Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
On 28 March 2012 02:38, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Many great thoughts here. In addition to supporting the open source movement, perhaps we could market participation as a way to learn and develop skills. Maybe a certificate for AOO development professional? Work out the key skills needed to contribute to development and write a set of indicative assessment criteria. Get a mentor to verify the candidate's evidence that they can meet the criteria. If there was interest in it we have the facilities to support it including secure on-line testing facilities and a Drupal system for managing coursework evidence which we would do as a free contribution to the project. We'd just need help defining the criteria from the most experienced developers. As a newbie, it appears that much our message is around what we need - which is essential to understand, however we may want to focus on why someone may want to join and help them realize their goals. For example, if someone is looking to demonstrate their skills and develop portfolio work products, then AOO offers a sandbox of opportunity. And a potential certification of skills. Some thoughts. Regards, Kevin On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On 2012-03-19, at 08:41 , Rob Weir wrote: Any ideas and the best ways how we can improve in this area after AOO 3.4 releases? Lots, and these would complement the rather good ideas already proposed. What we did at OOo actually worked--to attract developers and contributors of all sorts. What worked against us I do not think I need spell out, but the cussedness of the code was not really the determining factor. What really would help, besides giving would-bes a clean entry, is to have mentors, more or less do-able tasks that are identified as such. (We tried getting to this many times, and I strongly urged my erstwhile colleagues in this area for, uhm, years. Finally happened, and we got our to-dos but still not clearly identified according to level of difficulty. I can conceive of several here whose work would assist in the identification of tasks newbies could approach--and even post-newbies-and perhaps even in mentoring.) Also, what helps tremendously is what we are doing already: presenting a community that is open, friendly, and generally has a good attitude about what it is doing and where it is going. There are millions using OOo as their primary ODF implementation, and those mostly include those who have come to it via the national or sub-national government agency. I think it's about time that they are looking to AOO for the next step. I think the idea of a new contributor mentor is essential. This is true for coders, but also website, translation, documentation, test, UI, etc. What we have today is very much a swim or sink and drink from the fire hose approach. If someone is highly motivated, highly skilled and persistent, and is able to withstand the apparent chaos of the ooo-dev list, and penetrates the noise and asks questions, and repeats their questions until answered, then they might have a 50/50 chance of contributing. But let's be honest with ourselves -- there are a range of projects someone can contribute to. For would-be volunteers it is a buyer's market. If we make it too hard to get involved and contribute, technically, procedurally, socially, then we lose. But getting new volunteers on board requires effort. If someone is spending 100% of their time on their own features, then they have no time to help new volunteers become productive. One approach might be to define essential skills or essential knowledge that a new volunteer needs to master in order to become productive, and then a list of project members who are willing to help mentor new volunteers to acquire those skills. For example, for the website, the essential skills might be: 1) Assume HTML/CSS, we're not here to teach that 2) Help them get started with Markdown Text 3) Help them use the CMS to generate patches 4) Help them build website locally via the scripts 5) Understanding the larger site design, including recurring page elements, footers, etc. 6) In parallel with above, understanding Apache, roles, decision making, lazy consensus, CTR versus RTC, what Infra does versus what the project is responsible for, etc. 7) Help them establish a record of contributions to become a committer Anyone who has done the above can do 95% of what is needed to become a master of our website. It would be wonderful if we had something like that, a check list even a curriculum, for other common functions, as well as volunteers able to take on new project volunteers willing to help. This is all an investment in the future success of the
Document Freedom Day 2012 at Taipei
Dear all, We have a small party at Taipei at Café Philo tonight from 7:30pm. If you are in Taiwan currently, you are welcome to come and have fun with us. ^_*' The location is at: http://g.co/maps/6r28m . -- Best regards, imacat ^_*' ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc Woman's Voice News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/ Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/ Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/ Apache OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/ EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [RELEASE]: status update where we are and plan to move forward
On 3/28/12 10:11 AM, Risto Jääskeläinen wrote: Jürgen Schmidt [jogischm...@googlemail.com] kirjoitti: Hi Andrea, On 3/28/12 12:43 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Jürgen Schmidt wrote: A RC with en-US only is not really what our community is expecting. Exactly. UI We will include all languages where we have a 100% complete translation for the UI (excepting the translation for the test automation tool like for ru) HELP For help I would not really rely on a 100% translation and would accept 95%. These figures seem very high, we usually required 80% (both UI and Help), see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages thanks for this feedback, I wasn't aware of this numbers and it seems that my own expectations are higher than what we had before. I am open for that and we can reduce the numbers but doesn't it make sense to have 100% for UI and a lower number like the 80-85% for help. Help is not so important from my point view (who never used help and preferred google) but I think the UI should be complete. I am eager to learn from others and their experience and we should define together some boundaries for the future. And, now that https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118895 is fixed (thanks!) the Italian version, even if at 95%-99%, would definitely be ready to ship. We will reach 100% anyway (Paolo knows more but there are more than a dozen vounteers so it won't be a problem for us), but I'm speaking in general: excluding a language at 95%-99% wouldn't make sense. If there are concerns about problems in the translation process/data, then I'd prefer to distribute only builds for which we can identify a volunteer who takes care of testing that the translation is OK in the common use cases. Exactly that is what I have in mind we will only ship languages where volunteers have shown up so far. Juergen I think whole situation of meritocrazy is little bit wisted. The product will be what developers want not what users want. Ok if we ask user who want to use Finnish AOO would he prefer 100% English product over 80% Finnish product? I guess it depends how good his/hers English is. But if he don't understand English at all he prefer 80% translation over 0% translation (=100% English). So I think the old limits are good enought. My name is in every Finnish translation of Help po.files. I have send package of translations which is now in Pootle. I have signed and send my ICLA-agreement etc. Yet I am not able translate single line except do suggestions as nobody. I am sure we find a solution for this... If I would download whole updated package I will translate and send it back. Otherwise it is quite hard to keep 100% level of translations. there seems to be a general problem with accepting/declining suggestions. It doesn't work in my local copy as well and I haven't found the root cause for this so far. At the moment I am working on updating the help project. Any hint is welcome and appreciated Would it help if I provide you a zip file containing the po files that you can use an offline tool? Juergen
Re: [RELEASE] NOTICE and LICENSE file
Hi On 27.03.2012 16:54, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Hi Thx for the input so far. My work stopped, because of the ongoing discussion on legal-discuss. Greg Stein has started at legal-discuss a corresponding thread, named use of LICENSE and NOTICE. To be sure how to proceed I will send the following information to legal-discuss: List of links on apache.org with information regarding the content of the LICENSE file and the NOTICE file which I have found: [1] http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#notice [2] http://apache.org/legal/resolved.html#required-third-party-notices [3] http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#header-existingcopyright [4] http://www.apache.org/licenses/example-NOTICE.txt [5] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html#best-practice-license [6] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html#best-practice-notice My intepretation of this information and the information given in the thread at legal-discuss is the following: - Content of LICENSE file - general conclusion: -- Apache license at the top -- Licenses of all 3rd party components included in the specific package of a release inclusive a clear identification of the files to whose the license apply. - Content of NOTICE file - general conclusion: -- Standard copyright notice as given at [1] at the top -- Notices which are required by 3rd party component licenses which should be quite rare. - Further conclusions by orw for the Apache OpenOffice (incubating) project: -- We (AOO incubating) are planning to release a source package and binary packages. The binary package will include certain category-b licensed components. Thus, I assume that we need for each package an own LICENSE file and an own NOTICE file. -- The LICENSE file and the NOTICE file for the source package will cover the licenses of our source files. -- The LICENSE files and the NOTICE files for the binary package will cover additionally all licenses from the enabled category-b licensed components. If there are no objections I will continue my work regarding the above interpretations. There is already feedback on legal-discuss regarding my post. A short summary: - It seems that LICENSE file and NOTICE file of integrated Apache projects as 3rd party components need to be considered. E.g. Apache APR - It seems that notices of 3rd party components which are licensed under the Apache license need to be considered. E.g. serf - For our planned binary packages the bundled dictionary extensions need to be considered. If you are interested in further details you may have a look at http://markmail.org/thread/ze722s7ovb5pjdnn Thus, I will continue my work on this task: - First I will create a LICENSE file and a NOTICE file for the source package of our release. These will be the files trunk/main/LICENSE and trunk/main/NOTICE - Then I will create a LICENSE file and a NOTICE file for the binary packages of our release. I will name them trunk/main/LICENSE-binary-package and trunk/main/NOTICE-binary-package Best regards, Oliver.
Re: Rat scan vs SGA
Tada! Today there are no files left in the rat output that are not in the SGA. But there are still 1403 files marked as Unknown Licenses - or files without a license -Andre
Re: [BUILD][RELEASE]: propose a further snapshot to verify the latest fixes
Hello, cut I will start the next build now on Revision: 1303654 (Last Changed Rev: 1303653) Is it possible to build a new french language pack? The translation is complete for us. Thanks
Re: Feedback Requested: Proposed SourceForce Mirror of AOO 3.4
On 26 March 2012 17:22, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Mark Ramm m...@geek.net wrote: - SourceForge.net would be the “recommended default download” on the website. What would that look like? On what page do we make this branch? In most of our communications we will point the public to this URL: http://download.openoffice.org (That then redirects to http://www.openoffice.org/download/) The download link then provided to the user is matched to their platform and language, based on their request headers. My thoughts would be that we split based on user preference at this page, by showing two links. One for the sf.net download, and another for the apache mirror network based download. This sounds good to me. Any feedback from Apache Infra on this proposal? Or anyone else from the PPMC? (Silence is consent) I think we need an explicit OK from Joe on this one with his infra hat on. I'll touch base with him to make sure he has read this thread. Ross
Re: Feedback Requested: Proposed SourceForce Mirror of AOO 3.4
As the suggestion is basically another way of saying what I originally wrote, I am fine with it. To the extent that my opinion reflects the wishes of the infra team, I don't think anyone on the team will object. From: Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 7:59 AM Subject: Re: Feedback Requested: Proposed SourceForce Mirror of AOO 3.4 On 26 March 2012 17:22, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Mark Ramm m...@geek.net wrote: - SourceForge.net would be the “recommended default download” on the website. What would that look like? On what page do we make this branch? In most of our communications we will point the public to this URL: http://download.openoffice.org (That then redirects to http://www.openoffice.org/download/) The download link then provided to the user is matched to their platform and language, based on their request headers. My thoughts would be that we split based on user preference at this page, by showing two links. One for the sf.net download, and another for the apache mirror network based download. This sounds good to me. Any feedback from Apache Infra on this proposal? Or anyone else from the PPMC? (Silence is consent) I think we need an explicit OK from Joe on this one with his infra hat on. I'll touch base with him to make sure he has read this thread. Ross
[TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi 2012/3/27 Anton Meixome meix...@certima.net: What else we can do? Anton, instead of sending an email, i did this page[1] with some informations. Maybe can be more useful that send links of old threads. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Localization+Plan Folks, how we haven't a L10N plan/page, i felt free to write this page. If have errors (that i believe that really have), please, fell free to adjust. If the place isn't the best place, i accept suggestions too. Best, Claudio
Re: [RELEASE]: status update where we are and plan to move forward
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.comwrote: Hi Andrea, On 3/28/12 12:43 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Jürgen Schmidt wrote: A RC with en-US only is not really what our community is expecting. Exactly. UI We will include all languages where we have a 100% complete translation for the UI (excepting the translation for the test automation tool like for ru) HELP For help I would not really rely on a 100% translation and would accept 95%. These figures seem very high, we usually required 80% (both UI and Help), see http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/Languageshttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages thanks for this feedback, I wasn't aware of this numbers and it seems that my own expectations are higher than what we had before. I am open for that and we can reduce the numbers but doesn't it make sense to have 100% for UI and a lower number like the 80-85% for help. Help is not so important from my point view (who never used help and preferred google) but I think the UI should be complete. I am eager to learn from others and their experience and we should define together some boundaries for the future. Some things to consider: - What does the brand OpenOffice represent? What does it mean to the user? If we think it mean (among other things) quality and good localization support, then there are limits to what we can release and not harm the brand identity. For example, we cannot release a French translation that is only 10% done. It is all about meeting user expectations. Current OOo users have expectations. And people who have never used OpenOffice also have expectations. - Instead of holding back partial translations, one approach would be to label them in a special way, so we are setting accurate user expectations. For example, complete translations might be called gold, 90% translations silver and 80% bronze. Less than 80% might be beta releases only. Or some other similar naming schema. This guides the user what to expect, but also may attract help for the translations on where their help is most needed. -Rob And, now that https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=118895https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118895is fixed (thanks!) the Italian version, even if at 95%-99%, would definitely be ready to ship. We will reach 100% anyway (Paolo knows more but there are more than a dozen vounteers so it won't be a problem for us), but I'm speaking in general: excluding a language at 95%-99% wouldn't make sense. If there are concerns about problems in the translation process/data, then I'd prefer to distribute only builds for which we can identify a volunteer who takes care of testing that the translation is OK in the common use cases. Exactly that is what I have in mind we will only ship languages where volunteers have shown up so far. Juergen
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi, as I can see, POT.zip[1] has broken directory structure -- it has no directories at all. [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27842653/POT.zip -- wbr, sb среда, 28 марта 2012 г. пользователь Claudio Filho писал: Hi 2012/3/27 Anton Meixome meix...@certima.net javascript:;: What else we can do? Anton, instead of sending an email, i did this page[1] with some informations. Maybe can be more useful that send links of old threads. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Localization+Plan Folks, how we haven't a L10N plan/page, i felt free to write this page. If have errors (that i believe that really have), please, fell free to adjust. If the place isn't the best place, i accept suggestions too. Best, Claudio -- wbr, sb
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
On 3/28/12 2:30 PM, Claudio Filho wrote: Hi 2012/3/27 Anton Meixomemeix...@certima.net: What else we can do? Anton, instead of sending an email, i did this page[1] with some informations. Maybe can be more useful that send links of old threads. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Localization+Plan Folks, how we haven't a L10N plan/page, i felt free to write this page. If have errors (that i believe that really have), please, fell free to adjust. If the place isn't the best place, i accept suggestions too. did you know this page http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Localization_for_developers and http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Pootle_User_Guide search in the wiki.servicves.openoffice.org for localization and you will find more. I think we should try collect the information in one place and should consolidate it. Juergen
Distribution of Windows versions
There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi 2012/3/28 Serg Bormant borm...@gmail.com: as I can see, POT.zip[1] has broken directory structure -- it has no directories at all. More or less, Serg. What you need? If is files and directories, ok, it is broken. When you use oo2po[1], you have some options. I started like you said, with *many* dirs/subdirs, but after, i tried too in this way and in one unique file (that is a suicide option, imho). [1]http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/oo2po From this page[1]: --multifile=MULTIFILESTYLE | how to split po/pot files (single, toplevel or onefile) For this POT files, i used toplevel option. So, if you have a team, is more easy send *one* file per translator. But i will update there page and add a 2nd file with dirs/subdirs. Best, Claudio
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi 2012/3/28 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com: did you know this page http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Localization_for_developers and http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Pootle_User_Guide Humm!! Yes, i know this pages, but was outdated. I saw now that you worked a lot over them. Sorry by my mistake. I think we should try collect the information in one place and should consolidate it. Absolutely. I agree with you, but wasn't clear where to work. Thanks by to clear the question, Jürgen. Best, Claudio
Re: Binary packages in releases
I don't foresee any issues impacting this project in terms of it's source distributions, but haven't actually checked that the source tarball does not contain binary artifacts. Sorta defeats the idea of having portable sources if those are present ;-). From: Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 10:06 AM Subject: Binary packages in releases Those of you interested in policy relating to releases. particularly our outstanding issues relating to the our handling of Cat-B licensed dependencies ought to review the current thread Binary dependencies in source releases on the general@incubator.a.o list NOTE: I do *not* want to address these issues before AOO 3.4, as an incubating project you are not expected to have everything perfect and there is no reason to hold up the release while we find our way through this particular problem (especially since some long standing ASF folk are themselves confused - me included). If anyone really wants to get involved at this stage then do so on the general list, not here. For now I recommend tracking the thread and absorbing the information there for when we need to address related issues here. -- Ross Gardler (@rgardler) Programme Leader (Open Development) OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Info about the update protocol
Looking at the most recent experiment with updates.services.apache.org does not inspire my confidence that this service was well-thought-out because it shouldn't be possible for j random user to configure it to poll continuously for updates. I can only hope that future variants of the service were better designed from a network utility standpoint. In any case is there any reason to suspect that throwing this traffic at a protocol-compliant script will be able to tell clients to back off? Where is the update protocol documented in case infra needs to write a more scalable implementation of it as an Apache C module? Any tips, especially a willingness by volunteers to resolve outstanding scaling issues, will be appreciated by both infra and your users of the service. TIA
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi, More or less, Serg. What you need? If is files and directories, ok, it is broken. When POT set has the same directory structure as in pootle it can be processed with gettext tools and translate toolkit tools. Result set of POs can be zipped and uploaded to pootle after migrating translation from previous version. When you use oo2po[1], you have some options. I started like you said, with *many* dirs/subdirs, but after, i tried too in this way and in one unique file (that is a suicide option, imho). [1]http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/oo2po From this page[1]: --multifile=MULTIFILESTYLE | how to split po/pot files (single, toplevel or onefile) Which version of oo2po was used to generate POTs? As for me oo2po from translate-toolkit-1.9.0/python-2.6.6 breaks with diagnostics like: Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/oo2po, line 27, in module oo2po.main() ... ValueError: invalid tab-delimited line: '#\n' -- wbr, sb
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
On 3/28/12 4:34 PM, Serg Bormant wrote: Hi, More or less, Serg. What you need? If is files and directories, ok, it is broken. When POT set has the same directory structure as in pootle it can be processed with gettext tools and translate toolkit tools. Result set of POs can be zipped and uploaded to pootle after migrating translation from previous version. When you use oo2po[1], you have some options. I started like you said, with *many* dirs/subdirs, but after, i tried too in this way and in one unique file (that is a suicide option, imho). [1]http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/oo2po From this page[1]: --multifile=MULTIFILESTYLE | how to split po/pot files (single, toplevel or onefile) Which version of oo2po was used to generate POTs? As for me oo2po from translate-toolkit-1.9.0/python-2.6.6 breaks with diagnostics like: oo2po --version oo2po 1.9.0 What do you need? I can provide a set of po files for you. Juergen Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/oo2po, line 27, inmodule oo2po.main() ... ValueError: invalid tab-delimited line: '#\n'
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi 2012/3/28 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com: oo2po --version oo2po 1.9.0 Thanks. And what about python --version? What do you need? I can provide a set of po files for you. Can you provide POT or PO set with the same directory structure as used for AOO projects on https://translate.apache.org/ru/ ? Thanks. When I tried to pomigrate2 --locale=ru ../ooru/trunk/ui ./ui ./POT with toplevel POT set[1], pocount ui said that less than 1% of early translated messages was migrated: TOTAL: type strings words (source)words (translation) translated: 12 ( 0%) 19 ( 0%) 18 fuzzy: 26 ( 0%) 45 ( 0%) n/a untranslated: 72658 ( 99%) 528304 ( 99%) n/a Total:72696528368 18 ooru/trunk/ui has the same directory structure as AOO project on Apache (and Sun) pootle servers. [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27842653/POT.zip -- wbr, sb
Re: [RELEASE] NOTICE and LICENSE file
Hello; Excuse me I don't really want to be involved in this discussion. I am simply tired of looking those files! However.. just my $0.02. On 03/28/12 04:18, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Hi ... There is already feedback on legal-discuss regarding my post. A short summary: - It seems that LICENSE file and NOTICE file of integrated Apache projects as 3rd party components need to be considered. E.g. Apache APR - It seems that notices of 3rd party components which are licensed under the Apache license need to be considered. E.g. serf - For our planned binary packages the bundled dictionary extensions need to be considered. If you are interested in further details you may have a look at http://markmail.org/thread/ze722s7ovb5pjdnn The thread and particualrly Marvin Humphrey's first reply are very interesting but I don't agree with your summary. It is clear to me that the NOTICE file has only to purposes: 1. To cover for the advertisement clause the classic BSD licenses and ASL (1-1.1). 2. To inform about probable patent issues. The above two things are typically the things that make software GPL incompatible. My conclusions are: (1) We are carrying way too much information in our NOTICE and LICENSE files. (2) The mere existance of a LICENSE file would indicate we cannot comply with the GPL. The GPL, however only applies to distribution not to use. I think to be consistent with (2) we cannot carry GPL notices, plus those are not shipped always. I think the way around that is add a general disclaimer note about alien extensions that may be included in a binary package that are under an independent license but don't constitute derived works. Thus, I will continue my work on this task: - First I will create a LICENSE file and a NOTICE file for the source package of our release. These will be the files trunk/main/LICENSE and trunk/main/NOTICE This must be stripped, Please note that we already carry information about other Apache Projects like Tomcat and Commons in our NOTICE file. The AL2 doesn't have an advertisement clause, so I think almost everything there should go except for OpenSSL and maybe the ICC stuff and the Adobe stuff. - Then I will create a LICENSE file and a NOTICE file for the binary packages of our release. I will name them trunk/main/LICENSE-binary-package and trunk/main/NOTICE-binary-package You can call make LICENSE addendums but then those vary with the specific dictionaries bundled. In the thread there is uncertainty if we should include such thing in LICENSE or if we should just note them prominently in the extensions themselves. Pedro. cheers, Pedro. I think Best regards, Oliver.
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
On 3/28/12 5:07 PM, Serg Bormant wrote: Hi 2012/3/28 Jürgen Schmidtjogischm...@googlemail.com: oo2po --version oo2po 1.9.0 Thanks. And what about python --version? What do you need? I can provide a set of po files for you. Can you provide POT or PO set with the same directory structure as used for AOO projects on https://translate.apache.org/ru/ ? Thanks. yes I can and will do it later ... I have updated the Pootle server and I am still updating the help project ... UI For the UI we have a straight forward directory structure that is equal to the pot directory structure that you get from the en-US.sdf file using oo2po ... Help In the current help project we have cut the helpcontent2 directory and start with source. The only advantage I see here is the shorter path. But it makes things more complicate for updates... Anyway we will change this in the future. The file http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/aoo34_pot_templates.tar.bz2 contains the latest pot files (including) helpcontent2. Simply move helpcontent2 in a separate directory and use the source only for your help project. For the UI you can use the rest of the template folder. The file http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf contains the latest resource strings that are used as base for the new templates. po files ru will I zip later together for you. Juergen PS: please be patient with the help project until I have completed the update. Only few languages left. When I tried to pomigrate2 --locale=ru ../ooru/trunk/ui ./ui ./POT with toplevel POT set[1], pocount ui said that less than 1% of early translated messages was migrated: TOTAL: type strings words (source)words (translation) translated: 12 ( 0%) 19 ( 0%) 18 fuzzy: 26 ( 0%) 45 ( 0%) n/a untranslated: 72658 ( 99%) 528304 ( 99%) n/a Total:72696528368 18 ooru/trunk/ui has the same directory structure as AOO project on Apache (and Sun) pootle servers. [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27842653/POT.zip
Ooo for Win XP, type ahead feature
I have Ooo for Linux and Ooo for Win XP. I noticed that the Ooo for win xp doesn't type the words ahead like the one on Linux does. Is this feature going to be added some day to the Win XP version? I know this is a minor thing, given that Ooo is such a great application. I'm really happy with it. Luciano
Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
Hi, I am sorry i am new to this dev mailing list. What is the real requirement. In what areas we need people for the next 1 year. What is the exact skill set needed. Let me see if i can help you in anyway. Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:47:30 +0100, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 March 2012 02:38, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Many great thoughts here. In addition to supporting the open source movement, perhaps we could market participation as a way to learn and develop skills. Maybe a certificate for AOO development professional? Work out the key skills needed to contribute to development and write a set of indicative assessment criteria. Get a mentor to verify the candidate's evidence that they can meet the criteria. If there was interest in it we have the facilities to support it including secure on-line testing facilities and a Drupal system for managing coursework evidence which we would do as a free contribution to the project. We'd just need help defining the criteria from the most experienced developers. As a newbie, it appears that much our message is around what we need - which is essential to understand, however we may want to focus on why someone may want to join and help them realize their goals. For example, if someone is looking to demonstrate their skills and develop portfolio work products, then AOO offers a sandbox of opportunity. And a potential certification of skills. Some thoughts. Regards, Kevin On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On 2012-03-19, at 08:41 , Rob Weir wrote: Any ideas and the best ways how we can improve in this area after AOO 3.4 releases? Lots, and these would complement the rather good ideas already proposed. What we did at OOo actually worked--to attract developers and contributors of all sorts. What worked against us I do not think I need spell out, but the cussedness of the code was not really the determining factor. What really would help, besides giving would-bes a clean entry, is to have mentors, more or less do-able tasks that are identified as such. (We tried getting to this many times, and I strongly urged my erstwhile colleagues in this area for, uhm, years. Finally happened, and we got our to-dos but still not clearly identified according to level of difficulty. I can conceive of several here whose work would assist in the identification of tasks newbies could approach--and even post-newbies-and perhaps even in mentoring.) Also, what helps tremendously is what we are doing already: presenting a community that is open, friendly, and generally has a good attitude about what it is doing and where it is going. There are millions using OOo as their primary ODF implementation, and those mostly include those who have come to it via the national or sub-national government agency. I think it's about time that they are looking to AOO for the next step. I think the idea of a new contributor mentor is essential. This is true for coders, but also website, translation, documentation, test, UI, etc. What we have today is very much a swim or sink and drink from the fire hose approach. If someone is highly motivated, highly skilled and persistent, and is able to withstand the apparent chaos of the ooo-dev list, and penetrates the noise and asks questions, and repeats their questions until answered, then they might have a 50/50 chance of contributing. But let's be honest with ourselves -- there are a range of projects someone can contribute to. For would-be volunteers it is a buyer's market. If we make it too hard to get involved and contribute, technically, procedurally, socially, then we lose. But getting new volunteers on board requires effort. If someone is spending 100% of their time on their own features, then they have no time to help new volunteers become productive. One approach might be to define essential skills or essential knowledge that a new volunteer needs to master in order to become productive, and then a list of project members who are willing to help mentor new volunteers to acquire those skills. For example, for the website, the essential skills might be: 1) Assume HTML/CSS, we're not here to teach that 2) Help them get started with Markdown Text 3) Help them use the CMS to generate patches 4) Help them build website locally via the scripts 5) Understanding the larger site design, including recurring page elements, footers, etc. 6) In parallel with above, understanding Apache, roles, decision making, lazy consensus, CTR versus RTC, what Infra does versus what the project is responsible for, etc. 7) Help them establish a record of contributions to become a committer
Re: [RELEASE] Dictionary extensions
On 28.03.2012 00:08, Pedro Giffuni wrote: --- Mar 27/3/12, Andrea Pescettipesce...@apache.org ha scritto: ... I downloaded the source from SVN. But did not find the file th_ru_RU_v2.idx Maybe it has to be generated during the build process? Checked that in the dictionary for the German equivalent file is present (this thesaurus index file). Generated with the help of his MyThes and assembled a complete test version of the dictionary. Index files could be generated at build time, but OpenOffice.org historically did not do it, preferring to use pre-built files. And now that included dictionaries must be packaged as verbatim extensions, we will surely need to package the index file in the extensions rather than generating it at build time. I think I pointed to the right russian dictionary in the Wiki and I am adding some few extension that were requested in Bugzilla. Croatian is a special case, they relicensed their dict to ALv2 but the one in the extensions site: http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/search/node/croatian doesn't seem to be updated. We need someone that will regenerate it (it does include idx). I have updated main/extensions.lst accordingly. Please note that at the moment only two languages will have more than their native dictionary bundled: nl and ru. Please speak up if you want more dictionaries for other languages as well. I also updated some language names in the Language column on the wiki page to values that are understood by our build environment (especially the --with-lang configure switch): removed the country parts, eg fr_FR became fr. Updated the download link for Norwegian due to problems with the redirect. Finally, I added a new switch to configure. By saying --disable-bundled-dictionaries you can now, well, disable the bundling of dictionary extensions. More importantly it detects whether hunspell is available. If not the dictionaries are not bundled because the would not work anyway. -Andre Cheers, Pedro.
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Claudio Filho [filh...@gmail.com] kirjoitti: Hi 2012/3/27 Anton Meixome meix...@certima.net: What else we can do? Anton, instead of sending an email, i did this page[1] with some informations. Maybe can be more useful that send links of old threads. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Localization+Plan Folks, how we haven't a L10N plan/page, i felt free to write this page. If have errors (that i believe that really have), please, fell free to adjust. If the place isn't the best place, i accept suggestions too. Best, Claudio I try to follow orders on the page but there was no information where I can find en-US.sdf -file. I find one using google (12 925 584 bytes) I think I succeed to create old.sdf file but then I got this: - ristoi@Uusbuntu ~/AOOWDir $ oo2po --source-language=en-US -l fi -i old.sdf fi Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/oo2po, line 27, in module oo2po.main() File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/oo2po.py, line 170, in main parser.run(argv) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 136, in run self.recursiveprocess(options) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 359, in recursiveprocess return super(ArchiveConvertOptionParser, self).recursiveprocess(options) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/misc/optrecurse.py, line 495, in recursiveprocess inputfiles = self.recurseinputfiles(options) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 250, in recurseinputfiles options.inputarchive = self.openarchive(options.input, 'input') File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 245, in openarchive return archiveclass(archivefilename, **archiveoptions) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/storage/oo.py, line 341, in __init__ self.createsubfileindex() File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/storage/oo.py, line 347, in createsubfileindex subfile = self.getsubfilename(line) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/storage/oo.py, line 356, in getsubfilename raise ValueError(invalid tab-delimited line: %r % line) ValueError: invalid tab-delimited line: '#\n' - There seem to exist no file in Fi directory. I must admit that I use modern OS with GUI (LinuxMint) and those command line tools are not for me. But if there is some easy way to continue here I will try. Greetings Risto
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi 2012/3/28 Risto Jääskeläinen rjaas...@saunalahti.fi: I try to follow orders on the page but there was no information where I can find en-US.sdf -file. I find one using google (12 925 584 bytes) I think I succeed to create old.sdf file but then I got this: - ristoi@Uusbuntu ~/AOOWDir $ oo2po --source-language=en-US -l fi -i old.sdf fi Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/oo2po, line 27, in module oo2po.main() File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/oo2po.py, line 170, in main parser.run(argv) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 136, in run self.recursiveprocess(options) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 359, in recursiveprocess return super(ArchiveConvertOptionParser, self).recursiveprocess(options) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/misc/optrecurse.py, line 495, in recursiveprocess inputfiles = self.recurseinputfiles(options) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 250, in recurseinputfiles options.inputarchive = self.openarchive(options.input, 'input') File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 245, in openarchive return archiveclass(archivefilename, **archiveoptions) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/storage/oo.py, line 341, in __init__ self.createsubfileindex() File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/storage/oo.py, line 347, in createsubfileindex subfile = self.getsubfilename(line) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/storage/oo.py, line 356, in getsubfilename raise ValueError(invalid tab-delimited line: %r % line) ValueError: invalid tab-delimited line: '#\n' - There seem to exist no file in Fi directory. I must admit that I use modern OS with GUI (LinuxMint) and those command line tools are not for me. But if there is some easy way to continue here I will try. I got the same result with localized .sdf. Try to use http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf from Jürgen Schmidt. -- wbr, sb
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Serg Bormant [borm...@gmail.com] kirjoitti: Hi 2012/3/28 Risto Jääskeläinen rjaas...@saunalahti.fi: I try to follow orders on the page but there was no information where I can find en-US.sdf -file. I find one using google (12 925 584 bytes) I think I succeed to create old.sdf file but then I got this: - ristoi@Uusbuntu ~/AOOWDir $ oo2po --source-language=en-US -l fi -i old.sdf fi Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/oo2po, line 27, in module oo2po.main() File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/oo2po.py, line 170, in main parser.run(argv) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 136, in run self.recursiveprocess(options) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 359, in recursiveprocess return super(ArchiveConvertOptionParser, self).recursiveprocess(options) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/misc/optrecurse.py, line 495, in recursiveprocess inputfiles = self.recurseinputfiles(options) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 250, in recurseinputfiles options.inputarchive = self.openarchive(options.input, 'input') File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/convert/convert.py, line 245, in openarchive return archiveclass(archivefilename, **archiveoptions) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/storage/oo.py, line 341, in __init__ self.createsubfileindex() File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/storage/oo.py, line 347, in createsubfileindex subfile = self.getsubfilename(line) File /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/translate/storage/oo.py, line 356, in getsubfilename raise ValueError(invalid tab-delimited line: %r % line) ValueError: invalid tab-delimited line: '#\n' - There seem to exist no file in Fi directory. I must admit that I use modern OS with GUI (LinuxMint) and those command line tools are not for me. But if there is some easy way to continue here I will try. I got the same result with localized .sdf. Try to use http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf from Jürgen Schmidt. -- wbr, sb Thank you for info but I think I had correct en-US.sdf file in this step: ristoi@Uusbuntu ~/AOOWDir $ cat en-US.sdf fi.sdf old.sdf File fi.sdf was localize.sdf but when it fails I just change name. No help for that. Regards Risto
Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] redirection of update services to www.openoffice.org
On 03/23/2012 01:41 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Hi, On 22.03.2012 22:35, Kay Schenk wrote: As we all know, the program update services, the actual update equipment and the services they provided have not worked *in a while*, they are non-responsive. 1) Background and Problem This would include the following URLS: update.services.openoffice.org update30.services.openoffice.org update31.services.openoffice.org update32.services.openoffice.org update33.services.openoffice.org update34.services.openoffice.org update35.services.openoffice.org update36.services.openoffice.org Pings to these don't return. These are referenced in the program in a user's install location/program/version init file the name of version init file varies by installation platform. Each of the update services above typically included a check for update area with the name-- .../ProductUpdateService/check.Update A complete URL example (referenced in the version file): update36.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update(?optional params) check.Update would normally be an xml feed which would include, as part of its entry for each platform, and language version, a pointer to another URL which would actually have and install the update for the given system. See details and notes on this at: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Update_Notification_Protocol 2) Proposed Solution Several participants on this list have been researching the Update Notification Protocol and creating snippets of the feeds (both simple and atom) for very limited one platform situations. However, the creation of a complete feed for all platforms has not been done ... yet. More research and development time is needed for this. Meanwhile, many current OOo users who either use the check for updates feature of their program or have updates automatically enabled continue to be frustrated with the unavailability of the update service. Although we still have not solved the problem of *HOW* to re-create the complete service (feed), we can create a null placeholder feed for all services mentioned in 1) that would return the message: OpenOffice x.x is up to date Essentially, all update services mentioned above would be redirected an appropriate area on the current web server, www.openoffice.org, which would return no information in placeholder feeds for each update service. Thoughts? First, Thx Kay for the summary. From my side a +1 to this proposal. From my point of view the no information placeholder is a temporary solution to fullfill the purpose to avoid the frustation of our users of former versions. It should be working until our AOO 3.4 release (may be 1 or 2 weeks longer). When AOO 3.4 is out my expectation is that we provide a platform-independent and language-independent check.Update information which provides a download website which the user can open in her/his browser from the office's update service dialog. On this website we can state that AOO 3.4 is out and that the user should have a look, if a corresponding package for her/his platform and language is available for download and installation. Best regards, Oliver. After an experiment with just redirecting update.services.openoffice.org, an older update service which I thought would have little impact, to www.openoffice.org yesterday, I am rescinding this suggestion. Yes, we need to port even a simple reply like this somewhere, but it's clear it can't be via the web server due to load considerations. Suggestions on an alternate setup/location? -- MzK Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] redirection of update services to www.openoffice.org
Well I wouldn't say it like that Kay. The problem with any update service is the sheer number of clients out there configured to abuse it. There are a number of options available, but most of them revolve around providing an Apache C module to at least cut down on the redundant traffic before showing it to your script. Is it actually a cgi script at this point that you are trying to service the traffic with, or just a static file? Right now our webserver is configured to disallow any attempts to POST data to us, so none of yesterday's traffic was handled by any of your work in this regard- it was all interrupted by the server with a Method Not Allowed 4xx response. I'd be willing to try experimenting again if in fact you are trying to service that traffic with a static file that naturally ignores POST data instead of with a cgi script. The point is to figure out how to see if those misconfigured clients will back-off if given an expected response. From: Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] redirection of update services to www.openoffice.org On 03/23/2012 01:41 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Hi, On 22.03.2012 22:35, Kay Schenk wrote: As we all know, the program update services, the actual update equipment and the services they provided have not worked *in a while*, they are non-responsive. 1) Background and Problem This would include the following URLS: update.services.openoffice.org update30.services.openoffice.org update31.services.openoffice.org update32.services.openoffice.org update33.services.openoffice.org update34.services.openoffice.org update35.services.openoffice.org update36.services.openoffice.org Pings to these don't return. These are referenced in the program in a user's install location/program/version init file the name of version init file varies by installation platform. Each of the update services above typically included a check for update area with the name-- .../ProductUpdateService/check.Update A complete URL example (referenced in the version file): update36.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update(?optional params) check.Update would normally be an xml feed which would include, as part of its entry for each platform, and language version, a pointer to another URL which would actually have and install the update for the given system. See details and notes on this at: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Update_Notification_Protocol 2) Proposed Solution Several participants on this list have been researching the Update Notification Protocol and creating snippets of the feeds (both simple and atom) for very limited one platform situations. However, the creation of a complete feed for all platforms has not been done ... yet. More research and development time is needed for this. Meanwhile, many current OOo users who either use the check for updates feature of their program or have updates automatically enabled continue to be frustrated with the unavailability of the update service. Although we still have not solved the problem of *HOW* to re-create the complete service (feed), we can create a null placeholder feed for all services mentioned in 1) that would return the message: OpenOffice x.x is up to date Essentially, all update services mentioned above would be redirected an appropriate area on the current web server, www.openoffice.org, which would return no information in placeholder feeds for each update service. Thoughts? First, Thx Kay for the summary. From my side a +1 to this proposal. From my point of view the no information placeholder is a temporary solution to fullfill the purpose to avoid the frustation of our users of former versions. It should be working until our AOO 3.4 release (may be 1 or 2 weeks longer). When AOO 3.4 is out my expectation is that we provide a platform-independent and language-independent check.Update information which provides a download website which the user can open in her/his browser from the office's update service dialog. On this website we can state that AOO 3.4 is out and that the user should have a look, if a corresponding package for her/his platform and language is available for download and installation. Best regards, Oliver. After an experiment with just redirecting update.services.openoffice.org, an older update service which I thought would have little impact, to www.openoffice.org yesterday, I am rescinding this suggestion. Yes, we need to port even a simple reply like this somewhere, but it's clear it can't be via the web server due to load considerations. Suggestions on an alternate setup/location? -- MzK Women and cats will do as they please, and men
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi 2012/3/28 Risto Jääskeläinen rjaas...@saunalahti.fi: Thank you for info but I think I had correct en-US.sdf file in this step: ristoi@Uusbuntu ~/AOOWDir $ cat en-US.sdf fi.sdf old.sdf File fi.sdf was localize.sdf but when it fails I just change name. No help for that. Simple try this: $ wget http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf $ oo2po -l fi en-US.sdf fi Now check ./fi directory for PO set. Does it help? -- wbr, sb
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi 2012/3/28 Serg Bormant borm...@gmail.com: 2012/3/28 Risto Jääskeläinen rjaas...@saunalahti.fi: Thank you for info but I think I had correct en-US.sdf file in this step: ristoi@Uusbuntu ~/AOOWDir $ cat en-US.sdf fi.sdf old.sdf File fi.sdf was localize.sdf but when it fails I just change name. No help for that. Sorry, Risto. For this step, you need to do: $ wget http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf $ http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/extras/l10n/source/fi/localize.sdf?revision=1229431view=co -o fi.SDF Then you will have the template (en_US) more the old translation (fi) in the same directory, so you can merge in an unique file. $ cat en-US.sdf fi.sdf fi.old.sdf After, convert in PO files. $ oo2po --source-language=en-US -l fi -i fi.old.sdf fi This command will extract the msgid from en-US part and msgstring from fi part. When one or other haven't its pair, return a error, jumping the file. The new created dir called fi will be your TM. So, get the POT files and run the automatic translation, if your translate tool have this feature. At final, is revise what are marks as fuzzy and fill what is empty. Best, Claudio
Re: Distribution of Windows versions
Rob , Interesting, do you have also figures about the differences in OS : Windows versus Linux or Mac etc.. Greetz Fernand There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Serg Bormant [borm...@gmail.com] kirjoitti: Hi 2012/3/28 Risto Jääskeläinen rjaas...@saunalahti.fi: Thank you for info but I think I had correct en-US.sdf file in this step: ristoi@Uusbuntu ~/AOOWDir $ cat en-US.sdf fi.sdf old.sdf File fi.sdf was localize.sdf but when it fails I just change name. No help for that. Simple try this: $ wget http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf This create file en-US.sdf.1 It seem to be quite same than what I already had. $ oo2po -l fi en-US.sdf fi I got lot of lines, here last ones: --- Warning: targetlanguage 'fi' not found in inputfile 'helpcontent2/source/text/scalc/guide.oo' (contains en-US) Warning: targetlanguage 'fi' not found in inputfile 'padmin/source.oo' (contains en-US) [###] 100% Now check ./fi directory for PO set. Does it help? Yes there is many directories and maybe all .po files with 0% translations -- wbr, sb Regards Risto
Re: Distribution of Windows versions
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Fernand Vanrie s...@pmgroup.be wrote: Rob , Interesting, do you have also figures about the differences in OS : Windows versus Linux or Mac etc.. There were some numbers posted on that a few weeks ago. These charts show the MirrorBrain downloads of OpenOffice, from February: http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/marketing_bouncer.html So, 90% Windows, 6% Mac, 3% Linux. But note this is not necessarily the same distribution as the overall user base. Some ports, like BSD and OS/2 are distributed on other web sites, so they are not counted here. And some derivatives of OOo are included in the Linux distros directly, so are not reflected in these numbers. -Rob Greetz Fernand There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
2012/3/28 Risto Jääskeläinen rjaas...@saunalahti.fi: $ oo2po -l fi en-US.sdf fi I got lot of lines, here last ones: --- Warning: targetlanguage 'fi' not found in inputfile 'helpcontent2/source/text/scalc/guide.oo' (contains en-US) Warning: targetlanguage 'fi' not found in inputfile 'padmin/source.oo' (contains en-US) [###] 100% Yes, what is natural. It happens because haven't the pair msgid/msgstr, or in other words, have only a msgid from en without a pair in fi, or haven't msgid in en for a msgstr in fi. It is ok only when oo2po find a msgid in en with its msgstr in fi, creating the pair. Claudio
Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] redirection of update services to www.openoffice.org
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.comwrote: Well I wouldn't say it like that Kay. ok...well, I didn't know how to word it since I didn't exactly understand what you were saying. The cgi area I was trying to experiment with with separate from the DNS change asked for. More below... The problem with any update service is the sheer number of clients out there configured to abuse it. There are a number of options available, but most of them revolve around providing an Apache C module to at least cut down on the redundant traffic before showing it to your script. Is it actually a cgi script at this point that you are trying to service the traffic with, or just a static file? Right now our webserver is configured to disallow any attempts to POST data to us, so none of yesterday's traffic was handled by any of your work in this regard- it was all interrupted by the server with a Method Not Allowed 4xx response. What this service is, is an XML file that can be processed by OpenOffice clients to inform them that updates are available and what form that update takes. The XML file can then cause actual update installations or, just simple links to a web page (initiating a browser open) where the use can then choose what to install. I don't thinks this qualifies as a cgi does it? Maybe I'm not knowledgabel enough about this to answer this question to your satisfaction. I'd be willing to try experimenting again if in fact you are trying to service that traffic with a static file that naturally ignores POST data instead of with a cgi script. The point is to figure out how to see if those misconfigured clients will back-off if given an expected response. Hmmm... the clients are not misconfigured, but it could very well be that we need to understand more about how the backend configuration --i.e. the XML feed, affects the client, and the response from the update server. Much will depend on what we want the end response to be. The simple script that does nothing should have little effect I would think. If we got a bit more adventurous and actually sent the user to a page for updates -- well, I am not sure what the outcome of this would be. I'm still experimenting with my own setup (manual DNS changes), and some responses, etc. I will let you know if I want to try something further. But I definitely don't want to impact the existing Apache web server, so really an alternate location would be best. I'll be back in touch at some point. From: Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] redirection of update services to www.openoffice.org On 03/23/2012 01:41 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Hi, On 22.03.2012 22:35, Kay Schenk wrote: As we all know, the program update services, the actual update equipment and the services they provided have not worked *in a while*, they are non-responsive. 1) Background and Problem This would include the following URLS: update.services.openoffice.org update30.services.openoffice.org update31.services.openoffice.org update32.services.openoffice.org update33.services.openoffice.org update34.services.openoffice.org update35.services.openoffice.org update36.services.openoffice.org Pings to these don't return. These are referenced in the program in a user's install location/program/version init file the name of version init file varies by installation platform. Each of the update services above typically included a check for update area with the name-- .../ProductUpdateService/check.Update A complete URL example (referenced in the version file): update36.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update(http://update36.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update%28 ?optional params) check.Update would normally be an xml feed which would include, as part of its entry for each platform, and language version, a pointer to another URL which would actually have and install the update for the given system. See details and notes on this at: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Update_Notification_Protocol 2) Proposed Solution Several participants on this list have been researching the Update Notification Protocol and creating snippets of the feeds (both simple and atom) for very limited one platform situations. However, the creation of a complete feed for all platforms has not been done ... yet. More research and development time is needed for this. Meanwhile, many current OOo users who either use the check for updates feature of their program or have updates automatically enabled continue to be frustrated with the unavailability of the update service. Although we still have not solved the problem of *HOW* to re-create the complete service
Re: Distribution of Windows versions
On Wed, 2012-03-28 at 13:25 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Fernand Vanrie s...@pmgroup.be wrote: Rob , Interesting, do you have also figures about the differences in OS : Windows versus Linux or Mac etc.. There were some numbers posted on that a few weeks ago. These charts show the MirrorBrain downloads of OpenOffice, from February: http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/marketing_bouncer.html So, 90% Windows, 6% Mac, 3% Linux. But note this is not necessarily the same distribution as the overall user base. Some ports, like BSD and OS/2 are distributed on other web sites, so they are not counted here. And some derivatives of OOo are included in the Linux distros directly, so are not reflected in these numbers. Please, and asking only for myself, if you know of a linux distro using a derivative of Apache OpenOffice do name it - if you mean LibreOffice, please stop calling it a derivative - it is not a valid reflection of the facts, if you are referring to the former package OpenOffice.org then please refer to it by its legal name. -Rob Greetz Fernand There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi 2012/3/28 Claudio Filho filh...@gmail.com: Sorry, Risto. For this step, you need to do: $ wget http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf $ http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/extras/l10n/source/fi/localize.sdf?revision=1229431view=co -o fi.SDF $ wget http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf $ wget http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/extras/l10n/source/fi/localize.sdf?revision=1229431view=co -O fi.SDF Lost wget in second line and -O (upper case o) instead of -o Then you will have the template (en_US) more the old translation (fi) in the same directory, so you can merge in an unique file. $ cat en-US.sdf fi.sdf fi.old.sdf After, convert in PO files. $ oo2po --source-language=en-US -l fi -i fi.old.sdf fi ... and now you get backtrace with ValueError: invalid tab-delimited line: '#\n' If you don't use content of localized .sdf oo2po does the task. It is the time to migrate old translate to empty PO set now. -- wbr, sb
Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: Many great thoughts here. In addition to supporting the open source movement, perhaps we could market participation as a way to learn and develop skills. As a newbie, it appears that much our message is around what we need - which is essential to understand, however we may want to focus on why someone may want to join and help them realize their goals. For example, if someone is looking to demonstrate their skills and develop portfolio work products, then AOO offers a sandbox of opportunity. That is certainly one possible motivation. Someone at the start of their career, or considering a new career, starts with less in their resume. So open source participation can be almost like an unpaid internship -- gain some experience, skills, references, etc. There was a study a few years ago that looked at open source participation, specifically looking at Apache projects. The authors found: First, we find that developers’ motivations are not independent but rather are related in complex ways. Being paid to contribute to Apache projects is positively related to developers’ status motivations but negatively related to their use-value motivations. Perhaps surprisingly, we find no evidence of diminished intrinsic motivation in the presence of extrinsic motivations; rather, status motivations enhance intrinsic motivations. Second, we find that different motivations have an impact on participation in different ways. Developers’ paid participation and status motivations lead to above-average contribution levels, but use-value motivations lead to below-average contribution levels, and intrinsic motivations do not significantly impact average contribution levels. Third, we find that developers’ contribution levels positively impact their performance rankings. Finally, our results suggest that past-performance rankings enhance developers’ subsequent status motivations. http://mansci.journal.informs.org/content/52/7/984.abstract (And no, I have zero idea what that means. But it sure sounds impressive.) In any case, new volunteers have various motivations, and so do more experienced members who volunteer to mentor new participants. So all sorts of combinations are interests are possible. But I suspect the same two questions occur over and over again: 1) What are some things I can work on now that match my skill level and time commitment? 2) I want to do X, How do I get started, technically or procedurally? In other words, we have volunteers looking for an area to help with, and we have others who want to accomplish something specific, but need help figuring out how to do it. -Rob Some thoughts. Regards, Kevin On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On 2012-03-19, at 08:41 , Rob Weir wrote: Any ideas and the best ways how we can improve in this area after AOO 3.4 releases? Lots, and these would complement the rather good ideas already proposed. What we did at OOo actually worked--to attract developers and contributors of all sorts. What worked against us I do not think I need spell out, but the cussedness of the code was not really the determining factor. What really would help, besides giving would-bes a clean entry, is to have mentors, more or less do-able tasks that are identified as such. (We tried getting to this many times, and I strongly urged my erstwhile colleagues in this area for, uhm, years. Finally happened, and we got our to-dos but still not clearly identified according to level of difficulty. I can conceive of several here whose work would assist in the identification of tasks newbies could approach--and even post-newbies-and perhaps even in mentoring.) Also, what helps tremendously is what we are doing already: presenting a community that is open, friendly, and generally has a good attitude about what it is doing and where it is going. There are millions using OOo as their primary ODF implementation, and those mostly include those who have come to it via the national or sub-national government agency. I think it's about time that they are looking to AOO for the next step. I think the idea of a new contributor mentor is essential. This is true for coders, but also website, translation, documentation, test, UI, etc. What we have today is very much a swim or sink and drink from the fire hose approach. If someone is highly motivated, highly skilled and persistent, and is able to withstand the apparent chaos of the ooo-dev list, and penetrates the noise and asks questions, and repeats their questions until answered, then they might have a 50/50 chance of contributing. But let's be honest with ourselves -- there are a range of projects someone can contribute to. For would-be volunteers it is a
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Claudio Filho [filh...@gmail.com] kirjoitti: Hi 2012/3/28 Serg Bormant borm...@gmail.com: 2012/3/28 Risto Jääskeläinen rjaas...@saunalahti.fi: Thank you for info but I think I had correct en-US.sdf file in this step: ristoi@Uusbuntu ~/AOOWDir $ cat en-US.sdf fi.sdf old.sdf File fi.sdf was localize.sdf but when it fails I just change name. No help for that. Sorry, Risto. For this step, you need to do: $ wget http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf $ http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/extras/l10n/source/fi/localize.sdf?revision=1229431view=co -o fi.SDF Then you will have the template (en_US) more the old translation (fi) in the same directory, so you can merge in an unique file. $ cat en-US.sdf fi.sdf fi.old.sdf After, convert in PO files. $ oo2po --source-language=en-US -l fi -i fi.old.sdf fi This command will extract the msgid from en-US part and msgstring from fi part. When one or other haven't its pair, return a error, jumping the file. The new created dir called fi will be your TM. So, get the POT files and run the automatic translation, if your translate tool have this feature. At final, is revise what are marks as fuzzy and fill what is empty. Best, Claudio No I am enought confused. I just deleted whole directory. And start over. I got this: Tiedostoa tai hakemistoa ei ole -o: komentoa ei löydy Maybe it's better I stop using terminal. It is too ancient for me. Regards Risto
Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] redirection of update services to www.openoffice.org
Well no self-respecting web programmer would have the client loop over and over until it receives a proper xml response from the server, yet that appears to be the case here, so I'm charitably suggesting that the clients aren't properly configured instead of suggesting there's a bug in the software. In any case we need to be realistic about the impact of such traffic if we ever hope to expose the service to every user past and present- there might be times when us server admins need to move/interrupt that traffic for various reasons, and not having the flexibility to do so without serious implications to our infra is a problem. If there's somethingto fix in the software in some HTTP status-code aware way, let's do that, so at least wecan avoid carrying thisproblem thru to new/upgraded users. FWIW the request in question is POST /ProductUpdateService/check.Update Host: update.services.openoffice.org which if we pointed it at the main webserver again would redirect to POST /projects/update/ProductUpdateService/check.Update Host: www.openoffice.org which maps to content/projects/update/ProductUpdateService/check.Update in your svn tree, which is just a basic XML file, not a cgi script. For testing purposes I'm comfortable working with you Kay on #asfinfra (freenode) to deal with the traffic load again should you wish to pursue further testing on the main webserver. After all the server exists to support Apache projects and their use cases, not simply to provide a stable web-serving platform, so this use case is in scope provided we have sufficient coordination (#asfinfra) to deal with the traffic in real-time. From: Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] redirection of update services to www.openoffice.org On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: Well I wouldn't say it like that Kay. ok...well, I didn't know how to word it since I didn't exactly understand what you were saying. The cgi area I was trying to experiment with with separate from the DNS change asked for. More below... The problem with any update service is the sheer number of clients out there configured to abuse it. There are a number of options available, but most of them revolve around providing an Apache C module to at least cut down on the redundant traffic before showing it to your script. Is it actually a cgi script at this point that you are trying to service the traffic with, or just a static file? Right now our webserver is configured to disallow any attempts to POST data to us, so none of yesterday's traffic was handled by any of your work in this regard- it was all interrupted by the server with a Method Not Allowed 4xx response. What this service is, is an XML file that can be processed by OpenOffice clients to inform them that updates are available and what form that update takes. The XML file can then cause actual update installations or, just simple links to a web page (initiating a browser open) where the use can then choose what to install. I don't thinks this qualifies as a cgi does it? Maybe I'm not knowledgabel enough about this to answer this question to your satisfaction. I'd be willing to try experimenting again if in fact you are trying to service that traffic with a static file that naturally ignores POST data instead of with a cgi script. The point is to figure out how to see if those misconfigured clients will back-off if given an expected response. Hmmm... the clients are not misconfigured, but it could very well be that we need to understand more about how the backend configuration --i.e. the XML feed, affects the client, and the response from the update server. Much will depend on what we want the end response to be. The simple script that does nothing should have little effect I would think. If we got a bit more adventurous and actually sent the user to a page for updates -- well, I am not sure what the outcome of this would be. I'm still experimenting with my own setup (manual DNS changes), and some responses, etc. I will let you know if I want to try something further. But I definitely don't want to impact the existing Apache web server, so really an alternate location would be best. I'll be back in touch at some point. From: Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] redirection of update services to www.openoffice.org On 03/23/2012 01:41 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Hi, On 22.03.2012 22:35, Kay Schenk wrote: As we all know, the program update services, the actual update equipment and the services they provided have not worked *in a while*, they are non-responsive. 1) Background and Problem
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi gsicheck was used for .sdf checking: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Gsicheck http://ooo.services.openoffice.org/gsicheck/ Second link (link to download gsicheck) is broken now. -- wbr, sb
Bugzilla 4.2 has been released
This is the release that adds support for Disabling Old Components, Versions and Milestones, something that would make our lives a lot easier. See: http://www.bugzilla.org/releases/4.2/release-notes.html#v42_feat_product Would it make sense to let Infra know that we're willing to test/pilot Bugzilla 4.2, if that would be useful, before any general roll-out to other projects? -Rob
Re: Distribution of Windows versions
Okay so all this data really tells us is that more people download on windows 7. Does this really mean we should stop supporting windows 2000 all together? On 3/28/12, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi 2012/3/28 Risto Jääskeläinen rjaas...@saunalahti.fi: Maybe it's better I stop using terminal. It is too ancient for me. :-) I did a TM in PO format for you, from old fi.sdf. Now, is use POT files and to fill with this TM in an automated process. I think that you will fill ~85% of all. Best, Claudio
Re: Distribution of Windows versions
On Wed, 2012-03-28 at 13:57 -0400, Kevin Sisco wrote: Okay so all this data really tells us is that more people download on windows 7. Does this really mean we should stop supporting windows 2000 all together? Hi Kevin, Yes I would say it does just as, when it was appropriate, the old OpenOffice.org project dropped official support for 98 and CE. IMO it is that time for Win 2000. //drew On 3/28/12, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: Distribution of Windows versions
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:34 PM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, 2012-03-28 at 13:25 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Fernand Vanrie s...@pmgroup.be wrote: Rob , Interesting, do you have also figures about the differences in OS : Windows versus Linux or Mac etc.. There were some numbers posted on that a few weeks ago. These charts show the MirrorBrain downloads of OpenOffice, from February: http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/marketing_bouncer.html So, 90% Windows, 6% Mac, 3% Linux. But note this is not necessarily the same distribution as the overall user base. Some ports, like BSD and OS/2 are distributed on other web sites, so they are not counted here. And some derivatives of OOo are included in the Linux distros directly, so are not reflected in these numbers. Please, and asking only for myself, if you know of a linux distro using a derivative of Apache OpenOffice do name it - if you mean LibreOffice, please stop calling it a derivative - it is not a valid reflection of the facts, if you are referring to the former package OpenOffice.org then please refer to it by its legal name. I don't think LO makes sense in this context. We're talking about OOo flavors. The relevant version of OO o distributed by distros was Go-OO. Their numbers would not be included in the MirrorBrain stats. -Rob -Rob Greetz Fernand There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: [RELEASE]: status update where we are and plan to move forward
Jürgen Schmidt [jogischm...@googlemail.com] kirjoitti: On 3/28/12 10:11 AM, Risto Jääskeläinen wrote: Jürgen Schmidt [jogischm...@googlemail.com] kirjoitti: Hi Andrea, .. Would it help if I provide you a zip file containing the po files that you can use an offline tool? Juergen Yes it seems after all that .zip file of .po files is for me (better than SDF files) but take Your time. If there is some general process which will create zip-files for all languages in near future OR Pootle is usable soon we save valuable time NOT creating just now .zip file for Finnish only (and then sending translations to the issue tracker etc). Regards Risto
Re: Distribution of Windows versions
On Wed, 2012-03-28 at 14:21 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:34 PM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, 2012-03-28 at 13:25 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Fernand Vanrie s...@pmgroup.be wrote: Rob , Interesting, do you have also figures about the differences in OS : Windows versus Linux or Mac etc.. There were some numbers posted on that a few weeks ago. These charts show the MirrorBrain downloads of OpenOffice, from February: http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/marketing_bouncer.html So, 90% Windows, 6% Mac, 3% Linux. But note this is not necessarily the same distribution as the overall user base. Some ports, like BSD and OS/2 are distributed on other web sites, so they are not counted here. And some derivatives of OOo are included in the Linux distros directly, so are not reflected in these numbers. Please, and asking only for myself, if you know of a linux distro using a derivative of Apache OpenOffice do name it - if you mean LibreOffice, please stop calling it a derivative - it is not a valid reflection of the facts, if you are referring to the former package OpenOffice.org then please refer to it by its legal name. I don't think LO makes sense in this context. We're talking about OOo flavors. The relevant version of OO o distributed by distros was Go-OO. Their numbers would not be included in the MirrorBrain stats. Yes quite true - historically Go-OO, Novell OpenOffice.org, SUN StarOffice and Oracle OpenOffice were all available for Windows, none of those packages would be reflected in the mirrorbrain stats. Another derivative was IBM Lotus Symphony, any idea what the OS mix looks like for that package? Best wishes, //drew -Rob -Rob Greetz Fernand There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: [TRANSLATION]: Steps for update or new translation
Hi *, On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:36:11PM +0400, Serg Bormant wrote: Hi 2012/3/28 Claudio Filho filh...@gmail.com: Sorry, Risto. For this step, you need to do: $ wget http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf $ http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/extras/l10n/source/fi/localize.sdf?revision=1229431view=co -o fi.SDF $ wget http://people.apache.org/~jsc/sdf/en-US.sdf $ wget http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/extras/l10n/source/fi/localize.sdf?revision=1229431view=co -O fi.SDF May be it's better to use Apache Subversion to checkout that file: svn co https://svn-master.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/extras/l10n/source/fi Then you can update it, as it get updated by AOO devs.: cd fi svn up Lost wget in second line and -O (upper case o) instead of -o Then you will have the template (en_US) more the old translation (fi) in the same directory, so you can merge in an unique file. $ cat en-US.sdf fi.sdf fi.old.sdf After, convert in PO files. $ oo2po --source-language=en-US -l fi -i fi.old.sdf fi ... and now you get backtrace with ValueError: invalid tab-delimited line: '#\n' This is because of the header comment in the localize.sdf. Copy the file and remove the first 31 lines of the header: cp fi/localize.sdf fi-old.sdf vim fi-old.sdf (remove the comments at the beginning) cat en-US.sdf fi-old.sdf fi-merged.sdf Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina pgpsn4X5IO2bV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Distribution of Windows versions
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Kevin Sisco kevinsisco61...@gmail.comwrote: Okay so all this data really tells us is that more people download on windows 7. Does this really mean we should stop supporting windows 2000 all together? If support means anything, it means that someone has volunteered to test the platform and confirm that we work, and if there are gross errors with installing or running on that platform, then we treat them as release blockers. But if no one volunteers to do that work, then I think we should not say we support Windows 2000. What the 0.14% figure means to me is that I feel less bad if we say that we do not support Windows 2000. -Rob On 3/28/12, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:05 PM, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com wrote: Hi, I am sorry i am new to this dev mailing list. What is the real requirement. In what areas we need people for the next 1 year. What is the exact skill set needed. Let me see if i can help you in anyway. Hi Ram, As you can probably tell, from reading the ooo-dev list posts, we're just finishing up the OpenOffice 3.4 release. So it probably appears chaotic right now, but this is just a sign of the high activity level as we complete the remaining tasks for this release. We have not had a community discussion about the next 1 year, so what follows expresses my personal view only. Areas where we especially need help: - C/C++ programmers to work on the core OpenOffice code on feature development and bug fixing. - There is some interest in developing some test automation based on a Java testing framework that IBM said they would contribute. So someone with skills in QA and Java could help with this. - There is plenty of work to do with manual testing, especially with test case definition. It might make sense to start with defining the test cases and execute them manually at first, but overtime migrate to test automation. - We have had some discussion about making a more intelligent install program, so it can bring down a small core program and then download additional modules, like spell checkers, language packs, etc., when needed, over the internet. I would also return the question and ask, what kind of things do you want to do? The project works best, I think, when people are working on things that they find interesting. Regards, -Rob Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:47:30 +0100, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 March 2012 02:38, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Many great thoughts here. In addition to supporting the open source movement, perhaps we could market participation as a way to learn and develop skills. Maybe a certificate for AOO development professional? Work out the key skills needed to contribute to development and write a set of indicative assessment criteria. Get a mentor to verify the candidate's evidence that they can meet the criteria. If there was interest in it we have the facilities to support it including secure on-line testing facilities and a Drupal system for managing coursework evidence which we would do as a free contribution to the project. We'd just need help defining the criteria from the most experienced developers. As a newbie, it appears that much our message is around what we need - which is essential to understand, however we may want to focus on why someone may want to join and help them realize their goals. For example, if someone is looking to demonstrate their skills and develop portfolio work products, then AOO offers a sandbox of opportunity. And a potential certification of skills. Some thoughts. Regards, Kevin On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On 2012-03-19, at 08:41 , Rob Weir wrote: Any ideas and the best ways how we can improve in this area after AOO 3.4 releases? Lots, and these would complement the rather good ideas already proposed. What we did at OOo actually worked--to attract developers and contributors of all sorts. What worked against us I do not think I need spell out, but the cussedness of the code was not really the determining factor. What really would help, besides giving would-bes a clean entry, is to have mentors, more or less do-able tasks that are identified as such. (We tried getting to this many times, and I strongly urged my erstwhile colleagues in this area for, uhm, years. Finally happened, and we got our to-dos but still not clearly identified according to level of difficulty. I can conceive of several here whose work would assist in the identification of tasks newbies could approach--and even post-newbies-and perhaps even in mentoring.) Also, what helps tremendously is what we are doing already: presenting a community that is open, friendly, and generally has a good attitude about what it is doing and where it is going. There are millions using OOo as their primary ODF implementation, and those mostly include those who have come to it via the national or sub-national government agency. I think it's about time that they are looking to AOO for the next step. I think the idea of a new contributor mentor is essential. This is true for coders, but also website, translation, documentation, test, UI, etc. What we have today is very much a swim or sink and drink from the fire hose approach. If someone is highly motivated, highly skilled and persistent,
Regional AOO sites [was: Re: openoffice.fm]
Hi 2012/3/14 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org: 2) Domain name openoffice.fm Both are likely confusing to the consumer and falsely imply the identity and source of their goods. BTW, I created a place in Bugzilla to track things like this: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/enter_bug.cgi?product=trademark Rob, a NL related question: if someone of us bring up a website for regional/local group, in native language, how do you will see this act? A example was here, in Brazil. At begin, the openoffice.org.br was with us, and we created a portal with Drupal, talking in brazilian portuguese all news about ODF/OOo in our country and the world (with the respective translation, when was the case). At final, in function of the trademark problems with openoffice, we changed to broffice, but always clearly linked with main project. Can we follow this strategy? A CMS can give us a more flexibility to work. Is possible? What you (and Apache) think about? best, Claudio
RE: Distribution of Windows versions
To calibrate this a little better, what are 1. the absolute number that 100% is, and 2. the range of calendar dates over which these statistics were derived? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:10 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Distribution of Windows versions On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Kevin Sisco kevinsisco61...@gmail.comwrote: Okay so all this data really tells us is that more people download on windows 7. Does this really mean we should stop supporting windows 2000 all together? If support means anything, it means that someone has volunteered to test the platform and confirm that we work, and if there are gross errors with installing or running on that platform, then we treat them as release blockers. But if no one volunteers to do that work, then I think we should not say we support Windows 2000. What the 0.14% figure means to me is that I feel less bad if we say that we do not support Windows 2000. -Rob On 3/28/12, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: Distribution of Windows versions
On Wednesday, 28. March 2012 at 22:03, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: To calibrate this a little better, what are 1. the absolute number that 100% is, and 2. the range of calendar dates over which these statistics were derived? It doesn't really matter if we can't answer the question: Is anybody interested to fix Win 2000 bugs? If nobody is interested to develop actively on this platform it is useless to test it or spent any time on this platform. we have much more important things to do... Just my 2 cents Juergen - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:10 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Distribution of Windows versions On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Kevin Sisco kevinsisco61...@gmail.comwrote: Okay so all this data really tells us is that more people download on windows 7. Does this really mean we should stop supporting windows 2000 all together? If support means anything, it means that someone has volunteered to test the platform and confirm that we work, and if there are gross errors with installing or running on that platform, then we treat them as release blockers. But if no one volunteers to do that work, then I think we should not say we support Windows 2000. What the 0.14% figure means to me is that I feel less bad if we say that we do not support Windows 2000. -Rob On 3/28/12, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: There was a question in an earlier thread on whether we should still support Windows 2000. It was an open question whether we had many users on that platform. Here are the numbers we have, based on downloads. Note that we can only figure out what platform a user was on when they downloaded OpenOffice. It is entirely possible for someone to download from a Windows 7 machine and then install it onto a Windows 2000 machine. We have no easy way to measure that. However, that should be small compared to the number of users who download onto the same machine they will be installing onto. Win7 57.32% XP 31.37% Vista 10.07% NT 0.76% 2003 Server 0.32% 2000 0.14% 98 0.02% CE 0.00%
Re: [RELEASE]: status update where we are and plan to move forward
Am 03/28/2012 08:49 AM, schrieb Jürgen Schmidt: Hi Andrea, On 3/28/12 12:43 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Jürgen Schmidt wrote: A RC with en-US only is not really what our community is expecting. Exactly. UI We will include all languages where we have a 100% complete translation for the UI (excepting the translation for the test automation tool like for ru) HELP For help I would not really rely on a 100% translation and would accept 95%. These figures seem very high, we usually required 80% (both UI and Help), see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages thanks for this feedback, I wasn't aware of this numbers and it seems that my own expectations are higher than what we had before. I am open for that and we can reduce the numbers but doesn't it make sense to have 100% for UI and a lower number like the 80-85% for help. Help is not so important from my point view (who never used help and preferred google) but I think the UI should be complete. I am eager to learn from others and their experience and we should define together some boundaries for the future. Let me allow to take a look into the past. ;-) OOo 3.3 Full install sets: This was done with 100 % for UI and Help with 100 - 0 % (e.g., we had never a translated Help in Arabic, however we have made a release for this language). There were also some exceptions with lower translation ratio because: the NL community was very eager with their L10N work and wanted to have a release somehow, the NL community had very good ratio in the past and exceptionally not this time, etc.). Langpacks: This was very less restrictive. Langpacks were done even with 0 % Help. The main focus was for the UI with a limit at ~80 %. General: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Release_criteria#Localization_requirements Finally, I recommend to *orientate* on these requirements: 100 - ~95 % UI and Help ratio for full install builds. 100 - ~80 % UI ratio for langpack builds. This is what our users know from past releases (at least from the Wiki or other posts) and would expect for the next release. Of course we can change the requirements. But only after more detailed discussions and a published outcome (e.g., in the Wiki, blog post). OOo 3.4 Beta Full install sets: Builds were done only for en-US. Langpacks: The ratios for the Beta release was a bit worse as IMHO the localization phase was not finished before the big stop. So, Sun/Oracle has shown a bit more flexibility and has released them anyhow. And, now that https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118895 is fixed (thanks!) the Italian version, even if at 95%-99%, would definitely be ready to ship. We will reach 100% anyway (Paolo knows more but there are more than a dozen vounteers so it won't be a problem for us), but I'm speaking in general: excluding a language at 95%-99% wouldn't make sense. +1 If there are concerns about problems in the translation process/data, then I'd prefer to distribute only builds for which we can identify a volunteer who takes care of testing that the translation is OK in the common use cases. Exactly that is what I have in mind we will only ship languages where volunteers have shown up so far. Juergen +1 Marcus
Re: [RELEASE]: status update where we are and plan to move forward
Am 03/27/2012 10:46 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk: On 03/27/2012 11:39 AM, � wrote: Hi, I would like to inform you where we are from my perspective and how I think we can/should move forward. 2 show stopper issues are open now which should be fixed later this week. We make good progress to clean up the RAT output (http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/rat-output.html), we are supporting Andrew where we can. Work on our NOTICE and LICENSE file is also ongoing and we make good progress to integrate early feedback before our first RC. Translation I am still not happy with the current situation around translations. I know that it is not the problem of our translation volunteers (I am happy to see the progress and interest) and that you all do your best. I think it was a mistake to underestimate the Pootle issue and the relating work... But we can't change it at the moment. A RC with en-US only is not really what our community is expecting. I would like to propose the following. UI We will include all languages where we have a 100% complete translation for the UI (excepting the translation for the test automation tool like for ru) All other languages will we release a little bit later when more translations are ready HELP For help I would not really rely on a 100% translation and would accept 95%. And here the same we will release further languages based on availability. That means we will start with a subset of languages first and will release more languages with a 3.4.1 that we can address quite fast. I still believe that a fast release is important for the public reputation of our project and I don't see a problem with releasing more languages later. I would like to start building a RC candidate next week with the languages that we have in place on Monday next week (April 2th). Any opinions? Juergen Juergen-- I support your analysis and this plan. Some questions: * What is the proposed timeframe for the RC(s)? I know logistically there was a some discussion about SourceForge's role in the download. The timeline that was discussed led me to believe we were at least a week or so out -- something about mid-April was mentioned. Do think this is still accurate? * Right now the Release Candidate area of the web site's download page... http://www.openoffice.org/download/all_rc.html is directed *back* to the main download page. Yes, I've changed it this way in order to concentrate the user's attention currently for OOo 3.3 only. And not for still remaining OOo 3.3 RC's or OOo 3.4 Beta. Those of us doing web maintenance for the download areas will need some assistance is determining the needed information (platforms, languages, etc.) that are detailed in http://www.openoffice.org/download/globalvars.js I can help with this. so we can reconstruct the all_rc.html Of course I still have the previous webpage. So, it can be re-used for newer releases. ;-) If you already have this info, please feel free to update this page, or send info so someone else can do it. A finally defined set of supported platforms and languages would help, indeed. Marcus
Re: Regional AOO sites [was: Re: openoffice.fm]
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Claudio Filho filh...@gmail.com wrote: Hi 2012/3/14 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org: 2) Domain name openoffice.fm Both are likely confusing to the consumer and falsely imply the identity and source of their goods. BTW, I created a place in Bugzilla to track things like this: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/enter_bug.cgi?product=trademark Rob, a NL related question: if someone of us bring up a website for regional/local group, in native language, how do you will see this act? We have the ability to host such sites here at Apache, as subdomains of the openoffice.org domain. For example, http://de.openoffice.org is for German. It then redirects to http://www.openoffice.org/de/ which is a subdirectory of our web site's content tree. If a website is done that way, then project committers have direct access to checking in changes, via the CMS or Subversion. Other contributors can submit patches. A example was here, in Brazil. At begin, the openoffice.org.br was with us, and we created a portal with Drupal, talking in brazilian portuguese all news about ODF/OOo in our country and the world (with the respective translation, when was the case). At final, in function of the trademark problems with openoffice, we changed to broffice, but always clearly linked with main project. Can we follow this strategy? Which strategy? Calling something BrOffice? A CMS can give us a more flexibility to work. Is possible? What you (and Apache) think about? For a website hosted at Apache, as part of the openoffice.org website, the CMS is available by default. It is also certainly possible to have your own website, external to Apache, and run by local volunteers. But it would be important to choose a domain name that did not imply that it was an official OpenOffice website. The simplest thing, I think, would be to host your website at Apache, something like http://br.openoffice.org. Would that work? -Rob best, Claudio
Re: Get more information about OPenOffice.org link redirect to English page for all language instead of right native lang page
The problem is still here under AOO340m1 (Build:9589) Rev. 1303653 22 march 2012 for Get more information about OpenOffice.org doesn't lead to Native Language internet page the link is shown now http://www.openoffice.org/?lang=ru but it's doesn't redirect to http://www.openoffice.org/ru/ The same error there is e.g for the next langpack: French, German, Italian etc. On Saturday 17 of March 2012 03:19:01 Torokhov Sergey wrote: I have just download binary AOO340m1(Build:9588) - Rev. 12995771 2012-03-12 09.59.35 (MOn, 12 Mar 2012) OOo_3.4.0_Linux_x86-64_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz OOo_3.4.0_Linux_x86-64_langpack-deb_ru.tar.gz After unpacking I start AOO and changed in options User Interface language to Russian (my native) and restart ./soffice: Then I run ./soffice again and see a Welcome Screen at bottom of it are placed : - Get more templates for OpenOffice.org - Add a new features to OpenOffice.org - Get more information about OpenOffice.org When I click fisrt one my browser redirected me to http://templates.services.openoffice.org/?lang=en-US (note the ?lang=en-US) but the Russian language was determined correct in the upper right conner language menu, so there is no problem and page is displayed in russian language. The second contains only English, German and French, so loading Eng page is normal for that situation. But clicking the third one (Get more information about OpenOffice.org) redirect to http://www.openoffice.org/?lang=en-US instead of http://www.openoffice.org/ru/ that is listed on http://www.openoffice.org/projects/native-lang.html page Substitution for ?lang=ru in the http://www.openoffice.org/?lang=en-US doesn't lead to positive result and doesn't redirect to native lang. page Maybe such behaviour takes place for other language too as all Native-lang pages links on http://www.openoffice.org/projects/native-lang.html look like http://www.openoffice.org/ru/, http://www.openoffice.org/de/, http://www.openoffice.org/fr/ instead of http://www.openoffice.org/?lang=ru http://www.openoffice.org/?lang=de or http://www.openoffice.org/?lang=fr
Anyone know of any good OpenOffice.org 3.3 reviews?
I noticed that this page is prominent on the website, two clicks away from the home page: http://www.openoffice.org/product/reviews.html But it doesn't seem to have been updated since OpenOffice 3.2. Of course,we can put 3.4 reviews there once we have them. But it would be great to have some quotes about OOo 3.3 there as well, for completeness. If you know of any good reviews, please post a link. Thanks, -Rob
Re: Info about the update protocol
Look I'm pretty serious about the situation as it stands. If someone can just give me a little pointer to where the update client is implemented in the svn tree that would be great. There is work to do here to integrate the update service into Apache's mirror infrastructure, and the division of labor between what the project can do and what infra needs to do isn't clear at all right now. It'd sure be nice to have a solution implemented prior to AOO 3.4's release, which I'm trying to accommodate but my time is limited. From: Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 10:33 AM Subject: Info about the update protocol Looking at the most recent experiment with updates.services.apache.org does not inspire my confidence that this service was well-thought-out because it shouldn't be possible for j random user to configure it to poll continuously for updates. I can only hope that future variants of the service were better designed from a network utility standpoint. In any case is there any reason to suspect that throwing this traffic at a protocol-compliant script will be able to tell clients to back off? Where is the update protocol documented in case infra needs to write a more scalable implementation of it as an Apache C module? Any tips, especially a willingness by volunteers to resolve outstanding scaling issues, will be appreciated by both infra and your users of the service. TIA
Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
Hi Rob, Well, the large talent pool is available here in India with millions of students graduating in Engineering,MCA(Master of computer applications). They all look for a project for their final semester. We can somehow try to attract them but they also try to see what is the benefit for them. Most of these guys they learn C/Java as part of their syllabus.But we need to retrain them as they generally just try to pass and not to be master of it. So we need to train them and make them useful. I have not seen the code base yet but based on the search results what i have understood is that it is implemented in Java, OOBasic, Cpp, Python, XSL, ooRexx From Freshers point of view they prefer the new languages like Java(ofcourse it is a old one but still new when compared to C/C++) or advanced stuff like Android. But still we can train people in C++ but it is easy to attract people for Java. If we know the exact requirement of people then we can try to gather the people and train them and make them good to contribute to the project. We have a software training institute and staff are from top MNC's.Lot of students approach us for Live Projects to gain some real experience. So we may try to accept the people and train them. We charge the students for training as we have to pay the trainers. Ultimately what students expect is an experience letter from Apache so that they can utilise it for future employment. In addition to issuing the certificate we should have their contribution mentioned in our website otherwise other job seekers will fake the cetificates. I think if the company(Apache) is ready to issue a certificate mentioning their contribution towards the project and list their contribution in AOO website then it should definetly work. Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:11:59 -0400, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:05 PM, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com wrote: Hi, I am sorry i am new to this dev mailing list. What is the real requirement. In what areas we need people for the next 1 year. What is the exact skill set needed. Let me see if i can computerof help you in anyway. i Hi Ram, As you can probably tell, from reading the ooo-dev list posts, we're just finishing up the OpenOffice 3.4 release. So it probably appears chaotic right now, but this is just a sign of the high activity level as we complete the remaining tasks for this release. We have not had a community discussion about the next 1 year, so what follows expresses my personal view only. Areas where we especially need help: - C/C++ programmers to work on the core OpenOffice code on feature development and bug fixing. - There is some interest in developing some test automation based on a Java testing framework that IBM said they would contribute. So someone with skills in QA and Java could help with this. - There is plenty of work to do with manual testing, especially with test case definition. It might make sense to start with defining the test cases and execute them manually at first, but overtime migrate to test automation. - We have had some discussion about making a more intelligent install program, so it can bring down a small core program and then download additional modules, like spell checkers, language packs, etc., when needed, over the internet. I would also return the question and ask, what kind of things do you want to do? The project works best, I think, when people are working on things that they find interesting. Regards, -Rob Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:47:30 +0100, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 March 2012 02:38, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Many great thoughts here. In addition to supporting the open source movement, perhaps we could market participation as a way to learn and develop skills. Maybe a certificate for AOO development professional? Work out the key skills needed to contribute to development and write a set of indicative assessment criteria. Get a mentor to verify the candidate's evidence that they can meet the criteria. If there was interest in it we have the facilities to support it including secure on-line testing facilities and a Drupal system for managing coursework evidence which we would do as a free contribution to the project. We'd just need help defining the criteria from the most experienced developers. As a newbie, it appears that much our message is around what we need - which is essential to understand, however we may want to focus on why someone may want to join and help them realize their goals. For example, if someone is looking to demonstrate their skills and develop portfolio work products, then AOO offers a sandbox of opportunity. And a potential certification of skills. Some thoughts. Regards, Kevin On
Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
Hi Ram; We are strictly non-profit here so I am not sure how far we could go with such certifications. I think it's a delicate matter and sooner or later someone would likely complain about students being exploited or your company making money in exchange of ASF certificates. We certainly can have a Wiki page for students to register their projects and ideas and if their projects are really good we would almost certainly invite them to become Apache committers but that as far as we can go (I think). cheers, Pedro. --- Mer 28/3/12, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com ha scritto: Hi Rob, Well, the large talent pool is available here in India with millions of students graduating in Engineering,MCA(Master of computer applications). They all look for a project for their final semester. We can somehow try to attract them but they also try to see what is the benefit for them. Most of these guys they learn C/Java as part of their syllabus.But we need to retrain them as they generally just try to pass and not to be master of it. So we need to train them and make them useful. I have not seen the code base yet but based on the search results what i have understood is that it is implemented in Java, OOBasic, Cpp, Python, XSL, ooRexx From Freshers point of view they prefer the new languages like Java(ofcourse it is a old one but still new when compared to C/C++) or advanced stuff like Android. But still we can train people in C++ but it is easy to attract people for Java. If we know the exact requirement of people then we can try to gather the people and train them and make them good to contribute to the project. We have a software training institute and staff are from top MNC's.Lot of students approach us for Live Projects to gain some real experience. So we may try to accept the people and train them. We charge the students for training as we have to pay the trainers. Ultimately what students expect is an experience letter from Apache so that they can utilise it for future employment. In addition to issuing the certificate we should have their contribution mentioned in our website otherwise other job seekers will fake the cetificates. I think if the company(Apache) is ready to issue a certificate mentioning their contribution towards the project and list their contribution in AOO website then it should definetly work. Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems
Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
Given the risk in a formal certification program, we could look to support contributors intrinsic motivation by reducing barriers to entry and supporting a positive on-boarding experience. On Mar 29, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Pedro Giffuni p...@apache.org wrote: Hi Ram; We are strictly non-profit here so I am not sure how far we could go with such certifications. I think it's a delicate matter and sooner or later someone would likely complain about students being exploited or your company making money in exchange of ASF certificates. We certainly can have a Wiki page for students to register their projects and ideas and if their projects are really good we would almost certainly invite them to become Apache committers but that as far as we can go (I think). cheers, Pedro. --- Mer 28/3/12, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com ha scritto: Hi Rob, Well, the large talent pool is available here in India with millions of students graduating in Engineering,MCA(Master of computer applications). They all look for a project for their final semester. We can somehow try to attract them but they also try to see what is the benefit for them. Most of these guys they learn C/Java as part of their syllabus.But we need to retrain them as they generally just try to pass and not to be master of it. So we need to train them and make them useful. I have not seen the code base yet but based on the search results what i have understood is that it is implemented in Java, OOBasic, Cpp, Python, XSL, ooRexx From Freshers point of view they prefer the new languages like Java(ofcourse it is a old one but still new when compared to C/C++) or advanced stuff like Android. But still we can train people in C++ but it is easy to attract people for Java. If we know the exact requirement of people then we can try to gather the people and train them and make them good to contribute to the project. We have a software training institute and staff are from top MNC's.Lot of students approach us for Live Projects to gain some real experience. So we may try to accept the people and train them. We charge the students for training as we have to pay the trainers. Ultimately what students expect is an experience letter from Apache so that they can utilise it for future employment. In addition to issuing the certificate we should have their contribution mentioned in our website otherwise other job seekers will fake the cetificates. I think if the company(Apache) is ready to issue a certificate mentioning their contribution towards the project and list their contribution in AOO website then it should definetly work. Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems
Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
Great points in this thread Question: Does OO community have a history if working with academic or professional groups to recruit volunteers? Developers, designers and beyond. What is the protocol to recruit? Thoughts? Kevin On Mar 29, 2012, at 12:23 PM, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com wrote: Hi Rob, Well, the large talent pool is available here in India with millions of students graduating in Engineering,MCA(Master of computer applications). They all look for a project for their final semester. We can somehow try to attract them but they also try to see what is the benefit for them. Most of these guys they learn C/Java as part of their syllabus.But we need to retrain them as they generally just try to pass and not to be master of it. So we need to train them and make them useful. I have not seen the code base yet but based on the search results what i have understood is that it is implemented in Java, OOBasic, Cpp, Python, XSL, ooRexx From Freshers point of view they prefer the new languages like Java(ofcourse it is a old one but still new when compared to C/C++) or advanced stuff like Android. But still we can train people in C++ but it is easy to attract people for Java. If we know the exact requirement of people then we can try to gather the people and train them and make them good to contribute to the project. We have a software training institute and staff are from top MNC's.Lot of students approach us for Live Projects to gain some real experience. So we may try to accept the people and train them. We charge the students for training as we have to pay the trainers. Ultimately what students expect is an experience letter from Apache so that they can utilise it for future employment. In addition to issuing the certificate we should have their contribution mentioned in our website otherwise other job seekers will fake the cetificates. I think if the company(Apache) is ready to issue a certificate mentioning their contribution towards the project and list their contribution in AOO website then it should definetly work. Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:11:59 -0400, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:05 PM, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com wrote: Hi, I am sorry i am new to this dev mailing list. What is the real requirement. In what areas we need people for the next 1 year. What is the exact skill set needed. Let me see if i can computerof help you in anyway. i Hi Ram, As you can probably tell, from reading the ooo-dev list posts, we're just finishing up the OpenOffice 3.4 release. So it probably appears chaotic right now, but this is just a sign of the high activity level as we complete the remaining tasks for this release. We have not had a community discussion about the next 1 year, so what follows expresses my personal view only. Areas where we especially need help: - C/C++ programmers to work on the core OpenOffice code on feature development and bug fixing. - There is some interest in developing some test automation based on a Java testing framework that IBM said they would contribute. So someone with skills in QA and Java could help with this. - There is plenty of work to do with manual testing, especially with test case definition. It might make sense to start with defining the test cases and execute them manually at first, but overtime migrate to test automation. - We have had some discussion about making a more intelligent install program, so it can bring down a small core program and then download additional modules, like spell checkers, language packs, etc., when needed, over the internet. I would also return the question and ask, what kind of things do you want to do? The project works best, I think, when people are working on things that they find interesting. Regards, -Rob Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:47:30 +0100, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 March 2012 02:38, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Many great thoughts here. In addition to supporting the open source movement, perhaps we could market participation as a way to learn and develop skills. Maybe a certificate for AOO development professional? Work out the key skills needed to contribute to development and write a set of indicative assessment criteria. Get a mentor to verify the candidate's evidence that they can meet the criteria. If there was interest in it we have the facilities to support it including secure on-line testing facilities and a Drupal system for managing coursework evidence which we would do as a free contribution to the project. We'd just need help defining the criteria from the most experienced developers. As a newbie, it appears that much our message is around what we need - which is essential to understand, however
Fwd: Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
Hi Pedro Giffuni, You are absolutely right, i could not think the other side it(exploiting making money inexchange of certificates). The certificates are issyed by Apache and issued only when there is a contribution. The second point is that most of the students generally do not have any ideas on projects. When a person is seriously working on the project, i am not sure how much time he/she can spend guiding/mentoring the students/freshers. With out any benefit to the student/fresher i am not sure how many people will be willing to contribute because they should be able to show the contribution as experience in their resumes. Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems. On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:37:56 -0700 (PDT), Pedro Giffuni p...@apache.org wrote: Hi Ram; We are strictly non-profit here so I am not sure how far we could go with such certifications. I think it's a delicate matter and sooner or later someone would likely complain about students being exploited or your company making money in exchange of ASF certificates. We certainly can have a Wiki page for students to register their projects and ideas and if their projects are really good we would almost certainly invite them to become Apache committers but that as far as we can go (I think). cheers, Pedro. --- Mer 28/3/12, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com ha scritto: Hi Rob, Well, the large talent pool is available here in India with millions of students graduating in Engineering,MCA(Master of computer applications). They all look for a project for their final semester. We can somehow try to attract them but they also try to see what is the benefit for them. Most of these guys they learn C/Java as part of their syllabus.But we need to retrain them as they generally just try to pass and not to be master of it. So we need to train them and make them useful. I have not seen the code base yet but based on the search results what i have understood is that it is implemented in Java, OOBasic, Cpp, Python, XSL, ooRexx From Freshers point of view they prefer the new languages like Java(ofcourse it is a old one but still new when compared to C/C++) or advanced stuff like Android. But still we can train people in C++ but it is easy to attract people for Java. If we know the exact requirement of people then we can try to gather the people and train them and make them good to contribute to the project. We have a software training institute and staff are from top MNC's.Lot of students approach us for Live Projects to gain some real experience. So we may try to accept the people and train them. We charge the students for training as we have to pay the trainers. Ultimately what students expect is an experience letter from Apache so that they can utilise it for future employment. In addition to issuing the certificate we should have their contribution mentioned in our website otherwise other job seekers will fake the cetificates. I think if the company(Apache) is ready to issue a certificate mentioning their contribution towards the project and list their contribution in AOO website then it should definetly work. Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems
Re: logo usage
On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 12:45 +0800, Kevin Grignon wrote: This fella offers training and support for a variety of tools including OO. He is requesting to use our logo on his site. Mentor, what is the protocol for such requests? Hi Mickael, Kevin I would suggest first that you look over the trademark policies starting here perhaps: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/ From the sounds of it I'd say this particular use case would fall in the same category as using a logo on a book cover. Though that is only my opinion. At this moment the Apache OpenOffice project does not have separate official and community logos. The idea has been discussed, but not quite finalized. It would also be best to direct future inquiry to the ooo-dev mailing list and not the user mailing list. (forwarding this message and including the OP address in cc to same) @Mickael - wanted to let you know that this list and the ooo-dev are predominantly English language, there are French specific lists on the way, I don't believe that has happened just yet however. Otherwise, it's very good that you are interested in offering AOO training, there have been other requests to use the AOO logo and all have worked out rather easily - I'm sure this will be no different. Best wishes, //drew On Mar 29, 2012, at 5:37 AM, mickael.po...@sfr.fr mickael.po...@sfr.fr wrote: Bonjour, je souhaite créer une auto-entreprise de depannage informatique et de formation de l'outil informatique pour particupiers. Pour cette auto-entreprise je souhaite créer un logo dans lequel figureront plusieurs logos de logiciels, bureautique, internet Pour dire aux personnes à qui ce logo s'adressera que je pourrai les former à ces logiciels. M'autorisez vous à utiliser les logos d'OPEN OFFICE ce qui me permeterai d'éviter d'avoir un logo explicite tout en vous faisant un peu de publicité d'autant que j'apprécie énormément vos produits. Merci d'avance de l'attention que vous porterez à ma requête. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: ooo-users-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: ooo-users-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
Hi; --- Gio 29/3/12, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com ha scritto: ... Hi Pedro Giffuni, You are absolutely right, i could not think the other side it(exploiting making money inexchange of certificates). The certificates are issyed by Apache and issued only when there is a contribution. The second point is that most of the students generally do not have any ideas on projects. When a person is seriously working on the project, i am not sure how much time he/she can spend guiding/mentoring the students/freshers. With out any benefit to the student/fresher i am not sure how many people will be willing to contribute because they should be able to show the contribution as experience in their resumes. Yes.. I know you intend well but ... you know how people are sometimes ... surely sooner or later someone will have envy and will find a way to make it look morally unacceptable. I am not closing any door just wanted to make clear that this issues are normally delicate. cheers, Pedro.
Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 12:54 +0800, Kevin Grignon wrote: Great points in this thread Question: Does OO community have a history if working with academic or professional groups to recruit volunteers? Developers, designers and beyond. Hola Kevin, hmm - perhaps review the information at: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project It only covers a subset of your question, but an important one for this discussion IMO. //drew What is the protocol to recruit? Thoughts? Kevin On Mar 29, 2012, at 12:23 PM, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com wrote: Hi Rob, Well, the large talent pool is available here in India with millions of students graduating in Engineering,MCA(Master of computer applications). They all look for a project for their final semester. We can somehow try to attract them but they also try to see what is the benefit for them. Most of these guys they learn C/Java as part of their syllabus.But we need to retrain them as they generally just try to pass and not to be master of it. So we need to train them and make them useful. I have not seen the code base yet but based on the search results what i have understood is that it is implemented in Java, OOBasic, Cpp, Python, XSL, ooRexx From Freshers point of view they prefer the new languages like Java(ofcourse it is a old one but still new when compared to C/C++) or advanced stuff like Android. But still we can train people in C++ but it is easy to attract people for Java. If we know the exact requirement of people then we can try to gather the people and train them and make them good to contribute to the project. We have a software training institute and staff are from top MNC's.Lot of students approach us for Live Projects to gain some real experience. So we may try to accept the people and train them. We charge the students for training as we have to pay the trainers. Ultimately what students expect is an experience letter from Apache so that they can utilise it for future employment. In addition to issuing the certificate we should have their contribution mentioned in our website otherwise other job seekers will fake the cetificates. I think if the company(Apache) is ready to issue a certificate mentioning their contribution towards the project and list their contribution in AOO website then it should definetly work. Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:11:59 -0400, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:05 PM, q...@imsoftwaresystems.com wrote: Hi, I am sorry i am new to this dev mailing list. What is the real requirement. In what areas we need people for the next 1 year. What is the exact skill set needed. Let me see if i can computerof help you in anyway. i Hi Ram, As you can probably tell, from reading the ooo-dev list posts, we're just finishing up the OpenOffice 3.4 release. So it probably appears chaotic right now, but this is just a sign of the high activity level as we complete the remaining tasks for this release. We have not had a community discussion about the next 1 year, so what follows expresses my personal view only. Areas where we especially need help: - C/C++ programmers to work on the core OpenOffice code on feature development and bug fixing. - There is some interest in developing some test automation based on a Java testing framework that IBM said they would contribute. So someone with skills in QA and Java could help with this. - There is plenty of work to do with manual testing, especially with test case definition. It might make sense to start with defining the test cases and execute them manually at first, but overtime migrate to test automation. - We have had some discussion about making a more intelligent install program, so it can bring down a small core program and then download additional modules, like spell checkers, language packs, etc., when needed, over the internet. I would also return the question and ask, what kind of things do you want to do? The project works best, I think, when people are working on things that they find interesting. Regards, -Rob Thanks Regards, Ram, Im Software Systems On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:47:30 +0100, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 March 2012 02:38, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Many great thoughts here. In addition to supporting the open source movement, perhaps we could market participation as a way to learn and develop skills. Maybe a certificate for AOO development professional? Work out the key skills needed to contribute to development and write a set of indicative assessment criteria. Get a mentor to verify the candidate's evidence that they can meet the criteria. If there was interest
