Use the 
ssd for arc if you are running smb or netatalk.


Been seeing several configs be successful with raidz2 and editing, but i 
would prefer mirrors. I would usually like to see 2 boxes one for work 
and one for archive.


I hate to do marketing... but if you would like to contact me offlist, i 
can help you with design. That is what my company does :)


linda


On 2/15/17 11:16 AM, Fábio Rabelo wrote:

Hi to all

There are someone with experience in running SMB and/or Netatalk over OmniOS ?

Works OK ?

Some caveats to avoid ?

The possible scenario would be a server to hold Audio and Video files
in a Video/Audio editing facility, with 10 GB network in/out, and 12 8
TB hard disks in Raid Z2, 2 256GB SSD to ZIL, no ARC, 128 GB RAM .

Thanks in advance ...


Fábio Rabelo
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk

[Thomas Wagner]

I thought Apple was giving up on netatalk, but I might be wrong.
The netatalk maintainers should know more detail.
Last version update to 3.1.10 is from 20160912

About SMB, the more recent SMB implemtations with the updated 
SMB protocol should be and interesting choice compared to netatalk. 

I think samba 4.4 supports SMB2 and early versions of SMB3, but 
you should verify if samba or kernel-SMB from illumos give the
expercted results.

I can't tell right now what the exact kernel SMB protocol version
in Illumos is currently supporting.

One scenario could be to run the kernel SMB in the fileserver 
global zone and one samba instance in a non-global-zone to make 
up login/domain service.

What type of SSD for ZIL do you intend to use? Will it be mirrored?
It is a critical component that even gets small writes of data, 
depending on the type of transaction which is performed.
(Details are up to the ZFS experts).

I have a compile job running right now and see if I can make a package
with netatalk 3.1.10 for OmniOS. Samba 4.4.9 is alread in the repo
on http://sfe.opencsw.org.

Regards,
Thomas

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 03:16:25PM -0200, F??bio Rabelo wrote:
> Hi to all
> 
> There are someone with experience in running SMB and/or Netatalk over OmniOS ?
> 
> Works OK ?
> 
> Some caveats to avoid ?
> 
> The possible scenario would be a server to hold Audio and Video files
> in a Video/Audio editing facility, with 10 GB network in/out, and 12 8
> TB hard disks in Raid Z2, 2 256GB SSD to ZIL, no ARC, 128 GB RAM .
> 
> Thanks in advance ...
> 
> 
> Fábio Rabelo
> ___
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> 

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[OmniOS-discuss] SMB and Netatalk

[Fábio Rabelo]

Hi to all

There are someone with experience in running SMB and/or Netatalk over OmniOS ?

Works OK ?

Some caveats to avoid ?

The possible scenario would be a server to hold Audio and Video files
in a Video/Audio editing facility, with 10 GB network in/out, and 12 8
TB hard disks in Raid Z2, 2 256GB SSD to ZIL, no ARC, 128 GB RAM .

Thanks in advance ...


Fábio Rabelo
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