Re: [Winona] Old Middle School
Yes, An architectural assessment of the auditorium will have to be made and money raised to fund its restoration. Just as the rest of the rest of the middle school is in need of repairs, but will be fixed up and converted into housing; I would think that the auditorium is not beyond being repaired and restored. I don't think anyone was thinking that the auditorium could be used without fixing it up. -Steve Kranz - Original Message - From: Jim Sjoberg To: Democracy Cc: Jim Sjoberg Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:08 AM Subject: [Winona] Old Middle School Forgive me if I am wrong, but wasn't the Old Middle School deemed to be unsafe? I know there was a question of Asbestos in the building, and is it not true that the Auditorium in the building was leaking rain thru the roof, and Chunks of the building were falling in? Or was that just the Gymnasium and the Lunch Room? Just Asking.. Jim Sjoberg
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School
[Winona Online Democracy] - Original Message - From: Jim Sjoberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Forgive me if I am wrong, but wasn't the Old Middle School deemed to be unsafe? [snip qualifying comment] The compelling agenda for a new school was to start fresh with an all new facility. A hidden motive was to move the school out of the city proper, away from the citizenry, even if it meant placing it in a remote industrial zone with access problems for almost everyone, and special dangers for those students who wished to walk or bicycle to school. This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School
These building are unsafe! That was the spin used for moving out of there. Now, I guess the building has healed itself. The auditorium was one of the areas deemed so unsafe they even stopped having programs in there. Carol
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School
Yes, An architectural assessment of the auditorium will have to be made and money raised to fund its restoration. Just as the rest of the rest of the middle school is in need of repairs, but will be fixed up and converted into housing; I would think that the auditorium is not beyond being repaired and restored. I don't think anyone was thinking that the auditorium could be used without fixing it up. -Steve Kranz - Original Message - From: Carol Borzyskowski To: Jim Sjoberg ; Democracy Cc: Jim Sjoberg Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [Winona] Old Middle School These building are unsafe! That was the spin used for moving out of there. Now, I guess the building has healed itself. The auditorium was one of the areas deemed so unsafe they even stopped having programs in there. Carol
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School
[Winona Online Democracy] From: Joliene Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] And, just which 15-30 acres of land would you have cleared IN TOWN to build the new school on Mr. Stafford. There were NO hidden motives or hidden agendas for the middle school situation. Hidden Agenda was a poor choice of words, and I regret using them. Let me try to make up for that and say that moving the children out of the physical community is what bothered me the most. I fear that isolating them that way was one of the very least considered outcomes of the decision. In my humble opinion, it shows a remarkable insensitivity of the consensus. The second issue, the safety of the children who choose to bicycle or walk to school is a grave issue. If the consensus were _truly_ serious about the matter, then appropriate (excellent) pathways, crossings and bridges would have been built right along with the school. Defending the location now is not the issue, and wasting energy with hindsight justifications is a red herring which might distract the concsensus from the fact that there is an ongoing responsibility to consider the unfolding consequences of that decision. It's not enough to say that you did the best you could. You have to commit to doing the best you can. This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School
[Winona Online Democracy] At 07:39 AM 6/26/01 -0500, John wrote: The compelling agenda for a new school was to start fresh with an all new facility. A hidden motive was to move the school out of the city proper, away from the citizenry, even if it meant placing it in a remote industrial zone with access problems for almost everyone, and special dangers for those students who wished to walk or bicycle to school. Yup, John, you caught us. It was all lies, deceit, and trickery with no concern for the welfare of either the kids or the Winona Community, wasn't it? That ol' middle school was just a GREAT building for educating our kids, in a great location to boot! Just a few coats of paint and the thing would have been good as new. We made up those stories of falling chimneys, overheating electrical systems, decaying walls and ceilings, etc. Why, it' GOOD to make our kids breath asbestos and chlorine, then drink lead in their water - toughens them up - but hey, they got fresh air when we had to bus them to Lake Park for P.E.! Heat in the winter - that's for sissies! All those cars whizzing by on Broadway as kids tried to cross it or got on and off the school buses taught 'em safety real fast, right? Hey, a fire in that old auditorium with so few exits would have been a great P.E. exercise, with all those kids crawling over each other to get out. I apologize for the sarcasm, but I guess I have to feel a bit sorry for people like John who were (and apparently still are) in denial about the condition of that building for education. Could it have been repaired? Sure, anything can be repaired. Would that have been a good value for the money spent? No, not even close. I am indeed very glad to hear that there are groups who wish to rehabilitate and reuse portions of it, but I can only hope they are going into it with their eyes open. It is going to cost big bucks for MetroPlains to turn it into apartments, in many places a gut and rebuild project. Similarly, rehabbing the auditorium will not come cheaply. Many communities have done this with old buildings and ended up with terrific facilities, and I hope Winona can do the same. A final point of perspective. I still talk occasionally to a very nice old gentleman who can't understand why that new school had to be built so far away from the main part of the city. However, he is talking about Winona Senior High, not the middle school. At the time it was built, apparently, many people felt it was too far away from where people lived, out on the edges. The city changed, of course, as it will continue to do. A few years from now, with the growth occuring north and east of it I'll bet you dollars to donuts the new WMS will be viewed the same way WSHS is now. Ed Thompson ** Ed's witty saying for this week comes from Douglas Adams: There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers exactly what the Universe if for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another which states that this has already happened. ** This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School
[Winona Online Democracy] From: Ed Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yup, John, you caught us. It was all lies, deceit, and trickery with no concern for the welfare of either the kids or the Winona Community, wasn't it? [rant omitted] I said nothing whatsoever about the old schools condition. I said it was clearly desirable that a new school be built. You cannot excuse your alleged sarcasm. It is innuendo. Plain and simple, a kind of dishonesty. [...] A few years from now, with the growth occuring north and east of it I'll bet you dollars to donuts the new WMS will be viewed the same way WSHS is now. That might be perfectly true - after they rezone the area, raise taxes and otherwise malign a reasonable city plan. This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School Effort
[Winona Online Democracy] - Original Message - From: Willard G Kitchen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip excellent article] I'd like to see such a physical facility exist if it also including mentoring between age groups, and I'd like to embrace not only the visual arts, but writing, music. The mentoring I have in mind works in both directions. I would like to believe that a program could exist which would reach beyond the clinical kind of teaching of creative arts which appear necessary to public school programs. By that I mean to obviate correct responses for the sake of grades, to adventure out into genuine exploration, obviate the penchant for 'outcome based' metrics, and ease peer-pressure. In a word, be Creative! Finally, let's not forget that art need not be that media which is already entrenched in history - include the new technology, too. This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Winona] Old Middle School Effort
[Winona Online Democracy] I'm going to venture out on this limb here. Maybe it's not a limb, but a very strong branch that will carry me right from the corner of 5th and Main to the corner of 5th and Washington with a lot of support. The Senior Friendship Center in order to be a viable part of this community must gain more space. We are programming for over 50 years of ages in this City owned Park Recreation program. Think about the different areas of interest for 50 years of ages and experiences! This building is not conducive to that type of program planning. People are interested in creative opportunities, we have a wonderful watercolors class experience; writing classes, there are 2 classes of people writing their life stories; we have a choral group that currently is working on Old English pronunciations and diction with a very capable director; we have dabbled in theatre, but want more; we are in need of an exercise area for our seniorcise aerobics, tai chi, chair exercises and a much needed exercise room complete with exercise equipment we would like to try yoga. We are constantly scrambling to get swim time at either WSU or the new WMS, but seem to only gain access between the hours of 6:30 am - 8:00 am. Our computer lab is very limited in space and with growing technology, I only foresee more needs in this area such as teleconferencing, etc. Speaking of mentoring, we need to discontinue segregating the ages. Let's plan a building for all to enjoy. Let's not piecemeal, but actually long term plan for the community of Winona. Not young, mid or old, but all of us as a collective unit of human beings living in the same community. Malia Storovich, Director Winona Senior Friendship Center This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School Auditorium Effort
[Winona Online Democracy] Correct me if i'm wrong here, but wasn't one of the reasons for building a new middle school due to the failing infrastructure of the old builiding? Including, if memory serves, a need at one point to shut up an auditorium due to falling celling tiles? A community theature is an excellent idea, i'm just a little leary about using that builiding for it. Dean Lanz [now residing in St. Cloud, but still reading online] This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School Auditorium Effort
[Winona Online Democracy] Dean, I don't think there could have been falling ceiling tiles in the auditorium -- it has a plaster ceiling that is in fairly decent shape (except for one area that has suffered some water damage). I believe there might be a small area of missing plaster in the lobby of theatre so perhaps that is what you are thinking of. Utilizing the auditorium as a professional/community arts space will certainly require capital expenses to repair/restore the building and bring it up to code. I don't think anyone means to imply that the building could be used without making repairs. The idea would be to restore the historical character of the theatre and improve the infrastructure (lighting, sound, air handling, etc.) to make it a modern facility. -Steve Kranz - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [Winona] Old Middle School Auditorium Effort [Winona Online Democracy] Correct me if i'm wrong here, but wasn't one of the reasons for building a new middle school due to the failing infrastructure of the old builiding? Including, if memory serves, a need at one point to shut up an auditorium due to falling celling tiles? A community theature is an excellent idea, i'm just a little leary about using that builiding for it. Dean Lanz [now residing in St. Cloud, but still reading online] This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Winona] Old Middle School
[Winona Online Democracy] Why are some of the recent messages dated January of 2002? steve schild = Original Message From "Duane M. Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [Winona Online Democracy] I would not think that if the county begins the eminent domain process there it would engender much animosity. They are telling everyone that it is a way of preventing being thrown out of the old junior high building. If they do not do that, they must immediately plan to house the Courts somewhere else. The lease is only for 6 months. Co-operation would seem to dictate that the lease should be extended. They should develop a win-win solution for the next year. I think that the developer could wait that long since it does not have financing yet in any case. The County needs to move on a plan to rehab the courthouse regardless of the temporary measures it takes over the next 2 or 3 years. The County discussions seem to be what can the county do to make sure that it has the temporary space it needs and still go on with rehab planning. It is easier for the county to negotiate from a position of being able to solve its problems than being under the gun of not knowing whether it has to move the entire court system to another location in 2 months. The School Board wants to keep all its options open. It wants to continue to lease to the county if the developer can't act. The developer wants to be able to move if it gets financing, but does not want to commit until it has all the financing in place. These are 3 divergent views. Some of them have to make a decision. It seems to me that the County has an opportunity to play the trump card forcing all others to do something. Pax vobiscum, - Original Message - From: Glen Diane Schumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Winona Online Democracy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 6:25 PM Subject: RE: [Winona] Old Middle School -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Steve Kranz Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 9:07 AM To: Winona Online Democracy Subject: Re: [Winona] Old Middle School 1. Do you think the county's considering the use of eminent domain against another local governmental body has any implications beyond the current issue? My Comment: Such a threat is not likely to engender cooperation, how it all turns out is open to wild speculation. 2. What do you think the county should do to solve its space/courthouse problem? My Comment: Whatever is the most cost effective long term solution. 3. Are you concerned with what happens to the old middle school (how it is developed) or do you think the school board should just pass the building on to someone else (the county or another developer) and let the development discussion begin again? My Comment: the school board should attempt to get the best financial result for itself that it can. 4. Do you think Winona has an affordable housing problem that needs to be addressed and, if so, who should address it? My Comment: I don't know, but with houses coming on the market in the $40- $50,000 range all the time I am skeptical. IF there is one, one way to help would be to find a way to encourage development of property for factory built homes which can be had for $20,000 and up. Glen Schumann Winona, MN [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] H: 507.454.3056 W: 507.453.3567 W FAX: 507.454.1440 Visit my Family Home Page: http://www.hbci.com/~gschuman/home.htm This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Winona] Old Middle School
[Winona Online Democracy] Randy, The issue in terms of developing the site, from what I understand, would be one of timing. Metro Plains is trying to secure funding from a variety of sources. Apparently, when this type of funding is provided they like to see the property developed fairly quickly (perhaps as a condition of providing the funding). The County has expressed an interest in working with Metro Plains to allow their development to proceed, but the County may have to stay in the building longer than Metro Plains originally planned on. I would think that the amount of flexibility that Metro Plains could provide would be based on the flexibility of their funding sources (of which they likely have little control). I'm not sure how much tax revenue would be generated by the development. -Steve Kranz - Original Message - From: "schenkat" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:10 PM Subject: [Winona] Old Middle School [Winona Online Democracy] Steve - thanks for posing the question- after reading the articles I only have more questions. Can you please explain more--- . There's a chance it could have an impact on Metro Plains ability to develop the site into affordable housing units that are much needed in our community. What are the chances? How flexible will Metro Plains be? What's the length of time the County might anticipate occupying the old middle school site? What would be the tax revenue the city might garner if both buildings were apartments? Would the county pick up the plan to work with Metro Plains? Randy Schenkat 1419 Conrad Dr. Winona,MN 55987 507-452-7168 This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Winona] Old Middle School
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Steve Kranz Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:31 AM To: Winona Online Democracy Subject: [Winona] Old Middle School So do you think the school district should take the "financially safer" course and get the old middle school off its books as soon as possible or do you think the school district should take the course that would most likely ensure the property will be developed into something the community needs? The school district is not responsible to "ensure the property will be developed into something the community needs". ISD 861 should do what makes the most financial sense to the district. What happens after that is not their responsibility. Glen Schumann Winona, MN [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] H: 507.454.3056 W: 507.453.3567 W FAX: 507.454.1440 Visit my Family Home Page: http://www.hbci.com/~gschuman/home.htm BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Schumann;Glen FN:Glen Schumann ORG:Winona Daily News;Advertising TITLE:Account Representative TEL;WORK;VOICE:(507) 453-3567 TEL;HOME;VOICE:(507) 454-3056 TEL;WORK;FAX:(507) 454-1440 ADR;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;601 Franklin Street=0D=0AP.O. Box 5147;Winona;MN;55987 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:601 Franklin Street=0D=0AP.O. Box 5147=0D=0AWinona, MN 55987 ADR;HOME:;;3774 West 7th Street;Gopodview;MN;55987-1777 LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:3774 West 7th Street=0D=0AGopodview, MN 55987-1777 URL:http://www.luminet.net/~gschuman/home.htm URL:http://www.winonadailynews.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] EMAIL;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20001013T115605Z END:VCARD
Re: [Winona] Old middle school
Joliene, You make some good points. According to what Metro Plaines said at the last board meeting, their current timeline is to obtain funding and begin construction by the end of this year. Their prospects are supposed to be fairly good for obtaining funding due to some changes that have occurred since last year (including the fact that they barely missed the cutoff to receive funding and the funding availability from the state has increased by quite a bit this year). One thing to consider is thatif the Metro Plaines proposal does not go through, there isprobably no way we would be able to put the property out to bid and get a builder to begin construction any sooner than that. It would, most likely be much later. As far as room for the public at Monday's meeting, I don't know where in the Lincon Building the meeting is scheduled to occur, but I would say that since it is a public meeting I'm sure we'll make room for the public regardless of the location. -Steve Kranz - Original Message - From: Joliene Olson To: onlinedemocracy Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 3:11 PM Subject: [Winona] Old middle school On first blush, I think the school district should sell the building to the county. Ithought that itwould be awin win for everyone and was surprised to see in today's paper that Metro wasn't excited. First of all I DON'T think the district should extend the option for Metro Plains. Not because they aren't going to do the right thing and do a good job but because of their time lines for funding. What is to guarantee they will get funds next year? Withthe county buying the building, the school district is rid of it, Metro buys some time to get their funding in place and the county has a property that after more study of the architect options, they might not want to even sell. The location is quite nice for development of the County Govt complex. But, they could sell it and that would be decided before Metro even goes after the money the next time. In addition to the points listed above, the City also has time to look into opportunities to use part of the building for Library expansion, and relocation of the Senior Center. With the buying of a little time for Metro, the City and the County, a real plan could come into being. With the Wells Fargo building, many county services could be relocated (perhaps even permanently), work could proceed on the old court house toput the Court system back in there and then the rest of thecountygovt agencies could even go into an addition to the annex or rehab of one building of the middle school complex and tear one building down and build a parking ramp for use by govt, seniors, library users etc. Steve, is there going to be room at the Lincoln building for public citizens to attend the meeting on Monday at 10:30? If the meeting was in the gym there would be but if it is in the conference room up stairs, it won't. Joliene Olson507-454-1236[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Winona] Old middle school
[Winona Online Democracy] I have one question about the idea that the county might buy the old middle school campus...what if they don't intend to sell it to metro plains...it is two city blocks one block south of the courthouse...it is their campus... I was hoping that the metro-plains development would help alleviate our housing shortage...so I am not sure that I like that plan...but if it would keep the county in the courthouse I would be glad for it Bob Sebo This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
